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"True again, except that we have to build giant structures with radiation shielding and artificial gravity, no easy feat."

Yes, but with automation to help we could do that. If we can learn to live in zero gravity, other possibilities open up like Marshall Savage talked about in the Millennial Project with Asgard habitats that were basically bubbles with a two meter thick layer of water at the surface between two layers of transparent plastic.
http://tmp2.wikia.com/wiki/Asgard
http://oceania.org/images/plate6.jpg
http://oceania.org/images/plate7.jpg

There are at least four ways I know of in theory to support good bone health in space (even assuming astronauts in space were not just vitamin D deficient since the RDA was ten times too low). People can wear clothes designed to provide resistance. People can live in a liquid environment that provides resistance (possibly breathing an oxygen enriched liquid) -- since whales do OK in effectively zero G. People could take (hypothetical) medicines to prevent bone loss. People could have their DNA altered.
http://www.oscomak.net/wiki/Liquid_breathing_to_resist_bone_loss

Obviously, more research is needed for all of them. The big thing is that it is not clear if mammals always need gravity for babies to develop in a healthy way. Example: http://www.welcometospaceblog.com/2011/09/babies-in-space.html

I would agree we should solve our problems on Earth first, rather than export a tragic way of thinking. Related ideas (the last two by me):
http://www.anwot.org/
http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html
http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/oscomak/

We seem to know answers to the social problems (stuff like a basic income, unschooling and life-long learning, advanced conflict resolution techniques, and so on). The problem seems more putting them into practice against entrenched interests ranging from short-sighted billionaires (of the 1%) with a narrow sense of self, to public school unions, to those who profit from war, to the rest of us (99%) and social inertia with fear of change even as our technosphere is quickly changing. I think we could easily do much better socially than this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Inside

As for scams and Rossi's Cold Fusion E-Cat device, I agree it is very suspicious -- it's just at the edge of plausibility, and he could easily dispel any doubt with some better testing. But in general, whether that pans out (we'll know soon), we have lots of energy alternatives, being developed including thorium power, hot fusion, solar PV, solar thermal, and more.
http://www.caelusgreenroom.com/2011/05/26/torresol-opens-world%E2%80%99s-first-molten-salt-c-s-p-plant-ecoseed/

I was a Senior Associate with the Space Studies Institute in the late 1980s (just meant I gave them money). I thought the space power idea was interesting then and it might have made sense then -- even though I suggested to Gerry O'Neill (I took a class with him) that we should build self-replicating space habitats instead -- he called *me* a dreamer. :-) He saw that we would have a slow industrial expansion into space driven by capitalism (which I now think is baloney because we will be moving beyond money soon enough with 3D printers and robotics and s

"True again, except that we have to build giant structures with radiation shielding and artificial gravity, no easy feat."

Yes, but with automation to help we could do that. If we can learn to live in zero gravity, other possibilities open up like Marshall Savage talked about in the Millennial Project with Asgard habitats that were basically bubbles with a two meter thick layer of water at the surface between two layers of transparent plastic.
http://tmp2.wikia.com/wiki/Asgard
http://oceania.org/images/plate6.jpg
http://oceania.org/images/plate7.jpg

There are at least four ways I know of in theory to support good bone health in space (even assuming astronauts in space were not just vitamin D deficient since the RDA was ten times too low). People can wear clothes designed to provide resistance. People can live in a liquid environment that provides resistance (possibly breathing an oxygen enriched liquid) -- since whales do OK in effectively zero G. People could take (hypothetical) medicines to prevent bone loss. People could have their DNA altered.
http://www.oscomak.net/wiki/Liquid_breathing_to_resist_bone_loss

Obviously, more research is needed for all of them. The big thing is that it is not clear if mammals always need gravity for babies to develop in a healthy way. Example: http://www.welcometospaceblog.com/2011/09/babies-in-space.html

I would agree we should solve our problems on Earth first, rather than export a tragic way of thinking. Related ideas (the last two by me):
http://www.anwot.org/
http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html
http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/oscomak/

We seem to know answers to the social problems (stuff like a basic income, unschooling and life-long learning, advanced conflict resolution techniques, and so on). The problem seems more putting them into practice against entrenched interests ranging from short-sighted billionaires (of the 1%) with a narrow sense of self, to public school unions, to those who profit from war, to the rest of us (99%) and social inertia with fear of change even as our technosphere is quickly changing. I think we could easily do much better socially than this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Inside

