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The problem is that the competition takes place on web sites like Orbitz or Travelocity where the only criteria for comparing airlines is route and ticket price. There's no indication of whether a particular airline charges extra for checked bags, carry-on bags, or refreshments. Nor is there any indication of how much leg room to expect, how often the airline departs on time, or how often the airline leaves passengers on the tarmac for six hours.

When the only information passengers have is route and ticket price, the airline that can scheme to have the lowest upfront price will win.

http://www.orbitz.com/flight-info/AF/AF-CDG-LAX.html

20 seconds of googling to not be wrong

Newer model 747s, 777s, and the larger Airbuses can do LAX to CDG (Paris) without a problem

Rather than use policy and statistics refute your egregiously false (and borderline racist) conception of Chinese culture, I'll just point you to some resources so that you can begin to correct your ignorance, if you so desire.

For newspapers, at least, online ad revenue is growing quicker than print ads, but still makes up only a fraction of sales. http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/search/art icle_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001570425

Text-based, targeted ads seem to be the rage because of affordability and ease (you don't have to hire someone to create the ad), but you have to keep in mind the masses and masses of people who still muddle through the pop-ups. Sure, it's easy to look through slashdot and hear about people who are quick to turn pop-ups, but don't discount the millions of people who don't understand how to turn them off. (Generally, these are the same people who still have their homepages set to msn or apple, and still have 12:00 blinking on their VCR -- yes, people still have VCRs.) I would guess that these people are likely the most susceptible to advertising messages, too.

I am surprised by the success of advergaming http://www.naa.org/artpage.cfm?AID=6563&SID=103, which is probably most often identified with Orbitz. So popular were the games that Orbitz unveiled orbitzgames.com earlier this year http://pressroom.orbitz.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?Rele aseID=174773, after it says its own study found 78 percent of those who played Orbitz online games would play again in the future. I don't take too much stock in companies' internal studies that are announced in press releases, but I think advergaming has popularity for business folks who might feel guilty (or afraid of getting caught) if they seek out online games. (But hey, if one just opens up while I'm on this site, why not play, right?)

Quick question: What are the feelings on pop-up vs. pop-under ads? I block both, but before I did I tended to dislike the insidiousness of pop-under ads more than the annoyance of pop-up ads.

Does this count? Or this? Lisp is a very powerful language. Paren matching is rendered trivial with any decent editor. The syntax is actually quite nice and clean once you get used to it. I wouldn't use it for everything, and it does have some core ugliness (hey, so does C++), but it has an undeservedly bad reputation.

It is also interesting to see the most popular web sites. Start by typing www. into google suggest. The top 10 are:

1. www.yahoo.com - Search/Directory
2. www.hotmail.com - Email
3. www.google.com - Search
4. www.ebay.com - Shopping
5. www.msn.com - Portal
6. www.aol.com - Portal
7. www.ebay.co.uk - Shopping
8. www.irs.gov - Government
9. www.mapquest.com - Maps
10. www.amazon.com - Shopping

Typing one more letter shows you the top sites for that letter. Here is the top for each letter:

• a is for www.aol.com - Portal
• b is for www.bbc.co.uk - News
• c is for www.cnn.com - News
• d is for www.dictionary.com - Reference
• e is for www.ebay.com - Shopping
• f is for www.food.gov.uk - Government
• g is for www.google.com - Search
• h is for www.hotmail.com - Email
• i is for www.irs.gov - Government
• j is for www.juno.com - Internet service provider
• k is for www.kbb.com - Consumer information
• l is for www.lyrics.com - Music
• m is for www.msn.com - Portal
• n is for www.nick.com - Kids
• o is for www.orbitz.com - Travel
• p is for www.pogo.com - Games
• q is for www.qvc.com - Shopping
• r is for www.rotten.com - Information
• s is for www.sears.com - Shopping (sorry slashdot)
• t is for www.target.com - Shopping
• u is for www.usps.com - Government
• v is for www.verizon.com - Telephone service
• w is for www.weather.com - Weather
• x is for www.xanga.com - Blogs
• y is for www.yahoo.com - Portal
• z is for www.zappos.com - Shopping

This is some random commentary to make sure that my post has enough characters per line on average to get by the lameness filter. Just a few more words should do it. Then I will be over the limit. Maybe you would like to hear a bit about my projects: Attesoro - A internationalization editor for Java programs. Coinmill - A currency conversion website with many currencies, and features such as abilty to parse English sentences asking for currency conversion. Java Utilities - Utilities for common task in the Java programming language such as parsing CSV files and string manipulation.

