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What Audio System Powers Your Home Theater?
FusionJunky asks: "My cohorts and I at The GeekPad are working to develop our home theatre into something a little more robust. We picked up a 36" Sony Television and a respectable DVD Player...now we're ready to tackle audio. We've noticed we have this optical out capability from the DVD player, and a bunch of other new fangled plugs back there, and we were wondering what the Slashdot community uses for home theatre audio. We'd like to keep it under $1500." I'd be interested in what you all feel is the best system for the buck, from your choices in tuners to speakers.
Bose makes some really terrible speakers. Always have, starting with those awful 901's. What they do excel at is sound dispersion. They fill a room with sound, and many people confuse this with good sound quality. Get the Paradigms. They have the dispersion characteristics of the Bose speakers, and actually sound good to boot.
Bose are good... FOR ME TO POOP ON!
Well, you just revealed that you have too much money and know only one name in the audiophile genre.
Try Klipsch, or Boston Acoustics
You shouldn't say that. Of course there are very good Bose speakers for their price. I don't have a home cinema setup, but I have a pair of Bose-301 stereo speakers and, man, one can really crank up the volume on those biaotches!
First off all, return the DVD player and purchase one with progressive scan ouput. The main reason you that 36" XBR400 cost so much is that it can handle 480p in addition to 480i. There are tons of descriptions of the benefits of this that you should read, but the end result is you can kiss the scan lines on the TV goodbye (and on the Wega the scan lines are very distinct). The PS2 and other next-next-gen gaming consoles will also take advantage of this with the correct cables.
As for audio stuff.
1) Do stay away from Bose. They aren't the worst speakers out there but they are the worst value. You can get much better speakers for the same price, or equal speakers for much less. Two brands you should definitely check out are Paradigm and PSB.
2) I'm not as sure on the receiver, I've always been partial to DENON units, however they've released a ton of lower-end units in the last few years that meet your price point, but don't carry the same quality as their higher-end units.
This logic is good. However, I went with another focus. When I bought my system, I realized that I was replacing a close to twenty year old Onkyo that still sounded good, but had *no* modern features.
Phono was it's big feature... anyway, I digress
So what I did when I got my new system was spent a chunk of money on a nice new high-mid end Onkyo that I expect to last a long time. Then I bought decent speakers. They are not that great but they fit the budget.
Now 6 months later I have identified what in the realm of speakers the system is lacking, and I have saved up to purchase a sub-woofer.
The advantage I am getting is that the high end Onkyo has all the features, power, and quality to run whatever speakers I get. However, I can prioritize the spending over time. Kind of like putting the system on layaway, or something.
If you are a true audiophile you will notice the difference between having kick-ass speakers now and having them later. If you want bang for the buck and future expandability, you might consider my approach or something similar.
- CD Player (not a very good one)
- Speakers (Magneplanars)
- Amplifier (Solid State Dynaco)
The system sounded incredible but really,..who cares. I listen to music even more now than I did back then and I can still tell the difference I just don't care as much. My priorities in life have shifted and because of that I would probably fail to see the advantages to a $30,000 system compared to a $5,000 system.Nowadays, I'm 31 years old and my sytem is designed with a few critieria, which are just as important as sound quality. When building my current system I said it must also meet the following criteria:
- It must be out of my way : I don't wanna see it, trip over it, smell it or feel it. That's why all of the components reside in a 19 inch rack away from the living areas and the speakers are all in-wall. Wall mounted volume controls and infrared repeaters blend nicely with the white walls. So this criteria is met. It is out of the way.
- It must be easily controlled by remote: My system pretty much meets this criteria too, except when I have to change DVD's. A DVD changer would come in handy here. Since rack of equipment is so far for my living room, it's kind of a pain to switch movies. This is one of the reasons I have been ripping DVD's and converting them to Divx format, storing them on the hard drive of my video server. Point is, stay away from any components that have stuff only controllable from the front panel. Make sure you can run the whole thing from remote, it opens up your possibilties immensely.
- It must sound decent: Here is where I consciously sacrifice a little sound quality for alot of money saved. For my main system I have a regular old consumer grade Harmon Kardon receiver, my speakers are all of the $100 a pair in-wall type that you get at partsexpress or somewhere. My sound source is one of either a regular old $200 Panasonic DVD, the crappy cable tuner in my crappy Sharp SVHS player or the mp3 server that plays music 24 hours a day. This gives me good enough sound quality to watch movies or listen to music and be happy. And it didn't cost a million bucks.
So that's how my system came about, and I didn't spend alot of money of components either. I probably spent just as much on wiring, wall mounted volume controls, IR repeater system and the rack and mounting equipment. All in all though I say the money spent on the convienance stuff makes the whole system much more house friendly and a pleasure to own.Aaron Newsome
Here in minnesota, our north-suburban GeekHaus is fully equiped with the latest (and also non-lastest) gear.
:(
:) :)
IBM netfinity rack (4' tall)
Yamaha 995a (awsome reciver)
Apex 600a (the new "fixed one"
POS 4head VCR (panasonic i think)
Pioneer vintage LaserDisk player
PPro200 for mp3/xterm serving.
NCD xterminal for surfing/irc/mail/xmms
Philco 27" ultra-crusty tube.
American flag (gota have one)
20hour TiVo (soon to be upgraded)
Difinative Biploar speakers, all around
Klipsch 12" sub
as far as audio goes.. the combination of definiative bipolars (bp8's, matching center/rear), the klipsch, and the Yamaha 995a is close to perfect for a system costing only $3000 all the speakers match up, providing good surround panning, (ill matching speakers can make for wierd pans from front/back/left/right) and the bipolars make for excelent room-filling music for when guests are over. the BP8's also have a beautiful piano key black laqur finish, which if you keep shiny with murphy's oil soap, really show their class.
here's a pic of the place, a while ago..
here we have since then replaced the futon with a loveseat matching the nice couch on the left and a new 36" TV is on it's way to replace the poor tired old philco (which works amazingly well for a 15 year old TV
yes.. geeks actualy live here
yes.. magnepan speakers are excelent for pure music listening.. havn't heard anything spectacular about their use as home theater stuff.. they do make a set designed for it tho.
http://www.magnepan.com
I'm supprised you didn't mention Difinative's line of loudspeakers. for being on the upper side of the midrange stuff, they are quite good for home theater applications.
... that an Ask Slashdot is totally relevant to me. I've also got a 36" Sony XBR 400 and am looking for the sound system to match. I'm willing to spend a little bit more, say $2500, so if anybody has a little big higher priced suggestion, don't be afraid to let me know.
DirecTV vastly overcompresses most of its channels. They look like complete garbage on the XBR400. Pay per view movies and some other channels get better bandwidth and you can really see the difference.
Receiver and speakers are the most important part. A CD player is a CD player nowadays (for the most part), and most DVD players that support DTS and DD will be fine.
I've got:
- Sony 35" TV (KV35-S42)
- Yamaha RX-V995 receiver, 100W/channel, with DTS and Dolby Digital, and 5-way posts
- Klipsch SB-3's (my father has the KLF-30's, they're fantastic)
- Toshiba SD-3109 DVD player
- Old Yamaha CD player
I highly recommend Klipsch, Polk, or B&W speakers. Whatever you do, stay away from Bose. They're complete garbage.
Failure: When your best just isn't good enough.
One thing that makes a huge difference in a Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 surround system are matched speakers. Think about it, each channel has the ability to cover the full range of sound. For some movies, this can be important. If you have a wired little centre channel speaker (most are lame, since they have tiny magnets so as not to screw up your TV), and some little speakers in the back, you won't get consitent sound.
Best bet is to get 5 identical speakers. Of course, that usually means buying 6 speakers, since they come in sets of two.
I have 5 (plus one in storage!) Mission 700's right now. Not huge speakers my any means, but more than good enough for my small living room.
The whole surround-sound effect is -greatly- enhanced when the sound coming from all 5 speakers is matched. The sound from a jet engine flying past your head doesn't change when you move from the front to the rear speakers. The low-note rumbling from a Harley doesn't become a high-pitched whine as the sound passes through teh centre channel.
Try it, you'll like it.
"Tomorrow's forecast: a few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" - Stewie Griffin
Ancient 80 lb. Epicure speakers, Kenwood Basic MA-1 amplifier, Harmon Kardon preamp/tuner, Sony 5-disk cd changer. Sometimes I just plug the cd player directly into the amplifier and use the 20db built-in adjustment.
I really don't think the answer to audio reproduction is more channels. If you sit in the center and far enough back from the stage there will be little difference between what's going in your right and left ears. Sure we can fake ambiance with more channels, but isn't it because we need it to distract ourselves from the qualities of live performance that are missing?
I've heard the bashing of sony and other consumer-hifi producers. I've even read many negative reviews. But the sound quality is good enough for me, I like much of their designs and I can afford it :-)
I've just bought a set of a Sony Str-db 940 (av-reciver) and Pascal sa-ve705 (5 sat and active sub.) and are so far satisfied. Sure i can get a cheaper setup that may sound better (i.e. better detail in stereo mode) but there is also the WAF.
(Wife Acceptence Factor)
I don't have much experience with Bose, but maybe the sony is also worth a look ?
We live in a kind of small apartment and floor space is precious, so the new system should be wall mounted. It should look good and not be black (The WAF). So our tradeoff was the above setup.
But if you want highend at a low price and can build the cabinets yourself, have a look at http://www.ing.dk/tema/selvbyg/ (Its in Danish but the design drawings are at http://www.ing.dk/tema/selvbyg/konstruktion.html )
The designers are http://www.danskaudioteknik.dk/ and the producer of speakers themselves are here http://www.vifa-speak.dk/
http://www.danskaudioteknik.dk/ has a picture of a finished set on the front of their homepage
When it comes to speakers, you just have to go and see for yourself, keeping your budget and space in mind. I've worked in studios with serious speakers like the old Urei 413s with 4000 watts behind them and anything other than that level is a compromise. For instance a lot of people here trash Bose, but if your viewing room is 15x10 you'll appreciate being able to have the speakers AND room for a chair. The flat-panel electrostatic stuff is great but takes a ton of power and can fry your cat if they're nosy. Just beware there are a lot of snake oil salesmen in the high-end audio stores, and a lot of people have a very peer-group-pressure mentatlity when it comes to what they think they "hear".
Take a CD of something like Weather Report's Heavy Weather. "Birdland" is a great track to check out both high and low response.
The revolution will NOT be televised.
The Dolby Digital/DTS reciever(s) I would H*I*G*H*L*Y recommend is either the Technics SA-DA10 or the Technics SA-DA8. After spending nearly $75,000 on audio over the last 15 years, I find a ~$400 receiver is finally a better overall value than my high-end seperates. Go figure. I lost faith in the so-called "hi-end" nearly ten years ago. These products prove they're way out of touch with reality.
These receivers are a joy for both video *and* audio. Please do not let the name "Technics" throw you. They used to produce a very high-end line of audio products under the name Esoteric. I have turned on several friends to these receivers, and they are very happy with them.
For speakers, take a close look at the Gallo Acoustics speakers. Nice looking, NICE sounding, small and very unobtrusive. http://www.roundsound.com for more info. Several friends of mine use the Technics SA-DA10 receiver with the Gallo home theater speakers.
If you got the Sony KV-36XBR400, a better DVD player would have been one with progressive scanning. Much, MUCH nicer picture.
That's exactly my plan. I have eyes on a Yamaha amp, or maybe my friend's Marantz when he wants to upgrade. And the only choice for good speakers in my opinion is Paradigm.
As for TV, I bought a 2 year old Mitsubishi 50" from a friend, just couldn't pass up the deal. It's 4:3, but hey, it was less than $1000.
Now I just need the house to put it all in....
I have a Toshiba 6-disc carousel DVD changer which has optical/S-video/component/RCA out. I also bought a middle-quality A/V receiver from Pioneer (model VSX-508 I believe.... there may be a newer product line by now). For the price ($300, got it for $200 open box), its a kickass receiver. 110Wx5 channel output, optical / coaxial audio in which can be mapped to any input source, etc. The only thng that I DONT like about my receiver is that there's no S-video in/out, which the model above mine (VSX-608) has. I would hook your DVD player up to your receiver via the optical cable for audio, and use component video directly to your TV if your TV has it, otherwise use S-video. This is pretty simple since it's only a 2-cable set up. If you were going to use analog 5.1 Dolby, you'd need at least 6 RCA cables running from your receiver to your DVD player, which can get messy. Obviously, using the method I described above, you'd have to switch video modes on your TV and input mode on your receiver to use the DVD player, whereas if you could run the video through the receiver (as S-video would let you do on a decent receiver that has S-video in/out... there may be some receivers with component in/out as well) you would only have to switch one mode. Secondly, you will probably still have an analog signal input for things like your VCR and TV. For this, I recommend buying an EQ. I went to Best Buy and bought a $100 AudioSource EQ... let me tell you, after I got it tuned, it was the biggest bang for the buck improvement I've ever done for my theatre system. It's a pretty slick looking model, too... it's got a front 3-color LED display for each frequency range, and a Right and left channel 12-frequency adjust. To hook up the EQ, just run RCA cables from the receiver's Tape 2/Monitor port into the main in port on the EQ, and two more from the main-out port on the EQ back into the Tape2/monitor in port on the receiver, and make sure you turn tape 2 monitoring on. Your EQ should then begin equalizing the signal to your enjoyment. Believe me, when I turn the EQ on and off, the sound difference is amazing. Also, even though they're expensive, buy monster cables for all your connections. They have a lifetime warranty and are hands down the best audio/video cables out there. If you're going to build a nice stereo, you should do it right. =) Just my $0.02.
--
Dave Brooks (db@amorphous.org)
http://www.amorphous.org
I'd like to second your non-Newcastle bashing concerning Sherwood. That shit's just that. Shit. My family is mildly rich, so we have a lot in the way of electronics. My older brother used to have a Sherwood system that sucked royal ass. Everyone I know that's had non-Newcastle has had nothing but trouble. That and they sound like shit. The Newcastle stuff is pretty good. My entire system (refurbished Sherwood Newcastle) cost less than 500. One note though, these entire system sets come with POS wire. Something like 24 gauge. Trash it and get better. 14 or 16 gauge should do it. 18 would work but at a slight sonic detriment at high volumes. 12 costs way too much. Also go with high quality cables between electronics. Gold plated is not necessary but don't use the thin shit. Get a surge protector and don't skip on it. No matter what, if your power surges, you'll be looking at a repair on your reciever that might not be cheap. Especially with SN stuff. As I was saying with all the systems my family has, I've found that Yamaha is the best sonically, but they aren't the cheapest. Pioneer is cheap but not that great. Sherwood Newcastle has problems with fuzzy power but isn't that bad in either quality or price. As for the no sub500 recievers, that should be qualified slightly more. Sub500 for MSRP is bad but a refurbished or used 900 MSRP system that sells for 300 shouldn't be dismissed; it's a high quality 900 machine. Hope my rant helpd
Acoustic Energy Aegis Center
Acoustic Energy Aegis Front Satellites
Paradigm Atom Rear Satellites
Hsu Research VTF-2 subwoofer
The entire system performs excellently. The total cost for me was $2400, but (a) it's likely you can get the parts for less, and (b) you can probably substitute out the front satellites for something cheaper, or cut out the $500 sub, which really isn't necessary with satellites of this quality.
Kyle
[ home ]
Reciever:
- Denon AVR-2800. Very good, clean sound. It does both DTS and DD decoding, and I can bi-wire my main speakers. ($1300)
DVD Player:- Panasonic A-120. It's a little older than most (1 1/2 years old...it's not even on the web site anymore), but it does the job nicely. It passes a DTS bitstream, which is all I was really looking for at the time.($500)
Television:- Toshiba TW40X81 A good T.V. is something that you definately shouldn't scrimp on. I agonized for 8 months over this purchase, but it's the best thing I've ever bought Widescreen baby, YEAH! ($3600)
Speakers:- All my speakers are by
- Sound Dynamics. RTS-11's for mains ($1000), RTS-7's for rears ($600), and an RTS-C2 for a center ($300). They kick ass, and compare favourably to similar sounding speakers in the price area too.
Sub Woofer:Looking back, I guess I spent quite a bit of money, but I don't regret a cent of it. I routinely enjoy watching DVD's at home more than going to the theater. I guess that's what it's all about, eh? :)
Bose may sound good to the average listener (they tend to bump up the treble and bass which sounds good at initial impression, but tires later) but especially their lower end systems (especially the small cubes) are lacking in the mid-bass/mid region.
Do your research! Here's a couple links to some good Home Theater boards which should get you going:
www.hometheatertalk.com
www.hometheaterforum.com
The single best advise I can give when looking for speakers is to go and listen to a bunch of them, and bring your own listening material! It's hard enough trying to judge speakers when they're playing off different equipment and in different rooms, so stick with one CD/DVD that you're familiar with.
They sound great at every volume level that I would be willing top run them at without getting evicted :)
I did, however, splurge on a receiver and headphones. Headphones are quite important if you watch/listen by yourself in an apartment. I am proud of my $300 Sony MDR-F1s. Best sub-$500 headphones I've heard (the next model up is probably better as I've had these for 18 months or so).
Like I said, I also splurged on a $500-ish Kenwood receiver on sale for about $300... It's got DTS and Dolby 5.1, etc... I figured it was way more than I need but would facilitate nicer speakers when all my neighbors die :)
ToiletDuk
Protector of the Wastes
Lame. 100's of different models are better.
Try NHT Super One(s) or the consumer B&W models (both about $290/pr) - both with a sub and the appropriate center chan to get the best results.
pronoblem
I would have to agree with you. Sony makes wonderful audio equipment and paired with a good set of Cerwin Vega's, you can't go wrong! I've assembled 2 such systems now and they will blow your socks off. Also, as mentioned before, you get a cool universal remote with the Sony! The system almost works too well in my current college dorm room!! ;)
---- Move SIG...For great justice!
You could always do what this guy did.
Toshiba 61" CinemaSeries HDTV
B&K AVR202
M&K Center 75
2 KLH Passive radiator full ranges for front
2 KLH sealed enclosure full ranges for rear
Monitor Audio ASW210, 200W with Magnesium Gold alloy subs
The B&K is a really fine piece. When DTS 6.1 is finalized with them, I can send it to them and they'll stuff a new logic board in it and I'll get 6.1 (maybe 8.1) surround outs. Then I'll use my old Onkyo TX890 (400W RMS into 2 channels) to drive the remaining outputs.
The B&K is rated for 105W RMS/Ch @ 0.09% THD @ 95dB SNR into 8 Ohms. It's actual measured output is 165W/Ch @ 0.03% THD into 4Ohms.
There are some amps out there that are better than 95dB SNR, Adcom makes one that's good for 114dB SNR. It's reasonably priced too.
The B&K is an exceptionally crisp and 'bright' amp, so your tweets and mids are going to take a lot of abuse. It's good for 4hz - 45kHz. The integrated preamp is 4hz - 144kHz.
I'll second the recommendation on the Energy speakers. Typically they are somewhat cheap for the quality you get and you may be able to find a full surround set for well less than thousand. They are perfect speakers if you want volume but live in a smaller place like an apartment in one of the big cities.
--- I do not moderate.
You mean 5 of the 6 channels, no? On most setups nowadays the sub brings his own juice to the party.
After everything has gotten a chance to break in, do some real setup work. Here's an FAQ on setting up the video yourself and some pointers to getting a ISF Certified pro to bring his $7000 machine and do it for you. I used the Video Essentials DVD that came with my DVD player to do it myself and it makes a significant difference.
Here's another FAQ on doing the audio.
I felt they left out a couple of things though:
Disclaimer: I am not an audio professional or an audiophile (in the elitist sense of the word). I am even using wiring I found for a nickel a foot! I am happy with my Paradigm Mini-Monitor based setup.
The piece you need to handle those plugs is an AV receiver. I have a HarmanKardon AVR-500. A buddy of mine picked up a Marantz (very similar to the AVR-500 and looked to me like a better deal). This class of receiver is ~70-100watts/for the 5 channels and a .1 output for the subwoofer. Unlike older gear these boxes mux video so it is the centerpiece of your system. They handle the optical out from the DVD (typically 1-3 optical inputs). They can output 5.1 via jacks in the back (like pre-out on old receivers). Cable boxes, vcrs, all send video and stereo audio to the unit, on the remote you select the source and you tv takes the monitor output signal. Route the speaker cables to the 5.1 speaker system and you are in business. If your DVD has component out and you tv takes it, that does not go through the receiver it is a direct connect, the receiver needs to be switched to DVD to pick up the audio decode. In my case I use an Apex PCM/raw comes out on the optical and the AVR500 has DTS 5.1 decoding.
One downside is the HK remote seems to be designed by an alien race whose sustinance is complexity. This is by far the most unintuitive remote I have ever used. Maybe the Marantz is better.
All in all it is a fantastic and necessary component in your system.
Speakers are key as well but I will leave that topic for someone else to plug, other than I have a 100watt Yamaha tower subwoofer (apartment living) an it does a nice job for the space.
I got my home theater put together last year I was on a budget too, but wanted decent Dolby Digital and DTS decoding and a nice set of speakers
I went with the JVC RX-7000VBK AV receiver and the AudioSource System-100 6-piece speaker s ystem.
I bought both receiver and speakers from Camera Sphere, a Yahoo Shopping partner. I ended up spending under $600 for the receiver and the speakers.
Looking back, I probably should have gone for the JVC RX-8000VBK instead, because it has more input options, but I've been real happy with it.
The AudioSource System-100 comes with a powered 100-watt subwoofer which delivers plenty of bass for movies in my 16x16 family room, but I can see how it would be a little underpowered in a larger setting.
Overall, I've been very happy with the purchases.
Along with the receiver, I have a Sony DVP-530D DVD player and a JVC 20-inch TV (soon to be replaced with either a 27-inch Sony WEGA or a LCD projector.
the receiver is going to limit the quality of any other component in the system
You meant to say speakers, right? Repeat after me:Speakers are the single most important component of any audio system.
Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
Pioneer Elite series has a serious bang/buck. Lots of inputs/outputs, optical as well, THX certification, 5.1, etc, etc. Sure, it's not Macintosh, but you didn't pay $20k for it, either. I built my own speakers, however.
--
Never knock on Death's door.
Ring the doorbell and run
(He hates that).
Dump the IRS - http://www.fairtax.org
My question is does anyone know which are the better mp3 mini-systems and components? I've heard a bit about the irampline, but no one seems to have really reviewed them or others. Anyone know of some good reviews or have any reccomendations?
I will also vouch for the Technics stuff. It is by no means the BEST but for the amount of money you are looking at investing thier higher end stuff is a good starting point. I have a Technic's reciever that I have had since my junior year in college which still works just fine for me with a pair of Bose 301 speakers (also just fine for most people despite what whiny audiophiles will say). I also suggest that if you pass through the Seattle area that you visit Magnolia Hi-Fi. They have been one of the leading local hi-end audio stores for pushing 50 years now. Many people I know who have spare cash (i.e work in Redmond) have used thier design services for home theaters.
I couldn't agree more here. I bought a Sony DTR-935 (since discontinued.. damn, it ruled) and cabled in my Onkyo DVC600 DVD player. Threw a Bose Center Channel (it sounded better at the sound stage, and is a good center all in all), Infinity RS5's at the front, and Infinity bookshelves in the rear. Makes for lots of neighbor frustration.
Correction s/THX/DTS/g
I don't pretend to be an expert, but I've set up my system with the following components. My parameters were mandatory SVHS input/output on all video sources, best quality sound to my ear. Your ear may vary...
TV JVC 31" (4 years old, SVHS Input.)
Stereo receiver Sony STR-DE1025 with 3 Optical Digital and 1 coaxial digital inputs.
VCR1 JVC SVHS with Jog/Edit
VCR2 JVC Dual-Deck MiniDV / SVHS
CD Player Sony 100CD Changer optically connected
DVD/LD Player Pioneer DVL-700 (Optically connected)
DBS Receiver - 4th Generation Sony with Optical Output
Video Switch - JVC JSX-777 (Makes the system)
Speakers -
6 Cambridge soundworks speakers:
Center, Front-L/R, Back-L/R, 140 Watt subwoofer
If I were doing it again, I would get a less expensive receiver with THX support. I only have Dolby Digital. The speakers make the system. I was very happy with the clarity of the Cambridge. The subwoofer is an ~21" speaker. It does not have an echo-chamber like you see in most subwoofers. The result is a bass that you feel more than hear. The couch actually shakes with the speakers at mid-volume on Armageddon. Unless I'm watching a DD movie, I use the RCA inputs through the video switch. Audio-path goes device-AV Switch-TV-Stereo. I use the TV to manage the audio level into the stereo, so I only need 1 remote to manage the system.
DO NOT use the TV switch in the stereo. It is usually just a relay that connects input to output. The loss of quality is unacceptable. The JVC actually has channel amplifiers and will convert between SVHS and Composite. It will also switch optical inputs for the DVD and the Dish. It takes the selected input, amplifies it, and sends it to all of the outputs. Allows for very clean dubs of tapes, etc.
Good sound isn't cheap, but it's nice to have...
"Connect your DVD player via the S-video cable and Digital optical/coax cable to the AMPs inputs.
(Get good quality cables for this!)"
Okay, so I possibly understand your reasoning about the S-video cable, but high quality coax/optical cables won't make any difference. These are digital signals - either the bits get there or they don't. The sound doesn't change unless you start dropping bits. If you're dropping some bits here and there, then you'll be able to hear that for sure.
(make sure all the speaker cables are the same legth.).
This is good advice - especially in a surround setup.
I like most everything Sony makes other than their audio equipment. Why you ask do I not like sony audio equipment?
Lets start a list:
-My last Sony 5 disc CD changer died... and manged to munch some of my CD's in the process.
-Three of the people I know have had problems with their car stereo head units overheating (we installed a 3" fan in one friends dashboard blowing across the heatsink because it would overheat after an hour or two of play)
- My last Sony receiver snapped and crackled on a fairly regular basis while it was playing and also had a warm up time where it made odd whining sounds until it was completely warmed up. This also happened to another one of my friends.
So on and so forth.. I have had nothing but bad luck with Sony audio equipment. I like the rest of their stuff but the audio equipment is now off limits.
Suggested brands?
Pioneer - I've had alright luck with, some good, some bad experiences.
Yamaha - Always a good experience. I love Yamaha equipment.
Denon - Same as Yamaha and in many cases slightly cheaper.
Overall I would say to go out to local stores and listen to different systems and different speakers. Pick the ones that sound best to you. Last time I was shopping I relied a lot on peoples input on the Internet for different brands (I would take the model number, type it into a search engine and see what all came up and what people had to say about it).
I see that some people already mentioned the importance of speakers. Speakers are one of the most critical parts so make sure to get ones that sound good. Another suggestion to accent the low end is to get a subwoofer. I've owned Klipsch and Velodyne subwoofers and have been happy with both. The Klipsch being the more budget minded subwoofer. Bose is a brand which I have had friends love, I like them but they are to expensive in my opinion.
If you have $1500 to spend I would allocate at least 60% to speakers/subs.
If you really want to keep it cheap and don't care much about look then shop around for old 1970's floor speakers. I tried many brands but the only thing I use newer speakers for is surrounds etc.. My two main pairs are actually speakers found at garage sales that were made during the 1970's. They sound awesome and were very economical to purchase.
Too true, use headphones for extended periods of time if you think hearing aids are a fashion statement.
- sigs are for wimps.
For a receiver, Yamaha is without a doubt the best in that price range. Get one with pre-amp outputs and you can add an external amplifier later, when budget allows.
Speakers are what really makes the difference though. Stay away from Bose. I don't know why people think they're so good. They must not have heard quality speakers before. Personally, I have Energy speakers in my theater. They're an older series though, not available anymore. I don't find their new speakers as pleasing to listen to. You'll need to decide if it's going to be only a theater or a theater/audio room. If I was going for a strictly theater setup, I would look into Definitive Technology speakers. They're not cheap, but speakers is where you want to put your money. When Super Dolby Digital 20.5 or whatever comes out, you'll toss the receiver, but keep the speakers.
A sub is VERY important for a theater. You could spend a ton of money on a Velodyne, but it would be money wasted. The absolute best sub for the money, or for 5 times the money for that matter, is a Hsu Research http://www.hsuresearch.com Anybody that tells you to buy another sub hasn't listened to a Hsu. I'm using a Hsu TN1220HO right now and it is simply amazing. Visit http://www.audioreview.com and check the ratings for the Hsu subs. Last time I checked, they were perfect 5.00s across the board.
Bose are NOT good speakers. that is the reason that bose always requires a seperate listening room - so that you cannot compare their speakers side by side with other brands.
Personally I am loving my Klipsch speakers. Really good for any music that runs into a harsher sound (NIN, Rage, Tool).
Your best bet is to go to SoundTrack (No, not best buy, no not circuit city, soundtrack). They are the only company I know of that have the quality speakers. Consumer speakers you find at best buy et al. are crap compared the the brands you see at Soundtrack.
interestingly - you almost cannot even find the same brands between the two places. The high end of the stuff at best buy is ower then the low end at soundtrack.
- The unexamined life is not worth leading -
This Christmas, I gave my parents a DeskTop Theater 5.1 DTT2500 Digital from Cambridge Soundworks. Although it is intended as a sound system for a computer, it works very well as a home theater system.
What impresses me the most about this system is the number of inputs that are available and the fact that everything you need to set it up is included in the box.
The sound quality for such an inexpensive system is very good. I am building my own home theater setup in the very near future and I plan to buy one of these systems for myself. For those that are interested, I already have a Sony DVP-S360 DVD Player and I am planning to add the Sony KV-32FV26 32" Direct View television and the JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS HiFi VCR.
i agree. i only own kenwood audio products in both my apt and my car. i've got one of their mid-level recievers and it kicks ass.
i also have their cool 200 disc cd changer (cd-425m) w/ the serial link in the back to allow cddb lookup via the internet. started working on a linux program to interface w/ it, but i haven't had much time for it lately. hopefully soon tho.
it's a pain in the ass having to figure out serial dumps.
-Jae
umm - i was only stating that i have their products in my car and my apt. the rest of the post was about my home audio equipment.
perhaps i should have specified that or i fell victom to trolling.
-Jae
Both me, and two of my friends have been very happy with out NAD T760 surround receivers. It has a huge number of inputs (including 3 digital inputs), supports both DTS and Dolby Digital, sounds good (to our ears, at least), and combined with a NAD T218THX power amplifier, it really rocks.
/Styx
Let's see... My more or less high fidelity system (sounds exceptionally good to my ears).
;-).
:-)
;-)
;-)
Marantz Sr-7000 receiver - $700 or so, I forget what I paid for it
4x Paradigm Atom - roughly $400
Paradigm CC170 center channel - matches atoms - $200
Definitive Technology ProSub 80 - powered sub 8" - $350
Speaker stands (extremely important if you want to _really_ hear your atoms) - $140 for set of 2.
Let me tell you why, after I added speaker stands with spikes, I was wondering why my sub was below its usual volume. It turns out that I forgot to turn it on
Lots of flat Luna speaker cable - free
So there you have it... 5 speakers + decent subwoofer alone are about $1000 with taxes.
$700 for the receiver.
$1700 so far
Please do NOT skimp on the receiver. If you like your music and home theatre, you don't want anything under $500.
The SR-7000 is perfect for my needs and comes with ample connectivity options. I currently have 2 DVD players, VCR, and a Playstation connected and have been able to connect an extra VCR and still had room left for more connections.
Add speaker stands and other stuff like cables, interconnects, and other stuff and you will be in $2000 territory. You will want higher end interconnects, because at this price level of equipment they will make a difference that you can hear.
If you are in the Bay Area, I highly recommend Bay Area Audio. Their website sucks, their prices are higher than on eBay, but you'll love the service. I have shopped there many times, and they didn't skimp when I said I didn't want a $20,000 system but wanted to experience it. Some day I'll buy it
Now as to how it sounds...
5-Stereo mode is my favorite when listening to CDs. My CD transport is Marantz DV-3100 DVD player. If you have heard the 5-stereo or matrix mode on cheap junk, you will wonder why. Try it out on the SR-7000 and you'll hear!
Listening to my music is literally concert-level experience, especially with my DJ lights. I am sure my neighbors love it
I prefer watching my DVDs to going to the movies. Just wait until I get my DVD projector! Yes, the sound can be that good.
Make very sure you position the speaker optimally. Best way to do it, in my experience, is to use the THX setup portion of Disney's Fantasia 2000.
Oh, and listen to that DVD and adjust the SR-7000 along the way for speaker delays and room size. It helps to go to listen to a live show in a symphony hall just before that so you have a fresh impression what the system is supposed to sound like.
Now, if you want to show off the system, check out something like "Tomorrow never dies" and "Saving Private Ryan" (perhaps in DTS mode).
You will find yourself covering your eyes and dodging bullets.
This is quite possibly best system you can own under $2000. Caution, after having a setup like this, you will find yourself dissatisfied with most audio equipment below this price level.
Take my car for instance, it has a top of the line DiamondAudio HEX 600S set, a PPI PowerClass 6600.2 amplifier, a JL 12W3 subwoofer, and Sony Mobile ES 7850 CD player with Sony CDX-737 CD changer. That sounds more or less comparable to my home system now.
I recently rented a car, and it was impossible to listen to.
My e-mail address is valid if you have more questions.
--
Leonid S. Knyshov
Leonid S. Knyshov
Find me on Quora
Dissenter
Dissenter
"There is no knowledge that is not power."
As far as audio goes, I highly recommend PSB speakers. My focus when building a home theatre was getting a sound system that would power the best scenes from my favorite DVDs, but would also appeal to my rather picky ears in terms of musical quality. The PSB's are hands down the best in their price range. (and audioreview.com agrees with me =) The combination of PSB Alpha A/V's in the front, a PSB Alpha center, PSB Alpha Mini's in the rear, and a PSB Subsonic or Subzero sub will give you the best sounding system at the $1000 price-point. These speakers are best known for their purity and imaging, and having listened to many systems before making my purchase I have to agree with the reviewers when they say that these speakers (at $250 a pair for the A/V fronts) rival speakers costing $2000 a pair.
As for an amp/AV reciever, I chose the Denon 2801. Again, after having listened to a bunch of different receivers, and reading a bunch of reviews on the net, I chose the Denon because of its great warm sound, reasonable price (~600), high power (90watts per channel), and incredibly good circuitry (there is absolutely NO hiss output, even with no signal and the volume turned up ALL the way.)
With the full set of PSB's and a Denon 2801 receiver, you will land right around your $1500 mark, and you'll have a system that not only sounds beautiful when rendering music CD's, but also shakes the walls while watching Fight Club. =)
paulb
Paul Bettner
Game Developer et al
I'v been holding out for a couple of years (cause I'm a cheap SOB) and finally got around to setting up a nice entry-level system
Cambridge Soundworks New Ensemble III Speakers = $299
A Sony STR-DE445 Reciver = $236
A Sony DVD = approx $250
A Pair of CSW Models Sixes I had. = $179
For the money I think it sounds great.
The one thing I did learn is that is makes a great deal of difference how you connect your DVD and Tuner. Even at the low end (like mine!) the tuners and dvds have coax digital. this is much preferable to the 5.1 input.
Good Luck!
When I heard that Sony was shipping 1/2 as many PS2s as planned for X-Mas I decided that I was going to have to buy a DVD player and stop watching movies on the computer. I did try one of the X10 DVD-Anywhere kits which was interesting, but...
So I started looking at players planning to spend about $150 and noticed that you can't get DTS at that price point. I started browsing the auctions and found an Onkyo DR90 at UBID.com for $349. It actually is a DTS Receiver/Amp with the DVD player built-in. I wanted a set of 5.1 speakers to go with it and UBID was selling the Warfedale Movie Modus 5 system for about $149. I'd never heard of Warfedale before but I figured the price was right. I was quite pleased with what I got. The Onkyo DR90 automatically selects the best settings for the DVD you are playing and the Warfedales are at least competent. The system may not be earth-shattering but for less than $500 I've been quite happy.
NOTE: The one feature this system lacks that will cause me to replace it all in a year or two is progressive scan. I never noticed how bad the interlacing problems were on DVD when I was playing movies on my computer!
For higher end stuff, you might check out Klipsch speakers and McIntosh amplifiers. No, these aren't related to Macintosh computers so you'd be safe from contamination.
The Digital Theater is a good place to read up on A/V equipment.
I drank what? -- Socrates
does overly expensive cabling actually sound better for short distance wiring?
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
Find an audio engineer and a few CD's that you know well and shop with your ears. Speakers are manufactured by a number of differend companies and are bought by companies who brand them. Sometimes obscure names are far better than the big names. Often the big names (Bose) sound sloppy & flat.
Studio speakers tend to sound flat across all frequencies. This is nice for mixing but don't sound very rich in the home.
You absolutely need an active subwoofer. The passive ones sound blurry.
-Scott scott@surrealistic.org
- Sony KV32DS60 IDO 100Hz TV. I couldn't afford 36", but got the best 32" around. Integrated digital TV decoder (not sure how relevent this is in the US, but it's great to have crystal-clear broadcast terrestrial TV in the UK), 100Hz refresh, etc etc etc. Back-projection stuff's field of view didn't impress me, plasma was waaaaay too expensive, and video projection is pretty unwatchable if you (or your family) ever want to have a decent level of light in the same room.
- Sony STR-DB930 home cinema amp. Full dolby 5.1 / mpeg / ac3 / pcm / blah blah decoding, tuner, loads of inputs, switches video as well as audio if you want it to, loads of outputs, EG you can have 2 sets of front speakers and switch between A, B, or A+B, and there's an output for a "slave amp" in another room, which I've been meaning to use. At the time, this was the "best amp you could get for under 1000UKP", even though it was actually less than UKP500. It's now been superceeded by the STR-DB940, I think.
