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The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. IV)!

From John Hawkins

16) “But, you know, the NRA members are the current incarnation of the brownshirts from Germany back in the early ’30s, late ’20s, early ’30s. Now, of course, there came the Night of the Long Knives when the brownshirts were slaughtered and dumped in the nearest ditches when the power structure finally got tired of them. So I look forward to that day.” — Mike Malloy

17) "Or pick up a baseball bat and take out every f*cking republican and independent I see. #f*cktrump, #f*cktheGOP, #f*ckstraightwhiteamerica, #f*ckyourprivilege." -- Orange is the New Black star Lea DeLaria responding to a meme about using music to deal with violence

18) “I wish they (Republicans) were all f*cking dead!” — Dan Savage

19) “Sarah Palin needs to have her hair shaved off to a buzz cut, get headf*cked by a big veiny, ashy, black d*ck then be locked in a cupboard.” — Azealia Banks advocates raping Sarah Palin over a fake news story

20)” Yes, I’m angry. Yes, I’m outraged. Yes, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House, but I know that this won’t change anything." -- Madonna

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. IV)!

From John Hawkins

16) “But, you know, the NRA members are the current incarnation of the brownshirts from Germany back in the early ’30s, late ’20s, early ’30s. Now, of course, there came the Night of the Long Knives when the brownshirts were slaughtered and dumped in the nearest ditches when the power structure finally got tired of them. So I look forward to that day.” — Mike Malloy

17) "Or pick up a baseball bat and take out every f*cking republican and independent I see. #f*cktrump, #f*cktheGOP, #f*ckstraightwhiteamerica, #f*ckyourprivilege." -- Orange is the New Black star Lea DeLaria responding to a meme about using music to deal with violence

18) “I wish they (Republicans) were all f*cking dead!” — Dan Savage

19) “Sarah Palin needs to have her hair shaved off to a buzz cut, get headf*cked by a big veiny, ashy, black d*ck then be locked in a cupboard.” — Azealia Banks advocates raping Sarah Palin over a fake news story

20)” Yes, I’m angry. Yes, I’m outraged. Yes, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House, but I know that this won’t change anything." -- Madonna

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. IV)!

From John Hawkins

16) “But, you know, the NRA members are the current incarnation of the brownshirts from Germany back in the early ’30s, late ’20s, early ’30s. Now, of course, there came the Night of the Long Knives when the brownshirts were slaughtered and dumped in the nearest ditches when the power structure finally got tired of them. So I look forward to that day.” — Mike Malloy

17) "Or pick up a baseball bat and take out every f*cking republican and independent I see. #f*cktrump, #f*cktheGOP, #f*ckstraightwhiteamerica, #f*ckyourprivilege." -- Orange is the New Black star Lea DeLaria responding to a meme about using music to deal with violence

18) “I wish they (Republicans) were all f*cking dead!” — Dan Savage

19) “Sarah Palin needs to have her hair shaved off to a buzz cut, get headf*cked by a big veiny, ashy, black d*ck then be locked in a cupboard.” — Azealia Banks advocates raping Sarah Palin over a fake news story

20)” Yes, I’m angry. Yes, I’m outraged. Yes, I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House, but I know that this won’t change anything." -- Madonna

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. III)!

From John Hawkins

11) “Cheney deserves same final end he gave Saddam. Hope there are cell cams.” — Rep. Chuck Kruger (D-Thomaston)

12) “If I had my way, I would see Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell strapped down to electric chairs and lit up like Christmas trees. The better to light the way for American Democracy and American Freedom!” — Democratic Talk Radio’s Stephen Crockett

13) “May your children all die from debilitating, painful and incurable diseases.” — Allan Brauer , the communications chair of the Democratic Party of Sacramento County to Ted Cruz staffer Amanda Carpenter

14) “Violence solves nothing. I want a rhino to f*ck @SpeakerRyan to death with its horn because it's FUNNY, not because he's a #GOPmurderbro.” – Joss Whedon

15) “I hope Roger Ailes dies slow, painful, and soon. The evil that man has done to the American tapestry is unprecedented for an individual.” — Think Progress editor Alan Pyke

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. III)!

From John Hawkins

11) “Cheney deserves same final end he gave Saddam. Hope there are cell cams.” — Rep. Chuck Kruger (D-Thomaston)

12) “If I had my way, I would see Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell strapped down to electric chairs and lit up like Christmas trees. The better to light the way for American Democracy and American Freedom!” — Democratic Talk Radio’s Stephen Crockett

13) “May your children all die from debilitating, painful and incurable diseases.” — Allan Brauer , the communications chair of the Democratic Party of Sacramento County to Ted Cruz staffer Amanda Carpenter

14) “Violence solves nothing. I want a rhino to f*ck @SpeakerRyan to death with its horn because it's FUNNY, not because he's a #GOPmurderbro.” – Joss Whedon

15) “I hope Roger Ailes dies slow, painful, and soon. The evil that man has done to the American tapestry is unprecedented for an individual.” — Think Progress editor Alan Pyke

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. III)!

