Slashdot Mirror

Doesn't mean that "gamers" won't buy this stuff... People are stupid when it comes to buying components. Only have 1 video card? Not overclocking your CPU? Only one hard drive? Yeah let's just get this 750W supply just in case.

A 750W power supply isn't that ridiculous. Eventually I bought a new 550W power supply and all the problems went away. Maybe the "reputable brand" of my 450W power supply wasn't actually reputable, or maybe some element inside had degraded over time, but power supply problems are the most frustrating kinds of problems to solve if you are assuming that X watts should be enough. I'm not made of money, but I'm going to buy the best power supply I can afford in the future.

Since when is a $70 to $90 part considered a luxury high-end part? If you has said a $300 water-cooler, I would have agreed with you.

I'll grant you that for a single CPU system with a single hard-drive that a 750W power supply is overkill. However, you need to remember that cheap PSUs do not always provide the power that they are rated at, having a larger PSU provides room for expansion, and having a larger PSU doesn't usually use any more energy as you are drawing the power that the system requires (not the full capability of the PSU) and efficiency is fairly even across different sized PSUs.

I have an 850W power supply. I have a single i7 CPU but I have two high end graphics cards, 6 hard-drives, a PCI Soundblaster card, and a PCI RAID card. Right now, my system is using 225W because it is basically idling while I type but the power usage goes up pretty quickly when playing Far Cry 3.

If you want to find out what you should have for a power supply, check this out: http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

got a customer, mid 50s, plays flight sims and surfs, that's it, but somehow he keeps blowing up computers. for some reason he doesn't blow up laptops JUST desktops, and I can't for the life of me figure out HOW he is doing it. Tried putting it on a UPS in case the power was bad? No good, still blew. I have replaced damned near every part in that machine with new parts, new parts that would still be going if it were anybody else, new CPU, new board, new RAM, the only parts I haven't replaced yet is the case and the GPU but I know the GPU is good as it was mine and I baby my gear and never had a single glitch and the case belonged to my oldest boy who gamed on it for ages without a single hiccup.

So I don't get it, how in the fuck can one old guy keep blowing fucking boards like that? Is it possible to have something wrong with a line that can get past a UPS? Correct me if I'm wrong but I was always told a UPS has the PC run off the battery so that any surges or sags wouldn't affect the PC. And the real stumper is the laptop...why isn't it frying? Its an old Atom netbook so its not like this thing is quality but whatever is causing this has affected it not at all, its ONLY the desktops that blow up. I just can't seem to figure this one out as it doesn't seem to matter where the parts come from, whether they are new or used, it always ends with the system just shutting smooth off and never firing up again. Real head scratcher. I have taken his CPUs and slapped them in another board and had them fire right up so I'm pretty sure he is somehow frying out the boards (although I can't find any obvious damage like blown caps) but I just can't figure out HOW, how can one old guy playing 7 year old flight sims blow up a motherboard protected by a UPS?

- What is connected to the computer? Printer etc? Are they on the UPS?
- I assume that it is connected to the network via a network cable. Is it going through the UPS or a surge protector? Have you tested/replaced the network cables? How about the internet router? Is it on UPS?
- Does he leave the computer on in a hot environment?
- What size power supply does it have? I usually use this when I am building a new computer: http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
- Does he do any other work around the computer? For example, does he file metal or something that can cause metal pieces to get into the case? (grin)
- Does he have rats, mice, ants, bugs? Is it on the floor with an opening large enough for them to get in?

Usually boards fry for the following reasons:

1. Not enough power. PSU is too small. Usually this damages the PSU as it tries to draw more power than it is designed to handle.
2. Too much power. Surges, etc. either through the PSU or through connected devices.
3. Short Circuit. There is something either in the case or getting into the case causing a short circuit.
4. Heat damage. Computer cooking in room with no ventilation.

Here is a handy online power calculator.

I've often wondered if the more efficient PSUs used better capacitors. If the extra cost needs to be offset by longer usage, will the capacitors hold up better/longer? I would guess that if the PSU runs cooler it should be an improvement in the capacitors useful life too. But the total output from a PSU decreases over time. I've used this PSU calculator over the years. In footnote 4 they mention the decreased output over time.

One word : Efficiency.
Some PSU calculators are actually good. With this one, for a system you're defining as a "real" gaming one (i7-3820, RadeonHD 7970, 3 sticks of DDR3, 2 high-rpm SATA HD, 1 DVD-RW/DVD+RW Drive, Sound Blaster, 2 120mm fans) and for that they recommend 487W, so with 550W you still have spare capacity. See ? Ancient123 gave you sound advice and doesn't need to be told what a gaming machine is.
Now, of course, you need to factor in that cheap PSU tend to advertize input wattage while reputable brands advertize sustained output wattage (but you better read the charts to be sure anyway).

Oh contraire mon frere, according to two reviews some Tom's Hardware and this bad boy http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp it will just fit. 398 watts to be exact. Plus this PSU has a little room to spare.

I don't blame you about the CRTs-they can have mine when they can get past my M.O.M(mean old mutt) for 'em. Just can't beat the color quality. I have YET to see an LCD under 3k that had a picture worth a damn. Those TFT displays just look like ass. Now as for the whole "Linux is not mature and you can't service it" deal?

