The Joys Of Big Business; or Why AT&T Long Distance Sux

So, as today is a somewhat slow day, and I've had the galling experience of dealing with the phone system today, I thought I'd give a small piece of my mind about that wonderful practice known as phone slamming, and what wonderful practices Big Business likes to engage in.

I've recently moved to Boston, as those who've been on IRC with us, and watched the news lately have seen. It's great -- I love the city, and I like where I live. When moving, I had to do the typical thing of signing the house up for electric, gas, water and all that good stuff. One of the interesting things that Boston differs from Holland in is that you can have different local phone providers. Not being very happy to start with concerning Bell Atlantic/Verizon, I opted instead for another giant media company, MediaOne. They only offered local service, not long distance, so I selected MCI Worldcom as my long distance. I'd been happy with them before, and they offered me frequent flyer miles.

I'm happily going along this morning, deleting submissions when I get call from MCI Worldcom wondering why one of my lines has left MCI. After spending the 30 minutes to convert my line back, I become progressively more frustrated.

You see, the FTC had given MediaOne and AT&T permission to merge, which they did recently. Since then, I've gotten a call a day on my lines, asking me to switch to AT&T for long distance. I refuse. It costs more, and I don't get frequent flyer miles. I've told them this, but they somehow persist, thinking perhaps that they can wear me down, like so much water on rock.

But they evidently decided that me saying No meant Yes, and so slammed me. I hate this practice. What a waste of time and energy. And they know that they'll lose my business, and that if I get my gumption up I'll call the State AG's office. I think is illegal. If not, it should be.

How many other people have had problems with this?

Comments

ATT Billing Nightmare

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had two nightmares with ATT. Yes, two. First, and old ATT calling card got hacked and I started recieving bills with thousands of dollars on it. It took months, and ATT final sent the bill to a debt collector. Second, many years later I cashed one of those $70 checks ATT was sending. Pay back time. I left that apartment years ago, but even time a new tenant comes in, --I-- get the bill at the new address. This has happened more than once and everything someone at ATT says they have now "really closed the account". Of course now ATT has sent the $30.00 bill to a debt collector. I've written the Mass. Dept of Telecommunications (or whatever it is called). no reply. Any hints on what I should do? I'm also cancelling my MediaOne account. God knows what will happen. --nickg

Re:Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[Anonymous Coward]

They have a "reasonable period" to remove your number from the calling list. However, just having them add your name to the list is not enough. You need to demand that they send you written verification and a copy of their "Do not call" policy. Once you have those two items, sue them in small claims every single time you hear from them or one of their hired firms. Getting the judgement against them is easy, collecting it is the hard part. (Hire a collection firm) To date I've collected $3500 US from AT&T for calling me at home.... I just can't wait till they call my cell phone

Pick Freeze

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in California. PacBell has what's called a "pick freeze", and when I found out about it, I jumped on it. Now, our LD carrier cannot be changed by anyone--not even myself--without my *written* permission. Lots of other local companies around the country offer similar services. I'd ask your local carrier about something like this.

protect yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's an easy way to protect yourself: Send a letter to your local phone company asking for a "PIC (Primary Interexchange Carrier) freeze."

The freeze prevents anyone from switching your long-distance carrier without your approval--a problem that generated 1,900 complaints to the Federal Trade Commission over the past 12 months.

Another handy trick: Dial toll-free 700 555-4141 to learn exactly what long-distance carrier you're using now. (Here's hoping you're not surprised at the answer.) from http://businessweek.lycos.com/9912/ls_ib3658032.ht m

Easy Fix

[sullrich]

I have this device on my phone that I purchased at wal-mart. When I get a telemarketing call, I hang up and hit the button ($5.00 device) that tells the person (until they hang up) that the number they have called does not accept these types of calls. The best part of it is that the message repeats until they are long gone!!

Just my 2 cents...

Re:Paying ATT to stay away?

[MacJedi]

It's even worse! There is a service they sell to telemarketers which lets them get around the anti-telemarketer service!!!

Which makes me wonder if they also sell a service which blocks the anti-anti-telemarketer-service-service....

Re:Just Don't Sign Up for Long Distance

[drsoran]

They let you do that?? I don't make long distance calls at ALL and Ameritech insisted that if I didn't choose a long distance provider that they would still need to charge me the $5/month (or whatever it was) access charge. I relented and ended up just keeping AT&T who were also charging me $5/month. Pisses me off because it is an ISDN line that I only use to call a local number! I have an analog line that I can use to make long distance calls... or better yet, use my cell phone since the long distance is free. Looks like I need to give them a call again.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[drsoran]

That won't work. You want to tell them to put you on their "do not call" list. They next time they get a list you'll be on it otherwise and since you didn't asked to be removed from that new list yet.. they can call you. *sigh*

Re:How rich are you, -Ben?

[drsoran]

The poor already do have legal representation. It's called the public defender's office. Now, if you mean the poor should get the absolute best and brightest lawyers who win cases by the truckload, then that's never going to happen. The rich will always control the lawyers and the lobbyists, the lawyers control the courts and the lobbyists control the Congress. So, yes, the rich do control this country. It's been like that for 224+ years now and it is the cornerstone of our nation unfortunately.

Re:How to ca$h AT&T "Switch service" checks

[jkovach]

Hmm... Here in Maryland, Bell Atlantic let our family have AT&T on the main line and MCI on the modem line for a very long time. Eventually, MCI dropped service on the modem line. I guess this was because we never made any long distance calls. When I try to make a long distance call on the modem line, I always get "Your call cannot be completed" messages. Oh well. MCI was charging a $5/month minimum anyway.

Re:"Cramming" is a big problem too

[Froggie]

And British Telecom, as far as I know, limit their screwing every last penny out of people to residents of the UK.

Mind you, they're very good at it.

Perhaps HellSouth is appropriate

[marcus]

SWBell doesn't charge for lack of services, at least not by tariff ;-)

Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.

If your LD usage is so low...

[marcus]

...that you can't "use" the minimum, then drop the LD carrier completely and just use one of those 10-10-220-* style services.

Hell, since everyone in my family has gotten email access, LD usage has dropped to nearly zero. I dropped ALL LD service last year. Got "re-acquired" as a customer by AT&T and promptly called the service number to shut it off. They credited me for all the charges.

Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.

Re:If your LD usage is so low...

[Cramer]

I would but that turns out to be more expensive... HellSouth requires a LD carrier or they charge you a fee. I started to remove the LD carrier for my ISDN line as I never want it to be able to make a LD call. (I could always switch to BTI.)

I've had no specific long distance carrier...

[talks_to_birds]

...and an anti-slamming block for well over a year now.

CenturyTel, a little podunk operator for the hinterlands of Washington State *will* set you up this way *if* you ask.

Ask your telco what they can do for you -- but you gotta ask, 'cause they often don't offer to let you know about this sort of setup.

I got pissed at AT&T when they started charging me over $23.00 for *no* long distance calls whatsoever, and blew 'em away.

Look into it: between the 10-10-blahblahblah specials and a Costco phone card or two, if you don't do much (or any..) long distance calling, screw 'em!

t_t_b
--
I think not; therefore I ain't®

Re:I've had no specific long distance carrier...

[clink]

That's the way I do it too. In my area there is a $1/month charge to have "no LD carrier" but it's better than the $4 or $5 I was paying per month to ATT for the privilege of making asolutely no LD calls. I got so fed up with it that I made several more changes to my phone billing options and I now pay $11 month. Down from about $23. Watch em like a hawk!

MCI slammed me too

[Chang]

I have AT&T LD at home. I was recently slammed onto MCI. Aparently somebody filled out an offer for a Blockbuster coupon and used my name and address. So much for MCI's 3rd party verification procedures. They aren't the only telco with this loophole. Sprint has offers that they don't verify either.

It was fairly easy to switch back and then instruct my local telco (Ameritech) to block switching unless they did it. I did have to spend about an hour on the phone total, spread out over several weeks to make sure that everything was credited fairly.

The really shitty part is having to talk to MCI people who want to know why I left MCI. Sucks to be them since I honestly enjoy going to town on the poor bastards.

Seriously - have the Telco block LD switching. Being able to switch your service on the fly because some LD provider calls with a deal that sounds great isn't a necessity.

Slowing the slammers

[Storm]

I know in a couple of places that I have lived (Southwestern Bell area and GTE area), you can call the phone company and have them set up your lines so that they have to have a signed from you in order to change your long distance.

Now this may be a conflict of interest in your current situation since AT&T owns your local phone company, but it still holds the local company's feet to the fire in order to stop them from allowing these companies to slam you.

I was told that the reason for this form-based access method is that the long distance companies sometimes set up companies that do the long distance, but they charge exhorbitant rates for the same service. While the AT&Ts, MCIs and Sprints charge 5 cents a minute, these companies charge a quarter or more. You agree to sign up for one of the major ones, then a few months later, when you aren't watching, they give it to one of their subsidiary and start charging you at the higher cost.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Loundry]

They're not invading your privacy.

I say they are invading my privacy because they are invading my private, personal time to which I gave them no right. I regard it as a personal affront, not a legal one.

Oh? Really? So everybody has infinite skills in infinite fields, and can get whatever job they want at any time? I wasn't aware of that...

First, could you lay off the sarcasm please? Second, your argument is a strawman. I was not arguing that people are good enough to get any job they want, but instead that the job market is good enough that almost everyone has a choice of what kind of job they can get. Hence, everyone who is a telemarketer has an option of one of several jobs.

When people have to fight for their next meal, they do not have morals. They don't give a shit about you, or your fucking dinnertime, because they don't GET a dinnertime.

So the "not giving a shit about the other" feeling is mutual. I could not possibly care less. But the strange thing is that you think this gives some people the right to invade my personal time with unsolicited harassment.

It's people like you that keep minimum wage down, social security low, and the unemployment rate high!

Since you seem to be such a scholor of economics, why don't you inform me as to what I, personally, have done to effect any of those things. Also, I thought we were discussing telemarketers. Why do you feel the need to insert these ad hominems?

If you idiots would pull your heads out of your fucking gilt assholes, and actually vote for some of these affirmitive action/social security/minimum wage increase bills, you wouldn't have to pay so many fucking taxes, because the lower class would be able to support themselves, and not have to take shitty jobs as telemarketers!

"Evil rich, exalted poor." It's getting pretty old. Do you accept that a large reason that the poor stay poor is that they make bad choices (e.g. not get an education, not seek marketable skills, have multiple children that they can't afford to raise, spend money on beer, cigarettes, and cable TV, etc.)? Furthermore, you should know as well as I that the upper class is never going to see a tax cut because the lower classes will never have the government teat removed from their mouths. It simply buys too many votes that keep the big government cronies in power. You might also wish to share with me where in the Constitution the federal government has the right to dictate what employers should pay their employees.

Some of us don't get SHIT from our parents. Some of us get DEBT from our parents. That's what I got.

And what did you assume that my parents gave to me? Honestly I can't see how it matters in this discussion. We all lead hard lives.

Telemarketing jobs pay pretty damn well, up to $15 an hour, so when people get to choose between making $5.20 at jack in the box, coming home smelling like grease every night, and making $15 at a telemarketing firm, what the fuck do you think they're going to do? Say "oh, no, I'd have to interrupt people's dinner; I can't do that..."? If you think that, then get your head out of your ass, because people do NOT think that way.

Obviously I couldn't think that because it's pretty clear that I do, in fact, receive those repugnant telemarketing calls. Let me reiterate: I do not care about the lives of telemarketers or their issues. Nor do I have to care. Nor do I have to feel guilty if I don't. I'm responsible for me and my family and that's it. What I do care about is the fact that I am having my privacy invaded by some unethical person doing an unethical thing, and I react harshly to that.

Re:no

[Loundry]

Some people feel sorry for no one except maybe themselves, possibly because they're just plain mean sons of guns.

I didn't write that I didn't feel sorry for those people. I did write that I have no compassion for them. And I don't feel bad about not having any compassion for them. I have compassion for my family, my friends, and myself, and for strangers which, in particular times, need my compassion. I reserve the right to judge which strangers are worthy of my compassion. Guess what? Everyone does this. I'm no different from anyone else. My guess is that you want to condemn me for not having compassion for the people that you want me to have compassion for.

I feel sorry for everyone, because we're all going to die pretty soon.

What's so bad about dying in and of itself? Death is a blessing to some people. And "pretty soon" is relative, of course. Some insects have a lifespan of one day.

Whatever.

You feel the need to spout your opinion on slashdot and insert the implication that I am "mean." Then you end your diatribe with "whatever." Why on earth would you do that? Do you mean what you write? Do you care if anyone reads it? I wonder if you post statements on /. just because you have nothing better to do.

Re:"Cramming" is a big problem too

[Howie]

Well, I left that bit out :-)

BTInternet Free Internet isn't strictly speaking a scam, but it's not the hot party that I expected.

Re:"Cramming" is a big problem too

[Howie]

"Belgian Telecom (http://www.bt.com.) "

Did you even look at this link? It's BRITISH TELECOM you fool. Please let us all know what bastion of journalism your mom works for...

Tricked

[kabloie]

I switched from AT&T because of a disagreement with a bill. But that's another story.

I called MCI and signed up with them. An intermediate agency called me one night and asked if I really wanted to switch my long distance. I said yes.

So I get a letter: "Welcome to Sprint!"

Now, what I suspect is that Sprint saw a customer had dropped AT&T, called me and asked if I was ready to switch to them, and figured that I wouldn't remember who I had switched to. Maybe. Who knows? But I had to pay another 5 bucks to get MCI and called PacBell to lock MCI in. Only I can make these changes now.

Anyway, dat's my story!

-kabloie

Re:Tricked - NumbNuts

[kabloie]

They have different calling plans.
MCI-Worldcom != Sprint

www.wcom.com
www.sprint.com

look for yourself, dickweeeed

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[Ares]

Depends on the state. AFAIK (IANAL) it is legal in Minnesota, so long as at least one party besides yourself has knowledge of it. Doesn't necessarily need to be the person on the other end of the line, though. Talk to a lawyer before trying to admit evidence in a court.

Re:US West DSL vs AT&T

[Ares]

Really? I've got USW/ATT, and DSL, with USW as both the transport, and the ISP. I'm still on ATT residential LD. I've had it for a year and a half, now.

Re:Mediaone? NO WAY!

[howardjp]

STay away from RCN! I live in Maryland and it took them over a month and ten missed deliveries to get me a land line. To their credit, they did offer to pay my cell phone bill for the down time.

Dorm livin'

[cluening]

Dude, I have the same telemarketing problem sometimes. The only problem is... I live in a dorm. My only choice of long distance carrier is my university. But they still call sometimes, wondering if I want this or that long distance service, telling me all about how good theirs is in comparisson to what I am currently using. When I tell them I don't even use a long distance service (why bother when I can email people? :) ), they sound confused and tell be about how good their is some more. When they ask if I want to switch and I tell them I am a college student living in a dorm, they get the picture and hang up. Then half the time I hear my neighbor's phone number ring...

Re:Dorm livin'

[Yhcrana]

No no no no, you should accept the service and then see if you can get the university to pay for it.... :)

Yhcrana

Re:Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[Zagadka]

The telemarketer heard this, and after she finished her script, she called me an unprintable name!!

She called you the artist formerly known as Prince?

For the sake of everyone...

[RichDice]

... who doesn't have a clue what either "slamming" or "cramming" is (I'm guessing, most people outside of the USA), could someone please fill us in?

Cheers,
Richard

Switch to IP telephony

[eaglemoon]

I have now basically stopped using LD services from the big telcos. I have Mediaone cable modem and am happily making FREE LD calls all over North America and fairly reasonable charges for overseas. The quality is good enough and I can leverage my monthly $40 payments to the ISP.

Do your part in helping bankrupt the big telcos - got IP telephony

Re:Switch to IP telephony

[macrohard0]

Do you happen to know a way to do that on Linux?

Re:Switch to IP telephony

[gammatron]

Do your part in helping bankrupt the big telcos - got IP telephony

Hah! That's not going to do anything, since all of the big telcos are internet providers in one way or another. In fact, AT&T owns your cable company, MediaOne. They'll get your money one way or the other.
--

getting rid of telemarketers

[Turnbull]

go to junkbusters.com -- they tell you what to say to get them to stop calling you. Coincidentally, I had to do this just today with AT&T. Unfortunately, they woudlnt' do it without my name and address, and they said it takes 60 days for them to process it, so i may get mroe calls from them in the mean time. does anyone know what the legal status of those annoying criteria are?

Re:getting rid of telemarketers

[Tackhead]

A user writes: > [AT&T] woudlnt' [put me on their do-not-call list]
> without my name and address, and they said it takes 60 days for them to process it,

The telemarketer is lying. (Marketers. Lying is in the genes.) The TCPA - the federal law regulating telemarketers - is very explicit about this. They must add you immediately, and after you say "Place this number on your firm's do-not-call list", any calls that any telemarketer gives you on behalf of AT&T allow you to collect $500 from AT&T in court.

Sue the fux0rs.

"poor guy"?

[Kozz]

Come on. I don't buy it. If you can get your foot in the door doing telemarketing, there are other opportunities, too. How much is "very very very little"? I don't feel sorry for these people who make a living this way. By accepting the job as a telemarketer, only the most ignorant aren't aware that they will deal with angry consumers who won't want to be bothered, and they've made a conscious decision to accept that by performing this job.

The only true way to stop telemarketing is to make it financially unfeasible for the company. REFUSE to buy anything that anyone tries to sell you over the phone. When the profits from these activities drop enough, this marketing method would surely be abandonded.


Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Re:"poor guy"?

[RobNich]

When I was in High School (4 years ago), I was at $5.25/hr. By the time I left, I was making 6.25 and was grateful as hell about it.
The fired me for cleaning the crap out of keyboards while I talked and dialed (I had the most calls/hr in the group). Yeah, I'd pull of a couple of keytops and clean underneath. I knew where all of the keys where.
Last year I was thinking about working for the company that works on their phones (they wanted me bad). I heard their network administrator and programmer left a couple of weeks after me (unrelated, I'm sure).

Re:Acronym Karma Whore

[Kozz]

That's funny. Before I used this sig, I was using yours. No shit! LOL


Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

Re:Don't blame the telemarketers

[hedley]

Need to have a box answer the phone when there is no caller ID and say "I'm sorry, this number does not accept calls from blocked callers".

Now if we could just work a micropayment scheme in like what was proposed by Eric Allman for Spam we will be all set.

Actually Andy Rooney suggested that on 60minutes. "Mr Rooney charges X$ for unsolicited calls".

I like that a lot!!!

Hedley

Informative?

[llywrch]

When I looked at this post, it was rated ``5, Informative" (although another quick peek has shown it has dropped to ``4"). Unless you practice a form of anal hygene I'd rather not know about, this post doesn't provide any information that can't be found elsewhere in this discussion.

Not to say that I don't agree with this rant. (let's give the man a wire brush & a map to the local telemarketer's call center -- then deny all knowledge of this.) But there are other options to scoring a post positively beyond ``Informative."

Furrfu!

Geoff

A better strategy

[Nyerp]

Next time, try saying "Please state your name." and THEN "This call is in violation of the TCPA" :)

Paying ATT to stay away?

[battjt]

It seems absurd that the phone companies encourage businesses to telemarket, then sell services to the consumers to block telemarketers.

Joe

Re:Paying ATT to stay away?

[elgardo]

Actually, the "anonymous call block" only works against normal people who try to make an anonymous call. So you can protect yourself from ordinary people who want to call you anonymously, but you can't protect yourself from telemarketers. Similarly, the "anonymous call" also works only when calling ordinary people. If you call a large corporation, using the "anonymous call" feature, they will still be able to get your phone number and know who you are. In other words, the "anonymous call block" only blocks the people you want to let through (such as relatives calling from overseas; these numbers often show up as "unknown" because they don't transfer to the North American phone system. Same goes for some cell phone carriers), and "anonymous call" does not keep you anonymous when calling the people you don't want to know who you are. No, what I need to do is hook a tape recorder up to the phone and record all the telemarketing calls, make fun of them, and put them all out on mp3.com. Did I mention that I own corporate-abuse.com? This gives me the opportunity to answer the phone with "corporate-abuse.com, how may I address your call?" and not lie. :^)

Re:The sad thing

[TDO]

On a related thing to your story. My friend worked for a telemarketer that did long distance phone service, the company name was "Long Distance" so that made people think that they still had AT&T or whatever. Their speaches also made it sound like they were somehow part of the person's current long distance carrier. It was all very ugly, and he quit 'cause he felt he was lieing to people.

---

Stopping Nasty Business Practices.

[chris_sawtell]

The most sucessful method I have had so far is to send a registered personal recorded delivery open post-card to the absolutly top wheel in the organization at his home address. Don't use modern conveniences like e-mail or even a typewriter. A hand-written and addresed post-card. Be excessively polite, yet totally firm in expressing your wish that his company stop the business practice that gets up your nose. This usually stops the crap dead in its tracks, because the nasty practices are usually thought up by incompetent minions in the lower bowels of the company.

Slammin..

[ArthurDent]

We got our regional toll slammed by MCI when we moved. My wife told them specifically that we were quite happy with our plan from Bell Atlantic and they took it anyway and we got double charged. (Bell Atl for the calling plan and MCI for all the calls) We were using MCI for long distance before and still are.

Anyway, we went thru some gyration with Bell Atl that allowed us to lock in our local service and long distance service so that it can't be changed by anyone but us.. Imagine that! That was about 4 months ago.

All telephone company executives should be beat with a stick continuously until their companies stop doing this, IMHO.

Ben

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[BJH]

I think the word you're looking for is bona fide.

Third Party Verification and PIC Codes

[W. Justice Black]

For personal LD, the provider is also required to provide an independent third party online to verify that you really wanted to do this (I believe this is an FCC thing). I used to work for a company that had a bank of people that did this for AT&T.

The process:

1. You talk to the telemarketer.
2. If you agree, the TM conferences in the third party (or has the third party contact you later, or...).
3. The third party verifies that you do want to switch long distance carriers (this part is usually tightly scripted and pretty obvious once you know what they're doing).

When I switched to Sprint, everything went great until this step. For some reason we got a half-dozen verify calls before I finally got disgusted and bitched out a supervisor. I guess that's the opposite of slamming... :-)

Since working for my current company, we've been slammed on a couple of our lines, as well. It isn't fun for businesses, either, we just have more resources to throw at the problem.

WRT to PIC codes: The 10-10 numbers you see advertised are actually the PIC codes for the carrier (10-10-288 is AT&T, 10-10-222 and 10-10-555 are MCI, etc.). If you find out what PIC code you should be using for your carrier, you can always override the default by using it before dialing the number (hence the reason this became a business in itself). If you get slammed and want to make sure they don't get any additional cash in the interim (above and beyond monthly fees), this is the way to go until you get things resolved.

If you know your PIC code, you can also tell your local telco to switch them directly without involving the LD carrier, which is sometimes faster than getting a LD rep to do it for you. YMMV.

God I hope you're being facetious.

[FallLine]

If not, please provide a link or something.

Re:The sad thing

[Quikah]

Actually the "Do Not Call List" must be maintained indefinitely. They are allowed to call once every 12 months as an error. More restrictions can be viewed here.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[freq]

I just downloaded this little program and it fsckin' rocks! You can easily log all your telemarketing calls, and cite the specific laws from the federal regulations. Highly recommended!

Download it here

Screw a landline

[Nickbot]

I've given up on landline carriers.. Here's what happened..

I rarely call long distance.. (after all, there's the internet) I make 3 long distance calls, totaling less than 8 minutes.. I get the bill, with all the umpteen BS service charges, AT&T charges me $12.. $12 for 8 minutes worth of calls! That's nearly porno rates! And my brother didn't even talk dirty to me!

So, in order to keep this from happening again, I call up my phone company (Southwestern Bell) I tell them that I no longer want _any_ long distance service.. she says "ok, is this a modem line or something?" I say no, I just have no use for long distance.. she says "no problem, we'll have that taken off your bill".. "but of course there will be a monthly charge of $1 for not having long distance"

-What-the-@#$%?!-

That's right, I have to _pay_ to _not_have_ something.. figure that one out..

Luckily, at that moment I have a stunning realization.. my cell phone costs me $40 a month. My landline costs me $50 a month. I have 100mb access through my apartment complex. Why do I even need a landline?

So I tell her "actually, forget it.. don't take off long distance, just cancel my service completely".. aaah, the stunned silence she answers with is bliss..

But there's still the matter of $12 I owe to AT&T.. with this I have a little fun, include a letter with my bill, _staple_ the check to it (with a memo that says "for erotic massage from [whoever the CEO of AT&T is, I forget]") the letter basically asks the director of the billing department how he explains to his children that daddy has no soul, as he charges people money to _not_have_ a service.. it is accompanied by a crayon drawing of the director with a hole where his soul should be..

The best part.. I apparently overpaid by $.13.. to date AT&T has sent me 6 letters notifying I have a balance of $-0.13.. I hope they keep sending them, till the postage equals $12..

Re:Screw a landline

[/dev/trash]

Actually a recent FCC ruling eliminated the fee for not having a long distance company.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[rark]

bah. sales people always lie (well, not *always* but it's much safer to assume they are than to assume they aren't) -- that's not nearly on the same level of 'bad' as slamming

Re:File a Complaint

[igjeff]

The FCC would be *very* interested in hearing about this incident.

Also, don't bother with the state AG, go for the state Utilities Commision. They are the state regulatory body over telco's and they generally take a *VERY* dim view of slamming. Here in Kentucky, slamming reports get looked into *very* aggresively.

Jeff

Re:I've been Slammed, too.

[Force]

AT&T even slams in Canada (or did a couple of years ago). A door-to-door slime^H^H^H^H^Hmarketer came to our door asking my wife if she would like to switch. After repeated and emphatic "No"s, he eventually left. I guess he decided that his quota for the day/month/week wasn't met, because he switched us anyways. Despite having some form on his little clipboard that we should have had to sign, stating that we wanted to switch. Nope, he just forged a signature.

We got a call a couple of weeks later from (then) BCTel (now Telus) asking us why we switched and wouldn't we please come back. After resetting our long distance to BCTel, we also had a lock put on our line. The rep confided that there were quite a few incidents of AT&T in particular having slammed people (at that time).

I don't know if slamming is still going on now, or if my lock on my line is holding. I'm still pleased to let my long distance charges subsidize my local line.

Small Claims Court won't work...telemarketers suck

[jbayes]

...at least, not for most telemarketers.

Most of them operate from out of state. (The one that was bugging me was Merrick Bank, out of Utah. (I'm in California.)) I was suing for $3000 for multiple violations of the (Federal) TCPA. In order to sue them, you have to serve them, and there's no legal way to serve an out-of-state company with a small-claims suit.

I talked to a lawyer, and he said that really all I could do was file a claim in Federal court. This would involve heavy-duty lawyer's fees, and basically wouldn't be worth the time.

As far as the "they're only doing their job" argument...I don't buy it. Car thieves are "only doing their job" too...that doesn't mean I'm not happy to see them go to jail. Break out the wire brush. :)

--joe

Re:At least you didn't have to shell out $500!