From John Hawkins

11) “Cheney deserves same final end he gave Saddam. Hope there are cell cams.” — Rep. Chuck Kruger (D-Thomaston)

12) “If I had my way, I would see Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell strapped down to electric chairs and lit up like Christmas trees. The better to light the way for American Democracy and American Freedom!” — Democratic Talk Radio’s Stephen Crockett

13) “May your children all die from debilitating, painful and incurable diseases.” — Allan Brauer , the communications chair of the Democratic Party of Sacramento County to Ted Cruz staffer Amanda Carpenter

14) “Violence solves nothing. I want a rhino to f*ck @SpeakerRyan to death with its horn because it's FUNNY, not because he's a #GOPmurderbro.” – Joss Whedon

15) “I hope Roger Ailes dies slow, painful, and soon. The evil that man has done to the American tapestry is unprecedented for an individual.” — Think Progress editor Alan Pyke

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. III)!

From John Hawkins

11) “Cheney deserves same final end he gave Saddam. Hope there are cell cams.” — Rep. Chuck Kruger (D-Thomaston)

12) “If I had my way, I would see Katherine Harris and Ken Blackwell strapped down to electric chairs and lit up like Christmas trees. The better to light the way for American Democracy and American Freedom!” — Democratic Talk Radio’s Stephen Crockett

13) “May your children all die from debilitating, painful and incurable diseases.” — Allan Brauer , the communications chair of the Democratic Party of Sacramento County to Ted Cruz staffer Amanda Carpenter

14) “Violence solves nothing. I want a rhino to f*ck @SpeakerRyan to death with its horn because it's FUNNY, not because he's a #GOPmurderbro.” – Joss Whedon

15) “I hope Roger Ailes dies slow, painful, and soon. The evil that man has done to the American tapestry is unprecedented for an individual.” — Think Progress editor Alan Pyke

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. II)!

From John Hawkins

6) “Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Well, we’ve been watching intifada in Palestine, we’ve been watching an uprising in Iraq, and the question is that what are we doing? How come we don’t have an intifada in this country? Because it seem[s] to me, that we are comfortable in where we are, watching CNN, ABC, NBC, Fox, and all these mainstream giving us a window to the world while the world is being managed from Washington, from New York, from every other place in here in San Francisco: Chevron, Bechtel, [Carlyle?] Group, Halliburton; every one of those lying, cheating, stealing, deceiving individuals are in our country and we’re sitting here and watching the world pass by, people being bombed, and it’s about time that we have an intifada in this country that change[s] fundamentally the political dynamics in here. And we know every – They’re gonna say some Palestinian being too radical — well, you haven’t seen radicalism yet.” U.C. Berkeley Lecturer Hatem Bazian fires up the crowd at an anti-war rally by calling for an American intifada

7) "That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida. Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks." -- Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa

8) “..And then there’s Rumsfeld who said of Iraq ‘We have our good days and our bad days.’ We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say ‘This is one of our bad days’ and pull the trigger. Do you want to salvage our country? Be a savior of our country? Then vote for John Kerry and get rid of the whole Bush Bunch.” — From a fund raising ad put out by the St. Petersburg Democratic Club

9) “Republicans don’t believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don’t give a hoot about human beings, either can’t or won’t. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm.” — The Village Voice’s Michael Feingold, in a theater review of all places

10) “But the victim is also inaccurately being eulogized as a kind and loving religious man. Make no mistake, as disgusting and deservedly dead as the hate-filled fanatical Muslim killers were, Thalasinos was also a hate-filled bigot. Death can’t change that. But in the U.S., we don’t die for speaking our minds. Or we’re not supposed to anyway. Thalasinos was an anti-government, anti-Islam, pro-NRA, rabidly anti-Planned Parenthood kinda guy, who posted that it would be “Freaking Awesome” if hateful Ann Coulter was named head of Homeland Security.” — Linda Stasi, New York Daily News , on a victim murdered in the San Bernadino terrorist attack

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. II)!

From John Hawkins

6) “Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Well, we’ve been watching intifada in Palestine, we’ve been watching an uprising in Iraq, and the question is that what are we doing? How come we don’t have an intifada in this country? Because it seem[s] to me, that we are comfortable in where we are, watching CNN, ABC, NBC, Fox, and all these mainstream giving us a window to the world while the world is being managed from Washington, from New York, from every other place in here in San Francisco: Chevron, Bechtel, [Carlyle?] Group, Halliburton; every one of those lying, cheating, stealing, deceiving individuals are in our country and we’re sitting here and watching the world pass by, people being bombed, and it’s about time that we have an intifada in this country that change[s] fundamentally the political dynamics in here. And we know every – They’re gonna say some Palestinian being too radical — well, you haven’t seen radicalism yet.” U.C. Berkeley Lecturer Hatem Bazian fires up the crowd at an anti-war rally by calling for an American intifada

7) "That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida. Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks." -- Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa

8) “..And then there’s Rumsfeld who said of Iraq ‘We have our good days and our bad days.’ We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say ‘This is one of our bad days’ and pull the trigger. Do you want to salvage our country? Be a savior of our country? Then vote for John Kerry and get rid of the whole Bush Bunch.” — From a fund raising ad put out by the St. Petersburg Democratic Club

9) “Republicans don’t believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don’t give a hoot about human beings, either can’t or won’t. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm.” — The Village Voice’s Michael Feingold, in a theater review of all places

10) “But the victim is also inaccurately being eulogized as a kind and loving religious man. Make no mistake, as disgusting and deservedly dead as the hate-filled fanatical Muslim killers were, Thalasinos was also a hate-filled bigot. Death can’t change that. But in the U.S., we don’t die for speaking our minds. Or we’re not supposed to anyway. Thalasinos was an anti-government, anti-Islam, pro-NRA, rabidly anti-Planned Parenthood kinda guy, who posted that it would be “Freaking Awesome” if hateful Ann Coulter was named head of Homeland Security.” — Linda Stasi, New York Daily News , on a victim murdered in the San Bernadino terrorist attack

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. II)!

From John Hawkins

6) “Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Well, we’ve been watching intifada in Palestine, we’ve been watching an uprising in Iraq, and the question is that what are we doing? How come we don’t have an intifada in this country? Because it seem[s] to me, that we are comfortable in where we are, watching CNN, ABC, NBC, Fox, and all these mainstream giving us a window to the world while the world is being managed from Washington, from New York, from every other place in here in San Francisco: Chevron, Bechtel, [Carlyle?] Group, Halliburton; every one of those lying, cheating, stealing, deceiving individuals are in our country and we’re sitting here and watching the world pass by, people being bombed, and it’s about time that we have an intifada in this country that change[s] fundamentally the political dynamics in here. And we know every – They’re gonna say some Palestinian being too radical — well, you haven’t seen radicalism yet.” U.C. Berkeley Lecturer Hatem Bazian fires up the crowd at an anti-war rally by calling for an American intifada

7) "That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida. Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks." -- Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa

8) “..And then there’s Rumsfeld who said of Iraq ‘We have our good days and our bad days.’ We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say ‘This is one of our bad days’ and pull the trigger. Do you want to salvage our country? Be a savior of our country? Then vote for John Kerry and get rid of the whole Bush Bunch.” — From a fund raising ad put out by the St. Petersburg Democratic Club

9) “Republicans don’t believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don’t give a hoot about human beings, either can’t or won’t. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm.” — The Village Voice’s Michael Feingold, in a theater review of all places

10) “But the victim is also inaccurately being eulogized as a kind and loving religious man. Make no mistake, as disgusting and deservedly dead as the hate-filled fanatical Muslim killers were, Thalasinos was also a hate-filled bigot. Death can’t change that. But in the U.S., we don’t die for speaking our minds. Or we’re not supposed to anyway. Thalasinos was an anti-government, anti-Islam, pro-NRA, rabidly anti-Planned Parenthood kinda guy, who posted that it would be “Freaking Awesome” if hateful Ann Coulter was named head of Homeland Security.” — Linda Stasi, New York Daily News , on a victim murdered in the San Bernadino terrorist attack

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. II)!

From John Hawkins

6) “Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Are you angry? [Yeah!] Well, we’ve been watching intifada in Palestine, we’ve been watching an uprising in Iraq, and the question is that what are we doing? How come we don’t have an intifada in this country? Because it seem[s] to me, that we are comfortable in where we are, watching CNN, ABC, NBC, Fox, and all these mainstream giving us a window to the world while the world is being managed from Washington, from New York, from every other place in here in San Francisco: Chevron, Bechtel, [Carlyle?] Group, Halliburton; every one of those lying, cheating, stealing, deceiving individuals are in our country and we’re sitting here and watching the world pass by, people being bombed, and it’s about time that we have an intifada in this country that change[s] fundamentally the political dynamics in here. And we know every – They’re gonna say some Palestinian being too radical — well, you haven’t seen radicalism yet.” U.C. Berkeley Lecturer Hatem Bazian fires up the crowd at an anti-war rally by calling for an American intifada

7) "That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida. Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks." -- Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa

8) “..And then there’s Rumsfeld who said of Iraq ‘We have our good days and our bad days.’ We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say ‘This is one of our bad days’ and pull the trigger. Do you want to salvage our country? Be a savior of our country? Then vote for John Kerry and get rid of the whole Bush Bunch.” — From a fund raising ad put out by the St. Petersburg Democratic Club

9) “Republicans don’t believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don’t give a hoot about human beings, either can’t or won’t. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm.” — The Village Voice’s Michael Feingold, in a theater review of all places

10) “But the victim is also inaccurately being eulogized as a kind and loving religious man. Make no mistake, as disgusting and deservedly dead as the hate-filled fanatical Muslim killers were, Thalasinos was also a hate-filled bigot. Death can’t change that. But in the U.S., we don’t die for speaking our minds. Or we’re not supposed to anyway. Thalasinos was an anti-government, anti-Islam, pro-NRA, rabidly anti-Planned Parenthood kinda guy, who posted that it would be “Freaking Awesome” if hateful Ann Coulter was named head of Homeland Security.” — Linda Stasi, New York Daily News , on a victim murdered in the San Bernadino terrorist attack

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. I)!