As for scams and Rossi's Cold Fusion E-Cat device, I agree it is very suspicious -- it's just at the edge of plausibility, and he could easily dispel any doubt with some better testing. But in general, whether that pans out (we'll know soon), we have lots of energy alternatives, being developed including thorium power, hot fusion, solar PV, solar thermal, and more.
http://www.caelusgreenroom.com/2011/05/26/torresol-opens-world%E2%80%99s-first-molten-salt-c-s-p-plant-ecoseed/

I was a Senior Associate with the Space Studies Institute in the late 1980s (just meant I gave them money). I thought the space power idea was interesting then and it might have made sense then -- even though I suggested to Gerry O'Neill (I took a class with him) that we should build self-replicating space habitats instead -- he called *me* a dreamer. :-) He saw that we would have a slow industrial expansion into space driven by capitalism (which I now think is baloney because we will be moving beyond money soon enough with 3D printers and robotics and s

Seems akin to the Atlantis Project, which hoped to build the city of Oceania from floating concrete-and-air hexagonal platforms. Sounded promising, but alas no artificial islands have come of it yet.

• The Artemis Project - The project is a private venture to establish a permanent, self-supporting community on the Moon. Brief overview of the Artemis project.
• The Mars Society - To further the goal of the exploration and settlement of the Red Planet.
• The Moon Society - An international nonprofit educational and scientific foundation formed to further the creation of communities on the Moon involving large-scale industrialization and private enterprise.
• National Space Society - grassroots organization dedicated to the creation of a spacefaring civilization. Magazine.
• Stanford on the Moon (by 2015?) And yes, Stanford as in the university.
• Space Frontier Foundation - seems to have projects for space colonization, missions to the Earth's moon, and so on. Looks like a large scale organization.
• The Space Settlement Initiative
• Space Access Society - activism for getting out of the NASA-only paradigm/reality.
• Students for the Exploration and Development of Space - `... is dedicated to expanding the role of human exploration and development of space. We also seek to educate the public in such a way as to attain this goal. `
• Space Studies Institute - `SSI's stated mission is: Opening the energy and material resources of space for human benefit by completing the missing technological links to make possible the productive use of the abundant resources in space.`
• International Space University - `The International Space University provides graduate-level training to the future leaders of the emerging global space community at its Central Campus in Strasbourg, France, and at locations around the world. ` (mentions 'systems engineering' on the About page)
• Space Settlement Institute - `The Space Settlement Institute is a non-profit association founded to help promote the human colonization and settlement of outer space. `
• Cygo's Space Initiative - plan and conduct exploration missions to minor planets, build and mass produce (while in space) a multi-purpose interconnectable module, and to offer products and services using space and the materials therefrom.
• Freeluna - `Freeluna.com is dedicated to the proposition that the colonization of outer space is critical for the long term survival of the human species, and that colonization of the moon and the exploitation of the moon's natural resources is one of the very best first steps in that incredible journey off planet.` ... and when I first visited this page, I was visitor #3371. Yikes. Contact: Bill Clawson, wclawson@freeluna.com
• Island One Society - associated with the Artemis society, seems to be mostly a resource-help site.
• The Living Universe Foundation - `The Living Universe Foundation seeks to bring the galaxy alive with life from Earth, while healing the damage that humanity has already inflicted upon the Earth. We believe that expansion into space in the immediate future is a step towards accomplishing this aim.` turmith@yahoo.com --- This organization was inspired by the publication of a certain book. This is heavily related to Project Atlantis or Oceania (artifical floatin

some people already tried this. didnt work out though maybe it would today

http://oceania.org/

In retrospect, the biggest problem concerning The Atlantis Project was lack of interest. Lack of interest and the fact that its precepts were based in Libertarian politics.

The two problems concerning the Project were lack of interest and the fact that its precepts were based in Libertarian politics. And a lack of funding.

The three problems concerning the Project were lack of interest, the fact that its precepts were based in Libertarian politics, and a lack of funding. And an almost fanatical devotion to our cause.

The four... no. Amongst the problems... amongst the challenges... are such factors as a general lack of interest....

I'll come in again.

For those of you that don't know, this is something that author Marshall T. Savage proposed in his "Millenium Project", a book in which he set out a plan for how human beings can colonize the universe. Though I think he's far-fetched, the plan to build world-wide floating cities on top of hydrolical power-generating hexagons is feasible.

Check out information on the Millenial Project here or here.

This also brings me to the interesting Free State project, mentioned on Libertarian Candidate Rachel Mill's Homepage which links to The Free State Project. Interestingly, Rachel Mills decided to raise money for her run for office by selling pushup calendars of the female Libertarian candidates. Yep, Libertarians stand up for your rights and (some of them) do it while looking good too. A much better way to raise money than what the corrupt Democrats and Republicans do, which is by accepting tacit bribes from special interest groups.