[jawad]

I believe the Beastie Boys said, "Like Ma Bell, I got the ill communication."

Write the Mass. AG's Office

[mssymrvn]

At the very least, write to them letting them know your concern. Do you have the option for RCN? In Somerville you can choose both if you want - and get all services. I don't know if they're any better, but at least they aren't Verizon or AT&T. I've been waiting for the lazy arses at Verizon to qual my line for DSL so Covad can come in. But who knows when that'll be finished. I was thinking about getting MediaOne in the meantime but after this mess, I think I'll look into other options.

Slamming is illegal regardless of the transmission media (coax or twisted pair, etc.). I say screw AT&T to the wall.

Re:Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[Fizgig]

A telemarketer called me last week. I asked to be put on the don't call list. Apparently she had to go through this huge script when you ask to be put on that list (it took about 45 seconds). My girlfriend was in the room and couldn't understand why I hadn't hung up yet and started giggling very loudly. The telemarketer heard this, and after she finished her script, she called me an unprintable name!! Makes me wish I had paid attention to the phone numbers and reference numbers she had been listing throughout the 30 seconds.

Nice Ad!

[itsjpr]

What a great ad campaign! This is really the future, isn't it? Man! There are some folks at MCI that are just fucking in tune with their market. How much did ya get paid Hemos?

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[Maxwell_E]

What's funny about that is that the Ameritech telemarketers hawking this fantastic service don't show up on caller-id here in Chicago...

Re:Tricked - NumbNuts

[Ripp]

Ever here of Sprint-MCI???

Yes, Fredo, they are the same company....

Re:technology is THE answer

[Ripp]

Look for CID from www.tummy.com

A really simple caller ID app with a net-able X-client. It'll log names/numbers to a file for later use or I assume you could probably pipe it to something....

HTH

Re:Thought you could tell the phone company....

[the_Librarian]

You can, but there are plenty of games to be played to get around that, if you happen to be the local phone provider. If you move within a city and are eligible to keep the same phone number, the most popular trick involves the local carrier pretending that it is necessary to delete/deactivate your old account & number to issue you a new account and _the same number_ that is now no longer PIC restricted. Surprise! You now have LD through whoever your local carrier is in bed with. I had this done to me by Southwestern Bell, now that they're in the LD market in Texas. I managed to get AT&T mad enough about it that AT&T somehow got it fixed for me, but the AT&T people told me it's happened a fair bit. Anyone ever do things honestly today? Sorry, that was an oxymoron...

Same AT&T trouble with Verizon

[domsol]

Last month I had the same experience, without the slamming -- I'm a Verizon customer (boo, hiss) with MCI Worldcom toll and long distance service.

Note: I have an unlisted number, and filled out the paperwork 9 years ago per the CPNI below, so telemarketers who use automatic dialers must get the "forced exclude list" from Verizon. Otherwise, they're up for the willful disregard penalty of $1500/call.

AT&T called me (third time in 3 years), and asked for me by name. I asked the dude calling how he'd gotten my #. He refused to answer. I demanded to be added to the "Do Not Call" list, which I was supposed to be on already. He said, "You have to do that with your local phone company." "I did that 9 years ago; you're the only ones repeatedly violating it. Please connect me to your supervisor." "No." We went a couple more rounds, and I finished off with, "I hope this call is being recorded; you and AT&T are in *BIG* trouble, man!"

I immediately dialed up Verizon and was on nearly-infinite hold (during the strike). The rep confirmed that I was on the list, noted the two companies who I'd complained about in the past (Boston Globe and AT&T), and said, "Well, whenever the strike is over, we'll get on their cases about it." I reported to her the time of the call; Verizon can pull the logs and see who exactly called me.

I did try calling the FCC, but they don't take phone call complaints (try it yourself, it's an adventure!).

Unfortunately, Hemos is an AT&T local customer. So believe it or not, that's who his first line of defense is. Oops.

Second is MA Department of Telecommunications and Energy, Telecommunications Division (in the blue pages of the Boston phone book). They hate these guys too.

Lastly is in writing to the FCC. Good luck.

The regs read (courtesy of Bell Atlantic-that-was):

Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI)
Customer Proprietary Network Information (CPNI) consists of details of your telephone service and billing information. Under Federal Communications Commission rules, Bell Atlantic, its affiliates, and its agents must obtain your approval to use your CPNI for marketing purposes. You can let us know of your approval or disapproval by calling your business office, or by signing and returning an authorization form we will send to you. Your decision will have no effect on the service you receive from us.

HtH,
--jas

Re:They can often do worse.

[The_Monk]

The ISP I worked for had a similar problem. We had 2 PRI ISDN lines for our 56k dialup rack, but due to an error in the order the 2nd one wasn't talking to our equipment. After talking to a few sales and circuits people at PacHell who said it would be easier to disconnect the line, refund us, then reinstall it with the right line coding. So my boss (the owner,) put in a call to disconnect the 2nd PRI...only their paperwork showed that he approved disconnecting *both* lines. After both of us being on the phone for hours we found the error. PacHell didn't care our dialup was f*cked up, they said that the equipment had already been moved at the CO and the only way to get any lines in is to put in an order and wait 6 weeks. After discussing it together for most of a day we folded our customers into another ISP and now my boss hosts a small web hosting company out of his home covering what contracts we had. Damn shame. PacHell didn't care what they were doing or how it would effect us; and this wasn't the first time they had put us in a
bind.

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[Sehnsucht]

Well that way they won't need lists. Just call every number and see if they hit the manager! ;)

How to ca$h AT&T "Switch service" checks

[paul7e]

1) IF you have a second line for your modeming...

2) CHANGE the phone number on the AT&T "switch by cashing this" check to your SECOND line (which is a line you are legally responsible for, so it fits what the check says)

3) ENDORSE and cash the check.

4) ENJOY the money.

You see, you really do mean that they should switch your second line to AT&T. Honest!

Sadly, it seems you CAN'T switch your second line to a different long distance service from your primary one. So, AT&T puts the request into the system, and the system rejects it. But when you endorsed, you meant exactly what the endorsement text says, that you were trying to switch the phone number on the front of the check to their service. So sorry it didnt' work that way, AT&T, and thanks for the money.

paul

Re:How to ca$h AT&T "Switch service" checks

[87C751]

Sadly, it seems you CAN'T switch your second line to a different long distance service from your primary one.

That must be a local option thing. I have two lines: the primary line is on MCI LD, and the 'puter line is on Sprint. I'm in Minnesota, but had a similar situation in Michigan a couple of years ago.

It does get entertaining sometimes. The local telco has been known to get really confused. It's also handy for LD roulette, since I never make LD calls on the modem line. So when the checks come in, I cash them and switch the modem line. Then when the next check comes in...

Re:I've been Slammed, too.

[SpacePunk]

I've been slammed also, and it took two weeks to get my old carrier back. My phone had a PIC or lock or something on it, and I finally had to make it clear to the LD carrier that slammed me, and my local company that if it wasn't resolved NOW that the next person they'll be talking too would be a lawyer. After that it took no less than five minutes to get it fixed.

I had it the other way around

[ContraB]

Well, Hemos, the exact opposite thing happened to you as to me-- I used to have local service in E. Pennsylvania from Bell Atlantic. We in my house signed up for AT&T, and MCI slammed me, twice! It was really really annoying, though we at least figured it out before we owed them too much money for long distance. After that, we found out about "locking" your long distance provider. Soooo, why isn't that the -default- way of doing it???

Personally, I've always felt that MCI is the slimier company to deal with, partly because of the way they slammed me, but also with their whole "friends and family" scam, er, "long distance plan". You know, the one where you get a cheaper rate if you have "friends and family" and so does the person you're calling, too. Works like this: you sign up for it, give names/numbers of friends and family, they call you up and pressure you to switch. Whatever! Load of crap... Encouraging people to hand over their friends' privacy in return for a measly $0.03/min (or whatever) savings...

Anyway, welcome to the Boston area Hemos. Glad you like it, but don't you find it ridiculously expensive around here? That's about 2/3 the reason I plan on leaving in the next few months...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

but what about 1-800-COL-ATT ?

[cpeterso]

(some people are more illiterate than others)

Re:but what about 1-800-COL-ATT ?

[aozilla]

some are illiterate, others just can't count :)

Re:but what about 1-800-COL-ATT ?

[Chris Mattern]

Well, you'd probably be wondering why the
phone's not ringing while the phone is
waiting for you dial the last digit...

Chris Mattern

Re:use a cell phone...

[Mike A.]

They do know - there are blocks of phone numbers specifically allocated to carriers for cell phones. And the telemarketers also know that it's illegal to solicit to a cellphone number.

--

Try a "pick freeze"

[desertfool]

I had to do this when Qwest slammed me (from AT&T) so that they must get you on the line with the local carrier in order to change the line. USWorst provides this for free, and I have had no troubles since.

Of course, they were just bought by Qwest, and I am assuming that they will do it again.

Re:Thr *real* per minute costs of long distance=$0

[Myxx]

And what is even funnier is that MCI owns almost ALL the 10-10 companies. They own 10-10-220 and a couple more. You used to be able to see their name really tiny down below, but I think a recent law has made it so that they have to be more open about the fact that it is them. I cannot find the reference article though.

Still, I have an even better angle to add. I used to do IS work for a large telecom company *coughberniecough* and the slamming, while spoken from the left side of the mouth, was drilled as illegal, it was only lightly tapped from the right side. There is nothing in the system stopping one of these telemarketing weasels from simply getting a friend to vouch for being the one authorized to switch you over to their LD. It happens all the time and by the time you find out the marketing rep has already gotten their commission. It is a sad reality that here in Atlanta they employ any Joe who will take the bus up into the extreme suburbs to the shiny facility that is 10 minutes from the director's home to sell LD at any cost. Now I liked the Directory. He was a nice enough guy, but the LD industry has become so competitive that his profits slipped and slipped. The same kind of money is not being made any more which is why these companies are trying to re-form into the old mega-companies.

So, more than likely it was not "the company" but some rep who needed the $50 or $100 commission of getting your sale. Still the company, I know, but it takes it more off the company and makes it more like someone you could blame. It was most likely one of those reps who spoke to you at one point.

Now, go give them hell and get one of those checks they like to give out.

Myxx

----------

Re:Don't blame the telemarketers

[joekool]

this is a quote from the movie "clerks"---in the original it is said in response to the clerk saying that he only sells cigarettes because it's his job--so really what he is saying is that it is silly to say bad things about people who sell cigs, or telemarket....or at least that was the point in the movie

got to love Kevin Smith!

I don't know exactly how to say this but:

[Benjamin Shniper]

Slashdot Sucks!

Every five seconds some new legal situation comes up and 50 IANAL (I am not a lawyer) folks say how terrible it is that we can't do something about it.

Get a lawyer on staff, you guys, and for that matter, consult him on how to fine the phone companies for slamming you.

God, if I hear one more clueless article about "how does the law work again? X did Y which I think was illegal but I'd rather bitch and moan about it." I swear I'll...uh.. I'll... I suppose I'll bitch and moan about it more!

-Ben

Re:I don't know exactly how to say this but:

[Richthofen]

Hear Hear! finally, someone with some brains!

Josh

Re:"Al Gore is 60.5% in love with slashdot.org!

[Telamon]

Forget all these political and open soruce names, here' what's really important:

Al Gore is only 49% in love with Natalie Portman!!!

Luckily he's 86% in love with Sarah Michelle Gellar so all is not lost. :-)

Re:I've been Slammed, too.

[kennylives]

I quickly called Bell South and Qwest and got myself switched back to the way I had it before, then put a lock on my line. The lock, which everyone should have (and should be the default) prevents your LD carrier from being changed unless you call your local carrier and tell them it is ok.

I had a similar situation a number of years ago. What really bugs me is that not only is the lock not the default, but the local carrier doesn't tell you about it unless you get slammed @ least once (that's all it took for me... I was quite angry about the situation).

Another dirty secret that I discovered at the same time is that if you're paying for an unpublished number (another thing that should be default and gratis), that doesn't include the LD carriers (and perhaps others), unless you specifically tell the local carrier otherwise.

So, when I moved into the place I'm in now, on a different local carrier, I ran down the laundry list of features I wanted, included these two (locks and listings), and they didn't even flinch (I really like my local carrier; they're considerably less evil than the big Bell systems). It's been years since I've been solicted to change my LD carrier, much less slammed.

US Worst

[cjsteele]

...I too recently moved; setup utilities, etc. Setup telephone with only option available. At install time, they asked if I wanted long distance, not liking US Worst for LD, I said no. They signed me up for their long distance at a PREMIUM rate of $0.50/minute, anyway! I called to setup LD with another company, and they couldn't set me up, 'cause US Worst was blocking them. I was stuck for a month and a half with US Worst at $0.50/minute!

I hate profiteering gluttons!
-C

Re:True story

[powerlord]

geee. you'd think they need something like a Certificate of Death for that.

True story

[powerlord]

I recently changed my Long Distance carrier from AT&T to Quest (they've done great and cut my bill by 2/3rds).

As part of the 'sign-up' process they have to have a third party verify all of your information and that you really want to switch.

I was totally serious as call-handler at the third-party form (I forget which) asked me all of their questions, and then he got to 'Why are you switching?'

To which I replied "I'm sick and tired of being screwed by AT&T".

My response caught him very off-gaurd and he spent the better part of 30 seconds trying to get through the rest of the questions as his uncontrolled chuckles kept interfering. Problem was, his boss wouldn't apreciate him laughing while taking a call, so he tried to keep a straight face (phone voice?). I think it took him about four tries to make it through the next question :)

Best chuckle I've had since I told a telemarketer that called looking for me that I was dead.

Re:How rich are you, -Ben?

[BeanThere]

"Private citizens should not have to retain attorneys to compel corporations to comply with the law!"

I fully agree. These days it seems the outcome of a court case often seems to boil down to who could afford the most expensive lawyer. That isn't a real justice system.

Re:Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[Teach]

They suggest sending your info to the Direct Marketing Association indicating you don't want calls from member companies. I remain skeptical of this...

I can vouch for it. I sent letters to the DMA and to the several big address list resellers (Axciom, et al) as per Junkbusters' instructions. I now receive no snail-mail solicitations except the circulars and coupons and such which are put in by the postman himself.

I also started working through the Anti-Telemarketing Script every time I received a telemarketing call. Doing this scrupulously, combined with the letter to the DMA worked. My last such call was 12:35pm, Saturday, 2 Oct 1999.

Though since I got CallerID about a month back, I notice I get about one "OUT OF AREA" call a day while I'm work. I can't complain.

It may be helpful to note for those having telemarketers hang up on them that you should get their name before you otherwise tip your hand. From the Anti-Telemarketing Script, my series of questions is basically this:

• "Can I get your full name please?"
• "What company are you calling for?"
• "Can you give me a number where I can reach that company?"
  then, pop the question...
• "Does [company] keep a list of numbers they've been asked not to call?" (the answer to this must be "yes")
• "I'd like you to put my name on that list; can you take care of that now?"

Re:Consumers vs Corporates

[MoH]

Ameritech bites I was moving and I ordered a phone line for the new place two weeks before I moved and it was just turned on yesterday. That was a span of almost six weeks. They missed to previous hookup dates and they never could give me a satisfactory answer as to why it was taking so long. You can't get local phone service from any other company where I live so I was just screwed. These local phone service monopolies should be broken up.

Get Caller ID

[malikcoates]

The solution to all slamming and telemarketting is to get caller-id. Whenever it doesn't show a call from number DONT ANSWER. If it's important they will leave a message. If not they should turn off the caller-id block if they expect you to answer.

You can stop most unwanted calls

[victim]

The telemarketers don't want to waste time calling hostile consumers. You can register to be voluntarily removed from the lists. It isn't binding and the lower forms of telemarketing scum still call, but my experience and that of others I know who have used it is that it will cut the calls by a factor of 5 or so.

There is a form at http://www.the-dma.org/consumers/tps-sht.html which you have to fill out (on multilated dead trees) and mail to them.

Re:You can stop most unwanted calls

[dsl]

Here in Tennessee, we have a binding opt-out list maintained by the state. It's great, I've only gotten four calls since they started it in July, and three of those were just messages on my machine begging me to renew my home warranty (which, since that's expired, I think puts them in a gray area as regards 'established business relationship').

Re:You can stop most unwanted calls

[Tackhead]

> [The DMA's "Telephone Preference Service" opt-out]
> isn't binding [but it is effective]

Although what you say is true, I point out that you're still required to jump through a lot of hoops because the DMA managed to buy enough Congresscritters to make telephone harassment (they call it marketing, I call it harassment. Fuck 'em.) legal.

It's better than nothing, but the ideal solution would be legislation to ban the practice altogether. Regrettably, one such measure for California failed to gather enough signatures for the November election. Voter Revolt may choose to try again in 2002.

> and the lower forms of telemarketing scum still call,

..."lower forms of telemarketing scum"? Not only do you repeat yourself, but the ring around my bathtub is deeply offended ;-)

Re:Slamming

[starvo]

SprintPCS did the same thing to me also.
Except, I got a call.. and not a letter.

I was sorta irked, because when i signed up for my PCS Portable phone thing, I specifically had to state to the phone operator about 3 times, "No I don't want sprint LD service on my home phone line"

Yet they still called up, asking when they should make the switch.

Which leads me to.. If their PCS rate are soo good.. (they are to me, vs Nextel.. Whom I had previous).. why in the heck are their landline LD rate still hovering at .08cents a minute?

Bah.. Gimme Qwest.. I think they are .05 a minute, with only a 5 buck fee.

Slamming SUX! But you can avoid it ....

[Gordo Toor]

This happened to me in Newark, DE. I was staying in the house of an older couple while I was attending the Univeristy of Delaware, and had a phone line ran to my room. Bell Atlantic was my local carrier, and AT&T was my long distance carrier. After a few months, all of a sudden my long distance carrier was a company by the name of LCI, and I was acruing fees from this carrier. I called the LCI phone number on my bill only to find out they didn't exist any longer. After some research, I found Qwest had acquired LCI. Qwest readily admitted I had been slammed, credited me the fees, and had my local carrier, BA, switch my long distance service back to AT&T.

The slamming happens behind your back. A long distance carrier can have your local carrier switch your long distance carrier on your behalf, supposedly with notification of your consent. Notice that your consent doesn't have to go to your local carrier. However, you can explicitly ask your local carrier to not allow this, instead requiring your consent on any account chages go to the local carrier. BA & Qwest were both very helpful. If your carriers aren't too helpful, it's your right, and responsibility, to report the incident to the FTC. (Gotta love online complaint forms!)

Shortly after my ordeal was over, I moved into a place of my own, abandoned the idea of land-line telephone service, and only use the copper pair for my DSL :)
--
I wrote the play & still own the script ...

Re:Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[barole]

Various people have posted about the no-call list. I went through this recently with ATT (they were also calling me at least once a day, sometimes more often).

I told them it was illegal for them to call me after I had asked to be placed on their no-call list. They told me that by law they have 60 days to comply. Maybe I was reading too much into it, but I could swear there was a smirk in their voice when they told me that.

I've got a better solution

[macdaddy]

I over did it in my bill paying last month and didn't have enough $$ to pay the SouthWestern Bell for my phone service and one other important utility (that company was nice enough to extended my deadline two weeks until my next pay check--I owe them beer). SWB ended up turning off my phone. I have a cable modem so it's not really impacting my lifestyle. It is so amazingly nice not to come home every night to 5 messages for someone I've never heard of, a couple generic sales pitches, and my mother wondering why I haven't called since the night before (why? still? I'm not 2!). Then I'd still have a couple of sales calls that night during super of a pron video (I usually leave the tape running if I answer the call."Oh oh baby. It's soo big. That's stick it in my..."). It has been off for 2 weeks now and I get paid this coming Friday (not today). You know, I don't really know if I actually want to turn it back on. :-)

Illegal!

[Klaymor]

Yes slamming is illegal and there are several law suits and civil suits pending against both large and small carriers. Definitly talk to your AG's office they might have an open case pending.

Slamming Sux

[sabshire]

Yeah, I have been slammed before, and by none other than AT&T. After they did this to me, and I got charged for their long distance instead of my long distance, I made a call to AT&T. Well, after getting nowhere with the support person, I asked for the supervisor. When I finally got her on the line, I laid into her with ruthless abandon. After about 30 minutes or more of us going back and forth, she relented, knocked off the calls down to MCI's rate, and told me they would would never offer me service over the phone. guess what? They haven't! It has been a wonderful 1 1/2 to 2 years now since that day, and I have not been hassled by them, or anyone else for that matter.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[bozz]

Any company caught slamming in Massachusetts gets automatically fined $15E3 (or 15E2, I can't remember). My wife is a telecommunications policy/law/economics consultant and related this tidbit to me once. I would definetly contact the AG's office.

Sure fire -- hit 'em where it hurts...

[ragnarsedai]

Listen attentively for a few moments, then ask them to hold a moment -- you'll ``be right back.''

Put down the phone. Leave it.

Time wasted listening to your carpet decay is time they can't spend harassing you or others. Sure, you'll get future calls, but it's kinda fun to bite into their cold-calling productivity.

AT&T? MCI slammed me!!!

[vladkrupin]

Second that... MCI switched me w/out bothering to ask me if I wanted to get switched. My rates on calls to Russia suddenly became 5-6 times higher than the special promotion I had (for a limited time) from AT&T - almost $3 a minute! As a result, I got an astronomical phone bill, and they forced me to pay it. Anybody knows how to deal with a company like that? It is pure extortion of money!
------------------------------------------ -------

you should try managing LD on a Corporate level

[swestcott]

Being the person who know about things electronic some how I was put in charge of the phone systems here and told to get a better rate on our long distance for our call center

I get the better rate and began the process of switching and was told ever thing was OK only to get a bill later in the month form both companies when I called to follow up I was told that World com would not release our numbers to the new carrier because we had what they called a UBR (unsatisfactory Business relationship) because we still had an out standing balance after explaining we would have balance until the switch was made as the phones where going to be used during the switch after much pleading I found out that they had a two week "window" after the bill was paid and they would release the numbers in that window if the order was place by the new carrier then WHAT!! So I tried to get the timing right so our order was placed in the window needles to say it has been 4 months and all the number still have not been switched yet

This seems like a scam to me but we are not big enough to make blip an any ones customer service screen they could care less we need our LD and they know it if we don't pay we lose our 800 numbers

How funny, MCI slammed me....

[Tmarie]

It is illegal. I checked the third time I had to get my long distance switched back.
The problem is that the fines are a pittance when you consider the amount of money they generate from lines that have been slammed.

Re:Don't blame the telemarketers

[Monte]

Need to have a box answer the phone when there is no caller ID and say "I'm sorry, this number does not accept calls from blocked callers".

Such a beast exists; I have one. Bought it at Radio Shack 3 or 4 years ago. I couldn't find it on their website or I'd give you a URL, but maybe they still sell it at their stores.

You can have the box block certain numbers, also it can block non-ID'd numbers. When someone calls on the block list a little digital voice tells them that you don't accept calls from their number and it hangs up - you hear one ring, and that's it.

I'm sure Rat Shack isn't the only supplier of such things...

What I'd really love is something that would allow me to record my own "F-off" message!

Big Business customer (dis)service

[jeeves]

It takes a lot of persistence and determination to deal with a Big Business on customer service. It recently took me 7 weeks to get Toshiba to repair a new laptop. If this if this is an example of our 21st Century service economy, we're doomed.

-D

The line that works for me

[Steve G Swine]

When someone calls me asking if they can switch my long-distance service, I tell them that I do not have phone service.

I assert this more strongly if they point out the inherent logical difficulty with that. I even got one guy to ask "Then how am I talking to you?" to which I responded "I Have No Idea."

Done well, it locks them up completely, and is loads of fun.

how to solve it

[weeble]

When they call, say that you are too busy at present and can you have the telemarketer's home number and you will call them back when you are free.

They generally respond that they cannot take calls at home.

Tell them that you fully understand how they feel so stop calling me at home.

Either that or invoice them for time spent talking to them. I would suggest starting at about $600 per hour.

Once you have invoiced by registered post them once with terms and conditions that stipulate that the company agrees to pay at your rate; should they call again you call legally enforce payment as by calling you again they imply acceptance of your terms.

Re:Just Don't Sign Up for Long Distance

[iamriley]

I agree, 1010811 rocks. Sprint slammed my long distance after I wrote a particularly nasty complaint letter to them. I tried to switch from their long distance to another and they double charged me for long distance. I eventually gave up trying to work with the two phone companies, payed them off, and started using 1010220. Now I've switched to 1010811.

Don't answer if caller ID doesn't identify them

[dirtydog]

I just refuse to answer the phone when I get "data unavailable" or "personal caller" messages. I figure that if they don't want me to know who they are before I pick up the phone, then I sure as hell won't trust them as a consumer. If for some reason it's really someone that matters - they can leave a message.

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[WinDoze]

You can get the number - *69 them and it will appear on your next telephone bill.

I've been slammed twice.

[robl]

I usually use sprint as my LD provider. They've treated me pretty good in the past.

I was home one afternoon, and was called by a sprint customer service rep, saying I had been slammed. Apparently, the practice had been growing, and there were a number of different ways that one could actually be slammed.

All it really takes is your address and telephone number. For instance, have you ever participated in a raffle? By signing your name to a sheet of paper, and not flipping the paper over to read the fine print in light yellow ink, you may have just agreed to be switched to another company.

It turns out that a lot of companies that offer raffles, are really doing it so sign up new long distance customers hoping people won't notice or don't care or both.

The second time it happened, AT&T did it. I was a sprint customer, and one month I got a bill in the mail from the local exchange, and there were all these charges from AT&T. AT&T had casually $2.59 for a several one minute phone calls. This was usually because I was leaving messages on an answering machine. But the two 40 minute calls were $25 apiece. And after going back between AT&T and the local exchange 3 times, they finally figured it out, and I was given a refund.

There was a Long Distance company called "I don't care, Inc." The trick was when people would order new telephone service, the operator would ask the new customer, "Which company would you like for your long distance provider?" Of course, the unknowing customer would say, "I don't care." And that's exactly what they got, a company that jacked their long distance rates as high as 60% over regular AT&T long distance rates.

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[Tackhead]

> You can get the number - *69 them and it will appear on your next telephone bill.

Hmm, this may be a function of your local carrier, or the geographic location of the telemarketer. I've tried this a few times, but generally only get a message saying "We're sorry, the last number that called your line is unavailable".

(I can't believe I'm about to say something nice about spammers, but the one nice thing about them, as opposed to telemarketers, is that it's comparatively trivial to find out where they're coming from. If I could get $500 per spam, I'd be worth about $4.5M at present count. ;-)

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Tackhead]

> They're not invading your privacy. Invading your privacy would be tapping your phone, [...]

Then I suppose you won't mind posting your meatspace address so we can all knock on your door when you're having dinner.

Or if you've got a significant other, perhaps you wouldn't mind allowing the Direct Slashdotting Association to compile a database of your condom-buying habits? We'd like to be able to knock on your bedroom door a few minutes before you get intimate because we know you'll be in a buying mood for our contraceptive products.

