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New Linux PDA Available
Jacob writes: "I just ran across an article about a new Linux-based PDA called the Powerplay III Linux PDA. The PDA is manufactured in Taiwan but is being sold by Canadian Linux company, Empower. This PDA is Palm IIIxe compatible (dragonball processor), is shipped with Empower's Linux DA O/S, and get this: its only $89! I'll be getting one..." We mentioned this operating system a few weeks ago. They now have some sort of source download available, which seems like a step in the right direction.
$89! whoho. maybe that will put palm in their place with their 1000% markup on a little lcd screen attached to a 68000 with batteries.
you won't be buying a damn thing when you see the price of VA's stock!
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Ok, cool device - runs linux, comes with apps, cheap, very cheap! But, does the statement "Palm IIIxe compatible" mean you can flash Palm OS on it? My wife would love a PDA, but isn't exactly "bleeding edge". She has troubles with Windows, let alone X. So, is this a budget alternative? Or, is entry-level Handspring still the best bet.
The web site says 6 to 8 weeks for delivery. The product documentation is sparse. I'm not sure if I'd be willing to order from these people just yet. I love the idea of it, but the lack of documentation on the product makes me wonder if it is real or not....
Have you seen the license agreement to download the "SDK"??
http://www.linuxda.com/download/SDK_agree.html
Seems like all those restrictions just maaaaaaaybe against the GPL...
-=-=-=-=-
My mom's going to kick you in the face!
I strongly urge my American brethren, whose national psyche was so heavily damaged after last week's unprecedented loss of life in the terrorist attacks, to BOYCOTT these Linux PDA manufacturers for gross violation of the GPL!!!!!!
DEATH TO THE INFIDELS!
I just checked the web site, and they don't have any actual PDAs for sale at the site store just yet. Oh well.
"...makes me wonder if it is real or not...."
and here, brothers and sisters, is as succinctly as it could be said, the reason why trying to crack an existing market in technolgy products is so tough....
i (and all my friends) usually expect our "devices" to have a major brand name on them...
whether that name is Sony or Palm or Compaq or Casio or Nintendo or Atari
it's up to us to take a chance, roll the dice on the $89, and if it's cool or even just usuable...
WE HAVE TO TELL EVERYONE WE KNOW
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
A cheap Linux PDA is certainly an interesting path to go, but there are some issues based on that data sheet:
"6 month Linux DA O/S software upgrade" - This better be a stable OS if you only get 6 months of upgrades (setting aside whatever license restrictions there are)
8MB RAM and 2MB flash seems a bit small. Doubling the RAM wouldn't be very expensive, but you'd see a large performance increase (speaking from my work with the Agenda VR3). I'm not suggesting that Linux can't run in that space, but it might prevent much in the way of third party applications (assuming that it doesn't contain any software on a ROM chip).
For the price, however, it would be a good choice for a regular user (read: non-hacker). Most of the people who use it probably won't care that it's Linux anyway.
-Sean
Summary of features . . .
Palm IIIxe Compatible
Supplied with Linux DA O/S for PowerPlay III
Processor: Motorola Dragonball, 16 MHz clock rate
8 MB RAM
2 MB Flash (upgradeable)
Serial port for connection to PC
Expansion slot(s): none
Battery: non-rechargeable AAA cells
Color Available: "Galaxy Grey"
15 Days technical support by email
6 month Linux DA O/S software upgrade
One year warranty
Includes: Carrying Case, 2 AAA Batteries, PC Sync Cable, CD with PC, Sync Program, Quick-Start Manual, Handwriting Guide, Warranty Card, Registration Card
See??, it includes a "CD with PC"!
well spoken...
It would seem that the same the balk at a new device that is as cheep as this one, are the same people that bitch and complain that the only options out there are brought to us by the same corperate whores that they DO support.
I'll order one, and if it sucks, it was still cheeper then any MS license fee...
understand? get the picture?