From John Hawkins

1) "Michele (Bachmann), slit your wrist. Go ahead... or, do us all a better thing [sic]. Move that knife up about two feet. Start right at the collarbone." -- Montel Williams

2) “F*ck that dude. I’ll smack that f*cker’s comb-over right off his f*cking scalp. Like, for real, if I met Donald Trump, I’d punch him in his f*cking face. And that’s not a joke. Even if he did become president — watch out, Donald Trump, because I will punch you in your f*cking face if I ever meet you. Secret Service had better just f*cking be on it. Don’t let me anywhere within a block.”– Rapper Everlast on Donald Trump

3) “I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn’t be dying needlessly tomorrow.I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.” — Bill Maher

4) “I know how the ‘tea party’ people feel, the anger, venom and bile that many of them showed during the recent House vote on health-care reform. I know because I want to spit on them, take one of their “Obama Plan White Slavery” signs and knock every racist and homophobic tooth out of their Cro-Magnon heads.” — The Washington Post’s Courtland Milloy

5) “F*** God D*mned Joe the God D*mned Motherf*cking plumber! I want Motherf*cking Joe the plumber dead.” — Liberal talk show host Charles Karel Bouley on the air.

The left considers violence wrong except in very specific circumstances.

Of course (Vol. I)!

From John Hawkins

1) "Michele (Bachmann), slit your wrist. Go ahead... or, do us all a better thing [sic]. Move that knife up about two feet. Start right at the collarbone." -- Montel Williams

2) “F*ck that dude. I’ll smack that f*cker’s comb-over right off his f*cking scalp. Like, for real, if I met Donald Trump, I’d punch him in his f*cking face. And that’s not a joke. Even if he did become president — watch out, Donald Trump, because I will punch you in your f*cking face if I ever meet you. Secret Service had better just f*cking be on it. Don’t let me anywhere within a block.”– Rapper Everlast on Donald Trump

3) “I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn’t be dying needlessly tomorrow.I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.” — Bill Maher

4) “I know how the ‘tea party’ people feel, the anger, venom and bile that many of them showed during the recent House vote on health-care reform. I know because I want to spit on them, take one of their “Obama Plan White Slavery” signs and knock every racist and homophobic tooth out of their Cro-Magnon heads.” — The Washington Post’s Courtland Milloy

5) “F*** God D*mned Joe the God D*mned Motherf*cking plumber! I want Motherf*cking Joe the plumber dead.” — Liberal talk show host Charles Karel Bouley on the air.

Clearly not the first if this type of harassment. Check out Chip Rosenthal's nightmare. He registered unicom.com the first day registrations were available and used it as his company web site. Years later a very annoying man started a company named Unicom systems and then spent thousands trying to get the name from Mr Rosenthal. Eventually the courts finally settled it in Mr Rosenthal's favor. http://rightwingnews.com/speci...

Like the original contract for this website which went to a college buddy of the POTUS' wife, without open bidding.

The executive whose company won the no-bid contract is Toni-Townes Whitley and the only association she and Michelle Obama have had is that they were classmates at Princeton.

The right-wing media attempted to twist this fact of attending the same school at the same time as proof of cronyism. Fortunately for those of us who would be informed rather than manipulated, the biggest evidence of this failed smear campaign is the blasted Google landscape around the search terms "michelle obama yale classmate".

The only people repeating this as proof of corruption are biased right-wing media organs and poorly informed /. readers.

• joemiller.us/.../michelle-obamas-princeton-classmate-executive-company..
• foxnewsinsider.com/.../hannity-krauthammer-michelle-obamas-connecti..
• www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Michelle-Os-Princeton-classmate-exec-company-b
• freedomoutpost.com/.../michelle-obamas-college-classmate-toni-townes-...
• dancingczars.wordpress.com/.../surprise-michelle-obamas-princeton-bud...
• www.thecollegefix.com/post/15151/
• www.rightwingnews.com/...obama/michelle-obamas-classmate-a-senior-...

You've noticed the vanishing party affiliation phenomenon. This appears most blatantly when a leftist politician is the subject of some scandal; you may search high and low but you won't find the party affiliation mentioned by the media. That is left exclusively to the detractors, who are then found to be 'uncivil' or some such.

Given the current disposition of the US congress, the same bias manifests itself as using the term "congress" only when the malcontents are pleased. All other times we get "house republicans."

They know you notice. They just don't give a damn.

What would you expect from someone who was such a big supporter of George W. Bush

I don't remember US pulling out of the UN? Sure it could, but it didn't and while it doesn't it is bound by the UN charter like any other member. Presumably its continuing membership means that it is benefiting from it somehow, otherwise it would have pulled out? You can't have it both ways, belonging to an organization but ignoring the rules which are a condition for the membership in the first place.