So they didn't sue them for creating absolute drek, not realizing it's a travel company behind the URL now?

As everyone else that's replied to you has pointed out you are talking out your ass. Lisp had exceptions and GC long before Java or C# were even an idea. GC in Common Lisp is far ahead of GC in Java and .Net, for just this reason. An industrial strength GC isn't made over night, it's made by having applications beat the hell out of the GC and the implementors spending huge amounts of time handling huge programs. This is exactly what's happened for Lisp over the last 20 years. For example, Allegro CL hosts industrial applications the likes that have never even been dreamt of in Java or C#--programs that use GBs of memory and runs for months. Try that in Java or C#.

If you are still unconvinced, Orbitz wouldn't even be possible (according to the authors of the software that run the site) without Common Lisp.

orbitz
orbitz
If you use rel="nofollow" then can you link and not give them google juice.

orbitz
orbitz
If you use rel="nofollow" then can you link and not give them google juice.

I think that if Orbitz wants to prohibit deep linking, then we should just follow the rules. It's their site, and they can do whatever they want with it. I find it immoral and rude to blatantly ignore the rules they set forth. Agree to the TOS to join and you agree to the terms therein. Quit whining, and just accept that you can't deep link.

But I don't the they are a Shitty travel site, you insencitive clod!

OK, I like this part, "(a) you give Orbitz prior written notice of such link by contacting Orbitz Customer Service, to request Orbitz's permission to establish the link." Now, I think the rest of it takes care of itself. How about starting an email campaign asking permission to link to Orbitz. Sure, they could handle a couple hundred requests, but what if 10,000 /.'ers asked permission? What if this got on Boing Boing and 100,000 people wrote it? What if the EFF put out an action alert and 1,000,000 people asked permission to post a link to Orbitz? Now THAT would get their attention.

Here's a link to the rules, and the email address is customerservice@orbitz.com. I've just written them. Who's on board?

Have you actually agreed to those draconian terms of service? Oh dear, better luck next time then.
Meanwhile I can perform the linking for you as I definitely have not agreed to those and thus they don't apply to me: http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt.

Breakin the law!
Breakin the law!
Breakin the law!

Breakin the law!
Breakin the law!
Breakin the law!

Breakin the law!
Breakin the law!
Breakin the law!

Breakin' the law! Breakin' the law!

Breakin' the law! Breakin' the law!

http://cruises.orbitz.com/promotion/amexsale/defau lt.html

Haha!!!!

http://www.orbitz.com/

Oh damn, did I just break the law?

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

Holy shites!! It's out of control!

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

http://www.orbitz.com/

Oh damn, did I just break the law?

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

Holy shites!! It's out of control!

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

http://www.orbitz.com/

Oh damn, did I just break the law?

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

Holy shites!! It's out of control!

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

http://www.orbitz.com/

Oh damn, did I just break the law?

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

Holy shites!! It's out of control!

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

http://www.orbitz.com/

Oh damn, did I just break the law?

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

Holy shites!! It's out of control!

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

http://www.orbitz.com/

Oh damn, did I just break the law?

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

Holy shites!! It's out of control!

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

http://www.orbitz.com/

Oh damn, did I just break the law?

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

Holy shites!! It's out of control!

http://www.orbitz.com/ http://www.orbitz.com/

I've always wondered if 404's count as a deep link.

Look at me orbitz!!!

http://www.orbitz.com/global/I'm%20deep%20linking!

I'll expect my summons in the mail.

Say it with me, all together now: Shitty travel site. If enough of you say it with me, we can make it true!

At least, that's the way I'm reading it. Quick, everyone link to Orbitz, so you can't ever legally use them!

You mean this link:- http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt?

Afraid they can't sue me for that. I've never visited their site (except for pop up ads which I didn't give permission for), so I haven't agreed to their silly EULA.

That was so much fun, I think I'll do it again. http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!!

Neh neh nyeah-nyeah neh! :-P

You mean this link:- http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt?

Afraid they can't sue me for that. I've never visited their site (except for pop up ads which I didn't give permission for), so I haven't agreed to their silly EULA.

That was so much fun, I think I'll do it again. http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!!

Neh neh nyeah-nyeah neh! :-P

You mean this link:- http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt?

Afraid they can't sue me for that. I've never visited their site (except for pop up ads which I didn't give permission for), so I haven't agreed to their silly EULA.

That was so much fun, I think I'll do it again. http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!!