- Sony DVP-CX850D, 200 disc CD / DVD audio/visual jukebox. It's cool to be able to select anything from your entire CD / DVD collection without getting off the couch. If 200 isn't enough, there's now a 300-disc version, and/or you can daisy-chain more 200 or 300 CD, or CD+DVD carousels.
- Sony SLV-SF90 VHS VCR. Yes, VHS is crap, but if you're going to use it, you could at least use it in a really cool way. This VCR has "SmartFile", which means you slap a special (though expensive) label on the spine of the tape, and it'll record programme details on a chip in the label. Record something with VidepPlus+, manual timer, or even just pressing "REC", and it'll get the name of the programme off of teletext, and store it on the chip. Later, when you're hunting for a particular programme, you wave the tape in front of the machine, and it pops up a list of what's on that tape. Wrong tape? wave another one at it. Found the programme? pop the tape in, select it off the menu, and it'll FF/RW to the right place on the tape for you. It's about as good as you can get with VHS, the only real alternative being something like TiVO, I guess.
- Mission Cinema "6-pack" of speakers. Just about the only thing I've got that's not Sony, because sony's speakers don't exactly win (m)any awards. The Mission set are very nice speakers, again basically "best you could get for under UKP1000", again actually less than UKP500. Handles the whole audio spectrum very nicely, and the sub is fantastic - you just gotta have respect for a speaker that needs it's own mains supply! I never used to appreciate bass very much, but this has definitely converted me!
- Cables - the digital interconnects are just co-ax, because I spare cables around... anyway, if you've already got 0% error rate, anyone who tells you that "fibre digital interconnects sound better" is kidding you, or an idiot, or both.
- The speaker cable, I can't tell the difference between "oxygen-free" and all that expensive lark, but on the other hand, I'm not going to use "Bell wire" either. I bought a reel of fairly good, well-made, unbranded 49-strand stuff.
- Phono, RGB, etc, I've gone for fairly well screened stuff, and tried to go with gold-plated connectors if/when I can afford them, and where they're realistic. VHS is dreadfully low-quality anyway, so I've probably got my cheapest SCART lead there, probably the one that came with it... though at least I'm not going to ruin it any more by going via UHF.
Think that's it. Buying all one brand helps with the remote control compatibility, though eventually you might opt for something like a Pronto remote anyway. Having access to a Sony staff discount helps a lot, too, though to be honest I'd probably have brought the same, or very similar kit anyway, just paid a lot more for it.Now, how are they going to moderate all the "this is what I've got and it's cool" posts? :-)
Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
2 - think speakers first. Go listen to them. Find a good Brick and Mortar store. Take your time. Buy there and you'll benefit a lot in long term (upgrades, demos, etc.)
3 - room acoustics is a BIG factor.
I have a Denon receiver (2800) and Paradigm speakers (being canadian, i could get them cheap).
---------- ovidius naso
I have a Pioneer DV-525 DVD player, and then for a receiver I have a Pioneer VSX-D607S receiver. The receiver was $300, but I got it off of eBay for about $220, and it does Dolby Digital. I wish it had DTS and S-Video in, but I can live without both.
Speaker set up is all-Polk Audio. I have 4 RT15s for Left, Right, Left Surround, and Right Surround. Each pair cost $200, so $400 total for those 4 speakers. For a center channel, I opted for the Polk CS245, which sounds a lot better than the next lower model (can't remember the number off-hand); I bought it for $250. By far, the most expensive speaker was the sub, and I bought a Polk PSW140, which has a 190-watt amp, and a 10" downfiring driver. It sits there pretty in the corner just waiting to attack. It was $450.
Total speaker price was $1100. It's not a big system, but it can get loud, and because it's all of the same manufacturer, the tonal characteristics all match up, and it's sounds even.
So as you can see, I spent $1320 for a decent sounding apartment system.
--Bernie
The DVP-S560D doesn't appear to have zoom, according to the Crutchfield site. Heck, I have a Philips DVD-711, and it even has zoom, for $100 less.
They left out the 5.1 decode in favor of a co-Axial and optical out, as well as two sets of RCA jacks. I really won't miss the built-in decoder, since all it does is add cost for something you can do better externally. It also has RGB three-channel video output, as well as S-Video. It's a rather nice piece of hardware.
Lowmag.net
I think the RGB inputs are more common than you think. These connectors are on about every plasma 40" model out there, as well as most LCD projection screens. The reason to me seems logical for the LCD: they have three individual screens driven by three full-bandwidth signals. I think that would be reason enough. This type of Rgb connection is pretty recent, and is pretty much a strict high-end system issue. Still, it's nice to have..
Lowmag.net
It's easily hackable to release the codes for international decoding, and I still can't see the point of an appliance that overlaps my computer's ability to play vcds..
Lowmag.net
I put together a decent system for just under $1500 with a Yamaha entry level AC-3 receiver and all Klipsch speakers. The satellites are 1.1s with the matching center channel speaker and a 120 watt subwoofer.
I think this system sounds great for music and home theater. I have my DVD wired in with a coaxial AC-3 connection. The guy at the stereo store said coax works better than optical. I haven't tried the optical connection so I don't really know.
Anyway, you can't beat Yamaha for price/performance. The Klipsch speakers weren't outrageously expensive either. I considered Infinity speakers but the ones I wanted were out of my price range.
Oh, and use good speaker wire. I used Monster Cable for the speakers and all the A/V connections. You could go to Radio Shack and just buy some heavy guage wire for the speakers instead of getting the Monster stuff but don't skimp here, it's a relatively cheap thing to do that can really improve the sound.
A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
Well, since you're going for "bang for your buck", here are my personal recommendations:
Receiver: Low-end ES Receiver (V333/V444). Note that the V444 has component inputs, which can be handy - however, your TV (if, like mine, is the 36XBR400 HDTV, has 2 component inputs already)
Speakers are largely a personal matter. For your price range, I recommend the Boston Acoustics Reference Series. (Like the Reference 9000s). Great 5.1 sound for an effective price.
I chose the Energy Take 5's as my speaker setup because of their clear, full sound, their size, and their price.
Take 5 Info:
Home Theatre Forum Take 5 Info
Audio Review Take 5 Information
I chose the DB 940 because many of my coworkers love the 930, and the 940 is the newer model.
Sony DB 940 Info:
Audio Review DB 940 Info
I'm very happy with my setup. It sounds better than a Denon/Paradigm setup that cost over $1000 more (college buddy tried to outdo my setup but failed).
I also have the 36" Sony WEGA. Pretty phat.
Don't forget the need for quality cables. They don't come cheap.
Bottom line, just read the reviews at web sites. You'll quickly get an idea of what's good and what's overpriced crap. Bose, for instance...
-LB
You should check out Pionneer for the amp, but the speakers is the number one consideration, and will cost you the most.
I'd say PSB or Paradigm.....Sony even sells PSB, due to the quality, they're not cheap!
Within that price range, there are a number of good quality receivers. Marantz, NAD, Yamaha. But if you need speakers as well, stick to a higher low-end receiver like a Yamaha 5250 and get some medium quality speakers, such as Bose, or a personal favorite, Mission.
$1500 for an entire surround system will get you something "okay", but not terribly high-end.
Adcom is unbeatable for quality/price. I'm partial to Polk speakers, but I've also enjoyed my B&W's
quis fimum scribit?
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I was pontificating for the benefit of the tin-eared masses. :-)
apologies to you
-5 to my karma
While it's only tangentially related, www.pcabx.com provides tools and audio training material
- AlanH
Get a sunfire Cinema Grand Signature - 3750
a sunfire Cinema Theatre II preamp - 3495
http://www.sunfire.com/
And a set of B&W 800 series speakers - the rest
http://www.bwspeakers.com/
Ahhh
For around $500 you can get a Sony DB-840 Receiver. It has dolby digital and dts built in.
lots of inputs (optical included).
It borrow much of the same hardware from the higher end ES series and feels much more sturdy than the DE (economy series receivers).
I just got one 2 days ago, really good sound for a reasonable price.
Then, you can spend the other $1,000 on nice speakers...
The home theater forum has all kinds of info on Home theater type stuff. It's at http://www.hometheaterforum.com
You need 1.3 tons of speakers. They're only $130,000 and your specialized listening room can be as small as 15'x20'! Check 'em out here. Everyone can afford a pair of these. I'm surprised I haven't seen them in the ghetto yet! ;)
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US
You might want the Curcio mod on the ST70s.
http://www.curcioaudio.com
The best possible thing you can ever do for your hard earned money when purchasing audio equiptment is to get yourself out of your house and into a store that will let you audition every piece of equiptment in your price range in any configuration.
Have your sales person hook up their most sonically neutral sounding receiver to the speakers you want to hear. You will then be able to determine how the speakers perform. If you leave the volume at the same level for all speakers, you will hear which spekers are more efficient (they will be louder), which ones are brighter (they will have more treble), which ones are warmer (they will have more midrange and bass), and which ones are more neutral (no augmentation of either high, mid or low). Now you can make a speaker decision based on *your* preferences. And since you are the one spending the money, you being happy with your purchase is all that matters!
Now, as for my tastes, I prefer very neutral sounding speakers and receivers. My latest home theater purchase included all Paradigm speakers. Monitor 7's in the front, Mini-Monitor's in the rear, the CC-350 center channel and the PW-2200 subwoofer. Paradigm is a well respeced brand in the home theater arena for their incredible price/performance.
My receiver choice was the Integra DTR-7.1. Integra is Onkyo's mid-end line of equiptment. This receiver was chosen for its very neutral sounding output, its ability to decode DTS, DTS ES (new 6.1 encoding format)Dolby Digital, and Dolby Digital EX (new 6.1 encoding format).
If you are interested in reading other consumers revies on equiptment, check out Audio Review. You will find many reviews on nearly every piece of equiptment you are looking at.
Happy Home Theater Hunting!
Sincerely,
Robert J. Casey Jr.
I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago, when I purchased a DVD player (Sony DVP-S550D). The old Dolby Pro Logic receiver wouldn't cut it anymore. After doing some research, I opted to go with the Sony STR-DE 935, and ordered it from a mail order place. Since this model was just comming onto the market, the retailer did not have them in stock and mine was placed on backorder.
About that time I discovered AudioReview.com and found this site to be immensely helpful. I quickly canceled my DE935 order, and ordered the Sony STR-DB930 from another dealer. The receivers were very similar feature-for-feature, yet the DB series is much better than the DE series. It is only sold through Sony ES dealers (so you won't be able to find it at Best Buy or C.C.) and is built from higher quality components, using the frame/beam construction of the ES products. Though the DB935 and DE930 are both rated at 100W / channel, closer examination of the specs (THD) reveals that the DB has really a much more powerful amp. The DB930 has now been replaced by DB935 which appears to be very similar, except for some cosmetic changes. Overall, I'd highly recommend the Sony STR-DB930/935. In the price/performance dept. it can't be beat; it's like getting a Sony ES receiver for nearly the DE level price.
I'd also like to add my voice to those who mentioned not to be conned into buying Bose stuff. It sounds fine in the store, but most people that get it home are usually disappointed with the performance after a few months.
What is wrong with Bose is that the treble is screechy and harsh, the midrange is flat and lifeless, and the bass is flabby and distorted (and doesn't go veyr low in any case). Unless you are stone deaf you will be able to hear the crapness of a Bose system the instant you get the chance to compare it with some decent hardware.
But hey, you asked the question, right? I personally use my normal stereo amps and speakers for the front left and right. They are a Musical Fidelity X-P100 preamp, Musical Fidelity X-AS100 power amp (2 channels, 100Watts/channel), and Ruark Talisman II speakers. That's all British kit, and it cost ~$4000.
For the Processor and the remaining 3 channels of amplification I use a Yamaha DSP-A5 (~$450). This is simply a great machine: it does everything you could want and does it *well*, with great effects steering, lots of power, superb clarity, and loads of fun geeky settings to tweak (i.e. individual delay and level controls for each speaker, etc).
For the centre speaker, a Tannoy mXc1 (~$175), and for the rears some cute bipolars from Eltax (~$250). I really recommend bipolar rear speakers for convincing surrond effects.
And finally the sub. I run a sub for stereo anyway, and it's a REL Q100E. Really, nobody but REL makes subs quite right, so just get one of theirs, even if they are pricey - mine is next to the bottom of the range and it's ~$800, but it's worth every penny. For movies the LFE output goes to the L+R front channels and the sub takes care of the really low end. I can do this because the Ruarks are quite happy to receive the signal as they go down to ~40Hz themselves.
So there you have it. That's my take on a moderately decent hi fi with budget surround sound added in.
For your setup, the V596 will have plenty of capacity, and for my own setup, just barely scrapes by, with only the AUX input on the front left unused.
I have the following hooked up: An RCA 32" TV (S-video and composite video inputs from receiver), a Panasonic A-120 DVD player (optical digital out, S-video out), a cheap VCR (RCA audio, composite video in and out), a digital cable box (composite video, RCA audio out, S-video out, Coax digital audio out), a Sony Playstation, and my Sony 300-CD changer).
I still have room for any device using RCA audio and S-Video or composite video, and a tape deck or MD deck, and a turntable.
The higher models have more inputs, the lower fewer.
The receiver has DTS, Dobly digital, and an external decoder hookup.
Agreed. The C340 is what I have powering my NAD C540 CD player. Paired with some Paradigm Monitor 3s this makes a great CD system. Tie it all together with AudioQuest Coral interconnects and New Type 4 speaker wire. There are great offerings in the A/V receiver area as well, or so http://audioreview.com says.
I wonder if this will degenerate into the usual audiophile pissing contest?
DataSquid.net, a little about me.
Bose really stink for their price. Getting a similar prices system from Paradigm, NHT or Energy will sound alot better than a Bose System. If you don't have much space and want a smaller speaker check out the Energy Encore system. It'll be under $1500 and sounds great. If you have a bit more room check out the Monitor series from Paradigm. Just head out to your local home theater store (NOT Best Buy or other like stores) and listen to different sets with music and movies you like.
I'm going through this right now, so I can tell you that this is the best I could come up with a $10,000 budget:
:)
Toshiba 65H80 65" Widescreen HDTV
Onkyo TX-DS989 THX Ultra Certified THX EX, DTS, DD 5.1, Upgradable receiver
Sony DVP-9000ES DVD / SACD player
Paradigm Monitor 7 front speakers, 370-series center and surrounds, and PW-2200 subwoofer.
Comes in a hair under $10K!
I can't wait until it all gets here
get nemulator
Guess this is a "ditto". I picked up a nice Kenwood receiver for ~$400 about a year ago, and it's got optical inputs as well as video/S-Video for all my A/V stuff.. not bad for the price, supports 5.1 positional, of course :)
That's not loads to work with for a 5-channel audiophile A/V system. Heck, you won't get much change from 4 PSB Alpha's and a decent sub.
Bottom line for you would be to go to your nearest audio/video mart, see what's in your price range, and give them a listen. If you like one, that's all that matters.
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
Make sure everything supports DTS. The difference in quality between Dolby Digital and DTS is pretty amazing. DTS is just really cool.
- Someday the voices will stop, and I'll be able to rest...Someday -
It may sound like stupid, obvious advice, but for the amount of money that you want to spend, you're not going to go into the super high end range of things. For that reason, I would find a nice reciever that you like that has all the bells and whistles that you're interested in, and then go out and listen to some speakers. If you find some that sound good, buy them. While this may seem obvious, most people have trouble accepting that you're (most likely) not going to be able to tell the difference between a $500 and $2000 pair of speakers.
My advice is to go out to a good (i.e. not Circuit City, Good Guys, etc.) stereo store and ask them to recommend some good speakers for you in your price range.
I couldn't tell if you were experimenting with poor-man's cryogenics or looking for the orange sherbet.
Mine is the computer that I am currently using.
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
When I sold audio in a mom-and-pop hi-fi place back in the early 80's (the good old days before Circus-Shitty came to town), we used the same saying:
"No highs, no lows, must be Bose."
The old timers then had been saying that since the 70's...
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
Since as everyone agrees sound quality is dependent on the listener I have a couple of important points to make.
First bring your own CD's if you are buying a system to listen to music on, Movies if your buying a home theater or both if you want a system to do both. Bring only CD's you have heard 20 times and are intimately familiar with. This sort of makes your existing system your a reference point. When you are listening to your music on a new set of speakers you will notice things about the music rather than the music. Bring your existing speakers into the store to compare in the same room as the new ones. The other choice is to pick a store that will let you try a pair of speakers before you buy.
Secondly bring a dB meter. There have been a number of studies that have proven sound volume affects peoples perceptions of music reproduction quality more than any other variable. Set all the speakers so they are on equal volume footings, that way you won't pick the speaker that is just louder at a given setting on the amp the store is using.
Third remember that its not going to sound the same when you get it home. Try to identify how your room affects the sound and buy a system that corrects for these issues. Also try to make your own decisions about a brand or model rather than listening to some wanna be audiophile who probably could not pick his system in a blind test when its compared to 5 others. Don't think that price has anything to do with sound quality
Meridian gear is, IIRC. It comes from the UK, and is not the cheapest. They do lots of gear, and you can go digital all the way if you wish (they do digital amps, digital speakers). Check out their web site: www.meridian.co.uk
The mirage are really good. Get some of their floor standing bipolar speakers, and hook up to Musical Fidelity Amps. Magic. (MF do a great home theatre amp now). Although it does go somewhat over the $1500 limit :-(
A little while ago. On a similar budget I did a lot of looking around for a good solid amp and the best speakers for the money that I could find. One other constraint is that my wife does not like big ugly speakers (beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess :-).
I wanted a fairly future-resistant unit, and also wanted some good features. After hitting some of the online reviews sites, and just a buttload of research, I went with a technics amp (this was some time ago, so I think the model will have been updated, but technics do a range of class A amps with 6 channel direct input), and further for the speakers (the most important part) I selected the Mirage AVS 500 set.
The mirage AVS 500s (or the Energy Take 5's which are basically the same speaker) are just better sounding than the other speakers I heard with the same kind of form factor. They have a lovely neutral sound and good imaging. They can also bury 100 Watts each so you will have a tough time hurting them. There was little to choose between the Energy take 5's and the mirages, but in the end I went with the mirage because I liked the high frequency response better (a bit less in your face than the Energy's)
I suggest looking into the reviews sites out there and trying to match up what you want with products that generally review well. For example, ETown.com might be worth a look. The link is to the Energy take 5's, not the mirage in this case, but they are very very similar. Another review of the Energy's is here
Hope that all helps
QuaintRcky
It's hard to find Mirage at a good price, but I got both a good price and great service at Kief's Audio/Video (disclaimer: I don't have a financial stake in Kief's, just a satisfied customer).
BTW, I'm not anti-Klipsch - their higher end stuff sounds great. It's just that the ProMedia can't cut it next to offerings from Mirage, Energy or Atlantic Technology. OTOH, the ProMedias are the best PC speaker set out right now.
MY home theatre? Well, it's powered by two crappy little speakers I picked up at Wal-Mart for $20 six years ago, hooked up through a wild array of patch cables in order to bring stereo sound to my mono 14" tv. Now, the *family* home theatre has a real Sony dolby surround unit and KEF speakers. But my sister's usually got her ass planted so firmly on that couch that I choose to watch stuff in the comfortable surroundings of my room instead.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
which is what 1500 dollars is.... means I'd get paradigm speakers... no doubt about it.... you won't find many people who disagree with Paradigms value and sound in the audiophile community.
Unless you've got something against those crazy Canadians.
I've got a 3 tray JVC XV-M567 ($299) which has optical out and proprietary "compu-link" to my JVC RS-6008V which came in the DS-TP330 Home Theater package ($350). The speakers are not as small as the Bose system (read less quality), but what they lack in size and sound range, the 100 watt 12" powered sub woofer more than makes up for.
The compulink cord connecting the DVD to the receiver will surprise you, and it eliminates 3 of my remote controls with the DVD remote. Mine controls my Toshiba TV, my JVC DVD player, and most of the functions on my JVC amp (everything but "off", ironic..).
Anyway, I love the system. It's simple, the 3 DVD trays are more handy than you can imagine, and the sound is great for the price.
The DVD player has composite video out, S-Video, and normal video jacks, and fiber-optic audio, PCM (read one rca cable for dolby surround), and normal phono (rca) plugs for your regular everyday sound.
The receiver can control 5 video sources (two of which are VCR), it has plenty of sound switches, and it's got built in Dolby Digital and DTS surround decoding (which are two competing surround sound systems), so it works with every DVD that's out there, and then some.
It even looks cool. The DVD has a cool chrome finish, which got an ooh from some friends when they were visiting from out of town...
Save your money and get these two components. It's really worth it. Use the extra money and get yourself a Duron system for an MP3 player...
Mmmm, hi-fi. Early last year I set up an outrageous home theater for myself (I'm outraged I tell you) for not too much money and it's a deal at twice the price. I consider myself a bit of a geek (Ph.D. in Physics, currently working as a signal processing engineer for a major university) so I like to think that I have some clue. I took a little time to describe my decision making process carefully to help you on your journey. I apologize in advance for the long message but hopefully it is both instructive and interesting. Even with my nerd pedigree, I certainly could not have figured this all out by myself (mad props to my man Dr. Blount). As other have pointed out, there are many good resources on the net and many good audiophile books and magazines. Just ignore the hype and remember that it doesn't have to cost a fortune - if you can't HEAR the difference, you shouldn't SPEND the difference.
...
;-)
'Nuff said, here's what I've got
2 NHT SuperOnes for the front stereo channels
2 NHT SuperOne XUs for the rear surround channels
1 NHT VS-1.4 for the center channel
1 NHT SuperSub for the subwoofer
Onkyo Integra DTR-6 Home Theater Receiver
Pioneer DV-333 DVD player
Sega Dreamcast
Sharp SVHS VCR
Philips Magnavox TS3260 32" Television
Total Cost: Speakers ~$1600, Receiver ~$700, DVD ~$250, TV ~$600 (if I remember correctly
As numerous others have already pointed out, plan to spend the bulk of your money on speakers as they have the greatest single impact on sound quality. Although some people mix and match speaker brands in a 5.1 system, I think it is best to go with a single brand because the speakers will often be better matched sonically. Nothing is more distracting than a single speaker, your center channel for example, sticking out like a sore thumb. I chose the NHTs for a variety of reasons. Foremost, I like the sound. NHT is very well respected even at the highest end of the audiophile spectrum and they have a good reputation for building solid products that last. NHT prides itself on very low phase noise in their speakers which produces more accurate imaging - especially important in a 5.1 system. Another reason for choosing the NHTs is that they have a very nice selection of speakers at several price points with similar characteristics thereby providing a simple upgrade path. I personally plan on replacing the front stereo channels in the near future with the next tier VT-1.4s and moving the SuperOnes to my bedroom system (more on that later). I chose the SuperOnes over the less expensive SuperZeroes because of their better bass extension - I didn't want to be overly reliant on my subwoofer for bass and, because of low frequency room modes, more spatially distributed bass sounds better to me. I chose the SuperOne XUs for the rear channel because their stiffer resin enclosures sound cleaner when mounted directly on the rear wall (the front channels are mounted on stands about 18" away from the front wall). I chose the slightly better VS-1.4 for the center channel, over the SuperCenter, because I find that I need extra clarity in the center channel to understand speech - this was the only speaker I chose to go the the higher tier 1.4 series at this time. I went with the entry-level SuperSub because, in my apartment, I don't need any more bass power and the dual 6" drivers produce bass extension (almost) below what I can hear. In retrospect, this is the only purchase I am not ecstatic with because the amplifier in the subwoofer burned out in the first 6 months I had the system. Although it was replaced free of charge under the standard 5 year warranty, it was a hassle. Aside from that, everything has performed magnificently and I couldn't be happier.
I chose to go with an integrated receiver, rather than components, mainly because of cost. Ultimately, I'd like to have each function in its own box because of the upgrade flexibility it provides but it just wasn't possible at the time. However, the DTR-6's I/O allows a very flexible upgrade path to get me to my ultimate goal (more later). Integra is Onkyo's audiophile line and is essentially the same in design as the top of their consumer line but with hand-matched components - and it really does sound better. It provides 85W/channel (5.1) into 8 ohms which is more than enough in my space (although the SuperOnes can take up to 150W and the subwoofer has its own integrated amplifier). It provides inputs for all the usual devices - CD, DVD, tape, phono (w/ ext. pre-amp) as well as 4 general purpose AV inputs which I use for my cable tuner (pass through my TV), VCR and Dreamcast (sounds great through the stereo - Soul Calibur rocks!). I am setting up an MP3 jukebox for the fourth channel. I use the Toslink connector (optical digital) for the audio from my DVD (which I also use for CDs) but rely of the receiver to do the digital decoding (DTS, Dolby Digital & 24bit/96kHz PCM). I think it sounds better but I can't be sure if its due to better DACs or to a cleaner signal path between the decoder and the pre-amp/amp - let your ears be your guide! A nice feature of the receiver is that you can set the phase (in units of distance) and gain (in dB) for each channel independently which make balancing a breeze (most good receivers will support this). I try to use the S-video connectors whenever possible - only the Dreamcast doesn't support it. The DVD player supports component (not to be confused with composite) video, which is nice, but my TV doesn't support it. The receiver also has a couple of nice features that facilitate my upgrade plans down the line. First, there is a second set of outputs (B channel) so that when I upgrade my front channels, I can move my current fronts down to my bedroom and drive them with the same receiver (there's even a remote control extender for the receiver). Second, there is a full set of pre-amp outputs so I can add a separate amplifier (like a sweet 5 channel Bryston or maybe 5 McIntosh monoblocks). The next step up in Integra home theater receivers, the DTR-7, also has an amplifier input which I would have liked because then I can run the pre-amp out to my subwoofer and run the line level signal just past the subwoofers crossover filter back to the amp input on the receiver. This gives you better control over the system's bass response. Unfortunately, the DTR-7 is THX certified which makes it significantly more expensive. I don't have anything against THX, in fact it's awesome, but the certification process is quite expensive and drives up the price of the component. Oftentimes, manufacturers will sell 2 receivers which are essentially the same except one is THX certified and, therefore, significantly more expensive - the DTR-6 & 7 are perfect examples of this.
The rest of the system is pretty mundane. I didn't sweat the DVD player too much because I knew I was going to use it only as a transport so all I needed to do was make sure it has sufficiently low jitter on its digital output (it does). The VCR was a gift so it is pretty vanilla - which is okay because I can't get too excited about VHS (even SVHS). The Dreamcast is cool and it admirably filled the void while the world waited (waits) for the PS2 vaporware to condense. The TV is nice but nothing special. I just wanted something that had multiple S-video inputs, dark blacks & a good color decoder (most consumer grade TVs have a lot of red "push"). I would have liked to get a flat screen CRT like the Sony Vega but I couldn't justify the price while I wait (impatiently) for HDTV to get its act together. So, in a sense, the TV is kind of a stopgap measure. As I mentioned earlier, I am putting together an MP3 jukebox for the system. I am assembling the PC myself in a rackmount chassis that I will mount in a small black laminate rack (8 or 12 U) along with an AC line conditioner for the whole system and a UPS for the PC. I am currently having a hard time finding the right sound card though. I only want to use a card with a low jitter optical (Toslink) digital out so I can use my receiver for decoding but I'd like it to also support wavetable synthesis so I can hear MIDI from games without needing another soundcard as well. The consumer grade cards like those from Turtle Beach support DTS & MIDI on separate digital outputs while the pro grade cards like those from Digital Audio Labs don't support MIDI at all. I am open to suggestions. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
On a final note, setup and accessories are not to be overlooked. Buy nice 12 gauge speaker wire which can run you on the order of $100 to wire a medium size room (damn, those rear channels are far away). I don't feel the need for anything fancier than that. You'll also need a special cable for the powered subwoofer (another ~$30). I recommend getting wire yokes (like dual bananas) for the end of the speaker wire as they speed disassembly & reassembly of the system if, for example, you move. Some purists may argue that this degrades the sound but I can't hear it (not to say that it isn't there). I also find a test DVD and a sound meter very helpful for calibration. I have the AVIA calibration disk (~$20) which is nice as it includes a full suite of audio test tones and video patterns. Watch out for the Plughe (sp?) disks as they use blacker-than-black in some of their video tests which not all DVD players support. The sound meter is an el cheapo model from Radio Shack (~$35) but gets the job done (and the AVIA disk explains how to use it properly). It would be nice to use an oscilloscope and an arbitrary waveform generator for calibration (prohibitively expensive unless you can borrow them from work) but it's just too much of a burden considering you'll need to recalibrate several times in the first year as your speakers break in and it really doesn't pay off unless you have a multichannel equalizer in your system. On the issue of speaker "break-in", plan on playing music constantly on the system for at least the first 24-72 hours (no I'm serious, it really does help). Last, but not least, plan to work on your setting up your system for at least one whole day (it took me two) and make sure that you have at least a case of beer on hand (it took me two). With a little care, your system will sound as good, if not considerably better, than your local movie theater - and without the bad projectionists, whiney brats and sticky floors (YMMV). In fact, I NEVER go to the cinema any more because it is always such a disappointment (and I like near one of those space-age gigaplexes). For pure chewing satisfaction, I recommend using Netflix for online DVD rental - fixed fee, rent all you want, no late fees (check it out).
Good luck! Soon you too can have the rowdiest home theater in the universe!
For the price range you're talking about, I'd check out Sony. Some of their higher-end receivers have some pretty nice features and sound great. The nice thing about Sony is they're heavily into the whole DSP thing, so their receivers come with 6 - 10 "idiot settings" whereby with a single button you can optimize the sound field for music, movies, etc. They usually work pretty well.
As far as speakers go, I'm from the old school. My setup is entirely Cambridge SoundWorks, but I absolutely detest the small satellite thingies that everyone is going nuts for now. I just think they sound like small, over-driven speakers. Using them with a subwoofer gives you great highs and lows, and no mids whatsoever. My setup is 6 Model 6's ($200 - $250 a pair), 2 model 17's ($100 - $150 a pair)for rear, a Center Stage center channel ($250 - $300), and a BassCube 12 ($350 - $450). The room I'm in is about 30' x 15'. It's absolutely unbeatable. I actually find the sound I get is often preferable that what I get at real movie theaters. If you do go for "larger" speakers, I'd recommend the highest-wattage amp you can afford. The power really helps improve clarity, even at lower volume levels.
All IMHO, of course...
I agree, speakers are extremely important. Disagree on your specific brand, but hey, it's a subjective thing.
One thing very often overlooked is POWER CONDITIONING. No, not the $30 power strip you bought at Home Depot. A real power CONDITIONER. Monster makes a pretty widely-acclaimed one for $200. It makes a huge difference, especially if, like me, you live in an area where the power supply can be less-than-stable.
I recently upgraded all my interconnects to Monster Cables, and I'd have to agree. The only exception I've seen is in S-Video cables. My Sony 550 DVD player had been hooked up with the thin factory cable. When I hooked up the Monster S-Video cable, YOWZA! Sharper picture, but most noticeable was the fact that the colors were suddenly MUCH brighter (I'm using a projection TV, so I'll take any help I can get with color brightness). The sound cables, looking back on it, weren't worth the $40 a pop.
I agree, there's the danger of frying equipment. But the conditioner part of the power conditioner will eliminate "noise" from the power supply. I happen to leave fairly close to a radio station, and knew I had interference occasionally on the telephone, but hadn't realized that I was actually getting some hissing through my speakers, which I can only assume was from the radio station. It was very subtle. I hadn't even noticed it until I installed the power conditioner. The "blank hum" you get when you first turn on your amp was completely gone. Pretty impressive difference for $200.
Haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, so I will.
A friend recommended I get the RX-8000VBK reciever/decoder/AVswitcher/amp with Dolby and DTS support. I bought one at Christmas to replace an aging and failing all-in-one stereo I had. 4 digital inputs (1 RCA, 3 optical) SVHS, nice DSP controls, several surround options, good power, nice UI. Highly recommended. Can be found as cheap as $280. I'm still looking for a good speaker system for it, but my living room is not real conducive to audiophile design anyway, so I may stick with my cheap stuff for now.
-- There is no truth. There is only Perception. To Percieve is to Exist.
1. It's quite overpriced. If you listen to their stuff and other mid-fi equipment, the comparable stuff costs 1/3 - 1/5 what the Bose equipment does.
2. It is not good at handling difference types of spaces -- like your living room. Talk to the guys at Best Buy or wherever Bose is sold -- they'll tell you that they have to bend over backwards to set up the demo system exactly according to the manufacturer's specifications. This isn't because Best Buy just wants it to sound good -- they have to sign a contract with Bose to be allowed to sell the Bose systems. There may be other stipulations to this contract, but I don't want to speculate.
That about sums it up.
Audiophiles tend to dislike Bose because the Bose selling philisophy doesn't jive at all with the audiophile buying philosophy. If I'm going to buy a component for my stereo, I want to do a lot of critical listening. I want to try out the component with a number of other ones (eventually with my own system, which I'll bring into the store). I want to listen to my own music on it.
They also dislike it for a foolish but understandible reason. Bose has done a good job with advertising and public relations, and so there is a mass public perception that Bose is good. People buy Bose systems and talk about their cool stereos. People with friends with Bose talk about their friend with the great stereo. This can be frustrating to the stereo geek who believes that his system sounds a lot better than a Bose (even a more expensive one). I know I've had to bit my tongue a couple of times when people have bragged about systems I've considered weak or cheesy.
For the other audiophiles out there, I've got:
* California Audio Labs Icon Mk II cd player
* Transparent Link 100 interconnects
* Creek 6060 integrated amp
* Tara Labs RSC Prime cable
* B&W DM302 loudspeakers (totally outclassed -- I've got my eye on some Vandersteens, but, alas, rent comes first, and since I burnt out on programming and became a cab driver, I'm not raking in the dough any more).
Anyway, hope that answers your questions.
-michael-
First of all, I should state for the record that I'm an avowed audiophile. My stereo is worth more than my car, and listening to music is a major passtime for me. Still, I think the same rules for a music system apply pretty well to a movie setup.
1. Listen to stuff. This may sound like a no brainer, but a lot of people seem to forget about it. Don't buy any system you don't have a chance to hear first. Bring a DVD along with you when you go shopping so you can see a movie you like on systems you're considering buying. If a store won't let you do this, run away.
2. Bring a notepad and write down your observations. It's hard to remember a bunch of systems and components at the end of a long day of listening.
3. Steer clear of Bose. Their stuff is way overpriced, and it doesn't hold up well to real world conditions (like your living room).
4. If you bring it home and it doesn't sound right, don't be afraid to return it.
5. There is probably a high end audio store somewhere near where you live. A shop like this will cater to the customer far more than Best Buy would; you can reasonably expect for a salesperson to spend an hour or two helping you find the right system for you.
6. Don't buy a great system and cripple it with bad cables. At your local high end store, get them to do a demo for you and show you how much difference good cables can make. (My speaker cables cost $250, and it was totally worth it.) Similarly, consider buying stands for your speakers if you go with a sub/monitor setup.
All that said, I'd suggest checking out Marantz for the amp and Klipsch for the speakers. I don't own any of that stuff (my amp is a Creek 6060 and my speakers B&Ws, and the cd player a Cal Icon, for anyone who cares), but the warm rich sound of a Marantz, along with a clear midrange (for voices) would be nice for a home theater system. Denon is also worth considering. Klipsch makes decent speakers that can be both loud and crisp; I've heard them do movies to good effect.
The important thing is how you go about buying your system. The key is how it sounds, not what the box says it does.
-michael-
Good call on the speakers, but I would go with Onkio for the receiver. Of course, he wants to keep it cheap. I was able to build a nice system for about $1500 (mostly stuff from uBid) using Infinity speakers. Of course I would have gotten a different TV. Bad thing is though, right now I have an InFocus LCD projector and da-lite screen. Nothing compares to 120 inches! (no, I am not a rich bastard with nothing better to do, I got the 6k projector for under 3k and it's still on my damn credit card) a pretty good system would be:
Reciever
left and right speakers + subs
rear speakers
center
Of course, you need to be sure and use Monster cable.
I am an audio buff, and the only real way to be satisfied is to go to a store that has listening rooms. Not a chain like best buy though, you want some place were they will set up systems they way you want for you to sample them. Then listen to some of the units that meet your specifications criteria and price range. Pick the unit and speakers that you think give the best sound combination. Just looking at specsk and prices will do nothing for you. Take for instance Boss, I cant find lots of speakers that sound better than Boss and cheaper but may not be as big of name or high of specs but they just sound better. Not to mention what sounds good to one person may not sound good to the next. So the best thing you can do for yourself is to just listen to the equiptment, this way you get what you want and what you like. Also dont let anyone say 'oh thats garbage you could get this for a better price and it sonds better' because thats bull, you got what you liked, and anyone who tells you that is a dolt. No 2 human ears are the same. mostly have fun, thats why they call it entertainment system!!
OK, it's about double your price point, but I don't believe you'll find better.
The Arcam DIVA components are awesome. The DV88 DVD player (about $1500), besides being one of the best DVD players bar none, also plays CDs with audiophile quality and MP3s from CDRW, and can be set to any region using the remote (although this is undocumented) - you can even select PAL or NTSC output. The AVR100 Receiver (about $1200)is an excellent Stereo/Dolby5.1 decoder and amp combo - too many features/inputs/outputs to describe here.
Both these components are DVD-Audio upgradable... the DV88 is HDCD-capable right now. The DV88 is also progressive-scan ugradable. The really nice thing about Arcam is that they make their products modular, and don't abandon older products.
See them here
Yes Speakers are subjective. I am suprised how many people dislike Bose. I like the sound from them but I do not have a trained ear. Perhaps I've been had by marketing .