What part of the UN charter takes the sovereignty of the US away? What part of it denied the US to act and what procedure was followed to declare that the US acted in violation of the fucking charter? Do you even know what sovereignty means? Did you even read my post or the links you provided?

And Germany invaded Poland because some German border guards were shot at by the Poles, right? Now you are just being an apologist for the Bush administration. They can't say we wanted to take over Iraq for a long time for various strategic reasons and 9/11 gave us the public support we needed, so they have to say something. If you think the reason we invaded Iraq is that weapons inspectors had some difficulties monitoring it's non-existent WMD program then you are living in a funny world.

And if England and France would have enforced the armastice that ended WWI, WWII would never of happened. However, none of that has anything to do with right now. Fuck dude, there were a ton of reasons we had for going into Iraq. The presence of them only goes to show that we restrained ourselves until a time when it wasn't in out interest. That doesn't make anything your implying true over anything else. We took as much of Iraq's shit as we could, then we demanded them to honor their armistice agreements, when they didn't, they became void. You don't have to apologize for stating the truth, the fact that you don't like something doesn't make it untrue, you are not the god damned arbitrator on reality. Got over it and get back into the real world.

Sorry, I had to laugh at "the proactive defense strategy". Self defense has its limits. According to your line of thought the ultimate act of self-defense would be to nuke every other country preemptively so nobody could ever threaten us. I hope you don't really believe that Iraq was some kind of a realistic threat to the US? Might is right might be the reality in the world but you are arguing that this is a good thing.

BOy, your a really smart one there aren't you? Do you often impress your friend with wit like that? Maybe you should stop hanging around the short buses. The idea behind the proactive defense, which isn't anything new to bush and if you were one quarter as intelligent as you think you are, you would know about it already. It goes like this, there is a problem, your can deal with it before it gets worse or after all hells broken loose. Preemptive is addressing the threat before it escalates out of your favor. Now go educate yourself a little Mkay.

BTW, Yes, Iraq was perceived as a threat to the US. The previous administration and most of the US senate said so all through the decade leading up to the war. Are two administrations and most of the congress and senate liars or something? If you had some insight back there to why all those people were wrong, you should have convincingly showed it. You didn't so you might as well either admit you using hindsight or going to war is on your hands for failing to inform the government of their errors. ?Chances are, you knew nothing as was simply guessing.

True but not really saying much. If ICC had pronounced the invasion of Iraq illegal, or if there was a UN council resolution to that effect then this wouldn't be an issue worth discussing at all. The fact that they didn't though has more to do with the US power than with any legal issues. If a criminal is so powerful that he has a veto p

For some reason, my first link didn't show.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php

Which reasoning only works until you realize that nearly all of the gigantic mass-media is owned by "conservatives" who have full control over upper management of these media companies (who naturally also happen to be nearly exclusively "conservative") who in turn have full control over whom they hire to be "journalists".

This is only influential if the owners and higher levels of management of said mass media is making content decisions. I don't think anyone is making that claim which moves the observations down to reporters injecting their bias knowingly or not and being compounded by the editorial pages. It is becoming more and more difficult to distinguish editorials from actual news sources and stories in a lot of these areas.

This situation has existed since the first Gutenberg press went into operation. And it is obvious to anyone on Europe, where newspapers are "affiliated" with political parties (and sometimes outright owned by them as is the case with Socialists and Communists who cannot count on many big-business affiliations). The difference is of course in the fact that none of these media outlets attempt to pretend to be "fair and balanced", nor does the public expect them to. That is why people read various papers and try to form their own opinions, instead of moaning about how the media is "biased". Only in the US such things occur due to some nationalistic delusion of the press being somehow above and beyond the class warfare, followed by runaway consolidation of all media in fewer and fewer hands (which is a key part of the long term strategy of these so-called "conservatives").

I agree with everything here except a minor note on the nationalistic delusions. At one time, the press actually was an independent bastion of agnostic reporting that reported the facts while making opinions clear that they were someone's opinion. Agnostic is generally used for religion but take it in this sense to mean not favoring one side or the other of the situation being reported about. I'm having a mental block and can't think of the right wording at the moment so I figure that would do well enough to actually impress a we report you decide type philosophy. Because of that, people regarded the opinions of the news media a lot more and there wasn't a need to push the opinions into the news like there is today. Objectiveness wasn't an issue (or as much of one) at that time. News media outlets attempt to perpetuate this ideal to gain credibility in an increasingly skeptical market which is a reason why you are making that observation.

This doesn't counter anything you said on the topic, I just wanted to offer some insight into why your seeing it.

That diversification of views is what (at least in principle) prevents the phenomenon of jingoistic, uncritical lock-step "coverage" which was characteristic of the US media in the run-up to the Iraq war. No major media outlet asked pointed questions and no one dissented for fear of being branded as "unpatriotic". US really needs some true "leftist" mass media desperately, even just to wake people out of their American Idol stupor.

