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John Atkinson's measurements (which were done incorrectly) show these speakers to be superior in every measurable way to the others described above and a proper set of measurements would make them look even better. They extend to nearly 20Hz (-10dB) in the bass and are essentially flat to 20kHz. (They are indeed flat within ±1.5dB from 35Hz to 20kHz when measured correctly.) They produce near-perfect impulse response and step response plots.

John Atkinson's measurements (which were done incorrectly) show these speakers to be superior in every measurable way to the others described above and a proper set of measurements would make them look even better. They extend to nearly 20Hz (-10dB) in the bass and are essentially flat to 20kHz. (They are indeed flat within ±1.5dB from 35Hz to 20kHz when measured correctly.) They produce near-perfect impulse response and step response plots.

John Atkinson's measurements (which were done incorrectly) show these speakers to be superior in every measurable way to the others described above and a proper set of measurements would make them look even better. They extend to nearly 20Hz (-10dB) in the bass and are essentially flat to 20kHz. (They are indeed flat within ±1.5dB from 35Hz to 20kHz when measured correctly.) They produce near-perfect impulse response and step response plots.

Anyway, that's a roundabout way of saying that we can agree to disagree, but I wish the audiophiles would spend more time listening to the engineers and less time reading glossy magazines.

Actually I agree with just about every point you make. I don't have a problem with the technical description of the performance of a piece of equipment, nor do I find the fuzzy terminology used by many audiophiles to be offensive.

Maybe I represent a weird micro-segment of the market but personally I find both views informative. I do find slavish regurgitation of magazine reviews to be irritating no matter the topic. Especially since many of the magazines in the Audiophile scene are rife with inaccuracies and misleading "facts".

There is also a good deal of the classic "It's more expensive so it must be better" mentality out there. I do not need a $9000 pair of speakers to enjoy my music. But nor do I wish to have a $800 pair of consumer grade Bose speakers when I can get more sonically accurate Vandersteen's for about the same price (or for that matter pay half as much and have a pair of appealing Signet bookshelf units).

Still, as you so clearly demonstrated in your comment regarding your most memorable listening experience, music should ultimately be about the emotions and memories evoked by what you are listening to, not the hardware driving it. Any true music lover (audiophile or not) should appreciate that.

other names are less recognizable like Arcam , Marantz, Rega , Rotel , NAD, and Nakamichi . But all make superlative gear for less than you'd think.

my habit has recently been Krell and Vandersteen

above all, any audiophile will tell you to listen, make adjustments, and buy and enjoy what sounds the best. all it takes is love of music

If you aren't afraid of used stuff (I'm not usually) then some good deals can be found on Audio Review. Used Vadersteen 2Ce's can be picked up for under $500 and 1B's for under $350. They make great fronts (the 1B's make great rears too). A very nice Aerial CC3 center channel can be picked up as low as $400. I know that with a good amp that would push the price cap but they're worth it. I have a pair of 2Ce's matched with a CC3 and just some bookshelf Boston Acoustics for the rears (also nice for low budget). I have $1000 in all 5 speakers and my friends all think my stuff sounds really nice. I'm pushing it with a Sony DA30ES and a Pioneer DV-09 DVD player. I'm very happy but I do plan to upgrade the rears. Avoid anything with loud mid range though. It'll ruin the home theatre experience.

If you are looking for stereos on a budget, look at a site called www.goodsound.com -- they have a bunch of great info (although don't deal too much in 5.1). I personally found out about a set of Vandersteen 1C's that I cannot say enough good things about.