For the most part I would agree. But Puppy Linux, and to a lesser extent DSL Linux you don't really NEED to support it-if your hardware works you are golden and it is damned near impossible to kill it. Also they have their programs already rolled into "puplets" that let you just choose the version you need for the job and everything is installed and ready to go. They have one designed for audio/video creation, one designed for multimedia, etc. They also have ones designed to look and behave like anything from Win95 to Vista and OSX. I just figured an old Win9x guy would appreciate the way they have Puppy set up. Reminds me of the old days when everyone would pass around "pre-rolled" Win98 discs on P2P. And the great thing is they are all live cds, so giving one a spin is a snap. And it frankly flies on old hardware. If you want to give one a spin they are here and I would recommend ecopup, which is laid out just like WinXP. It is laid out so much like XP I've had folks not know they were not on XP!

And you got to deal with the "smokers box" huh? LOL! I can top that one! I was working in this little shop and got called out to a trucking company with my boss. We go to put the PC on the desk to take a look....and the thing won't move! With me and Doug BOTH pulling we couldn't move the damned thing! It had set so long in one place that the wax from the cleaners had built up so hard around it that it was superglued to the floor. So they got me one of those dollies that you slide under a truck with, and I slide under there beside the hot secretaries pretty legs. Well, I pop the side off...and you can't actually SEE any PC parts, because a block of smoke residue and funk had completely filled the case! took me about 3 hours with a shop vac to dig all the grunge out, and damned if the thing wasn't still good. You are right, you just can't kill a P3. I get flamed here for it, but I won't buy AMD. We used to have a "dead CPU" bin and it was filled with AMD chips. The fan died on an AMD and the chip would go with it. The Intel chips would slow down to a crawl, but they just wouldn't burn.

And the problem with OEM boxes, especially Dell, is those damned PSUs. The HDDs are actually good IF, and here is the big if, you get it early enough and chunk the PSU. Because the PSU is so damned cheapo that the crappy power it puts out will strain and kill every other part on the box. That is why I always go with the "150w" rule. What I do when I am building a new one or Frankensteining one together is go here and put in the parts list and then go 150 watts higher than it says. That way the box has breathing room and can have an upgrade or two before needing a new PSU. But the only thing those low powered OEM PSUs are good for is building low power Netboxes. I'll use them on the 1-1.8GHz boxes that need a PSU, but they just can't take the boxes they are 'supposedly" good for. I have found 250w PSUs in 3.4GHz Intel PCs! They just undercut the power too damned much.

Well it was nice to talk to another old gearhead. Too many of the home users think they need these multicore multiGHz monsters when all they do is surf the web and check email. I'm typing this on a 9 year old 1.1GHz Celeron that is whisper quiet, doesn't heat the house up, and makes for a perfect Netbox. That is why a lot of the older machines I give away end up with single moms, churches, and shelters for battered women. They are really happy to get good running machines and I have found setting up a Linux server is pretty simple. The software that most of the churches and shelters use runs great on Win98 an

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

This is the calculator I've used for past builds. It does seem to estimate on the high side, though. It recommends a ~650 watt PSU for my computer (with aging taken into account), but I've never seen mine draw more than ~350 when gaming.

I get my numbers from an actual measurements. Where do you get yours? If you don't have an meter, play with this for a bit.

if your interested in how it works you can read this or a less technical WIKI

Older Processors used lots of power too, and the old power supplies were usually less than 70% efficient

A 25 watt P3 with 3 10 watt (idle) hard drives with no video and a super efficient 10 watt mother and memory and no fans will still use 65 watts, but with the efficiency of 70% that means 85 watts for a best case scenario for an older pc.

Since the pc does little real "work" virtually all of that is expressed as heat in your house. Fine in winter, but in summer that takes another 100 watts to cool that hot air.

-----

and another from 2004>

But most likely these are going to be machines from the last 2 years that can't play the new games, and will likely use far more power.

For reference, my SLI game setup (AMD64 5600 X2, 2 Raptors, 2 Asus 6600 GTS's) pulls 520 real watts playing half life.

I can only afford to play in winter. :P

Another thing to consider when buying a power supply is to be sure to get one that is 80+ certified, which means it has more than 80% energy efficiency, ie wastes 20% or less electric energy as heat, thus reducing electricity waste and bills.
The 80 PLUS Program

Say, a moderate PC will use about 175 Watt, which is 175 Joule/second. In an hour, that is 175 * 3600 / 1000 = 630 kJ. A peanut butter sandwich contains about 100 kcal, that is 420 kJ. So, with 100% conversion you would need to eat 1.5 peanut butter sandwiches to keep a pc running. Of course, you cannot directly convert, but you could use a home-trainer with a cycling dynamo. Human metabolic efficiency during cycling is about 25%, and a good cycling dynamo can have a 50% efficiency. This brings a factor 8 into the equation, you would therefore have to eat 12 peanut butter sandwiches per hour to keep your system running this way.

You'll directly burn them of course, so you won't get obese, but I'd say that it's financially not profitable (all that food! very costly, the healthier the food the more expensive it will be) in comparison to just getting it from the electricity net.