As for power protection. Definitely buy something good. I had a cheap one once. I moved into a condo, plugged my amp in and heard a "pop" from inside. Blew the transformer because the previous owners had not closed the neutral when they took a light fixture with them. Cost me $150 to repair.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
I have the following: Marantz SR5000 Receiver
NHT 2.5 Front
NHT SuperOne Rear
NHT VC-1 Center
Harman/Kardon 8450 CD Player (Digital-Optical output)
Toshiba 2109 DVD Player
Sony KV35XBR48 XBR 35" TV
With this setup I have no problem annoying the hell out of my neighbors, specially when I watch something like "Saving Provate Ryan" etc...
Also, for music listening this setup serves great. The NHT 2.5's have a nice and tight BASS along with well placed High and Mid range frequencies. These speakers are great for any type of music.
I like the "optical" interconnects for my CD player. The sound just seems more "warm" and "clean". To my ears "digital coax" interconnects sounded rather bland. Anyhoo, my two cents.
SIG ALERT
I did research for sterio equipment in december, so I have some input here.
When shopping I did the usual of going to best buy and just playing with their speakers and all that fun stuff, but I did not get a good feel for everything. So I jumped over the the local United Audio Center (now owned by Tweater). They have a great setup to test all the fun audio equipment. (Side note: you CAN haggle prices at United audio, just get an idea of prices from the web for the same product, and go to work).
I tested different recievers with different speakers with different subwoofers. In the end I ended up with the Yamaha RX-V596 reciever, 4 of the Klipsch Synergy 8.5 speakers (like a 6" midrange plus a horn), and a Klipsch KSW-12 subwoofer (12" cone, 400watt, with 105watt amp). I already had a JBL HLS-Center speakers.
Now how this compares to the rest. I played with JBL, Bose, Sony, Yamaha, Mirage, and Klipsch speakers. I do have to say that I was fond of the JBL speakers, but I could not find what I was looking for. The Klipsch are WONDERFUL speakers for someone like me (college student). They are made so you can turn your system up REALLY loud and not blow out the speakers. All Klipsch's come with a build in horn (tweater), which makes it quite nice, and if you look at the rear channel speakers, some come with a dual bi-polar horn system with a midrange... Really nice stuff.
As far as recievers, I went with Yamaha since I got more bang for the buck. Looking at Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha, and Dennon, I liked the Yamaha the most. The Sony and Pioneer look cool and all (nice interface and front displays), but you do not get the power that you would with a Yamaha of the same price. The Dennon's did not see to be that good, the company just makes really nice high-end receivers ($2000 for a reciever... NICE STUFF!!).
List price for the synergy 8.5's is like $300 or so, I payed $150 each, so that was not too bad. The sub is listed as $500, I paid $450, you could pay less the $400 if you shop. The JBL center I paid $170 for at bestbuy (its really nice, handles well), the receiver I also paid $450 for. Plus you gotta through in like another $100 to get all the nice cables and such. Grand total without the center was about $1700.
I am happy with it all, now I just need to master placement of everything to make it sound cool.
Its not what it is, its something else.
Its not what it is, its something else.
Klipsch are definitely good (I have the THX 4.1 Klipsch myself), but for home theatre, you can't beat Bose or B&W.
What's the difference between Optical cables? Or is it just the appliance sending the signal that has an effect on the quality?
I'm sorry but I just have to say this THX certification is a crock. All a company has to do is pay George Lucas alot of money and poof their product is THX certified, the more the money the higher the certification.
I know i'll get flamed for this but I just recently got a Sony STR-DE945 and i'm very pleased with it. It has 110watts per channel, 5.1 channels (well maybe 5.2 due to duel subwoofer outs), 4 optical outs 1 optical in, 1 coax out,
3 S/video inputs 1 output, 5 audio/video inputs 2 ouputs, Dolby Digital and DTS decoding, and a fancy shamancy 2 way learning remote. All this can be yours for around $600cdn.
The NHT SuperZero speakers are pretty damn cool, and for $100 each, they're decently priced. I haven't heard anything (and I've done some earwitness testing) that comes close for the price.
Right now, I have a pair of SuperTwos as my main speakers, and the rest of the surround setup are SuperZeros. I currently don't use my subwoofer as my awake hours are significantly different from my neighbors to cause trouble, even at less-than-half power on my amp.
I have the same model DVD and the 35" version of that TV.
My suggestion is to go for the ~$400 model Sony receiver. It has several optical in lines, and one optical out. I have their top of the line model and it works great. The DTS features are great!
I have two JBL front speakers. 10" woofers w/grill and solid compressed rubber front. You can kick them as hard as you want and they'll never break, plus they sound good too =)
I bought them about 4 years ago for $300. You may have trouble finding comparable models now because the JBL product line has gone downhill over the last year or so.
Also, JBL's 12" 450W sub-woofer is good. It's listed at $400.
That leaves you with about $400 to buy a center channel and some rear speakers. I don't have any good suggestions for those because you probably have different space considerations than I do.
Just send me a message if you want the model numbers off of those speakers I mentioned. I can look them up for you just in case JBL still makes them (or has any in stock).
Happy Hunting,
B
I only got my system a few months ago and it is truly sweet.
:-)
;-)
Sony DVD Player (DVP 725)
Sony Digital AMP/Tuner (STR DB900)
4x Kef Cresta 3 loudspeakers
1x Kef Cresta Center.
REL Q50 Sub woofer
Sony Projector (can't remember the number)
You're obviously sorted with the DVD player and projector/TV.
Get a digital Amp, since most have a tuner built in. You don't need another CD playre, since your DVD will play those for you. My laptop's got a Digital optical out (in the docking station), I use that to play my MP3s!
DETAILS
1. All systems sound different depending on the room settings? Carpets/Wood floor? Big heavy sound damping curtains, or roller blings? Shape of the room? Various other forms of furniture? Positioning of Viewers/Listener(s)? These all play a part in the type of system, height of speakers, angles etc...
2. If it is a decent store, they should come and install and demo the system for you! Test it in your listening environment. Test it with the kind of music YOU listen too!
3. Quality of interconnects cannot be understimated. They make a massive difference in sound/picture quality.
4. Use Spikes to Isolate the speakers from the floor.
SETUP.
Use the amp as the central Hub.
By doing this you can connect your laptop etc all to the same system for sound and vision, and will not have to make drastic adjustments each time.
Most respectable amps have loads of inputs!
Connect your DVD player via the S-video cable and Digital optical/coax cable to the AMPs inputs.
(Get good quality cables for this!)
From your amp, connect to the TV/projector, via an S-Video cable. (S-video provides a much sharper image than SCART.).
Your amp is already connected to your speakers. (make sure all the speaker cables are the same legth.).
Quality cabling is a must. Sometimes gold cables can sound too sharp, simple copper will do fine. It all depends on the rest of the setup.
Finally adjust the amp with the relative distances/heights of each speaker relative to listener.
And that's about it! Just stick in the Matrix DVD and relax!
-- "To ask a question is to show ignorance; Not to ask a question means you'll remain ignorant."
They sound better...
While audioreview.com is nice for getting specific user feedback on specific products without having to wait for it, HTF is also an invaluble site to look into. Ask detailed questions in the HT Hardware forum and get intelligent, detailed answers.
For the record, my system is:
Receiver: Marantz SR-7000
Fronts and Rears: Paradigm Mini-Monitors (Monitor series)
Center: Paradigm CC-350 (Monitor series)
Sub: Hsu Research VTF-2
Oh, in case you missed the other hundred comments to this effect, stay away from Bose!.
A few things: You're going to want a receiver with DTS decoding (the sound difference *is* noticable), and I'd stick with Sony. Go with their ES line (the price goes up, but the quality is very very worth it). Also, remember that to get good shielded cables and a good digital coaxial cable is going to be a chunk of change. Finally, I would recommend going with an Infinity satellite system (it's what I use) as they are better than the Bose, and almost the same price. As with any satellite system, you are going to need to fill in the mid range with a set of standard-size (around 6"+) speakers, but these don't have to be as great. Don't believe the advertizing - you do need those mid-ranges, especially if you really want to turn the sound up. You're probably past that $1500, but as far as I am concerned, the only reason I own a TV and a DVD player is so I can enjoy the kick ass sound on newer DVD's.
I've got a couple year old sony. While it doesn't have the optical in, coupled with a set of Cerwin Vega speakers the system sounds incredible. I don't have a Sub, but with the RE-38 speakers that I use for the fronts, I almost don't even need one.
I second the 'Stay Away From', list most of the mainstream stuff is weak.
_ _____
For speakers, Royd are incredible for the price.
Kef are awesome, and the higher end Celestions are good. Mission makes a not too bad entry level speaker as well. B&W are way overpriced IMHO. Yes they sound wonderful, but does a *slightly* better sound justify the $$$$??
On the amp end, Creek makes some great sounding amps that are quite reasonably priced.
Beware of wattage claims of manufacturers. A 40watt Creek or Arcam will crush a 100watt Sony or Kenwood. The British hi fi companies tend to underrate wattage and they measure it differently than in N.America.
Most of all, use your ears and stay away from hard sell salesmen! Good hi-fi people are great to get to know. They'd rather convert you to great sound than make a sale in the short run.
___________________________________________
$which weed
Bose were pretty good a few years ago - some of the '70s bass reflex speakers are really sweet.
_ ______
Now they are a "lifestyles" company and they have really focussed on neato looking gear. The sound that they produce is pretty good, but *way* overpriced for what you're getting.
The focus of their equipment seems to be more form follows function.
If you want neato stuff that sounds really good, Bang & Olufsen is cool. However, they are expensive and not the greatest sound quality compared with other companies.
Bose may sound better than your radio shack stereo or a lower end Sony or Kenwood, but not enough to justify the price.
People that tend to rave about Bose often haven't compared it to hi-fi components that are out on the market.
just my $0.02
__________________________________________
$which weed
For receivers, I'd recommend you look at the following (you can compare their relevant features at Crutchfield.com, even if you plan on buying from somewhere else):
As to speakers, spend as much as you possibly can on them. I'm very serious when I say this---the more you spend, the better they'll sound. Some people recommend Bose, but with only about $1000-$1200 to spend after getting your receiver, you'll get more for your money with other speaker manufacturers, such as Cambridge Soundworks.
Make sure that you buy speakers whose sonic quailties compliment each other. You'll also want to consider whether to get dipole or bipole radiator rear speakers (although Cambridge Soundworks makes at least one set of rears that switches between them---I have them and they're great). I'd recommend the Cambridge Soundworks MovieWorks 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System (or the less expensive MovieWorks II if your budget is constrained).
I'm spending all of your money, but when you watch a movie like The Matrix you'll know where it went. Remember, no matter what you choose, choose a receiver that meets your requirements and then spend everything you can on speakers. If you only spend 50% of your money on speakers you'll be disappointed. 70% is much more appropriate.
I just did an entire home theatre upgrade myself. It sounds like you have a good TV and a good DVD player (Digital decoding built in!). Now what you need is power. I recommend any high current receiver and the speakers to handle it. I bought a Harman Kardon AV 110 to power my 5 Energy speakers (FR,LR,C,SL,SR, no sub!). This receiver delivers 20Hz - 20kHz into 8 ohms on each channel. The difference is you can feel the audio as well as hear it. Center channel is a must. HK also has the best remotes. Use Gladiator for audio testing as it has a DTS audio setup option. Enjoy!
ok so bose makes crappy speakers for the home. didn't really know that. what about their car speakers, are they also pure hype? anybody have a preference here?
don't waste a bunch of money on speaker wires. expensive wires aren't really different from average wires.
Make sure that the amp (or "controller" as they're known as these days) has LOTS of S-video and optical/coaxial digital sound inputs. Ideally, you'll want S-video inputs for DSS, DVD and a couple of spares, plus at least two S-video outputs (one for TV, one for VCR or TiVo type unit).
Also, if you can find an amp that has multiple sets of Component Video inputs and can switch between them, (3xRCA jacks per video signal) you'll be laughing -- that would give you the highest quality image on your monitor without having to switch the input at more that a single place. Unfortunately, these beasts are harder to find and are more expensive.
I purchased everything from Circuit City:
Infinity HTS10: 5 satellite speakers and an 8" subwoofer. Retail $599, I got mine on sale for $420. They sound GREAT, they can take a lot of power for such small speakers, and less than half the price of the Bose! I think the Bose had a clearer voice channel, so Bose may be the better choice for Home Theater, but not worth the extra $$ for the small difference. Infinity was the better sounding setup for music IMO. Infinity definately is better bang for the buck. I also purchased Circuit City's 10 year warranty package, so I can return the speakers to have them replaced or repaired if anything ever goes bad! That was an extra $75 I believe.. Well worth it.
ONKYO: TXDS575X receiver. This has basically all the bells and whistles, and the sound is superb. $499 retail, I got mine for about $389 on sale. It was a tossup between this and a comparable Harman Kardon amp (both high current amps). The HK was about $100 more, and had a little better midrange to it. But the ONKYO has a bit more power per speaker, and is the better bang for the buck. HK sounded nice for music listenting, but the Onkyo (IMO) has a better sounding Dolby Digital & DTS decoder, so it was the win over HK for Home Theater.
So a nice little system for under $1000.00 well worth it, I'm happy with mine. You can see the specs for both of these components at the circuit city web site.
I'd stay away from 'consumer' audio hardware, like you tend to find at places like Circuit City, Best Buy, ABC Warehouse, etc.
I'd take a trip to your local high-end audio dealer, and start listening to stuff; they'll be happy to introduce you to the entry-level hifi theater gear, and I think you'll be much more satisfied with everything you can find there, by comparison. This isn't to say that there isn't consumer hardware that sounds good (there are some great things happening), but if you're looking for the most satisfying experience available for the money, you're unlikely to find it without a little work.
As far as particular brands/models, the best bet is to listen to everything, and then decide with what sounds best to you; each high-end dealer you visit is likely to carry different brands with different strenghts and weaknesses. Personally, I've had tremendous experience for value/performance with NAD -- the sound quality is excellent, the units uncluttered, and power/flexibility both ample. Models like their T770, T761, and even T751 receivers are sure to please (don't be scared by paper specifications, LISTEN).
On the other hand, you could look at seperates -- a clean 5.1-6.1 channel pre-amplifier and amplifier(s) as necessary to power the system ... but if you're trying to also purchase speakers within your $1500 budget, that's going to start to get difficult.
Quite frankly, $1500 is not much to spend on a receiver/pre-amp,amp and speakers, especially if you're planning on buying seperate main, surround, center, and sub channel hardware. Again, the best thing you can do is go to a reputable hifi dealer, and listen to what's available. I realize that the money is likely burning a hole in your pocket right now, but if you can wait for a little while, buying just a few of the components at a time and saving for the next round will yield an overall more satisfying system ... for example I might purchase a nice receiver now and try to pick up some economical main speakers. Next, I'd go after the surrounds, then the center channel, and a subwoofer as the funds become available. It will be hard to be without a full system at first, but I truly think you'll end up with a more versatile system that you can enjoy without exception in the end.
Again, as far as specific brand recommendations go for speakers, it's best to pick what sounds good. Personally, I've had good luck with the offerings from NHT.
Don't take my word for it, however. Take a look at different audio review magazines, web sites, and talk to your local hifi dealer; he/she can surely steer you in the right direction.
If you aren't afraid of used stuff (I'm not usually) then some good deals can be found on Audio Review. Used Vadersteen 2Ce's can be picked up for under $500 and 1B's for under $350. They make great fronts (the 1B's make great rears too). A very nice Aerial CC3 center channel can be picked up as low as $400. I know that with a good amp that would push the price cap but they're worth it. I have a pair of 2Ce's matched with a CC3 and just some bookshelf Boston Acoustics for the rears (also nice for low budget). I have $1000 in all 5 speakers and my friends all think my stuff sounds really nice. I'm pushing it with a Sony DA30ES and a Pioneer DV-09 DVD player. I'm very happy but I do plan to upgrade the rears. Avoid anything with loud mid range though. It'll ruin the home theatre experience.
I've auditioned the Klipsch and so have many of my friends. There tonal quality leaves much to be desired. The mid range is nothing short of atrocious. In the same classes that I've heard I would have picked the competing Boston Acoustics model over the Klipsch across the board. I have not heard the entire product line though. Mostly I've listened to the bookshelf and entry model floor standing.
BTW, you can convert composite to S-Video with this $39 item:
http://www.milestek.com/SearchResults.asp?sSear
It's passive, and there are much nicer ones available, but they get pricey ($150+). I use one of these for my VCR, and it's great.
-glenn
http://www.audiogon.com
These guys will have you buying tube equipment before long, but they know their stuff.
http://www.avsforum.com
Home Theater buffs with a tremendous amount of knowledge.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com
Similar to the above, but it's a slightly different crowd. It's hard to explain.
I've learned a wealth of information from these sites. You'll find that these guys are all talking about spending a lot more than your budget on their hardware, but they are the guys you want to ask about a $1500 system, because they're the ones critical enough to sift the wheat from the chaff, even though they might not buy the system themselves. (Obviously I'm stereotyping here. Many of the people on the forums are as strapped for cash as the next guy.) For equipment reviews, www.audioreview.com is good, and so is www.etown.com. Audioreview seems to have a good quantity of reviews and etown has good quality reviews. For buying equipment, if you are looking for used stuff, look at audioreview and audiogon before going to ebay, and you'll like what you find. I prefer dealing with people who know what they're selling when possible.
Anyway, good luck, and welcome to the "club"!
David Fay
P.S. FYI, my current setup:
Sony 1272 CRT projector (92" x 52" 16:9 home-made screen)
PC with DVD-ROM drive, SBLive! (SPDIF out), and PowerDVD 2.55
Pioneer Elite receiver (older one, no DTS)
B&W Nautilus 804 mains
Dual SVS 20-39 subwoofers with the Fidek 600W amp
I need to get surrounds and a center, but so far things are sounding and looking good! HTPC (home theater PC) is definitely the way to go if you can. There's nothing like watching a DVD in 1280x720@72Hz resolution on a projector.
I purchased a Yamaha RX-V990 a year and half ago and have been very pleased. It has both Optical toslink and coxial inputs as well as S-video switching capability. This allows you to have multiple s-video input sources (DV, DVD, VCR, etc...) into your TV, have it switched with your audio and on screen display. Also has Dolby Digital 5.1, although these days 6.1 digital has been released as well as DTS-ES, adding a rear center channel. Yamaha's amplifiers are very clean in my opinion. Some people complain of Yamaha sounding too "bright" (I used to), but with a good speaker matchup I think they sound very balanced.
In short, look for amps that have the basics, S-video in, Toslink optical in, the types of surround you want (DTS-es, 6.1, etc..) and then go listen to it. All the features in the world won't make you happy if you personally don't like the sound. I also saw someone post about audioreview.com, it is a great source for getting some basic opinions.
A buddy of mine uses a digital preamp, D/A coverter (apologies, can't remember brand or model #s), and a pair (yes, i said pair) of Classé Omega Dual Monoraul amps piped into a pair of Magnepan Magneplanar MG 20's. For enhanced bass, the low frequencies are sent through a Krell amp to a set of custom-made 15" subs.
OK, so you're over $50k now. A little much for a multimedia PC system, but hey! Why would you ever want to sacrifice quality in your audio system?
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
Choose NAD reciever and Paradigm speakers. see: www.nadelectronics.com and www.paradigm.ca
if electricity is created by electrons, is morality created by morons?
Why? What makes it crap? I am not saying you are wrong or anything, but for the sake of all the readers here, please be a little more specific.
In our house, we have a Harmon Kardon receiver paired with our cd player and sony dvd player. It's backed up with PSB speakers all around, and the sound is amazing. The best thing for you to do though, is go try some out. Don't go to a huge megastore...find one of those little out of the way audio shops, that you would never think of visiting. More often than not, they sell equipment that will blow you away. The people that work there know there stuff more than any Best Buy geek could ever dream of. And they let you play around a lot more with the systems that they already have set up, so you can see what works for you. It's mostly a matter of preference, really.
I get a warm and fuzzy feeling going with all the same components (you already Sony for TV and DVD), and Sony makes good components. It replaced a Denon receiver which was actually slightly better, but not DD ready. I notice that you didn't mention speakers. If $1500 is really your remaining budget, think about spending at least half on speakers, unless you already have some good ones. Speakers are one of the most essential parts of the system - never skimp.
I currently have the Infinity RS-10's as my front speakers.
These monsters are increadible. I purchased them for a very nice price of $700 for the pair at Ubid.com.
You can sometimes find very good deals on receivers and speakers there.
Another good site to check is audioreview.com. It has information on a LOT of audio components.
Enjoy!
Byzandula
I have a Yamaha receiver (similar to the RXV-596 but a little older) with 5.1 output and optical input. My Sony DVD and laserdisc players both have optical output, which is nice. The one thing I would have changed is to get a receiver that does video switching as well as audio. At the time I purchased the video switching version of my receiver was $300 more and I decided it was more than I needed. I wish now I had gone ahead and bought it. It's not a huge deal to switch the video inputs through my TV, but it's an extra step I'd rather not go through. It's also annoying for people trying to figure out how to switch my components to the right mode...
-drin
Start your journey at goodsound.com. Finish at a local, independent hi-fi dealer. I'd recommend a Yamaha or NAD receiver coupled with PSB Alpha speakers. Don't forget the stands!
Expect a lot of opinions on this topic. Without claiming that it's the best, my system consists of the Boston Acoustic 9000 series speakers and a fairly low end Denon Dolby Digital receiver, both of which I'm extremely happy with.
The speakers are a satellite system, with the fronts being small, but impressive for their size. Pretty good bang for your buck ($1,000 for the whole package, 2 fronts, center channel, 2 rears and a sub).
See Boston's System9000 for more info.
As for the receiver, I have a Denon Dolby Digital model that isn't too far from the bottom of their product line, but it puts out enough power to keep my home theater sounding great.
Make sure the receiver you're interested in has enough inputs for the equipment you'll be using (and the correct type, such as optical ins, s-video, etc).
Overall, my speakers and receiver were a little over $1,500 (afer taxes). I prefer DVDs at home now vs. going to the movies a lot.
What if the Hokey-Pokey really is what it's all about?
Agreed! I have a Denon AVR 5700 and the full Klipsch surround system based on the KLF20's. It absolutely rocks!
Eschew Obfuscation
I have no personal experience with this system, but it seems like a good idea.
D =2 2&SpecID=5
The DT7000 has speakers and "receiver" together. No need for a separate "receiver" unit. Plus it's inexpensive (comparatively) at $999 MRSP.
If anyone has any first hand experience with this system, I'd like their opinion!
http://www.bostonacoustics.com/SeriesPage.asp?I
The best test I've found so far for our system has been the motorcycle/truck chase scene in Terminator 2.
Still trying to find the best dialog test though.
I currently own a yamaha v393 home theatre stereo along with paradigm titans, and a paradigm center channel (cc130). the whole package sounds excellent, and the price was decent. It's easily expandable to include rear speakers as well as a sub. There are no digital inputs on this (it does support full 5.1 surround but through discrete inputs).
... and it's only $500 msrp.
I would suggest the RX-v596 as it has full surround capabilities with 3 digital inputs, 3 audio and 5 audio/video inputs, 2 s-video outputs, a&b speaker outputs and more
yamaha.com
paradigm speakers are great! the best sounding speakers I have heard and at a great price. The titans are more than enough for a decent sized room and more than capable of handling the output from the rx-v596. the monitor series are even better, but you are paying a premium for them. i would look at spending around $150-200 for a pair and around the same for the centre, the sub could be around $300-400. the site has a great reference for matching all your paradigm speakers you would want (fronts, rears, centre and sub)
paradigm.ca
have fun and enjoy.
--craig
Aiwa doesn't make *anything* that qualifies as good. They are the shit that Sony is too embarassed to put their own name on when selling. Go ahead, pick up the Aiwa set of yours and squeeze the sides a little bit, did they bow in and creak? Thought so. Now grasp the volume knob, wiggle it up and down a little. Amazing how much it moves in ways it isn't supposed to ain't it.
(end quote)
Well, I tried your torture test.. (and then rewired the entertainment center for shits and giggles) and no, neither of those things happened. I can see your point, but ya know what? I paid under 500 for the thing. I figure if I get two or three years out of it, I got my money's worth. And it sounds great to me. In two years, I will have enough money put together for the full on top of the line SOny component system I want, but for now.. *grin* IT WORKS.
ANd its a great stopgap that works, nicely, while I pick out the high end system I *really* want.. these things cant be picked or bought in a day.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
>>You paid extra for a dvd player with a 5.1 decoder. This means you can get a good "5.1 ready" receiver. They are being discontinued by most mfg's so you can pick up good quality for quite cheap. spend the $$ you save on better speakers for now.
yeah.. I noticed that they were getting harder to find. It's also getting very hard to find a DVD player with built in 5.1 decoding. (Sony was the only one for a reasonable (read under 500 bucks) price I could find. According to Dolby Labs website, the external decoder gives you better sound, often, than the internal decoders. (they dont specify why.)
It seems to me that the audio industry is rolling out new technologies just to get people hooked on them and then discontinue them.. making it damn difficult to build a system over years anymore. Seems now everytime you want to upgrade something, the connector she don fit no mo.
Is this due to moving forward in technology? Or is this planned obsolescence? (face it.. I can't hear the difference between the optical and gold plated RCA.. nor can I see the difference between Svideo and Component video.. but thats me.. I have people telling me I'm an idiot for either having or not having any/all of the above on a regular basis)
So.. what are the real answers?
For the best interconnectivity, lasting usefulness, and sounds that humans (not dogs and not testing labs) find pleasurable, where is it all at?
Anyone?
maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
**The basic Bose home theater cube system comes with 10 cubes and an impressive horn subwoofer....has absolutely EXCELLENT sound quality,**
Ya know.. I used to think that too. Then I had a friend who is a screaming blue audiophile take me out shopping one day. By the end of the day, I recognized Bose for what it is.. rather muddy mid-range optimized black magic boxen that are *way* overpriced for what you get out of them.
Those lil cubes are a nice selling point, and yes, they are teensy.. but for what they want for that amp and those lil things, I can put together a system with half again as much punch, Gallien Kreuger speakers which will handle the amp at 11, and still have money left over for fries, a coke, and a couple of DVD's to enjoy on the system.
Bose has really good advertising.. but their products are definately not on a par with the level they claim they are.
maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
They left out the 5.1 decode in favor of a co-Axial and optical out, as well as two sets of RCA jacks. I really won't miss the built-in decoder, since all it does is add cost for something you can do better externally. It also has RGB three-channel video output, as well as S-Video. It's a rather nice piece of hardware.
WEll, my Aiwa (which I will replace someday) has 5.1 in on it, which IMHO sound a *lot* better than its crappy 3.2 decoding. (If I want single rear channel, I'll only use one speaker, thanks).
Speaking of the RGB.. does anyone even *make* A tv anymore that takes RGB? Last time I checked there was *one* that was available, and it was a high end sony.
The sony DVD I got, (dont remember the number) has optical, coax, svideo, two sets of RCA, and 5.1 out.. thats enough to keep me happy for a *long* time. no zoom however, And it doesnt play V-cd's, why I dont know. Cause Sony is just like that I guess.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
I must admit, this man knows what he is talking about. I have one of those Sony receivers (not of the ES type) and I am looking for something better. As for speakers, I have been very happy with my B&W 602s for the front and back and a LC2 (I think) for the center. For the sub, I went with a Paradigm 1000 because it had a lot better performance on the floor than the B&W model I looked at. Look at spending about US $600 for each pair of 602s and US $500 for the center speaker and $550 for the sub. I have really enjoyed my system since I got these speakers even with a sup par receiver.
I have a sony 945, I think it is cost about 500, it has some really anoying things on it. First My DVD and satalite have s-video but my playstation and vcr only have rca out. The reciever will not put both out to the same cable, I would expect it to make it so that all video goes out on all of the outputs but, rca in's go to rca'outs same with svideo. Then my TV a Toshiba 50 TheaterView projection can not have RCA and s-video hooked up on the same input set, so not only do I have to change which component on the reciever But I also have to change which component on the TV. It gets really anoying. Also the Remote sucks, It will not work with my Satalie(dishnetwork dishplayer, the one with a tivo built in) nor does it like the fact that I have a TV and a Cable box. It was not worth the money. The $200 sony sub that I got is great, except for the fact that it knocks pictures off the wall, but that is what it is supose to do. I have KLH-900 book shelf front speakers, cost 80 for hte pair at CostCo. I want to get the infiniti tower speakers whihc cost about 500. I also have a bose center channel, it sounds great and was worth the $200 it cost. For rear I have cheep klh $40 speakers, which work fine.
.sigs suck, thus nothing here.
Then just sit back and let your eyes and ears do the talkin'
--
--
Poliglut.org: 75 Million gun owners can't be wrong
Almost all recievers come with remotes that can be programed to control virtually any amount of AV equipment. The sony TV remote should also be able to control virtually any Receiver for at least basic functions. If you have to have the ultamate in recievers Harmon Kardon makes a really nice one (about $200 for a seperate remote, i think) as do a few others in the price range.
I used to sell AV equipment at a Circuit City, and as much as I love Sony TVs (they are over priced though) I would never buy one of their receivers. Even their ES series (the high end) at any price. A good rule of thumb to get a rough judge of the quality of the reciever is WEIGHT. BIG power supplies are very important, and weigh ALOT! They are also the most expensive part of a reciever.
Circuit City carries Bose (WE know they suck) as well as infinity and Polk Audio. The Polks are known for their Base, but I would get one of the new Infinities if it were up to me. I know there are a number of other fabulous speakers out there. Be sure to listen to them with various music types. Stuff YOU listen to. But I would suggest at least ONE classical CD with lots of stings and Kettle Drums to test the base repsonse of the receiver and speakers.
I am pretty impressed with the Harmon Kardons, but the ONKYOs are also very nice. Just depends on preference. The NEW H/K reciever, and DVD player have built in MP3 Decoding and have both the TOSLink and Digital Coax.
I would also suggest your towers are NOT powered, save the money one a Velodyne Sub (they are some of the best consumer subs out there) A seperate Amp can certaily give you better performace as someone else noted, but will probably take you way over budget.
Don't forget that you will want all your pieces to work well together. The key to this is a good remote control that will work with every single thing you have and make sense to use. With a DSS system, Magnavox TV and VCR, and Sony tuner and CD changer, the Sony remote was the best; but if you programmed it to work with the Magnavox stuff it would no longer work with the CD player. So we were stuck with the three-remote dilemma many people suffer from every day. Be sure to plan for this.
The only problem with that is that I jam out to songs and stuff like that, and quote Monty Python and Mel Brooks films at random, so Lord knows what kind of crap the system would pull on me.
The Apex is a cheesy low-end DVD player that happens to be macrovision and region free. There is a French company (name escapes me) which sells and installs chips for real name-brand 'respectable' DVD players to allow the end user to easily disable the region-locking and macrovision 'features'. Expensive, but much better than buying a crappy player just because you have the option of playing disks from third world nations.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
My roomate and I have 2 audio setups. The HT is his, a Yamaha 5.1 reciever and Panasonic DVD player with a bunch of random speakers and a 150W 12" sub.
:)
The pure music system is mine:
* Music Hall MMF-5 Turntable (yes you read that right)
* Marantz CD63 cd player
* Conrad-Johnson PV-7 Preamp (all vacuum tube circa 1986)
* McIntosh MC-240 Power Amp (all tubes, circa 1965)
* NHT bookshelf speakers
Before you say it, yes I get lots of comments about how old it is. That is of course until I warm it up and put on a clean record, at which point most peoples jaw drops at the sound.
BTW, If there are any mp3/digital junkies out there with "old" lp's they want to get rid of, drop me a line
-JeremyH
yeah, I've got some DCMs also, and they aren't bad for a cheaper system. My NHTs put them to shame though, and You could put together a really nice home theatre system for around $2500 total with NHTs... not quite the range that was asked for, but they sound SOOOO nice. I'm still working on getting Linux to play DVDs and output to the SPDIF of my SBLive... it sounds great in winblows, but I don't like having to reboot just for that.
-- Braeus Sabaco
Member of the Roman Legion
Customer/worker at Phenomenal Internet Solutions
This is SO educational! -- Kintaro Oe
Just a note, the last time I read Sound and Vision Magazine, they rated the BOSE speakers in the 60s, and the less expensive NHT speakers were 90s. They said the Bose speakers provide good base, but they muddy the sound a lot and don't match the clarity of better speakers.
-- Braeus Sabaco
Member of the Roman Legion
Customer/worker at Phenomenal Internet Solutions
This is SO educational! -- Kintaro Oe
Isn't this just the old addage : 'a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link' ?
Since the sound (in whatever form) has to pass through ever component (or speaker) along the way, every part of the whole setup affects the ultimate output. From the source (mp3, cd, vinyl) to the reciever, to the speakers. If any part of that path is really horrible (even the wires) the final output will reflect it. Or so i've thought for quite a while. Basically, you can't neglect any part of your system if you really want good sound.
-Reaper
TV is so overrated, Runco overhead projection with B&W 801's upfront and 805's in the rear with Krell driving the whole thing. Oh sure this is a few years old and I am sure that there are newer things out there but for now this is fine........
Hey, you think your house is cool?
So then you liked them until you learned that you shouldn't?
I strongly disagree with your advice to stay away from Yamaha speakers. I have a pair of Yamaha NS-10M Studio monitors, and they sound awesome. The lows (sub-80Hz) don't sound too big, but that's what you have subwoofers for anyway. They have a really flat frequency response, and they're very popular in recording studios. As a matter of fact, I've seen pictures and video clips of studios of big recording artists (e.g. Dr. Dre and some others) that have these speakers in 'em.
Personally, I would go with the Technics SA-DX940.
It has optical and coax inputs, Dolby Po-Logic and Digital decoding, as well DTS decoding. Let's not forget Dolby 5.1. There are also several video inputs, allowin you to multiplex several vido inputs to your television.
This receiever can't be beat for price/performance, and is a high quality product all around.
Don't even bother with something if it can't decode Dolby Digital and DTS. I've got a cheap but great Pioneer receive VSXD409 which can do them both. Spend your money on good speakers and forget about Bose, they are too expensive and can't deliver. I've got great Tannoy M2's, sound is just perfect. Look at the www.audioreview.com for other users comments of any gear you want to buy. Don't rush and buy, wait and choose until you are fully satisfied. These are just some of the tips that can help you choose the right components of your home theatre system
I won't go into brands as I haven't shopped audio stuff recently. But there are a few general bits of advice that could serve you well.
Buy pieces. If you bought it all at once, at least half of it is crap. You can see this for yourself by playing with such a system in the store and turning off the main speakers. The dinky surround sound and center speakers that come with most sets are about of the same high quality as you might find in a $30 boombox. You're spending real money here. You deserve better.
With a large screen TV I think you'll be most happy with a system capable of a lot of bass. This means 12-15" woofers in whatever speakers you buy. I'd personally go with 4-6 individual speakers depending on your room size if you want to really feel like you're in the theatre. Where the sound is coming from is about as important as what it's coming from. More on that in a minute.
Don't buy 2 way speakers. This refers to how many actual speaker cones are in the cabinet you get. 2 way means you have a woofer and a tweeter 'n that's it. Remember, these have to carry the entire range of sound you want to hear. Everything from the Dinos walking to the trilling of birds. But without extra cones in the cabinet to balance things out, you've got one cone trying to handle speech and bass guitar all at the same time. I personally have 4 way speakers, 15" woofer, midrange cone, a cone tweeter and a tiny non-cone tweeter of another design to carry the really high range sounds.
Back to spacing... Ever wonder why car stereos sound so good? They don't use large speakers. They don't have a lot of space to deal with. And they're made with the same technology. It's all in where the speakers are and where the sound is going. Figure out what your room is like. Where people will be when listening to this. Visualize the sound coming out of the speakers. Will it bounce off the hard wall? Or will that couch just dampen a lot of it? Arrange things accordingly. You want a lot of overlap, ideally at about the same distance so that one side isn't drowning out the other. But if that can't be arranged, well, that's what balance controls are for.
Don't bother with a separate preamp and tuner. They're too expensive and I doubt you'd notice them adding much. Get one unit that does both. As mentioned elsewhere, the connections are the main thing when choosing a tuner. Anything even roughly like 100 watts/channel is more than enough to rattle you out of bed and make your ears bleed. So just check the specs and make sure it handles either the entire 20Hz - 20KHz range or something acceptably close to this and you'll be fine.
Lanir
A few suggestions
Get a pre amp and a separate amp not an integrated amplifier.
Rotel makes a good block amp (one per speaker) they are bi-wire capable which greatly improves the sound
make sure you can bi-wire the speakers as well
Bi-wiring provides separate inputs for the lows and the highs, through some trick of electronics, the cost is 0 and the sound improvement is noticeable.
Even if you ignore all of this advise BUY GOOD SPEAKER WIRE decent wire costs at least 1.50 a foot but is one of the cheapest ways of obtaining good sound. Monster wire is not good speaker wire, go to a audio specialty store buy it there.
there are alto of smaller speaker makers who make excellent speakers, make sure the cones are not paper, rubber gaskets will be alot less likely to blow than foam or paper, so it helps if you can find them.
Speaker placement is also important, keep the speakers elevated at ear level for the best sound, depending on the angle of the speakers and the distance apart there will be a sweet spot in the room , where the sound hits each ear evenly and at the same time, move the speakers around until that sweet spot is where you plan to sit.
ahem, Harmon Kardon skimpy on their amps? I Think not. For its class, HK has the highest current amps on the market. Sure it is still less than what you will get out of Marantz, New Castle, and other high end components, to even mention HK in the same breath as sonykenwoodpioneer is simply degrading. For example, Harmon Kardon signature series - Power amp rated at 100 watts of power at 100 amps of current. You do the math.
