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How about Parrot ? It is the Perl 6 VM, a Javascript implementation is in the works, several other languages are also being developed.

So it's an ex-ex-Parrot?

Already exists and is slowly moving forward with almost zero help. Supports many languages already.
http://www.parrot.org/

Surprisingly, embedding C++ in Perl is easier than embedding C. Of course, that's just my opinion, there aren't a lot of docs on the C++ topic, and I am one of the few Perl programmers who actually enjoy C++.

The Parrot VM http://www.parrot.org/ is supposed to be for dynamic languages what the CLR and JVM are for Microsoft and Java respectively. If it ever makes it to prime time, then you could use your CPAN module with Ruby, or vice-versa.

This scares me. The fact that there are two compilers (which sows confusion) and none is feature complete

Why is that so scary or "confusing"? There are a lot of compilers for C and C++ out there, and they aren't all "Feature complete" (MSFT's C++ compiler for example is not fully C99 compliant and they don't seem in much of a hurry to make it so). Doesn't seem to me to indicate that a language or platform should be discounted.

... and it looks like Parrot was dropped.

Can you give a citation showing this? A new release of Parrot came out just last week. It looks far from dropped--in fact it looks like a VERY actvie development community--they seel to put out a new release every month or so! Also, the latest Radoko compiler for Perl6 is only about a month old itself.

I won't argue the point that the dev timeline is somewhere between "duke nukem forever" and "GNU HURD" in terms of release to market timelines. The devs do seem to be pursuing development of Parrot and Perl6 more in terms of an academic or research exercise than in putting out production code. However it is a complete misstatement to say Parrot has been dropped.

Salt, Pepper, Pinnacle are for pluggins and JIT'd C. I want a virtual machine designed to efficiently compile and execute bytecode for dynamic languages built into the browser instead of a JavaScriptVM.

" if I used perl I would have been done".

And if they would have spent this time, effort, and money on Parrot... You, the Python coder, the Lua coder, and the insert Parrot supported language coder would have been done.

Why the heck aren't they at least using Parrot? It's not hard to target and it would really help the project to get some extra programmers on board. In theory Parrot would allow code sharing between all the different languages that target it. So Dart could call Ruby which can call Python, etc. It's the great unifier of the programming religious wars, and nobody seems to talk about it anymore. Even when it's finally DONE! If you're going to make a new dynamic language, please, please make it using Parrot.

mostly because the Cosmos project has been dead for a year or so

Somebody should port it to another runtime/vm, then we could could call it an inverse ex-parrot.

Folks with a few spare cycles/resources who are growing tired of these 'module' measuring contests might want to throw a bone to Parrot VM. Write a module in ruby, use it from perl6, python, lua, tcl, whatever, or pick any combination above.

I won't wave the red flag explicitly, but suffice it to say I look forward to good ruby performance on parrot.

Arguably, the JVM is worth much more than just the Java language. We already have a VM that can run programs written in multiple languages, and has tools to make developing new languages easy: Parrot. The last time I checked, it was still slow and incomplete, but has already come a long way. Eventually it could become the Free Software JVM replacement. Perhaps those who are looking for a project to contribute to should think about this one.

Why hasn't FOSS come up its own managed runtime+language stack?

Parrot is working on it.

Something like http://www.parrot.org/ you mean ? A whole new VM which can run multiple languages.

Well, I think Java-the-language is already out there. I can't imagine a way for Oracle to get those worms back in the can. So we must be talking about the VM, and maybe their extensions (SE/EE).

My prediction? The VM continues to be free. EE becomes premium. SE, not sure about. And there may be a pay-for-fixes model for the VM that is, by definition, not free. If you need something fixed NOW, you pay. If you need more performance from the VM, you pay. Those fixes may or may not make it into the generally-available VM.

The community solution? IMO, it is to finish Parrot, get a "Java-the-language"-to-Parrot compiler built (perhaps by starting with a Java-the-VM-to-Parrot bytecode converter), and then you can pretty much discard Java-the-VM. Parrot already supports a bunch of different languages (at different levels of completeness), so it seems to me to be a natural fit.

