Domain: seedsavers.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to seedsavers.org.
Comments · 13
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How is this different from "Seed Savers Exchange"?
http://www.seedsavers.org/ "Seed Savers Exchange is a non-profit organization dedicated to saving and sharing heirloom seeds. Since 1975, our members have been passing on our garden heritage by collecting and distributing thousands of samples of rare garden seeds to other gardeners. "
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Post-scarcity post-docs? :-)
You might find the intro of this book of interest (just noticed it today) as it talks about the conflict between scarcity and post-scarcity ideas, including market failures and market-based solutions: http://books.google.com/books?...
"Sustainable Growth in a Post-Scarcity World: Consumption, Demand, and the Poverty Penalty -- by Philip Sadler"IMHO, universities have an implicit moral obligation (including "in loco parentis") to be candid and as accurate as possible with their students about things like career prospects; that they fail to do so as evidenced by this issue is problematical whatever the reasons (including "selection bias" that you only see relatively successful academics working in universities and the advice they give may have worked for them decades ago but may not be very useful either now or for other personality types).
If you look at other countries like in Western Europe, there is not as much of a conflict between being reasonable "successful" in a field and having a family and hobbies and such. Example: http://www.salon.com/2010/08/2...
"Germany's workers have higher productivity, shorter hours and greater quality of life. How did we get it so wrong? ... But even before the recession, American workers were already clocking in the most hours in the West. Compared to our German cousins across the pond, we work 1,804 hours versus their 1,436 hours â" the equivalent of nine extra 40-hour workweeks per year. The Protestant work ethic may have begun in Germany, but it has since evolved to become the American way of life. ... In comparison to the U.S., the Germans live in a socialist idyll. They have six weeks of federally mandated vacation, free university tuition, nursing care, and childcare. ... How did Germany become such a great place to work in the first place? The Allies did it. This whole European model came, to some extent, from the New Deal. Our real history and tradition is what we created in Europe. Occupying Germany after WWII, the 1945 European constitutions, the UN Charter of Human Rights all came from Eleanor Roosevelt and the New Dealers. All of it got worked into the constitutions of Europe and helped shape their social democracies. It came from us. The papal encyclicals on labor, it came from the Americans. ..."Various studies show that overwork does not make people more productive in the long term. Lots of things suffer -- including creativity. Overwork in the USA is a cultural pathology. BTW, it is also problematical to try to motivate the best creative work via rewards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...As for technological innovation, there is a lot of discussion related to that by people like Langdon Winner and E.F. Schumacher (including related to "appropriate technology"). Just look at how US federal dollars went as subsidies via land grand colleges to big agriculture research vs. small farm research. Why were research funds for decades going into ever bigger mechanized harvesting operations and related plant varieties (the tasteless tomato) instead of multi-purpose flexible agricultural robotics useful for small farms and heirloom seeds? Why is funding "Seed Savers" heirloom seed production (seeds with a variety of natural resistance and good nutrition) or remineralizing US soils via ground up rock dust not one of the USA's top defense priorities vs. defending long supply lines of imported oil used to create monocultures propped up in dead soil doused in petro-chemical-derived synthetic fertilizers and pesticides?
http://www.seedsavers.org/
http://remineralize.org/Markets may be good at producing certain types of abundance, but in the absence of political oversight, markets are pro
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Seed Savers Exchange?
Except for the EULA printed on their packets this is very similar to what the very well established Seed Savers Exchange has been doing for decades.
For reference the actual operative text of the EULA is:
"By opening this packet, you pledge that you will not restrict others’ use of these seeds and their derivatives by patents, licenses, or any other means. You pledge that if you transfer these seeds or their derivatives you will acknowledge the source of these seeds and accompany your transfer with this pledge."
It is the actual work of the seed savers group - saving, reproducing, distributing seed - that is preserving these varieties for future generations. Imposing this transfer clause seems to make these OSSI varieties less likely to be redistributed, so it may actually have a negative effect on their propagation. I don't see that having someone taking an heirloom variety and developing a patented variety from it is impeding seed saving and exchanging.
Heirloom varieties are under threat - the number of them in circulation is dropping, and strains are being lost since they do need to be periodically "grown out" to preserve the seed stock. But it is not being caused by heirloom varieties being patented - it is because commercially produced seed is being used by most gardeners for very real conveniences they provide.