The amp does not draw 100 amps of current from your source, nor does it draw 100 watts of power from your source. This amp is capable of providing up to 100 watts per channel at any given time, with a total combined current (Derived from all 5 channels) off 100 amperes.
Well, in and of themselves, they're not bad. But compared to what you pay for them, you can do a lot better. With an MIT student discount of something like ~50%, it's probably worth the money. But otherwise, you can probably do better.
Buying used for high end equipment is a great idea and I second that opinion. ESPECIALLY for solid-state stuff with few moving parts, like amps, tuners, and DVD players. High end equipment is usually very well taken care of and if you can find a good dealer of used equipment, pick up almost everything you can find. Speakers are sometimes a mixed bag, but you can find great deals for those, too.
Want a kickass HT system under 1500? Go to Ebay and search for a B&K Components AV202 or 101. Also, check stores for closeouts. They are last years model, and awesome.
Then go look for a whole set of infinity overture 1 speakers. They are small, have powered 8" woofers, and produce awesome sound. Get two pairs of them (for under 500 bucks - they retailed last year at 999.00 a pair.) and an infinity cc-1 center channel. All this you can find on ebay or www.audiogon.com - and save bundles, and get an awesome system to boot.
Forget that other crap. =-)
.Many now offer 3-6 video inputs with s-video and rca
.on screen menus (which knocks amazing amounts of time off of your initial setup and all the tweaks - don't believe me, you wont miss it if you dont have it, but it is great)
.some convert rca to svideo and better
.surround modes arent that important, mostly just gimmicky on all receivers, but onkyo has some good ones that you will use.
.multi room feeds tons more stuff as well.
.also they are doingt 6.1 & 7.1 for both dolby digital and dts (on some units)
The speaker thing is weird though. Since you will be going with a multi speaker setup because of movies, you can afford to spend less then 50% of your budget on speakers. Dont get me wrong, there will be a difference, but you would be surprised with it. I currently use Acoustic Research satellite system. Looking to upgrade soon but they have an impressive range and they sound very tight.
If you plan to listen to a lot of 2 channel music on your system make sure you listen to the speakers in a showroom in both multi channel movie watching mode and 2 channel music mode... you might want to kill the salesman at the end of this deal unless you do this.
That is your ass, and this over here is your elbow, and NO they ARE NOT the same thing.
and check out the Sony's Home Theatre ES Receivers - Not too shabby.
First of all, with that TV, you are really wasting
its capabilities if you don't use a Progressive-Scan DVD player with it, as it can take the signal. Also, be sure you are using S-Video at the least, and preferably the Component video for the connection from the TV to the DVD player.
Also, note that if you are (or decide to) use the
Component video (highest quality) connections from your DVD player to your TV, no receiver in that price range will be able to switch it. This means that you will have to use the S-Video input on the TV for everything *but* DVD, and then use one of th Component Video inputs for the DVD player (and the other Component Video input should be saved for an HDTV tuner).
That being said, I'm not sure if you want to spend $1500 on just the Receiver, or on the receiver and speakers. When I bought my first system, I had the same price limit, but I ended up spending about $2000 instead. I bought some great speakers from Definitive Technology (www.definitivetech.com) - I got the Pro200s for the front, Pro100s for the rear, ProCenter200, and the 15TL+ (15", 325Watt/RMS Sub). I got all of that for about $1500. Then, I bought a Yamaha receiver for about $500.
I think that Yamaha provides the best sound for the money in the $700 range (for a receiver).
However, if you want to get in the $1000+ range,
I like my Harman Kardon (which eventually replaced my Yamaha).
I use digital studio monitors (roland ds90's). They sound great, and have optical in so I can brag to my friends about all the fiber in my living room. Plus they are ready for DVD audio ( 96Khz, 24 bit )
Listened to a lot of stuff before I bought it, for that amount of money, I'm quite sure I got the right things ...
it's in my head
Many thanks. Really.
it's in my head
it's in my head
Most audiophiles are pure drivil anyway. They buy things like after-market power cords and unidirectional digital cables when we all know a coathanger will work.
Anyways ignore the audiofuckers. Bose are great.
If your in the UK (or can have it imported) AND have the money then Linn.
hardcode
Are the Paradigm better than the Magnepan MMG's that can be had for $500 or the NHT Super Twos for around $600? I'm looking in the price range. Thanks
I've got a full Infinity system and can back this post up. I've got SM255 (15 inchers) as mains, SM185 (8 inchers) as rears, HPS250 center and the HPS1000 sub. Not quite a matching center, but it's got a slick tweeter. For an example of volume that these babies put out, I've powered several fraternity parties with just the mains. We had the cops called three times in 30 minutes. And that was with the windows and doors shut. These are truly Pink Floyd caliber monsters.
"Me fail English, that's unpossible." --Ralphie
I spent about 2 years looking at assembling my own home theater system. First off, I went for speakers. No matter how good a receiver or amp you have, if the speakers can't reproduce the subtle wavefroms that the receiver puts out, you've lost all the investment in that good receiver. As far as what to get. I'm a big fan of Infinity. Although some would argue that they are not as good as some other brands, I feel that they are the best value. Midrange in price, but far superior than many others in their price class. And as a musician, I think that I can be a somewhat reliable guide :)
I went for the Studio Monitor line. These speakers have the kick that you would want for the dynamic aural atmosphere of a movie, but they also can handle the delicate stuff of classical music.
I bought the entire package as separates for about $1150. The subwoofer threw in another $700.
My system consists of 2 SM255's as mains, 2 SM185's as rears, an HPS-250 for a center, and the HPS1000 1000W subwoofer. The subwoofer definitely is of critical importance for home cinema. You would be surprised the bass you miss without one. And besides, it really adds to regular music as well. (Who doesn't enjoy putting out a 4 Hz sound wave that causes the neighbors walls to shake and the dogs to howl.)
My ultimate advice is to let your ears be your guide. Everyone's ears are unique, and some systems sound better to different people. Go to a store, listen, close your eyes, and hear the differences between speakers.
"Me fail English, that's unpossible." --Ralphie
Buy a Sony STR-DE945 3 Optical in's and an out all w S-Video Switching and RCA switching. Also a Coax in. 5 Video Chanels (3 digital) and 5 Audio channels (including the tuner) then buy whatever cambridge soundworks speakers you have money left over for. That will be the most economic solution.
It might be enjoyable (as well as a rude awakening!) to go to a real audio store instead of your standard circuit city style chain store. You can find some lesser known names that are what the true audiophiles use.
I personally use an older Marantz receiver (no s-video and just pro-logic; but their newer models of course support all of that) and Nuance speakers... I absolutly love Nuance speakers. Getting a demo was such an eye opening experience.
Good luck!
.plan!! what plan?
I'd have to agree. I got a DVD player from my parents for Christmas and I decided I needed decent sound to go with the picture. I did some research on the HTB-503 (audioreview.com, hometheatermag.com) and thought this would be the best bang for my buck, considering that I didn't have a lot of bucks to spend. It has Dolby Digital and DTS decoding @ 100 watts per channel. I am pleased with it. I picked it up at Sears for $500, but you can find it cheaper online if you wish.
Here's their website... They only have a couple of products so far, and the receiver I'm talking about it on their main page. (These things have gone into back-order twice already... and they are getting outstanding reviews on several home theater discussion forums.)
This little puppy they're selling will blow the doors off of probably any top-of-the-line "big name" receiver out there.
My roommate pointed me to it because I wanted to pick up a really good receiver without spending the $1000 like he did on his receiver. My roommate is a SERIOUS audiophile, and has proven to me time after time that low-end professional audio equipment is always better than high-end comsumer brands.
This thing costs $600, and while this may be out of /.'s price window, I still wanted to point the community to one of the best deals out there.
Stay away from the major names. Major name = major price.
Sir Poopsalot
To send me an email, remove the SPAM's and replace the -at- with @.
I just did research for a "high-end" receiver and bought a Yamaha RXV-2095 for $855 off ebay new w/ warranty. Every high-end store here in Texas (Austin, Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio) wanted about $1400 just to give you an idea of what you can do online. As for Yamaha the HTR line like you'll find in Circut City etc. is cheap and not nearly as well made as the RXV line. Most receivers from these stores are crap. If your looking for High-end equipment and are serious about sound I suggest the following website:
http://www.msu.edu/user/churches/ht.htm
Since Sony seems to be a popular choice, I would have to recommend the HTD-DW820. It includes a Sony receiver (with optical inputs) and six speaker surround sound for a total of 550 Watts of enjoyment. I recently got one of these babies and would highly recommend it for its size, price and quality.
--Chris
Polk Audio. Amazing quality, at a good price. I bought a pair of "bookshelf" speakers 5 years ago and have been very happy ever since (note: NEVER place speakers on a bookshelf - use floor stands). They have a nice even tone, far surpassing sonic quality of anything else I've listened to of similar size (5.25" woofer and 1" tweeter). They faithfully reproduce the silky highs, and the bass is smooth and full, accurate even at extremely loud volumes.
;)
I have a pair in my car as well, two 5.25" on the rear deck, and love them. Polk's standard 5 year warrenty is also quite nice, should you accidently blow a woofer or melt a tweeter
Combine a Polk speaker system with an Onkyo or Denon amp, and you will be happy for a long, long time. Keep in mind that your speakers will affect your sound the most, but a quality pre-amp and power amp that has low noise and distortion are key.
I would never recommend Bose if you're serious about soundstage and tonal quality. They build their speakers the same way as Sony, accenting the bass and highs to give the allusion of good sound and completely skip accurate soundstage reproduction. Do a comparison of some serious speakers like Polk, KLH, or Infinity and you'll instantly realize just how dark and scary Sean Connery's voice *really* can be.
-Aaron
(5 months from graduation and itching to upgrade the stereo to a full 5.1 Onkyo + Polk heaven)
"The price of liberty is eternal vigilence" - Thomas Jefferson
Do some research into the particular region-free DVD though! Last I heard, Apex was cutting out the region-free features on the 601A.
Denon catalogue
Speakers is a quite complicated matter. Basically you'll have to set your budget and then listen to 3 or 4 sets of speakers in your price range.
BTW, if you are still able to return your DVD player I'd do it and get one with progressive scan. Progressive scan players have a much better video quality than the interlaced ones. A good one would be the Toshiba SD-6200.
Its an excellent receiver in comparison with others in its price range. Its got everything... component video, tos optical, rca optical, the new rear center output channel, THX certified. There are so many features on this thing that I had yet to go through all of them.
One piece of advice, go with monster cables, they are worth the little extra price you pay for em.
Does the $1500 include the HTPC (Home Theatre PC)?
Kent
I would also recommend that you check out AVS Fourum. Its a great discussion group for home theatre.
Kent
if you think you can tell the difference in audio quality between RCA style jacks, and this 'optical' BS, you're deluding yourself.
Well, I can tell the difference between a 128 kbit MP3 and a 256 kbit MP3, so I think I can tell the difference between the optical and RCA jacks. Assuming, of course, that there is a difference between the D/A converter in the DVD player and the processor.
Kent
A non-technical note. If you have neighbors, they (and not you) may determine just how powerful your audio system will be. So my advice is to buy the cheapest stereo you can find.
I live in New York City, so buying a powerful stereo is like buying a really fast car.
Anyone care for some speeding tickets?
w o r l d w i d e w e b e r
I am running with a Sony DB-830 amp (100W/channel) this decodes Dolby Digital and dts. The models have been updated since I got mine, but are functionally the same, and I have B&W speakers all around, 602's at the front, 601's for the rears and a CC6 in the centre. The sound is *really* good, brings films like the Matrix to life. All in all it cost me about 1000 UKP, but components should be cheaper in the US. Plus the speakers have yellow kevlar cones, and are very sexy :)
I also use B&W speakers, and they're really good, as long as you use decent wire and interconnects for them, (decent doesn't mean 700 dollars a metre though!) I use 4 core well insulated wire, and am very impressed by the results.
My amp is a Nakamichi AV-8 running Dynaudio Audience 40's. Good setup for music and HT. Good dynamics, excellent imaging; very listenable. I'm adding a Dynaudio C120+ in a week or so; excellent speakers. The drivers really make midranges sing. Certainly for HT need a sub, but I'm not there yet. I'm in a apartment, so I'm limited in that respect anyway. At any rate, don't skimp on the reciever. Get something nice that you can listen to. Don't worry about features; generally manufacturers that are trying to throw in every feature known to man are not too worried about the sound quality. NAD is another excellent manufacturer. Talk to a local high-end audio shop; they're almost always extremely helpful. Just make sure you listen objectively to what you buy.
You're blowing the price point by quite a bit since the receiver alone fetches over $2000. Go for it's little brother, the TX-DS787, which you can get only for under $750. This leaves you plenty of coin for speakers. Just stay away from Pioneer and Sony.
Yep, they scored a kick ass in Maximum PC.
This Wiki Feeds You TV and Anime - vidwiki.org
You should seriously check out a Denon AVR-3300. It is solid, has 4 digital inputs (3 of them are optical) and supports 6.1 surround. It is quite fun to configure, and its on-screen display is pretty cool. Also, you can't go wrong with a good set of Klipsch speakers.
"Simple words such as 'better' or 'faster' are best used by simpletons. Life [...] is more complicated." - TMC
I have a full complement of Paradigm speakers, and I'm totally satisfied with them. They're kind of hard to find, but the price is decent for the quality. I spent about $450 total on fronts, a center channel, and surrounds. I've got it hooked up to a denon receiver which I got for a steal. It's great as well. for paradigm speakers, check out www.paradigm.com
The sig has a strong influence on the weak minded...
first off, let me emphasize the importance of spending the larger part of your allotment on speakers- especially the front (main) speakers. Outside of the quality of the recording you're listening to, speakers have the most impact on sound, by far.
granted, the quality/configuration of your components will also have an influence, but trust me, the speakers are the most important part.
when i went shopping for speakers and a reciever a while ago, I listened to many, many, many speakers from $500/pair to $2500/pair. What I ended up with was a pair of definitive technology BP8 bi-polar speakers that were $800/pair. Bi-polar speakers have speakers on both sides of the speaker tower and boast incredible imaging- I have had some amazing experiences listening to these speakers and I would highly reccomend checking them out.
Of course, the main thing you need to do is go out and do what I did. Pick out a few cds and go out and listen to many, many, many speakers. Also go to more than one store, or at least talk to more than one person. Speaker choices are, to a large extent, a matter of taste, so don't put too much stock in what people say- While a lot of people rave about B&Ws, Dynaudios, Infinitys, Snells, etc, I thought the def tech bp8s were, by far, the best bang for the dollar. But you probably won't agree, which is fine, just make sure you let your ears decide for themselves.
Also, different music styles and different recordings sound different on different speakers- I bought my speakers because I tend to listen to a lot of fairly dense music, and they do a really good job of creating 'space'and separating different instruments. But they don't sound as good for straight-up rock, but since I think most rock albums are poorly recorded and i don't really listen to Don Caballero closely, so much as I listen to it LOUDLY, it doesn't much matter to me.
Anyway, go out and listen- And make sure you listen to some speakers out of your price range, so you have something to judge the others by.
Um... no, I liked them until I learned to really listen to sound.
Listening is a skill like any other. You have to open up to what's really going on, rather than beign led by simple cues like huge bass.
You should try it sometime.
-b
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
I have almost the same basic setup (32" XBR and Sony DVP-S570D). I have been through several different systems and various configurations, and have also listened to a lot of friend's systems, and I found the perfect setup for me:
...) and how big the room is. Especially if you happen to have vaulted ceilings, you need some speakers with power, not to mention a signifigant subwoofer.
... they sound great for their price range.
-Sony STR-V555ES Reciever ($1300): absolutely the best receiver for its money. Has component video switching, S-Video switching, tons of inputs, cool remote, and sounds incredible. A lot of people swear by Onkyo and their analog parts, but give me this Sony any day
-Paradigm Minimon front speakers and matching center channel, with Bose surround (totalled about $1000)
- Velodyne VA-8100X Subwoofer: Best subs in the business
A couple things that I leaned when shopping:
-It really, really depends on 2 things: what you are going to be listening to (movies, music,
-Be very, very careful when buying Bose systems. A couple of their products are stellar (Waveradio and some component pieces), but the full package systems like the Lifestyle and Acoustimass series leave quite a bit to be desired, especially in the bass range. Also, those tiny speakers don't tend to do well in a large room or with wide-range music. Make sure you go to a bose store and listen to their demos before you get your heart set on Bose.
-I can't say enough about Paradigm speakers
-The people in the little specialized audio shops really know their shit. Sure, they will try and sell you something that they carry, but if you go to a couple of shops and get a couple of different viewpoints, you will start to hear the same things over again.
-When looking for a system, skip Best Buy/Circuit City/Big Audio shop
The Denon unit, for my personal listening, doesn't hurt my ears after hours of playing. The warmer sound doesn't get to me like some of the other units that play a crisper/harsher audio. But again, that's personal opionion.
What I look for in a receiver obviously includes price. But I also consider a receiver to be one of your components that should outlast most of the others (kinda like a monitor in your computing environment). You might change out your DVD or MP3 player from time to time, but a good A/V receiver should last for a good while (perhaps 10+ years). My last one did, that's for sure.
Along with the video switching capabilites (and make sure there are enough for your needs), I recommend paying particular attention to the number of digital inputs. The Denon 3801 has 4 (3 optical, one coaxial). I was a little hesitant at only four. If a receiver is supposed to last a long time (by my thinking), then how many devices produced down the road will offer digital audio outs? My guess... a lot more. You just got a DVD player, so that almost certainly has an optical out (and maybe a coax as well). Most cable and satellite systems provided digital out, as do most quality CD players. That's three already. I hope the next gen TIVOs/Replay PVRs have them too. That already fills up my receiver's inputs. So, I consider it an important aspect to consider.
Also pay attention to the amps inside your receiver. Does one big amp drive all the channels, or does each channel have its own isolated amp circuit? This can prevent fallout in one channel while others are being abused by big explosion sounds, etc... The Denon model I got has the latter.
Other things you might want to consider are DSP modes (theatre, game, etc). I personally don't consider these much. They usually end up distorting the sound. Dolby Digital vs. DTS? Most decent receivers handle both nowadays. THX certification? Ok, this "seal" says that the receiver has been built to provide a certain level and quality of sound at a given condition. I don't really know what the levels or conditions are. The Denon unit supports the EX rear effects speaker from the THX spec, but has not been THX-certified. I think the certification gives a lot of money to Lucas for a seal-of-approval. I don't buy into it (at least until that guy gets off his ass and gives us Star Wars on DVD :)
Lastly, check out the heat the unit gives off. Is it too enclosed for a cabinet you might have? Does it support the new DVD-Audio format? (probably will). Can you set indidual volume levels for the channels that increase/decrese appropriately to the master control? Test tones? Etc...
Outside the receiver, I found a big improvement in audio and video when I powered all of my components through a Monster power filter. Depending on the power requirements you need, these can be had for $100-$300. In my opinion, very worth-while additions.
Whatever you decide, enjoy your new toys!
I've got a kenwood1090 vr I got at onsale.com (now egghead.com) and I still see some now and again. Cost about 200-300 dollars, incredible specs. Every feature bell connector you can think of. Ture it is 1997 tech, and lacks DTS but ohhhh man did it rock. Plus you can aford decent speakers when your all said and done.
I got a kenwood 1090 vr... and oh MAN is that sweet. I paid between 2 and 3 hundred at onsale.com, and it has the best quality for the price. I saw one about a month ago at a stock clearence sale for 150 and was mightly tempted. 1090 vr if you can find one has the performance of a 1000+ system on the cheap.
You're gonna get lot's of opinions on this, but it really boils down to this:
1) Start with the speakers. Audition some different ones with material that you know well and pick what sounds good to YOU.
2) On the receiver front, look for the features that you'll use and need then figure out what you're going to spend. Listen to units in your range and again pick what sounds good to YOU.
My opinions (what sounds good to ME, but maybe not you):
speakers- Paradigm Atoms for a small or medium room. Go for their larger theater setups if you like, but these'll do for most applications. Energy Take 5's are another good choice here.
receivers- Onkyo Integra DTR-6 (go DTR-7 if your budget allows) or the 676 non-Integra unit (cheaper, but not hand picked components). The D/A converters in this thing are very nice. Some of the other decent brands like Dennon, NAD, H&K, etc. have good stuff too.
Good luck & good listening!
Once you lick the lollipop of mediocrity, you'll suck forever!
Yamaha makes some amazing stuff, and it's affordable. I've got a pair of NSA-200XT's that sound better than anything else I've heard in a showroom under $1000. Total cost $350 at my local best buy. Three way with dual 8"s being used as my front channel with a toshiba DVD and H/K CD player. rated to 220watts they'll handle almost anything. Best money I've spent in the past year. My friend's Bose 501's don't sound as good and cost about 4x as much.
Hmm, I would recommend a surround sound amplifier and some speakers. That ought to do it! ;-)
Your best bet for a receiver would be a harman kardon AVR 510. Would be within your budget and produces great sound. I use the AVR 500 model (last years) and it's amazing.
- Clockwrkz
I got my speakers from Cambridge SoundWorks. They are a great company, and their speakers are high quality for much cheaper than the equivalent from Bose etc. it's worth reading up on their stuff...
Don't blame me - I voted for Howard Dean. http://dean2004.blogspot.com
Put your money in the speakers - you will see a much higher return in $/quality from speakers than from the receiver. Your receiver selection should be based on necessary i/o, features (ac3/dts, #of svid, component vid, etc), and neutral sound. Harmon Kardon is my personal preference - good sound, not a lot of gimmiks - if you want every weird gimmik under the sun go with JVC. But go to a high end type audio store and LISTEN - your ears are your best tool for this. Another trick - take a classical type piece of music and turn in down very low, til it is just audible, and listen for hisses, clicks and other forms of distortion - this will tell you a lot about the performance of both speakers and amps. Good luck
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
Dude! I use Carvin gear too. Professional quality and the price was sweet. I grabbed the 2100 dollar model with a 16 channel mixing board, one never knows when one might wish to rock and roll somewhere and need one of those babies! 1000 watts and bone shaking sound. Like their ads say, clean and transparent. Love it. My Bose 901 speakers are in the attic next to my Rectilinears.
I too have an xbr400 and have been researching for an affordable speaker/receiver combination.t _7169.shtml
Well, I got the speaker part down:
check out the deftechs reviews on the procinema 80 system for under $1000: http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/Speaker/produc
They get nothing but great reviews.
go to www.audioreview.com and the best piece of advice.. don't buy bose.. unless your looking for marketing.. because they are the best marketers.. as you can see by peopels comments here.. there speakers, however, are pretty much bottom-of-the-line (in the 70's though, they rocked). if you want to go cheap.. i'd say go yamaha receiver.. and jbl/polk/paradigm/psb speakers.
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Esobofh - Currently drinking fresh mango juice.
A 30-second visit to price comparison sites like MySimon, PriceWatch, or PriceScan would have saved you more than $500 on the components you already bought. The TV you paid $2500 for can be had for $2000, and your $300 DVD player sells elsewhere for $235. After you decide on the best audio components, shop around for the best *price* as well.
I did upgrade my home theater system recently and after talking to many experts on that matter (vendors are usually NOT expert), I always received the same 2 comments: 1) Hear before you buy!!! Every person has different taste in music. It's really about "do you like what you are hearing?" So do not be afraid to bring that Olivia Newton-Jone CD you like so much to the store. Sit, and listen to the different systems. 2) Do NOT follow the vendors advice to include at least 10% of your total price in cable. This is ridiculous. Buy grade 12 cable that you can find at home renovation stores. That should be enough. As a general rule, you'll get more for your money if you invest in speakers or amplifier than in fancy cable. And my advice : buy Canadian speakers! :) They usually are very cheap with the same performance as american or japanese speakers.
The basic Bose home theater cube system comes with 10 cubes and an impressive horn subwoofer....has absolutely EXCELLENT sound quality, and its volume output will really surprise you. They are quite inconspicuous and very easy to mount. The only downside is that they must be used with a Bose amplifier.....of course, thats built into the subwoofer. Oh - and this 10 cube/subwoofer/tuner& costs approximately $1300 (US) - within your budget - and still leaves 200 for the tuner of your choice (i recommend the Bose one of course). If there is a Bose store anywhere near you (I know a couple in the Southern California area) DEFFINATELY stop by and take a look.....when you're making a $1500 investment its wise to shop arround a little and experience the products for yourself. Bose webpage
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
For $1500 you cant get a decent audio system. Just a Reciever that supports all the new audio formats and standards (THX, AC3 aka Dolby Digital, and DTS) is going to run you about a thousand bucks, and then with the speakers and optional amp, its going to be alot more than that.
My current system is a Denon AVR-4800 ($1200), B&W Center Chan ($1000), B&W Reference speakers x 4 ($4400) and a B&W 800 watt powered subwoofer ($1100). The system supports all current standards, and audio formats. Its not cheap and dont expect to get a system that supports everything for cheap
"Think, It aint illegal.....yet" - George Clinton
Definately go with a Harman Kardon or Onkyo reciever. Both make a model around $500 that has two AC3 (optical) inputs and 3-4 video inputs (svideo and rca). Both are also high current amplifiers meaning they put out very nice full spectrum sound, they'll pump more bass through your front, rear and center channel than normal recievers. The HK sounds a little better and looks nicer IMO but the Onkyo has more features.
:) the Infinity IL series (IL30's for the front, IL10's for the rear, IL25 for the center). With one of the recievers above the sub isn't really necessary if you're living in apartments. If not go with the Entrasub. Total cost for this setup will be about $1750 total without the sub and about $2050 with. A little more than you were thinking of spending but well worth it.
As for the speakers I'd go with (and have gone with
Prices broken down (assuming you find a good internet deal, which shouldn't be hard):
$500 for the reciever
$600 for the front speakers
$400 for the rear
$250 for the center
$300 for the sub
This is the exact setup I've got in my apartment (except I use the old Reference series of Inifinity, IL wasn't out yet) and it sounds awesome.
-Zane
This sig is worse than my last.
For the amount of money you want to spend you'll probably need to go for products that have the best 'bang for the buck'.
Yamaha and Denon are generally considered to be the highest quality receivers for the amount of money you spend on them. I've owned both and were equally pleased with both. Currently, I own a Denon AVR-2801 which i bought for $450 online ($50 shipping) and it normally sells for $700. It's OK to buy your receiver online because you can demo them in the store and then generally get a better deal online. Watch out for warranty problems though as not all manufacturers are happy about honoring the warranties of products sold over the web. TWO IMPORTANT THINGS: Does the receiver have a Dolby Digital decoder? You'll want to get a receiver equipped with a DTS decoder as well if you can. Dolby Digital and DTS are surround sound standards that a lot of DVDs are encoded with. Dolby Digital is by far more prevalent, but DTS is catching on. ALSO, make sure the receiver has all the inputs and outputs you need. (Be sure to set aside money for interconnects and speaker cable. I've spent about $500 on mid-grade cable/wire alone.)
As far as the speakers go, DEMO DEMO DEMO. People that try and shove their brands down your throat saying they're the best are full of sh*t. The right speaker for you is just that...the right speaker for you. Speaker selection is a personal, subjective thing so look through some magazines, find some good brand names and go demo them at your local stereo/home theater shops. Trust me and do this...you'll be much happier with your purchase if you spend time listening to the speaker set you buy.
(NOTE: most quality speakers cannot be sold online per manufacturer mandate. I've only seen Klipsch and PSB. Wouldn't even consider buying Klipsch but I've heard good things about PSB. Canadian brands tend to follow the 'more bang for the buck' philosophy because of government funded research into acoustics that is free to Canadian companies...something to consider.)
...to see bose and sony taken seriously on slashdot - c'mon kids, they're the respective compaq and microsoft of the stereo industry - all you're paying for when you buy their stuff is an (apparently effective) advertising campaign.
now, as far as getting the best performance, you should return that dvd(tm) player and exchange it for one that has a coaxial digital output. i'm guessing that by optical output you mean that it has a toslink(tm) output; most toslink fiber optic cables are made of plastic instead of glass, and they introduce a ton of jitter (pcm timing shifts), which makes it sound like ass on a stick. so unless you're willing to spend $100+ for a glass toslink cable, go with coax.
otherwise, for receivers, make sure the thing weighs a lot. it sounds wierd, but the most common area that receiver manufacturers scimp on (ahem, sonypioneeraiwakenwoodharmon) is the transformers, and since there's (supposed to be) 5 separate amplifiers inside the thing, it needs to be able to have a lot of power in reserve. this'll work as a good test until they start putting lead weights in their recievers like apple used to with the apple i.
anyway, brands that are built well: marantz, paradigm, b&k, nht, mission, vanderstein, and i guess b&w (i don't like them, but they are built well.)
and, no matter what, do not buy any thing at worst lie i mean best buy. nothing they have is good; even their yamaha stuff (normally really good) is worse than the yamaha stuff they sell at specialty stores.
I have a set-top machine that I use as an MP3 jukebox and a DVD player. Currently I have the sound going out through an old soundblaster into the AUX input on my cheapass all-in-one-box mini stereo system.
I would like to upgrade to a soundcard and receiver that can connect digitally, and do the decoding in the reciever (so that the signal is not analog inside the box with all that electrical noise). I want the system to support true 5.1 output.
I would appreciate recommendations for soundcards and recievers to use in a setup like this. I have been told that the Soundblaster Live series has a digital output, but that it folds all the 5.1 channels into a stereo signal before sending it to the digital output, thus destroying the 5.1 effect. So I would like to find another option.
Thanks for the help, guys.
"Research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing." -- Wernher von Braun
I would very much like to know anything you learn (or may have already learned) in terms of answering this question, whether here or elsewhere. Would you do me the favor of sending me email if you get any major insights on this?
Thanks much.
"Research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing." -- Wernher von Braun
First, does your TV have and Optical In jack? If it does, use it.... If not, I'd use S-Video straight from the DVD to the TV. Much better picture and less interferance than a coaxial cable. :)
Secondly, I'm going to assume that your DVD player has Dolby Digital 5.1 out jacks. Make sure you get a 5.1 Dolby digital decoder, or if you are going the way of an all-in-one system make sure the reciever has Dolby Digital 5.1 support. That's the REAL surround sound. I had a system that 'faked it', but when I got the money and got a real system it became obvious that there is no comparison between the two. Well worth the money.
Now, If you are going the component rout, get a nice rack so you can rack mount your decoder, pre-amp, and amp. Building it that way is more expensive but much more flexable. You could even mount a linux box in there and play mp3's through your system if you wanted. All that's left are the front and rear speakers, center speaker, and sub woofer. You can pick those out using the rest of your budget. You might over shoot your budget....but hey, it's not like you won't be using it. Just make sure the speakers can handle the output of your amp. It would suck if you blew them out on the first day.
OR...
You can just cheap-out and go to the local audio-video store and buy the 'home theater in a box' that's on sale for $600 that has everything you need and will do all that you want it to do. You can even buy four of those $60 speaker stands with the cash you have left over.
Personally, I don't know which name brands are the best and how much they should cost. I cheaped-out and bought a Sony Home Theatre System at Bryn Mawr. It sounds great. I have my DVD, VCR, Computer, and Cable TV hooked up to the reciever. DVD's sound awsome. The mp3's off my computer sound good too. Nothing like endless music of all your favorites.
We've got a setup pretty similiar to what you're talking about getting: 30+" TV, great audio The Sony DA777ES reciever is a pretty good piece - runs about $1400, and has all the bells and whistles that you could want. Supports DTS + Dolby 5.1 sound. Use the coaxial inputs rather than the optical (better sound), and put some serious money into the speakers. In all seriousness, the speakers make a huge difference. Spend some money, and do the research. Go listen to them - Nothing beats first hand experience. We have a pair of B&W 603's for the front, a 6-series center, 302's for the rears, and a Polk PSW-250(I think) for a sub. Although a little pricey (The whole system ran about $3500 for audio, DVD+TV $1700). But, no matter what you do - Go listen to it! Don't buy anything unless you've heard it - And have fun!
Harmon Kardon (HK) makes the best receivers. They use totally discrete circuitry, which is much warmer and louder than comparable amplifiers. They're also probably the most expensive ($600-700 for a DTS receiver), but the sound quality is well worth i.
Companies like Yamaha tend to add a lot of features (acoustical shaping, 10-band EQ, etc), which never quite substitute in sound.
Speakers depend on yourmusic preference. I have JBL LXE990's (3-way, 10") which are about $800/pair, but you can get others which are just as nice for less if you don't need the power. They're good for rock music. Bose is better for home theater/movies, but isn't great for loud music. Plus, the reflecting speakers need to be perfectly aligned (if they're not, or you open a window nearby, forget about the sound quality).
Stuff to look for in speakers
Things to avoid
One thing many people forget is RCA cables. If you're hooking up any equipment through analog outputs then DO NOT SKIMP ON THE CABLES. The noise and signal lose in analog cables is very noticable once amplified. Note I'm not referring to coaxial digital connections. If you think you can tell the difference between coax vs. fiberoptic digital connections then your just deluding yourself. If you do hook up your digital I/O with coax get a good cable, but I'd stick with optical hookups because the cables are cheaper for the same quality signal. Well now that I've droned on for an hour, let me close by saying good luck. I'm sure you can put together a very good sounding system for the money; you just have to do your homework. No-one can suggest the optimal system for you without knowing your ears and your listening habits
First of all, Sony's site requires free registration to access products. I like to poison their cache. If anyone wants to look at Sony's AV stuff:
Thank you for registering.
Your new username is: slashdot@slashdot.org
Your password is: User
Now that we have that out of the way; Sony has both A/V packages (sometimes cool, but mostly for small rooms) and receivers. I suggest getting just the receiver from Sony, and buying speakers elsewhere. Why Sony? Because they're inexpensive, reliable, and feature-laden. They have two lines; Normal shit, and "ES". I like to buy the normal receivers, because they're black :)
Right now, I have a STR-DE345. It does have digital (optical and coaxial) input, but does not have S-Video switching. This, of course, is silly. It's 80 watts per channel discrete, and so on.
What I'm *going* to buy is the STR-DE845. This is the next to highest of the non-ES receivers. Just so you don't have to hunt through the maze of Sony's website:
The MSRP on this sucker is $480, but pricewatch lists it at $345. It does DTS decoding, which is always a nice feature for those of us with one of the many DVDs which are the same box as the Apex, since they all have DTS output. Not that I have any movies with a DTS soundtrack. Even the lower-end unit which I have has a very clean sound; They have a very clean appearance as well, and all the usual features, like being able to rename inputs and radio presets. The remote is a nice fatty Sony "Remote Commander" which unfortunately does not learn, but has presets for a great deal of hardware. (It doesn't appear to control my Panasonic Laserdisc or Sony Betamax decks, though.)
I'm not sure who to go with for speakers these days; Once upon a time, I'd have said KLH. The bottom line is not to listen to anything that the guy at the stereo store tells you. Decide what you're going to buy before you go to the place in which you'll buy it. Their main job is to make money.
And finally, a good subwoofer is *key*. You can not live without a good sub. I have the little 80 watt or whatever that comes with the lower-end sony home theater packages, along with the teensy speakers they give you, and it sounds GREAT - In my room. My room, by the way, is about the same size and restrictiveness as the TEXTAREA into which I'm typing this comment; In other words, damned restrictive. I have used it in larger environments, though, and the subwoofer (and center channel) make up amazingly well for the fact that I have a bunch of 2" speakers, which are admittedly in some very VERY well designed cabinets.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
While we are at it, do you have any subs in particular you would like to recommend? I've heard pretty good things about some Energy models and I've heard some Magnats (IIRC) that sounded the part. But I want something that will really make my furniture shake!
Trian
I'm no longer fed up with MS Windows: I go rid of them
Alternatively, I have a Harman Kardon AVR85 amp (now discontinued, the closest is the AVR200 AFAIK) driving a pair of Canton Ergo 91DC speakers and I have been very satisfied with them.
/audio/ shops and listened to all their models in the price range I was interested in (FYI, all that cost me DEM 2400.00 / USD ~1150 about a year and a half ago, after I'd searched for some good bargains on them).
If you do come across a used AVR85, I recommend it! OK, it doesn't have DTS decoding and 5.1 inputs, but the sound is very good, you get more analog inputs than you're likely to ever need (and 3 digital ones) and generally an amp with a quite rich set of features and good looks.
Having heard H/K stuff, they are very good quality (gimme a Signature 2.0 amp ANYTIME), especially for the money you pay and I chose my Cantons only after I'd shopped round some 15+
Sites you might wanna check:
www.harmankardon.com
www.cantonusa.com
Trian
PS. I'll agree with some other people about the BOSEs' more-marketing-than-quality and the very good sound of B&Ws (but at a bit too high a price for what you get, I think)
I'm no longer fed up with MS Windows: I go rid of them
I don't know if they still make it, but I bought a pretty sweet Aiwa home Theatre about 3 years ago that combined a 4head Hi-Fi VCR, am/fm stereo receiver, 12 inch Sub, 3 front channel speakers, and 2 rear. All that for $500.00 back when this stuff was expensive. I loved the simplicity it offered. All the connections from the VCR/am/fm/aux. are pre-connected to the built in receiver via short RCA cables on the back. In fact, I can listen to TV shows without a TV.
Although I'm sure there are many better sounding systems out there,
It's a system that I would recommend to most people.
If you can tell the difference between high
quality MP3's and CDs, then you'd probably be better off with a more expensive system.
Slashdot was telling me my post was junk when I was naming the components of my future stereo, so I had to take it out. Just ignore that :)
"The numbers I have noted are costs for the pairs of speakers, and while the center channel isn't as good as it could be, I care about music more then movies so I would prefer to spend more on my front L/R speakers."