The OS is not under that license.
personally, i don't feel that linux is the best OS for this application. however, to each his own. the $89 price tag makes this quite an appealing purchase. However, the anemic amount of RAM seems to be an important downside. Oh how i long for a PDA that can take the place of my laptop. Or at least one with a respectable amount of storage. bah.
...over and over again! I just don't get it.
What I am crying for actually is a larger display. I know it is supposed to be palm compatible with its 160x160 square screen.
But what keeps them away from enlarging the display into the "graffiti" write zone? This gives roughly 1/3 more display area, for easier data display and email reading and and and...
Admitted, it would confuse the normal Palm user, but how hard is it to program a "softkeyboard" which just displays the graffiti zone at users will? And how hard is it to grab written graffiti from all over the screen? The answer to both: "not very".
The softkeyboard ist just a matter of display in the lower display area and the all-screen graffiti zone is something seen on a lot of palm today that run ScreenWrite (shareware hack).
So?
+++ath0
Where on that site is the technical info about the device? i.e. how much RAM, what resolution, what peripherals, and so on? It's nice it runs Linux and all, and is only $89, but I'd like to try to figure out just how many e-books it would hold. :)
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
for $99 including shipping, i bought one. I always said palms were cool but I couldn't justify spending so much money on them. Now i can't justify not having one.
The Dragonball CPU used in here doesn't have an MMU, which means that you don't get all kinds of things like memory protection, demand paging, fixed address executables etc. Oh, no fork() either. No glibc, so porting gets harder too.
Don't get me wrong; ucLinux is still very cool, but it's not in the same league as the Agenda VR3, VTech Helio, or mono iPaq. Of course, they're all at least double the price....
I have been to hell, and survived!
That better be $89 Canadian.... I could go for a linux machine.
How do you enter text, etc? Graffiti style? OSD keyboard?
From the article: "6 month Linux DA O/S software upgrade"
What does that mean?
I haven't been to Slashdot in quite a while, I return and find a ton of super immature posts. Come on, grow up. What is the point of posting an incredibly irritating or absolutely off topic post? I feel like I've wasted some of my valuable time reading particular messages, only to find out how stupid people can be.
Does that mean I can get their software onto my palm v?
I use a Palm sporadically, and it does what it's supposed to. I don't do much with its TCP stack, but I would expect a Linux PDA to be able to make a PPP connection for ftp, ssh (telnet?), and maybe even to hook up to a remote file system (palmfs, anyone?).
What does a Linux PDA buy me? I haven't seen lists of apps for it, is there a reasonably up-to-date ssh implementation? Can it run Palm apps (my timesheet probably isn't available as a Linux app)? Does it run any popular interpreters (Python, Perl, how about awk)?
If it doesn't have more than buzzwords, it probably won't have a positive impact on my productivity...
But for $89, I can always flash it back to PalmOS if it doesn't work out for me, right?
i'm guessing being a 3x clone, it'll have the standard 2 1/2" screen, instead of the rather small screen of my m100....25% at that size is a huge difference. I'm curious though, i have a copy of a palm OS rom, 4.5.....would I be able to flash the linux rom with a true palm OS (for testing purposes only, of course ; )
a linux palm sold mainstream is neat, but this is hardware compatible only . you still aren't getting the huge benifit of the palm os, which is the infinite supply of quick, useful and more importantly, FREE programs out there.
now you might say 'but this is nothing more than a simple organizer, it's not made to emulate game boy games and various other things, it is simply an electronic address book and datebook', it is, that's what my palm is used for for 90% of the time also, but i also enjoy the versatility of the (shudder) mainstream os, and it's ablity to download play with a new gam at will. avantgo is handy also. i think palm os program compatiblity would be a huge step up.
i'll probably get one anyways, the concept of programming and modifying the kernel of a device like that is too apetizing for me not to : )
moox. for a new generation.
its based on the uCLinux project - its got 2MB flash, 8MB RAM, and its a Motorola Dragonball, all the same as the uC project.