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Re:No, corn is not cool
The whole thing has absolutely nothing to do with corn. Corn is big business, widely consumed, and widely genetically modified. It's hip to be against those things. If we could replace corn with sorghum (or amaranth, or teff, or whatever), if sorghum was big business, widely consumed, and usually genetically modified, I guarantee you, the foodies would make the exact same claims about sorghum. I'm not saying I don't have some issues with the corn industry (like their lobbying for subsidies), but the foodie response is really just vacuous reactionary whining.
Anyway, the corn genome itself is pretty cool partly because of all the transposons in it, which one would think would ease out all those fears over the GMO varieties, which I have no doubt are a large reason we are seeing an anti-corn backlash, but hey, why let something as minor as genetics get in the way?
And there are numerous alternative varieties of corn not patented by Monsanto.
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Re:Seed bank? Bah! Apocalyptic spectacle more like
See also: Seed Savers Exchange At its core, SSE is a centralized tracker for gardeners for peer to peer seed exchange. That said, SSE also sells and distributes a subset of their seed varieties to keep the lights on and encourage heirloom planting. They have an account at the Norway seed bank, and use it for offsite backups of rare seedstock. This is a worst-case scenario backup for cataclysmic events like nuclear war or insane seed-eating fungii.
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plant variants
there aren't a whole lot of variants of "corn" or "wheat" or "soy" being planted
I don't personally know about wheat and soya, but I love gardening and I've grown Black Aztec Corn, which is black, and Inca Rainbow corn, which is rainbow coloured. Over the years the only "regular" corn varieties I've grown are sweet white varieties. Seed Savers Exchange has more varieties.
Falcon
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Re:Monsanto has been pulling punches
This really is the scariest and most potentially cruel thing Monsanto and their buddies could do to the third world. Thank goodness for heirloom seeds from places like Seed Savers Exchange.
It's just a matter of time before some super bug, insect, virus or bacteria find a chink in the modern corn crop and leave us in the great potato famine of the 21st century. Corn is the single most successful plant on the planet. We've given over so much of our land to it that if we had a serious corn failure, we'd definitely be in some hot water.
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Re:Sigh
Besides, you are operating under the false assumption that saving back seeds is a common practice
Among many people it is a common practice. There's even Seed Savers Exchange where people can get seeds others have saved. I recently read an article on how to harvest tomato seeds to save as tomato seeds are so small. I save my pepper, I love peppers the hotter the better, seeds among others. It may not be too common for large scale farmers in the developed world though organic farmers and gardeners along with farms in third world countries save seeds. TFA even said how as Director of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance in Iraq Paul Bremer ordered Iraqi farmers to pay a tax on the seeds they saved, there was an article about this on
/, "Iraq law Requires Seed Licenses". People still create their own heirloom plants and that's done by saving seeds. Googling heirloom seeds returns more than 200,000 results. Take for instance peppers, to create a pepper heirloom I want, perhaps it has a specific flavor or heat. I will save seeds from peppers like what I want, and plant perhaps a dozen seeds only from those peppers. When peppers from those plants mature, I'll save the seeds from the best peppers to plant the following planting season then do it all over again.If you were to develop something patentable wouldn't you want to reap the benefit of your intelligence and investments
You can reap the benefits, for one thing you have the advantage of first to market. And by continually making improvements you can stay ahead. I brought the same point as yours in a discussion about copyrights, and someone pointed out that if a reader likes your writing he or she will support you so you will write more. What you can do is release a book on pdf then offer a way readers can order a signed hardback copy of the book from you. I used to write and so supported copyrights. But now I'm not so sure, what I'd do maybe is shorten copyright terms. Say make them 5 to 7 years instead of the life + 50 or 70 congress has extended them. The purpose of copyrights and patents is to encourage progress in the arts and sciences, and the best way to do that is by encouraging continued creation. If you can lock someone out of a market for many years you don't have much incentive to continue to create on a frequent basis.
Falcon -
heirlooms
I try to work around this by using "heirloom" seeds in the garden, rather than modern hybrids.
Unfortunately older heirlooms aren't so easy to find. They can be found at places like Seed Savers Exchange along with other exchanges. However I don't think many people know of these. I used to be a member of a group that exchanged seeds or plants, but I left years ago.
Falcon -
Viable Solutions
how about using some of that new-fangled hypertext
Sounds fair! Here are some solutions that would work, unlike the destruction of individual choice approach Katz advocates:
- Eat Locally - Make a goal for yourself. 10%? 25%? more? Try it for a month and see if you can hack it. It's not easy, but certainly worthwhile.