Only those who dream can grasp reality.
Kenwood makes the best recievers anywhere. However, their speakers aren't much to speak of. Get a Kenwood with Optical in's and surround outs. Then maybe BOSE shelf speakers and you have to have an Infinity woofer.
The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.
Great system, and cost me less than $500 in the HTB503 set with a full set of speakers, sub, it's got DTS, Dolby5.1, optical and coax inputs, and a bunch of svideo passthrus. As a bunch of other people noted I suggest paying a visit to www.audioreview.com, check out their suggestion page http://www.audioreview.com/promo/receiver/top5.sht ml
I'm using a Denon AVR-1600 (now discontinued) and klisch speakers. Very satisified. When you're buying the equipment watch out for grey market merchndise. Its sold by non-certified dealers and can be damaged. Also most high end equipment companies won't honor your warranty without a reciept from a authorized dealer.
While it may be true that there are better speakers than Bose, that doesn't mean that they are bad. I had a pair of mid-size Bose speakers (about 15 years ago) and they were greatly superior to the larger Pioneer speakers which came with the stereo system. Obviously there are better options out there, but there are much worse as well.
Nick http://www.nickspace.com
I've got a Yamaha RXV 2095 and Paradigm Monitor 7s (plus the matching surrounds and center). Love the sound. Yamaha does a 8 channel "thing" which I went ahead and picked up the extra 2 low power speakers for. Not really worth it except to brag that you have more speakers.
I would recomend anything with the Yamaha sound field chips. Most good studios use Yamaha chips to encode Dolby AC-3 and that is still the most widly used method. This chipset does an excelent job with DSP and sony digital as well.
I've had 2 Yamahas and have loved both. Very pure sound and VERY durable. They both handled heavy use and abuse well.
I'll vouch for the Energy Encore system. Very good imaging and range for not a lot of $$$. Granted, the $1500 above would go to the speakers alone (no tuner/amp) But then you should learn that nothing sucks worse than having to buy TWO of something 'cause the first one wasn't what you wanted.
For $1500, you can't get a system that I would call best bang for the buck. Instead you'll have to make compromises, which is fine -- compromises can sound good too. At that amount, you'll have to be willing to trade size for money if you want high quality. I personally would not make this trade. I think speakers make lousy funiture, and people will set their drinks on them. So I would still go smallish. I like Definitive Technology equipment, its a good brand out of America (foreign A/V equipment is not high quality for the most part, imo). Paradigm and Infiniti have some good stuff, but I think Klipsch is too harsh an tinny. For about $1100, you could aprobably get 2 procinema 200's, c2 center, and a 10" subwoofer. This would sound good, and be small, but that only means you have 400 left for a reciever (at your price range you can't good seperates (amp, etc.)). At that rate we'll have to go foreign on your receiver. Yamaha is the only brand that hits that price point with much quality. Yamaha rates there amps like the big boys, so 60 watts/channel will be plenty. If you go Aiwa or Sony or even Pioneer you'll need more like 90 watts/channel. If you must have 5.1 sound, you'll have to buy a package. I think there is one called Take 5 (from Canada, the 51st state), that gets good reviews. But remember companies pay for the reviews so take them with a grain of salt. If you really wanted to go gang for the buck you could get Denon AVR 1100 recever (~$900). And then not buy ok speakers (but they would be big or they would be bad). We really can't talk speaker bang for the buck without spending all of your $1500. Sorry. If I were you I would just save my money for a couple more months.
I would recommend getting a yamaha amp. I have found them to be best quality and most reliable. They range in price, but all are good quality. As far as speakers I would recommend Paradigm. They make really great speakers. The best bang for your buck I think are theier monitor series. Great sound, and not to expensive. If money Is not an option I would recommend looking at their reference series, or even Mirage Speakers. The mirage speakers have a omnipolar design which make a sound field like no other. Hope this helps you out.
Now the next item on your list should be a receiver/decoder/pre-amp/amp. With literally thousands of setups to choose from this can be difficult. Someone mentioned audioreview.com and I second that. It really is a great site for info. As for the setup I would recommend going just with a receiver for starters. Later on down the road when you become a more experienced audiophile you'll want to look at some amps and pre-amps.
For the receiver I'd recommend either Harmon Kardon or Onkyo. Both are consistently the top of their class. For the Harmon Kardon I'd recommend the AVR-510 or the for the Onkyo the TX-DS676. Both are in about the same price range at soundpros.com. All told that'll set you back about $700, but its more then worth it. A good receiver will make a big difference when it comes to how things sound. Also don't let the small watt per speaker number scare you. These receivers will push out more sound and cleaner sound (very high signal to noise of 95db) then a cheaper higher wattage receiver.
The next things to consider are the speakers. For these you will need two fronts, two surrounds, a center and a power sub-woofer. Done right, you can get all of the speakers for under $600. To do that I recommend you shop at Ubid.com. Ubid is a bag of mixed blessings. But for speakers it is almost always a gold mine.
At Ubid I'd recommend that you look at the Wharfedale speakers. They are not very well known outside of Great Britain, but their quality is simply beautiful. I suggest the MFM-7's or Opal100's for your fronts. I've sampled both and the imaging is spectacular, especially the MFM-7's (which I own a pair of). The price you can expect to get a pair of either for is in the range of 110 to 140 each (total of 220 to 280), plus shipping. Next I suggest the Wharfedale Diamond 7.1's or the Opal 30's for your surrounds. Their price and quality are a perfect match for their purpose. They can be expected to go for between $50 and $100 a pair respectively. For the center I recommend the Opal center or the Wharfedale center. Either can be snagged for about $100 (with shipping). The reason I suggest all Wharfedale speakers is because it is usually best to have matching speaker brands in order to maintain sound matching across the speakers. For the final piece, the sub-woofer, there are a number of options available to you. Sub-woofers don't necessarily need to be sonically matched like the speakers. Instead you'll want a sub that lets you feel the explosions and action on the screen. For that I suggest you get a JBL PB10, about $250 at soundpros.com. That'll give you 150 watts of ground thumping goodness. I suggest only the 10inch because there are some nifty techniques you can use for "enhancing" the bass effect.
All together this will run you about $700, with whatever is left over for speaker-wire (at least 12 gauge). Put this all together and pop in a DVD with the THX sound check and listen as the bliss that is surround sound destroys your hearing J. As for the trick with the sub-woofer, make sure you place the sub against a corner, or under something thick and heavy (like an oak desk or something). The effect will amplify the sound by at least 10 to 20 db (no joke).
Well I hope this all helps you guys out. Make sure you read everything you can before buying and check out the home theater sites around the net. There is a lot of info out there and a lot of people that can help you find just what you need. Oh, and enjoy your system!
TraceProgram
Personally I prefer Klipsch. For the money, they're great. For $600?/pair, I got two awesome front speakers. They have a 15" sub in the back, and a 12" sub in the front, there's no need to get a powered subwoofer. Klipsch speakers have, in my opinion, the best midrange horn in the market.
If you have some cash, get a Nakamichi receiver. If not, get a good(middle to top of the line) Pioneer, Sony or JVC receiver.
I personally like my speaker setup, 4 Klipsch in the livingroom, 2 in the bedroom, and 2 in the bathroom(flushmount in the ceiling). I have a nice switchbox that allows me to control the volume on each set, turn on/off each set, individually. I think it was about $120.
Hope it helps,
Justin
P.S. The bathroom speakers are not optional. I was just turning up the livingroom speakers to hear when I was in the shower, but the neighbors started complaining. I live in a house, they're next door.
For instance, I live in an apartment, a space where too much power would kill the overall sound stage. My speakers are all KLH, no sub, the fronts deliver plenty of bass without pissing off my neighbors. Yes, I can get better ones, better sound reproduction, but KLH have always been very good for people on a budget. If you have plenty of money, I would go with Klipch or Cerwin-Vega. Main thing, stay away from Bose or any clone makers. Those cubes may look pretty, but the sound reproduction is sub-par. It's pretty simple physics, you need the large box for accurate sound.
Second, the reciever/decoder. At the moment, I have a Sony DE-835 Dolby Digital/DTS decoder. I have been very happy with this system, and I have always liked Sony. Like I said, I am on a budget, so it is not top of the line, but it works quite well and Sony has many other options for more money. Plus, it has tons of optical inputs. My only problem with it is the number of coax digital inputs; it only has one. Hope this helps you some.
Listen to your system with headphones for a while. Then take the headphones and a familiar CD/DVD along when you evaluate speakers. I found this very useful when buying speakers since it helps determine how the store has their EQ set. They may be trying to compensate for a weak low or high end and it's impossible to know without a reference.
I just retired my $2000 combo of a seperate decoder (Denon AC-3), seperate amp (Adcom GFA-6000 5 channel), and Polk RT-12 tower speakers.
This is not to brag! On the contrary, It was a mistake!
I've replaced the $2k bohemoth, with many remotes and no soft-power with the SONY STR-DB940, which has a learning remote, soft power, great sound, and is very user friendly. Thus far, the included remote:
turns on and controls:
* Denon CD-player (10 year old)
* Mitsubishi TV (10 year old)
* Sony DVD-player
For Speakers I switched to:
* Energy e:XL15s for the front
* Enercy e:XLC for the center
* Polk PSW250 for the subwoofer
and have never been happier...
I didn't expect the perfectly clean static-free signal that I got from my seperates, but at all normal listening volume, the sound is equal or better than my previous system. The sound for movies (with the subwoofer and center channel) is far superior to the previous setup. For music, it's not as good as before, but my system is nearly invisible to guests!
Keep it simple, usable, and don't mortgage your house for ultimate sound. Check out One Call for savings of usually 25 percent off of local theifs like the good guys
It would also help to get educated on home theater terminology, equipment, standards, etc. Even if you don't become a fanatic, it will help you make good choices. Be warned, however, that it can also lead you to neverending desires for every upgrade, tweak, and gadget that comes with the hobby.
First and formost, remember that all audio/video enthusiasts have their own likes and dislikes that won't match yours, so take all advice and opinions with a grain of salt. Your ears are the only ones that matter. If you do your homework, you'll end up okay. That being said, here's my $0.02.
I'm a big Marantz fan. In my opinion, Marantz moves towards or equals high end products like Acurus, Adcom, Mark Levinson and others. But they also have a wide range of receivers in your price range. Check out the SR4000, for example.I've got the SR7000 (@$750) and absolutely love it.
I agree with other posters that speakers are the most important. Spend the most you can on speakers. In your price range, I'd check out the smaller Paradigm, Tannoy, or B&W speakers. If you're looking for a sub/sat system on a tight budget, check out Energy Take-5($500 for the set, if I remember correctly). Then get what you can for your receiver.
It's also important to note that speakers and receivers don't necessarily "match", i.e. they might sound crappy together but with different equipment might sound fantastic. So if you buy the receiver and speakers at the same time, make sure to listen to them together and not on the equipment that the dealer has set up. If you buy one before the other, bring it with you when you go to audition.
Last word of advice: audition, audition, audition. A good dealer will give you the remote control and let you test to your heart's content. Bring your favorite CDs. A wide range of material is good. Also bring a couple DVD's to check out the DD/DTS sound as well. Don't let anyone bully you into making a purchase or offer a "one time sale"...if they do, do you really want to buy your equipment from them?
Good luck!
Surround sound is an absolute con. Nothing of ANY worth ends up in the surrounds, it's not allowed to, it's an unwritten rule of film & TV mixing. Before you completely disregard what I'm saying consider the following: I was once Mixer/technichian at a fairly major sound post-production facility, before bailing on that industry a few years to persue a more structured career with better conditions, I ended up as a sys admin at a web company, so yes, I'm a ranting idiot who shouldn't be listened to :-|
Sound still has to be mixed to the lowest common denominator, mono. This ensures that any plot dialogue or crucial sound effects aren't lost when listened to on crap systems. And the quality of surrond sound is artificially destroyed by the Dolby encoding process for that reason. Basically, all that a mixer can put in the surround channels is a little wind or "atomsphere" noise, reverb and the occasional sound effect but nothing that isn't louder in the front speakers.
Unless you are setting yourself up with a rather large room where the left and right speakers are more than 12ft apart, I wouldn't, and don't, even bother with a center speaker for a home system. The phantom center created by a matched pair of speakers will be of better quality than a center speaker that isn't exactly the same. It really stands out as sound effects are panned across the screen with a center speaker that is different, you can hear the disparity in the frequency response and harmonics form the enclosure as the center is usually of lesser quality than the other two.
And unless you have a n accousticly perfect room, you won't even notice the missing surrounds as the sound form the front speakers bounces of the walls behind you sounds pretty much the same as the crap that would be coming form them anyway.
So my advice, just spend the money on a fairly good PAIR of speakers, amp, decoder and player, you'll be better off and your music listening experience will be less compromised as well.
I get by with a pair of Bang and Olufsen speakers hooked up to my system. It took me years to decide on what I wanted at home as I would troll around all the hifi stores trying to find that "perfect" setup that could match the studio I was working in. I gave up knowing that it was a futile excercise and I would never find such a system that I could afford.
While I've seen a couple of comments that disagree, the B&O stuff is brilliant. The build quality and design are first class and as far as the audio goes, you'd be hard pressed to find their equal in the price range, especially when you consider the fact that most fo the speakers are active so you don't have to buy an amp. Most opinions of B&O epuipment are formed through ignorance and heresay as they, for some unfathomably stupid reason, decide not to advertise the technical details or the manufacturing process of their products. I found out when a friend of mine scored a job there and I got to read the repair manuals and the manufacturing details. The only problem with B&O systems at the moment is that they don't have an AC3 decoder or even a DVD player but I'm told they're well on their way and should be released early this year.
This is getting too long, I will stop now before I go back over what I've written and start appending :)
Flame away audiophiles...
I didn't see it already posted and I'm surpirsed. The Klipsch Promedia V2-400 is the best you can currently get. It costs about $250 and includes the following: 4 60 watt satillites. 1 160 watt twin driver sub. I love these speakers. I mean I love them. They are crisp and brother they are LOUD. Some people complain of a slight hiss from these speakers, but I have not had that problem. I like these so much I bought a second pair. 800 watts of power baby! You can order them from the Klipsch website. http://www.klipsch.com
*You Said I Won't, I Said I Don't, But I Just Might*
Very few of these tweaks are "right" or "wrong", except that some of them may sound better or worse to your ears or in your listening environment.
The best idea is to check out a few similarly-appointed models, while mimicing as closely as possible the target listening environment. Think about what you have now and what you like or don't like about how it performs. Then you'll be able to make a choice that works for you. (And audiophile religious cults be damned.)
That said, I think that Yamaha makes some RIGHTEOUS equipment and you should probably take a look at it. I have the 995 and it totally rocks. Got it for less than $1K as well.
I am also an owner of a 36 inch sony tv, wega in my case. I have been doing a lot of research recently into upgrading my system and was looking in about the same price range.
For a reciever I would reccomend Denon. They make some of the best gear per dollar. Just check out thier feature sets at any price. The only thing to make sure of is that you get their 32bit sharc processors. That will ensure high quality audio.
For speakers I would reccomend B&W, which I saw someone else reccomend earlier. I auditioned Dynaudio and B&W pretty seriously, and decided on the B&W's. Like the Denon, this brand offers great value. Anything in the 600 line will work, I settled on the 603's.
Hope this helps.
I've been into the Home Theater field for about 3 years now. Initially I started off with around a $1200 system that, for all practical purposes, would please the average home listener. There are several key points to any good home theater. 1. Quality Speakers. Don't by the cheapest thing you can find at circuit city. Shop around on the net. Look at some brands like Klipsch, Polk Audio, Infinity. These are all decent brands that won't cost you an arm and a leg. Listen to the speakers in the store before purchasing anything. If you find a good audio shop, most will even let you try them at home for a week or so before buying. You'll be amazed at the differences you can hear between brands. 2. Quality Output Components (DVD, CD, MD, etc) Make sure the DVD player, CD player, etc, you buy has good outputs. Digitally Coaxial or optical at least. Line level RCA outputs are outdated and the sound quality is sub par. You can also actually save a few bucks on cabling if you go to an optical connection from your DVD player, because using line level RCA is going to require 6 sets of RCA's. (5.1 channel sound, 1 for each channel. In my home system, I went with all Sony components. Sure, Sony consumer level products aren't the best on the market, but the sound difference was negligable, and its amazingly simple to operate all your components from ONE remote when you have all Sony equipment. I would expect this to go for any brand, Kenwood, JVC, Toshiba, etc. 3. Good cabling. Many people think a cable is a cable. Wrong. When I built my system I initially used a 200 ft spool of generic speaker wire from Walmart. I thought it sounded fine. When I upgraded my DVD player I decided to upgrade the wiring as well, since spending $1200 on your system, and only using $10 wire didn't make much sense. I upgraded to monster cable for all my speakers, and nice Horizon optical cable for all my connections. The sound difference was easily noticeable. It really did sound like a different system. The main thing is to do your own research before going to the store. The saleman is always going to try to persuade you into buying this and that, and most of the time they are things you dont need. I did all my research on the web before purchasing and saved myself quite a bit of money. Hope this helps.
I figured that I'd start out cheap before taking a big plunge, and see if cheap worked well enough.
I found the Midiland S4-8400, and it works great. Cost is about $350 from most mail order sources.
It does pretty much all of what you're looking for, but it will not shake the walls of a large room. It is definitely not the last work in audiophile technology, but I think it sounds great, and the surround stuff is terrific. I'd give it a go and see if it meets your needs. If not, ebay it and move on to the expensive suggestions.
You can't go wrong with anything from these three companies -- NAD makes excellent amps.. check out the NAD T770 receiver. As for anything you must hear it for yourself because you are making the purchase and listening to it. Check out http://www.audioreview.com it has user rated reviews on just about every audio product you can name! (and many yah probably haven't heard of!) You are going to always get what yah pay for (except for BOSE which sucks shit) Don't go brand name electronics and don't go to Future Shop ....etc. 'cause you'll get shit from people who don't know shit... Find a local audiophile shop and talk to knowledgable sales people.
Also remeber -- DON'T FORGET ABOUT GOOD CABLING... a sound system is only as good as it's weekest link!
thats my rant.......
bose sucks shit
You absolutely must check out B&W Speakers. They're imported from across the pond, and nothing even compares to their sound. The midrange/bass cones are woven kevlar which (a) produce exceedingly clear signal response, and (b) since they're bright yellow, look damn cool.
I have a pair of B&W 601 S2s (I paid $450/pair) on the left/right channel and a CC6 S2 ($360) for the center channel... and some cheap bookshelf speakers on the rears. Do *not* get a cheap center channel speaker; you will pay with crappy sound.
The received I use is a Sony STR-D845... I'm pretty happy with it. I know Sony commonly includes a feature called Auto Format Decode, which monitors the digital *inputs*, figures out the format, and decodes appropriately. Do other receivers do this?
-- Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
The B&W 601s are great speakers, I've had a pair for almost two years now and have enjoyed them immensely.
FEH!!!
3dlan.com --> Monthly lan parties in Western NY
here's a list of what i have and a list of what you should look into
i seriously suggect you have DTS. its rad to listen to good movies in it. If you have the money then go for THX as well. and the optical out is for DTS, use it. i suggest you get...
Harman Kardon AVR 510
Polk RT35i Front
Polk RT25i Surround
Polk RT245i center
Sub of your choice, probably from polk
Amps from harman and NAD are
spectacular in claritiy and precision.
So stick with these. The wattage on
HK and NAD is usually does not compare with RMS
rating most producers use, because of
30 - 10 times more amperage, so you get no
distortion.
With polks - they are cheap and superrior to
anything I have heard so far. Overdriven they do
not loose clarity until driver starts to hit the
physical tavel limit. Distortion, like midrange
going away, with high base is non existent.
Qualtiy of harman amps is not Sony, but quality
is where they are best. Sort of same thing
with Sonys Trinitron CRTs...
Good luck, stick to harman amps, definetly see
to try RT series speakers from polk.
Should be on your short-list for speaker manufacturers. They specialize in bipolar speaker design (front and back firing drivers, not manic depressive woofers), and their products range in size from massive towers with built-in amplified subwoofers down to more slender towers lacking the built in amps and side-firing 18" LF driver. I understand that using a pair of the big ones up front and a pair of the smaller ones (same drivers, or same tweeters, minimally) for surround rocks. They make a center channel speaker, but I don't think it is a bipolar design - that should not have an impact on the voice-matching between the front three. Granted, the system I just put together in ASCII will cost ~2300 for speakers alone, but you can go much cheaper with DT and not sacrifice sound quality - only sound depth with those dual built-in 18" subs. Also check out Roton for Adcom-quality solid state components at half the price. Those British can apparently craft solid electronics.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
What do you think of the use of FET's in power amps?
What is the most *realistically* accurate objective measure of performance in a power amp?
Thanks!
I definitely appreciate your comments about the subtleties of audio system configuration.
What do you think is the value of the IM rating?
By the way, I no longer buy anything but professional audio gear. I believe it represents a *much* better value proposition than consumer gear, including audiofile equipment. Even a compact Mackie mixer and a QSC or Crown monitor amp with modest Tannoy, JBL or Mackie nearfield monitors sounds better to me than any high-end hi fi system I've ever heard (with the possible exception of MacIntosh.)
I'd go with Paradigm speakers and a Yamaha amp. The Paradigms never fail to impress me and the Yamaha Dolby Digital/DTS amps are also very good.
I have spent the last 3 years of my life (with an unlimited budget) in search of the ultimate home theater. Yes, my wires are pure silver dipped in the finest rubber. Yes I have had hundreds of digital amplifers, TV's, receivers, cards, boxes, japanese, plasma, lcd, yada yada... everything. I also lived in Hong Kong for 12 years, which is the capital of the best A/V gadgets I have ever seen. Here is what I have learned... 1) You are only as good as your Receiver. Get a Denon... don't waste money... any top of the line Denon will do. 2) You are only as good as your Remote Control. 3) There is only one remote control... Sony RM-VL900, if you get anything else you are silly, Remotes with lcd displays (the $200 ones) are useless... you get places much faster with buttons, program the macros into the Sony and you are done, you will never have to get off your ass again and can switch effortlessly between Audio and Vidoes signals and mix them up however you want. 4) HDTV's are nice... but waste money somewhere else, i.e. get a new PowerMac G4 with iDVD so you can make your own DVD's. HDTV is obviously the future but there arent enough channels right now and we havent seen any of the new mpg-4 enabled set top boxes yet. 5) I have a Sony Vega 36"... nuff said. Plasmas and LCD's are the future, but right now the Vega Tube is a pretty class act. I have an Apple Cinema display 22" and I watch DVD's on it all the time, but its $3999 for 22" (best money you will ever spend) 6) Speakers... get Energy... best bang for the buck... As I said before, I have an unlimited budget and I use Energy's. 7) Subwoofers... I use Energy... Always remember that not all Subs are Magnetically Shielded. If you can squeeze HSU Research Sub into your setup (they are big), I certainly recommend those too... although it may stop your heart. 8) You are only as good as your center channel... with the increase in Dolby Digital and Dolby Prologic sources it becomes important for voices and mid-range bass to be accurately displayed by your center channel. James Earl Jones voice will sound like a fairy without a properly sized center channel (ie not one of those little Bose's or the rinky dink speakers that come with your average 5 speaker bundle). I cannot put into words all the subtleties involved with getting really nice pictures and sounds to come out of a digital set up... so much simply doesn't work together and every thing electrical emits "noise" of some kind. Eliminating noise and vibration are the hardest things to do in home theater. Sound proof rooms with padded everything is expensive ya know. You also have to remember its not about getting your ears to bleed, its about hearing Charlize Theron wisper in your ear. I hope this helps some really lazy people. Thats what I have turned into now that i have the ultimate A/V rig.
"Smokey, this isn't Nam, there are rules." -Walter
I have the Energy Encores powered by a Marantz SR-7000, terrific sound for the price, although over your pricepoint... You could use the SR-5000 and get the Energy Take-5 set, but I found the Take-5 midrange doesn't quite get down to the subwoofer, so there's a sonic hole in the sound...pretty apparent even to my untrained ear.
I am a gadget junkie, so my receiver is the Sony ES 555. It has an lcd touchscreen universal remote that can control up to 12 items. It has optical outputs for excellent quality. All of my other components are Sony so by pressing the off button on my remote, everything shuts off at the same time. It also comes with a S-link that enables the devices to talk with each other. The CD player tells the receiver the name of the CD and Track. The receiver displays it on the remote. Too Cool!!
FIRELUV
First, I highly recommend checking out the newsgroup alt.home-theater.misc. There are 10,000 people on there that ask this exact question every week and all the answers you want (including web links to reviews and specs) are posted in that NG.
Just as a warning, NOBODY in there likes any of the Bose systems and very few like Sony. Personally, I have a 100% Sony home theater (including the XBR400) and I absolutely _love_ it.
On to the recommendations. If you're on a budget, the Kenwood HTB-503 system is a Dolby Digital and DTS capable receiver and somes with decent speakers for about $400 to $500 or their HTB-503 DV model for about $100 to $150 more. Likewise, the RCA RT2250 system is not too shabby for the price.
I also suggest you check out www.audioreview.com and read up on the specs and user reviews of the producs before making a final decision.
Hope this info helps!
zman404
enough said
"God is dead." - Nietzsche
"God does not play dice with the Universe." - Albert Einstein
"Stop telling God what to do." - Niels Bohr
Mine is powered by an ancient Grundig amplifier called the LT 227 (not very much of a meaningful name, is it?), and I've added a 5-way Surround decoding circuit to the outputs as well as a difference channel for the main speakers. The best thing is that the entire hardware has cost me about twenty bucks. Except for the home theater bit, that's a Mac PowerBook G3 :-)
As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
Well, it is difficult to decide from your post on what system is "the best" because it depends on personal taste (does a lot of "Kawumm" Bass make a good system for you?) and the room situation.
You should try and go out to respected dealers like Magnolia Hifi and go into their test rooms.
But, since I don't wanna make this a stupid "go figure it our for yourself post" let's try it anyway.
1) you have a limited budget of 1500$ which rules out a lot of Receiver options like BK or high class Denons. Good quality for the buck is delivered by Sony. You should try to look out for special deals on Sony "ES" (elevated standard) Receivers like the Sony STR-V333ES . You should be able to get a deal at around 700$. You really should go for the ES standard components here because of better parts used in the system.
2) Speakers. Hmmmm, this is a real personal taste question. I, personally, made good experiences with Bose systems like the Acoustimass 10 which sells at $999 and gives you the freedom to hide the middle and lower frequency module anywhere in the room while putting up only stylish little speakers. JBL is also a good choice and, usually, slightly cheaper. So, I hope this helps a little.
I'd have to agree. I bought a pair of 10" DCM's at Circuit City (one of my friends works in the audio dept. so I got them cheap.) The sound quality is excellent and doesn't decline much at high volumes (important if you throw parties).
-BrianIf your DVD player and TV allow for it, use a component cable (RGB) for video straight from the DVD to the TV.
Steer clear of stores like Best Buy, Circuit City and just about anything with 'warehouse' in the name. Find a home theater store with lots of choices and sales people who are patient and not too pushy. Listen to lots of different speakers/systems and let your own eyes/ear decide what is best. Also - Make sure you using components similar to yours when trying things out. If they demo speakers with a killer Denon and a stack of Accuphase amps, you cannot expect the same performance from your $500 JVC.
I think the top end Sony along with the Acoustimass 15 Bose Speakers is the best. Thats what I am running, and I have yet to hear anything that touches it.
Mike
Mike
http://www.datalinknet.net
Let's just say keep your factory system
I checked out a Miata where the sales guy was hyping the Bose stereo. I was not impressed
My system:
Alpine amp and mids.
RF Sub (8") (Want to go to pioneer FAs and loose the box
Nakamichi head unit.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
I get decent sound out of my system
JVC 888 amp
Pioneer front (don't rember the model, but they sound fine and the price was right.)
Infinity Sub 15" and wall mounted surround sound speakers.
JBL S-Center
No, this is not an audiophile system, but yes it does sound beter than bose.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Take, for example, the Bose Wave Radio. My mom has this radio. It cost something like $500! Yes, it sounds better than most crappy boomboxes, because it can deliver bandwidth broader than like 3KHz. It's fairly well designed. The speakers, though small, receive a bass boost from the fact that they are in very small, well folded transmission line enclosures. This is a good design idea. TLs work good in these kinds of apps, and most other good audio companies don't have the financial wherewithal to set up tooling to produce the folded enclosure at a reasonable price, even though it's just a molded hunk of plastic. Sounds ok, right?
The thing is, Bose yammers on and on about their "Patented Wave-guide Technology". TLs have been in use for something like 70 years. I don't remember how long. Many companies make TL enclosed systems, they are well understood and documented at length in Dickinson. Further, the demo in the bose store shows the power of the waveguide by setting up a bose wave radio with a lever that pops the speakers an inch or two out in front of the speaker so you can see what a difference the wave guide makes. That's such a BS demo.
It does show that the system works, the speakers sound like shit out of the enclosure, but it's very misleading. Any speaker would sound horrible out of the enclosure because of the tremendous phase cancellation. Just mounting the speaker in a large baffle would do a lot for it. So regular moms and stuff come into the bose store and bose is like, "check THIS out!" and moms aren't like thinking about physics and stuff, so they fork over $500 for this dumb miracle radio.
That's why audio people get so ticked off about Bose.
jeb.
jeb.
Firstly a little defence of Bose.
While their Acoustimass systems are more for appearance than actual performance, they aren't the only range of speakers that they make.
Bose also make some excellent Direct/Reflecting speakers (their x01 range) i have some 301's and they're great.
As for amps, with good sound, decent features and quality digital components, go for Yamaha. Their Natural Sound range of amps/recievers are excellent value for money.
Get some decent full-size bose speakers, and match them to a yamaha amp and you won't look back
-- kai
Verbing Weirds Language.
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
Why don't you have widescreen in the US. I know that Sony telly will do Letterbox, but I thought with DVD reaching ubiquity and most DVDs being at least 16:9 ratio that you'd have them by now.
Come on USA - we know you like it BIG.
Here it is in a (large) nutshell:
c ts F.html
The absolute #1 thing in home theater sound is setting it set up correctly and having a good room to put it in. The #2 thing is "first see the #1 thing". I can make a $1,000 system sound better than a $20,000 system if the expensive system is incorrectly set up. Better equipment only closes that last few percentage points of performance.
I have been into home theater for a little over ten years, and stereo systems before that. I have built up my system over the years to the point where it is really a professional-level system, or at least most of it. I don't recommend getting this equipment unless you want to spend way too much money for a totally bleeding-edge system. Yes, even no REAL Theater can touch you, but you pay allot for that last 10% of performance.
However, the post said how to get more "umph!" in your system, and what are we running. I think it helps to ask someone who has a higher-level system what a good budget-sensitive system is.
Any "high end" system is going to use separate components for everything as opposed to an all-in-one unit. But systems like these would be hard to build for less than say $6,000 - $10,000, and that's even if you get some of it used (a really good idea BTW).
You did not say if the $1500 was just for the AMP/processor or for AMP/Processor AND speakers. Look at what I would recommend at the bottom. I think what I recommend will have more meaning if you read what I have, and why I chose it. Bear with me.
Here is my system as it stands currently:
Note to other high-end people: Yes, you can argue some of these choices. I know I did.
TV (wide screen): Princeton Graphics AF30.HD, 32" HDTV (about $4,000)
http://www.princetongraphics.com/Products/Produ
This unit has the best picture quality currently possible for NTSC (DVD/LD/VHS, etc.) of it's size and rivaled only by expensive (over $25K) projectors for HDTV.
DVD player: APEX (region free, Macrovision free) (about $180)
This DVD is not very good, but it is cheap and I can watch my Japanese region 2 imports. I am going to get a Toshiba to do high quality region 1.
Note: I also have Laserdisc, SVHS, Satellite dish, and so on, but it's not really relevant. If you want to know what these are, e-mail me.
Surround Processor: Lexicon DC-1 w/ modules for THX, Dolby Digital, DTS, etc. (about $6,000)
http://www.lexicon.com/DC1/index.html
This is basically the upgradeable PC of the surround processor world, as they come out with things like DTS ES (6.1) and DD EX, etc., I can upgrade my unit rather than replacing it. Then you get much higher quality components that get re-used. Incidentally, Lexicon actually makes the equipment that they use to transfer films to DVD, so this unit is (arguably to some) about as good as it gets. Lexicon has since come out with 2 models above this, but my money isn't burning a hole in my pocket to upgrade just yet (more inputs, better D/As). You can find this unit used on E-bay sometimes for about $3,000.
Amplifier: Outlaw Audio, 165 watts X 5 (about $1,100)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products.html
You can spend ALOT more for an AMP. But cost/vs. performance no one will mess with you. Why this type of rig sounds so much better than all-in-one systems would take awhile to explain and took me years to finally figure out through all the controversy that there is in the home theater world. But if Slashdot readers are interested in What REALLY makes the difference in all that money that is NOT just a fancy faceplate and a big name, might be worth writing for the perspective of someone who is not a crazed home-theater person might be worthwhile.
Subwoofer: BAG END Elf, 18" and 400 watts self-powered. (About $1,500)
http://www.bagend.com/
I'm surprised more people don't know about these. This is what separates the men from the boys in home theater, even if you added it to an otherwise low-end system. Again, the reasons would tie in to a much more lengthy explanation. Suffice to say, this is weapons-grade bass for home theater or even just audio (which virtually nothing can do BOTH well). These are those things you read about, you know, crack foundations, resonate human bowels, knock-out the neighbors so they can't complain, etc.). Quite a conversation piece too. Lucky for me my neighbors are deaf (not kidding), but they do tell me they "feel" something sometimes.
Speakers: All Cambridge Sound Works, about $800 worth for 5 speakers. (I have 7 though)
Yes, that's right, comparatively cheap speakers in an otherwise high-end system. Most don't believe it until they hear my system. I found that there are MANY speakers out there that are a little better, and even much better than these, but in order to get MUCH better you have to spend about $2,000 each for them rather than $200 each. So you get maybe 10% more performance for 10 times the price (or more). And remember, I am saying this from the perspective of MOST PEOPLE, not cracked-out high-end people. A wise person told me that there are about a 1000 brands of speakers out there. About 100 of them are good, so you have to say NO to 99 good speakers. Also, never decide on speakers by listening to them in the showroom. It is impossible to judge speakers this way. Only buy from a place that will let you take them home and try them first. If they won't, then they don't know how to sell speakers.
There is lots of other in-between stuff like cabling, but you could go on forever with it. I think this covers the major issues. I have friends who have systems that cost well over $100,000.00 that help me devise my opinions. It really puts things in perspective.
And now for the good (and short) part, my recommendations. To those who know anything about the equipment above, this should catch your interest. Don't worry; I'm ready to divert emergency power to my mail server for all those who disagree. Remember what they say about opinions.
Tailor the below to up to or over $1500, with speakers, and you will still do well. Remember #1 that setting it up correctly matters more than anything that you buy in home theater.
Here you go:
Processor/AMP: Onkyo (from about $500 to $3,000) take your pick, they are all good.
I have tried Yamaha, Kenwood, Pioneer, and others. But Onkyo is the all-around best in my opinion. And you don't have to take my word for it; the online reviews you can find will back me up. Oh, and BTW, SONY makes nice TVs and stuff, but they can't seem to make a stereo worth sh$... if you know what I mean. You have to buy the SONY ES units for way too much money, and then they are ONLY as good as the regular units from other brands. Other people may like them but I think they are crap.
Speakers: Cambridge Sound works. Take your pick.
Just pick out a package with the Onkyo and whatever you want to spend on speakers. And you're done.
If you want to know how to set it up correctly (the key), then consult the DVD/LD "Video Essentials" or the LD "A video Standard". Then it is just a question of what compromises you make in room setup. Few people will, or care, to implement all the ideas in Video Essentials. That will determine how good the result is, or shall I say how "good enough" it is. On video, the environment counts for about 50% of the picture quality, about 30% on calibration/set up (needs to be done professionally http://www.imagingscience.com/), and alas, only 20% on how good the equipment is. On audio it is something like 20%/65%/15%.
-DEFORMER
deformer@%nospam%mediaone.net
"Do unto others, before they DO you!" - Benny Hill
I got an old projector for free :-) It doesn't do data although you can hook your computer up through video out. It simply rox to have a screen the size of 10 big screen tv's.
I didn't use my computer for tv though. I simply got an old vcr. The projector also has s-video in so I can use the stand-alone dvd player on that port.
My advice, buy a good projector for videosignal, it's a lot cheaper. Oh yeah, you need a dark room, but that is what enjoying movies is all about.
I think Denon got good reviews here. Personally, I want to invest my money in the AVD1 (Europe) version. It's a THX amp which has EX capability (extra rear channels) as used in the latest Star Wars movies and some others. The only setback is you have to pay around $1,500 or more for it, but you'd have a future proof kick ass amp. I wont have any money for the speakers left though :( KEF has good THX certified speakers, but they cost even more than the amp.
Anyways, I think it's best to buy a cheap system or a real expensive one. You should be able to find a cheap system that does well, instead of paying twice as much for no significant increase in performance ... or go THX all the way and save a couple of $$$ first
Check out http://www.primenet.com/~kennyb/thx.htm The quest of Kenny Bellew who obviously put a lot of time in finding the right equpment, and you will need a bit of time to read it, but if you plan on spending that kind of money you'd better check it out. And it convinced me once more that THX is awesome. Anyone have that great trailer with Tex and the cows? I'd pay Lucas film a lot of money if they would bother releasing it on DVD, or is it on one allready?