:) It runs on D-balls, StrongArms, MIPS, I'm sure soon stable ports will exist for the PSX and the PS/2....the only thing really missing on teh embedded front at this point are development tools...that said, the GPASM and Atmel tools for Linux are quite nice.
So when is linux gonna run on PIC's and Atmel AVR's?
Are you sure you'd better buy Linux-based PDA just because it's linux-based and cheap? It will be your toy for a few weeks, and then you'll be desperately trying to sell it to somebody. OS and (to some extent) price don't matter here. These little things should be USABLE first of all. And if you need something usable NOW (not a couple of years later) - you'd buy either palm or pocketpc. Don't make a mistake. Define your priorities first.
Altogether, I'd stay away. If you want a nice, functional Linux PDA, take a look at the Agenda. HP also will be coming out with a real Linux PDA.
Oh, you mean that country in which is manufactured an absolute ton of stuff that gets rebranded and resold around the world? While you're up, could you check to see who created Linux and whether or not Microsoft products are annoying? I'd appreciate it.
Well, I don't know about anyone else but for me my PDA is very much a utilitarian tool - I do my playing on a regular computer. So I looked at Linuxda.com (noticed it wasn't open source, but neither is PalmOS), and then found the screen shots. First reaction is that the screens are a bit on the ugly side (although not terminally so), and that it passes some kind of sanity test of functionality. Hard to really know, but I can always hope that this will fulfill my dream of an appliance which Just Works (like I say, I futz around enough with my regular computer, and I don't regret that time, but I don't necessarily want that times 2).
like that linux pda...it will cost 500 dollars, and be just as good as the linux one
I work for an online newspaper here in Norway, and I wanted the paper to test the first Linux PDA, Agenda. So I wrote to Agenda Computing asking for a press kit and a demo model. This was half a year ago. They haven't shown us a model yet, only e-mails assuring that it will be sent "next month". So, is Agenda dead?
Next, I get to thinking about the Linux alternative. I like Linux, I've been using it for years, so I want to give it the benefit of the doubt. However, it has non-rechargable batteries, and they actually advertise "paint" and "CPU Speed" on their list of applications. For me, buying this would be purely an act of Linux patriotism. Perhaps a worthy idea but I don't have the extra cash for that.
Now I'm far from a Micro$oft lover but look at what they are doing.
- 802.11b
- VPN access
- video playback
- audio playback
- e-book reader
These are exactly the sort of things that I would love to add to a PDA. I can surf the web and read word docs from anywhere in my house, yard, or office. I guess asking for it to be small, have a rechargable battery that lasts a week, and to include a cell phone would be too much. Still, it seem like MS is going to own this market whether I like it or not. The good news is that the seem to be doing it by building the best products (according to me).That which does not kill me only makes me whinier
If you're looking to waste money on a piece of junk, with your rationale being that it's "still cheaper than any MS license fee," please send me $75, and in return I will send you something fun. It may or may not be useful, but not only is it "cheaper than any MS license fee," it is also cheaper than one of these puppies! With deals like this, how could you even consider passing it up?
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I've been thinking about getting into PDA development for a while. I was wondering, with a machine like this, what skills would it be good to know in order to develop for it? Languages, toolkits, etc.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
If I was Jeff Dionne, the guy who actually ported Linux to run on Motorolla dragonball processors, I think I would be very pissed off to see these people claiming they are "The first Linux compatible O/S scaled down for the Motorola Dragonball CPU platform."
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
Well, at first look the price does seem very impressive. However, for a brand new unit, I find the omission of an expansion slot somewhat glaring. I know I would definitely have paid extra for it.
my Lunix handheld lets me f-prot the tarball on the go ! Thanks Red Hat!
i've been getting these messages on my 2.4 nat box.
Sep 22 03:23:11 littlefreak kernel: NET: 179 messages suppressed.
Sep 22 03:23:16 littlefreak kernel: NET: 11 messages suppressed.
