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geeze getta load of all these would-be 9-fingered wonders.

They already have table saws that do this: http://www.sawstop.com/howitworks/videos.php

Take a look at Saw Stop. A table saw that cuts wood and not a hot dog. http://www.sawstop.com/

To prevent injury from rotary table saws, a company called SawStop makes a finger-detecting rotary saw. If your finger gets into the blade, the saw instantly stops.

It detects finger or flesh by electrical conduction, it mechanically and electrically stops the rotation of the saw blade - so quickly that your finger is not injured.

The finger detection is impressive - if a hot dog is pushed into the fast rotating blade, the blade stops with less than a millimeter of cut into the hotdog.

This is not simple proximity detection or optical sensing. I think that the sawstop system detects contact of the sawblade with a human through capacitance. Much like a high-gain, high input impedimenta audio amplifier will create a loud hum if you touch the input.

I can imagine future robotics also using similar electrical detection of humans.

Details at http://www.sawstop.com/

. . . and people who buy them are liable for being enablers.

By the way, do you think $100-$300 table saws will continue to exist? Check out the video of the tech at the top right of http://www.sawstop.com/ - the technology to do that isn't cheap enough for homeowners and hobbiests on a budget.

... to get leading manufactures to adopt their technology. Only after there was no taker did they decide to start a table saw company of their own. This story can be gleaned from their own website.

I also remember an interview with the inventor from several years ago where he voiced his frustration that none of the leading manufacturers where interested in the technology. Unfortunately I can no longer find this interview but I am not the only one remembering it.

"It seemed, for this industry, a fundamental discovery," Fanning said. "I'd never seen anything like it."

The demo is pretty impressive: http://www.sawstop.com/howitworks/videos.php

Seems to test conductivity, probably between the table and the blade

7. Can I cut conductive materials?

"Yes. You can operate the saw in Bypass Mode which deactivates the safety system's braking feature, allowing you to cut aluminum and other known conductive materials. If you are unsure if the material you need to cut is conductive, you can make test cuts using Bypass Mode to determine if it will activate the safety system's brake. "

The mechanics are pretty cool. It seems to use the momentum of the blade itself to stop the cut. The electrics are trivial, combining the electrics and the mechanics to create a safety feature isn't something I would have thought of... it'd destroy my saw :-)

"Rather than support an international cat-and-mouse style manhunt for multiple unknown individuals and all of the tax dollars that would require ... I'd rather just use a more secure OS and let the people who run Windows deal with Windows problems. Simple."

Obviously simple. In fact, so obvious that you could be asking yourself "Well, why haven't we gotten a secure OS yet?" Well, why not? Ask some security professionals. It's nit just the OS, it's also the application. Case in point - Email users that click on attractive attachments can easily execute a program that is indistiguishable from any other user-accepted application, but of course is malware. An OS that is secure might be able to limit the harm, but the real issue is the user chose to run it. How do we keep users from running these apps? I dunno. But more later on how to choose the target.

"Beware of politician's logic. Politicians logic goes like this: "we must do SOMETHING!" ... "this is something, so it must be done!""

My point was that Microsoft is avoiding a significant patch to the TCP stack for Xp - the one that can permit remote access and control, you know of it. Similar problem with DNS recently, and still we avoid signing root servers. Perhaps I should rephrase, to do what 'we know needs to be done', instead of just 'something'...?

Your comments on people who use tools they don't understand and then complain about the harm caused by predictable problems reminds me of the table saw industry. SawStop is an insanely clever solution to the problem of users dismembering themselves while using table saws. Not cheap, but how much is a finger worth nowadays? The industry in general seems both unwilling to offer this technology on their brands, and equally unwilling to even admit it works. Possibly cost is a factor, but more likely they need to deny the effectiveness to give them plausible deniability for injury suits. Suing isn't the answer, as I know of only one lawyer who can reattach a severed finger, and he has to do that before he files suit... But there it is, a good solution to the safety issue, and unused. I have a feeling I just made your point, somehow... Darn.