I've got a Sony STR-DE925 and B&W speakers. B&W speakers rock. The B&W bookshelf speakers are awesome including the CC6 center. For the rear I have a pair of Rock Solids (made by B&W) and a B&W 12" active sub. B&W kick a$$!!
Okay, here's my setup:
:)
- ---------------
-Sony DB940 reciever (approx $500), DTS, Dolby Digital, has optical and coaxal digital inputs, 110w x 5 channels. in a nutshell it's an ES for $200 less (even the sony rep told me that one)
-Boston Micro 80 front and center speakers ($100 each) good all around satellite speakers
-Boston Micro 80 matched rears ($200 / pair) bi-polar, voice matched for the fronts
-DCM 10" 100watt powered sub ($200) a steal for that price, and damn good
-monster cabling (~$200)
so for around $1400 i think i got a killer sound syster...
-----------------------------------------------
------
"And may your days be long upon the earth."
I like Yamaha, but my system doesn't meet the price requirement of only $1500. The speakers alone almost do, but not quite. Of all the components that change the sound with distortion and frequency range, the speakers make the most difference. Don't be cheap here. Get ones that sound like a cement block when you knock on them, not a hollow log or plastic bucket. They will be heavy and add the least coloration and distortion to the sound. Yamaha NS-1000's rock. There is a lot of discussion here on Bose. I have heard several Bose systems and I find due to the direct reflecting system, they do fill a room with sound, however the sound is heavely colored by the room accoustics which is ok for making a flat studio music recording sound alive, but I find movie stuff and live music altered by the Bose, so outdoor and other outside stuff still has a warm room sound. I went with the Yamaha Natural Sound system instead. If you are crampted for space, then the BOSE system is ok as your room has the acoustics of a small room or den anyway.
The truth shall set you free!
OOps on the wire. Speaker damping is the inverse of the impedance of the output of the receiver + the resistance of the wire. Only a fool uses 120 ohm impedance speaker wire in a high end system that is 22 or 24 AWG and expects the receiver to properly damp speakers with it's 0.02 ohm output impedance. The resistance of the wire reduces the damping ability of the speakers by more 10X if the wire has as little as 0.2 ohms or more. (resistance not impedance) Resistance affects the DC performance of a wire (damping & power handeling) & impedance affects the high frequency performance of the cable. Idealy, a cable should match to the speakers like a coax matches to an antenna. (remember RG58 network cable required 50 ohm terminations on each end?) Resistance should be very low to reduce loss and the wire impedance should match the load (speaker) impedance for flat frequency response. (no coloration) Most speaker cables have a higher impedance than the speakers. (20-120 ohm typical) Most manufactures do not advertise the impedance of speaker cable. Many people think high capacitive values kill highs in a speaker cable and avoid that wire, but it actualy counters the inductive impedance of the wire and is needed to lower the impedance of the cable to match the speaker impedance. Anybody who works a lot with RF knows this is a sound transmission line fact. Impedance mismatches screw up a system.
The truth shall set you free!
Does the sound system on the TV mee the $1500 price limit? I know they don't give Infiniti's away. I have heard a few and they have a very good natural sound with little coloration.
The truth shall set you free!
Polk or Klipsch speakers and Yamaha components, Adcom, Crest or Carver for amplifiers if you can afford it. Also, try to go with a store that will let you try out a setup in your house - an acoustic environment probably completely unlike their store. Don't let anybody tell you what sound you like - it's YOUR ears!
meh.
Sorry, not much of a TV watcher, so can't really get into this video-centric point of view ;)
Hi-Fi: NAD THX something amp, NAD 1600? preamp, Mission 770 speakers, Straitwire Encore cables, Philips turntable (w/handmade walnut base), Discwasher goldplated audio cables, Denon 3 motor something or other cassette deck, Denon cheap-o CD player. If it all sounds old, it should, I haven't added anything to it in years, but it still shakes the walls and comes close to causing a cardiac arrest. Next -> a glass audio system. Rebuilding a Dyna STA 35
--
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I use A Pioneer VSX-27 that I picked up for 1000. If your looking for a good receiver that is clean, its a good buy. Its THX-Ultra certified and has built in DTS decoder. If you ever used laserdisc, it has a bult in AC-3 RF de-modulator. It also carries 2 SPDIF (digital over an RCA cord) and 3 TOSLINK (fiber optic) connectors. So you can connect your Sound Blaster Live!, PS/2, Apex 600A and still have a digital link left for a DirectTVs new boxes.
http://audioreview.com/reviews/avreceiver/index_by name.shtml
I have this setup in my living room, which is about 25'x38', and it is a wonderful sounding system that didn't cost me that much (about $600 at Cambridge Soundworks.
I know it's not "The Best" system, but definately decent for the budget.
--The space between my ears was intentionally left blank--
Definately get components that handle both the Digital Audio and the composite video output. From a Sony DVD player (with both) to my Sony Vega TV (whoo!) (with both) the quality of A/V is astounding.
(Then when you get a playstation2, you can take full advantage of it (it also has digital + composite video)).
My aunt has a Citation 6-Axis Reciever. Amazing little thing.
For Speakers, she has a 6 Point Surround Sound System consisting of Martin-Logan Speakers (Mmmmmm... Electrostatic Sound Goodness...)...
The Sub TREE that Martin-Logan sells is AMAZING... a Tree of Six to Twelve 10" Subs. It's amazing sound quality.
I run a Sony STR-DA50ES as my dolby digital receiver. It has lots of inputs, esspeically optical, and is very user friendly. There is a newer version out called the STR-DA555ES. There isn't much difference between the two. It'll run you about 800-1k... I don't remember the exact number.
I didn't like the sound of the power amplifier section of the Sony (don't take my word, be your own judge) so I mated the Sony to a Sunfire Cinema Grand. I love the Cinema Grand but it is outside most peoples budget at $2K+. So the Sunfire made the power amp section sound perfect.
For speakers I am running a pair of Alesis Monitor One's as my left and right mains. These are studio reference monitors and not for everyone. They make great recordings sound as they were meant to be heard and bad recordings well sound not so good. They are very true to the source material with the best midrange clarity I have heard to date. I am using a set of Klipsch for my center and rear channels but there's nothing special about them. They were the closest thing I could find that sounded like my Alesis monitors and then I had to fine tune the EQ on those channels to get them even closer. I'm not overly impressed with the Klipsch, that's why I don't mention the model numbers, but they work.
Keep in mind. Speakers are VERY subjective. We all hear differently and we like different tonal balances. And naturally, everyone likes to think that they have the right answer for you. Don't listen to anyone who says "Oh man you gotta get this one cause it's the best!!" Get what is best for you and your budget. Also keep in mind what material you listen to and the room where you will be doing your listening. You may love one set of speakers in one room, but hate them in yours.
In buying speakers, spend as much as you can on the mains (front left and right) and as little on the center and rear (assuming you want surround sound). The reason why is most likely you won't be able to afford your ideal setup right off the bat. For listening to music, you only use the mains and not the surrounds, so skimping on the mains so you can get better surround speakers doesn't make any sense because you will never be happy with them and you will eventually want to replace all of your speakers, rather than just the ones you bought cheaply.
Bose do however make awesome active noise reduction headsets for aviation. But sadly, their price is so high that it's not worth it.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
hmmmm... yes I do :)
if you DIDNT want a sub if you mainly listen to music, how would you explain subs in cars. I cant imagine not having a sub to reproduce drum beats and the such. You are completely leaving out 1/3rd of your audio by NOT using a sub.
If you want your music to sound as the artist intended, run, dont walk, to your nearest car stereo specialty shop and buy a sub. Dont go to Circuit City, Best Buy, any of those joints. The only reason that the guys working car audio have jobs at Best Buy is because they werent good enough for the specialty shops.
Did you just grab my ass?
A sub is a MUST for any semi-serious audiophile.
Did you just grab my ass?
Since you've got Sony Stuff, buy the Sony Receiver, the Remote is cool and controls everything(as well as other brands)
My other sig is extremely clever...
Well just today I bought a pair of Bose floor speakers- 501 Series V, a Yamaha reciever- HTR- 5250 and some cheap Yamaha speakers that came free with my reciever. Now, before you guys go crazy about me buying Bose I would like to say that I am very impressed with my purchase. Bose is a household name for a reason and I can hear the difference. For me living in a small town in Wisconsin I have to trust my local Best Buy or whatever, I do not have the luxury of shopping for exotic stuff like Energy or Klipsch. This was the best deal that I found where I live, including the Internet- shipping and handling would have pushed the price over the deep end. As for my reciever it too has everything I could ever need, I am in no way disappointed. I would recommend both of these products to a friend, you get what you pay for and I got exactly what I expected and then some. Energy, Klipsch or whatever and Bose both have their strong points it all depends on what you are looking for, there are tons of options out there for home theaters just know what you want and you will certainly come across a product that is exactly what you are looking for. Later
1) You want progressive. If you can't afford a
DTV, try a Loewe TV with a VGA module
(720x480@60Hz) or a projector (preferably
9" CRT that can display 1920x1080)
2) Build a Linux based Home Theatre PC for CD,
MP3 and DVD-Video output. Use a GeForce based
card (MX is fine), 64M+ RAM, EnvyDSP based
Midiman Delta Dio 24bit 96kHz soundcard
(www.digitalconnection.com) for native 44.1kHz
CD and DTS CD output, and Dolby Digital/DTS
48kHz output. The VGA output can be used as
is, or with a VGA->component converter if
required.
3) Buy yourself a decent Dolby Digital/DTS
capable receiver - Denon are my personal pick.
4) Don't skimp on the speakers - get 5 speakers
that are designed to work together in a 5.1
system, and at least a 10" active sub. I'd
spend far more on the speakers than the
receiver.
5) Start using and helping out with LiViD.
I've been planning a Debian GNU/Linux based
HTPC distribution (linuxhtpc.holbytla.org) for
a while and almost have the hardware to start
testing. If anyone is interested in helping out
please email me. The aim is an embedded Linux
based HTPC appliance for CD, MP3, DVD-Video and
eventually DVD-Audio, backup/encoding etc.
--
niall@holbytla.org
-- niall@holbytla.org
The problem with Energy speakers is finding a place that sells them. You can check their web site for the nearest dealer.
www.energy-speakers.com
-- Sinistar
1. Get matched speakers for all 5 (or 6, depending on whether you get an amp that supports DTS ES) channels, so all your impedances, ranges, etc. are the same. 2. Definitely, definitely invest ~$35 in an "Avia guide to home theater" or "Video essentials" video calibration disc. These discs show you the basics of calibrating your home theater system, and also have many different test patterns and signals to do these calibrations. You will definitely see the difference! 3. If you're more ambitious, call sony and order the XBR400 service manual. This gives you the ins and outs of service mode, which allows you to do even more advanced calibrations & tweaks on your set. 4. If your tv display mode is set to the factory standard "vivid," get it off of that mode as soon as possible. This mode is basically used because the fluorescent lights on most showroom floors are so bright, but the picture settings on this mode are cranked up so much that using this mode greatly shortens the life of your set.
Sony 32" WEGA TV
Sony STR-925 receiver
Sony DVP-7700 DVD player
Sony 5 disc CD player
Two Sony VCRs
Paradigm speakers (front, center, rear, sub-woofer)
The TV hooks up to the DVD player using component outputs. The audio interface from the DVD player to the receiver is optical, as is the interface from the CD player.
When I read/hear about people wanting to watch DVDs on their desktops or laptops, I scratch my head wondering why they would even want to do that - might as well make yourself half blind and half deaf. Not to mention wanting to listen to quality reduced MP3 shite...
Linux is a kernel, not an OS nor a religion - me.
Everything is personal preference, and with only $1,500 your limited yourself financially as well.
Good luck, there is nothing more satisfying than a cold beer and a kick a$$ home theatre.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
I'm looking for something in the $500 range and after some minor scrounging I came acrossthis RCA system(the RT2500). I know at the price I'm not going to get anything fantasic but does anyone know if this is a total peice of crap or an OK deal.
First off, NEVER EVER buy Bose. Bose is laughable at best and WAY overpriced. It's like paying $50,000 for a Honda Civic. They're not bad speakers compared to KLH or Yamaha, but there are MUCH better deals out there. Okay, for the money you are talking, I would personally buy a set of Energy Encore or Take5 speakers and a Denon 2801, 3300, or 3801. You should be able to stay under $2000 even for the 3801, which will allow you to buy additional speakers later on which will decode 6.1 DTS-ES Discrete DVDs. (Pop in Gladiator... sweeeeet). The new PSB Image line of speakers is also quite formidable. Undeniably musical, though a tad bright until burnt-in properly. For a REAL deal, look around clearance sales for the Energy Connoisseur series... the C6s in particular are phenomenal for music AND cinema. I personally have found that Home Theatre becomes a drug... from my (somewhat) modest $3000 beginning, I have accrued over $17000 in home audio gear (though I got most of it on sale), so be warned. Spend as much as you can early on. The great part about good speakers is that they will continue to be good speakers for years and years. The same cannot be said for any other component of a A/V system. At any rate, IMHO you can't go wrong with Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Energy, NHT, PSB, or Mirage. Go and audition equipment. Find what YOU like. Don't get caught up in marketing (Bose). Things to keep an eye out for in speakers: make sure the cones are NOT paper and that the surrounds (the pliable stuff that holds the speaker cone in place) are rubber. Paper speakers sound like crap and blow out too easily. One last thing: invest in some decent cables for the speakers, don't use that lamp-wire crud that most people use... it destroys accuracy and makes for a less than satisfactory listening experience. That's my two cents.
What do you guys/gals think? What sort of picture quality could I expect? I'm more of an audiophile than a home theater person, so I may not know what the hell I'm talking about, but I always thought this would would be a swanky setup.
Today's sig brought to you by http://www.swankypimp.com
As far as a receiver you can't beat Yamaha for the price. And if you have the money B&W speakers are head and shoulders above the rest. The B&W 601s cannot be mathced in their price range.
I just got a new Sony DVD/CD changer. I quickly discovered that my old Dubly Pro Logic reciever wasn't providing me with the awesome aural experience of Dolby Digital/DTS. This necessitated a receiver upgrade. I grabbed a Sony STR-DE845 from Cambridge Soundworks (clearance sale happening right now!) for about $399. I was bewildered by all the inputs at first, but soon discovered that a lot of them are provided for maximizing compatibility with other devices. All you need to do is get EITHER the digital coax or optical cable to connect your DVD to your (presumably new) receiver or standalone decoder. For speakers, you need a six piece system comprised of front, center, rear and subwoofer. I would have to recommend Cambridge Soundworks again for these. You really can't beat the value. When I finally got everything working right, I was stunned by how much better the Dolby Digital sounded relative to the Dolby ProLogic Surround of my previous setup.
Some things I've learned: (specific recommendations follow)
1) As mentioned elsewhere, without good speakers a kickass amp gets you nowhere. Figure 30%-50% of your budget. A matched set of fronts and center is a very good thing.
2) On the other side, reasonable priced speakers outperform most livingrooms/apartments. If the accoustics of the room aren't excellent there's no point in spending thousands on speakers.
3) If you find an amp with good specs outside the normal ranges (&less 20Hz, &greater 20kHz, &greater 200W) is will sound even better at normal volumes and frequencies.
4) On the other side, Harmon Kardon makes amps with wonderful specs, and their analog amps rock, but I've had nothing but trouble with their digital ones.
5) Don't forget to budget for patch cables and speaker wire. Those dinky little patch cables that came with the components won't cut it in an two grand sound system. Get good heavy ones with gold plated ends. Same goes for speaker wire--the good stuff is worth it, especially if you're going to be playing with the volume control.
My Recomendations:
1) Amp -- I'm currently running an Onkyo THX amp (sorry, I don't have the model number handy) that cost &less $1000US. That's right, THX certified for under a grand. This amp kicks serious ass. It's warm, with good presence, great imaging, and all the doodads. 4 digital inputs (2 coax, 2 optical), DTS, full composite and s-video switching, ergonomic remote, more surround and DSP modes than you can shake a stick at, did I mention it's under a grand?
2) Speakers -- I don't really have a preference. I'm running Paradigm fronts (with Optimus passive subs) and center, Optimus Lineaum rears, and a Paradigm powered sub. It's pretty good, but I'm not happy with the low-midrange. There's a definite drop between the top of the sub and the bottom of the satalites. Shop around and listen. Bring CDs with you to play--CDs you know how you want them to sound, and just listen to lots of speakers.
SMQ 90AE4B2BC4F6BEAF7340F0B40BA2DEF7340F6BC2D0392
With a good quality amp, you can turn the volume up all the way and still have great sound quality. These aren't the best for super low frequency ranges, but have incredible punch. Get one of the larger versions of these, maybe the 603 or 604, or combine it with a good sub. The 601's would probably make a good set of surround speakers for an incredibly loud theater.
I'd say the two most important components are the speakers and the power amplifier. Be sure that you get good quality components here. Good luck in the quest for the ultimate theatre/stereo!
Check the extensive posts on these speakers at AudioReview. The story of nOrh is that it was created by an audiophile living in Thailand. Many Asian economies were tanking a few years ago so he decided to use the craftsman who traditionally made drums to now use these shells for speakers. The end result is a solid wood speaker (compared to the cheesy MDF used by most speaker manufacturers today), that is hand finished is comparable to high end furniture in the quality of finish and build. The speakers I got were a deep reddish color with a high gloss finish.
Most importantly, the speakers sound great. They use very high quality Vifa drivers (and the highest quality Scanspeak drivers on the more expensive models). The sound is very warm, and you can crank them very loud (although they need a fairly well powered amp to drive them).
The best thing about this company is that they are truly using the Internet to create a lot of value for the customer. They don't need to stock expensive showrooms and the labor costs are much lower in Thailand, so you get one of the best speakers for the price. The only bad thing about them is their shipping times, it took about 3 months to ship the speakers. If you have the patience, I highly recommend nOrh. Also, check out their new line of ceramic speakers.
You bought a $2400 TV and want to spend only $1500 on all of your audio equiptment? You've got it all wrong!
First you have to pick a decent receiver, I recommend chosing between Denon, Yamaha, and Onkyo. Spend somewhere between $600 and $1300 in this category.
Speakers.. I love B&W speakers personally. (http://www.bwspeakers.com) As mentioned by at least one other slashdot reader, the 600 series are incredible speakers for the money. Pick your 5 speakers and then figure out how big of a subwoofer you'll need. An ASW1000 or higher will do nicely. Depending on what speakers and sub you chose, your total speaker cost will most likely be under $2000.
Speaker Wire. You can get the cheap monster cable crap, or spend a bunch of money on some high quality wire. I like Tara Labs. (http://www.taralabs.com)
Enjoy!
-Sarkoon
The distortion introduced into any audio system is primarily the speakers. A good clean amp helps, but the speakers usually are an order of magnitude higher in distortion than the amp.
For the best sound, reduce the biggest source of distortion by getting the best speakers you can.
Speakers should be chosen based upon room size and positioned carefully for optimum sound.
I recommend Boston Acoustics for the bargain hunter and Klipsh for someone who demands the best.
For the amp, most on the market are the same (AB), unless you're a purist. For the purist get a Linear A amplifier.
I used to wonder what was so holy about a silent night, now I have a child.
I've got just about everything I need in a set of promedias. They are about $200 at Klipsch.
They seem to be some of the most versatile speakers, since they are simple 1/8" in.
Full 4.1, 250 watt, more than enough for any smallish room. And they are all for me...
You'd want to get a reciever if you are going to
run them stand alone, but what good geek wouldn't be using his computer for DVD???
27" Panasonic PanaBlack vertically flat TV
Sony STR-DE815 Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 ch AV receiver
Hughes Dolby Digital DSS receiver
Toshiba DVD player w/Dolby Digital and DTS optical out
TiVo
B&W 8" 3-way speakers *4 with titanium dome tweeters, B&W center channel.
IMHO, the center channel is the most important speaker because it is what provides about 80% of your total sound output. It is worth investing a little more in this.
I would tend to disagree. .
The sony equipment you can buy at Best Buy, Circuit City and their ilk, if the standard "commodity grade" equipment that is made to be sold to the average consumer that knows nothing other than that one is pretty
However, if you head out to a decent store, or an online retailer, you can find the sony ES equipment which is quite impressive.
Stay away from anything that comes in a pre-fab package as they are usually older model equipment packaged with substandard speakers...
Not to mention the mysterious question of why they include a center channel with a pro-logic reciever, which seems to be the trend with the packaged sets.
mpg123
"The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows." -Aristotle Onassis
I guess all in all I'll second the comment about the treadmill, although I've never ever seen anybody that is willing to eat at TacoBell gag on anything... I mean after all, look what they are putting in there mouth. Have a nice day and remember to the extra sour cream and gummie bears...
I have the following stuff
Onkyo 777 Receiver Velodyne 12 Sub Polk Speakers (I forget the model #'s)
Dont settle for cheap stuff. There is always a difference.
Sudo Chop!
Onkyo TX-DS989 & Bose work just fine.
After the carving is complete, the wood is seasoned by a team of craftspeople who use truffle oil to provide a beautiful sheen. THe drivers are powered by neonamytititanum drivers, which as you know is the rarest of rare earth magnets and it's renowned the world over by serious audiophiles.
I'm sure you would agree that these speakers are the best ever and are really worth the 20K USD each.
Now for your amplifier I would suggest contacting Der Powur Amplification of Copenhagen, who specialze in not only designing the cleanest amplified sound, but also the power supplies and generation equipment to go with them. Of course, they only run on premium fuel (naturally, of course). I have one of their amps for each one of the channels. Because that's the only way to be sure. Of course, you can probably get a deal if you talk to Karl, he might not charge you for shipping.
Now you will have the best audio experience ever, until next year rolls around and all your equipment is outdated. At which time you will have to shop again.
Seriously -- go out, audition some speakers and an amp. Go to a store that lets you return it in 30 days if you don't like it. Go for the bast price, and remember you are paying for a manufactured good (at this price range) so you should be able to bargain shop and find a good deal. I have a Sony AV reciever and Boston Acoustic / Cambridge Soundworks. I like them because they are paid for and provide decent sound. Because you can dump big $$$ into a system but then it has to compete with heating / ventiation / open windows (traffic noise, screaming children, motorcycles). This "background noise" can easily overwhelm the subtleties of your ultraexpensive system.
If the budget can stretch a bit further, you couldnt go wrong with a pair of Krell power amps (ie:508's) hooked up to Paridigm 4way fronts, a B&W centre bridged and a pair of B&W rears (model numbers elude me) The Paridigm fronts will blow your mind with their power and depth (hence no subwoofer required to keep price down). The B&W centre I own is designed with an internal active cross-over to extract the most common dialog frequencies and isolate the dialog from other sounds (clever!) I actually use B&W bookshelf size 2 ways as rears even tho they are a bit overpowering. The Krells feed from my (*cough*)Yamaha DTS. All up it set me back about A$4000 but I'm sure US prices would be much better.
Is that an African or European swallow?
ok.. heres what my setup is.. no dvd playa, no 36" tv... all i got is my Technics SA-AX530 stereo reciever hooked up to my comp.. For speakers i got 2x Pioneer 100 watt 6x9's in boxes on top of my desk, and a pair of 8" speakers that i amped and put in a custom band-pass box thats hooked up to the sub-out on my reciever. it sounds good and ill not have ne money to upgrade it for a while, so im happy!
If you're only looking to spend $1500 total, you should probably look into the cheaper Denon, Onkyo, and Sony ES lines, as far as receivers go, and plan to spend $500-600.
With the remaining $1000 or so, I'd look into some sat/sub combos from Paradigm, Energy, and B&W. Stay away from Bose -- they're not as bad as audiophiles make them out to be, but there are way better systems for equal money.
Oh, and don't skimp on the center channel. It's by far the most important speaker in your system -- lots of the sound and virtually all of the dialog comes from the center channel.
Finally, it's reccomended that your front/center/right speakers are timbre-matched, which means that they all have same tonal charactaristics. The easiest way to ensure this is to get the speakers as a set, rather than trying to match speakers from different manufacturers or lines.
Check out http://www.hometheaterforum.com for lots of good info, and more suggestions.
The Magnepans are very good if you have the right amp for them. They put a highly capacitance load on the amp, which is not good for the amp. Make sure the amp has a very stable power supply. Also they are very unforgiving on the signal source. No cheap receivers. The bass on them is very shallow they will go low but not loud they will slap if you play too loudly. They really need to be teamed with a good acoustical suspended sub because the is usually tighter.
YEAH BABY! U tha man. Pls h4ve sex0r with m3!11!
After I've spent few months listening and reviewing (get to http://www.audioreview.com - it is VERY useful), I've decided to get:
:).
Onkyo TX-DS787 - Pioner DV-626 DVD player (zone free, reads *everything*, extremely good picture and sound) - Mission 703 (front), Mission 701 (surround) and Mission 70c2 (center).
Mission speakers are extremely nice, although you might want to consider getting subwoofer if you have bigger room. Onkyo is outstanding - has THX, DTS and all the bells and whistles you need. I would buy it only for 'All channel stereo' - it is *amazing* (Denon AVR-2801/3801 also have all channel stereo, but Onkyo really sounded better).
Although I was getting this for home theater only, I can tell you that I am very happy with it when it comes to listening audio as well.
For receivers, get: Onkyo or Denon or Yamaha
For speakers, get: Mission 70x/70cx series or JBL N series (don't take N center speaker though - get the S series), or Polk Audio.
For DVD player: take whatever you like. I was choosing between Pioneer and Sony, but Pioneer had better picture (of course, it's my opinion
I'm happy with my AMP by Yamaha and my Paradigm speakers. I used to have these HUGE 3-way speakers that were a bit cheap...I got some Paradigm 2-ways and they rock. The Yamaha amp is really decent...It's only 60 watts per channel but it is clear as a bell.
Klipsch for speakers, Denon for everything else.
You seem to like Sony, and you'll probably want to consider Sony for your audio components, with a couple of caveats...
1. Don't get a "home theater" package. They are all disappointing.
2. Sony's receivers have good sound quality, but their amps IMO don't have enough "oomph" for the bass you'll want. Add a subwoofer with at least 120 watts of power, and you'll be much happier.
does this mean I should put my foot where it belongs? That is, right up your ass your intolerant fuck?
If you don't like a topic, don't read it. Or is there someone with a thumb up your ass forcing you to suck dick, drink blood and read slashdot...
Build your own speakers, and save a bundle of $$$. If you spent $100/each on speaker parts, a 5.1 setup would run you about $600, and you'd have a killer system that would match anything for twice the cost. I built a subwoofer of my own design for about $120 -- it is a whole lot larger (and louder) than those little POS $500 deals.
I ended up spending about $400 on my speakers and it took a weekends worth of work with the table saw, and a soldering iron.
Of course they don't look like "fine furniture" I just painted them all black, built some speaker stands from the leftover wood. You should have everything flat-black anyhow so it doesn't distract your eyes from the TV. I also like to watch Movies in the dark, so I can't tell if they look nice or not!
Many free designs exist on the Internet (I used these... http://www.adireaudio.com/the_grandpop!.htm ) And subwoofers are a matter of plugging numbers into a spreadsheet.
Cat: The other white meat
Tell us how you really feel.... The Toshiba's are great...if you like looking a fish bowl. Maybe the Mitsu didn't fit in his room? I agree on the Toshiba...very good quality. -ted
Yamaha DD + DTS reciever...Boston Acoustics main, center and surrounds...also Boston 8" powered sub. All had for under $2000.00. I like the modest Boston setup for movies...it lacks a little in the pure music area though. But don't take anyones word on speakers...go listen to them for your self...everyone's ear is shaped differently, consequently, what i'm hearing is probably not what you are hearing. -ted
Have you ever heard the "Wave-radio" it probably only sounds good under water. I agree I worked at circuit city for a couple of years and then for a smaller High-End custom shop. You are right....Bose is CRAP! -ted
What is a high quality cable? Please let us know.
Dont get me wrong, I have nothing aginst Bose speakers but the definietly aren't worth the money, I have a home theater system using JBL for about the same price as Bose and it sounds infinitly better. I would recomend JBL,NHT or one of those types. I would also definietly get an amp. with optical Dolby Digital Decoding so you can listen to all of the 5.1 channels most DVDs provide.
I would recommend the Sony STRDE945 receiver accompanied with Infinity speakers!
I have this set up at home and it sounds awesome.
The infinity's are crisp and clear and the dsp modes the sony receiver has will fit perfectly to any room you wish to pimp out.
"When I look back, my life is not a foreign country, it's more like a library book returned long ago." - ????
Rock solid, priced right, and all kinds of things to play with.
I just purchased the STR-DE845 and got the DVP360 DVD for xmas.
Another good place to do some research is at www.audioreview.com. Cheap prices on Sony equipment can be found at www.inetshopping.com.
NHT (Now Hear This) are just as over-rated as the Bose.
BTW, Bose 901's are great speakers.
Nothing beats building your speakers, though. I put mine together using Pearless drivers, MDF and zebra wood vernier.
Componets can be found at www.madisound.com
The Sony S560D (the player referred to in the original post) actually does have a digital coax out, as well as the optical toslink connector. I just got that player myself, so I think I'll heed your advice and get a digital coax cable to hookup to my receiver. Thanks.
Guns don't kill people - bullets do!
Mirage AVS-500. What Bose wanted to be.
Mirage FRx-S10. Boom Boom.
Sony SATT60 - DirecTv and Tivo Combo!
DON'T BUY ANYTHING FROM BOSE! Purchase a Denon 3300 for a thousand bucks. Save a few more $$ and get some Paradigm Speakers. Don't be cheap when you get your interconnects and speaker cable.
--"It is not the critic who counts...The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..."
Altogether, the system runs about $750, with the speakers about $400, and the reciever about $350. CSW also packages their speakers with good receivers fron Sony and Onkyo, although I was more interested in keeping my homogeneous all-Philips devices theme in place.
RW
Yeah, right. I don't know about his vote, but my vote probably didn't count. I seem to recall "crapola" about people writing in "Gore" and it not getting counted for Gore. So what are the odds that my write in vote (not for Gore or Bush) even got reported to the county, let alone the state? Probably very low. I know my choice had little choice of winning, but just once, I'd like to turn on the TV, and actually see counts that were complete.
- dave f.
Nice looking system. I'd say definitely check out DIY systems. I was looking at ESL's (Real Men don't buy drivers!) but I don't really have the room for those, and mistakes are expensive. Check out the Ariel's - but they are a major bitch to build.
BTW, anyone have any experience with Shiva's in a transmission line. I'm thinking of building a TL into the bottom of my waterbed (it's just wasted space right now, and would be easy to put a 10-12 foot TL into) for listening to techno music.
- dave f.
Sony amps are high quality with good features. As for speakers, I have had excellent experiences with Cambridge Soundworks' Ensemble systems. imho they give you the biggest bang for your buck.
You could have saved a few bucks and went with the S360, which also has an optical out. Any decent receiver will also have Dolby digital decoding, so the builtin capabilities of the 560 are wasted (not to mention the degradation of analog signal from the player to the speakers via receiver).
Nobody is really going to agree -- some people will tell you to get some piece of crap Korean thing, others will tell you to get the overpriced status symbol garbage like B&O, and some of them will say you should go to the local snob shop and pick up some spendy handcrafted so-called "audiophile" no-name brand. Check out:
http://www.epinions.com
--
Here's the basic deal with Bose... Bose is an incredible marketing company. They come up with speakers designed to "wow" a consumer, and that's exactly what they do. The secret to this is lots of bass and lots of treble, with no midrange. High treble levels are often mistaken for clarity, in that the salesperson exclaims, "Listen to how clear they are!" Then of course, the common perception of a quality speaker is the bass output (reasons low buck infinity's, Cerwin Vega's etc get perceived as quality speakers). So, Bose turns up the treble and bass and sell the crap out of their speakers. They also cleverly package them. They pretty much invented the satellite/sub setup, and it was ingenious, as this let the speaker system get approved by the female of the household (a generalization, but often true that women don't like big, ugly speakers). To further this whole point, the build quality and components used in Bose speakers are of low quality. Also, no matter what a Bose rep tells you 2" drivers (what they use in their satellites) cannot reproduce correct sounds no matter what kind of subwoofer they're paired up with. Bottom line, is listen for yourself. Do yourself a favor and find a local high-fi shop. You'll introduce yourself to a whole new level of music and movie viewing.
Quality cables are one of the most important things you can do to your system. But of course, the quality of the cables should correspond with the quality of your components.
no use buying something unless it will sound good... spend the $$ on the speakers. of course the wife thinks it's overkill, but then again she's not a geek like us.
B&W Speakers:
http://www.bwspeakers.com
You can lower the cost by selecting smaller models for each position, but i really wouldn't suggest going smaller on the center channel. DM603 S2 for the front
DM602 S2 for the rear
LCR6 S2 For the center
Sunfire SubWoofer:
http://www.sunfire.com
Consider nothing other than the Sunfire True Subwoofer Mark II. These are pricey [$1500], but you GOTTA listen to one. 2700 watts, 1 cubic foot and a ton of phase & crossover tweaks you can adjust to match any speaker/room config. You can wait to get this later, but once you hear it you'll want it right then.
AV Receiver:
NAD T760 [check the new t761 and 751] http://www.nadelectronics.com
DTS & DolbyDigital. Great Sound. Way better decoding than your DVD player. No Surround Effects !!! [why pump that precious signal through all those DA converters?]. Use the digital coax for signal - f the optical connection.
Universal Remote: Philips Pronto http://www.pronto.philips.com http://www.remotecentral.com [for GUI interfaces] Remember only an alpha-geek should even consider one of these.
let me know if anyone wants more info...
Well I just put together a nice little audio system that I feel covers all the basics and then a bit. I bought a Sony str-de945 for the receiver it gives out a nice 500 watts, and all the optical plugs and s-video plugs you can handle. As for speakers I went with JBL all around except for the sub-woofer, I got a cerwin-vega 10" sub, and JBL S-38 for front sound, JBL N-24 for rear, and a JBL S-Center. This all ended up costing me about $1000 maybe a bit more, after some good searching on mysimon and yahoo shopping. I hope this helps you guys out.
If you are looking for stereos on a budget, look at a site called www.goodsound.com -- they have a bunch of great info (although don't deal too much in 5.1). I personally found out about a set of Vandersteen 1C's that I cannot say enough good things about.
I recently bought a home audio system of my own. I ended up with a Sony DE845 (their mid-range) receiver, Klipsch speakers, and a fairly low-end Boston subwoofer (I refuse to spend a lot of money on something that only rumbles).
I haven't had any trouble with the receiver, except that it's almost too large to fit on the shelf in my entertainment center. The speakers also sound fine, to me.
I would really take recommendations on speakers with a grain of salt, though. Go to a place like HiFi Buys that has several speakers already set up and you can change between them, and give the ones within your budget range a listen. I did this, and was surprised at how different various speakers can sound from one another, without it being immediately obvious which one was better. I ended up choosing Klipsch's second kind of floor speakers for my front mains because I liked the warm sound it made, but still seemed really good at handling treble.
Speaking of HiFi Buys, they also have a good coverage plan on their receievers, something like $50 for 5 years of not only fixing it if it breaks but also fine-tuning it to make sure it's up to the manufacturer's standards.
I'd also take wattage ratings with a grain of salt. Most decent receievers that claim to do 70 or more watts will fill the average living room perfectly. I can't turn the volume dial over 2 with mine without it being too loud, and it's 100 watts, which seems to be the average. Really high wattage ratings are for really big rooms or PA systems, and most people won't have either.
Just my two cents =)
Check out Brian Steele's DIY Subwoofer page.
Also, just to toot my own horn, check out my DIY project.
I use NHT speakers and a Harmon Kardon Receiver. I learned early on that Home Theater and Home Audio are two TOTALLY different things! OK, Home Theater you should look into the quality of the separation of channels (DTS is very good for separation) as well as power (things go BOOM better) subtlety is only really important in home theater for the center channel as compared to all speakers in home audio! You wouldn't want to listen to the Boston philharmonic on my home theater system just the same as hearing the Matrix on my home audio system. $1500 is a good price for a receiver and $1500 will get you a decent set of speakers. But $1500 for both is strechin' it.
I have a maranz 7000, it was around $800, but this is one of the nicest recievers in the $1000 range. And for my speakers I have pulse Teatro 11.1(?) they are towers upfront with a 10 in each side, center channel is pulse as well, and pulse surround speakers in the rear. Every thing sound awsome together. As for the little bose I don't like them for one reason: MUSIC but if you don't care about music then disregaurd this comment.
1. Sony Wega 36" - don't get XBR unless you have money to burn. I bought XBR200 when it came out for $2200. There were MANY problems with first batch of Wegas. I had to return 3 of them due to yellow spots on the tube. Don't buy a floor model. Haggle the price down. Bring Internet quotes and avoid the Wiz. 2. Yamaha RX-V2095 or Sony ***ES receiver. Yamaha has better sound and a funky remote but if you are going with all Sony stuff, get one of their ES models. I bought a 50-ES (no longer made)receiver for my friend and he loves it. Yamaha set me back $1250. 3. Sony DVP-S7700. Sure, you can buy a crappy player for $150 but it probably won't play Matrix and drive will sound like a cheap 50x cd-rom spinning-up. Component video out is a must in a DVD player if you are getting a Wega. I bought 7000 for $820 few years ago and 7700 is about $550 now. Shop around. 4. Energy Take5 Home Theatre set. If you are going to watcha lot of DVDs, you have to get these. You get 4 identical 100w speakers + 1 center channel. They are small, sound and look good and are MUCH better than overpriced Bose crap. I received these as a gift. They go for $500 and are cheaper if you buy from Canada. 5. Energy ES-8 powered subwoofer. I bought Acoustic Research sub first...it blew up 1 hour after i plugged it in :( Now I have a very expensive coffee/remote stand. ES-8 is around $300
6. Good UPS to protect all this expensive sh*t.
7. Good speaker wire, component video cable and Toslink for digital out. Monster Cable is like Bose - there's better and cheaper stuff out there.