I don't think you have been paying attention to the 5-10 years before the war. What was being said during the run up has been what was being said for the 5-10 or more years before it. That would be like expecting the media to throw hardball questions out over a celebration of the end of the civil war or something thought to have been historically correct. Here is a sample of the common wisdom of the time. It wasn't until after detractors pressed on that it was changed. No amount of liberal bias would have changed the run up at the time because the concept of Iraq not being a threat was new and counter to the ten years before. Iraq had been in the top ten l

So your lack of understanding means it is acceptable for you to ignore reality and substitute your own rendition. And you think it is a bad thing when your called on it?

Seriously dude, take a chill pill and look at the order of events in the perspective of the time they happened. Here is a list of some democrats and liberals who also thought Iraq had WMDs and were a threat. The problem was that we were wrong on a lot of things and it was because Saddam himself was attempting to look like he could still defend against an invasion from neighboring countries by making it appear that he still had WMDs. Now, WMDs isn't some genaric term here either. Rockets with too far of a range or accuracy is considered a WMD too. This is because it is listed under the banned weapons in the UN resolutions that brokered the armistice from the first gulf war.

In fact, there was so many other countries that believed Iraq still had WMDs and hadn't complied with UN orders to destroy them, 15 countries, Bulgaria, Cameroon, China, Colombia, France, Guinea, Ireland, Mauritius, Mexico, Norway, Russian Federation (formerly the USSR, Singapore, Syria, United Kingdom, and the United States, on the UN security council in 2002 voted for UN resolution 1441 which laid out a deadline for Iraq to come into compliance with it's obligations over WMDs. France and Russia had veto powers and failed to use them. You should also note that while many of the countries I listed voted for the resolution that said Iraq wasn't honoring it's obligations and WMDs were a problem, some of those same countries apposed the US led war and still appose it today. This is important because it shows that we weren't at odds over what we thought about Iraq with other countries, we were at odds with what to do about it.

I find it ironic that people want to call Bush an idiot, then turn around and claim he orchestrated such a big conspiracy. It gets even more unbelievable when you look at all the other countries he convinced in this conspiracy and how long he had been working it when so many liberals in the late 90's were making the exact same statements about the WMDs. I believe your making the classic Monday morning quarterbacking mistake where you already know something that was unknown at the time the decision was made and then attempt to apply it like it was known. While it is correct for history to do this in it's overall judgment of the situation, it is incorrect to do that in order to substitute your own reality over processes and decisions made and the context they were made in.

A 15 year old artillery shell containing mustard gas has much less destructive potential than a 1 megaton nuclear warhead. The Bush adminstration and its pals conjured up the term "Weapons of Mass Destruction" to put all these things in the same category so that they would be better able to scare the American public into supporting an invasion of Iraq to prevent "mushroom clouds over Manhattan".

First, it wasn't a 15 year old artillery shell in 1995 when the inspectors were first removed. Second, I'm not entirely sure what your attempting to get at with the warhead. I don't seem to remember anyone claiming Iraq had a nuclear warhead. At best, it was that he was attempting to get one. Third, It wasn't the Bush administration or his pals who "conjured up the term "Weapons of Mass Destruction"". That was first used by the Clinton administration in reference to Iraq. The term is actually a wording from the UN resolution the brokered the armistice to end the first gulf war. Both Bush's and the Clinton administration has used the term. George H. Bush only used it in referencing the cease fire. And Clinton and the democrats had used the term in the same way that Bush has. Of course there are the right wing sources too, I can even find Video of Clinton saying it in '98. Finally, "mushroom clouds over Manhattan" was never used to describe the Iraqi threat. As a matter of fact, The first I remember it being reference by the administration was in the Jose Padilla "dirty bomb" case and then it was used to claim that a dirty bomb isn't exactly "mushroom clouds over Manhattan". That was in may of 2002, about a year before we went into Iraq.

Apparently you fell for that BS. Gratz.

Yes, obviously I was paying attention throughout the years and not only when Bush get elected. BTW, there are sources all over the internet. It really is inexcusable for you to make incorrect accusations without even looking for them. Did you actually believe that I would not provide them for you or something or that I was incapable of paying attention like you seem to be?

Out of curiosity, did you rush out to enlist for the invasion or were you already in the armed forces and request a transfer to a unit that would be part of the invasion force?

Actually, I was too old to join when the second war started. They would probably take me now if I could get a medical waiver but not when the war started. I signed up for the marines before the first gulf war but was in an automobile accident on my way to boot and they didn't want me after I was healed. They said the injuries would cause issues in the field. My foot and ankle still gimp up every once and a while. However, that doesn't really matter. My service or willingness to serve has no bearing on my views about what we should have done or when.

Food is non scarce today. Plenty of food is grown so nobody has to starve.

It's all about money and power over others when it comes down to it.

