Slashdot Mirror

There is a federal law about this. If you log the information about who they are and what company and the time they called, etc, you can get them for up to $500 paid to YOU for each time they call you after you say put me on your do not call list. They are allowed one or two "mistake" calls though. There's a neat little program that allows you to keep a log of this stuff and at the same time shows the appropriate laws to quote to demand the information from the caller like who he's calling from. I haven't used it very much yet, since I dont get many telemarketers calling but I plan to, if I'm near a computer when they call that is :)

This may be a program recommended by Junkbusters (not sure) ... ENIGMA . This baby guides you through the relevant questions to ask when those annoying scum-of-the-earth telemarketers call. It allows YOU to take control of the call and ultimately ends up having them add your number to their official Do Not Call list, which they are required to maintain by law. It also keeps a log of the calls and allows you to document persistent offenders in cases where you might have the opportunity to sue the bastards for violating the law.

When I first got Enigma, I was being bombarded by TM calls. One round of calls with Enigma and now I am virtually telemarketing free! Yay! I actually wanted the bastards to call back so I could sue them and/or make documented complaints to the proper authorities. Unfortunately they haven't been calling so I haven't had the ultimate joy yet, but some day I know they will call back. I'll be waiting.

You need to take advantage of the TCPA and extract $500 damages from them. Some people have extracted more than $40,000 from these people. To learn more, visit:

Junk Busters

Use Enigma to log the calls

See if the FCC is already after them

I have already been offered $250 from one telemarketing firm - but I want to go to trial. Also, since I have used the JunkBuster anti-telemarketing script, I am lucky to get any calls at all. The last call was from Qwest on last month - a month after I was sent a letter from one of their lawyers explaining I was on their "do not call list". That call will make me $500 to $1500 when we go to court :)

I just downloaded this little program and it fsckin' rocks! You can easily log all your telemarketing calls, and cite the specific laws from the federal regulations. Highly recommended!

Download it here

You can filter based on TCP ports, UDP ports, and IP protocols. It may not be a big & clever firewall, but it's better than nothing.

Also, I actually know a great deal about the laws regulating telemarketers (although certainly not as much as you probably have probably learned in the course of your research). A useful link you might want to put online as your site progresses is for the free Enigma software (which I first read of on Lockergnome which is just a little program that helps you keep track of and respond to telemarketers, letting you quote relevant laws.

The main problem you seem to have with my comment is, I believe, the same that several others have had - with my third point. Unfortunately, I think it may be a misunderstanding, because I did not quote the original article thoroughly enough before responding to it. When I said "no, no, no," I was responding to the question about whether "such behavior" could be "combatted." But if you go back to the original article, you'll see that Cliff was writing about whether laws like those that protect you from phone harassment (from pranksters instead of telemarketers) could also be used against DDOS attackers. I definitely don't think that's a good idea. And I greatly fear that the guaranteed protections of free speech will become dangerously entangled with computer code (indeed, they already are), which could provoke unfortunate unexpected consequences for both programmers and law enforcement.

Finally, one last point about something you wrote: "doesn't realize that the First Amendment and all the legal precedents set by the Supreme Court deal with INDVIDUALS and that telemarketers are calling on the behalf of a corporation/company. The activities of a company CAN be and ARE regulated, including what they CAN and CANNOT SAY."

I'm sorry to say you are incorrect. The distinction is not between individuals and corporations. There are no special rules on companies, or other corporate bodies. In fact, the word "corporate body" is redundant - the word "corporation" etymologically means "body," because a corporation is treated like a single person, rather than a mere association of individuals. Congress cannot make special laws restricting the speech of corporations.

However, Congress can make laws restricting the actions of individuals and corporations - and the Supreme Court has ruled in cases since about the days of WWI that certain things that are literally "speech" are actually actions - such as yelling fire in a crowded theather - and can thereby be regulated. The regulations and restrictions placed on telemarketers are not placed on their freedom of speech, but rather on their freedom to take certain "actions." If you were an individual (and not a corpoation) soliciting for money over the phone during restricted times of day, I bet you could be punished the same way a corporation would be.

Thanks very much for your thoughtful comments. And I very much look forward to watching your telemarketing pages progress.

Yours,
A. Keiper
Washington, D.C.

Mickonline dun said:

I've actually worked in telemarketing The only way you ever take someone's name off (for any type of financial telemarketing) is if they are a pensioner i.e. we couldn't sell them anything. In addition, if we determined from a few houses that this was a low income area we would write that down. So if you don't want to be rung, tell them you're 80 with no money. However, since the CD's with everyones phone numbers on them are sold from company to company, only one company will ever cross you off their list.

Dear Mickonline:

I would be extremely interested to know which telemarketing firm you worked for.

I would like to know this, because if they ever call me I want to be able to nail their balls to the wall. >:)=

You see...your company engaged in two flatly illegal practices.