Think the "DSA" intruding on your sex life for marketing is a parody? How 'bout the real-world example of the woman whose sprog was stillborn... and she kept having her face rubbed into it every time some marketroid sent her a pack of free sample diapers.

No, direct marketing isn't the same kind of invasion as a wiretap. But it most certainly is invasive.

Re:slammed by AT&T?

[Kalak451]

Actualy, i'm pretty sure that its your local phone company that does the slamming, not the long distance, it just happens that in this case it the same thing (: The company i used to work for got slammed by US West onto all kinds of small EXPENSIVE long distance companies, and of course US West got a chunk of the proffits. We switched to macleod after they did it a couple of times, no problems since.

5 moderator points, and I can't use 'em...

[iceT]

It's a shame you can't moderate the articles themselves. I would probably put all five points to moderate this one as 'off topic'. I'm sitting here trying to figure out what this has to do with ANYTHING computer/technology/privacy related topics. At least tell me this was for a dialup network connection... or hooking a TiVo to it... SOMETHING TECHNOLOGY BASED!!!!! ..... ANYTHING

Re:slammed by AT&T?

[Cramer]

No it wouldn't... you'd just have every LD provider charging a "monthly fee" ("minimum use" as AT&T likes to call it.)

Why don't you just not pay them?

[nuggz]

To me this sounds pretty simple, just don't pay their bill.
You never entered into a service contract with them, you aren't obligated to pay them.
Unless of course there is some silly thing were they can bill you for unsolicited services.

Re:Wrong language, and may not work.

[Coolfish]

You are completely correct. Them calling isn't even considered as an unsolicited call if you have prior business engagements with them.
So, if you deal with a company, and they keep calling you back and you don't want to deal with them, it's still not unsolicited. It's bad business practice, but most companies don't care.
I do hope that Slashdot DOES get a lawyer.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[plague3106]

Actually i thought that as long as ONE party knew the phone conversation was being recorded, then it was legal. Maybe it differs by state, your milage may vary.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[plague3106]

I work for Verizon. We're not all bad.

Bah, verizon is my first experience with a cell phone company, and it blows! They bascially flat out lied to me. First they said if i get a certain plan, then all of this certain area was covered. Covered to me means that i have a decent enough signal to carry on a conversation without being disconnected. Then they promised that a new calling plan would be available, now they say they never will do sucha plan. I'm glad my contracts up soon..

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[plague3106]

Well, personally i think that if i signed a contract based on information they told me, i should be able to back out of it when i find they lied. But alas i'm sure they've covered that in the contract too. I agree, CS has gone downhill pretty quick. One of the few things i liked was the 24hr CS...but now i can only call during the day when i'm busy w/my own job...*sigh*

Re:The sad thing

[Yo_mama]

I used to work for a (now defunct) telco and we got busted for slamming. It turns out that a 3rd party telemarketer we'd hired had been slamming people to get their numbers up to charge us more... I believe that wound up in court.

anyway, sometimes it's not the company itself. Still their fault for hiring a shoddy telemarketer (or even using telemarketers period) though.

You're not the only one AT&T slammed...

[ckd]

In my case, AT&T slammed me just as I was leaving on vacation. My existing LD company (Sprint), logically enough for them, cancelled my calling card because it no longer had an account to be attached to. I tried to use it, and got rejected...while 1000 miles from home. Fun!

Luckily, Sprint was nice about it, understood completely, and fixed up the card. When I got home, I complained to both NYNEX (as they were calling themselves at the time) and AT&T, and eventually wound up with both of them refunding the $5 LD carrier change fees...meaning that I actually made a few bucks for my trouble. Shame it wound up being less than minimum wage for all the time I spent getting it fixed....

Re:You're not the only one AT&T slammed...

[SirYakksALot]

My little brother came to live with me recently, and I signed up for a second line with no long distance at all. The first bill had two $5 charges to "change" long distance to "none".

I called them on it and a nice girl told me "it's required by some law, it's wierd, i dunno". Having previous dealings with the phone company and its screwy regulations, I actually believed it. I asked for the federal regulation number of that law and was fully intending to harass some politicians about it.

After 15 minutes of holding, she came back and said the charges would be waived. Yay!

Highly illegal

[ka0s^]

Phone slamming is highly illegal, but yet ATT seems to get away with it all the time. IMHO you should find the time to report it. It's easy to file a complaint. There is no form to fill out. Write a letter to the FCC and tell them your name, address and phone numbers affected. Also include a phone number where you can be reached. Tell them both the names of the carriers you HAD and that ATT stole your account and any info like a phone number that you can provide or a copy of the bill. Include ALL details of phone conversations and any info you feel they can use. Send info to: Federal Communications Commission, Common Carrier Bureau, Consumer Complaints, Mail Stop Code 1600A2, Washington, DC 20554

Phone Slamming

[kenf]

One, it is illegial.

Two, in Maryland at least, you can tell the phone company to "lock" your long distance carrier, so it can't be done unless you ask the phone company (local) to do it.

Three, you could tell AT&T to put you on their Don't Call list. Then if they telemarket you, sue the bastards.

And go to the authorities. For long distance you may have to contact the FCC.

Re:Phone Slamming

[nsanit]

Two, in Maryland at least, you can tell the phone company to "lock" your long distance carrier, so it can't be done unless you ask the phone company (local) to do it.

This is also possible in Ohio. Actually, I had a friend that worked at a nation-wide long distance company and he told me that this was a Federal law/regulation. You can call your local provider and tell them to "lock your choices for service" and then you're set.

I discovered this option when I got a phone bill that was charging me for a 1-800 number, I called the phone company and bitched for an hour about it - because we all know bitching and anger are the best ways to solve everything.


I've grown sick of the world and its people's mindless games

Who do I pay?

[Webmoth]

According to US West, my company is no longer a customer of theirs, yet we have been getting notices to pay up or have our service cut off...

I think they've got their collective head stuck up their collective arse and are wondering why it's so dark.

As it is, no matter who our local provider is, the fact remains that US West or Qwest or whatever they call themselves today has a monopoly on copper. They get my dime regardless of who I pay it to.

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[cmeans]

We too have Privacy Manager (Chicago), we have the option of setting a PIN (2 - 5 digits I think) which we can give to people who call us (but from a number that doesn't provide caller id info). When they call us, they just enter the PIN when the Privacy Manager message starts, and they get right through.

It doesn't work perfectly...I'm not sure if that's a basic problem with Privacy Manager or the use of the PIN, but it works most of the time.

Privacy Manager has cut down the BS calls we get dramatically...but there's always a few numnuts who just give their name and get through.

---- Sigs are bad for your health ----

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[cmeans]

Maybe your Privacy Manager works differently than mine (or maybe you don't have Privacy Manager and are just going by what you've been able to read)...but as far as I've seen empirically, it's "blocking" all calls not providing caller id info.

---- Sigs are bad for your health ----

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[mrdogi]

I just moved down to Madison, and was reminded of another stupid Ameritech policy: In order to remain unpublished, and therefore off their lists to sell to everybody, I'd have to pay over $4 a month to keep my privacy! Even better, IMHO, is that there is no way to prevent caller id from being used on me whenever I call. Yes, I can dial *67, or whatever, per call, but I can never remember to do so. Telcos can be so annoying. At least I can get the anti-slam thing.

unwanted phone calls

[Ikkyu]

stop unwanted phone calls by saying "put me on your do not call list" write down the company, date, time, if they call you within one year contact the state AG for your $500 or $1500 for the second offence

one of the few fcc rules that I like

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[Schapht]

You can't really get them in any sort of legal trouble. The law goes something like,
Me: "Put me on your don't call list"

From then on in, they legally owe you $200 per call. And if they persist at that point, then you can start doing some REAL damage leagally, if you care to play that game, that is.

Down with the establishment,
Schapht

The correct response is...

[JohnnySax]

"No... No... No... Please remove me from your calling list."

My understanding is that a phone solicitor is allowed to press you until you've said "no" 3 times. Some are nice enough to stop at the first "no" and politely go away. (That actually is worse for me -- I tend to forget the "Please remove me" line in those situations. :)

Also if you ask them to remove you from their calling list, they are obligated by law to do so. By sticking to this regimine, we get far fewer phone solicitation calls than we used to...

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[RobNich]

The problem is that *69 does not work for calls that originated outside of your local phone company's region. Although the calling number may have been passed to the local switch to make the connection (and almost certainly was), for some reason *69 will not work outside of Bell's area.

-A bonified phone geek

Re:Don't blame the telemarketers

[RobNich]

Anonymous call rejection is a service provided by the local exchange carrier (LEC). From what I understood, AT&T was forced out of the local residential business (or banned from owning copper). I'm interested to know what area you live in--do you have competing residential local phone companies? Who?

Re:Consumers vs Corporates

[RobNich]

As an Ohio resident (in the Cincinnati Bell territory, I would never know about Ameritech. However, I work with them in our Cleveland and Indianapolis offices, and I can tell you that they are the worst phone company around.

Local service competition has been around in all of these cities, but certain areas get competition before others. Also note that local service competition means only that other carriers can get a T1 or other loop installed and can provide service to you through it, but must pay the local company for the loop they provide. That means that the local carrier can screw up the loop install all they want and the result is you can't switch to their competitor.

Our Indianapolis office was able to switch service to a competitor (Intermedia) and save more than half on a simple T1 local service.

However, no other local carriers were available yet at the Cleveland office, so we were made to suffer. It took me two days of calling them to get them to execute each step of the changeover (from centrex lines to T1 service, porting numbers to new DID service). On the second day, at 4:30pm, the technician told me that the numbers had already been ported that morning. Customers has been unable to call the office all day and we didn't know. You see, the new service wasn't installed before they ported the numbers. The numbers pointed at a T1 that was _down_. The two days involved me calling the local switch, and asking the guy there who to call next. I had to initiate each step, there was noone taking responsibility for the changeover, and I wasn't waiting around for them to do it. I wanted to go home to Cincinnati.

Porting Indanapolis was delayed by Ameritech, who kept finding stupid problems with the order. The order was "disconnect all lines except one (our modem line). Port all of the disconnected numbers to the new phone company." They said we couldn't leave only one Centrex line. We had to have a minimum of two. I said, "we need a standard phone line." She said, "that's a simple change, I will place the order, which will cost $$$, and in two weeks that will be complete." I said, "good, now, we scheduled a cutover for tomorrow." She said, "No, we must resubmit the cutover for scheduling." They wouldn't give the numbers to Intermedia until they were damned good and ready (and why do they care, as long as I'm paying them for their useless service). It took two months of rescheduling to finally get the job done.

In the end, the Ameritech technician was telling Intermedia that he couldn't port the numbers because the lines were in use. I called the PBx. I looked at the lines. They were not in use. I told Intermedia this. She placed a conference call to Ameritech with me. She said that I was on the line. Ameritech guy said, "you can't have the customer on the phone with me. Call back without him" and hung up.

Ameritech screwed up our billing in Cleveland (double billed us, half-refunded it, they billed us for 3 times the refunded amount again). Ameritech set up a new account with MCI without our permission when we took our service from them, and MCI billed us minimum usage on lines that didn't exist for three months before we noticed.

On the lighter side, Cincinnati Bell, consistently one of the top local phone companies in the US, has been approved for the whole state of Ohio. They are allowed to run copper lines wherever they want to to get around Ameritech, Sprint/United, or any other phone company. They are building out.

Re:Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[RobNich]

Do NOT swear at the telemarketer because they will often add you to the "call back real soon" list to further annoy you!

I was a phone surveyor, and I can attest to that. But when I did it and they said "you owe me $500!!!" I could laugh at them and tell them I wasn't selling anything and therefore not breaking any law.

Politely ask to be added to their "do not call" list. This is surprisingly effective...

Absolutely. People who said "please take my number off your list" politely always got taken off by me (simple as entering that code at the terminal). People who yelled at me usually got taken off, but not when I was having a bad day.

Gawdd, I'm glad to be out of there!!!

Re:I've been Slammed, too.

[RobNich]

By the way, the terminology for this is Preferred Interexchange Carrier or PIC (pronounced "pick"). The "lock" you refer to is called a "PIC freeze". I agree, everyone should get one.

Without a PIC freeze, any carrier can submit a request to the phone company to change your PIC to them, which is convenient--unless they do it without your permission. If everyone had a PIC freeze by default those $90 checks you get wouldn't work because you'd still have to call the phone company to change the PIC.

MORE INFO: You can dial your PIC directly, look at this list (sorry, it's a zip file) for all of the codes. Many carriers have dozens of codes, they may or may not be equivalent to the carrier who recieves charges from the phone company.

When you call to change your PIC, they set your PIC to the number you give them or the carrier has told them to use.

To change your long distance carrier, you can simply tell your phone company to change the PIC (costs ~$5, which carriers sometimes pay for you if you let them change it). If you set up an account with that carrier, they can bill you directly or they will have the phone company bill you on the local phone bill, depends on the carrier and your preference. If you don't set up an account with them, you can get charged inordinate amounts (like $.50 a minute).

In March we changed our local business service (in Indianapolis) from Ameritech to Intermedia. Intermedia has done a wonderful job (I won't get into how Ameritech screwed up the cutover for 2 months). Ameritech, who was billing us for MCI long distance (who was the correct PIC), set up a new account with MCI the second we cancelled our Ameritech service (we already had a corporate account with MCI, but they didn't ask us). The result was that MCI billed us a minimum amount each month on a seperate bill which was payed by our Accounts Payable department without asking us.

Re:I've been Slammed, too.

[RobNich]

Replying to myself, blahh...

I forgot: When dialing the PIC you want, you dial 101 in front of it. It used to just be 10, such as 10-321 or 10-345, but now they added a digit to support more carriers (now 9999 instead of 999). The correct way to dial a number using your "carrier identifier code" is:

101-CIC-NPA-NXX-XXXX

Re:You don't need to sue, call the DTE

[RobNich]

In Ohio it is the

Public Utilities Commision of Ohio

That's right, the puke-oh.

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[RobNich]

HAHA you're right!! what a fucking week...

Re:my first time being first! :P

[rabababoa]

doh i r second! :(

UGH

Just hang up

[Overclocker]

It may not prevent then from slamming you, but why don't you just hang up on phone solicitors? You have no obligation to be nice these bottom feeders. If everyone just did this one simple act then we could wipe this scourge off the face of the earth.

If you just can't help yourself, then look into getting anonymous caller rejection, if it's available in your area. This screens out most of these morons because they block their own calling ID's, since they certainly don't want *you* to know what *their* number is.

Re:Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[jerdenn]

Actually, the FTC is rather clear on this point: Ultimately a seller is responsible for keeping a current "do not call" list, whether it is through a telemarketing service it hires or through its own efforts. here is the link to the FTC site: http://www.ftc.gov/bc p/c online/pubs/buspubs/tsr/abusive.htm

-jerdenn

Re:"Al Gore is 60.5% in love with slashdot.org!

[Greylark]

Al Gore is 96.5% in love with Open Source Software! link
Al Gore is 81.5% in love with CowboyNeal! link
Al Gore is 93% in love with The whole slashdot.org team! link

I just got slammed too

[hariya]

I am in Minneapolis and my phone was slammed one weekend I was away in New York. I finally got it set right and this is what you need to know.

1. Call the FCC and register a complaint. Their phone number is (888) 225 5322.

2. Call your local company and tell them you want a PIC freeze on your phone number(s). This stops them from changing your long-distance provider unless you call them up and give them the right code effectively ending all forms of slamming.

3. When you get your next bill, look for the charges carefully. MCI should reconnect you for free and any charges made to you by ATT should be dropped or charged at the same rate you get from MCI. Your local access company should do that.

Whenever you call any of the companies, make copious notes of every thing that transpired and get the operator's name and id. A paper trail is very useful in getting rid of the huge charges you might incur.

Good Luck.

Re:One summer, my mom cheated the phone companies.

[devjoe]

I did that for a while when I was in college, too. I guess this was around 1994-1995. For about two years, every couple months I switched phone companies between AT&T, MCI, and Sprint. I didn't even make a whole lot of long distance calls. Between the introductory plans and the checks paying me to switch, I made money off the long distance companies during this time.

I only stopped because I stopped getting the offers. I wonder why? ;-)

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[Sango]

I seem to recall hearing something about this.. When a telemarketer calls you're supposed to tell them to put you on their "do not call list." Take down the company name, date, and time that they called, then if they call again you're entitled to sue for $500 or so in damages.

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[ewieling]

In violation of (my) reading of the FCC rules, most telemarketers make their equipment unable to pass caller id information to the phone network. Therefore, telemarketers show up as "unknown number" or something along those lines. These calls are not considered "blocked" by the local phone company and so to not get caught by services like "privacy manager", which only catch numbers with caller id blocked. --Eric

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[ewieling]

I'll have to see if BellSouth has a better package. I currently have a "block the blocker" service, which doesn't catch "unknown number" calls. It was my understanding that that was as good as it gets, since if someone calls from some rural area that doesn't support caller id, they assume it's an OK call.

Texas Slam & Cram Laws

[Trinity-Infinity]

Texas has wrestled with this issue for awhile, and it was pretty big in the last Legislature session 2 years ago. Since then, the local companies have participated in this less - and I see many more warnings, cautions, and "what to do" type information if you do find yourself crammed or slammed in my phone bills and such. There's a good link below with a story about the issue when it came through. Now all TX needs is a lower in state longdistance rate. That's something that is regulated by the local companies, and TX has the highest in the state (was 40 c/min to call Houston from Dallas for me til I got a cell phone, now its 4c... hmmmm... ).

In all - phone companies DO suck, and try to rob the unsuspecting and unaware consumer for every dollar he has.

http://www.reporternews.com/1999/texas/slam0303. html

slammed

[Tayknight]

I got slammed 4 years ago. I got signed up for a 1-800 number. The $60 charge magically appeared on my phone bill. Being a poor college student at the time, I called SWB to ask about the charge. I was told I had signed up for a 800 number. I said I didn't and I wanted the charge taken off my bill. They said they couldn't and I would have to call the company that issed the 800 number and have them credit my SWB account. I called the company and they said they would credit my account. The next month came around and I still had the original $60 plus $60 for the next month. I went through the whole routine, with the phantom company again saying they would credit my account. Then I get a letter from a collection agency saying I owed $120 + $30 in collection fees. Sux as we only have one option here for local service. I didn't do business with SWB until I got married, and then I put the service in my wife's name.

More tales of slamming woe..

[Dr. Klaw]

I used to (a few years ago) work for one of those 10-10 numbers. It was boring, if well-paying work, and sadly, we would constantly get calls from extremely irate people who were 'slammed' over to our service. We were always perplexed (we ran support, marketing/customer recruiting was handled by another company), and would pass the problems along to my boss. Eventually, the word leaked down as to the problem - the outside contractors hired by the company had been forwarding along people's information as transfer requests, rather than the 'no' they had responded with. Not realizing it, the technical folks switched them over to our service, and BAM, the customer calls up all bitter 'cause he got switched.

Interestingly, if you look at FCC suits in the past, every single major carrier, and most of the minor ones, have been fined for slamming. It's the sad truth that it happens every day, and it's easily preventable with a lock on the line.

So no, you're not alone.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[wmorein]

Right...

And if you don't pay it they send you to debtors prison.

Please.

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[MattW]

That's "anonymous call blocking", which I mentioned. I want one that knows that people are soliciting ;)

Adventures in Slamming

[4of12]

It was an amazing tour to discover the wildlife and jungle that exists in this market.

What with large carriers contracting out the marketing of their service with a wink and a nudge to slimier subcontractors that slither in tight spaces faster than monthly phone bills come out with your new long distance carrier on it.

Note, interestingly, that while the slimey subcontractor is supposed to take the fall for the slam, that some big company is who your new long distance carrier happens to be. They both win, and your finger ends up pointing at a ghost.

Basically, despite the hullabaloo about requiring verification, Joe Blow can call up the phone company and say that he is an authorized party on, oh, say, your phone number, just giving some other number to call for verification and a physical mailing address of a nephew-in-law where he can respond/ignore snail mail for Joe Blow.

He requests a change of service on your number, the local phone carrier and the long distance companies call for verification to the number that Joe Blow gave them (not your number - the one being slammed!), they change the service, and they mail Joe Blow a check for the number of subscribers he's changed, he dissolves his verification phone number and disappears completely after cashing the check. This can happen within the inside of the 1 month billing cycle that your phone bill is produced, so that by the time you find out something is awry, it's too late!

[This feels like a bad security announcement:) You kidz out there shouldn't try this at home - professional sleazeballs only!]

If you call your state regulatory commission, guess how many voice mails you get to leave before the overworked underpaid bureaucrat gets back to you? Plus, with the telecoms boom, guess whether the state regulatory commission or a commercial outfit will pay better and give better benies? And, given the lobbying by the rich telcos, guess whether such regulatory commissions will ever be sufficiently staffed?

The only thing I can recommend is that you tell your phone company you want a PIC freeze on your service. That will slow down the most egregious slamming, with the negligible cost that if you really do want to change your long distance service you'll have to jump through a few more hoops.

US drug laws

[xant]

Due to the fact that somebody (I assume it's the religious right) has given our Drug Czar permission to do whatever the fuck he wants with our freedom, to prevent drug dealers opening bank accounts, we are not allowed to open a bank account with only a cell phone number.

Of course you can TRY, and hope they never call you. . .
--

My favorite thing to do to telemarketers

[JasonVergo]

I have caller Id, so I know 95% of the times if its going to be a telemarketer. So, when I pick up the phone I immediately asks them for their name. If you starled them about 50% of the times they'll give it to you. Then I hop on people.yahoo.com and do a quick lookup and ask them if they mind if I'd call them at 555-5555. Talk about having a moment of revelation on the phone. Then sound especially nutz, like telling them about the great deal you have on flux capacitors.

But seriously, how much longer will AT&T be around? You can currently make higher quality calls for free. Sure, AT&T own much of the wires that is the backbone of the net. According to some of my own calculations AT&T had its hayday. Their growth rate is severely limited by the facts that communication is getting cheaper($/mbps), technology is reducing costs, faster computers means better compression which equals better utilization of the lines. The killer app that is going to demand massive amount of bandwidth is on-demand video. Though, I believe we'll build technology that handle distribution better then the current PPP model. I'm not sure if the technology will be a Gnutella style app or more like usenet on steriods. Basicly, AT&T needs to stop acting like an old tire corporation and using time tested approaches like slamming and repeatably calling you during dinner. Boycott all of the phone companies!

Re:AT&T Sucks

[bigbigbison]

similarly, I've had my credit card company call me and ask me if I would like a credic card from them. When I told them I already had thier card, the person on the line paused for a minute and asked me if I would like another one. I told them, no I don't want any of thier cards and cut up the one from them (that wasn't the only reason of course). A few months later I got a new card because apparently the old one had expired. IT had a sticker on it that said I needed to call to activate it. I just cut it up and didn't bother calling. Six months later they sent me a bill for an anual fee (which they never had back when I used the card). I called them and they didn't seem to understand that I had never even activated their card I had to talk to a supervisor before they would drop the bill.

No Call List

[iamcadaver]

Hemos, just metion the three words, and see how they react.

"No Call List."

Write the date down when you utter the magic incantation. If they call back after that, then call the AG's office.

Ha ha ha ha! You silly, foul mouthed troll...

[NuclearArchaeologist]

Just wait until this happens to your electric bill! Ahhhh, ha-ha ha-ha ha-ha haaa! Where's your light bulb going to be then?

Phone? Who cares?

[NuclearArchaeologist]

Poster does not use his phone much, and could live without the thing if only his wife would let him.

Just wait until this happens to your UTILITY BILL!

Some things are better left regulated.

The point of this post is not that deregulating the phones was bad.

One summer, my mom cheated the phone companies...

[mat catastrophe]

This probably won't get noticed much, way down here in the 400+ posts, but it's an idea if you get bored and want to fuck with the phone people....

One summer, my mom decided to be very helpful to the phone people. When MCI called and asked if she wanted to switch, and get $50 in free calls, she said yes. When AT&T called a couple of weeks later and asked if she wanted to switch back and get $50 in free calls, she said yes. And so it continued.

All summer long, my mom's phone bill was paid for by switching long distance providers. For all I know, she's still doing it.

I also got slammed, but by another company

[myc]

Qwest (sp?) Communications slammed our phone account about a month ago. It's a good thing that we use access codes for intl' long distance (better pricing). "Qwest Communications" showed up on our local (Southwestern Bell) phone bill, and upon checking with SWB we discovered that we, in fact, had been slammed. Here are some interesting things I learned from my experience:

(1) insofar as you the consumer are concerned, you are basically fucked. It takes forever on hold with the local telco's customer service line, and all the support grunt can do is file a complaint ticket. According to the grunt I spoke with, the consumer basically has no recourse against the long distance carrier that slams you; SWB investigates the incident and reports it to the FCC, and at best Qwest gets fined by the FCC. All the inconvenience that I was put through is in no way compensated.
(2) Be careful when dealing with your local telco, they will nickel and dime you to death with "carrier switching fees" (5 bucks a pop with SWB) unless you are really careful reading yur bill. For instance, originally I was with AT&T (5 bucks), then I get slammed (another 5 bucks), then I complain about getting slammed and want to switch back to AT&T (another 5 bucks). According to the SWB grunt, **AT&T** is responsible for refending me the carrier switching fees, which is of course ridiculous. Regardless of who is responsible I figure I'm getting overbilled 10 bucks.
(3) AT&T support is not that bad. Their grunt offered to cover the extra 10 bucks by crediting our account, even though logically they were not obligated to do so.
(4) We were on a special promotional plan with AT&T before we were slammed, and due to having to switch back and forth, we lost our promotional discount rate. The bastards!

Bottom line is, you're fucked no matter how you look at it. Sure you could sue them but the way the legal system is set up it's typically not a financially feasible approach.

Re:How rich are you, -Ben?

[Caspuh]

No...the lawyer would be there to offer legal advice, not to decide basic rights. get a clue.

Why not go with RCN??

[psxndc]

I live in Watertown (just outside of Boston) and I use RCN. I know they're not in some parts of Beantown, but they were entering the Fenway when I left ($1200 a month for a tiny one bedroom?? c'mon!) so it might be worth a shot. I get local phone service, long distance at $.09/minute, no long distance carrier fee, cable modem (usually around 125KB/sec down (KB, not Kb)), and 80 cable channels including 5 HBO and 3 skinemax for $109 a month (Resilink Gold). I love 'em (excpet for the issues we had back during the Verizon strike with our phone). I don't know what sort of package would be for you, but its a pretty nice deal and my 3rd month (this one) is free.1-800-ring-rcn

psxndc

Re:Pay if you don't have LD in MN!

[Sadfsdaf]

Yes, solicitating over a cell phone is ILLEGAL, anything telemarkiting costs you money is illegal (yes that includes fax paper) except for your personal time. I found it off of junkbusters.com

Re:Stress Relief

[ahaning]

Actually, I've received calls lately about getting credit cards (I think..whatever it was, I didn't want it.) and they'll say that they will be recording the call "for clerical reasons". (yeah, if you couldn't understand me the first time, how could you understand me later. And anyway, you have my name and number, you can get my other info.) I suspect that maybe they've had people harass the callers and this might be a way to prove that the callers were harassed.