This is why so many people die from lack of food daily. There are 3 things working against the hungry, all rooted in money, politics, and or power. First there's conflict, such as in the Congo. Farmers take risks farming in conflict zones, if they themselves aren't killed they may find it hard to grow food. Then if they do they may find it stolen from them. Politics has damaged a lot of farming areas as well. Zimbabwe used to be the breadbasket of southern Africa, now it's a basket case. When President Robert Mugabe came to power he kicked a lot of farmers, many Whites, off their farms. He then gave those farms to his cronies, and those cronies didn't know how to farm. So the farms sat fallow, little if anything was grown on them. Next is money. Europe, Japan, and the US have subsidized their farmers to the tune of billions of dollars. In the US alone, congress approved a farm bill that would give US agricultural businesses almost 300 Billion US taxpayer dollars. With the large subsidies they will get, companies like Archer Daniels Midland, ADM, and Cargill can ship corn to Mexico and Central America and sell it cheaper than it costs farmers there to grow corn. And the US isn't the worst offender, the EU gives it's farmers a lot more whereas Japan gives them a little more.

Do you suppose that the lies put forth by the men who engineered, planned, and executed this war (all Republicans, BTW)...

If The Bush Administration Lied About WMD, So Did These People -- Version 3.0

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
-- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
-- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities"
-- From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed."
-- Madeline Albright, 1998

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983"
-- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement."
-- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability."
-- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we."
-- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow."
-- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors

I have it on good authority that "We do know, of certain knowledge, that (Bin Laden) is either in Afghanistan or in some other country or dead."

Hard to argue with that.

PETA likens the killing of chickens to the holocaust. They actively fund 'eco' terrorists who firebomb research labs and the homes of scientists.
Animal Rights Quotes
Sure they aren't all from PETA members, but you get the idea.

There were only three people (and their staffs) proclaiming that, without a doubt, Saddam had WMD

What a lie. What a downright despicable, arrogant, so-WRONG-it-couldn't-be-wronger-if-it-claimed-2-pl us-2-equals-five fucking lie. And you have either the balls or the stupidity to say Bush lied? What damned planet have you been on, anyway? What color is the sky? It sure as shit can't be blue. What kind of mind-blowing drugs do they have? You've been partaking of them too much.

Like I said. Revisionism. Right out of some idiot's asshole. Instead of pulling that crap out of your ass, you need to pull your completely useless HEAD out first.

Page one of documented quotes proving you are one totally brainless, utter waste of protoplasm.

Page two of documented quotes that demonstrate beyond any doubt that you have less intelligence than a loose, runny beer shit.

Page fucking THREE of even *more* documented quotes that put to bed for all eternity the question of whether you have any functionality left in the utter vacuum between your ears.

Something is wrong all fucking right. Your claim to be sentient is farcical. Calling you a dumbshit would be an insult to all the dung beetles in the world. Hell, it would be an insult to all the DEAD dung beetles in the world.

Al Gore > September 23, 2002
"We know that he has stored nuclear supplies, secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983" -- National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow i

Better a live (paying attention!) one than a DEAD one - like the argument you're presenting.

Ooo! Ooo! Mud Slinging, mud slinging! Never mind the fact that I corrected an outright incorrect statement, I'm actually "presenting a DEAD argument!" I love this logic! It's so screwed up, it would take a Scientologist to sort it out!

As for those little things called facts clouding your argument - you are absolutely correct! Must be why you're avoiding them.

Really? I'm avoiding facts? The facts are that the parent replied to another AC stating that "none of those people started a war with Iraq". The HARD FACTS of the vote record say differently. 77 members of Congress (including Kerry, Lieberman, and Clinton) all voted to give the President the authority to wage war. They didn't have to do that. They could have struck it down and ask the President for more info. But they didn't.

The FACT is that John Kerry then tried to get out of his vote. Not by apologizing for a mistake, but by stating that he "Voted against the War in Iraq." Except, he voted against the war in 1991, not 2002! Only after the truth came out did he backpedal and state that he was "duped." Which he then flip-flopped on again, stating, "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it was the right authority for a president to have."

So if it was the right decision, why didn't he and others vote to support the troops?


Before:
"But I don't think anyone in the Congress is going to not give our troops ammunition, not give our troops the ability to be able to defend themselves. We're not going to cut and run and not do the job." -- John Kerry on the $87 billion dollars spent to rebuild Iraq and support our troops in Iraq, 9/14/03

After:
"I'm proud to say that John (Edwards) joined me in voting against that $87 billion..." -- John Kerry, 7/12/04

"I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it." -- John Kerry, 3/19/04

How the hell do you "vote for" something before you "vote against" something?

FACT: The Bush administration, along with their friend Blair presented false documents and BS information to persuade the vote to go their way.

This is, unfortunately, irrelevant. Unless you can prove that Bush and Blair knowing provided false documents, you've got no case. They could be just as duped as all those democrats screaming for war. If you can prove such an accusation, then I suggest you grab the ear of your local congress-critter. They would be happy to impeach the President.

Even so, I'm afraid that doesn't absolve congress of its responsibility. The US was not directly threatened by Iraq's possestion of WMDs. Either congress believed that Iraq would fund terrorists and was a threat to national security, or they didn't. Perhaps they were looking at these reports?

