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bad boards - how to recognise and avoid them

http://www.redhill.net.au/b/b-bad.html

This section, however, is not about the normal variation in quality and reliability between typical motherboards. It is about plain old-fashioned greed, and the cheap, shonky boards that sometimes result from it. Here then, is a short gallery of the cheap, the nasty, and the outright fraudulent.

To quote for the Red Hill web page:

PC Chips fake cache 486

Let's begin with the most famous of them all: the fake cache 486 boards that PC Chips produced in the mid-Nineties.

---------------

From the PCCHIPS website we find: http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/AboutCOMPANY/Abou tCOMPANY.aspx?MenuID=8&LanID=2

PCCHIPS has been a leading supplier of motherboards and PC peripherals since 1994. We are committed to provide products of superior value and exemplary customer service to our customers worldwide.

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Legal.aspx?MenuID =8&LanID=2

The materials ("Materials") contained in this web site are provided by Elitegroup Computer Systems Co., Ltd. ("ECS") ...

I think these quotes speak for themselves.

bad boards - how to recognise and avoid them

http://www.redhill.net.au/b/b-bad.html

This section, however, is not about the normal variation in quality and reliability between typical motherboards. It is about plain old-fashioned greed, and the cheap, shonky boards that sometimes result from it. Here then, is a short gallery of the cheap, the nasty, and the outright fraudulent.

To quote for the Red Hill web page:

PC Chips fake cache 486

Let's begin with the most famous of them all: the fake cache 486 boards that PC Chips produced in the mid-Nineties.

---------------

From the PCCHIPS website we find: http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/AboutCOMPANY/Abou tCOMPANY.aspx?MenuID=8&LanID=2

PCCHIPS has been a leading supplier of motherboards and PC peripherals since 1994. We are committed to provide products of superior value and exemplary customer service to our customers worldwide.

http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Legal.aspx?MenuID =8&LanID=2

The materials ("Materials") contained in this web site are provided by Elitegroup Computer Systems Co., Ltd. ("ECS") ...

I think these quotes speak for themselves.

IMO, stability outweighs all other concerns. I've been putting together my own systems since the days of the 386, and in that time I've used x86 chips from AMD, NextGen, Cyrix, IBM and Intel. The one thing I've leared is that nothing beats the combination of an Intel CPU on an Intel Motherboard.

HTF did this tripe get modded insightful? The stability "argument" was debunked long ago. As long as you're not buying truly cheap -ass parts, stability is not generally going to be an issue. While I do have a pair of 500-MHz P!!!s on an N440BX running my website and mail server, I wouldn't rate it as any more or less reliable than the K6-* and Athlon systems I've built. (With two free processors and the motherboard obtained through eBay for ~$70, it was a cheap way to get into Linux SMP.) Those other systems have been built around decent motherboards and other components, and I would put any of them up against any Intel solution WRT stability or reliability.

>(turns out that msi doesn't have a bios that works with the Barton 2500+ at 333, you have to up the voltage (voids warranty) and use kingston memory - but kingston says they no longer support this (brand-new) motherboard, because they've had too many problems with it)

That's odd. I've sold a lot of those boards using PC2700 RAM without any problems at all. Perhaps kingston is supplying garbage memory. I don't know. I do this without making a single change to the BIOS, except to set the CPU to the proper speed.

You must use an AGP card for video to get this to work if you are talking about PC3200 RAM. AOpen, using the same chipset, warns that you cannot use such highspeed memory and expect stability with the onboard video.

It's all pointless anyways as the speed increases are infinitessimal compared to the heartache of an unstable system.

Ask anyone selling the low end stuff their return rates and compare it to the high end parts. There is a difference. I've seen it as a retailer for both end of the spectrum.

(BTW: Some PC Chips boards that don't include hacked and pirated BIOSes have been known to have bad IDE controllers that randomly corrupt data, due to their false advertising. I've been bitten by this a few years ago. Never again.)

PC Chips mode of business:

- Fake Cache
- BIOS Hacking (as above)
- "Customizable" chipsets (translate to: We use our inhouse garbage chipset with broken IDE support and remark it to whatever you like)
- Fake CPU speeds (*STILL!* K7SOM/K7SEM users beware)
- Paper thin PCBs (my experience)
- Website served from 56k modem (or so it seems), written by ESL students.
- No support after you buy it (If you get more than 1 working BIOS update you are so very lucky)
- Above is likely due to them PIRATING BIOSes from other boards (own experience, not unusual)
- Deceiving naming of products (That's a 666 Mhz VIA board)

There's also unverified rumours that the owners of PC Chips were into CPU remarking.