Anyway, it usually goes something like this:

TM: You have been pre-approved for blah blah blah. I just need to confirm some information here...will you be in school in the next month?

ME: Thank you for calling but I'm not interested in your offer at this time.

TM: Oh but this is a great deal. Blah blah.

ME: No, I'm still not interested.

[hang up]

I once even had a girl continue after my second refusal. I had to say: "Well, I'm *STILL* not interested. I've had this call before and I turned it down then and I'm going to have to turn it down now."

Geesh.

Hint: If there's no answer within the first second or two after you pick up the phone, hang up, the likely just saw light 3 come on and are hurridly looking up and trying to figure out how to pronounce your name.

AT&T takes prisoners, not customers

[Muttonhead]

Slamming is definitely illegal.

Recently, I switched over from having chosen "unselected" as my carrier (and being charged for it nonetheless by BellSouth) to AT&T and it took three tries. I'd place the order, it would be confirmed, but a week later it was as if they'd never heard of me. And it's a long process because they're being punished for past slamming. So after the order taker takes the order and reads a confirmation script and you agree to each of the changes, they then send you to another person to check it again. It took more than an hour each time. Sheez! I asked them why this was so difficult and they said it was because of past slamming.

Another horror story: several years ago I decided to try AT&T internet service via one of their postcards. So I tried their service, but they didn't have telnet, so that next day I tried to cancel online. Unlike the online signup, NOWHERE was there a place to cancel. Shouldn't this be illegal? I called them to cancel, but they said I would be able to do that later after some period of time was up. Hey, I wanted to cancel then and there, but couldn't. I didn't really think about it because for 15 months I was never billed. Remember I only used their service for ONE DAY.

Lo and behold, after 15 months I started getting billed on my credit card, an AT&T credit card as well. However, this was an inactive CC and I didn't pay attention to the statement for three months.

It was a pain to cancel the internet service and then dispute the CC billing. Telling them to check and see that I hadn't used their service for 15 months didn't work either.

AT&T doesn't want customers, they want prisoners. They wear you down hoping you'll just give in.

Finally it was all straightened out, but had to go through the whole credit card dispute thing in writing.

I'm embarrased to say I'm an AT&T stockholder.

Lastly, dealing with telemarketers is very easy. By law, at least in Florida, they have to put you on their "do not call" list if you request it. I'm fond of saying this after listening to their initial speil:

"Let this serve as notice to put this phone number on your do not call list." They've always been polite and complied. It may take three or so tries, but IT WORKS!

I recently moved last month and said this to a guy today: "Do you have a do not call list?" "Yes," he said. I replied, "Would you put me on it?" "Yes," was the response. Easy.

40 lines to slam

[wanab12]

I have to watch 40 seperate lines to make sure they are not slammed. Most of the time it's the long distance companies that I had switch service from. They just reconnect the line without any notification. They tell me "the computer automatically restarts the account every 6 mos". The only way to stop them is to yell into the phone "I DON'T EVER WANT YOUR SERVICE. IF I SEE A BILL FROM YOU ONE MORE TIME I WILL SUE YOU!" and then send a complaint to the FCC.

How I got rid of MCI

[Temkin]

MCI used to call me every other day, trying to get me on the "friends and family plan". Funny thing is, I never make long distance calls. My entire family lives in my local toll region. I finally told them that point blank. I just said "No really, I make like 1 long distance call a year, and I'm thinking of dropping long distance capability on this phone line altogether. I'll just use my cell when I need it." I haven't heard from them in months.

Temkin

How I solved the problem

[ionisation]

When I moved to my new apartment in Boston, I did away with the land line altogether. Cell phone only, thank you! As for connectivity - DSL line. Granted, that uses a verizon line, but my ISP uses Covad, so my money is going to the competition!!

What was I supposed to say about a wire brush?

If the tell them properly they can't call you

[ektor]

You can opt out of all this telemarketing crap although it might take a while until you make it into all the right lists.

For a very good resource on this issue check: http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/ en/ telemarketing.html

Canadian version

[scruffyMark]

A friend of mine was getting this sort of call for a while, about one a day for a while. This would have been from Bell Canada, since by default everyone around here has SaskTel for both local and long distance calls.

He kept saying, essentially, "No, and don't call again.", but it didn't do any good.

Finally, he got fed up, did a call lookup (or maybe he had call display, I forget), and then reported the number to the cops. When they called the next day, he just said, "I've reported your number to the police, and if I ever get another call from you, I will have you charged with harassment."

He got profuse apologies from the operator, and then a manager came on the line and apologized to him some more. Hasn't gotten a call since.

Seems there isn't any legal requirement that they respect your request that they stop calling, but if you keep telling them not to call, and they keep calling back, harassment charges have a real chance of sticking. After a couple of harassment convictions, the operation would likely just be shut down.

Frequent Flyer Miles with AT&T

[Dr. Nonsense]

You actually CAN get frequent flyer miles with AT&T -- they offer frequent flyer miles through Continental, I believe. I just switched back to AT&T, actually.. and am getting $.05 a minute state-to-state (no fee - 6 month period) and well I will be getting $.05/min in-state LD ($5 monthly
fee)

You just need to ask, I would assume all the major carriers have frequent flyer plans with various airlines.. it's probably best to call up the airlines you fly and ask them who they might have programs with.. you might be surprised where you can earn miles/discounts/promos through for all sorts of things.

Is everybody here saving their Newport UPCs, Marlboro Miles, and Camel Cash?

Re:Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[ebh]

There seems to be a loophole in there somewhere that one of the local newspapers is exploiting. It boils down to whose do-not-call list.

The last time I got a call from them I told them I had repeatedly asked them to put me on their do-not-call list yet they kept calling me.

"*We* do not keep calling you," the supervisor said to me. He then told me that the newspaper contracts out their (massive) telemarketing to a large number of telemarketers, and that none of the databases are passed around. This means that even though they're working for the same client, I have to get on the do-not-call list of every one of the telemarketing firms before the calls will finally stop.

I find it hard to believe that the client is not ultimately responsible, but apparently as long as they tell the telemarketers, "Just get us the damn subscriptions," they're not. :(

Re:US West DSL vs AT&T

[VultureMN]

Yeah, dealing with USWest re:DSL is fucking HORRIBLE. I'd rather gouge my eyeballs out with rusty spoons than try calling USWest techsup. Once, after calling to fix a problem (which took about 2 weeks, btw, 'cause the first level tech people SUCK and the 2nd level people never call back) they somehow switched me to "random invoice" for LD, where I was paying 3 bucks a minute for long distance. And THAT took 3 months to fix because the people at USWest refused to believe that we didn't WANT to pay $3 a minute; they insisted that I had changed the service because THEY sure as hell couldn't have fucked it up. All this happened because of me trying to get techsup for my DSL service. Sheesh.

Then, after moving to Seattle and getting DSL setup here, they fucked up the ISP I had chosen, were late getting the service on, and decided to call me "custmr12387" or some such like that. Of course, after calling and bitching about that, now I can't call anywhere in the 712 area code. I can call anywhere ELSE, but can't call the 712 area code. WTF??

Everyone at USWest (Qwest, whatever, same shit different name) needs to have large ClueDildoes crammed up their asses. With spikes. And acid. And pitbulls. After that, something REALLY nasty needs to happen to them.

A source of good advice for what to do

[petard]

Even more proof that telemarketers are scum. Visit The anti-telemarketer's source to get information on how to get your revenge and have some fun with AT&T.

YMMV!
--petard

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[fsck]

Afaik, recorded telephone conversations are not admissable as evidence unless both parties are aware that it is in fact being recorded. This means you have to tell them you are recording. Unless of course you are the federal government, or have a court order that allows you to tap without consent (good luck).

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[RubyRidge]

Almost correct. Take a call from any telemarketroid. Record date/time, company name, caller name, and politely make it perfectly clear you do not be wish be called again. Same company's 'troids call again, record the same info, file (less that $100 in most states) in small claims court for $750. And you get the court costs back, too. This has been known to cut the 'troids out of life's little pains.

'Cause the man gets annoyed if you shot 'em

I've been slammed by Encore Communications

[flashbang]

And it really really sucked. It is illegal, but one of the best things you can do to help yourself is make sure you put a "freeze" on your account with your local bell. Call them up and tell them you would like to put a "freeze" on your account. This prevents slamming because it takes verbal authorization from you, and a third party (non-interested third party verification people) to switch. Do it for you local and your long distance. The company that slammed me got in some serious trouble with the FCC not too long after they did it. I found out I was slammed when I tried to make a international long distance call and it wouldn't let me. Slamming really really sucks.

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[lordmage]

*SCREAM HARD*

Then what do you do about your CREDIT CARD companies who call you? They are not in violation of the TCPA because you are WITH THEM. ie: Get free insurance, or add this feature etc. EVERY SINGLE CC company I dealt with DOES THIS. Citibank, First USA, AT&T, Choice, CapitalOne, Discover.

You tell me? We almost need a CC to live and expecially to play on internet buying. So help me out here? WHAT THE HELL do you DO?

zerg

[Lord Omlette]

"if I get my gumption up I'll call the State AG's office."

Do it, I want to see what happens. At the very least, it'll get slashdot in the news.

Does it bother anyone that the phone companies have no problem solving tremendously large order of magnitude problems and they have all this state of the art technology, but they can't provide decent customer service? Fucking monopolies.
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057

at$t sux

[anomie]

I've had many problems with their wireless divsion. my contract with them is up this month, and I'm giving them the boot. Verizon sux just as much!

Re:Don't blame the telemarketers

[psicE]

We actually have AT&T for everything except long distance, and they have a built-in anonymous call rejection feature.

Re:Don't blame the telemarketers

[psicE]

No, AT&T certainly has my local phone service. Our "normal" provider is Verizon, and AT&T offers us what they call Phone-over-Cable, so I think that they don't need to own copper (they just send the phone signals over your existing cable lines).

Re:Damn thing doesn't work

[psicE]

But AT&T gives it to you for free. Their view is, charge them the price of basic local plus 75% of the price for all features. It's cheaper than Verizon if you wanted everything, and REALLY cheaper if you need two lines with only one equipped. That way, all the people who don't need the features still pay for them -- more money for AT&T.

The point of this is, we get anonymous blocking for free and it works pretty well. The only blocked calls we get are "Out of Area" calls, and they're always pranks (not telemarketers.)

Slamming

[Lurker187]

See the FCC document (in PDF) on Slamming. To sum it up, you are not responsible for any charges for being switched to the slammer or back to your preferred provider. You are only responsible for charges from the slammer if you used their service for more than 30 days, and even then, if they are charging more than the service you were switched from, they cannot collect more than your previous company would for the services you used.

Re:Slamming

[spectreone]

to my knowledge, most phone companies won't even switch your LD servcie just from a phone call. When I bought a SprintPCS cell phone, they accidentally signed me up to switch to them for LD, and sent me a confirmation letter first to avoid things like this.

Re:How rich are you, -Ben?

[n8dmt]

This needs to be moderated up!!

Yes

[dsl]

It's most assuredly illegal. Go after 'em!

MCI is just as bad

[stilwebm]

MCI slammed me twice, once in the 80's and once in the 90's. Both MCI and AT&T have admitted to condoning slamming in the past, and promised to stop. But once you establish it as acceptable in your saled department, people are going to continue to try to get better sales by slamming.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[alanjstr]

Sue them for slamming. Teach them that its not acceptable at all. Actually, tell your local Public Utilities Commision what has been going on.

I work for Verizon. We're not all bad.

Re:Consumers vs Corporates

[rgmoore]

The recent Ford/Firestone tire recall brought a similar problem to light - there was strong rumors that at one point, Firestone weighed the cost of a recall of the tires in the US to the cost of settling any wrongful death lawsuits that may come from the problem. As I said, that's a rumor, but that seems to be a bottom line for many companies nowadays -- if it means more profits after paying the penalties, harm (physical or not) against the consumer is worth it.

And this is exactly the reason that so many of the proposed punative damage caps are such a terrible idea. In a lot of cases, the only restraint on the behavior of these companies is the fear that they'll be sued. If you put some kind of cap on punative damages, it greatly increases the chance that a company will do the math and come to the conclusion that it's cheaper to do something unsafe and settle any resulting lawsuits than to do the right thing and stop the unsafe behavior.

Yes, it seems unreasonable that the relatives of Firestone tire-related crash victims (or whatever other group you're talking about) will pick up a windfall from those punative damages. But unless the damages are not just greater but much greater than the cost of a recall (or other safe action) then companies will continue to be unsafe- and it makes more sense for the people actually hurt to get the money than anyone else.

No LD, use a net-telecom provider

[delevant]

I cancelled my LD service, and now use one of those net-to-phone services (like Dialpad.com).

It works pretty well, if you don't need to reach anyone at specific times of the day -- sometimes all the lines will be jammed, and then you simply can't get through. Also, it tends to muck up your caller-ID signal (naturally), so people might not pick up your call.

But hell, it's free -- and these long-distance cards last FOREVER now that I don't need 'em for normal unimportant calls....

I dunno, YMMV I guess.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[luckykaa]

Not to much of a problem surely. Simply inform them that the call is being recorded. Confirm that they are aware that the call is being recorded (If they seem uncomfortable with this ask to talk to their supervisor). Ask to be added to the do-not-call list. Long winded but it should scare them enough to make sure that they don't call again.

Or say.....

[luckykaa]

"Hold on while I turn the cooker down", and leave them holding on. It might work. It might not. On the plus side, it IS costing them money:)

Have Fun With Them

[BadBlood]

Start asking them questions like:
"What are you wearing?", even if it's someone of the same sex. Ask them about their sexual preferences and what they enjoy. Try to really disturb them and get them to hang up on you. Act deviant. It's easy for me for some reason....

It's so amazing how you can toy with an inferior mind and eventally get them to do your bidding. Oh yeah, it's evil too, but so are they. Two wrongs don't make a right, but they make things even and that's all I care about :)

Shut Them Up

[VegeBrain]

Go to the Junkbusters website and print off their anti-telemarketing script. Keep it by your phone and use it when these pests call you. I've reduced my telemarketing calls to essentially zero by using this script. It's also gratifying when you start going down the list of questions, because you take control what's going on. Telemarketers suddenly get polite because they're trained to deal with this script and they know that they can get sued under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act if they don't watch what they're doing.

ADA

[geekoid]

Another Damn Acronym

Re:Nine magic words:

[sik puppy]

no they won't

I have a letter from an at&t manager apologizing for repeatedly calling AFTER being told not to 3 times. No calls for about two months. Guess who called last week.

I'm filling out the small claims paperwork now...no lawyers

slamming isn't always intentional

[JWRose]

By working at a fairly large communications company, I can say that when a company slams, it's not always intentional. In fact, if AT&T's system works anything like my companies, it's fairly easy to slam someone unintentionally. For example, we get a request to transfer phone number 999-555-1234 from company X to company Y, and at some point in the system numbers get transposed, believe me it does happen, then the new number gets slammed. This usually happens due to some manual intervention, why they have manual intervention still blows my mind.
In any case, as much as we all want to flame AT&T it could have been unintentional. Just food for thought!

Re:slammed by AT&T?

[carlos_benj]

Sorry. It's the local telco that has to make the switch, but it is the long distance company (or likely some telemarketing subcontractor) that does the slamming. The telco operates in good faith that the long distance company has obtained your OK. The slamming LD co. has to pay for the switch both times and I believe any calls billed by the slamming LD co. can be disputed successfully.

Slamming and Cramming

[Holyscapegoat]

A long distance company (don't remember which one) did this to the family of a friend of mine. All of a sudden, they had a different long distance carrier. They called the company when they noticed the long distance carrier was different on their bill (and that they were being charged considerably more), and were told that they had requested to switch! When they protested, they were treated to a recording of my friend that was clearly pieced together from a fake survey they had apparently taken a couple of weeks earlier. From their description, it was quite funny to hear the recording when my friend was clearly not responding to the questions!

Another fun scheme of the phone companies is cramming. My own parents had this happen to them, and their case actually helped change a law here in Michigan. My parents are some old-school technophobes that still have rotary dial. Well, we received a call one day from Ameritech asking if we wanted to upgrade our CallerID service to include the name or something like that. Well, considering that my parents wouldn't spring for touchtone service, they surely didn't order caller ID! After a couple months of wrangling and a few local newspaper pieces, Ameritech paid back 3 years worth of caller ID service.

Comes down to one thing - companies large or small will do anything for a buck. The only reason they won't do something is if there is a good chance they'll get caught.

Goodbye Slashdot

[NaughtyEddie]

I'm off. I'm not going to do a Signal 11. I'm not leaving because moderation sucks (although it does). I'm leaving because most of the posters here simply aren't very nice people

To the handful of people who I've had reasonable conversations with: thanks, it's been cool.

To the hundreds of dickheads, mostly ACs, who've sworn at me, called me every name under the sun, moderated me down because I was not 100% pro-Linux, and so on: fuck the lot of you. Your time will come, you arrogant sons of bitches.

This account will remain - someone's going to be trolling with it. I won't say who, just that it's not me ... if I ever visit Slashdot again it'll be to check the news links, not to participate in what is jokingly referred to as the "community".

[Not reading responses]

--
It's a .88 magnum -- it goes through schools.

Re:Goodbye Slashdot

[Refrag]

What did Signal 11 do?


Refrag

Re:Goodbye Slashdot

[jafac]

tsk. tsk. Another Slashdot suicide. How many more have to suffer this needless, senseless end, before they change the moderation rules? (User #140998 - that's a big loss).

Slam Away

[jon_adair]

We gave up on having a decent long distance provider attached to our phone. We have the flavor of the month. If someone sends us a check to switch, we cash it. If someone calls us to ask us to switch, they get to explain it to the table. We do maybe $5 in long distance a month and we just do it on a calling card.

Re:slammed by AT&T?

[kingsquab]

(Bear in mind that "LC" and "LDC" are not formal acronyms to my knowledge. IIRC, we used "local service provider" (LSP) in place of "LC", and never really referred to any LDP other than ourselves.)

s/LC/LEC/g
s/LDC/IXC/g
BR&g t;Actually knowing the meaning of these acronyms is left as an exercise for the reader. :)

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[Refrag]

What the heck is slamming? Changing your LD without permission?


Refrag

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[Kronovohr]

My favorite trick: set up getty to answer when someone calls. This not only
irritates the hell out of them, but it makes for a giggle whenever you hear
the modem try to handshake with a dumbass (:

Interesting Slam Story (okay - at least to me)

[Eristone]

A few months ago my wife picked up the phone bill from her Mom's house and noticed a different long distance company (she's happy with AT&T there - I prefer MCI... go figure) Qwest had suddenly picked up the long distance service -- she called their customer service department and they said they had a tape of her Mom or her (one of the folks paying the bill) approving the request. When they played the tape back, it was all in Spanish! Interestingly enough, although both my wife and her mom speak Spanish fluently, they only use it when talking about me, and never answer the phone or conduct conversations with telemarketers in it. It turns out that Qwest had some enterprising folks that were going through various 'ethnic' and 'poor' neighborhoods and slamming them across the board because most people don't even pay attention to their long distance provider. Needless to say the Public Utilities Commission here in California were interested...

Next time they call, ask to be put on "Do Not Call

[amigabill]

If AT&T Keeps harrassing you over the phone, asking you to switch long distance (or for any company phoning you to sell any product/service) ask to be put on their "Do Not Call List", and they can't legally call you agani for a year I think. If they do call within that time, you can sue them, I think $1000 for first offense, $500 for each additional offense, until the year time runs out when they can legally phone you again. (And if they do, again ask to be put on their do not call list)

Sprint is a little odd...

[Weirdling]

They called me at nine pm to ask if I was happy with their service. How annoying.

Monopolies

[Alomex]

While long distance stopped being a monopoly since the breakup of AT&T, it seems that a lot of the "screw the customer" attitude borne from those years is still with us and furthermore managed to make its way to other new carriers...

Just yesterday I had an incident with a Sprint "customer advocate" which refused to allow international calls from my digital cell phone.

Almost no business would turn away a platinum american express, six-figure-income programmer as a risky and undesirable customer, yet that is what Sprint did.

I think those are attitudes derived from times when the corporation, not the customer was king...

Re:Monopolies

[Alomex]

FYI, Platinum's no longer a big deal--they hand them out to anyone willing to pay the $300/yr., pretty much... Don't be a sucker, switch back to green and save a couple hundred bucks a year.

Read the fine print. "Free companion ticket anywhere in the world". That is worth more than $300, and the sole reason why I upgraded to platinum six years ago...

Re:Monopolies

[Alomex]

Does the first ticket have to be a full-fare ticket?

No. They twin any ticket bought from selected aircarriers (AA, Delta and some others, if I remember correctly). I understand the plan changed this year with the talk about mergers and all, so read the fine print before enrolling...

Ethical Long Distance Phone Company

[Once&FutureRocketman]

Four Words:
Working Assets Long Distance

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[cjcamejo]

I live in North Adams, Massachusetts, and had to do the same thing. Seeing as Hemos is in Massachusetts, maybe that's something he should look into...

Yup...been slammed

[bigfatlamer]

And the worst part was that I had AT&T LD at the time and the company that slammed me was called AA&T! Since I'm lazy and just tend to glance at my phone bill before paying it, it wasn't until the 2nd bill (>$200 in LD when our normal total phone bill is usually ~$75) and a call from AT&T asking why I'd switched that I even realized we'd been slammed. The good news is that I disputed the charges w/ B-A, claiming that it was their responsibility to make sure that we had agreed to have our LD service change. They removed the charge from my bill and had us switched back to AT&T. Similar letters went to the BBB and the NY State AG's office so I assume that the company that slammed me (if they still existed at the end of the year) was fined. E

Re:confirmation!

[d_pirolo]

Actually, State AG's is correct, as what Hemos meant, I assume, was the State Attorney General's office, as in the specific Mass. Attorney General. Possessive, not plural. -d

What about Canada?

[mad_cow]

I've read a number of the posts so far that outline solutions to stop and prevent disturbances from telemarketers as provided by US Federal law, but does anyone know about similar provisions under Canadian law?

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[AntiNorm]

This is all fine and dandy, until you get FAX SPAMMED!

Don't remember the exact name of the law, but I do remember that this is a violation of federal law in the US.

=================================

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[shepd]

Well, just a suggestion but... why not just say "The remainder of this conversation will be recorded for the purposes of gathering incriminating evidence against your company for repeated violations of the TCPA." when the telemarketers call. Say it overtop of what they are saying (and record yourself saying it) and refuse to repeat it. Then see if you can sweet talk them into giving out their info.

If they actually listened to that, they are probably going to put your name on that do not call list since you are obviously going to some lengths to gather evidence against them. Or they can just blab on and let you record. Either way, you win. :-)

Just an idea. Oh, and IANAL, so this isn't real advice.

"Slammed"?

[sid_vicious]

But they evidently decided that me saying no meant yes, and so slammed me. I hate this practice.

Que Paso? Can you elaborate on what exactly this "slamming" practice is? Did they switch your provider without your permission?

Re:Acronym Karma Whore

[driftwood]

A few examples of "Profound" Latin:

• Digitus Bonum Lingarus. - Finger Lickin' Good.
• Operi Manos Laven. - Workers must wash hands.
• Romani Ite Domum. - Romans go home.

My horror story

[nettarzan]

I had the bigATT charge me exorbitant amount for my long distance charges. I was their customer and I relocated to another area. I called them before and after I moved and informed them promptly what I am doing. But it was not until 3 or 4 months, I realized that they charged me high rates. I called them and they said I did not have a plan on my line. What the heck? I had a calling plan before relocating and I told them I wanted to retain the same account status with a different phone number. I called them and explained the problem. One customer representative gave me credit but it was rejected later telling some vague reason ignoring my explanation. I again called and another customer representative re-issued the credit because that person felt I had a valid reason. But that credit never came to me and I spent hours every week calling them and enquiring about the status. Finally when I called they flatly told me my case was closed long back even though I was constantly being told it is still in processing. Their aim was to wear me down but I persisted and wrote BBB. Their whole billing system is messed up that I got different everytime. The whole experience was so disgusting that I would not even think of siging up with them again for any service.

Re:Hmm...

[elfkicker]

It's simply rediculous that it's not that easy. Unfortunately, you need to track down the complaints number for your phone comapny, PAY for a call trace, and as if that's not enough, file a police report to actually get any info about the caller. At this stage, who doesn't have Caller ID? Who isn't pissed off with endless calls from telemarketers selling credit cards, phone service, and political messages? Why isn't there a mandate that solicitive calls don't have to require special caller ID info? I mean, this is just spam after all. Far more intrusive than an email in my opinion, just not as cost effective so only big evil corporations can afford it usually. These are the questions I ask myself every damn day when I answer these calls. If it wasn't so incredibly profitable for the LD companies, this would have been made illegal long ago.

Slam prevention

[johnlcallaway]

The easiest way to prevent this, in Maine at least, is to notify the phone company that no one except you can change your long distance carrier. After going through a slam, the local phone company let me know that I can freeze my long distance carrier, and only by my personal, verbal approval will they every change my long distance carrier.

Four years later, I get no phone telmarketer calls at all.

I win.......

Re:What does Slamming mean ?

[SigVn]

And this is not illegal.....
really....
This has Got to be illegal.
There is NO WAY you could be liable for the phone bill if you don't agree to the service.

Re:MCI/WorldCom are the master slammers

[A. Nutty]

MCI now calls about bi-weekly with an incredibly tricky double-negative question that is designed to get a slam OK'ed

That sounds like fun! What's the question?

Unlisted Number

[jeanbean]

The way to avoid telemarketers is simple.just have an unlisted number.Then you are subject to maybe one call a month from someone who has a computerized list.Of course, that means your friends can't call,either.Life is a 50/50 set-up.

Welcome to the wonderful world of de-regulation

[beachr]

You are exactly right that it is illegal. But.....every state handles it differently and the rules are not always the rules. We once had fine phone and mail delivery systems.....then the 'profit monster'got in the way. Good Luck

You need a law like Montana...

[fwc]

Here in Montana I LIKE being slammed...

Why?

Basically, If you get slammed you basically don't pay ANY charges for the slamming related changes, PLUS you, by law, don't pay one cent to the company who slammed you.

The great thing is that these companies usually take 2-3 months to send the first bill, and by then I've ended up with at least a couple months of free long distance.

Something Else

[richlb]

One other thing you have to watch out for has nothing to do with someone calling you and asking you to change. It happened to my old roommate. Be careful when you fill out an entry form or participate in a drawing for prizes. A lot of times in the small print they tell you that participation in this contest amounts to agreement to switch your long distance service. Believe me, you could agree to it without even realizing you did. Even someone writing your phone number down on a contest entry form is good enough for them.