- Promote natural genetic diversity and redundancy in your garden - Centralized buying from major wholesalers like Lamb-Weston promotes at most two or three genetic varieties in potatos, one in soybeans, etc. Garden with the varieties that have been forgotten.
- Buy local foods - visit the local weekly farmer's market. Find area local foods organizations. Get better produce, picked ripe by family farms in your area.
- Consume simplier, healthier beverages - Know how much waste water and byproduct is created through double-stage fermentation (i.e. making beer)? Drink a better beverage - locally produced hard cider! (An added advantage is that most locally produced cider uses a major variety of apples - mostly kinds you'd never find at the supermarket - and promotes additional natural genetic diversity).
Unlike Katz's Soviet vision, the above can and does work, as long as you're not too stupid or lazy.
*scoove* -
There is a Free Plants Group -
The Seed Savers Exchange is one group that is devoted to the exchange of non-patented seed by hobbyists. They have a mission of preserving biodiversity in fruits and vegetables and helping members trade resources. Last years catalog had 11,000 varieties of non-patented seed for swap. The Flower and Herb Exchange is a related group for flower and herb seed (they share web resources with seedsavers.org). There is a membership fee to cover administrative costs - its free as in freedom, not free as in beer. -
Seed Savers around the world...
There's the Seed Savers Exchange (SSE) based in Iowa, America and founded in 1975. They are particularly interested in "heirloom" seeds. You can become a member of Seed Savers and that gets you a bunch of publications every year.
This group alos has an organised arm called the Flower and Herb Exchange (FHE), which you can also purchase a membership for.
SSE has a Heritage Farm, a living historical museum of plan varieties. SSE also has a commercial store in Wisonsin, America.
Then there's Seed Savers Network (SSN) based in Byron Bay, Australia and founded in 1986. Their goal is to "preserve the diversity of our cultural plants". They have subscriptions of various kinds and have newsletters, seed exchange, a seed bank, workshops and they publish a handbook.
The SSN is setting up networks in the Solomon Islands, Tonga, The Caribbean and Cambodia. They also assisted the Southern African Seed Network (SASN) in setting up in Zimbabwe.
Then there's the Irish Seed Savers Association (ISSA), whose website is under construction. They are "dedicated to the location and preservation of traditional varieties of fruit, grain and vegetables".
The Seed Savers Aotearoa New Zealand (SSANZ), based in New Zealand and probably founded in the year 2000. Their goal is to "facilitate the sharing of information and resources between regional seed saving groups"
Seeds of Change (SOC) founded around 1989 in Sante Fe, New Mexico. SOC "is committed to improving the lives of this and future generations by preserving biodiversity and promoting the use of sustainable organic agricultural practices". They have a commercial store hosted at Yahoo, and a research arm close to Santa Fe. Their website has a lot of different sections and seems to be aimed at the average consumer.
Comox Valley Growers & Seed Savers (CVGSS), based in British Columbia, Canada. Their mission is "Conserve and preserve our plant heritage and diversity by encouraging participation in growing heritage and non-hybrid food crops and other plants". They have mail-order membership.
The Native Seed Savers Network (NSSN) is a Greening Australia project, based in New South Wales, Australia. Started in 1996, "the need for more detail on the appropriate use and management of dwindling areas of locally-native seed resources in the Sydney Basin prompted the development of this community-based native seed trading network"
Primal Seeds aims to:
- Inform and inspire people to take the protection of biodiversity and the creation of food security into their own hands.
- Support grassroots movements around the world who challenge agribusiness and promote food production based on diversity and community.
- Act as an information network.
- Promote seed saving, seed swaping, heritage, open-pollinated, rare, local and illegal seeds.
- Oppose the encroaching model of agriculture based on commodification, which leads to biotechnology, biopiracy, mass mechanisation, heavy chemical inputs and threatens the livelihood of the worlds farmers
Some other resources are:
Seeds of Texas' Vegetable Seed-Savers Handbook
Seed Savers Around The World
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Re:Confused.
Actually, this is all much ado about nothing. For the last 40 or 50 years almost all crops have been grown with hybrid (crossbred) seeds. The result is that they don't "breed true" anyway - you can't save seeds and replant the next year, because the resulting plants will not have the same characteristics as the hybrid plant. You already can't sell the resulting seeds because nobody would want them, as the quality and productivity would not be the same as the commercial hybrids. The real risk (hopefully unlikely) is that if civilization collapsed, and hybrid seeds were no longer available, we mostly don't have the seed stock for self-sustaining agriculture anymore. (but see organizations like http://www.seedsavers.org/).