Firstly...if someome requests that they be placed on your "do not call" list, by law you must maintain that list for ten years. Furthermore, if they also request that you send them your "do not call" policy, you are again required by law to send that to them. (FWIW--you are required to have a "do not call" policy--it's quite illegal to operate without one.)

More info on the law and legal requirements for telemarketers here. Please note that should you violate the law and you run into someone sufficiently pissy (such as myself), such fsck-ups as NOT adding my name to your do-not-call list can be expensive (victims are entitled to sue for $500 per offense, $1500 per "willful" offense [i.e. you knew damn well what you were doing was wrong]...in most states you may sue for up to $1500 in small claims court (no lawyers required), most courts will give summary judgement in favour of the plaintiff if nobody from the telemarketing firm shows up, the court can send a summons to pay the fine Or Else, and court judgements in your favour look very nice in formal complaints to the FCC asking them to Please Shut The Mother-Fsckers Down. :)

The second illegal practice is redlining--purposely blocking out low-income or minority neighbourhoods. (Yes, if you are dealing with finances at all, redlining is illegal in the US. Same if you're dealing in real estate, insurance, etc.--a bank here in Kentucky just got smacked rather hard because it was found that it was redlining low-income minority communities in terms of house loans.) Trust me that if it is ever found out by the feds your former company does this, they might end up not being able to so much as loan a homeless person two bucks for a bottle of Mad Dog 20/20. :) Redlining is still unfortunately common, but the authorities (such as HUD, federal banking regulators, etc.) are becoming far less tolerant of it.

(As an aside--just FWIW, I'm merely writing as a Private Joe who has little tolerance for discrimination (I grew up in a low-income part of the Louisville metro area that was constantly being shat on by the city--literally being used as their dumping grounds for garbage and minimalls and the airport because they figured "the poor hicks in the south part ain't gonna bitch") and little to no tolerance for telemarketers (I literally don't accept calls from telemarketers and survey agencies unless it is from a survey agency that I have called first and who will give me stuff like free food, etc. for my time and trouble :)--even political surveys, I will deliberately give BS answers just to skew their statistics), not to mention junk mailers (I freely admit to using spamtrap names and/or addresses if I must give personal info out--both for email AND snail-mail). Unless you REALLY make it worth my time, don't bother contacting me--if I want to get a service from you, I'll contact you, thank you. :)

(Part of why I am so pissy on this is I've had to deal with Bad Telemarketers like Chemlawn, who literally refused to get off the phone even after I had told them five times that I was not interested, I wanted on their do-not-call list, and I actually WANTED weeds to grow in my yard because I was setting up a nature sanctuary (!). AND they had the audacity to call back a week later, upon which I asked to speak to their supervisor and gave them an earful. They have not called back since.)

It's rather easy to keep from getting telemarketing calls:

1) Use the magic words "Please put me on your do not call list, please remove me from any lists you may sell to other telemarketing agencies, and please mail me a copy of your do not call policy." (The last two are important, because they show you aren't fscking about and it gives the telemarketers more rope to hang themselves by. :)

2) If they get pissy or call you afterwards, ask to speak to the manager (after getting the telemarketer's name, of course). Explain the law to the manager, and ask him at each point if he is aware that:

He must maintain a do-not-call list for 10 years

He must maintain a do-not-call policy and send it on request

He must remove your name from lists sold to other telemarketing agencies on request

He must not call before 9 am local time or after 9 pm local time

If they do not do the above, they are liable under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act for $500 per offense, $1500 per "willful" offense (they knew what they were doing).

Then state, clearly, the spiel in 1) above and state that you are putting them on notice that if they don't send the do-not-call policy and/or they call you at ALL in the next ten years, you will be taking them to small claims court for willful violation of the TCPA. Document all this info including time of the call, etc.

3) If they are the least bit naughty to you (i.e. they call again, fail to mail a do-not- call policy, etc.) then sue the bastards. :) Most telemarketers won't show up in court, it costs anywhere from free to around fifty dollars to file a case in small claims court, and you get anywhere from $500 to $1500 per offense--in a way, it really IS a way to "make money fast". :) Courts will handle collections, by the way--if they don't pay, they suddenly become more in trouble (read: contempt of court--in the worst case, the CEOs can be jailed till they pay up).

4) Investigate your state's telemarketing laws and see if there's even MORE stuff you can use against them. (In Kentucky, for instance, there are actual CRIMINAL penalties for violating the laws--we also have stricter time-of-day requirements (no calls before 10 am), a statewide "do-not-call" list maintained by the Attorney-General that uses "asterisked-numbers" listed in the phone book, and it is illegal to telemarket using a recording (you MUST speak to a live human within five seconds of the call, or they just broke Kentucky law).) Check with your Attorney-General's office, or look under your state's name and "consumer protection".