After that project gets going, approach gcc to have gj able to target Parrot instead of Java bytecode, like all their other cross-compiling solutions. It makes Oracle irrelevant.

Maybe, though, we'll have to wait and see what Oracle's real plans are before we, as a community, start down this road. It's an expensive road (in manpower more than $$), and if everyone continues to be happy with Oracle's free offerings, there won't be much impetus to go around Oracle. That said, I can imagine some people still worried enough about Oracle's next move to start work on this, or a similar, solution.

Sounds like we need a new, and truly open, language and runtime for the 21st century.

You mean like Parrot, which already has implementations of several languages?

No. Parrot is neither a language nor a runtime, it is just a VM.

Java is all three, the language, the vm and the class library.

However, parrot might be an interesting vm target for a new language and runtime.

Sounds like we need a new, and truly open, language and runtime for the 21st century.

You mean like Parrot, which already has implementations of several languages?

No, like this.

And I thought from the name it would run on Parrot.

And this is why I believe there should be more people supporting the Parrot VM.
It is already usable and could support a lot more languages decently with better community support.

... none that I know of actually feature any kind of ahead-of-time compilation, even to bytecode.

Parrot does, and thus so does Rakudo Perl 6.

Parrot's ownership is with the Perl Foundation, I believe.

This is a minor nit in an otherwise accurate post. The Parrot Foundation governs Parrot.

Just FYI...

One of the goals of Parrot is to give any language running on it the capability of accessing functionality in libraries written in any other language. For example, a program written in Python could use CPAN modules written in Perl and libraries written in Lisp, presumably keeping a "native" python interface!

Now, as far as I'm concerned, such a thing is practically magic, but I do recognize that it has been done before, and the Parrot hackers are some very smart folks.

While you're being adventurous and testing Perl 5.11.0 I also suggest trying a Perl 6 implementation. Rakudo Perl (running on the Parrot VM) is one of the most actively developed right now. Not as solid as Perl 5.X yet, but certainly getting there.

Building a syntax for CPL seems like it would be an interesting Parrot project.

Great minds think alike! The Parrot team is already working on using LLVM for JIT code generation.

The Perl Foundation was accepted as an organization in Google Summer of Code 2009! I am excited to be the organization administrator.

Students interested in learning more about applying for GSoC2009 with TPF can join the mailing list and read up on The Perl Foundation wiki . For breaking news you can follow me at @dukeleto or join us on IRC on #soc-help on irc.perl.org .

Parrot Foundation is within the umbrella of The Perl Foundation this year, so if you want to work on the hottest virtual machine that just hit 1.0.0, then you are in the right place.

Remember, student applications are due at ~Noon PDT April 3rd 2009. That is surprisingly soon.

Hope to see lots of great applications coming down the pipe!

Thanks, I'll do that..

The next goals are outlined here.
Basically, they target one major release every six months, bumping each time the version number by 0.5. The next focus are:
1.5: integration, interoperation, and embedding
2.0: production users
2.5: portability
3.0: independence from other languages (everything is parrot on parrot)

Complaining about the long wait for Perl 6 is so 2003!

In the mean time the core Perl developers have been busy designing and building the programming language (and runtime environment) of the future.

2009 is the year to start getting excited about Perl 6 again!

For anyone paying attention, things have been really starting to come together in the last year.
- Parrot is nearing 1.0 production release (in March 2009)!
- Perl 6 on Parrot (Rakudo) works and gets new features added every day (see recent note saying "now passing 765 more tests than two weeks ago")

There is nothing dead about Perl 6 apart from public opinion (which will change).

TPF grants just reinforce the commitment that is there to push ahead with the vision that is Perl.

Most people may have abandoned Perl for more fashionable languages at the moment, but when there is a shiny new Perl 6, the crowds will return (and Ruby will be looking quite old-skool).

I predict that the extra effort that has gone into designing Perl 6 will pay dividends 10 fold, with the language being a major player for the next 50 year (instead of 5).

Go Perl 6 !!!

I'd settle for a universal bytecode runtime standard that we could compile Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, etc. into for execution on any client. Kind of like Java, but without... you know, Java....

Squack? Don't know about replacing Javascript clientside, though.

You mean like Parrot?