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[Fat Rat Bastard]

You actually can (at least with Verizon, for a few $$ a month I'm sure). A friend of mine's line will not accept calls from blocked numbers. A nice recorded message pops up saying "Sorry, the subscriber of this line will not accept...." Pretty neat.

Re:"Cramming" is a big problem too

[CorporateProgrammerD]

I had a "Package" plan from SW Bell, including caller ID, voicemail, and a few other extras for a fixed price.

Also, back in May I had ordered DSL service pending a line check. Well, they checked the line and it was no-go.

This month I get a huge phone bill, about 3 times the cost of the fixed price package. It turns out that they unbundled the services and charged for them separately. Also, I am due to have DSL charges starting next month (October).

After explaining that 1) Yes, I DID have the bundled service, and 2) No, my bill was ALWAYS well below $150, even if the person to whom I was speaking could not find the records to prove it, and 3) I do not now, nor have I ever had DSL service from them, and 4)getting transferred all over to make sure that I wasn't going to be filled for DSL that I didn't have, I got fed up and decided that it was finally easiest to just cancel all but the most basic local phone service while I do some research to find alternatives. I don't like Verizon any better, but they'll probably my only other alternative in this area.

To add insult to injury, as part of their wonderful voicemail system that you must navigate to speak to a real customer service representative, there is an automated option to opt out of their telemarketing. I chose that. I even confirmed it (You can't simply opt out, you must confirm it) I had done this before, when I set up phone service 6 months ago, but you can never opt out too often, or so I thought. (see below)

Within 3 hours of the initial hour long call to cancel most of my phone service I recieved 2 telemarketing calls from them, both of which said "well, If you just opted out a few hours ago, we must not have gotten the update to the list yet." Yeah, right. They use the hours right after you opt out as a "freebie" window of opportunity to besiege you with telemarketing.

The thing is, if they just hadn't gotten greedy in the first place, I would probably have kept them as my local provider for at least the next year or five.

They probably bent the laws.

[iphayd]

Vocal authorization needs two things, you stating your name, and you saying the word "yes." With that, they can change your phone line, because they will change what you are saying "yes" to.

Unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to get your $$ back as most of these are fly by night companies that resell bandwith they buy from the big boys. You probably did not get slammed by the AT&T that we all know of. You probably got slammed by another company that is named "Atlantic Telegraph & Telephone" or something else completely misleading.

The only way to stop this is by putting a pick freeze on your phone line. A pick freeze tells your existing phone company that the only way they are autihorized to surrender your phone line is with your written approval.

Note that this will not stop slammers. It will make your existing phone company 100% liable for your slamming, which means that they will do the grunt work of straightening the mess out, and you will not have to pay the overwhelming rates that most slammers charge.

Negotiate

[plastickiwi]

A little-known fact of the telephone business is that the telemarketers are authorized to offer lower rates than the ones they initially present to you when you when they call. You may have to speak to a supervisor, but you can almost always get them to extend a lower rate. Then, wait for your original provider to call, and do it again. A little dishonesty on your part goes a long way.

ME: Hello. ANNOYING AT&T ASSHOLE: Hello, I'm Cindy, and I'm calling from AT&T to save you some money on your long distance bill.
ME: How much money?
AAA: [trying to stay on-script] Well, sir, we have an offer this month only...
ME: [interrupting] I already pay [AT&T best rate minus the change in my pocket at the time]. Can you beat that?
AAA: [annoyed] We have an offer this month only... ME: [interrupting] I'm not going to switch unless you offer me [previous lie minus 5%] or less. Are you or your supervisor prepared to do that?
AAA: [flustered] Sir, we have the best rates available right now...
ME: [interrupting] ... except for the one I'm already getting. I'm looking at my MCI bill right now, and they're beating the pants off your rate. Really. It's embarassing.
AAA: Let me connect you to my supervisor.
ME: Exxxx-ellent.

When MCI called me the next month, I repeated the above process. They get hip to it after a while, but I got my rates down about 10% overall, and scored several coupons for free long distance minutes, all for the cost of harrassing a telemarketer.

I love this country.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[neema]

Indeed. Phone solicitation is illegal. If the even debate the idea of removing you from their company's list, that itself can be backed by a lawsuit. I actually believe that there are many programs that actually play the message for you, and then hang up. Take a record of one of these calls, record it for reference, and if they do it again, file a grievance. It's absoutely ridicilous for a company to do this.

Recording Conversations

[neema]

I have seen a couple of people comment on how you should mention you are recording your conversation. Don't do this! Phone call recording requires that only one party know about it, so you can do it for court purposes. Which is perfect if you'd really like to milk phone company's for 200 dollars a pop. Who doesn't want a handspring, mp3 player or something else per call. I'll tell them no an infinite amount of time.

PIC freeze, Telephone Consumer Protection Act

[edp]

You should be able to prevent slamming by asking the local phone company to place a PIC freeze on your line. Make sure they freeze both in-state and out-of-state long distance. I say "should" because the last time I removed the freeze, they did not ask for any information that would confirm my identity.

Telling business not to call you, as an earlier respondent mentioned, is covered by the Telephone Consumer Protection Act.

have you been slammed?

[davedoc]

Not only was I slammed by MCI in the early 90's they completely screwed up my credit. After I got everything straigtened out the continued billing me and put me in collections over it. I am currently in a class action against them. http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/000804/ca_girard_.html The FCC has give power to the states to pursue phone slamming. You can see what can be done in your state at http://www.naruc.org/Stateweb.htm Document extensively and stick it to 'um!

Re:Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[sqlrob]

Nope, they are wrong. From the TCPA (emphasis mine):

Recording, disclosure of do-not-call requests. If a person or entity making a telephone solicitation (or on whose behalf a solicitation is made) receives a request from a residential telephone subscriber not to receive calls from that person or entity, the person or entity must record the request and place the subscriber's name and telephone number on the do-not-call list at the time the request is made

Re:What does Slamming mean ?

[xtheunknown]

How did this get moderated to 2, Insightful?

Anyway, slamming is the practice of switching a persons ld service without their knowledge.

As for Al Gore inventing the Internet, he never said that. See this Salon article&l t;/a> for a good run down of what he did say and how he has a decent claim of being instrumental in creating the Internet (or ARPAnet as it was called at the time.)

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[Prior Restraint]

Pretty much, but I think it's a little more accurate to say that it's a long-distance company wrongfully telling your local provider that you wanted to switch to their service.

really wanna mess with the people

[BenTheDewpendent]

When they call askin just say 'i dont think it would do a lot of good cause i am gonna kill my slef when i get off the phone anyways, unless you can change my mind' test there chrises skills... and if you tell them to never call again they are required by law to not call you and you can get 500 for everytime they do after you tell them no more..

Re:really wanna mess with the people

[Cramer]

• and if you tell them to never call again they are required by law to not call you

Well, not exactly... MediaOne and AT&T are the same company. You (Hemos) have a business relationship with this company so the normal anti-telemarketing clauses don't apply.

Personally, I'm more pissed at AT&T calling to offer me -- an existing AT&T LD customer -- AT&T LD service. In the beginning, I would politely inform the drone that I'm already a customer. Now, I yell at them until they cry. (Alright, only one of them ever sounded like she was in tears. Most of them hang up after I start cursing.) It's not like the idiots don't know who they're billing. No, wait; THEY DON'T!

What does Slamming mean ?

[cOdEgUru]

Duh..! I dont know what Slamming means.. Maybe someone could explain.. You live in Boston ?? Gawd!! You suck.. you should be in the bayarea..paying 2000 bucks rent for a one bedroom apartment, walking in to a grocery store with a one mile queue every evening, settling down in front of the TV listening to Al Gore telling you that he invented the Internet with Bill Gates

Re:What does Slamming mean ?

[catscan2000]

Like, oh my gawd! I thought I was the only /. user in SF ;). (/me gets bitch-slapped by all the SF /. users all at once.. d'oh!)

Re:What does Slamming mean ?

[Phexro]

slamming is where the long-distance service on a phone line is changed without the consent of the owner.

e.g. you are signed up for Foo long distance service, and company Bar switches your line to their service instad of Foo's.

i heard a while back that this sort of thing was happening to pay phones as well, since a lot of the newer payphones can take credit cards, and most people don't use 10xxx to select a LD carrier.
--

Re:The Lighter Side...

[Erasmus Darwin]

The version of the story I heard was that 1-800-OPERATER was already assigned to MCI as an internal number. It was only after they started receiving idiot callers left and right on the line that they switched it over to their own version of the service. However, I do fully admit to not doing any research into how much of the story is true and how much is urban legend. But it's worth noting that, unlike domain-name typos, it's quite plausibly for similar phone numbers to already be in use -- you're mapping to a much smaller domain where it's rather easy to get the telephone equivilant of salshdot.org, especially when you consider the fact that the entire 800-number space has already been filled up.

Hemos, try this..

[steveargonman]

First of all, if they changed your provider without your consent (which sounds like what they did, right?) then by all means that is illegal. Also, I know with USWest/QWest they have an available option (which is free I think..) and it basically stops your Long Distance provider from being changed until you tell Qwest YOURSELF that you're ok with it..

I would suggest calling your local carrier up and asking if they offer that same sort of protection, as it seems to work great.

Re:Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[Desdinova77]

you said... "They suggest sending your info to the Direct Marketing Association indicating you don't want calls from member companies. I remain skeptical of this... " I worked for a company that was a DMA memeber we did direct mailings and we ran *every* list through the supplied filter. There were 2 reasons for us to do this 1) Not doing could result in losing memebership in the DMA who provide some nice perks/leads etc for members. 2) It made sence not to waste the postage on people who had taken the time to write to get thier names off the list. The odds of them buying because of the mailing was much smaller than the chance they would get a negitive impression of our clients. My point is the DMA lists can be helpful.

Say stupid stuff

[Mike1024]

Hey,

What I reccommend in situations like this is to talk to callers whenever possible. Try to take up as much of thier time as you can without buying anything. If they try to push thier shit on you, respond with an unreasonable request, like "Oh, by the way, does your package include free, unlinited broadband internet access?" or "I'll buy it on the condition that you agree to give me $15,000 every month for life". After you have used up as much time as possible, tell them you never had any intention of buying and ask to be removed from thier call list, otherwise you will unsubscribe from thier service.

Or you could just hang up.

Michael

...another comment from Michael Tandy.

Thought you could tell the phone company....

[gscott]

with a phone call that you did not wish to have your lines changed unless someone spoke with you and you gave verbal permission to change a service. Somewhat like opting out of being slammed. Could be incorrect but after being slammed once, I think this was how I dealt with it. The worst part is that you never really know you have been slammed till you get your bill and the other company has charges on it. But when the slammers are the big guys like AT&T, what can you do?

Re:Thought you could tell the phone company....

[igjeff]

Yes...its called a PIC restriction. It doesn't make slamming impossible, but it does make the l/d companies jump through more hoops to do it. Though it will likely make you jump through more hoops if you want to change your l/d service legitimately as well.

Call your local telco and tell them that you want to put a PIC restriction on your line (after you get it changed back to MCI Worldcom), and they should do that, it shouldn't cost you anything, and it *should* make it harder to get slammed again, even for AT&T which now owns your local telco.

I mentioned this in another post, but definitely call the state utilities commission (PUC), they *will* take action on this...even with the big guys like AT&T.

If AT&T slams you again, you probably have an even *better* case against them in the PUC since it indicates that its likely that the local telco is treating AT&T more favourably than other l/d companies which is a *BIG* no-no.

Jeff

Re:Thought you could tell the phone company....

[mindstrm]

You can do what I did: not pay the bill, and inform whatever consumer rights agency you know of.

Simply put, if I signed up with Company A, and for some reason company B is doing my LD, how is it my problem?

Re:Thought you could tell the phone company....

[StenD]

with a phone call that you did not wish to have your lines changed unless someone spoke with you and you gave verbal permission to change a service.

The problem with this is that it was his local phone company which did the slamming. MediaOne is now AT&T Broadband, and his long distance was changed to AT&T.

Re:Thought you could tell the phone company....

[PacketMaster]

You have to provide verbal and/or written permission. When I was with Qwest not too long ago, I actually had to call a third-party number and verify my information and to speak on recorded record that I was allowing Qwest to change my long distance service. After awhile I got a better deal with Cable & Wireless through my company and switched but there I had to fax them a sheet that gave permission to change my long distance. You can call your AG's office, but I'd actually start with your state's public utilities commission since AT&T/MediaOne is providing your actual phone line.

Re:Thought you could tell the phone company....

[gfxguy]

Yes, but they haven't merged that fast. Not only that, but AT&T is not the company calling - it's someone who claims they represent AT&T, but it's a telemarketing company. They get credit for everyone they switch to whomever they are working for.

Not only that, but asking for a "freeze" on your account (the local company won't change it without your permission) doesn't mean they are allowed to switch it without your permission just because they are now that company. It's still wrong, although the local companies do this as a service and I don't think they are responsible if something slips through the cracks.

To further complicate the issue, you can't tell a company you have a business relationship with to put you on their don't call list. Since MediaOne=AT&T, he can't tell AT&T not to call. Well, he can, but I don't think he can sue if they do. Best bet is to switch local phone companies, switch back to MCI, tell the local phone company to freeze the account.

I've been slammed a lot worse than this, so I've dealt with it before. The worst was getting slammed, changing back, getting slammed again, switching back (the operator at that time finally told me about freezing the account), so I froze the account. Then I moved and transferred my service - but it was a new number, so the freeze didn't carry over. Slammed again (same company all three times - qwest). I refused to pay. "but we made you connections!", "But I never authorized you to make the connections - I'll pay my company, not you - I'll throw it out on the street, donate it to charity, flush it down the toilet - but you don't get one penny."

After months of "review" I finally won.
----------

Slammed?

[hound]

I don't know about Boston, but here (Arizona) you can instruct your local provider to leave your long distance service alone, unless you give your explicit consent to the local provider to change it. It seems the long distance market is so competitive that all of the providers are engaged in the practice of slamming these days...

This is what you have to do

[Ender7A]

I have been slammed a LOT before I found out what to do. A while back I kept getting calls from one phone company or another trying to get me to go with them. I kept telling them that I WAS NOT INTERESTED but they kept calling and calling and calling. It got so bad that they would call me once in the morning, Once in the afternoon and once at night everynight for WEEKS! I told them to stop calling me but they would not LISTEN. I was at my whits end when I just happened to tell a friend one day about it and he told me that my name was on a special call list that companies sell to each other(or keep if I ever used them) and that I had to tell them that I WANT to be removed from that list. I was a little skeptical about that because I have told the phone company not to call me but he said that unless I TELL THEM to REMOVE my name from THAT LIST it will just be passed from one worker to another. So when I got the call the next time, I told them that I wasn't interested and I wished to be removed from the calling list. They said fine and just asked if I was sure about it and I said yes. After that they stopped calling. I still get hasled once a year(they renew the list every year) but I just tell them to remove my name from the list and thats that.

I read it!

[Phokus]

Shows how gay i am huh? :P

Re:How I Got the Phone Company To Stop Calling Me

[Rho17]

Keep a police whistle by the phone. After a couple of days, when they keep calling, answer it, make sure it's them, then blow the whistle. They don't call back.

Nine magic words:

[jon323456]

"Please add me to your do not call list." AT&T and any other telemarketer will take you off their list.

idontcare

[sulli]

True story. The majors sued, though, and I think they were forced to drop it.

Re:AT&T is Evil!

[GungaDan]

I think I see a pattern, here. I, too, was slammed by AT&T after signing up for Worldnet internet access in late 1998. Eventually these AT&T bills started showing up, and I wrote them repeatedly to tell them they were not my phone company. Finally, a year and a half and 2 states later, I got a letter from their collections agency (read: kneebreakers) claiming that I owed them some absurd amount. This is the point at which the law turns to favor the consumer. NEVER let a collection notice go by without replying. When you tell them (within one month of receipt) that their charges are in error, they are legally prohibited from contacting you by phone or in person (!) until the matter has been researched and a conclusion reached as to the validity of the charges. If they are found to be valid, then all protections are off and you are liable to have your kneecaps busted if you don't either hire a law-talker or pay up. If you never hear back (which has been the case with AT&T's nonsense), you win. Moral of the story - AT&T linguates my anus.

Re:Don't blame the telemarketers

[Denial of Service]

Yep, Godwinn's Law alert. This thread is done.

---

blood AT&T and bloody Us phone services =(

[Invurt]

I moved tot his country about 3 months ago..on ordering my phone line to be conencted at home, i was enve rtold that i had to call AT&T or someone by my local company to set up a long distance account with them. Nobody told me that i had to do that - nobody, nor did i have any idea. Back home in australia, you get connected, and you get everything in the one package....yes, perhaps i was naive, but the long and the short of it ? AT&T have charged me ******$3******* a minute pers call back home, what should of bene a $200 is now a $1200 bill...i am crushed and devasted at this, im jsut young man ! I jstu moved here, why didnt my local company tell me ??? As far as I am concerned,th ere is NOTHING good about any of your phone companies =9 *sigh* ...does anyone know if there is any way to appeal this kind of things? compassionate grounds (yeah right,.,..)

Re:blood AT&T and bloody Us phone services =(

[A coward on a mouse]

There is nothing you can do about the charges already on your bill, but I do know that you can get a special deal on international long distance. I have family in Ukraine and had been paying over $3/min for those calls. I switched to Sprint and got a special rate for calls to Ukraine of $0.34. Good luck.

slammed by AT&T?

[p4r4d0x]

Hmm...ironic that a few years ago MCI was the one who slammed me while I was with AT&T...


__

Re:slammed by AT&T?

[Abwehr]

It's not just the long distance carriers. The cellular/wireless industry is just as guilty. I actually had to go to court once to get Primeco to stop billing me for a pre-paid wireless account I never asked for.

Re:slammed by AT&T?

[slickwillie]

The slamming LD co. has to pay for the switch both times and I believe any calls billed by the slamming LD co. can be disputed successfully.

So why not sieze the opportunity? Call everyone you know in a foreign country and talk for hours. Call Hong Kong information and ask silly questions. Prank call Australia. Do this for a month. Then call the phone company and say you would like to go back to the original LD company, and oh by the way, you are not liable for these calls. If everyone did this, slamming would stop.

Re:slammed by AT&T?

[Prior Restraint]

Actualy, i'm pretty sure that its your local phone company that does the slamming, not the long distance...

That's debatable. I worked for a long-distance firm last year, and the way it was explained to me was that the long-distance carrier (LDC) calls up the local carrier (LC) and asks to change the registered LDC for a given customer. It then becomes the LC's job to update their records, and report back to the LDC. While I agree the LC should be a little more diligent in verifying these claims, the law says that it's the LDC who is liable for slamming.

(Bear in mind that "LC" and "LDC" are not formal acronyms to my knowledge. IIRC, we used "local service provider" (LSP) in place of "LC", and never really referred to any LDP other than ourselves.)

Re:I've been Slammed, too.

[castrove]

Me too and several times. I went to the FCC website and submitted a complaint through them. It took several months but I was refunded all the charges related to all the times that Qwest comitted slamming with my account. I was even refunded for the phone calls made while my account was changed (without my consent). So to anybody going trough this, I say go through the FCC. This will make the companies pay fines for doing this. It may also be good to put a "frezze" on the account so that companies can't switch it without your authorization.

It happened to me to

[castrove]

I have gone through the same problem as you did. I went on vacation and when I came back my long distance service was changed without my authorization from AT&T to Qwest. This is common practice and all phone companies do it all the time. As a matter of fact I was a victicm of this several times. Finally, I got tired of it and took more drastic measures. I went to the FCC website (they are the ones that regulate phone companies) and submited a formal complaint about the phone slamming (they have an on-line form your can fill to submit your complain). It took quite some time (several months) but at the end I was awarded full credit for all the charges they made me. I was even credited for the phone calls I made with the other long distance company (I claimed those were illgal because I didn't know they were made with Qwest instead of AT&T). I suggest you do the same. I don't remeber the website but it should not be too difficult to find, make a search for FCC or Federal Communications Commsion. When you make the complaint make sure you tell them if you have contacted the respective companies to solve the problem and give as much detail as you can. Also make sure you include the amount of money you think the other phone company owes you (charge for changing long distance company, any phone call made during the switch, any monthly fees, etc). After that make sure you put a "frezee" on your account so it can't be changed without your authorization. By the way, my long distance company is now MCI as well. cheers, Jorge

AT&T Arghhhhh

[Highlordexecutioner]

I work for an ISP in an area where Bell Atlantic is one of the local carriers. Outside the county you can have an extended local calling area for around 15 bucks a month. AT&T was involved in this somehow and made our customers pay long distance charges. For what should have been a local call. Only thing was is AT&T told them it was our fault. That was not a happy month for us. You may try calling the FCC, I think they have a # for unfair practices (sorry I dont have it handy).

AT&T Sucks

[GameGuy]

I stopped doing business with them over 6 years ago due to thier treatment of me. Last time they called me, I got completely rude (probably more so than necessary) demanding they remove me from there calling lists and never bother me again.

Don't know how well it will work, but they haven't called in a while. Maybe we should start an AT&T boycott.....

Re:AT&T Sucks

[A coward on a mouse]

I recently switched to Sprint and am still getting calls from them to switch. What with all the slamming going on out there, maybe they assume you've been slammed and are trying to get you back.

FCC's TCPA(1992)

[jimmie_p]

Here is the FCC's page about dealing with solicitors: http://www.fcc.gov/ccb/consumer_news/unsolici.html That should at least help you take care of AT&T. I think that they have a rule in the application for becoming a telemarketer that you must have already sold your soul to Satan. Then I bet you have to go through a six-week training course on the basics of evil and how to use it in your calls.

Illegality of soliciting callers...

[Carik]

First off, they're not allowed to change your service without your consent.

Secondly, they're legally required to stop calling you if you ask. My advice is ask them politely once to stop calling you, then tell them if they don't take you off their phone lists *WHILE YOU'RE ON THE PHONE* you're going to call a lawyer, and sue. They'll do it, 'cause you'd win. No question. They're required by law to do it, if they break the law, they have no case. I actually met someone who took AT&T to court, and won. (Case never got to court...AT&T settled personally when his lawyer called them up. Like I said... they've got no case.)

Simple way to get telemarketers...

[VivianC]

Here is a simple way to screw over telemarketers:
Let them start their speech. Once you hear what the product is, interrupt them and say that you are very interested but that your wife (husband, roommate, ect) is in charge of that, but you will put them on the line. Leave the phone off the hook for the next 15-20 minutes.

This will blow their call per hour average and cost them money. You can even check back every minute or two and see how long they hang on. Make a little game of it. You'll find yourself off a few lists pretty quick!


Viv
-----------
I Use Napster. I use DeCSS. I buy over $1000 a year in CD/DVDs.

AT&T LD is the WORST.....

[jsimon12]

I got slammed by AT&T myself, so I called up my phone company and switched back to MCI and called AT&T to cancel and complain. AT&T said that it would be taken care of. Well 3 months later I get a bill from AT&T stating that I needed to pay or they would turn it over to a collection agencey. So I called up AT&T and they credited me and said it was canceled for sure this time. So 3 months later I get another set of bills, I call AT&T and the operator is downright rude calling me an idiot for not switching off my service properly and saying she could do anything. By then I was ready to kill so I asked for her mananger and then she hung up on me. So I called back, got someone else, got a manager and compained about what the previous operator did and the charges and explained the whole story, he said it would be taken care of and the woman would be repremanded. After this I wrote a lengthy letter to AT&T LD's customer service and a VP of CS (course to this day they have never replied). Well 3 months later I get another bill, I go through the whole thing, they say it is fixed, my local phone company has no idea where AT&T is getting this, since they have me listed as MCI, so I figure its fixed (3's the charm right?). Well 2 months later I move to another city, about 2 months after that I get a forwarded letter to my old address from AT&T, stateing that I have to pay my bill (which as the last 3 times amounts to 3 dollars in FCC charges) or they will turn it over to a collection agenecy. I called AT&T, totally pissed, and get a manager immediatly, and tell him the whole story, he has the nerve to question me, so I talk to his boss, this guy wanted me to send in proof that I had been with MCI for the last year, so I call MCI and give them the name and number of the AT&T manager, the MCI manager says he will fix it, and you know what, he did, AT&T doesn't bug me any more, and that AT&T manager called back to apologize, pretty cool.

OK so no one's probably going to read this...

[King of the World]

But regardless, the thing all these spam phone gits fear is bad publicity. So lie. Your brother is a columnist at the New York Times. Your sister works at the mayors office. Your Daddy (who's daddy?) owns CBS. A user on your site is the actual King of the World (ph33r me!).

Anyway, they're messing with someone pretty powerful and they should just go away if they know what's best for them. Get the business name out of them, the caller's name, and makes threats. Don't be angry, be firm, and it's fun and you get to watch ants scamper.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[baldeep]

I think mileage with Verizon may vary based on which of its companies you signed up with. I went to what was Airtouch, and my service is great. It's the only company that gets cell reception at my residence, and I haven't had a problem with the service yet (except occasionally the WAP browser doesn't work when I'm travelling).

technology is THE answer

[jfk3]

I don't even want my phone to ring unless I've "approved" it. I don't think its far away. I have caller ID info on my computer from the modem. I have a LAN. I just need to pull the caller ID info into a server, setup clients, do a database look up, only let calls thru that are approved. I know I can buy this stuff, but I'm looking for Open Source/Linux stuff. "Hello, your number is not recognized. Please enter your passcode or hang-up.... Click."

Re:technology is THE answer

[jfk3]

Thanks for the tip. It was a bear, but I finally got it working. There were a couple steps that weren't documented and weren't obvious to a Python newbie. You deserve a karma point. Now I just need to disconnect all the phone ringers, add a DB lookup and I'm in business.

Stop Slams DEAD

[Technician]

A little known fact to stop slamming. A form can be filled out with your current carrier that basicaly says, No Signature, No Change. Get one, Sign one. If you are slammed, MCI does the work for you. They ask to see the signature. A voice call can not be used to change service! It has saved me hastles with my provider. I have never been slammed. My LD carrier filled me in on this useful tidbit.

You should commend MCI

[retinaburn]

No one will read this but I have free time at work (the last 2 weeks) so I'll give my 2 cents.
MCI has saved your bacon by calling to confirm you actually wanted to switch. The hassles would have been endless if AT&T had gotten a chance to bill you, like a steel non-recyclable beartrap on your ass.
So instead of paying money for a lawyer (read: bottom-feeder) or paying alot of money for a good lawyer (read: bottom-feeder-licker) commend MCI. Send them a present, a /. t-shirt perhaps to the operator...or give them money. Make random long-distance phone calls to people in far off places. Try to make a marked increase in their revenues.

"I am the messiah"
-----Dan Bern

"Slamming" Laws

[mr.nicholas]

It is quite illegal for any telecommunications provider to switch your service without consent. More information can be found at (pdf file).

• http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factshee ts/slamming.pdf .

Similar thing

[cronack]

happened to me. I used to have Qwest as my LD provider. My rates were good; I was satisfied with my service. Then, my roommate gets a bill in his name from Sprint for LD service. They (Sprint) had switched the LD service from Qwest under my name to Sprint under my roommates name without my permission. The local and LD services had both been in my name. How can they do that? Phone companies fscking suck. I have since terminated all my LD service and use my cell since LD is "free" (as in beer).