Sep 22 03:27:43 littlefreak kernel: NET: 5 messages suppressed.
anyone have any idea what they are? I've heard some people say it's repeated messages, so there just supressed.. but i think there's a different message for that.
anyway, thanks in advance.
-Jon
Exhibit A www.linuxda.com/store/powerplayIII.html
Cheap handhelds are a good idea, embedded Linux is good but they can probably be done in a more origional way than this,
I just sent you my order via paypal. Looking forward to the good times!
I went to download the the demo for Palm Vx, and it's in .exe format. Argh.
I sent them a missive of complaint. You should too.
All the technology in the world won't hide your lack of vision, talent, or understanding.
I'm not sure if I need these guys/girls and their product. Not because they're Canadian, rather because I don't want to use a Palm clone running under linux. Me, I'd like to see a console window or X display above the CR field, not all those ugly Palm style buttons.
We hates Palms. Overpriced crap, really.
:wq
I tried to order one of these things and got an error generated by their page. I wouldn't think too much of this normallly except this is spuuposed to be a "linux" site and this is part of the error message:
f m
. CF M
The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFIF), occupying document position (276:4) to (276:104) in the template file D:\wwwroot\stargate\htdocs\cfm\linuxda\shipping.c
The specific sequence of files included or processed is:
D:\WWWROOT\STARGATE\HTDOCS\CFM\LINUXDA\SHIPPING
Why is a "linux" site running on a windoze server?
..if you want a real Linux PDA, the Agenda VR3 is the way to go. It's designed from the ground up for Linux, and 100% open-source.
I just recieved mine a few days ago because I thought it would be a cool toy, not expecting it to to useful as a PDA. Fortunately it is useful for both, however. If you've read negative reviews of the VR3 indicating otherwise, keep in mind that the system has improved greatly since the initial release.
A few good and bad points to keep in mind if you're thinking of getting one:
The good:
The bad:
-Karl
Sounds good. What features are available for it?
how far can this thing really go unless it's running a standard OS?
i know i'm about to be slammed and flamed, but isn't PalmOS far and away the industry standard OS for handeld devices?
Where exactly does this website give a drop of information on the PDA? All I see is "Linux PDA" on the front page and the PDA itself in their online store.
As someone said, the price is right. Well, that means hobbyists such as myself will easily fork out the $89 to play around with it. Will we be able to do anything useful with it remains to be seen. Its the software that differentiates a toy from a utility.
I eagerly purchased the Agenda VR and am woefully disappointed with the quality of software that comes with it. It takes forever to launch any application and locks up within minutes.
The essence of the palm, IMHO, was its simplicity and consequently, its reliable applications. Most people use it for address-book and calendar. These two simple utilities on a relatively stable version of the kernel will go a really long way in making a useful product.
The price of the box will encourage a lot of people around the world to buy it. A few innovative software developers might then be able to put together a few more useful applications.
If you looking for alternative pda that runs linux then check agendacomputing.com. they have sweet little pda using strong arm processor. it runs X. porting apps is a snap, all it needs is recompile. it little more price but it offers more features.
If you shop around, you can get a mono iPAQ for less than twice the price.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Look at that thing. It's truely a disgrace. It looks exactly like a palm but it has 2 more buttons in the graffiti area. It's really just copying palm, which has been attempted before. I also remember reading a news article about linux for the Palm, though they hadn't made a version compatible with the IIIc is why I didn't get it. I have since sold my 3c and have gone with the ipaq h3650. It's a solid handheld other than the windows part of it. It's somewhat light, it does enough color for what I need, it has a fairly good speaker, earphone plug, and IS compatible with linux. Did I forget to mention the sweet 206 mhz processor and 32 mb ram? Oh, and while we are on the topic of processors, I seem to remember a palm having that same processor. What did they do, take a palm and put a different cover on it and call it their own model? Come on everyone, lets get atleast SOME originality. The Linux DA os even LOOKS like palm, and I haven't really been happy with the small screens and software of palm. They aren't even multitasking. Also, from what I hear, the Agenda has many good qualities too.