Don't attach sub to it.
Finally, go to http://www.audioreview.com and read other people's reviews.
P.S. You will probably need a new job just to pay for all this junk.
That being said, I'm running a set of Energy e:XL speakers (e:XL 26 front, e:XL R rear, e:XL C center, e:XL-S10 sub). These nicely compliment my home theatre system, crowned by a 36" Sony XBR Vega (It's not Wega, dammit, look at Sony's website). From all the speakers I listened to, these were definitely the best sound for the price. There are a wide range of models for the front speakers ranging from $200-$1200, and subwoofers ranging from $300-$1700. You can easily put together a full 5.1 system for under $1500.
If you want to go the bargain route, the Energy Take5 series is $800 for a set of 5 satellite speakers and a sub. I find that full range front speakers add a lot to the soundstage, so I don't really recommend going this route.
I do recommend avoiding Bose at all costs, however. Though they're nice and small, they also have limited frequency range, distort easily, and are grossly overpriced. The Take5 series has much better sound at a much lower price, if you want to go the satellite route.
You can check out Energy speakers at www.energy-speakers.com, including prices.
-Srayer
Definitely. The Paradigm Reference series is simply amazing. I have an entire Reference system consisting of a pair of Studio60s, a Studio/CC, a pair of Studio/ADPs, and a Servo15. The main 5 are driven by a Marantz SR-8000 receiver that I am also very pleased with.
If you're short on cash, the Paradigm Monitor series is also exceptional. The Monitor 7s can be had for around US$570/pair.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
I got Technics for my home system. Sounds wonderful, powerful and clear. I have an AC3 reciver and a DSP. I have the Panasonic/Technics 5 disc DVD changer ($300) A 10 Channel graphic EQ Tape deck and a PC connected to it and the TV for MP3s and a giess powered psychedelic show. The whole rack system cost me less than 1500 (excluding the dvd player) I also live next to a panasonic outlet store so I get deals there.
I've got a Yamaha HTR-5240 (or something to that effect), a Yamaha Sub, 4 Sony Speaker box type speakers, and a Sony Center Speaker. All for about $950 at Sears! That included the Maintinance thingy they hawk on you.
(Why Sony Speakers? The Yamaha, as nice sounding as they were... looked like Crap. Plus the Sony's were 2" bigger and the same price)
Use that Sears Card, save 10%! ---cheap, but hey?
The sound is terrific, and blows away my friend's JBL... and he spent like $2000!!
Hope that helps you out.
Good place to check also is Deja.com Most people recommended the Yamaha HTR-XXXX models, and they're right... IMHO.
--
Swabby
-- Regards, Swabby
Look at Paradigm's line. we use these horns at the studios, they've got great freq response. Also have a look at some of the funkier B&W series... Amazing what u can do with Kevlar these days.
I'm curious about your suggestion to use floor protectors if you have a hardwood floor. I have a set of good quality tower speakers that came with spikes but I can't use them on my hardwood (laminate) floor. Do you know of a product that will give you a good solid contact with the floor?
First of all, split the money in $500 for a receiver and $1000 for speakers. Good receiver brands for Home Theater would be Onkyo (not so good with music, bit on the sharp side), Yamaha (a bit sharp sounding, but dynamic) and Denon (neutral, very good). If you value music, look at receivers from NAD, Rotel and Marantz. They all have that warm sound that's great with music. As for speakers, definitely check out B&W! DON'T buy Bose. They are not bad, but have terrible value! Other good brands include Paradigm, NHT and most UK brands like Mission, KEF, B&W etc. Make sure you buy a receiver that can handle DTS and DD and have enough inputs. LISTEN before you buy! Take a look at my page for some pretty serious HT magic: http://members.xoom.com/Garmt
Nice setup! I have the following setup (which is close to yours): - Lexicon DC-1 - Parasound HCA-1205A - Parasound HCA-1000A - Martin Logan Scenario fronts and rears - Martin Logan Script sides with REL Q100E side subs - Martin Logan Cinema center - BagEnd Infrasub-18 LFE subwoofer - Sony DVP-S7700 with Cinematrix prog.scan upgrade - Pioneer DVL-909 LD player - Sony VPL-VW10HT projector - Sony DTC-690 DAT-recorder - Michell Gyro SE turntable with Rega RB300+Grado Reference Platinum wood - Musical Fidelity X-LPS+X-PSU - Marantz ST-72L tuner - Monster and Nordost cables You make some good brand suggestions!
You want cheap, good speakers?
Take a look at these:
http://www.teufel.de
They rock!
As far as a receiver, I've heard very good things about the Outlaw Audio 1050. It's a 6.1 channel receiver, but for $599 (available only by ordering online directly). From all that I've read, quality such as theirs would normally cost a few hundred more. And, I'm not the type to usually buy such inexpensive components (in contrast to the Panasonic DVD H1000 that I own, for instance), but this product just won me over. As such, I'll be placing an order for one within a couple weeks. And, no, I don't work for them ;).
Alex Bischoff
---
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
- A.P.
--
* CmdrTaco is an idiot.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Small company in Ann Arbor, amazingly good sound at the price.
...phil
...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Very good stuff. I am so glad I got them.
i st/dealerlocate.taf - There is the link for thier dealer locator.
If you want to look for Paradigms - http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/Dealers/WebDealerL
I have a Denon AVR-2700 reciver to go with my Paradigms.
Mini Monitors or Monitor 3s and a CC-370 Center Channel will be good.
For CAN$350 (I think that's in the "bus fare" range in US currency), I got a complete 6 channel Dolby Digital speaker setup, with decoder. It's perfect for those that are simply interested in getting decent digital audio for DVD, as opposed to a general purpose sound system.
The main weakness of the system is the power. It's not very loud, the sub in particular. But it's fine for a small room, if you're not commited to seeing ripples in your own drinks while watching Jurassic Park. It does have an output to which you can connect a proper powered subwoofer, and I may invest in that someday soon.
The quality is good though, to my decidedly non-audiophile ears. Certainly it's a decent system if you want digital DVD audio without having to invest in a full stereo system.
I also have Cambridge Soundworks speakers. I bought a Technics (I know, low end) amp with DTS and optical inputs. My wife wasn't so sure about this whole surround business, so I bought the best CSW center speaker and two cheap rear surround speakers. I kept my Yamaha speakers up front for now. The kicker is that my wife loves the sound now (especially on the Sting DTS CD). With CSW, I can take my cheap-o rear speakers back and pay the difference for the dipole model. That means I can slowly -- without freaking the wife out-- upgrade my system to meet my ultimate goal. For those out there who want to appease their better halves, this is a nice way to get what you want without months of lobbying, explaining, begging or whatever your normal method of getting-your-way might be.
_damnit_
_damnit_
It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
But as others have told me and are saying here, you basically are going to be plunking the money down for speakers, and not the reciever itself, in order to get good quality sound.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Other folks have cited audioreview.com, which is a great place to go for reviews on everything. I always check there before I buy any of my audio stuff.
:) The only thing they're good at reproducing is that light, airy, spanish guitar type of music with ONLY crisp high's and some lower frequencies. Listening to some rock or even watching a movie with any of the bose "acoustimass" speakers leaves a lot to desire.
Recievers are quite a bit easier to pick than speakers. Basically you need to find a unit that has the features that you want (DTS decoding, etc) and the power output you want. From your description, it sounds like you want one of the mid to high end recievers. You'll want to shoot for a reciever with a built-in decoder, S-video switching, a whole shitload of inputs, and 70-100W per channel. Power output doesn't necessarily equate to loudness... some speakers require more power than others. You can always turn the volume down, but it's a lot harder to turn it up if your amp can't handle your speakers. When looking at brands of recievers, you'll probably want to look at sony, onkyo, harman kardon, or denon. I tend to like the H/K's because the controls are intuitive, they sound good, and they can drive a shitload of speakers. I had a pro-logic H/K reciever driving 4 main speakers, a center channel, and *4* rear channel speakers. That's right- 9 speakers!!! It never flinched, and always sounded top notch.
As for speakers, I highly recommend the Energy "Take 5" setup. It's composed of 5 small speakers, and a subwoofer you add on. You can get the whole setup there for around $900, and it sounds absolutely awesome. That leaves you $600 to spend on your reciever, and that's more than enough dough. You can get more info on the Take 5 at Energy's site.
And lastly- If you're thinking about getting some bose speakers, check out audioreview.com first. I used to think those speakers were awesome until I realized how much they suck.
It may not work well in a big household, but a really good pair of headphones will take you deeper into a movie than any speaker system. It's a very different effect, totally anti-social, but when you watch a movie do you want top quality sound, or do you want to listen to your buddies making a bunch of inane predictable "funny" comments.
Sennheiser 600s are great for this, and feel very spacious and surround-soundish. Not properly directional like surround-speaker setup, but better quality and less gimmicky. You'll need a decent amp of course.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
I was thinking of going for Yamaha, but I heard they've gone down hill. . .
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Chris DiBona
--
Grant Chair, Linux Int.
Pres, SVLUG
Co-Editor, Open Sources
Open Source Program Manager, Google, Inc.
The two front speakers meet that price range. Or you could buy the amplifier and the center channel. Or the Sub and the rears. Unfortunately, you probably can't get all of them for that.
You can, however, get a setup that includes 5 infinity speakers, a sub and an amp for about 1500. You just can't the one I have. (Or maybe prices have dropped enough in the last 2 years where you can get it) Infinity is not that expensive, and they sound great!
--
Mike Mangino
Sr. Software Engineer, SubmitOrder.com
Mike Mangino
mmangino@acm.org
I think that I have a reasonable mid-range system (I won't say high-end as I didn't spend thousands). Definitely better than the average person though. The only thing that bothered me was how quiet the dialogue tracks can be. I don't know if this is because I have such a small centre speaker (I now have the centre volume turned up), or whether that's just how it sounds from DVD. So long as I crank the volumn everything's okay... and I like it loud anyway! I bought my stuff from a local shop, but I'm sure you can get it cheaper off the web (especially if you're in the US).
I have a 5.1 Polk Audio (RM6200) speaker set. I found that the price and quality are very good. They will fit you budget. Your house will shake. The neighbours will think you have Roman legions running around when you watch Gladiator. They will think you're killing people when you watch Saving Private Ryan. I think I paid Cdn$550 (USD$360?) for the satelites, and Cdn$330 (USD$220?) for the sub-woofer.
I had never heard pf Polk Audio before this purchase, and none of my friend's have either. Ok, one friend. He's audiophile and his first real setup had Polk speakers. If it's of any interest, Polk Audio is an American company. My friend also recommended a company called Thiel (or something like that), but I've never seen them so I can't comment on the price.
Oh, and make sure you get a receiver that has a DTS decoder (sorry, I didn't check the link you provided to see if you DVD player has one built in). I got a JVC RX-6100VBK for Cdn$340 (USD$220?), and I'm really happy with it.
One more thing, don't forget to budget for cables. If you go for the decent digital cables, and high speaker cables, you could spend quite a bit.
The last amplifier I bought was a NAD 2200. The 218THX is rated at twice the continuous power of the 2200, and if it's anything like the 2200 quality-wise it should impress just about everyone. Note that since the 2200 and 218THX are both two channel amplifiers, you'd need 3 of them to do 5.1 surround. If you were running them in bridged mode to make roughly 3-4x more wattage, you'd need five of them (six if your sub doesn't have its own amplifier).
FETs as followers only, with something else for voltage gain, *might* work. But i've never heard a FET amp that really does it for me. However, some people have had really good luck using FETs on the input of phono stages, cascoded with a triode, for gain. Supposedly, the FET is sonically invisible in this location. But that's a whole different game than power amps.
FETs also suffer from thermal overload problems, which i didn't go into earlier. When a transistor or FET is overloaded, the die overheats, and its gate capacitance changes. If the device is in a feedback loop to linearize it (as they nearly always are), changing the gate capacitance changes the time constants in the feedback loop, in a nonlinear way! And ALL amps clip ALL the time, unless you have 30-40dB of headroom. This is one of the reasons amps can blow up dealing with a speaker load at even normal volumes.
I'm not sure i believe in objective measures of sonic performance in amplifiers. Power, THD, and noise measurements can tell you something about it at least working correctly, but the amp/speaker/room combination is so sensitive and complex that i think the only real value call is your ears. Beyond that, it's largely a matter of your taste in music and hi-fi. The best overall system i've ever heard was optimized for small jazz groups, and couldn't play much of my own music well (3/4 of a watt can only do so much, even with super-efficient Lowther speakers).
What i can tell you is what measures are NOT really relevant... THD and watts. With even moderately efficient speakers, 8-10 watts from an amp that is optimized for good clipping behavior will more than fill a room. With more efficient speakers, only a watt or so is necessary. Think about it... if your speakers are 96dB sensitive, and you never listen more than 85dB in your living room, how much power do you really need? Enough for headroom, that's all. Now, you won't prevent it from clipping on peaks, unless you have a kilowatt of power into 100dB speakers (i know guys who use big PA rigs at home for just that reason), but if your amp clips gracefully, you're okay.
--
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
Real Geeks build their own amplifiers from scratch, using the highest quality components for audio reproduction - triode vacuum tubes, the most linear amplifying devices ever made.
But for a cheap and easy system, pick up a pair of old Dynaco Stereo 70 amplifiers for the front and rear channels. Triode-wire them and remove the global feedback (ten minutes with a soldering iron). Add good mini-monitor speakers like the NHT Superzero, and a Paradigm powered sub (i'm assuming you're on a budget), and you're in a land of sound quality quite beyond the comprehension of the average home theatre geek for not too much money.
Hell, just get the Paradigm sub, a single ST-70 amp, and a pair of speakers, and run in stereo rather than Dolby Digital. You'd be surprised at just how good it can be, and that setup could be built for under $1000.
--
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
An output signal closer to the input signal? First, what signals are you looking at? Sine waves (the preferred source of transistor amp manufacturers everywhere), or musical signals spread across a 10 octave bandwidth and 60dB dynamic range (that's a milliwatt to a kilowatt)? I suspect the former.
Second, what is the predominant shape of whatever inaccuracy you see at the end result? The human ear is perfectly willing to ignore broad, gross distortions, but can pick up nearly unmeasurable changes in phase (the curse of two-way and three-way speakers everywhere... phase distortion).
I'd argue that the problem isn't "warmth", but rather "coldness". "Warm" tube amps are generally sluggish and lack detail and deserve their criticism. But the best tube amps i've heard (all DIY homemade jobs) don't sound warm... they sound transparent, which is completely different. The cold sound of solid-state is the layer of electronic-sounding haze they spread over everything... intermodulation distortion, high-order harmonics, inaccurate error correction from relying on feedback for their reward (hence using sine waves rather than dynamic, wide-bandwidth signals for measurement... feedback loves the simple model), etc.
--
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
I've been very impressed by my Technics CD player and tape deck, less so by my Technics amp (although it does have the advantage that I can use one remote for everything). And of course Technics rule vinyl decks.
Denon have very clean sounding amps. For speakers, Missions will deliver on budget.
If you were in the UK, I'd recommend Richer Sounds.
--
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
Good points. A former roommate of mine is an audiophile who was on a college budget, consequently he had to seek every affordable performance advantage. He found that placement had a profound effect on his modest (yet still high end) equipment. He used a laser pointer to verify that the speakers were directed to the sweat spot. He also used a decibal meeter to balance the audio. He also had a DVD which helped calibrate the color settings of his TV. Through a bit of reading and effort he made a noticable improvement over even an informed placement of speakers.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
36" RCA Entertainment Series ($400)
Good picture, especially with digital video. I would have gone for a much larger screen, but if I did that, I might as well go for a widescreen/HDTV -- besides, I'm not carrying that thing up three flights of stairs. This one was hard enough and barely fit through the door!
JVC RX-6008V Audio/Video Reciever ($550)
Great sounding reciever with a 5.1 speaker system. Supports DTS, DTS-ES, 5.1 and some others. DTS-ES sounds especially nice of course, but everything else sounds pretty good too.
Apex AD600A DVD Player ($150)
Single tray player. Plays DVD, CD, MP3. Cheap and nice.
I figure this system will due until I buy a home and go nuts on a real home theater, like you see in those expensive renovations on all the home building shows on PBS and TLC. :)
---
seumas.com
One very important thing to keep in mind when choosing your speakers is are you going to be listening primarially to music, or is this a theatre system. But your question was about amps/reciever.
/. DVD player two years ago from Sony and love it. I also ended up going all sony for compatibility and because of a funky little geek toy called the "Slink-E". You can find out about these things from http://www.nirvis.com and they rock for sony setups! You can control anything that uses the sony s-link protocol and if your patient you can even teach it to recognize and emulate almost any IR codes for non sony equipment. With a several hundred dish changer this thing gets really neat and will automatically lookup and database all of your CD's. I love mine...just wish I had time to put my CD's back into my changer after moving!
Make sure that whatever you get is rated to deliver it's peak wattage across all 6 channels simultaneously. A lot of manufacturers will show funny numbers by combining the power to each channel and quoting that number. And if you're using it for DVD's (And are a geek) you NEED full power to all 6 channels of amplification.
Some people are very against the optical connectors for digital out and swear by the RCA jack digital outputs instead. The reason they cite is Jitter, however it's more a technical probelm than it is anything you'll actually hear. Personally I get a kick out of having fiber optics connecting my components.
I bought the precursor to the
--- Juggle juggle@hitesman.com
Yes, I've got so many cables I look like a high-tech spider. Yes, I've got two pairs of 4-plug switched power boards, with some double-adaptors, for a total of between 20 and 24 devices connected depending on the season.
As plenty of other people have said, spend more money on speakers than you spend on the receiver. For my little setup I bagged a JVC RX6008v receiver from Costco with speakers for the cheap. The speakers are small which reduces some of their sound range but the receiver has specific settings for smaller speakers to help adjust them. It's got a shitload of inputs and outputs, lots of RCA style plugs as well as optical and coax digital plugs, S-Video to boot. As for speakers, pick up an audiophile magazine and see how sets stand up to their reviews, I rather enjoy the speakers I hooked up to my JVC (the rear speakers came with the rig while the fronts and center I already had). Monsoon just released a pretty bigass pair of flat speakers for home theaters at CES and I'm pretty sure they are available now or will be soon. Which are 1000$ for the pair. The good thing with the flat panels is you don't end up with defined sound cones. If you want to get a little more hardcore build your own speakers and match them to your TV's housing or entertainment center's finish.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
I was thinking of something somewhat related not long ago.
I recently splurged on a nice receiver and surround sound speaker set. It's got all I need when it comes to clean sound processing. The receiver itself is a Sony STR-DB840, which has a 24 bit sound processor for dolby digital/dts, another separate 32 bit processor for sony's format used with some of their other products. These DSPs do a great job, and don't resample sound when not necessary. They've also got some different built in effects modes to give the listener different choices of soundfields. It also has an analog direct mode where no sampling/conversion is done - good for records and some high-end sources.
So anyway, I've got a nice receiver and it happens to be right next to my computer. I would simply like to hook the optical jacks on the back of the receiver to a bare-bones sound card, so that all stuff analog is done by the receiver, not my pc.
Is there a digital-only sound card out there with optical jacks that supports 5.1 surround?
Vidi, Vici, Veni
What stereo equipment out there is computer controlable? I'm working on ripping all my CDs to MP3s, and wish to setup a music server as part of my stereo stack. I'd like to be able to control the amplifier directly by the computer. Stuff like turning it on and off, setting volume, switching between various inputs, etc. I know it's possible to use an IR transmitter to control an amp that has a remote, but I'd like to also be able to get feadback from the amp as well as more positive control that a direct link would provide. Price is a relative issue, but if I need to I can easily strech my budget higher so I'm not setting limits. The final thing is I wish to do this under Linux if at all possible, but if that isn't possible I might be persuaded to use Windows or some other OS.
If you can find them, the Inifinty Studio Monitors have a much richer, broader sound then the reference series. I lucked out on a pair of SM-155 (now SM-255) for about $400 at Costco.
The overall sound is gorgeous, and the volume levels well definately get you in trouble, I had to move into a house after I got these.
If you get the Studio Monitors make sure to catch the matching Video center channel - also a steal at like $150 from crutchfield.
Chris
-- I need more coffee. It's Monday. There is no such thing as enough coffee on a Monday.
I'll throw my two cents into the ring. I've done quite a bit of research into this area recently. Hopefully I can provide you with some useful information to consider.
Let me start with the hard part: Speakers.
I cannot tell you which speakers to buy. I suggest that you don't listen to anyone who tells you what speakers to buy either. The reason for this is quite simple. What sounds good to me might not sound good to you.
Speakers are a tricky matter due to the inherent subjective nature of what sounds good. All speaker manufacturers have a different "sound". Some are brighter in the high range, some have a more powerful midrange. The best suggestion anyone can give you is to go somewhere and listen to every speaker that you can. Choose the one that sounds best to your ears.
One more suggestion. Bring a high quality recording of classical music with you when you listen to speakers. The reasoning is that classical employs the broadest range of sound frequencies. It is the best test of a speaker's range.
Having said that, my personal recommendation is Polk. They are brighter without sacrificing much midrange.
Now on to recievers.
If you are interested in watching a lot of movies on this setup, I highly recommend something from Yamaha for the reciever. I've heard time and time again that they have the best DSP chips. They offer the greatest number of modes and very high quality of surround sound decoding.
I urge you not to base your choice off of power output numbers. A higher power will not ensure better sound. It usually means that you'll get a cleaner signal, but that's a loose guideline and not a rule.
Again I suggest a listening test. Although my experience leads me to believe there isn't much of a difference in audio quality in the $400-$600 price range (where I assume you'll be looking).
A final bit of advice that is directed towards anyone else who is building a system. If you're buying a dvd player that will double as a CD player, check to make sure that it will play CD-R's. Much to my father's chagrin, the Onkyo DVD player he bought has a blocker in it to prevent playback of burned audio CDs.
Happy listening!
I'll go after stabilizing rings first. For those who don't know, these are little rings of extra mass that you glue onto your CDs. This extra mass somehow decreases the error rate of your CD, because with the extra mass, it now spins more smoothly.
Except that CDs spin between 200 and 500 RPM, because it's not like a record, which means all that extra mass makes the servo work harder (since it's a constantly changing speed, and not a steady speed like vinyl), and burn out faster. The users of these little devices claim it improves the high end, and also improves the bass, but someone tell me, with a digital input of either 1 or 0, how this device changes not just a few 1's or 0's, but many of them, as an equalizer would, so that the highs are higher, and lows even lower.
With non-audio CDs, you want the data, as fast as you can, hence multi-speed CDs. If you read the specs on CD drives, it'll read at like 50x at the outside edge, and 12x at the inside. With music CDs, it's 1x, everywhere on the disk. You have to vary the spinning speed to make the pits on the disk flash by at the same bit rate when you are reading from different places on the disk.
As for tube vs. transistor amps, the real test is how well the output signal matches the input signal. Most tube amps afficianados complain that transistor and digital amps lack "warmth", meaning that something they are used to hearing is, or isn't there anymore. Since transistor amps present an output signal closer to the input signal, I'll leave the readers to judge
May I point out The Bose FAQ.
- AlanH
I'd say get whatever speakers are cheapest. Your home theater system is already screwed up anyway. Getting good speakers won't save you now. Sigh. Another one bites the dust...
--
Funny you mention the 596.. I just bought one. Discrete (~)100w x5. It does do the video switching, has at least 3 digital inputs and (the reason I bought it) decodes dts. I also like having the extra 5.1 input on the back of the receiver, so I can still plug in my old Yamaha DSP-1 and get nostalgic. :)
:)
Besides, wasn't Yamaha on the cutting edge of surround equipment for the home? I thought the DSP-1 was a groundbreaker in its day. It's also one of the reasons I bought one.. it has a high noise floor compared to today's stuff, but the unit is just killer. Bought it for $350 from some military guy who got it at his PX. It's my first Internet purchase, to boot.
It and the Sony 550 DVD player are the only two 'current' pieces of equipment I have... the rest are going on 12+ years old. I didn't really even have to replace my old receiver: I just wanted the video & dts. The center speaker & sub are next.
Be careful asking questions like this.. you never know when you'll get to the end of the shopping spree.
-'fester
Look at a $500 pair of Bose speakers. First off, you'll have a hard time getting a salesman to just show you a single pair of speakers, because what they _want_ to sell you is their special "system," which consists of their Jewel Cube speakers, which are basically nothing more than tweeters, tied to a very average sub (the "acoustimass" unit). However, once you do get to look at the speakers (the "Direct Reflecting" type), take off the grill and look at the cones. On a pair of B&Ws, you'll see gold tweeters and Kevlar woofers from the DM601 on up. On the Bose speakers, you'll see plastic and glue on the woofers, lots of it. In essence, the production quality is questionable, and it compromises sound quality throughout the spectrum, but especially at the lower end. Furthermore, if you go for a full system, the Acoustimass unit cannot produce adequate power around 20Hz for the room-shaking feel one expects from a home theatre sub, and all the bass is coming from a central location, basically destroying the point of a surround system.
In short, no audiophile will ever use Bose for their system due to poor quality, and no respectable home theatre setup would employ something so under-powered.
---sig---
>dvd players with 5.1 harder to find.
Well, yeah. I wouldn't want one personally and I suspect I'm in the majority. Right now my DVD player is the only thing I have ever gets a 5.1 signal, but that won't be true a year from now. I'd much rather have the decoder be in the receiver where it can decode multiple sources.
The only reason I could see getting a player with its own 5.1 decoder is if you already had a really high end "5.1 ready" receiver and didn't want to replace it. But, now that you have it you may be able to pick up what was a $1000 "ready" receiver 2 years ago for ~$200 if you look hard enough.
Interconnects only seem to matter if they are the limiting factor. You say you can't see the difference between the SVHS plug and the component video though? Me Either. The TV may not be good enough (or large enough) to show the difference, maybe the difference just isn't evident on the interlaced DVD signal (FWIW, I would have bought a progressive scan player for that TV) but you would see it when you feed it an HDTV signal.
garyr
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
You paid extra for a dvd player with a 5.1 decoder. This means you can get a good "5.1 ready" receiver. They are being discontinued by most mfg's so you can pick up good quality for quite cheap. spend the $$ you save on better speakers for now.
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
Forget that! Buy something like an Apex where you can bypass CSS and go Region-Free!
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/ :-(. The 795 and above do and support DTS too. It's got a very nice DSP effects processor builtin (Hall, Rock, Disco (!) ). For speakers, I recommend Paradigm, they're Canadian eh...
I use a Yamaha RXV-595 but it doesn't have SVideo switching
---
I'd like to put in a word for Rotel for the electronics section. The amps and integrated amps have really impressed me (I've owned a Rotel 2-channel system for about four years now). They rank with NAD and Adcom on my list for amps (well below the Krells, but hey, the FBP-600 is a little out of my price range...). I've found the Rotel amps to have quite a bit of heft and they are conservatively rated - my 60W/channel integrated can put about 100W/ch into 8ohms, and certainly sounds better at higher listening levels than the 100W/channel Technics and 150W/ch JunkValleyCrap(JVC).
I'm running with some Polk RT7s for my 2-channel. I love B&W (the 302s are a much better deal than the 602s... the expensive ones are heavenly). My Polks were about the same price as the 302s, and performed quite well in my listening sessions (the 302s had a slightly better image and soundstage, but the range of the Polks was better, and they (quite frankly) sound better than the 602s).
I'm still waiting on my Vandersteen 2ce's (mmmmmm). A nice amp with those (along with the Rotel CD front end), and let's just say - ahhhhh.
The best component in my surround system is probably the Velodyne F-1500R. Does its job rather well.
As always, listen, listen, listen. No point in buying what other people think sounds good if it doesn't to you.
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
And some of the other brands to avoid you listed? I'm just curious because the opinions I hear about Bose in particular range from pretty good to utter crap but I've never heard anyone back up their negative opinion with much more than "they just suck ok" (not that their defenders say much more than "they sound good to me") but since you seem to know what you're talking about for home theater I was wondering if you could explain just what is so bad about Bose?
"Listen: We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!" - Kurt Vonnegut
What I want to know is, who makes IP addressable stereo components? If my damn refrigerator is going to be networked, the least they could do is make the one appliance in my house that can actually deliver something (sound) remotely configurable. That way, with 802.11, I can control the music/video from anywhere in the house.
I'd even buy the first, basic model that just let you change inputs, volume and stations while they developed the advanced features like multiple destinations and personal profiles.
So who makes this beauty, and why aren't they advertising it? I can already turn on my lights and open my apartment security door from a webpage or via telnet, when am I going to be able to change the channel?
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
We built our system up with Paradigm speakers and have been VERY happy. Find a local dealer and go test them out. Take the things you like to listen to, so you know how they will sound for you.
We looked at a lot of speakers and everyone I talked to kept pointing us to Paradigm, as they provide the best quality for the price. I agree.
You can EASILY tap out $1500 putting together a good audio system.
Personally, I'd spend my money on good quality speakers and an amp that puts out clean power (not necessarily the best, but won't damage the speakers with dirt output). I say this because the speakers effect the sound produced more than any other component in the system you will buy (aside from the room itself).
If you want more "oomph" than sound quality, you can spend more on a better amp and a bit less on speakers without sacraficing much.
The system I currently have consists of a pair of B&W 602 mains and a Polk PSW550 sub. Those two items alone cost $1100. I still havn't bought a center channel ($350) or surrounds ($500). And I havn't really looked into some of the DTS/AC3 decoders yet (drool) which run some serious bucks as well, nor have I seriously looked at really good amps.
I'd recommend you go to your local home theatre store. The place I got my stuff from was awesome -- they didn't push specific products and they knew their stuff. A good store will have salespeople that can take into account your budget and put together a system that will give you the best bang for your buck. I'd recommend you try that route, or at the very least visit a store with some cds/dvds in hand to get a feel for how much money you'll have to spend for a certain sound.
Make sure you get good speakers. They are the most important part. You may want to consider budgeting up to %50 of your cost on them.
Personally I like Bose speakers. I have 4 301s and I love them.
The best and only way to know you're getting the speakers you want is to listen to them with music you know.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
Nope, I meant what I said. The receiver limits the quality of any other component (I don't consider the speakers a "component" as such). If you have a crappy receiver, then it really won't matter what you have for speakers. However, I definitely agree with you that the speakers then limit the sound coming out of the receiver. Crappy speakers, and it doesn't matter what you have for a receiver or anything else.
But I believe that you need to consider the receiver/amp/speakers all together. While the speakers are the endpoint for the sound in your system, all three pieces are bottlenecks. You can't buy reference speakers and a Radio Shack receiver and expect to get great sound. And you can't buy Radio Shack speakers and an expensive THX receiver either. Don't make the mistake of believing that either of the bottlenecks in your audio system is more important than the other.
-Todd
---
"The details of my life are quite inconsequential..."
It seems that all these highly-moderated comments have to do with specific equipment. I'm not going to name specific manufacturers, but rather suggest that you do a *lot* of shopping and research. This thread has so many anti-Bose posts it's overwhelming. Personally I'm not a Bose fan, but you might be. Listen to them, but listen to other speakers as well. But beware that there are a million variables involved in testing (especially at a store), so you can't make direct comparisons. An in-store audition should give you a general feel for a speaker's character, but when it comes down to crunch time, you'd do better to audition in your home. Of course, this is true for all equipment, not just speakers, but speakers are especially susceptible to changes in room acoustics.
Secondly, but equally importantly, a good high-fidelity system is about having components that sound good together. Maybe you like the sound of XXX speakers and YYY amplifier, but how do they sound together. Do not neglect this detail.
Too many people get caught up in "this brand is better than this brand." You're the one who has to live with your purchases, not the salesperson, and not a slashdot poster. Don't let someone tell you what sounds good to your ears.
-- "Complacency is a far more dangerous attitude than outrage." -Naomi Littlebear
I live in an appartment, so I couldn't get large speakers or a high powered amp.. I got a $500 yamaha receiver with DSP effects (I like the DISCO setting :). It's only like 75Watts / channel (unlike it's more expensive version) but for my appartment that's probably a good thing. Can't afford another noice violation :) Various reviews have given the Boston Acoustics ($1,000 model) a top rating in it's class. Nice rugged old style speakers that work pretty well for both stereo and home-theatre.
I like BOSE Acoustimass, but they apparently aren't good enough at traditional 2-channel stereo. Don't go for BOSE life-style, however. You're speakers are locked with a minimalist BOSE receiver (which doesn't do DTS btw).
That setup exactly costs $1,500 assuming you don't get the extended warranty.
Strangely enough, people seem to prefer the coaxial audio connectors to the digital ones.. The most common reasoning is the breakibility of the fiber cable; you are in danger of crimping it.
I have a CD jukebox and it only has an optical out. Plus Digital TV tends to have optical, so if your DVD player has a coax, you should probably use that.
Other things to look for in a receiver. Make sure it has independant digital inputs. Some receivers (I think mine is included) will share an optical/coaxial input so you're limited. Make sure to get nice high quality speaker connectors (ideally bananna clips) on as many channels as possible (most only have them on the mains).
Make sure that the receiver is capable of compensating for your small-speaker arrangement.. It should be able to suck the base out of the mains and center and divert them towards the sub-woofer (not all can do this).
Don't know if you're using component video with your TV / DVD (I'd highly recommend it), but you probably don't want to mux the video through the receiver because of signal degredation (especially with component). Actually, my new ideal setup is a true progressive scan player and TV - fat chance this decade for me.
Enjoy
-Michael
-Michael
Powered Subwoofer.
My home theater (Denon Pro-Logic AMP, B&W Fronts/center, non-descript rears) were really nice... Until I put in a MK Powered subwoofer with volume and 'crossover adjustment'.
Suddenly, there's a basement to my movies that the bookshelves wouldn't acknowledge. I get lots of really cool 'ooos' and 'ahs' when people hear it.
Amazing!
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
Think about it, they didn't take the time to do a good job putting together the stuff on the outside of the box. How good do you think the stuff inside the box is? The only good thing that I can say about Aiwa is that at least it doesn't cost much.
_____________
I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
That scene is good too. I assume you meant T2:Ultimate Edition.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
With the beach landing :). Much better test than The Matrix DVD.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Try some DVD movies for testing from CNET's list. I pretty much own most of those listed DVDs. :)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I forgot to mention that my subwoofer is a Hsu Research VST-2 (www.hsuresearch.com), a small company from California. It's the kind of small where the company founder (Dr. Hsu) will give you subwoofer placement recommendations based on the sketches of your living room you send in. The local dealer who carries Paradigm actually carries these as the subwoofer they recommend. You can get other good subwoofer recommendations elsewhere in the thread, but I thought I'd put in a plug for the little guy.
I have a fairly small (32 inch) tube TV.. Mitsu, I think.. (gotten due to the double SVID in and cable in and rca in/out).
.02.. Aiwa makes some *good* stuff.. and I heard somewhere they are made by Sony.. though I'm not certain about that.
Sony top of the line DVD, with real 5.1 rca outs on it.
Audio? I have a cheapy Aiwa.. it was like.. 500 bucks on sale at Wal-Mart.. I love it! The speakers are small, yet deliver *real* good sound, and its out of the box.. no extra cables, no crap to deal with. Granted.. I live in a row home, but I have a fairly large living room, and the cables for the satellites make it all the way to the back, (across the cieling.. 19 foot wide room) and the sound is *excellent*.
Plus, it takes like, six things *out* of your audio setup.. its a 5 disc carousel, double deck with h/s dub, full audio tuner, (w karaoke!) and has a slick lil video game built in.
Bose is okay I guess, but I always feel like I'm in a cage listening to those little teeny tiny cubes, as that huge bass cannon of theirs dose most of the work.
So.. thats my
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
They generally have a yearly "Guide to the Gear" issue where all they rate are recievers, speakers, and so on. They also have a very good "How to shop for foo" section, usually.
Speakers are the most important part, of course, and choice of reciver is governed almost exclusively by feature set and price.
A subscription to the magazine is even better though. Good reviewers. Nice range ($) of products, with no crap companies even making it in.
That is your ass, and this over here is your elbow, and NO they ARE NOT the same thing.
I love my home system.
I have:
A Dishplayer 500 (Satelltie plus TiVo)
A nice Toshiba DVD player
A $200 Sony AV reciever with mroe bells and whistles then i use.
A $100 set of close-out Radioshack Satellite speakers that frankly give me great sound.
The only down side is those Satellites have a passive sub-woofer but at the volumes i play that system at it makes no practical difference.
You can spend a WHOLE lot of moeny on very fancy equiptment and have big fancy names to show your friends, or you cna spend a lot less and unelss you are a professional musician who listens to music full time you are unlikely to notice the difference.
Its really up to you.
I'm visually trained (film production)and primarily visually oriented (though I also play music in an amature capcity now and studied violin for 15 years.) I find things that matter to me are:
(1) Picture quality. My good Philips set is noticeably nicer to watch movies on then my other sets. Its still not an "expensive" set by moedrn terms, just not a cheap one and Philips ha always ahd pretty good quality in their mid to high end.
(2) Reproduction smoothness. Skips or pops in CD or DVD are a bad thing.
(3) Quality of the audio reproduction hardware in the CD player. tehre really IS a difference between cheap and good CD players. My Phillips BitStream CD player (actually ist a CD-I player but thats a long story) is definitely better to listen to then a CD walkman.
None of this has to be in the 5K and up range "audiophile" stuff goes for.
Your mileage may differ.