5) There are some phone services very useful in avoiding telemarketers (and in some cases, tracing just WHERE they got your name). Availability varies from state to state--check with your telco. Among them:

Having your phone listing under an obviously false pseudonym (Joe Dredd, Fred Flintstone, George Jetson, etc.)

Unpublished numbers--more expensive but invaluable in not only avoiding a lot of telemarketing calls but also in tracing the sellers of numbers--some telemarketers actually buy their number lists from the phone company. (It is a good idea in general to explicitly inform the phone company that you want on their do-not-call list and you want your name removed from all lists they sell to other parties.)

Various Caller ID packages such as Anonymous Call Block (in some areas it DOES block telemarketers--in Kentucky, for instance, they have to provide a number on Caller ID by law), Unknown Number Verification (dial a number before you can talk to the person), etc.

In some states, like Florida and Kentucky, there are statewide do-not-call lists. Call your telco or Attorney-General's office for more info.

6) Junkbuster's Telemarketer's Script is invaluable for documenting telemarketing calls (among other things, it lists the questions you need to ask if you want to "make money fast" from telemarketers if/when they misbehave ;). For that matter, the entire telemarketing section is invaluable IMHO. (A wee note--I'm not entirely unbiased. I've had very good results, even at my old place, with their tips--I happen to be the client they're quoting. ;) This was at a residence that'd get 4-10 telemarketing calls a DAY, mind--getting them whittled to one or two a week was a major accomplishment, one done largely through Junkbuster's tips. Oh, and BTW, their script IS GPL'd--you can tweak it to your liking (to include state laws, etc.) as long as you give 'em credit.)

7) There are actual devices, such as one sold by Public Citizen, that basically have a button one can press to automagically give the "add my number to your do not call list" spiel. (By Grud, they use machines like predictive dialers--why shouldn't you? ;) Most of these are around $30 US or so--links here (for Phone Butler) or here (for Phone Filter. There are several devices of this type around, some even being sold at stores like Service Merchandise and Sears--shop around.

8) If you've got Winblows (or Wine--I see no real reason why it couldn't work unde Wine) you might take a look at Engima, which is a nice little proggie to let you fill out the script on computer. (There is a Mac version linked from the site; I see no reason why a Linux version couldn't possibly be developed somehow.)

9) The ultimate in deterrance of telemarketers (at least if you've got ADSL or cable-modem service) is probably doing away with the landline and getting a cell phone. Telemarketing calls to cell phones are illegal in the US, and most areas give cell phones their own exchanges so that telemarketers can filter them out.

Again--these are just tactics (well, besides 7-9; I run Linux, like the pleasure of bitching out the telemarketers myself, and neither Insight@Home nor Hellsouth ADSL are much of options--I'm waiting for more competition in Louisville's ADSL market because I can get it cheaper than through Hellsouth) I've used, and quite successfully--if you start these at the moment you get a phone line, and adopt a "zero tolerance" policy towards telemarketers, you CAN eventually wipe out telemarketing calls from your lines altogether. (No, I am not making this up. On my (unpublished, Caller-ID-enabled, anon-call-blocked, statewide-do-not-call-listed, with-me-leading-the-war-on-telemarketers on the other end armed with Junkbusters script in hand should they get through THAT flotilla of "leave me alone" deterrance) I've actually succeeded in making it where I don't get telemarketing calls. It helps a lot that Kentucky does have additional laws; it also helps that the numbers are unpublished (they can't even get them through Directory Assistance--the only way they get them is if Hellsouth sells the numbers) and the three companies that have had the audacity to telemarket these numbers in the year I've had them got it made COMPLETELY plain that I do not want calls, EVER, and I entirely mean to clue-by-four them into submission should they ever forget that. ;) It IS possible to live free from Telemarketing Hell, though. (One must sometimes be a bitch, yes. Sometimes bitchiness is necessary. Most get the point with just 1), though. The later steps are for if they have proven themselves Naughty, like Chemlawn or the company mickonline apparently worked for. ;)

For the "H" word, I just had to. :-) It's actually a NeXTstation, not that it's relevant. And it's usually turned off as I don't have a desk for it right now. These are all home machines.

Azathoth is a Sun 670MP, with 2 processors, that is also in a down state for the time being. With winter coming I'll probably use it to heat the garage. :-)

More details about these machines can be found here.

And then there's my 386/40 that's been running the RC5/DES client without a hiccup for the last 423 days and counting. 20,000 keys/sec is nothing to snicker at! :-) You can read about this machine, called Nodens, and some of my other machines, here.

And then there's my 386/40 that's been running the RC5/DES client without a hiccup for the last 423 days and counting. 20,000 keys/sec is nothing to snicker at! :-) You can read about this machine, called Nodens, and some of my other machines, here.