I hereby propose a boycott on all LD companies! Call everyone you know and tell them!

Hope this never happens with DSL.

[AFCArchvile]

Sure, the login system kinda prevents it, but think: Many telecom companies have found some loophole around security measures before. I don't have any specific examples, because, thankfully, I've never experienced such things. But is this freedom of service provider choice opening up a new devilish playground for the big guys to slam every customer they can?

Actually, I can think of one instance where my family got slammed: Cable (TV, not Internet; I use DSL). The MediaOne guy walked in with this huge digital cable box. Great picture and everything, but the $80 cable bill and the intermittent mosaic distortion incidents on the movie channels? UGHHHH!!! Needless to say, we promptly got our trusty analog box back, and are doing fine with 87 channels and nothing on.

Changing long distance can be fun!

[SirYakksALot]

I once got a call from AT they wanted to change me to their LD.

Well, they weren't really calling me personally, intentionally. They were calling the emergency phone mounted in an elevator. In a college dorm.

"Why certainly, I'd like to switch. And I'd like to place a call to Siberia too, right now."

slamming problem with a happy outcome

[dan501]

I work for a small company. But our business is almost exclusively phone/internet based.

My company has an ongoing history of bad telco relations.

We had a problem with being slammed by some no-name long distance carrier. They took our lines, and then when we refused to pay them, they refused to relinquish control of our lines. At one point, they even cut off our long distance phone service for a week or so because of it.

We sued them - claiming that we lost good will from customers and lost sales because our phones weren't working and for a few months after that we got phone calls with questions like "I thought you guys were out of businesS". We ended up settling for a decent sum. Yay good guys.

We are currently embroiled in a non-slamming conflict with none other than AT&T. They are our local and long distance provider.
Their salesman came out to our office a long time ago and quoted us all sorts of prices and zones and assorted salesman crap. Then after a while we noticed our phone bills were higher than they should have been. We talked to their billing guys and they agreed that we were paying the wrong amount. At that point we were still paying the bills and we spent a couple of months with their billing department trying to straighten it all out. After a while, we said screw it and stopped paying the bills. We told them the whole time that we'd pay it as soon as they sent us a bill with the rates we were quoted.

That's still going on! Every once in a while we get a call from their collection people saying we owe them some $30,000. We always tell them the same story about paying it when they pull their head out of their ass. The collection guy goes away "to check on it" and we never hear from him again.

I can't wait to see how this turns out... phone companies suck. All of them.

Try Privacy Manager (if available)

[SpookyGuru]

After getting slammed by Qwest and receiving an average of about 6 telemarketer calls a day, I finally gave in and got Ameritech's Privacy Manager.

I know it's a rip off, $3.95 a month to block calls from people who Ameritech sold your name to, but it's worth it not to be called at 8:30 in the morning on a weekend. Which brings up the point of why they can call that early....

Re:How rich are you, -Ben?

[Drakantus]

Eh, incorrect. Public defenders are, as the name implies, for _defending_. They only apply if you are charged with a crime. On the other hand, there are in some places free legal services for the poor, however they aren't very usefull. At the time I was making $1200/month. Rent where I live is $800, my car insurance is $100 and my car payment is $300. Aparently, I didn't qualify for the free legal aid. At $1200/month I was making way too much money.

Slamming is Illegal for AT&T not anyone else.

[Kris.Felscher]

Actually, years ago, I used to work for AT&T long distance. AT&T due to its multiple divestitures is prohibited from slamming people. MCI, Sprint and the other long distance companies are allowed to slam you.

Another practice all of them use are contests to trick you into using their service. Sometimes if you enter a raffle, or a contest, the fine print tells you that by entering, you agree to use X company's long distance service. Technically it's not slamming, but it's still unethical.

I would call the attorney general, just because, a complaint is a complaint. You may have signed up for AT&T without knowing it though.

Kris Felscher

Re:Hmm...

[dancentral]

It's simply rediculous that it's not that easy.

I spent a year one summer as a TOPS Operator for US West. We certainly did not have access to that sort of information, as we repeatedly told callers. 'twould be an invasion of the caller's privacy: just because you say the last call was harassing doesn't mean that it was. If you had decided to track down that person and do something, it was Us The Phone Company who would be held liable for creating the situation.

This was in the days when Caller ID was still in the test phase. I'm sure the excuse is different now.

That was a fun job, except for those damn callers. I sure did learn a few interesting things that were put to good use in my (cough) later endeavours.

Re:Just Don't Sign Up for Long Distance

[dancentral]

Last time I got a phone line I explicitly told the operator that I did not want to sign up for a long distance provider...

I tried that with US (Q)West when I had phone service turned on at my new place last month.

I was promptly informed that there would be a monthly charge for not having a long distance company associated with my phone bill.

By the way, Qwest wants state regulators to give them permission to raise local rates without having to get utility comission approval first. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Re:FTC regs lack bite

[dancentral]

Telcos wouldn't participate in slamming if they lost money at it.

I'm the last one to defend the telcos, but in this case I think that most of the established companies are getting a bad rap.

Telemarketing is typically contracted out to one or more companies that specialize in bothering people during dinner. These companies are usually less than ethical -- that's no small surprise since telemarketers (the owners, operators, and managers) occupy the lowest spot on the marketing food chain.

These companies can't even be honest to their own employees. One of the local businesses out here does telemarketing work for a number of companies, but primarily MCI. They're so desperate for people they advertise open positions (go figure that there's always an open position at a telemarketing firm) on local television. The commercials don't mention the name of the company -- they just talk about how fun it is "to work for MCI."

Once telcos realize they'll take it in the shorts, they'll drop slamming like the bad habit it is.

Well, in a way they did. Now the fines become Someone Else's Problem.

Re:Fav way to get the callers off my back

[dancentral]

(p)hone Companies: "No I'm sorry, I don't have any friends that have phones, I don't need any long distance calling plans."

Too much work. Just tell the caller that you don't have a phone.

The Public Service Commission

[chaboud]

On every occasion that Ameritech/MCI/AT&T/the guy next door's mom have had to screw me, I have merely called the Public Service Commission in my area. You merely explain your problem to the helpful people at the PSC, and they go to bat for you.

By "go to bat," I mean, bludgeon the offending party.

Each time (4 times) that I have had trouble with a phone company, I have called the PSC. Within one-half hour, I was treated to bounitful apologies from the manager of the company in question. Of course, any dispute over money fell in my favor each time.

It's probably worth giving the PSC a try.

Re:It's illegal, but not enough

[andyfsu99]

When Spring slammed me, I asked them to remove the charges I had accrued during my brief, unwelcome internment with Sprint long distance. To their credit, they did. Perhaps you just have to ask the right person the right question. Also, as some have pointed out, the slamming may be the result of a rogue telemarketer, and the company may try to do everything in its power to correct the situation.

hmm...

[Captain Cholo]

I do believe that you can tell them to take you off of their list and they will stop calling you. It's illegal to continue slamming you, if you do not desire their service. I live in Boston, and I told them to shove off (in much politer ways) and I haven't talked to a single phone rep since (1 month!). There is another trick: Listen closely to the phone after you pick up. If there is an unusually long pause: Hang up. This means they are patching you through to one of those annoying reps. I told my roommates to do this and we haven't had to many drawn out conversations with sale reps / annoying phone peeps. Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents. Capt. Cholo

Re:Hmm...

[kevlar]

No. The operator does not have access to that information.

MCI/WorldCom are the master slammers

[Peter Allan]

I used to have MCI, but they charged me $90 for a 30 minute Calling Card call from the Caribbean because I was not on the correct plan. They declined a chance to adjust this so I switched to another carrier.

MCI now calls about bi-weekly with an incredibly tricky double-negative question that is designed to get a slam OK'ed. So far I've kept from being slammed, but if someone else answers here they may succeed.

Maybe AT&T has to do it just to stay even.

I also tried to put a "freeze" on any future slam, but I gave up after Verizon's run-around. They claimed that they couldn't reach the third-party verifier that is required to OK the freeze.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Ultimo]

They're not invading your privacy. Invading your privacy would be tapping your phone, breaking into your house and checking shit out, monitoring your internet activity, etc.
Calling somebody on the phone is not an invasion of privacy.

Everyone has a choice of what kind of job they want to have.

Oh? Really? So everybody has infinite skills in infinite fields, and can get whatever job they want at any time? I wasn't aware of that... Guess now that I know that, I'm gonna go out and be a nuclear physicist... You've obviously never had to worry about how your're going to pay your next month's rent, had to take a third (or fourth) job, or stepped out of your 6-figure average posh motherfucking neightborhood, have you?
It's people like you that keep minimum wage down, social security low, and the unemployment rate high! If you idiots would pull your heads out of your fucking gilt assholes, and actually vote for some of these affirmitive action/social security/minimum wage increase bills, you wouldn't have to pay so many fucking taxes, because the lower class would be able to support themselves, and not have to take shitty jobs as telemarketers!
When people have to fight for their next meal, they do not have morals. They don't give a shit about you, or your fucking dinnertime, because they don't GET a dinnertime. They get to drive through mcdonalds on their way to their third shift job, if they even have a car. Chances are, they ride the bus, and might be lucky to have an extra 3 minutes that they can run in and pick up a burger between busses.
Some of us don't get SHIT from our parents. Some of us get DEBT from our parents. That's what I got. I'm paying off my father's fucking debts because he couldn't get a job because he didn't have millionair parents to pay his fucking way through princeton, and because he didn't graduate high school because he had to get 2 jobs to try and support his family during his sophomore year.
Telemarketing jobs pay pretty damn well, up to $15 an hour, so when people get to choose between making $5.20 at jack in the box, coming home smelling like grease every night, and making $15 at a telemarketing firm, what the fuck do you think they're going to do? Say "oh, no, I'd have to interrupt people's dinner; I can't do that..."? If you think that, then get your head out of your ass, because people do NOT think that way.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Ultimo]

No, it wouldn't be an invasion of my privacy if you knocked on my door. That'd just be annoying
My sex life is my personal business, and if you compiled a database of my condom-buying habits, that would be an invasion of my privacy, and I'd be pissed, especially if you came knocking on my door saying "Hello, I see that in the past, you have bought Trojan Cherry-flavored ribbed glow-in-the-dark condoms, and BOY do I have a deal for you! I'd like to start by asking you, have you ever tried Strawberry? That's my personal favorite...", and I would be inclined to slam the door in your face. I wouldn't say anything, I wouldn't yell, or cuss at you, I'd just slam the door, like I hang up on telemarketers once I figure out they're telemarketers.
Actually, I just moved to Salt Lake City, heart of Mormon country, so I'm very cautious as to who I'll open my door for. There are 3 people on that list. My S.O. (who has a key anyway), my S.O.'s mother, and postal delivery-people. Well, apartment management/repairpeople, etc., too, if they ask nice. Anyone else, and I'm not home, because they're probably missionaries.
I know that companies do this, and take down your name and address at any chance that they can, which is why when I went to get my CueCat, I made up an address that has parts of my old high school, old house, and old office addresses with a made-up name... If you want that, here 'tis...
Pat McGregor
400 36th Ave
Bellevue, WA 98005

The moral: Never give your real information to anybody you don't absolutely know you can trust. Even your name. I've got a credit card in another name so I can avoid my name/address being spread around like a religious pamphlet...

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Ultimo]

Oh, I haven't inherited it yet, and I'm doing my best NOT to... If he dies with that debt hanging over his head, it'll be split between my brother and I. Then I'll have my brother (older) to take care of, the aspiring "starving musician".
I pretty much have to take care of it now because his entire family, my mother, and most of her family are breathing down my neck because I'm the smart one that "got lucky" and got a good job, so I should take care of him. True, he did raise me, and provided what he could, but I shouldn't have to support him like this, but if I didn't, I'd have this plus the accrued interest once he died.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[A coward on a mouse]

IIRC and IANAL, it's a $5000 fine for continuing to call after you have told them to remove you from their list. To be sure you can prove that you told them to remove you from the list, record the conversation in which you tell them to remove you from their list and take note of the date and time. It's a good idea to get the person on the other end of the line to say who they're with while you're recording. Then, record any additional calls, also noting date and time.

I still prefer to just mess with them. My favorite is to just pretend the earpiece on my phone is broken. They hate that!

AT&T is Evil!

[codewolf]

A few years back I used AT&T worldnet as my internet access, they double billed me and I called to have the matter resolved. After 8 hours, yes, seriously 8 hours of being transferred around, the matter was resolved. Well I soon learned that they had also switched my long and local billing over to them (slammed!).
I called and told them that since I had not asked for them to do that (and in fact had told them I did NOT want their phone service...), I'd like my phone service switched back. They refused to do it, claiming that only I could do that. Heh, and they have no problem cancelling my old service?
I spent 3 days without phone service because the local phone company couldn't get it restored right away.

How to solve this problem? Call your local phone company (or whoever you use), and ask them to only allow a switch over if you notify them in writing. I've never been slammed since then.

Unfortunately, AT&T just bought my local cable company......

Move again?

[Swift Kick]

Heh, just kidding....
I live in NJ. Bell Atlantic/Verizon is my provider. For LD, I use AT&T. Works alright, since I rarely make LD calls.
I'd file a complaint with the Consumer Protection Agency or the Better Business Bureau, if they really got under my skin... other than that, most of the time I can't be bothered with little things like paying 1 or 2 cents more/min.

www.VerizonEatsPoop.com

[AlexanderU]

All phone companies are, for the most part horrible, especially Verizon. They've only been in business since May and already 87,000 of their workers struck and they've acquired a good deal of infamy resulting from their apathy and incompetence. Take a look at http://www.VerizonEatsPoop.com and voice your own grievances against Verizon for all to see.

Best, Alexander

Thr *real* per minute costs of long distance=$0.01

[Anonymous Coward]

$0.01? Nope. Not even that. Less than one cent per minute. The current rates, 9, 10, 15, 22 cents per minute that telcos still soak out of customers is done strictly out of cenvention. The costs in increasing communication bandwidth to what it is today has long since been paid up. Now they bill us high rates because we're already "used to that rate".

Why do you think 3rd party companies can buy bandwidth from AT&T and turn around and resell LD service for 5 and 6 cents per minute? While AT&T still charges my Grandma, on the "basic" plan, $0.22/minute for LD? (She doesn't care because she hardly makes LD calls)

The answer is that bandwidth today is DIRT CHEAP. And the stupid consumer is happy so long as rates aren't going up. It's like if world oil markets dropped to $3/barrel while the at the pump prices went to $0.99. Stupid consumers would praise this as fantastically great when they're actually being ripped off blind.

Wek, FUCK AT&T. I have no LD carrier on my line. When I need one, I go to whatever 10-10 carrier is cheaper today. What? Your "promotional period" ended? Bye bye!

Since the AT&T breakup, yeah, we got rid of the monopoly. Woo hoo! But instead what we got in return was the formation of a price fixing, OPEC style cartel. Woo hoo indeed. Hey, DOJ! Quit wasting time on Microsoft, have a committee determine the real cost of a minute of LD and make that data public. See the real Mob leaders shit their pants in anger.

Cashed checks

[KMSelf]

I've also had several unpleasent AT&T experiences, but this one's kind of fun.

First, my local carrier has my long-distance service locked down. Can't be changed without a written authorization on my part. Contact your local phone company for info.

ATT has been running a promotional offer in which they enclose a check for $40 and request you sign the back, which is a contract to switch carriers. I cross out the contract, write "FOR DEPOSIT ONLY, NOT A CONTRACT" on the check, and deposit it. Twice this summer. Makes up for 7 minutes of hotel bills that ran me $50 last winter.

A check is a check is a check is a check. A rebate is a rebate. These were not rebates. ATT called one time to request a service change, I told them politely to engage in an act of self-indulgence.

I'm not recommending the tactic, but it worked for me.

What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?

Say "Take me off your list now"

[Surazal]

They are required by law to do so. If they call you again, I believe you can do nasty damage to them in the form of a lawsuit. Anybody got more info on this?

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[warpeightbot]

The AC has it wrong.

• #1 (listed) should be the modem
• #2 should be the fax
• #3 answered as voice (or routed by the voicemail modem for processing as a primary number)
• #4 should be processed likewise, only at a different priority, greater or lesser, your choice.

(funky ring signal)
Quick, Robin, it's the Batphone!

Oh, I never did say, why answer first as a modem rather than a fax? The odds of those scrooey telemarketers figuring out you're a fax and bombing it with junk (a violation of 47 USC 227, but they don't care) are a lot worse than some ev1L h@X0r d00d breaking into your properly secured (you ARE using 255-character MD5 passwords, aren't you?) Linux or OpenBSD box with the modem....

--
Geek by nature.
Linux by choice.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[ErikZ]

From talking to a friend of mine who worked for a telemarketing office that got zinged by this. "We never kept a 'Do not call' list. We only had one guy actually do this to us. He got the 500$. He recorded the conversation and in Illinois that was legal." Later Erik Z

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[AntiNorm]

They are required by law to do so. If they call you again, I believe you can do nasty damage to them in the form of a lawsuit. Anybody got more info on this?

Say "Please put me on your do-not-call list." Then if they call you again, they are liable for $500 per violation. See the Telephone Consumer Protection Act.

=================================

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[Prior Restraint]

Also, the most you're going to get for a single violation (calling back, not slamming) is five hundred dollars. AT&T will either consider that a trifle, or balk and force you to prove that you asked to be put on their "do not call" list.

Slamming is definitely illegal, and given how much the FCC enjoys regulating the phone industry, it sounds like something they would find most interesting. Also, you may wish to call MediaOne and see if they offer some kind of "anti-slamming" protection. My local carrier is Ameritech (owned by SBC), and set me up (notice the double entendre). Now my long-distace carrier can't be changed unless Ameritech gets a signature from me!

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeing that I've been paying USWest for distinctive ringing for a while now, I recently took some advice given in a previous /. telemarketing column. I'm now set up so that:

1. The main number gets picked up by the fax-modem as a fax.
2. Auxiliary number 1 gets picked up by the modem as a modem.
3. Auxiliary number 2 is assumed voice.
4. Auxiliary number 3 is reserved for future use.

Since none of the auxiliary numbers are published, except to those who need to know, the number on the lists is the fax one. Supposedly, when the war-diallers get the fax tones, the number is quietly removed from the lists, which are then shared amongst the marketers. It really is amazing how the number of unknown name/unknown number telemarketer giveaway calls on the CID box have gone down recently. The beauty of it is, I don't even have to talk to them to tell them to put me on the do not call list.

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[gscott]

Here is a link to a (gasp!!) Windows program (also available for Mac) that can help with Telemarketers. I am willing to bet someone can write the same thing for *nix pretty quick. http://www.verinet.com/~geoff/Enigma/

Re:Say "Take me off your list now"

[waynem77]

A while ago, when I was living with a couple of friends and using Sprint, MCI was pestering us constantly. We used to get at least one call per night from them, sometimes more. Asking them politely to stop calling us did nothing.

One day my roommate got fed up. The next time MCI called, he explained to them, "I do not want to switch to MCI. I will never switch to MCI. If MCI were the last long-distance company on earth, I would write all my messages down on paper and send them by pony express."

They stopped calling after that. I don't know exactly what the moral of this little experience is.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Danse]

No, you moron. Not having credit cards is just one facet of it. Not having anyone willing to extend you any sort of credit whatsoever is a problem in today's world. Have you ever tried buying a house or car with bad credit? Maybe you make enough money that saving up for a big-ticket item isn't a problem, but the vast majority of people don't and have to pay for such things in installments. Not to mention that being denied a credit card does inconvenience people, sometimes considerably. Not having a credit card can be a real problem if an emergency occurs. Quit being such a twit and get off your high horse.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Danse]

Debtor's prison is not a physical place. It's the inabilty to purchase anything that you cannot pay cash for at that very moment. It's the inability to make purchases over the internet. It's the much increased difficulty in buying big-ticket items due to the fact that you can't pay via cash or check, nor can you finance them.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Danse]

I had thought that debt could not be transferred to someone else.

Oh yes, it most certainly can be transferred. It sucks, but that's the way the law works.

1-800-ATT-CALL

[jkovach]

MCI used to own 1-800-ATT-CALL also. If you called it, you'd get a recording saying something like "This number is not in service. To make a collect call, please dial 1-800-COLLECT." 1-800-COLLECT is owned by... MCI!

AT&T was getting slammed by its contractors

[hawk]

I wish I could post a URL but a couple of years ago, AT&T sued one of its contractors over the slamming--they were more than a little unpleased about it . . .

Not that I have sympathy for anyone who contracts to telemarketers--I think that telemarketing should be a criminal offense, or that at the lest there should be a national don not call database, available in hashed form, and that calling anyone on the list for marketing purposes should be a crime.

WHile I"m at it, AT&T screwed things up even having them as my carrier. I have their 5c all day plan (just try to get my wife to wait for eveneing . . .). WHen I moved, I called to have the plan moved. They seized the new line, and billed at regular rates. This made about a $100 difference on the first month's bill. My first call to customer service got me an idiot, but when I called the next month, it was quickly corrected. I'd consider switching, but I have yet to see a plan that will cost less with my wife's calling habits . . . (It was a breakthrough when I got her below $100/month--while I was in poverty in graduate school).

While I'm grumping about AT&T, idiots, and gtraduate school: At Iowa State, the school *was* the local telco in student housing. This meant that the school got excellent (for the time) rates, as they were buying somewhere around 10,000 lines in a single transaction . . . They switched carriers partway through, adn we got 10c around the clock while the best deals were generally paying a monthly to get 10c at special hours. We got *3* calls from AT&T wanting to know why we switched--somehow they couldn't figure out that they lost all those lines in a single contract . . .

hawk

Vis-a-vis Recording Calls...

[Christopher B. Brown]

Wouldn't it be appropriate for you to, immediately upon receiving such a call, read, from your script:

Please note that this call may be recorded for quality assurance purposes.

Re:Hey Slashdot

[jafac]

Hell, the only reason I post anymore is to Troll.

There's nothing to gain by posting anymore, since MaxKarma was set to 50. I mean, I was often afraid of losing Karma back when I was at 120+, now I feel like I've got nothing to lose (hint, I'm at 96-ish now). Before, when I had something stupid to say, I'd post at 1, because that wouldn't attract the wrath of the moderators quite as much, probably because the moderators would moderate at +2, refusing to go down into the gutters of slashdot and rooting out the 0 and 1 first posters. But now, what good does having 96 Karma do me? Nothing. So I'll burn it down to 50, and if I last that long, maybe I'll change back into a good citizen. Until then however, it looks like there are a LOT of others out there like me who just don't give a crap anymore. Perhaps if Hemos would give me a blowjob if I stayed above 100, then I'd consider holding back my trollish ways.

I'm even considering reading slashdot at +3 now, because it's really taking up too much of my time reading all the +2 crap. I know that there are occasional pearls at +2, hell, even some very good stuff is at 0 or 1. I'm missing out. Oh well.

confirmation!

[jafac]

This just confirms what everyone's been saying about Hemos for a while now. Hemos sucks!

(just kidding) -

and it's not "State AG's", it's "State A'sG". The plural of Attorney General is Attorneys General.

Re:Consumers vs Corporates

[jafac]

about the firestone thing; why don't you watch the movie "Fight Club" and try to figure out where that "strong rumor" came from.

in fact, it IS how these things work in corporations. Bean counters make the decisions.

Re:Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[jafac]

I was a telemarketer for a short 2 weeks back in High School. Didn't have no pansy-ass laws protecting consumers back then. But after the THIRD time I called a dead person (grieving widow), I got up from my workstation, and walked out, saying nary a word to anybody. That has got to be the most fucked-up job there is. I'm glad I work on computers now.

Wouldn't work...

[Svartalf]

The operator's console doesn't have access to the resources to poll the last call. And if you think that an operator would do just what you suggest if they could, you're mistaken.

Re:Damn thing doesn't work

[dattaway]

When I had ISDN, I programmed the box to only allow calls with numbers in it. It worked. If the caller could not deliver a valid number with the connection, they got a rapid busy tone.

It's not just illegal, it's a Bad Thing

[Rift]

after working at a large (14state) phone company for a while, I've learned a bit about slamming.. Yes, virginia, it is illegal. Call up and bitch a bit. They get fined for each instance reported at the end of every year, or so I'm told. (Still happens though)..

But the fun thing is the local carriers. The 'local' part of our phone company will require more and more stringent checks when switching service to long distance providers with a high rate of 'slamming'.. Some of them were so high on the list that the requirements normally discouraged customers from switching altogether! This sends a message.. You cut into the money, and they listen

This is done because when people are slammed, they normally call their local provider first to complain. The local provider doesn't want people tied up on those calls, and so they punish the long distance carriers.. eventually, the LD carriers get the message and fly right.

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[GeorgeH]

If you live in a state where all parties must consent to recording, in order to prove that the marketer is perjuring itself, you'd have to admit under oath that you'd broken your state's eavesdropping laws. This would be a Bad Move(tm).

I always thought that was a federal thing. Regardless, I've always considered having my phone answer with a shrinkwrap-style license saying "By calling this number, you have agreed to have your conversation recorded for quality assurance" or some such nonsense.

The other idea that popped into my head was when I get really dumb tech support, I consider recording them. The legality behind this would be that they told me that "In order to assure quality customer service, this call may be recorded" which I interpret as granting me permission to keep them inline by recording them. Think it would hold up in court? :)
--

Re:Consumers vs Corporates

[rho]

The recent Ford/Firestone tire recall brought a similar problem to light - there was strong rumors that at one point, Firestone weighed the cost of a recall of the tires in the US to the cost of settling any wrongful death lawsuits that may come from the problem. As I said, that's a rumor, but that seems to be a bottom line for many companies nowaday

Here's a cheerful thought for the day. While excoriating "big corporations" for being heartless, mean-spirited assholes, keep this in mind. Firestone -- if they did run the numbers and decided that it's less money to pay wrongful deaths instead of recall -- is, in a way, forced to do so. If they don't, and just recall, they can be subjected to a shareholder lawsuit for not doing their due diligence.

It's a mean, mean world filled with vicious assholes. Picking on "big corporations" is great entertainment, because they are a legal-fiction of a person, not a real one, and it's easy to pick on somebody that doesn't really exist.

It's almost an exercise in navel-gazing, really.

Re:Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[Ian Schmidt]

This worked for me. I was getting frequent phone-spams from AT&T and MCI, and I told them both to add me to their "do-not-call" list. The MCI rep was actually bright enough to tell me "it may be up to 60 days before this goes into effect", but neither one have called me since I asked to be on their list (almost a year now).

AT&T Slammed Me...Or At Least Tried

[waldoj]

On our line at the office, I got a call a few months ago from a friendly woman at AT&T, who wanted to know why we left them for our long distance service. I told her that we hadn't changed our long distance, that it was the same as it had always been. Concerned, she offered to switch us back.