I agree! http://www.audioreview.com is a great resource. As for a home theater solution for under $1500, I would recommend the JBL Studio Series speakers, such as the S-Center, S310 or S312 for fronts and S38 or S26 for rears. You will see that these speakers are rated very highly on audioreview.com, and you should be able to get a complete set plus subwoofer for a home theater for less than $1500. I think these are by far the best speaker value out there. They sound almost as good as the very high end audiophile stuff for only a small fraction of the price. I would stay away from JBL's lower-end stuff though.
The Klipsch are THX certified, which means either of 2 things depending on your opinion:
a) THX certification is a sham. Ya pay the cert costs, and they give you the right to use their logo.
b) THX certification means that the speakers have passed a rigorous test regime to ensure that they have accurate audio fidelity.
I tend to agree with point b. There *are* tests that are done, and not everything passes THX certification without having to go back to the drawing board.
There's 1 great thing I can say about the Klipsch Promedia, and about *ALL* other Klipsch speakers: they are crafted, not stamped-out-en-masse consumer BS, and have extremely high audio fidelity. That's what Klipsch is known for. If you're looking for power that will piss your neighbors off all the time, Klipsch isn't your brand. They make exacting and elegant instruments, which generally have less power than other speakers in the same price range, but have far better audio quality and at any rate can fill a room to any reasonable sound levels with *no* distortion. Klipsch are especially known for being one of very few audio companies which still use real horns for producing high-pitched sounds. Horns have been replaced over the years by cheaper parts which usually aren't as accurate--but not on Klipsch speakers.
I'm not sure the ProMedia speakers by Klipsch would be the best bet for a home theater system--they're just the most well known by computer guys like us. I'm sure they'd perform as well as speakers costing twice as much, if you paired them with a decent center channel speaker and a good Dolby Digital/DTS decoder. However, I'm also sure that, for the budgeted $1500, you could afford some Klipsch speakers particularly designed for a home theater system. At any rate, they are a top-quality brand, and when it comes to audio fidelity the only way you're going to get better speakers is by spending three times as much. They have audio *fidelity*, unlike Bose and other consumer products which distort the audio range in a way which is pleasing to the ears of a non-audiophile, but which annoys the Hell out of anyone who wants to hear audio exactly like it was layed down. These days, studios spend millions of dollars to have their soundtracks layed down in exacting detail by audio professionals at places like the Skywalker Ranch--why mess that up with speakers which *think* they can do a better job than millions of dollars worth of audio equipment and some very trained ears?
Just my 2 pence.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
I have to argue against tubes as a 'myth'. Vacuum tubes have very different distortion profiles, and sound much better than transistors when driven to their distortion limits. This is a Good Thing, since tubes are so much easier to drive into distortion. Tubes are also very susceptible to microphonics and ringing, which definitely affect the sound.
:-)
I won't even get started on thermal drift effects.
Of course, any good tube amp design aims to minimise these to below audible levels, just like transistors. (any tube amp that doesn't try to minimise these effects is a BAD design, in my opinion) I wouldn't waste my money on a tube amp when it's so easy to make a better transistor amp, but tubes _do_ often sound different. (i.e. worse
It's also possible that the CD 'stabilising' rings make a difference--they can increase bit errors in CD players that can't adjust to the extra rotational mass.
None of this implies that these are anything but Bad Results, but they sometimes do exist.
Now if you REALLY want snake oil, how about a wooden puck you set on top of your amp with the grain aligned to the electron flow?
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
It's true - quality of interconnects cannot be underestimated. No matter how little you care about them, they're less important than that!
Of course, they have to work, and have to be decently made. Five to twenty bucks should get you a cable that'll do fine. Anything more than that is snake oil.
There are some cases where interconnects make a big difference--when your equipment is SO badly designed that it counts on the electrical properties of the cables to operate properly. Curiously, equipment this bad generally sells for thousands upon thousands of dollars. If you have (or desire) equipment this poor, then you need to give your money to a better cause (like me!), or get an electrical engineering degree and learn why Bryston has no use for magic cables.
If your interconnects make any audible difference to your setup, there's something VERY VERY wrong, no matter if your system cost $100 or $100,000.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
Just to clarify something here...
I wasn't trying to suggest that bit errors (or bitrate errors and jitter, which would get eliminated by resynching the data stream in a decent CD player) would make the sound warmer, clearer, or have better high end. If it does, it's most likely due to the electroharmonic acoustification of the listener's interferometric phase shifting[1].
Failing this, bit errors are bit errors, and may be interpolated (causing a momentary and almost certainly inaudible degradation of the sound) or not (causing a VERY noticble momentary glitch)
Of course we're arguing from the same side of the table, so I'll be quiet now. Just didn't want to mistakenly be accused of stating that CD rings, for better or worse, would subtly alter the sound in a continuous manner.
[1] In other words, utter bollocks.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I know the setup I think I want.....the question is what ways can it be done?
I guess I have an Ask Slashdot on this... can anyone tell me if approach 1 is possible. i.e. is there an ac3/dts decoder for Linux and if so what sort of power are we looking at to run it realtime? This is something I have wanted for years (I bought an Event Gina when I was still evacuating Windows land and got nothing when I tried to help bash them for info! Have to admit I didn't hack at it under Linux cause the trouble they were having producing the drivers they wanted (DirectX) suggested that it was not the best card to work with (besides their lack of info guaranteed you would never get the DSP power out of the Dream Chip)). On this, does anyone now any projects working with the Analogue Devices Kit to develop a decent Linux sound card (i.e. more than just an io card...some DSP) as their kits seem to suggest they are worth working with?
The best approach in many ways is one a friend of mine took. Go into your local hi-fi shop and order a Dolby Digital Amp and pay a 10% deposit. Make sure that the clerk put down that you payed it all on the receipt and go in to pick up the amp a few days later for no more money! Finally when the amp seems a bit dodgy (like turning the volume up for no reason) make sure you get an upgrade to a later model thats twice the price......Cheeky Jammy Bastard!
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
Optical cables are expesive because retailers know the consumer doesn't know any better. Wholesale wise I can buy a TOS cable for the same price as a good quality coax RCA cable. Hell, cost of sending a 30 ft. TOS cable from asia to the US is less than the wholesale on a 3 ft monster brand TOS cable.
The real issue for TOS isn't the medium the digital streams travels, it's how it's sent. Jitter is an issue because TOS spec uses very cheap LED's to transmit the stream. If they had used a laser diode it wouldn't be much of an issue.
If you look at computer networking the optical connections are all Laser driven. And for very good reason, data corruption isn't an option.
Don't forget Snell and Maggies for the speakers, and odd as it sounds JVC actually struck gold with thier 700 series progressive scan DVD player.
For a more home theater centric site check this linkage - ecoustics.com's Home Theater Section.
I'm not sure what the Linn discs are made of but they appear to have a hole for the spike too. Talk to your hifi dealer, they probably have something. Otherwise small scrap pieces of marble or slate might work pretty well.
Burris
I do agree with you, though, Bose are marketed as quality speakers but actually sound good through only a small set of audio spectra. It has to do with the response curve. Bose speakers distort the lower frequencies in such a way that most demo sounds will sound richer because the speakers provide false overtones. Pianos and guitars sound good. Piccolos sound like crap. Voices just sound different. Any instrument that isn't supposed to have rich overtones just won't sound sharp.
I found one way to get good sound is to see if a movie theater near you is upgrading their sound system. A friend of a friend did this and his system rocks!
Bottom line: Listen to what you buy (and take into account that most sound rooms are boxes designed to resonate). Also, buy a good sub (one where you FEEL explosions), it is necessary for movies like Heat or the Matrix.
Network Security: It always comes down to a big guy with a gun.
The receiver/amplifier is very slick. It's got all the essentials - audio/video switching (with lots of inputs for all your crazy-ass components), S-video capability on all video inputs, two digital-capable audio inputs, each with coaxial and optical inputs. Supported audio formats are stereo, 3-stereo (two stereo channels plus a center channel), Dolby Pro Logic, Dolby Digital 5.1, and DTS.
The only complaint I have with this unit is the remote - it sucks ass. I don't know what those Kenwood engineers were thinking when they designed this piece of crap. The previous model, the HTB-502, had a much nicer remote. Get a universal remote, preferably a high-end one like that Sony unit with the touchscreen that looks like one of those data-pads on the newer Star Trek series.
Now for the best news of all - the price. $439.99 seems typical on the web (for example, check this out). This system has been reviewed in several audio magazines and they all rave that its sound quality rivals systems costing much, much more and that you can't find another system of this quality for anywhere near this price.
NOTE: I do not work for Kenwood, nor do I sell stereos for a living. I've never dealt with the store I posted in that link above, so don't consider it a recommendation. I'm just a guy who's real glad he bought a Kenwood HTB-503.
that's the theory, but I've not found it true for some reason. I use the NFM's as my main listening spkrs - admittedly not in a very large room, but certainly I'm farther away then 3feet. sounds still MUCH better than typical consumer home spkrs.
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
no highs, no lows? must be bose
its true. bose is pure marketing and has no real technology. their drivers are cheap paper cones and are way overpriced for the crap sound you get.
for a real comparison, try checking out a pro audio store for "studio monitors". you can get some Tannoy brand spkrs for real cheap and these are what the pros use to actually MIX your music. if its good enough for the pro engineers, why not consumers. but you cannot find tannoy spkrs in consumer audio shacks; you MUST go to a pro music store and ask for the 'pro audio' department.
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
I bought the DVPS560D for my parents, whose Bose audio system is only Dolby Pro Logic. They are thoroughly pleased with the DVD player. My dad says it makes his 17-year-old 27" NEC television look like its brand new.
I bought one of these on 12/30/0. It broke on 1/1/1. No picture... power light just blinks on and off. Circuit City was kind enough to charge me $40 to come and replace it, as they said that since I didn't order delivery the first time, I couldn't have it swapped out for free. While I was willing to recruit two friends to move the 282-pound TV ONCE, three times seemed a little much.
:)
Aside from the failure (which is hopefully an unusual incident), I absolutely love this TV set. Although it's a bit much for TiVo to handle, as you can clearly see the pixels and MPEG encoding, especially on the Simpsons. Of course, I've got an ancient 14-hour TiVo that I have to record everything on Medium quality. (Time to add a 90-gig drive to it).
As far as the Audio system goes, I went pretty much all Sony. I've got the new (and very cheap ($300)) 200-disc DVD/CD changer and Sony's second from top-of the line (consumer grade) receiver/amp ($400). Speakers are hand-me-down JBLs, don't know the exact model or specs, but they cost about $800 for the two large mains, two small satellite rears, and a decent center channel. I'm no audiophile, but they sound very good to me. Although the people who used to live two floors up from me weren't nearly as impressed
I'd love to hear about any problems anyone has had with these TV's though... I'm hoping I just had an isolated incident with it breaking but don't want to get stuck with a bad model if they all have problems.
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First of all all of the suggestions here are good, but don't take any of them too seriously.
:)
The only thing that matters when selecting a home audio system is what YOU think sounds good. Here is how you figure that out.
Find the highest end stereo shop you can find in your area, and listen to their MOST expensive system. I am talking about that one they have alone in a room that costs the same as a luxury car or a house. Until you do this, you do not have a reference to judge the components you will eventually buy.
Listen to the equipment they have in your price range. They will have equipment you can afford, and it will be brands that the electronic superstores do not carry. They should have a room where you can compare a lot of equipment al at the same time.
Look to spend more on your speakers than on your amp. The speakers make the most noticable difference in sound quality.
Make sure that you listen to different brands of recievers and speakers. For instance, B&W has a very direct sound while paradigm has a more diffuse sound quality. Different people like different types of sound reproduction. Yamaha is quite musical, but is not nearly as crisp as Dennon which is too harsh for some people.
My current setup:
Yamaha 975 Reciever.
B&W 605 s2 fronts(Active subs)
B&W 302 rears
B&W cc3 center
Cheap players that should be replaced.
My personal recomendations:
Yamaha/Denon/NAD/Rotel $600 reciever
B&W 601/602 fronts $250-$400 each (not exact)
B&W 302 rear $125 each (Best sounding bookshelf at pricepoint I have EVER heard)
B&W CC3/CC6 $180-$250 (not exact)
Spend the rest on a Velodyne or Sunfire powered subwoofer. A powered sub makes a LOT of difference.
I hope this helps. My main advice is listen, listen, listen. Your ears are different from everyone elses.
PS. I would not recomend BOSE unless space is your main concern. Listen and you will hear the difference, or maybe not, not everybody does.
The numbers I have noted are costs for the pairs of speakers, and while the center channel isn't as good as it could be, I care about music more then movies so I would prefer to spend more on my front L/R speakers.
Other companies that you may consider purchasing speakers from are NHT, Energy, JBL, or B&W. Don't bother with Bose. Bose might have 22% of the audio market, but this is because they advertise very well. They are not very accurate speakers at all, and their "Acoutimass module"s are bandpass designs, so they basically play a few notes very loud and the rest of what they play is very innacurate. My family has a pair of Bose speakers (They are direct reflecting bookshelves with an 8" woofer, 3" midrange, and 2" "tweeter" - they don't sound awful, but the treble is very harsh, and they are priced a lot higher then comprable speakers from other companies (They cost $280 for the pair and sound a good deal worse then the Paradigm Atoms). The system that I have made will sound a lot better then any Bose setup, at a much lower cost. When you buy Bose you are paying for the name, and for the small size. If you like the Bose sound, check out Cambridge Soundworks smaller line of speakers. They sound very similar to the Bose speakers at a much lower cost. Their Movieworks system is a fairly good choice if you don't listen to much music, and don't want to spend more then $500.
I would reccomend picking up a few issues of Sound&Vision, it is a fairly easy to read magazine that covers everything from about the $500 for a whole system to $3000 per speaker.
Also check out www.audioreview.com and read some of the reviews there. Ignore the ones for Bose speakers because many immature people just give them 1 star ratings without regard to their actual performance, which would usually warrant 2 stars or so :).
If all you are doing is watching movies, then spend more on the center speaker (The majority of the sound in movies is from the center speaker), but don't skimp on the front channels. Having cheap rear speakers as long as they sound pretty good is usually a good cost cutting measure (The Paradigm Atoms are $190 a pair at retail price), but that is really the only area you can skimp much.
Hsu research makes the best subwoofers out there for the price, but they don't have anything on the very low end side of things (Their cheapest sub is $500). Unless you want to spend 1/3 of your budget on a sub, do more research :).
Only those who dream can grasp reality.
I bought a Yamaha receiver this fall to power my home theatre. It's got S-Video switching, Digital Optical ins, and was 350 watts, I got it for like USD$240 at Sears. Does well. Now all I need is speakers that rawk.
So there I was. Naked. In a refrigerator. With a potroast on my knees. Smokin a cigar. That's when it got REALLY weird.
If you want professional sound in a larger room, get a set of JBL, Yamaha, or EAW(oh, baby!) 2 or 3 way speaks, and an adequate (crown or mackie) amp.
You missed the point. Take a length of 50 ohm RG-8 or RG-58 Coax of any length. Nowhere will you measure 50 ohms on it with an ohmmeter. It means 50 ohm cable with an 50 ohm load will not look inductive or capacitive to the source but purly resistive. With a load above the cable impedance the wire is capacitive, and at less than cable impedance load, the wire shows inductive reactance. A load at the wire impedance will show a pure resistave load at "all" frequencies including audio - RF. Can anybody say ruller flat response from DC-100MHZ? Last time I checked, inductance in a speaker line is bad for high frequencies. Impedance of a cable has nothing to do with series resistance. If that were true, you would want as close to zero ohm cable you could get for your network and radio antenna wires. Impedance is what resistance load the cable exhibits a balance between being capacitive or incuctive and transfers power most effeciently into the load. Impedance is fixed regardless of the cable length or frequency of operation. (unlike resistance) A longer cable has more capacitance, inductance and resistance, but the impedance stays the same. This is the load the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance balance and cancel each other out. The capacitance and inductance per foot is fixed. I hope this helps. By the way the resistive loss per foot is not the same for RG8 and RG58 even though they both have a 50 ohm impedance. I hope this helps. Impedance does not equal anything near DC resistance. Zero DC resistance in a wire including 50 ohm coaz and 120 ohm CAT 5 cable would be very nice. Zero resistance can not remove inductance or capacitiance from a conductor.
The truth shall set you free!
For anyone who does not what damping is, it is the ability of an amplifier to stop a moving speaker cone in it's tracks. A simple demonstration is take a speaker and disconnect it from a system and drum your fingers on the woofer. It will sound like a drum and the cone moves easily. Now put a short on the speaker terminals and drum again. The cone moves very little and the hollow drum sound is gone (in a good speaker) or reduced greatly. This is what damping is. It is the reason amplifiers have an output impedance of much less than one ohm. It's to keep the speaker from "ringing" after a transient event. That is damping. High resitance of long and or small gauge wire reduces the ability of a good amplifier to damp the speaker. The impedance marked on the back of the amp is the recomended impedance of the speaker load, not the output impedance of the amplifier. A speaker load impedance too low just draws too much current and overheats the amplifier. A good amplifier will have either the impedance marked in ohms or the damping factor which is the inverse of impedance. Hence an amp with damping of 60 has an impedance of 0.017 ohms. This is why long wires that are too small are detrimental to sound quality. (which is a good amp)
The truth shall set you free!
I like Phasetech speakers and Denon reciever/tuner
As x approaches total apathy I couldn't care less.
I agree with the people that suggest buying used. I bought a decent pair of speakers, a receiver, sub and sub amp for $500 that would have retailed for over $2000 brand new. I would suggest putting more money into the speakers than into the reciever. Be sure that the reciever can do the popular digital DVD formats, at least Dolby digital and DTS (you will probably have to buy the reciever new). As for the speakers i would go used here, and try to get a decent pair of speakers for L and R, and go a little smaller for center and surrounds (but don't get the tiny little things). And go for a decent sub and let the dealer know the size of your room (larger sub for larger volumes of room space). I have a 12" and it is probably to big for my space, but i got a deal on it.
;) On those setups you really start to see the limitations of DVD 480i compared to HDTV 1080i (even when the DVD was line quadrupled to HDTV resolution). I'll be spoiled forever after seeing those demos (the equipment at the DTS home theater demo added up to over 1M$)... oh well, i can dream can't I.
It's a shame that they got a TV that's capable of 480progressive inputs and they didn't get a DVD player that can ouput it. I would have suggested spending the extra few hundred bucks to get a DVD player that supports progressive scan output and also could handle the new DVD-Audio discs (just incase they make it big). The JVC XVD723GD can handle both of these and can be had under $600 here and also at Crutchfield. If you don't know what progressive scan is, think the difference between the oldschool computer monitors that were interlaced, and the newer mutlisync ones (progressive scan). You can definitely see a difference.
I was at CES this past weekend and there were some really great home theater demo setups. Almost all of them either had projecters (with 100+" screens) or one of those plasma TV's. I'm personaly holding out to get a decent projector that i could also run my computer through (nothing like a 100" monitor that can do 1920 by 1080
have fun shopping...
I picked up a Cambridge Soundworks "MovieWorks 5.1" speaker package and a Marantz SR7000 receiver about a year ago. The receiver has more ins and outs than I'll ever need all 5 digital inputs are assignable to any input source, it's got optical and coaxial digital out, 6 channel line-level output, 100 watts x 5 channel amplifier, Dolby Digital and DTS decoding and a learning remote that has replaced six others. The speakers have been great. The switchable bipole/dipole speakers offer a pronounced difference depending on the source recording. And the 100 watt 12" sub shakes the whole house! I love it and chicks dig it, too. I'm not so sure about my neighbors, though. ub-ub
Expensive, but excellent quality. (And I love the little speakers!)
What I do is listen to speakers that are in the ballpark of my budget and get those. Speakers are what you listen to and have the most impact on the quality of sound. At one time it was recommended to allocate 50% of your budget to speakers and the rest to electronics, but that may have changed with the advent of 5+ channels of sound. As for a receiver, just get whatever does the digital decoding that you want and is good. I have an Onkyo, but many others make fine receivers.
I second this reccomendation! audioreview.com is a fantastic site. It is where I did most of my preliminary research when I was looking for a similar system. The other site I found with great info on general home theatre issues is avsforum.com.
As far as actually choosing a receiver and speakers goes, I suggest people make a shortlist of items to check out, then be sure to audition them, ideally at the same store on the same setup! After reading all the reviews and holy wars over which receivers were best, I went and listened to as many reccomended ones as I could. I was shocked at how HORRIBLY BAD some of the popular choices sounded (even in the higher end of the price range)!
In the end, it came down to the Marantz SR7000 and the Denon 3300 for me, with the Marantz winning out primarily because in my area it was significantly cheaper than the Denon, and I had a hard time really properly auditioning the Denon.
The Yamaha line has a lot of punch for home theatre, but to me it sounds harsh compared to the Marantz and the Denon. The Marantz in particular sounds good on music and home theatre, which seems to be a rarity in the receiver market.
As for speakers, I went with PSB's, but here in Canada that was an easy choice because they are made here, and cost far less here than in the US. If I were in the US I would have auditioned more speaker options I suppose.
To reiterate my primary point, be certain to audition as many receivers/speakers on your shortlist as possible! Don't take anyone else's word when it comes to sound quality - you have to hear it for yourself and decide what you like the sound of best.
Okay, the deal with those studio monitors is this... They are fine speakers, however they've been designed (and the reason they're used in almost EVERY studio, along with some JBL models) to sound like incredibly good consumer speakers. The audio engineer needs to know what the recording is going to sound like on a "typical" system. The engineer will also listen to it on audiophile type gear to determine actual recording quality. That doesn't take away from your speakers they make good sound, however they are not of the same type as your typical audiophile speakers. Audiophile speakers will always make trade offs for. Basically, there's only so far a dollar will go and to get great quality midrange (usually considered the most important aspect of a speaker) you have to sacrifice good bass, or great highs (tweeters from Dynaudio cost over $1000 each!).
moonaudio.com
They have a good listing of extremely expensive high end audio, along with links to most major manufacturers.
On the 2 channel gear this is what I had (sold it for a damn house *sigh*)...
Sonic Frontiers Power 2 power amp
Classe CP47.5 Preamp
Audiomecha Mephisto II CD Transport
Goldmund Mimesis something er other DAC
Projekt 6 turntable (don't remember the arm or cartridge, but it was damn sweet sounding. Too bad LP's are such a pain to deal with).
PBN Montana XP speakers
If your at all familiar with high end audio, this stuff is to die for. I guess a house is a better investment, but I miss the stuff. Now I just have a little 2 channel rig to pass the time.
There have been some good comments on speaker brands to consider: Paradigm, B&W, Energy are all good suggestions. NHT might be out of the price range since their cheapest audiophile speakers, the SuperZero absolutely requires a good subwoofer ($700-800) to be decent, especially for home theater. I find Klipsh a little harsh, but to each his own. One brand I didn't see mentioned was PSB. Their Alpha series is quite good and about $100-$150/speaker I think. More general advice: 1) Listen to everything you can find in your price range at good stereo stores. Stay away from Best Buy/CC for speakers. 2) I've seen stereo stores who've gone out and bought a Bose system so that their customers can compare Bose with audiophile speakers. If you are curious, try it. But don't buy Bose just because someone told you they are the best. Listen first, then form your opinions. 3) Look seriously at buying inexpensive speakers from a company that makes multi-kilobuck speakers too. The design knowledge filters down. 4) Consider going used to stretch your dollars. I won't comment on receivers except to say that if you have to skimp on something, skimp on the receiver. Technology there changes and you may want to replace it in five years no matter what. Good speakers can last 20 years or more.
Many of the systems being suggested here aren't that good. Klipsch's are like every other horn system, they are efficient at certain frequencies, and inefficient at others. And like other horn instruments, like trombones and trumpets, they have frequencies where standing waves set up, and make the system louder or softer. This makes horn systems fine for auditoriums and stadiums, where you need high volume and low fidelity, but poor choices for home where you have lower volumes, and lower background noise. Bose is adequate, but they are better at marketing than engineering.
In the myth arena is Monster Cable, green markers on CD-ROMs, CD-ROM stabilizers (inertia/momentum rings), titanium vibration isolation cones, and vacuum tubes. If someone ones me to post more on those, I will, but they are of no proven benefit, and are aimed at those with money to waste.
What you are after is something you are happy with. In the end, what you buy matters no more than whether its an AMD or an Intel in the box. If you're happy with it while it's running, and you are comfortable with what you spent -- then you've got a good system. There are various people who fancy themselves to be "golden ears", able to somehow hear statistically insignificant levels of distortion that even the best musicians cannot hear, and marketers continually create products aimed at people who don't want to be left out; who want to feel they are in this top tier; who purchase these overpriced, snake-oil products because some "friend" recommended it.
My system: Accoustic Research AR-5's for the front channels, powered by a Carver amp, with a Carver preamp doing the Dolbly decoding from a Pioneer 414 (?) DVD player. The center channel is an RCA center channel picked up for cheap at Radio Shack. The rear channels are from some place that was discontinuing the model, and instead of $300/apiece, I got them for $75/apiece. The subwoofer is under construction, and I've got more amps for it.
You need: good, full-range front channel speakers, preferably about 2 cu. ft. in size. A decent center channel, smaller rear channels (since Dolby surround and all those cuts all the bass and much of the high-end). A subwoofer is optional, but with the big front-channel speakers I've got, I don't really need it when playing Bond films or The Matrix.
Spend about $300 on a stereo. I got a nice Sony combo unit from Circuit City for around $350. I paid extra because of the 50+1 CD changer.
Spend the other $1000 in good alcoholic beverages.
Drink large amounts of the beverages.
You're system will sound just as good as everyone elses, your dick will be the same lenght as it was before, and if you're lucky you might have a jolly good time.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Although it is more for the audio enthusiast (as opposed to home theater), I like goodsound.com both for equipment reviews as well as sound, generic buying advice.
-- "Complacency is a far more dangerous attitude than outrage." -Naomi Littlebear
However, spending an extra dollar on the speakers is going to get you more than spending the extra dollar on the receiver. If I were going to go out and buy an audio system today and was willing to spend $1.5k I'd be looking to spend about $400 on the receiver (the JVC RX-8000V I have sells for about this much and has quite good sound and lots of features) and the remainder on speakers.
I would avoid like the plague any sort of setup that has 5 tiny little speakers and a huge subwoofer to make up for their lack of bass and midrange response. I find that these setups leave a lot to be desired in terms of midrange and bass response. Boston makes some excellent speakers and are definately worth checking out in particular their VR series.
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I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
For our house, we ended spending the most amount of our cash on small speakers that could produce some nice highs and then using a relativly high cross over point on our subwoofer. Something about our living room just seemed to suck the highs out of pretty much any speaker we could find until we bought 4 infinity reference monitors and a sony center channel. Tied it all to a Velvodine (sp?) 10 inch powered sub, ran the optics out of the DVD and into the pioneer receiever, plummed the whole thing via SVideo into an RCA projection TV. Only regret is owning the projection TV, the colors just arent there like in a tube.
www.linux-skunkworks.com
Unless you go really high-end, Paradigms are tough to beat. They're usually the best value at any given price point -- bless the Canucks and the strong dollar. Buy whatever model you can afford. If you're mainly interested in Home Theater, then I'd go with the matching speakers all-around. If music is more important, I'd devote more money to the main speakers, then the center-channel, then the surrounds (which is what I did). I'd still use the same brand all-around to make sure the timbre matching is good. Get a subwoofer if you want better rumbling tanks/stomping dinosaurs/earth-shattering explosions (actually, a powered subwoofer also helps with music by taking the load off of your receiver for the low end). Of course, if you live in an apartment or condo, the subwoofer might make you unpopular with the neighbors.
As far as A/V receivers go, I'm a fan of Denon, but I can't argue with NAD. Onkyo is also pretty well regarded.
Like any cable there are quality control concerns. But from what I've seen there wasn't much difference in build quality with the monster brand VS a generic.
The problem is really in transmission. A cheap LED system like TOS can have issues with minor power surges and spikes. In a big AV system there can be a lot of different compoents pulling large power loads at various times. A Laser system generally is better regulated, and has a very constant wavelength. Cheaper LEDs do not. You have to understand that most of the TOS transmitters cost about a dollar each in mass. You're not looking at a high quality, over engineered part. It does what it does and generally it does is well enough. But I wouldn't stake my life on all the bits getting to the destination in tact. Just the majority of them.
The most important thing is that speakers be positioned properly and mounted on rigid stands. Speaker positioning is a large topic that I can't go into depth here but there are many excellent articles on the web (use Google). Important things to remember are that corners are never a good spot for speakers. The stands should be heavy (most can be filled with sand or lead shot) and mounted on adjustable spikes. The spikes are adjustable so you can match the contours of your floor (which is never perfectly flat). This allows you to set the stands so when you put your hand on top of the speaker and try to wiggle it the speaker will not move. This is important as if the speaker can wiggle than some energy will be lost. Any setup can get you 90% of the way there, but in high performance audio it's that last 10% where all the action is (and your ears/brain can really tell the difference). Trust me on this one, spending some bucks on nice rigid speaker stands with spikes on the bottom (use floor protectors under them if you have a hardwood floor) makes a big difference, it's not just cosmetic.
Subwoofers also need careful placement. While your brain cannot localize deep bass, improper placement can cause phase cancellation with the other speakers which creates comb filtering that sounds bad. Many subwoofers have phase adjustment but there is no substitute for proper placement in the first place.
In short, it's not worth spending a lot of money on good audio equipment if you don't bother to learn to set it up properly. Spending a few days with trial and error speaker placement, using your favorite and best sounding CD for reference, can make all the difference.
Stereophile, a magazine dedicated to ridiculously expensive audio reproduction equipment, has some nice articles on low/zero cost "tweaks" (such as speaker placement) that can greatly improve the sound of your system. Some of it may sound pretty tweaky, and some of it is, but by and large it is sound advice (no pun intended). Search their archives for "Fine Tunes"
Burris
Anybody who refers to a digital connection having "jitter" doesn't understand the technology.
The real reason to go with coax over digital is that you can use regular video cables instead of more expensive, and shorter, optical cables. Not all cables will work on the coax connection, but a given cable either will or won't work; there is no qualitative element involved. Plus, I hear that the optical cables use plastic fibers rather than glass, which probably explains why they aren't very long.
So go with coax, because it's going to be cheaper and more reliable.
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"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
The first thing to decide in a receiver is what type and how many connections you need.
Figure out how many audio-only components you have (or will have) and how many audio/video components you need to support. If your receiver doesn't have enough inputs to support them, you're hosed (or have to mess with a secondary switch; ick).
For example, I need:
DVD player: audio/S-video inputs, optical input
VCR: audio/video inputs, audio/video outputs
ReplayTV: audio/S-video inputs, audio/S-video outputs.
and so on.
You can use splitters on the non-digital outputs, if you don't have enough.
Keep in mind with the S-video and composite connections that in most cases you need to hook up both, unless all your components only use S-video. Many receivers don't convert between the two, so you'll need to use the composite out if you're relying on a composite input somewhere.
If you don't think tubes can make a real difference, you've either never heard a properly set up tube audio system, or you've simply ignored the evidence of your senses in favor of the pseudo-scientific snake oil of the mainstream audio world. Well-designed tube amplifiers with proper speakers sound far better than virtually any solid-state amplifiers. There are sound electrical engineering and psychoacoustic reasons for this, but they're lost in the simpleminded marketing bullshit of watts and THD specs, often to the point where listeners make up nonsense like "euphonic distortion" to explain why the tube system sounds so much better than their "audiophile" solid-state systems with gobs of power and low THD.
The basic problem is that the human ear is very good about filtering out signal-following distortions even at high levels (which is why a subwoofer with 10% distortion, like an excellent $2000 Velodyne, is even tolerable), but is extremely sensitive to distortions that don't modulate along with the signal. What we find in the electrical real world of the amp-speaker interface is a lot of mechanically stored energy messing with the signal. Say the amp spits out a big pulse of energy. The speaker stores MOST of that energy as mechanical crud, then spits it back into the amp as an electrical signal, maybe tens or hundreds of milliseconds later (speakers are maybe 1% efficient... where does the 99% go, except to mechanical and thermal dissipation? And a speaker motor also works as a generator for mechanically stored energy in the suspension. This is high school physics). That energy coming back from the speaker in a highly distorted, nonlinear way gets fed back to the beginning of the amplifier via the global negative feedback loop (required to make transistors even remotely linear) as *error correction*, and thus modulates totally unrelated signals occuring well after the original pulse.
And that's just the *beginning* of the problem. This is a very, very difficult problem, despite the simpleton math the marketing departments of the audio makers feed you.
Triode vacuum tubes are the ONLY amplifying devices linear enough to follow a voltage signal accurately without a feedback loop. The better tubes have distortion so low it is difficult to measure. And, as they approach their output limits, the distortion in a properly designed amplification stage is mostly second harmonic - so benign is is inaudible at less than 5% levels, and is perceived as an increase in loudness beyond that. A triode output stage can absorb reflected energy from the speaker via its own impedance, without feeding "error correction" back into previous stages. Thus, a triode with no negative feedback is MUCH better behaved into complex reactive loads with mechanical energy storage - i.e. speakers. The relatively high measured THD of such amps just shows the stupidity of THD measurements.
I could go on into numerous other shortcomings of transistors as amplifying devices for music, but this is a start.
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Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
Check out http://www.audioreview.com to look at reviews for different components. It's a good place to start looking at a ton of different devices.
I have a full set of Cambridge SoundWorks speakers in my setup right now. I used their MovieWorks 5.1 speaker system (large center channel, matched pair for left & right, matched pair for left and right surrounds, and a BassCube 10), and added an extra pair of surrounds for the left and right rear surround channels, for a full 6.1 setup. The entire set cost me about $1600, however, so that might fall a little out of your range. They do have less expensive sets, however, and I've never had a problem with their sound quality.
As far as a receiver goes, I'm using a B&K AVR307 system. It's THX EX certified, and it has more inputs/outputs than I can possibly use. Plus it's upgradeable for future standards (you can swap one of the logic boards and upgrade the software). And it has a serial port for hooking into a home automation system. But that piece was about $3500 alone. I decided that I'd rather spend the money on a really good receiver, since the receiver is going to limit the quality of any other component in the system.
-Todd
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"The details of my life are quite inconsequential..."
A few things I've learned while shopping recently for a music-listening system (only 2 channels):
1. You may have the impression that one $500 amp is going to sound pretty much the same as another $500 amp (or $1000, or $2000...). It's not true. And it's easy to prove. Go and find yourself a high-end audio store and listen to a half-dozen different setups. And I'm not talking about your local stereo-videogame-and-toaster store here, I mean a real high-end store that sells $10,000 turntables and such, and you can actually listen for ten minutes in a quiet room. Oh, and listen to the same (music, movies) everywhere you go. You'll notice a suprising amount of difference in the sound.
2. Different speakers and amplifiers have different sounds that sound better to different people. Go and listen to a handful of systems and figure out what you like.
3. Unfortunately, all the audioreview.com reviews seem to follow this pattern: eight out of ten reviewers say "sounds great. If you only have $xxx to spend, this is the (amp|speaker) you should buy". Then there's two reviewers who absolutely hate the sound because it's too bright or lifeless. This is true of $500 stuff and $5000 stuff. Since every review follows that same pattern, it's impossible to compare two pieces of equipment realistically.
4. Cheap equipment will drag down the sound. $2000 speakers won't sound too hot on a $200 amplifier. Try and spread your money around to maximize overall system performance.
5. I know I said this in #1 and #2, but go and listen to a bunch of systems at good stores. You really don't need to be an audiophile to hear the difference. Just go and spend a few afternoons hitting the stores and you'll be glad you did.
6. Many high-end shops will let you try stuff out at home. Ask and see if they'll let you.
7. There's a lot of BS floating around out there. Don't believe what other people say. Go and figure it out for yourself.
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314-15-9265
My current home theater rig consists of the following:
61" Sony XBR300 TV
Lexcion DC-1 Preamp (rumor has it George Lucas had one of these things :) )
Parasound HCA-1206 power amp
Toshiba 5109 DVD player (has progressive out)
Sony DSS
Some damn SVHS VCR that I have yet to use
Citation 7000 series speakers
Now... all of that stuff retails for something on the wrong side of $30,000, but you'd be a fool to think I'd actually spend that much money on it. I picked up the power amp, preamp, and speakers all used, at an average of about 1/3 of retail pricing.
So... my whole hearted recommendation is spend some time looking at the used market! Also, stay away from the Good Guys, Circuit City, etc. These stores carry CRAP. Find a local high end dealer and talk to them. Usually their prices are movable and you can do some wheeling and dealing. Also, checkout auidoadvisor.com. They currently have what appears to be the deal of the century at the moment... A complete KEF (excellent speaker brand) 5.1 speaker system for $900.
Here's a short list of good brands to look for:
Electronics (receivers, preamps, amps, etc.)
NAD
Parasound
Some Denon/Yamaha
Anthem
Sherwood Newcastle (make sure it's NEWCASTLE!)
B&K
Adcom
Speakers:
B&W
Paradigm
PSB
KEF
NHT
Aerial
Energy
Boston Accoustics
Brands to stay away from:
Sony (some of the ES Stuff is okay)
BOSE (don't by it, no matter what)
sub $500 recievers from ANYONE (these things are just piles of junk)
Kenwood
Sherwood (non newcastle stuff)
Yamaha speakers
Cerwin Vega
JVC (their SVHS VCRs are the best, however)
Awia
Also, here are a few good links to used audio sites:
audioshopper.com
audiogon.com
jmsound.com
jeffsoundvalues.com
Hope that helps, and for what it's worth, I've spent a good amount of time these past few years learning about all of this crap and if you use the guide above you should get a perfectly good system. I've left out super high end brands, thinking most people not be interested, but if you are just ask.