So are these things overstocked/extra palm devices with a new case and software? For the price, I'd bet that's what they are.
Has anyone actually touched one of these things? How similar is it to a Palm III?
Remember Lexington Green!
After all, that's probably what Palm is doing with BeOS now... I can't wait to see what comes out.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
For 89 bucks, and it's the equal of a palm IIIx? Hell, my visor doesn't even have flash memory.
If the hardware's palm-compatible, one could, I imagine, grab the rom out of a real IIIx and jam it in there. rock.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Can I get in on some of this something fun too? I would love to have one/some of that
I'm one of the "good software can make up for cheap hardware" camp. Flame on, whatever.
I'd probably buy one of these. If the introductory price is $89, that means it could fall, too.
I speculated that something like this might occur when PCChips, a motherboard manufacturing company that creates a lot of cheap, sexy form factor all-in-one boards, released their EPD30 model PDA. I purchase PCChips motherboards exclusively for use in my machines, and if this PDA is one made by them, I'll definitely purchase it, to support my favorite cheap-ass hardware manufacturing company. It certainly looks similar, from the one tiny picture I've found of it.
One reason I'm fond of PCChips is that they tend to use hardware that is standardized and usually has had its documentation published by the manufacturer. (SiS advertises themselves as "supporting linux".) Which means it's only a matter of time and code before it can work with an open-source operating system, and you don't get locked into using bastardized proprietary shit that you have to kowtow with an open wallet at some big industry CEO to get at. And if you have the skills, you can improve the way your system works just by writing and installing software.
Looks like it comes with a hotsync cable, not a cradle. Cool! I'm all for cheaper products through less extraneous plastic.
Does anybody have a more thourough review or better pictures of the hardware?
-Mike
Yes, I'm a masochistic software developer with a cheap hardware fetish. You probably wouldn't understand.
The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFIF), occupying document position (276:4) to (276:104) in the template file D:\wwwroot\stargate\htdocs\cfm\linuxda\shipping.cf m The specific sequence of files included or processed is: D:\WWWROOT\STARGATE\HTDOCS\CFM\LINUXDA\SHIPPING.CF M .
A.G. Russell IV Extreme Internet Solutions The wonderful thing about standards . there are so many to choose from! "W
A lot of people on here are say that there are no apps, and why would you buy one of these. I haven't been a big proponent of linux PDAs for home users. However, businessed have a needs that involve to rolling out PDAs to their employees, and in these cases, linux PDAs are the best fit. Since there is little licensing involved in the OS, they can typically beat a Palm or CE device by $50. When you have to roll out to a couple hundres people, that can make a difference, especially with todays budgets. Since the software typically has to be custom built anyways, the number of native applications doesn't matter. In fact, sometime less apps is better, since people are then using their PDAs for their work.
-no broken link
Well, if they are using uclinux, and
uclinux is "The first Linux compatible O/S scaled down for the Motorola Dragonball CPU platform."
Then the, by extention are also using "The first linux...."
It's $89! Come on! You're comparing it to a $600 pocket PC! I own a Thinkpad T22 and in my opinion your pocket PC is a peice of shit by comparison. Get the point?
There's underfunding, and then there's underfunding. If the operation just has a few flaky aspects here and there, well, OK, maybe they're just concentrating their money where it can do the most good.
But if they're leaving huge garbage files in their source tree -- and distributing same -- they obviously have problems in their R&D, QA, and Integration departments.
In fact, if a company has a slick exterior, but makes a lot of bad engineering mistakes, I'd be very wary of them. Especially if they claim to be able to sell Linux-based, Palm-Compatible PDAs for a hundred bucks! These are all symptoms of a company that is making all kinds of absurd plans in the hope that it will attract funding.
Hey there judgemental man. Just because someone isn't the greatest at windows or linux doesn't make them a retarded goodfornothingbutsex toy. What if your wife/sister/(maybe both) doesn't understand advanced calculus? No one should go around calling her names. I bet you're one of those people that gives arab-americans dirty looks.