Neh neh nyeah-nyeah neh! :-P

You mean this link:- http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt?

Afraid they can't sue me for that. I've never visited their site (except for pop up ads which I didn't give permission for), so I haven't agreed to their silly EULA.

That was so much fun, I think I'll do it again. http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!! http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt !!!

Neh neh nyeah-nyeah neh! :-P

Guess I shouldn't be doing this:
Retarded terms and conditions.

Here - go look. If you haven't figured out what the site is within 15 seconds, turn off your computer and return it to best buy or where ever you got it.

From their terms page:

"You agree not to create a link from any Web site, including any site controlled by you, to our site."

I have not agreed to their terms, so I think I can post this link legally:

Orbitz

Ha ha, screw you you fascists!

From their terms page:

"You agree not to create a link from any Web site, including any site controlled by you, to our site."

I have not agreed to their terms, so I think I can post this link legally:

Orbitz

Ha ha, screw you you fascists!

Ahh, until their webmonkeys forget to put out the robots.txt file...

I'm afraid they remembered: http://www.orbitz.com/robots.txt

Oops, I just violated the Orbitz TOS. How careless of me. ;)

It's Google Bomb time! Like they can stop me from linking to them. As if they can stop me from linking to something other than their home page.

It's time to start linking to "Orbitz stupid license" from everywhere you can!

I use Orbitz all the time, and I have generally had good experiences with them. In fact, I used them the other day to book a trip to Phoenix. It's too bad these new terms are so restrictive.

I use Orbitz all the time, and I have generally had good experiences with them. In fact, I used them the other day to book a trip to Phoenix. It's too bad these new terms are so restrictive.

I use Orbitz all the time, and I have generally had good experiences with them. In fact, I used them the other day to book a trip to Phoenix. It's too bad these new terms are so restrictive.

I use Orbitz all the time, and I have generally had good experiences with them. In fact, I used them the other day to book a trip to Phoenix. It's too bad these new terms are so restrictive.

I use Orbitz all the time, and I have generally had good experiences with them. In fact, I used them the other day to book a trip to Phoenix. It's too bad these new terms are so restrictive.

I accessed their Terms of Service, referred to me from /. , to ponder some suspect clauses. This puts me in the category of "...obtaining ... content ... through our websites".

Just to tempt you: Don't follow this link, or you'll be a very naughty boy or girl!

Well, that's exactly the point. The people who would be 'members' are people who book flights, not people who run the sites that link to Orbitz (of course, such a person could also be a 'member' too, but they don't need to be), which is why it's pointless. All it's there for is to try to control what their affiliates do with linking to the site, that's all. If I wanted to deep link I'm free to, as I'm not a member of the site, here you go, just for an example - I'm perfectly free to do this. Companies try this sort of things in terms & conditions all the time, not to stop deep linking completely, but because lawyers love to feel they are in control of everything 'just in case'. Jolyon

Well done Orbitz! Way to send your potential new users in the arms of your competitors! I can't wait for the day when you sue Google for breaching your Inbound Links agreement: Linking to any page of the Site other than to the homepage is strictly prohibited in the absence of a separate linking agreement with Orbitz.

There's plenty of similar sites out there, minus the stupid license terms. If this is not /. anti-advertising, I don't know what is.

I'm breaking section 6 of your stupid and unenforceable rules by not getting a 'separate linking agreement' with you before posting that link, and I'm not going to edit this post if you ask me to, becasue slashdot doesn't let anyone edit posts.

I challenge you to try and enforce your new terms and conditions, or drop them.

IMHO, Clicking 'yes' 2x and entering your e-mail address, while definitely interactive, is not sufficient enough process to allow sale of your CCard info. I'd prefer an e-mail/reply system, or something more explicit

--------

Orbitz Statement on Inaccurate Media Reports Regarding Memberworks (MWI) Connections

Chicago, IL, April 20, 2004---Orbitz has partnered with MemberWork's Connections program to offer customers increased savings opportunities at America's most popular retailers and restaurants. MemberWorks assures us that it follows National Best Marketing Practices that go far beyond its competitors in pro-consumer protections and the company maintains a "no questions asked" refund policy.

To ensure Orbitz's customers are aware they are signing up for a paid membership, they must enter their email address twice and click "yes" to enroll in the Connections program. Each step of the sign-up process includes disclosures about the program and how much and when the customer will be billed. Customers who change their minds about membership receive ongoing opportunities from Memberworks to cancel and request a full refund through its "no questions asked" policy.