The reality is that Windows is the dominant OS, that it is not likely to get more secure in a hurry due to market resistance to the massive changes necessary, that there are any number of security solutions that cannot be relied upon for 100% protection, and users will continue to be both the primary source of security lapses and generally unskilled in proper security actions.

And since the weasels are in fact doing things that are or should be illegal or at least unethical, why shouldn't we go after them? If they are accessible, can be brought to trial, and we have good reason to believe they are doing something illegal, to not ALSO do this makes less sense to me.

And yes, I am proposing something that might not work. Doing nothing, again, is pretty much certain to have no effect.

I'm worried, of course, that pursuit by the legal system may only drive them offshore, to places less antognistic.

Perhaps, we need to recognize something else - That the proper place for Internet security is on the Internet. I'm ready for my ISP to shut off obviously infected hosts for 24 hours a week, with 24 or more hours notice. And no, I don't work for Geek Squad. At least this would wake up users who, as you point out, are not even aware of their predicament. But there are smarter people than me out there who may have better ideas.

You'll need to replace the brake assembly and and possibly the blade It's mildly expensive, but it you have a spare assembly, it can be replaced in five minutes.

it's real as shit and it barely nicks a hot dog: http://www.sawstop.com/howitworks/how_overview.php

In ten years, stoves may be able to return to room temperature in an instant when exposed to living tissue.

I remember, years ago, when I had a cheap watch from Tijuana that claimed to be "water proof". I was about to wear it into the ocean when my cousin asked me "Are you sure it is water proof? What do you gain by testing it when you don't have to?"... In a similar vein, I don't think anyone will go wrong in assuming an operating stove is hot.

Also along those lines, I saw a thing on a some cable channel show, where a saw blade would instantly stop when you put your finger into it. Again, I ask, why would you test that?

I have air bags in my car, I hope not to test them. I am not missing out on the technology of air bags, nor am I sticking my fingers into a "safe" saw blade.

Thankfully, there's another option for this for rotary table saws.

I'm not sure why this is news either. I recommended my company to put one in their wood shop last fall because we occasionally have high school kids in there as interns. Anyway, for $2800, it can be purchased direct. I'd rather replace 100 blades a year than have one table saw accident, but that's my risk manager opinion.

So is this more or less the same as a SawStop? I admit that their video documenting an attempt to saw a hot dog in half is pretty cool, although each use of the safety feature requires a new 40.00 cartridge. Worth a finger, sure, but I wonder how easily they're set off.

No Problem.. Get your $3,000 ready and go here
http://www.sawstop.com/

I forgot the link to the SawStop site
http://www.sawstop.com

http://www.sawstop.com/

God, you're lazy, but this is /.

sigh.

• Is the motor or arbor of the saw damaged when the SawStop system is triggered?
• Will the SawStop system work with wet wood?

God, you're lazy, but this is /.

sigh.

• Is the motor or arbor of the saw damaged when the SawStop system is triggered?
• Will the SawStop system work with wet wood?

Man, if you were working on something and your wood got a little too wet or something, and this thing went off incorrectly, it would be both problematic and expensive. A false negative would be pretty bad too.

The features page (which has javascript rollover junk that Safari won't Grok) lists a "Metal Bypass" for cutting metalic or metal-clad stuff, that WOULD conduct enough to trigger the device.

As far as false-positive expense: I'm guessing if the total system cost is only $50-$150, then the replacement breaking cartridge couldn't be THAT expensive.

False negative would be unfortunate... I wonder how they protect themselves legally? Freak accidents could still happen, and if their magic "safety system" didn't prevent it, would people want to sue them?

- Peter

The site has several high speed videos, like this one, and from the looks of it, only one or two teeth hit the hot dog.

I know this is not feasible for this project, but technology similar to that used by StopSaw would be very helpful in making a "safe mower".

I'd like to see a resource on self-taught inventors/scientists. To me this is much more interesting than longitude.

(Score:2 Off topic) And speaking of inventions, this is the coolest I've seen in a while - sawstop.
Now that deserves a patent.

Another great invention by somebody that is self- taught is...