"Saddam Hussein would pay $US25,000 ($47,000) to the family
of each suicide bomber as an enticement for others to volunteer
for martyrdom in the name of the Palestinian people."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/25/10170047 66310.html

"The party estimated that Iraq had paid out $35m to Palestinian
families since the current uprising began in September 2000."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm

Votes that supported Bush's wargasm aren't exactly legitimately given when they had to be LIED TO to get them.

FACT: The people of the United States confirmed Bush's decision by voting him into office for a second term.

One (of many available!!) example - From the Downing Street Memo: Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through mil

Actually, people have.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/jondavid.p hp

The cat man is in IT. see?

My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.

I am often asked if I still think we should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity. The answer is: Now more than ever!

As Neal says, you shall know the truth, and it will make you mad! :)

Another blog in a similar mindset:
http://instapundit.com/

Right-leaning blogs

http://rightwingnews.com/
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/
http://nicedoggie.net/

Humor - to balance out the bitterness of the last two

http://www.coxandforkum.com/ - Editorial cartoons
http://www.scrappleface.com/ - News satire

Right Wing News Allah Is In The House Little Green Footballs Cavalier's Guardian WatchBlog Iraq The Model Instapundit Power Line Michelle Malkin Ace Of Spades HQ A Small Victory The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler Israpundit Jihad Watch IMAO Moxie Niel Boortz Lonewacko Wizbang Dumb Celebs Fear And Loathing In Iraq Kim du Toit PABAAH Ann Coulter La Shawn Barber Mark Steyn David Limbaugh

Right Wing News

Insightful and often very funny.

Little Green Footballs
IMAO
RWN
and musn't forget
Drudge Report.

By implication, you object to our freeing those people. Please explain why?

Under my logic, vigilantes provide a valuable neighborhood service when there is no police force, and the world (in spite of the pious blather of the UN) does not have a police force.

Consider... during the leadup to the Iraq war, the French intervened twice in Africa. Nobody attacked them for being vigilantes.

The freeing of Kosovo, which was done almost entirely with US military, was not a UN approved operation, but Europe didn't mind that operation. In fact, they begged us to come in and help. Again, nobody called us (or NATO) vigilantes.

There is clearly a double standard at work. When the US takes actions to defend itself, it is a vigilante and evil. But if it takes action to defend European interests, it is just fine. And the French, who have a brutal history of colonialism (which the US does not) catches nary a word of criticism for twice unilaterally intervening in Africa, while at the same time condemning the US's actions in Iraq.

Of course, since France the second largest supplier of weapons to Iraq in the period 1973-1900. USSR provided 57%, France 13%, China 12%, USA 1%. So don't give me your uninformed tripe about how the US armed those countries. In fact, the USSR was the greatest arms supplier to Arab dictatorship. Source is here.

And now you say our stance towards Israel is racism? How pathetic. When the US was far more racist, Jews were discriminated against (just like they are now starting again to be attacked in "sophisticated" Europe). The US did not support Israel until after the 1967 war, when it became clear that Israel was a useful ally to counterbalance the USSR's attempts to control the Persian Gulf through Arab allies.

But in one sense you are right. We do tend to favor people who believe in and practice democracy over those who believe in and practice dictatorship and murder.

Finally, the canard about Iraq and oil is so silly as to be hardly worth refutation. But I'll give you a few arguments anyway... Iraq has less than 1/3 the oil production of Saudi Arabia, about the same production as Venezuela. The total value of oil produced by Iraq in several years doesn't come close to paying our expenses in that war. If we wanted to wage war for oil, why not take Venezuela instead... it has an unpopular government and is much closer to us.

You say we changed our motivations on the Iraq war after we failed to find WMD's - thus implying a dishonesty about our intent. That Iraq had WMD's was assumed by almost everyone in the world, including Iraqi generals who we captured who stated that units adjoining theirs were armed with the weapons. Furthermore, anyone attacking the WMD thesis has to explain why Saddam tolerated 12 years of sanctions when they could have been easily ended by opening up Iraq to serious inspection, rather than blocking inspectors at every chance. Finally, we never claimed that WMD was the only reason to attack Iraq - there were many other reasons, but the critical ones were that Iraq had ties to many terrorist groups, had a history of misjudgement that had cost 1,000,000 lives (and hence represented a danger of providing WMD's to terrorists who would use them against the US), was a despotic regime, the demise of which could be hoped to put strong pressure on other despots - especially those supporting terrorists. But finally, the real issue, so easily glossed over by the nit pickers, is that the modern convergence of the technology of WMD's and suicidal terrorists with a stated aim of destroying the West represents a truly severe and deadly threat to the civilized world - one which Europe seems to imagine can be dealt with by placing ones head in the sand and ones rear in the air. For more facts, check out this, this,

• "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability"--Sen. Robert Byrd in 2002
• "The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow"--President Clinton in 1998.
• "What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs"--Jacques Chirac in 2002.