I got a little suspicious, and got her phone number and extension, and told her that I'd call her right back. Reviewing our bills, I found I was right -- we'd been with Sprint ever since we started the business 14 months previously. Just to check, I called Sprint, and they said that we were still with them, just as we'd always been.

I called the woman back and demanded that she explain herself. She stuttered out a lame excuse: her computer said that I was with AT&T before, and that we're now with Joe's Long Distance, or something like that. I told her that was an absolute lie, and asked to speak with her supervisor. She said that she didn't have one, and hung up.

That is sneaky. BTW, we're now with Cable & Wireless. Our long distance bills have gone from -- really -- $13 / month to $1.25.

-Waldo

AT&T Sucks

[Julius X]

I haven't used AT&T long distance in years. I currently use Sprint here at school, and back home my parents use MCI/Worldcom. Both of them provide decent & curious service, and don't call bitching you out trying to switch to another service.

The funny thing is that even back in the day when I _had_ AT&T they still called asking me if I wanted to switch! My reaction would be....uhm morons...I use you already, are you that stupid?

Any company that can't keep track of its own customers has serious problems.

-Julius X

Talk like rock

[geoffeg]

Sometimes its hard, really, to read articles that hemos writes. I go very slow when reading I have to think carefully about where a comma or period should have been that he left out somewhere again. I like the articles I do but sometimes I want just to have babelfish translate article to German and back in hopes that make more sense it does.

This is just a joke, I'm just joking, that is true. :)

Geoff

Re:Don't blame the telemarketers

[winter@ES]

"You know another group of hate-mongers who were just "doing there job"? They were called NAZIS! And they nearly wiped a nation of people of the earth!" - Clerks

paulb

There are worst thing than slamming

[Hasdi Hashim]

If you say, no, they'll slam you. If you say yes, they'll sign you up without the calling plan. When ATT called me, they said that they can offer 0.36/minute for calls to Malaysia and 1.5 months later I opened my phone bill to find out that they are charging me 3.00/minute! I called them up and they say they have *no recollection* of me signing up for the calling plan so they refuse to adjust the rates. When the telco switch you, there must be a third party verifier to record that you are making the switch to the new company but nothing is recorded by the calling plan. That is one way to beat the system. I am appalled a company as big as ATT does scam like this!

Hasdi

Re:How rich are you, -Ben?

[cpeterso]

Get a lawyer on staff, you guys

The original poster meant that Slashdot should retain a lawyer for misc law questions. duh.

Re:Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[cpeterso]

I worked as a telemarketer one summer during college. Here are my insider tips:

1. If a telemarketer calls you and you are not home, your phone number is placed on a "call back real soon" list.

2. Do NOT swear at the telemarketer because they will often add you to the "call back real soon" list to further annoy you!

3. Politely ask to be added to their "do not call" list. This is surprisingly effective. It also will cut your current call short. The telemarketer knows you will never be a prospective customer, so they will want to get off the phone with you ASAP. They want to move to better prospective customers.

Re:Hey Slashdot

[Tarnar]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize I needed to justify my existance to you.

Jesus Christ indeed, you have a Score:2? Man, I thought I was appealing to the Slashdot Elite. Looks like I only was heard by fools and the ignorant.

Figure it out for yourself buddy. If you want to be a Troll, what the fuck do you need a holiday for? Go wild. Use that Karma. Abuse Slashdot. Hell, everyone else is, with or without my being here.

Idea

[schporto]

OK so you were slammed. This means that MCI lost money to them. Call MCI and let MCI know that AT&T was stealing their money. Probably will get no response, but hey it might.
-cpd

Drone back..

[angelo]

When I get telemarketer calls, I say "please do not call me again" in the most monotone, but somewhat powerful voice. Then again, I like to use this in meatspace as well. It makes people go away.

Independent Verification

[Brooks Davis]

Here in the state of Washington, there's a great piece of anti-slamming law. For your long distance provider to be switched, and independent verifier must call you and confirm the switch before the local telco is allowed to do it. I suggest lobbying your state for similar protection. Now if only, they would ban hangup calls...

<tangent>I'll never do any business with MCI. They bought my name form SallieMae (the student loan monopoly). They send me more ads then just about anyone and nearly all of them are hidden in other company's envelopes (Sun Country air being the worst offender.)</tangent>

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[Ralph Wiggam]

The Privacy Manager in Indiapolis picks up anything that doesn't give a real legit Caller ID message. Unknown, blocked, private, anything, will send you into it.

-B

Re:Banks requiring land lines

[jfunk]

I certainly do not have a land line and that didn't bother my bank one bit, nor did it bother anyone else.

It's also useful because anonymous calls are illegal, yay. I have not received one unsolicited call (aside from one wrong number) since I got it.

Then again, I live in Canada. Our banks are extremely technology savvy.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[PapaZit]

So you're claiming that not having credit cards is being in debtors prison? Wow. Do you realize that this is how the world worked for a very long time. Most people used this unusual (for today) thing called savings.

--

Re:Here's what I do with telemarketers

[slickwillie]

Usually, I don't answer, since I've got caller ID and an answering machine. When I do answer, and there is a pause while the autodialer connects the TM, I usually just put the phone down and wait a few minutes till they give up and disconnect. Or sometimes, when they ask "Is this Mr. XXX?" I say "No, I'll go get him", then I put the phone down and wait. It's not quite a wire brush, but at least it costs them a little bit of time and money.

Re:I used to do that, now I do this...

[slickwillie]

How about a neuralnet system that tyries to keep them on the phone as long as possible without committing to anything?

TM: How would you like to save big $$$ on long distance calls? ...

NN: Did you say ONE? I think you said ONE. If you did say ONE, say ONE now, otherwise say TWO.

TM: ...If you sign up now we'll add 1000's of free...

NN: Did you say TWO? I think you said TWO. If you did say TWO, say ONE now, otherwise say TWO.

TM: ...blah blah

Re:The sad thing

[spankenstein]

Actually... Quite a few of my friends work for telcos and make a decent wage for a part time job. They make $9 - $11 an hour. That's pretty good in the midwest for a part time job.

I have friends that have been managers at retail stores for similar pay and get along through life fine.

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[ajs]

This guy is being WAY too simplistic about it (maybe in the city you live in there are job choices for someone with your skillset, but if your only skill is that you read and speak english and you live in a small city with limited opportunity, I assure you there are very few jobs), but I have to agree with the basic concept.

Advertising has become the business of anoying people just enough that they remember your name. Pissing off customers is considered the price of getting new ones. I've heard people in marketing cite many such scary mottos. For example:

"Boycotts have never worked, so why would I be afraid of one?"

"There's no such thing as bad publicity."

"We get about a 2% return on these calls, so we're quite happy."

"Teens are quite attactive because they're just starting to form their opinions, and advertising can mold those opinions in favor of whatever products we want"

Does this scare you?

Telemarketers should be treated with the contempt that their job deserves. They may not have had a choice, but they're being rude as hell, and I see no reason to respond to repeated, deliberate rudeness with anything other than a curt dismissal and a hangup.

Re:Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[noelyap]

Not according to this:

If you are a service bureau, forward all requests to be removed from a list to the company on whose behalf you are calling. Its is that company that is legally liable under the TCPA, not the service bureau. The "do not call" request must also be honored by any affiliate or subsidiary of the company if there is a reasonable expectation on the part of the consumer that there request would apply also to the affiliate or subsidiary.

I say, sue em!

Re:Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[werdna]

Getting the judgement against them is easy

How, exactly, do you prove that they called you? Can you post a copy of your complaint?

There may be a way to prevent it...

[oneiros27]

I can't remember what the technical term is anymore, but when I worked for an ISP, we had a restriction put on our phones so that our long distance service could not be changed. Someone tried doing it while we had the lock, and Bell South called us to let us know about it.

I don't know if it's a special thing that Bell South offered, but I advise everyone to call their phone company, and see if they can get it, or something similar.

In talking to a Bell South manager once, he said that some long distance companies have been known in the past to sell their customers to other providers if they're not making enough calls to make it worthwhile to keep them as a customer.
(I don't know if it's true or not, so I won't give a name incase it was just a rumor, and not a solid fact)

You don't need to sue, call the DTE

[goliard]

Um, but: duh.

There is a regulatory body which exists to protect consumers from the fraud and force of utility corporations. They are, in Massachusetts, the Department of Telecommunications and Energy. Yes, they take complaints from the public. They even have an on-line submission form if you want to lodge a compaint with them.

I just called them. See my other post in this thread for more info.

How *really* to piss of the Telemarketter Corps

[goliard]

Offer the poor schmucks better jobs.

"Hello, is this John Smith."

"Yes, are you a telemarketter?"

"Sir, I'm here to let you know about a great opportunity--"

"Would you like a better job? How much are you making now?"

"Uh..."

"You're not being recorded, are you?"

"... no...."

"Well, how good is the money you're making doing cold calls?"

"[insert pitiful commission rate here]"

"Well you have a fine voice. Have you ever thought of going into computers?"

"Computers?"

"Heck, yeah. My company is in dire need of {phone support people/data-entry people/receptionists}. We've got offices all over the place, and we pay [insert completely reasonable salary], and have full benefits. And we train. Where are you?"

"[insert some obscure location]"

"Have you ever considered moving to [insert real place with jobs]? Say, can you get me your resume?..."

Imagine if that happened to every telemarketter to pick up a phone.... :)

Mass. DTE cite

[isdnip]

http://www.magnet.state.ma.us/dpu/telecom/slamlett .pdf

That's the state regulator's (DTE) letter to consumers about slamming. There's a bunch more on their web site, and a state law against it, as well as federal rules against it.

State law requires Third Party Verification by an authoritized "TPV" vendor, *or* tape recording of your phone call, *or* written authorization. It is not applicable only to ILECs (VeriZontal) but to CLECs like MediaOne/AT&T too. There are stiff penalties. Of course AT&T knows this, as they were on the losing end of zillions of MCI slams a decade or so ago; that's what led to the stricter rules. It's probably a third-party telemarketing company they retained who is desperate to make quota, but it's still AT&T's responsibility.

BTW I use AT&T/MediaOne's phone service in the Boston area too, and it's quite good. I also use AT&T long distance, with online billing (also a pretty good rate, 9c days 5c nights, no fee; I don't think they advertise it but it's available for the asking; international however is a different story). This hasn't stopped AT&T (the long distance side) from calling me asking me to switch *to* AT&T, from sending me checks whose indorsement consitutes authorization to switch me to AT&T, etc. So their internal records are (to use a famous Boston term for a young codfish) scrod.

AT&T's a big company. The consumer LD side is incredibly profitable but shrinking as LD rates decline. So Wall Street is unhappy, and AT&T's considering spinning the whole thing off. AT&T Broadband is still basically two companies, MediaOne and ex-TCI. They're not well coordinated. AT&T Broadband is talking about offering their own LD service, but for now doesn't seem to have any LD billing.

Is that the PICC you're talking about?

[isdnip]

A few years ago, Uncle Charlie (the FCC) came up with a wacky scheme. They allowed local telephone companies (LECs) to impose a "Primary Interexchange Carrier Charge" (PICC, as in "pixie") on every line, with the bill sent to the presubscribed LD carrier. It was I think $0.53 on the primary residential line but higher on second lines and business lines. This is what got LD companies to start imposing minimums or monthly fees -- they passed it right along, only since they didn't get hteir PICC bills itemized by line, they couldn't pass them directly, so they were averaged.

If you didn't have a PIC (e.g., no LD carrier), then you the subscriber got the PICC bill. No escape.

This stupid scheme was finally dropped, I think, in July of this year. The End User Common Line charge (monthly "access charge") will go up instead; it has been capped at $3.50 on primary resi lines and $6 on others. THis is NOT a charge for LD service, but a charge for that portion of local service which is technically assigned to the FCC's jurisdiction. Don't ask. (Smith v. Illinois Bell, US Sup. Ct. 1927.)

Re:Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[Tackhead]

> While it may feel cathartic to harass the person calling you, you're merely annoying someone low on the food chain.

Quite true. You also forgot one other reason not to harass the drone on the other end of the phone - several companies are hiring prisoners, and/or ex-cons on early-release programs. These clods aren't the kinds of people you want to piss off, especially since they have your real name, phone number, and meatspace address sitting in front of them on the screen.

Despite my cathartic /. rant concerning what to do with telemarketers (something I'd desperately love to see legalized - FOX TV would definitely air the wire-brushings ;-), I'm actually pretty polite to 'em on the phone in Real Life.

Uttering the phrase "place this number on your firm's do-not-call list" the instant you realize it's a telemarketer usually results in a "yes sir, we'll do that", or "OK, thank you", and an immediate hangup.

The drone is interested in doing as many calls as possible - the faster they're done with you, the sooner they can harass the next person on the list.

By being polite and quick, you not only reduce the probability that an angry drone will target you for future harassment (remember, they've got your phone number, name, and address at a minimum), you increase the probability that you'll actually be placed on their do-not-call list.

I only break out the "big guns" (inform of TCPA violation and threat of TCPA suit) for repeat offenders. AT&T's been the only one dumb enough to call back three times.

It took me about three months, but I went from three calls a night down to one every month. It's actually been about 3 months since the last telemarketer darkened my phone. And I don't even pay the phone company the "ransom" for anonymous-call-rejection. (I see no reason to pay the phone company for what I see as something that should be mine by right - namely the right not to be harassed - even though the local telco sees that right as a service to be hawked.

( Besides, the bastards at the local telco sold my number immediately - even though I made sure the number was both "unpublished" and "unlisted" at the time of signup. I'll tear a slice outa my local telco some other day, though :-)

'independent verification' is independant

[pnatural]

telco's call it "TPV" or Third Party Verification. believe me (cause i work for a telco), when the rep says they're recording your agreement, that your voice is being recorded for later verification. if you really want that verification, you (or your lawyer) could get that recording.

by law, telcos have to have those recordings verified by a third party -- but telcos are allowed to have the verification done after the fact. hence, it's still possible to slam -- most customers don't give a damn if/when their LD carrier is changed. sad but true.

as a not-so-funny side note, this recently became an issue with my company and me when they slammed my father. when he told me, i sent a few polite emails to the people in charge, and the TPV recording was used to verify that my dad did indeed get slammed. his account was credited, and he was switched back to his former LD carrier. see, not all telcos suck.

Re:How rich are you, -Ben?

[Zoop]

This is exactly why we need National Law Care.

Clearly, the rich have access to wonderful legal care on a daily basis, and the poor have no resort. Why is this? Greed. Pure and simple, on the part of lawyers.

It's time to nationalize them. Legal representation is a basic human right which the megacorps have been denying poor people long enough. Well, Hillary has been working on a plan that she'll implement once in the Senate that will deal with this, an only a WTO-loving republican techophobe would oppose:

The country will be divided up into large "Legal Care Organizations" with regional coverage. You can get basic advice, such as "can I sue diz guy" and "for how much?" with only a minor* wait.

Lawyers will have salary caps to a reasonable maximum. Specialists will be trained and deployed only as needed by the Law Care Administration Bureau, to ensure that general practice lawyers are in sufficient supply, especially to underserved communities. A team of doctors will decide what legal salaries should be.

Now, if you go out of your region, you may not have access to full representation. This is to prevent people from trying to take more than their fair share of care by shopping around.

To insure equal representation, private law practice will be outlawed.

Another problem solved by government intervention, and brought to you by Al Gore and Hillary Clinton!

*The wait will be six, max seven years. Trust us.

Just say the magic words

[mwalker]

The formula is simple.
1) Buy a tape recorder.
2) Every time you answer the phone, inform people that they are being recorded for quality control purposes.
3) When the AT&T telemarkedroid starts talking, say the magic words:
PUT ME ON YOUR DO-NOT-CALL LIST
This phrase has deep legal signifigance. You can ask for them to mail you written confirmation of the do-not-call list. They are required to comply.
4) If they call again, confirm their identity, time/date stamp the recording, and find your lawyer. Then sue the fuck out of them.

For more information how, check out www.junkbusters.com. I successfully (settled out of court) sued MCI, and they never, ever call me anymore.

no

[anonymous cowerd]

I have absolutely no compassion for those people.

Some people feel sorry for no one except maybe themselves, possibly because they're just plain mean sons of guns. I feel sorry for everyone, because we're all going to die pretty soon. Whatever.

Yours WD "dead" K - WKiernan@concentric.net

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[CMU_Nort]

First off - fuck AT&T and all their telemarketers with a wire brush. (Fuck all telemarketers with a wire brush, but start with AT&T's. When you're done with the rest of the telemarketers, give AT&T's another go-around with the wire brush.)

We'll just go in alphabetical order. It's easier that way and AT&T still get's taken care of fairly quickly.

"Cramming" is a big problem too

[Tau Zero]

I've had services "crammed" onto my phone bill before. Worse, the phone company would not remove them; I had to go through the so-called "supplier" to get the charges taken off. (It took me several months, and they never did refund the last $5.) What really irked me is that the name of the person who allegedly signed me up for the "service" bore no resemblance to mine, and yet the billing went through. There are no checks in the system to prevent false billing, and you pay a heavy (and unrecoverable) penalty of your time to get rid of these fees.

It is time to have statutory damages for cramming, like $200 if the bill was obviously wrong (like the wrong name on the account). That would make it worthwhile for people to spend their time to get the crammed services removed, and hurt the crammers enough to make the practice uneconomical.
--
Build a man a fire, and he's warm for a day.

Re:"Cramming" is a big problem too

[Greyfox]

Mom's a journalist and covered something similar to that. Apparently a family in South Florida had 2 lines, one for the parents and an internet line for a teenager. They requested that the Internet line not have long distance on it. Well the phone company at some point added long distance calling to the internet line and the teenager got caught up in a "free" internet service scam being offered by Belgian Telecom (http://www.bt.com.) He downloaded a dialer which merrily dialed up an international number in Belgium. Thinking the service free, he left the line up for hours a day, resulting in a six digit phone bill.

I haven't heard the end of this story yet, but the family has a good chance of getting out of the charges due to the fact that they requested that long distance service be left off the second line and never authorized a change. I'm hoping the telco gets stuck with the six digit phone bill, their just desserts for cramming. Belgium Telecom needs a serious dinging too but I'm not going to go to Belgium to fight that battle.

Re:How I Got the Phone Company To Stop Calling Me

[billstewart]

If you tell them to put you on their "don't call" list, they're legally required to do so. I work for AT&T, so it's MCI that used to call me :-) It took a while to get the modem line on the don't-call list also, since usually if I was home it would have a computer on it, so it would either be busy or answer with modem tones, and their databases weren't bright enough to decide that since my primary line wanted not to be called, so did the modem line.

AT&T Web Page on Slamming

[billstewart]

• http://www.att.com/true/slam.html
  
• Long Distance Toll Verification: 1-700-555-4141
  
• Slamming Resolution Center: 1-800-538-5345 if AT&T slammed you
  
• AT&T Consumer Services: 1-800-222-0300
  
• FCC Complaint Phone: 1-888-225-5322
  
• Better Business Bureau www.bbb.org
  
• Magic phrase for getting people not to call you back: Please put me on your don't-call list.
  

  
  Disclaimer: I work for AT&T, but my comments here are just my personal comments. You can read AT&T's comments on slamming on their web page.
  AT&T got lots of flack for a while from people being slammed by their subcontractors, and they started putting a lot more control on that, but they still screw up sometimes.
  

  I've never particularly liked the local phone companies' approach to slamming, which is to continue to bill you for the long distance service and have you resolve it. My own preference is to write to the local telco and the slammer telco notifying them that unsolicited services are legally a gift, and you did not request any services from them and will not pay for them, and thank you for freely handling all the calls that you tried to make using your preferred long-distance carrier (in my case, AT&T) and that they can return you back at their leisure but could they fix that little hiss in the background?
  I haven't tried this, and the telcos probably wouldn't like having this used widely because it's an obvious method for fraud, but tough luck, eh?
  

  I haven't had to use AT&T's don't-call lists, though I think one of their telemarketer subcontractors did call me once even though I'm a subscriber:-)
  MCI does a decent job of maintaining don't-call lists - I usually ask them if their employee discount is better than AT&T's and they get the hint. They aren't bright enough to figure out about don't call lists for multiple phone lines at the same address, and they once got lucky and called my modem line between the time I got home and the time I plugged in my laptop, so it's in the list now also...

Yet another story...

[mOdQuArK!]

My mother, in the process of changing long distance phone companies, ended up being charged by 3 different long distance phone companies (one slammer & one that refused to believe that she didn't want their service anymore). They were sending her collection notices before she got them to back down by sending her complaints copied to the FTC (Federal Trace Commission) and our local public utility commission (who were in the process of deciding whether they were going to let the local phone company offer high speed Internet access).

As for myself, I discovered that I was being charged for long distance even though I had canceled my land-based line & had gone completely cellular (which took care of those damn long-distance company telemarketers at the same time). The long distance "customer service" representative seemed to be quite annoyed that they couldn't make me keep the service w/o a phone line.

As long as these companies don't get punished for their "mistakes", they don't feel any need to improve their service - and the more mergers occur, the less they have to worry about somebody with better customer service. Too bad individuals can't fine them a few hundred bucks for each mistake - the resultant hemorraghing would probably make them clean up their act REAL fast.

File a Complaint

[Greyfox]

I forget if it's the FTC or the FCC, but you can file a complaint if you get slammed. Searching the web reveals pages and pages of information, rants and news about slamming. I like the one from the New York Attorney General's office.

In a nutshell stick it to them. Hmm. I wonder if you could file suit in a small claims court for the half hour you wasted dealing with this. I figure my free time is worth about $250 an hour...

Hmm...

[Greyfox]

Would dialing 0 immediately after the call and telling the operator that the previous call to your number was illegal and you need to find out where it came from work? Each call has to leave a record somewhere, it's just a matter of finding that record...

Fav way to get the callers off my back

[Yhcrana]

Here are the ways I have come up with.

Credit Card Company: scream across the room "Hey, looks like we can get those other creditors off our back, we just got offered another credit card. Grab the bills and decide which ones we should pay with THIS card"

hone Companies: "No I'm sorry, I don't have any friends that have phones, I don't need any long distance calling plans."

Also you can always answer that you aren't the person with authority to change anything or that the person they are asking for isn't there.

But the one i use in reality is: "This is a non-soliciting number please remove me from you database."

Yhcrana

FCC Consumer Information Site

[ewieling]

The FCC has a consumer information site at http://www.fcc.gov/cib/. It includes information on slamming and other FCC related consumer information topics.

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[LonEagle]

Privacy Manager is the most asinine piece of shit that Ameritech has ever come up with. They are screwing both ends. The telemarketer pays them to make the call, and then you're paying them to deny it. It should NOT cost money to not get unsolicited phone calls. AND YOU STILL HAVE TO ANSWER THE PHONE, interrupting whatever you were doing anyway. And you can get a little button with a voice chip in it that says "please add me to your do not call list" for a lot cheaper and a single fee.
Honestly.

Besides, it doesn't deal with the issue of slamming. Slamming *IS* illegal, they may NOT change your long distance carrier without your permission, go file a complaint with the state AG, as slamming is getting a lot of attention these days.

Don't Blame AT&T

[ebcdic1]

I hate to burst your bubble but AT&T isn't the one to blame. Where I work unfortunately someone along the way decided it was a good idea for the IT department to be responsible for all the phone lines. We are talking hundreds of lines here. We are 'slammed' at least 2 or three times a year. We switched all long distanse from Sprint to AT&T last year and we seem to be the only one's that realize this. I have what are called pic freezes on every single line which requires a password and id verification (I recommend everyone have this done, it seems to help somewhat. Call your local provider and have them freeze the A and B pics,local & regional) before you can have your long distanse carrier changed. We are still slammed because Bell Atlantic (Now Verizon, talk about bloatware) falls asleep at the wheel and let's it happen. If you are having your long distanse changed wrongly, it is because your local phone provider is letting it occur. I recently recieved a letter from Bell saying that our long distance was being changed from Sprint to Qwest communications. Quite a shocker considering we were with AT&T. I was at such a fustrated point in this whole ordeal I actually had Sprint call Bell Atlantic while I was on the line (a 3 way call) listening to the outcome. Besides being quite humorous the outcome was that a request had incorrectly been sent from Bell. The phone companies are the biggest joke in corporate America, and unless we start reporting such cases (the mention of the fcc always sends them scurying) this nonsense will continue. The local provider is the stop gate that if they choose could prevent this from happening. Now back to Tux Racer, they are after all only phone lines.

Go to the FCC site

[jdcook]

Click for the FCC .PDF on slamming.

and for a more general FCC page on slamming

try this.

what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[MattW]

I recently switched long distance carriers, because swbell, while I was calling them about something else, offered and described a good plan with no monthly fees and no "local long distance" that would be inflated to a price high enough for an international call.

Anyhow, when it actually came time to switch, the southwestern bell rep actually had to call an independant number, punch in my phone numbers, and I had to record a message saying that I'd authorized the switch of the service. I'm not sure if they're just being conscientious or if slamming is illegal around here. Incidentally, if they can do anonymous call blocking with caller id, can't we get a solicitation call block? :P

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[Squid]

I don't need any such device. I know exactly who's calling, 90% of the time - telemarketers to whom Ameritech sold my name.

And I know they did because when I got my phone service reactivated awhile back, Ameritech wrote my name down wrong, substituting an O for a P in a critical spot, so that the name was basically unpronounceable - and telemarketers sometimes ask for you by name.

For the rest I bought a toy phone with a voice-changer. I could just say "put me on your don't call list" and hang up, but this is much more fun: let them finish their sales pitch, so as to make them do the most work, then flip on the voice changer and begin speaking, either in Elmo-speak or in the deep booming voice of Satan. After that it doesn't matter what I say. They either go silent for many seconds and then hang up, or they bust up laughing and hang up.

Just once I had a telemarketer on the line, I chose the Elmo voice, and they didn't go away, so I had to switch to Satan voice: "NO, I said I'm not INTERESTED!"

Re:what I had to go through to switch ld carriers

[Ralph Wiggam]

Ameritech, here in Indianapolis, offers a service called "Privacy Manager". For about 3 bucks a month, any call that doesn't bring up a Caller ID message gets sent to a voicemail type system that asks the caller to say their name or company that they're from. After they do that, your phone rings and a voice says, "Would you like to accept a call from.." then plays the message that was just recorded. If you hit 1, it just connects you like a normal phone call. If you hit 2, it plays a message saying, "The recipient has declined to take your call. Please remove them from your call list."
It sounds cool, but unless you get a TON of telemarketers, it's not worth hassling your friends. I canceled mine after my uncle called from an airport payphone to tell me his flight was changed and was cut off twice by the service.

-B

Damn thing doesn't work

[xant]

We have caller ID, and anonymous call rejection. We still get anonymous calls that don't show up in the Caller ID screen. It doesn't work, it's not worth paying for, and we're getting rid of it. The only way to get rid of anonymous calls is not to connect your phone to the wall. (Unfortunately you gotta have a phone number to get anything in this country, cuz banks require a land line, no cell phones--thanks, Drug Czar! Nothing says you gotta have a phone, though.)
--

Mediaone? NO WAY!