This isn't the first time some idealistic libertartians tried to move somewhere to set up an utopia. Although the Atlanteans seemed to think it would be somehow cost-effective to start their new country under the ocean... The whole concept probably won't get this far, but I'd start being impressed if this free state movement will survive its first schism (the usual killer of idealistic movements).

This reminds me of that group of people who wanted to start an offshore, man-made, floating country and call it Oceania. In theory it sounds kind of interesting but it wouldn't take long for all the whacked-out drugs users to pull the cork on this Utopian farce.

For those of you who aren't aware, this is Cypress Creek.

There was a proposal to do something like this by setting up a brand new country, on the assumption that no existing country would ever allow this to happen within their borders. The new country was to be called Oceania, and was to be built in the Carribeans. There is also a FAQ for it.

Yeah, this totally reminds me of the guys who were trying to build their own floating country in the Caribbean. This is not as farfetched, but still probably vaporware.

I was in his very first class. First day, he walked in (long hair, shades), looked around, and said "Nah. Not doing this. Get in a circle or something." Everyone kinda looked around and moved the desks. He came in a few minutes later, sat on his desk, put his feet up on another desk, and began. He had everyone's attention.

I proceeded to take every class of his -- Fiction Writing twice -- and even had him be my Councelor.

The thing that was kewl was that we were encouraged to stand out -- to NOT be conservative in our writing. I remember when he told us all to write the most erotic thing we could -- then had everyone read them aloud the next day. Quite a few of us were a bit embarrased -- but it made everyone more comfortable with each other.

For my Research Writing class, my final paper was on the feasibility of moving to Oceania, which was still active at the time. No other writing teacher at my college would have allowed that.

I think that my classes with Craig helped me to realize that I can do it -- that I can make a difference -- and that it REALLY does NOT matter what anyone else thinks.

Actually, the parent company for that project is based out of Florida, but the artificial island is to be located in the vicinity of Panama (Something about there having been no recorded Hurricanes in that area...). The project is called Oceania.

The drafted Constitution they've written is fantastic. With renewed funding, and luck, one day we'll be neighbors. ;)

There used to be a project called Oceania by some rabid libertarians to build a platform in the Gulf of Mexico and declare it an independent country. Its a shame it never got going.

Of course, the founders weren't thinking of a data haven, but a 'meat' haven, ie. a place where people could live and work, most likely in computer related jobs.

Check out their web site

I don't think its been updated for quite a while.

Then you'll want to read up on the Oceania Project.

They look to create a new country (made out of floating concrete hexagons) near Panama. They've also worked out a very pro-libertarian constitution.

Too bad they don't have nearly enough money to float the first block yet. It could be a good stop-gap measure until we start building space colonies.

For intellectual property to work, people, i.e. folks on the street, must recognize it to be property in the first place, in an ethical sense (paraphrasing Summers' observation). Unfortunately, people consider this to be a matter of degree: "I am getting gouged by the record labels, hence it is not intellectual property, and I am justified in violating copyright."

I think the critical logical element which is missing from both the copyright and patent discussions (both are IP issues, but are vastly different in the practice) is the idea of independent discovery/generation. This is has been the driving force behind the success of FSF/GPL in the "industrial" and "scientific" software arenas, and increasingly in the "consumer" arena. Let Bezos have his "1-click shopping" patent; however, if Barnes and Noble developed "1-click" on their own, let Amazon have no legal basis for "infringement."

This kills several birds with one stone:

• If some entity is charging way too much for their patent, someone else will step up to develop it themselves, instantiate their own patent, and charge less, to the benefit of the consumer.
• Progress (scientific, cultural, etc.) will not be halted during the exclusivity period prescribed by current law.
• There will be an opportunity to create a better product with out fear of litigation.
• People have the right to their own thoughts and usufruct thereof, even if someone else thought of it first.

I will concede that this crackpot idea is much more sticky to implement (in an ethical sense) for publishable works like music and art, but I think the idea has legs nonetheless. The reform idea I have proferred has been popular among certain Objectivist circles, but please don't let that keep y'all from considering it thouroughly on its face.

One legally sound explication of these concepts is in the Oceania Constitution.


*** Proven iconoclast, aspiring epicurean ***

I have no problems with you. You have no problems with me. Our governments are acting like spoiled children, yes. So, let's solve that. There's a reference up above to oceania.org; it is, in fact, defunct/bankrupt. At any rate, no one is doing anything with the page or with anything else. So, let's do it ourselves.

I haven't read it (yet), but check out oceania.org. It seems like it didn't work though.