Nope, and I wouldn't even know what the hell an "Arab-American" is.
I just installed the LinuxDA demo on my Palm IIIxe. Here are some observations.
First off, The demo is very annoying. About every 15-20 seconds, a message that takes up the entire screen pops up and says, "LinuxDa... a demo copy for limited use... blah blah". I seriously don't think this stuff is GPL. Their license is on their site here.
Second, the UI sucks. I'm not sure why Linux UI implementations have to be so cumbersome. But this one is no different. The drop-down menus are hard-to-control. Often times, selecting a drop-down menu item requires several taps. The UI is 'Palm-like', but it fails horribly in a few key areas of navigability.
Third, I have sent an email off to LinuxDA asking them if they have a shell interface to the RAM filesystem. The demo doesn't have one. Their 'full' version doesn't appear to have one, either. I also asked about whether or not LinuxDA has a TCP/IP stack, or ethernet support. Again, I saw nothing like that in the demo or in the specs of their full version.
So far, my conclusion is thumbs down. I don't like it. Yeah, its Linux, but it sucks right now.
If they give me a shell. If they give me a TCP/IP stack, and ethernet support... then I'm on board. I'm not sure what good Linux on a handheld is without those three things.
Let me get this straight. Under Linux, everything is a file, and with a PDA, there are no files. How does this work? Yup, I may have misunderstood one of these.... :)
Where I work, it's shwarma on a bun with melted cheese.
Why does the OS matter if you only get apps? Or do you get a command line? I didn't find mention of that in the article or their website.
"Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design
I had the same wait time when I pre-ordered my Handspring Visor, it was well worth the wait.
It was the longest 6-8 weeks of my life though!
This is where I keep my clever quotes "" Yup I only got a pair, so I better not waste em!
This is not the first Linux PDA we're promised.
I remember Yopy, which made me drrol just with the bare specs. But what has happened to the Yopy in the meantime? Does anyone know? I'd still love to get one (but a production version, not the developer kit !)
speaking as an agenda VR3 developer owner:
8MRAM/2MFLASH WAY too little for linux (same spec as Agenda)
16MHz 16 bit processor: slower than death v. 75MHz MIPS R4000 in Agenda which is a significantly superior processor.
other items:
Palm IIIxe comaptibility? WTF does this mean?
2-AAAs good, I HATE!!!!! rechargeables.
Overall:
wait for Sharp's Zaurus. This will be the REAL linux handheld... especially since YOPY became vaporware. More RAM, more FLASH, more horsepower, color, Java, at least a spurt of high cash Japanese conglomeration support/subsidizing, etc.
Is this truly 240x320? Screenshots look like 160x160. The review may contain false info.
Another example of US fairness- they gave the Taliban $53Million in May this year despite the fact that they knew they were a bunch of anti-us terrorists. This made the US the biggest supporter of the Taliban.
... itself ?
Then they tell us that they will be punishing the countries that support these terrorrists. So the US is declaring war on
Help me please, my sanity is confusing me.
graspee
Despite what /.'ers have been saying about this particular model, a Linux PDA at this price actually sounds pretty interesting. 320*240 screen res, Motorola processor, non-Windows operating system... it's like Amiga all over again ;)
I still think that PDAs are primarily marketed for business use, though, when there's a huge nerd market waiting to be tapped.
I mean, just looking at the picture of the PDA, it's so obviously a business device - apps shown in the screenshot include Memo, Schedule, and what appears to be a minesweeper clone. When would you ever use something like those on a PDA? I wanna see a USENET reader, a mailer, Telnet, Lynx, perhaps even a text editor and FTP combo so I can write my weblog on the move...
At $89, it's competing with the GBA for my hard-earned cash and Pokémon vs Minesweeper really is no contest...
Personally, I'd spend the extra $30 & get a proven PDA. That seems a lot easier to justify than $100 on some unknown with what sounds like a clunky interface.