Think about that next time you buy PC Chips (or, *shudder* ASRock or ECS [same company, PC Chips has a need to change their name often, I wonder why!])

Oh, and before you think I'm just doing this for my business, I try to add more margin in for the junk parts as I know I'll just need to deal with returns right away.

>(turns out that msi doesn't have a bios that works with the Barton 2500+ at 333, you have to up the voltage (voids warranty) and use kingston memory - but kingston says they no longer support this (brand-new) motherboard, because they've had too many problems with it)

That's odd. I've sold a lot of those boards using PC2700 RAM without any problems at all. Perhaps kingston is supplying garbage memory. I don't know. I do this without making a single change to the BIOS, except to set the CPU to the proper speed.

You must use an AGP card for video to get this to work if you are talking about PC3200 RAM. AOpen, using the same chipset, warns that you cannot use such highspeed memory and expect stability with the onboard video.

It's all pointless anyways as the speed increases are infinitessimal compared to the heartache of an unstable system.

Ask anyone selling the low end stuff their return rates and compare it to the high end parts. There is a difference. I've seen it as a retailer for both end of the spectrum.

(BTW: Some PC Chips boards that don't include hacked and pirated BIOSes have been known to have bad IDE controllers that randomly corrupt data, due to their false advertising. I've been bitten by this a few years ago. Never again.)

PC Chips mode of business:

- Fake Cache
- BIOS Hacking (as above)
- "Customizable" chipsets (translate to: We use our inhouse garbage chipset with broken IDE support and remark it to whatever you like)
- Fake CPU speeds (*STILL!* K7SOM/K7SEM users beware)
- Paper thin PCBs (my experience)
- Website served from 56k modem (or so it seems), written by ESL students.
- No support after you buy it (If you get more than 1 working BIOS update you are so very lucky)
- Above is likely due to them PIRATING BIOSes from other boards (own experience, not unusual)
- Deceiving naming of products (That's a 666 Mhz VIA board)

There's also unverified rumours that the owners of PC Chips were into CPU remarking.

Think about that next time you buy PC Chips (or, *shudder* ASRock or ECS [same company, PC Chips has a need to change their name often, I wonder why!])

Oh, and before you think I'm just doing this for my business, I try to add more margin in for the junk parts as I know I'll just need to deal with returns right away.

Encoding, sure. But my 733Mhz VIA C3 doesn't go above ~70% on decoding, and it even has crappy integrated video. Of course, it was also less than half this price, and in Canadian dollars... not very thin, though...

...though I can't understand this obsession with removing everything legacy from PCs - it's not like it would reduce the price much, or increase performance/stability.

Granted I'm running on year old information, but isn't Chaintech known for producing POS motherboards? And anyways, a little research will show that Amptron, PC Chips, Chaintech, ECS, and ASRock might as well be the same company. (PC Chips motherboards and Amptron motherboards look surprisingly similar.)

>So... ECS is PC-chips? huh. something new...

I think so. Imagine this board with this board's colours. It's a spitting image! :-)

Actually, the K7S5A has turned out to be far more durable than any other PC Chips board I've ever met. I would actually say it's a fair board, but I just can't knowing PC Chips past.

So don't worry too much, just count yourself lucky! :-)

Developers must be persuaded to provide Linux drivers, especially for "Winmodems,"

Actually, I hear there is already some good support for Winmodems, especially those with the Lucent chipset. There's even some vendor support for other chipsets.

Does anyone know if any of the distributions include Winmodem support yet?

I'm one of the "good software can make up for cheap hardware" camp. Flame on, whatever.

I'd probably buy one of these. If the introductory price is $89, that means it could fall, too.

I speculated that something like this might occur when PCChips, a motherboard manufacturing company that creates a lot of cheap, sexy form factor all-in-one boards, released their EPD30 model PDA. I purchase PCChips motherboards exclusively for use in my machines, and if this PDA is one made by them, I'll definitely purchase it, to support my favorite cheap-ass hardware manufacturing company. It certainly looks similar, from the one tiny picture I've found of it.

One reason I'm fond of PCChips is that they tend to use hardware that is standardized and usually has had its documentation published by the manufacturer. (SiS advertises themselves as "supporting linux".) Which means it's only a matter of time and code before it can work with an open-source operating system, and you don't get locked into using bastardized proprietary shit that you have to kowtow with an open wallet at some big industry CEO to get at. And if you have the skills, you can improve the way your system works just by writing and installing software.

Looks like it comes with a hotsync cable, not a cradle. Cool! I'm all for cheaper products through less extraneous plastic.

Does anybody have a more thourough review or better pictures of the hardware?

-Mike

Yes, I'm a masochistic software developer with a cheap hardware fetish. You probably wouldn't understand.