[itswhatsinside]

Depending on where you live there is always the RCN option. I've had good service from them for cable, and local/long distance phone. It did take them a month to get my cable modem working (both times I've moved), so I'd be weary of that. The quality of service is just as good, and a heck of a lot cheaper than MediaOne...I mean AT&T.

How I Got the Phone Company To Stop Calling Me

[Cheshire Cat]

I used to get all those annoying phone calls to switch long distance. Finally I told ATT that I worked for Sprint, and well, nothing ATT could offer me would beat my employee deal. The caller chuckled and said he'd make a note of it. I haven't been called by ATT since then.

I did the same thing when Sprint, telling them I worked for ATT.

This seems to be the only thing I ever got to work.

Just say 'no' (money).

[Stephen Samuel]

As far as I know, you shouldn't have to pay them. You have no contract (either explicit or implicit) to pay them for any service. If there is a law that says that they have to pay you for the difference, it may also state that you have to pay them for a service you didn't contract for.

If there is an explicit law that you have to pay them for the long distance, then you're hooped. Otherwise, you should be able to get away with refusing to pay. .. Of course, then you might have to deal with the fact that they own your local provider, but I doubt that they also want to loose your local business too.
`ø,,ø`ø,,ø!

Re:*DO* blame the telemarketers

[molog]

If you don't mind me asking how did you inherit your father's debt? I had thought that debt could not be transferred to someone else. For example if my father some lost all his money and went $100k in the hole, I would not be responsible for taking care of that would I? This is a very scary thing if this can happen. I will have to make sure that my dad NEVER goes to Vegas.
Molog

So Linus, what are we doing tonight?

I used to do that, now I do this...

[SethJohnson]

I used to tell them to hang on and then I'd set the phone down. A few months ago, though, my friend and I brainstormed an even more resource-sapping strategy...

As soon as the person says, "Can I speak with Seth Johnson?" I immediately respond in a very calm and civil tone, "I'd like to speak with your manager. Please put your manager on the phone." Then I put the phone down and walk away. I've stayed on and listened and they always seem to run off and disturb him or her. Really evokes a deer in the headlights response from the TM. These operations always threaten their employees with the risk that a manager might be listening to the call, so they seem pretty nervous about disobeying a reasonable request like this.

Next time I get a manager on the phone, though, I think I'm going to use some of these other suggestions like the phone sex approach on that person. When you get down to it, the people in the trenches (the TM's) are just dumb beasts, so it doesn't seem humane to whip on them. The real cretins here are the managers. The ones who make more money than the TM's without having to endure the abuse. And they deserve the most abuse! They're the ones who are really dedicated to harrassing us, have been doing it long enough to get promoted, and may be considering building a lifelong career out of harrassing us, whereas the TM's can be a bright person suffering through a summer of poor job prospects...

Seth

Freeze your Long Dist Carrier at Local Teleco

[DukeofURL]

Call your Local Teleco and tell them that you want to "freeze" your long distance company. A "freeze" enables only you or your authorized representative to change your long distance company. I'm a computer telephony system admin, and had to do this at work and also had them freeze my LD carrier at my house to.

Re:Sample Call (joke - author unknown)

[348]

An oldie but a goodie. I wish I had some points left. Bravo!

It's illegal, but not enough

[www.sorehands.com]

It is illegal to SLAM, but the penalties are not great enough.

The slamming company is required to pay the difference between what you would have paid if you were not slammed.

What should happen, is if a company slams you, they can't get any money from you.

Anti-Telemarketing Script

[lightspawn]

Here: http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/en/sc rip t.html

Re:Hey Slashdot

[talesout]

Jesus Christ dude, it took you long enough. I kept waiting all day to see the troll at 2 posters start, and it never fucking happened. Although I did pop a few up at 2 today.

So, did you have a valid reason (and 'real life' doesn't count), or did you just not want to help out your own holiday?

Tell them you work for their opposition

[CyberKnet]

I was recently visiting a friend in Chicago, and he informed me that the ONLY way he could get rid of the LD carriers calling him was to tell them he worked for their opposition, and that there was no WAY they could beat the rates he was offered as part of his compensation package. Also bringing into play the respective laws which could be broken, he said he had his lines go from 3 calls a night (from different providers) to 1 call a month. not a bad scam.

---

Pay if you don't have LD in MN!

[EvanKai]

In the pre-DSL days I had 2 additional lines for ISDN. Periodically I would get a bill from AT&T for long distance on one of the lines. I'd call AT&T, bitch and they'd apologize. A few months later it would happen again. I finally wised up and called USWest (now Qwest). After getting the run around for a few hours I finally asked... "What government agency do I complain about you too?" Like magic I was forward to someone who had a clue. They told me that when lines are set up, they are given a default long distance carrier through a random process (every LD carrier gets a shot at your line). When "the computer" sees you don't have a LD carrier, it signs you up with your default carrier. Only by requesting NOT to have a carrier by default can you get around this. Six months later MN passed a bill allowing USWest to charge $5 or $6 a month for the privilege of NOT having a LD carrier. I'm not sure if this is still that case or not. I only have a cell phone these days and I've never had a telemarketer call me on it. Does anyone know if soliciting over a cell phone is illegal?

Just Don't Sign Up for Long Distance

[Blind RMS Groupie]

Last time I got a phone line I explicitly told the operator that I did not want to sign up for a long distance provider, so as to not have to pay the Universal Service charge every month even if I did not use long distance. If I need to call long distance I shop around online for the cheapest dial-around service I can find. Lately I've been sticking with 1010811 as they charge $0.05/minute regardless of time of day or whether the call is in state or out of state and they don't charge extra fees or cram my bill.

I've been slammed by MCI more than once. I will never, ever do business with MCI.

---------------------------------

Check out this site

[curmudgeon42]

this site contains a whole bunch of annoying tactics to confuse and frustrate the telemarkets. also, it has information about the "no call" lists and links to different organizations that have banded together to fight them. i spent a whole day here once looking through all the clever way to fight them. justin

MCI Does this Too. Standard Tactic

[namespan]

Not just MCI. Qwest as well.

MCI has not only slammed people I know, they've
switched people from one long distance plan to another VERY expensive (sans frequent flyer miles, Hemos) plan, without notifying the account holder. I beleive they're going through a lawsuit about such practices.

In short, I haven't run up against an ethical phone company yet.

For long distance, though, some of those rechargeable calling cards are getting pretty cheap.

How to Prevent Slamming: Institute a PIC Freeze

[consolejockey]

Being slammed sucks and there is a way to keep it from happening. You can institute a PIC Freeze, meaning you ask your local phone company to ensure that your long distance carrier is never changed without your permission.

Here's how to institute a freeze:
Call your long distance company (the company you prefer to use) and ask them to tell you their "carrier code," the number that your local company needs in order to implement a PIC freeze. Call your local phone company and give them your phone number. Ask for your PIC to be restricted, and give them the carrier code provided to you by your long distance company.

I work for a company called SmartPrice.com, we do long distance plan recommendations via our web site, and provide a wealth of knowledge to benefit long distance customers. More info about PIC freezes can be found on our site at:
http://www.smartprice.com/nav?pg=static&page=/in fo/article5.jsp

They Tried to Slam Me on Tuesday

[Ch3t]

I got a call the other night. The caller explained to me that with the Verizon "takeover" I would be recieving a new bill. On my Verizon bill I would see certain amounts of savings on various services and I would now have my long distance service included on the same Verizon bill. The long distance charges would be listed as business options. Although I'm sure it would be Business Options if I saw it in print rather than over the phone. Next, I was told I would be getting a call in 10 minutes to verify that the caller had performed her job. At no time was I told the call was from a company other than Verizon. I asked if they were changing my long distance carrier. The caller replied, "Yes, I told you it was Business Options." I then lost my calm demeanor and unleashed many explitives. The caller hung up on me.

Here's the strange part, they didn't block caller ID. The company's actual name is Crusade Communications. Their number is (219)756-8735. How lame can a slamming company be that doesn't even block caller ID?

Now that I have posted their number, I must say, I do not condone crank phone calls, phone phreaking, or harassment of any kind. Did I mention their phone number is (219)756-8735?

I want to thank the many posters who recommended having your local provider freeze your account. I called Verizon and froze mine today.

Consumers vs Corporates

[Masem]

As other have pointed out, Slamming is illegal, but the penalities vary from state to state.

However, what annoys me about cases like this is that the penalty that AT&T will get is small, and that as a consumer, you'll see none of that (or, your amount will be the fraction of the award after the gov't splits it up among the people in the state). A similar case is happening with Ameritech in the midwestern states; after the SBC merger, they ditched a lot of tech workers and backed down from good customer support, such that now, customers are easily going 2, 3 weeks without simple phone repairs, and that's the least of the problems. The states are going fine these companies between 10 and 125 million (depending on the state), which again, will be eventually filtered down into a few dollars savings for the average consumer.

The recent Ford/Firestone tire recall brought a similar problem to light - there was strong rumors that at one point, Firestone weighed the cost of a recall of the tires in the US to the cost of settling any wrongful death lawsuits that may come from the problem. As I said, that's a rumor, but that seems to be a bottom line for many companies nowadays -- if it means more profits after paying the penalties, harm (physical or not) against the consumer is worth it. And while penalties may seem awfully high, these are usually paid back to the government, and then spread across all those that the government represents, even if they didn't have any dealings with that company (e.g, I drive a Dodge 2-door with Michilins).

It's more evidence that today's world is too strongly controlled by corporations. The concept of 'human resource' is being taken outside the workplace, and people's worth as a customer is all that matter to corporations, not the happiness of them.

*DO* blame the telemarketers

[Loundry]

Yes, telemarketers call you at dinnertime. Sure, they may be annoying fucks, but that's their job, and I personally try not to hate anybody for their job, even the cops.

Everyone has a choice of what kind of job they want to have. In our current job market (of the US, that is) we have more opportunities than ever before. It's not like people are being forced into telemarketing.

In other words, people who are telemarketers had a choice of what jobs to get, and they chose the evil job of telemarketing. For this reason, I am abrasive and insulting as the law will allow me to be when they call me. Why? Becuase they are part of the problem.

My hope is that in my lifetime I've inspired just a few more telemarketers to quit and vow never again to return to the business.

Don't yell at them, don't piss whine and moan because they called you at dinnertime, because that's the only time that they work (4-8 or so), because it's just a part time job that they pay the bills with.

I have absolutely no compassion for those people. I don't care about their hard lives or their bills. If they don't like what I dish out then perhaps they should consider getting one of a few million jobs out there that don't involve invading my privacy and trying to sell me garbage that I don't need, never asked for, and never showed interest in.

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[Parity]

While I largely agree with your rant, I would have moderated you down as flamebait for the gratuitously graphic profanity... however... since less sensitive souls have you up here to see...

Have you considered saying 'Oh, yes, I'd -love- to subscribe to your wonderful service' and waiting until you get to the indepent verification and -then- saying, 'No, I don't want to subscribe; I lied, in order to get to the indepent verification; this call was in violation of the law and I'd like to know if you can provide me information about who made it.'

I'm not entirely convinced that the 'independent verification' is so very independent, but somewhere in the play-along process you might get the info needed to shaft them.


--Parity

FTC regs lack bite

[brickbat]

Telcos wouldn't participate in slamming if they lost money at it.

The problem is that FTC rules only allow slammed customers to recover the difference between what they would have paid their preferred provider and what they paid the telco that slammed them. And that only covers the first 30 days after the unauthorized switch.

Bullshit, I say. If I've been slammed, I should owe the slammer zip, zilch, nada. Refund all charges, even if I made 20 three-hour calls to Kazakhstan during that time. Plus they pay to switch me back to my old provider.

Once telcos realize they'll take it in the shorts, they'll drop slamming like the bad habit it is.

Wrong language, and may not work.

[Tau Zero]

The correct thing to say is "Put me on your do-not-call list." Asking to be taken off a list may not meet the statutory requirements, and doesn't keep them from putting you back on.

Unfortunately, that may not work. Since MediaOne is now part of AT&T, and you have a business relationship with MediaOne, they may be able to pester you regardless (though I hope not). I haven't studied the law, so I can't say. Hope there's something that works.
--
Build a man a fire, and he's warm for a day.

At least you didn't have to shell out $500!

[albamuth]

Like I did. Here's the scenario:

I move into a new flat in Chicago. I sign up with Ameritech(aaack!) for local service. I tell them I want my Long Distance provider to be Working Assets which leases their lines from MCI. Okay, everything sounds great, Ameritech gives the green light, thankyouaveaniceday.

Month later: phone bill. I tear into the envelope and my roomate nearly witnesses spontaneous human combustion. Grand total? $560 USD.

I call Ameritech, they say talk to your Long Distance provider ($480) about it. I talk to them and they say, hmm, looks like MCI never got back to us. I as, "So what does that mean?" They explain it this way:

Since they lease their long distance capacity from MCI, once I put in the request Working Assets sends a request to MCI to transfer my account to Working Assests. MCI sits on the notice for a month and wind up charging me the "casual rate" which is something like $2.14 the first minute and $0.54 each additional minute. Needless to say I had made a few long-distance calls in that first month.

Final outcome: Working Assets graciously credits me with difference in cost (almost $400) but I still have to pay off MCI, the cheeky sods. Those smarmy gits.

"Ma Bell, got the ill communication, Ma Bell, got the ill communication..."-Beastie Boys

They can often do worse.

[Tiger Smile]

I feel sorry for people getting slammed. The companies claim, often, that it was not indented.

My first case of being slammed was kind of funny. It was in 1995. I ordered a fractional T1(384kb) for my business(a dailup provider, my 56kb was maxed out). Then one day I get werd extra charges on the T1. I ask our acountant what was goin on. He didn't know. Looking at the bill I noticed that we had been charged for a change of long distance carrier, twice. Once out T1 was switch to AT&T, then MCI, for "long distance" calls.

I explained this to the Pacific Bell billing people. I had a T1, which would not make long distance calls. They only said, will then wy did you switch carriers.

All people working for phone company seem not to "get it". Must be something in the water.

So, slamming is bad, but phone companies' billing paractices are worse.

I ordered a "Centrex" interoffice package from Pacific Bell in San Francisco back in earily 1995. Centrex is a group of business numbers which can call each other without any cost. They must all terminate at the same switch. This product was created to replace small office PBX systems.

Well I got Centrex ISDN lines. Centrex lines don't have to terminate at the same address. So I had many Centrex ISDN lines terminate at customer sites. Ta-ta, 128kb ISDN 24 hours a day with only the $29 a month bill.

I was an ISP, and this was gravy. Or so I thought. Little did I know that the Pacific Bell was holding a blade against my neck, and was cutting.

They somehow forgot that we had unmetered lines, there was a bug in the system. The bills came in to my customers not at $29, but at the metered rate. Pacific Bell, in our first month offering ISDN, overcharged us $38,000.00.

This continued. They even made us pay the bill. We could only speak to "our" customer service rep, who was out in training for 29 out of 30 days of the month it seemed.

When we did get refunds they did not indicate what they were refunding. Our customers got fed up after about six months and the billing nightmare continued.

We quite. Or rather, my partners did. I had no choice. We were the first in our area to offer what people can only get now via DSL. I can't think that is was just a bug in the system. I can't prove anything either.

In the end we sold the customers to other companies and moved on. I was glad to no longer have to spend my entire day on the phone with Pacific Bell.

So, slamming it seems is just par for the course.

Be seeing you.

The Lighter Side...

[Speare]

On the lighter side there was a story about a Telecom company in Texas named them selves idontcare. That way when you started service and were asked "Who would you like for your long distance provider?" people that said "I Don't care" got assigned to this company.

Another fun grab: The predecessor to AT&T's 1-800-CALL-ATT was a short-lived 1-800-OPERATOR (who cares if it's too long, right?). Soon afterwards, MCI, in a bid to get some of that action, grabbed 1-800-OPERATER.

All the yokels who couldn't spell OPERATOR were charged by MCI instead of AT&T.

Unfortunately, it caught on big, and people started doing this with domain names too.

*muttering something about wire brushes*

The sad thing

[cluge]

The sad thing is some poor guy that can't get a better job is the person calling you. These people are paid very very very little, and the only bonuses they get is when they "make a sale". This is how it is for many telemarketers.

I'm not saying that this is how AT&T works. If it is, I'm sure the reason your "slam" had to do with somone's pay check and not AT&T's policy. It was some poor slob was just trying to get enough in his pay check to be able to afford a car that started!

The practice IS illegal, and you can asked to be removed from their phone list, and by law they CANNOT contact you for the period of 1 year. You can call your local better business bureau, they have the number to report "slamming" and other abuses.

On the lighter side there was a story about a Telecom company in Texas named them selves idontcare. That way when you started service and were asked "Who would you like for your LD provider" people that said "I Don't care" got assigned to this company.
Don't know if it's true, but it's funny.

Sample Call (joke - author unknown)

[Jon Anhold]

One thing that has always bugged me, and I'm sure it does most of you, is
to sit down at the dinner table only to be interrupted by a phone call from
a telemarketer. I decided, on one such occasion, to try to be as irritating
as they were to me. The call was from AT&T and it went something like this:

(swallowing)

Me: Hello
AT&T: Hello, this is AT&T...
Me: Is this AT&T?
AT&T: Yes, this is AT&T...
Me: This is AT&T?
AT&T: Yes This is AT&T...
Me: Is this AT&T?
AT&T: YES! This is AT&T, may I speak to Mr. Byron please?
Me: May I ask who is calling?
AT&T: This is AT&T.
Me: OK, hold on.

At this point I put the phone down for a solid 5 minutes thinking that,
surely, this person would have hung up the phone. I ate my salad. Much to
my surprise, when I picked up the receiver, they were still waiting.

Me: Hello?
AT&T: Is this Mr. Byron?
Me: May I ask who is calling please?
AT&T: Yes this is AT&T...
Me: Is this AT&T?
AT&T: Yes this is AT&T...
Me: This is AT&T?
AT&T: Yes, is this Mr. Byron?
Me: Yes, is this AT&T?
AT&T: Yes sir.
Me: The phone company?
AT&T: Yes sir.
Me: I thought you said this was AT&T.
AT&T: Yes sir, we are a phone company.
Me: I already have a phone.
AT&T: We aren't selling phones today Mr. Byron.
Me: Well whatever it is, I'm really not interested but thanks for calling.
When you are not interested in something, I don't think you can express
yourself any plainer than by saying "I'm really not interested", but this
lady was persistent.

AT&T: Mr. Byron we would like to offer you 10 cents a minute, 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Now, I am sure she meant she was offering a "rate" of 10 cents a minute but
she at no time used the word rate. I could clearly see that it was time to
whip out the trusty old calculator and do a little ciphering.

Me: Now, that's 10 cents a minute 24 hours a day?
AT&T: (getting a little excited at this point by my interest) Yes sir
that's right! 24 hours a day!
Me: 7 days a week?
AT&T: That's right.
Me: 365 days a year?
AT&T: Yes sir.
Me: I am definitely interested in that! Wow!!! That's amazing!
AT&T: We think so!
Me: That's quite a sum of money!
AT&T: Yes sir, it's amazing how it adds up.
Me: OK, so will you send me checks weekly, monthly or just one big one at
the end of the year for the full $52,560, and if you send an annual check,
can I get a cash advance?

{{{pause}}}

AT&T: Excuse me?
Me: You know, the 10 cents a minute.
AT&T: What are you talking about?
Me: You said you'd give me 10 cents a minute, 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week, 365 days a year. That comes to $144 per day, $1,008 per week and
$52,560 per year. I'm just interested in knowing how you will be making
payment.

AT&T: Oh no sir I didn't mean we'd be paying you. You pay us 10 cents a
minute.
Me: Wait a minute here!!! Didn't you say you'd give me 10 cents a minute.
Are you sure this is AT&T?
AT&T: Well, yes this is AT&T sir but......
Me: But nothing, how do you figure that by saying that you'll give me 10
cents a minute that I'll give you 10 cents a minute? Is this some kind of
subliminal telemarketing scheme? I've read about things like this in the
Enquirer you know. Don't use your alien brainwashing techniques on me.

AT&T: No sir we are offering 10 cents a minute for.....
Me: THERE YOU GO AGAIN! Can I speak to a supervisor please!
AT&T: Sir I don't think that is necessary.
Me: Sure! You say that now! What happens later?
AT&T: What?
Me: I insist on speaking to a supervisor!
AT&T: Yes Mr. Byron. Please hold. So now AT&T has me on hold and my supper
is getting cold. I begin to eat while I'm waiting for a supervisor. After
a wait of a few minutes and while I have a mouth full of food:

Supervisor: Mr. Byron?
Me: Yeth?
Supervisor: I understand you are not quite understanding our 10 cents a
minute program.
Me: Id thish Ath Teeth & Teeth?
Supervisor: Yes sir, it sure is.

I had to swallow before I choked on my food. It was all I could do to
suppress my laughter and I had to be careful not to produce a snort.

Me: No, actually I was just waiting for someone to get back to me so that I
could sign up for the plan.
Supervisor: OK, no problem, I'll transfer you back to the person who was
helping you.
Me: Thank you.

I was on hold once again and managed a few more mouthfuls. I needed to end
this conversation. Suddenly, there was an aggravated but polite voice at
the other end of the phone.

AT&T: Hello Mr. Byron, I understand that you are interested in signing up
for our plan?
Me: Do you have that friends and family thing because you can never have
enough friends and I'm an only child and I'd really like to have a little
brother...

AT&T: (click)

Check with JunkBusters for Efficacious Tips

[Christopher B. Brown]

You can be aggressive in trying to personally attack or annoy the telemarketers; the problem with that is that:

• While it may feel cathartic to harass the person calling you, you're merely annoying someone low on the food chain.

  This is a bottom end job, taken by people that have had few better opportunities. They make no decisions, and annoying one of them merely annoys one of them.

• You can make one other person's day worse by hurling abuse their way, but this will have no effect on how often you get called. There are thousands of them, and they don't all talk to one another.
• Did I mention already that abusing them does nothing to get you off the lists?

I instead suggest looking to JunkBusters.com. These are the same people that produce the beloved Junkbuster "web proxy" that can block cookies and evil ad banners for you.

Notably see JUNKBUSTERS Telemarketing Headlines, subtitled How to reduce the number of junk phone calls you get.

• They suggest sending your info to the Direct Marketing Association indicating you don't want calls from member companies. I remain skeptical of this...
• They document the "formula" for requesting that You be put onto the caller's "do not call" list.

  I use this regularly, and it did the trick with MCI.

• They further have a Anti-Telemarketing Script that I've not used in detail, but which has good material as straight responses.
• They even have info on the U.S. Laws on Telemarketing

I still get an irritating number of calls from the companies I already do business with, mostly the credit card cretins; the LD Provider calls significantly diminished when I started at least partially following the "JunkBuster Script."

(Horrors! That sounds terrifyingly close to "chain letter" systems!)

Acronym Karma Whore

[Kozz]

PUC - Public Utilities Commission
TCPA - Telephone Consumer Protecton Act
LART - Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool


Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

privatecitizen.com

[FreeUser]

There is a group of activists and tagalongs (I fall in the latter category, as I haven't actually sued anyone myself yet) who have combined into an organization called Private Citizen .

If you join they will, on your behalf, send cease and desist letters to several hundred direct marketing companies, including telemarketers. The cost for both the telemarketing and junk mail service was, I think, $30.00 US. That was the best $30.00 I ever spent: my junk phone calls went to zero and my junk mail to just a trickle.

In addition, they have extensive information on how to combat telemarketers, how to go about suing them in small claims court (and winning), and other guarilla tactics individuals can use to get some of their privacy back.

I am a very satisfied, paying member of that group, and highly recommend it to anyone who seriously wants this shit to end, now. They were highly effective in ending it for me (I had been getting harassed multiple times/week, now I haven't been bothered in months).

Good Luck!

Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991

[Straker Skunk]

(I keep this info on an index card under my phone)

The TCPAo1991 requires that companies keep a "no-call" list, which you can request to be added to. If you hear from them again, you are legally entitled to sue for $500 per incident. And this is federal law.

Look here for more information.

Quite illegal: CONTACT THE DTE!

[goliard]

Greetings, Hemos, and welcome to Boston!

Slamming is quite illegal. If you have the bill in hand which demonstrates you have been slammed, report them to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Department of Telecommunications and Energy -- Consumer Division. The DTE is the regulatory body which governs utility companies. (I worked for them once, and oh, the stories I can tell...)

I just called the MA DTE on the phone (617 727-3531) and asked them: They said that if more than 20 people complained, a fine might be assessed against the slamming company. They also keep stats on slams.

As it happens, I just switched from AT&T to MCI/WorldCom. In the course of doing this I discovered that Verizon (my local bell) has an optional free feature, whereby they will not change your long distance service unless you personally call them up and authorize it; they make you testify to a 3rd party verification service (who tapes you) that you want your service change. Ask MediaOne if they will do it; I bet they will.

In any event: IFF you cannot get satisfaction on a (any) dispute with your phone (or gas, or electricity) co. after contacting them directly, then contact the DTE. On your phone bill, usually on the back of the first page, you will find a phone number for the DTE Consumer Division, or you may file a complaint electronically here. You must try to iron things out with the company directly, first, then the DTE will talk to you.

Re:PUC + TCPA = LART

[Tackhead]

> [troll them for legitimate info then apply LART]

Actually, I've been tempted to do just that, but they haven't called me in a few months. I guess when I said "This is the third call I've received on behalf of AT&T in violation of TCPA" and they drone wimped out and hung up, he put me on the real do-not-call (read: "The guys who actually wants to sue us, as opposed to just get us to stop calling" list) list.

The real catch-22 of getting the info you need to sue (theoretically, all I need to do is sue AT&T) is that it'd be useful to know which telemarketing company called me.

F'rinstance, it'd be a much stronger case (in the eyes of a judge, who may never have dealt with a TCPA case before) to say "XYZ Drone Services" called me twice, rather than "XYZ Drone Services" called me once, I told them to put me on the do-not-call, and "ABC Droid Services" called me tomorrow.

The judge could say "It's illegal, AT&T's responsible, but it's forgivable because there's no way ABCDroid could have known about your opt-out to XYZDrone in 24 hours. Two calls from XYZDrone would be pretty bulletproof, though.

Probably the only way to get that information ("Why, I'm calling from AT&T!", "No, I want the name of the company on your paycheck, not the company that hired your firm") in the context of a telemarketing call for long distance services would be to pretend to be someone interested in working at the telemarketing company. ("Hey, I need some extra dough, where do I sign up?")

Finally, when you get to court, you have to remember you're dealing with telemarketers. Unless it's legal to record a telephone conversation where only one party (you) is aware of the recording, it's highly probable that even if XYZDrone called you twice, their representative would just lie on the stand and say "no, we only called him once", or "we never called him after he asked to be put on the do-not-call list". It'd be your word against his, as you couldn't prove it without a recording of both calls identifying the telemarketer as an employee of XYZDrone.

If you live in a state where all parties must consent to recording, in order to prove that the marketer is perjuring itself, you'd have to admit under oath that you'd broken your state's eavesdropping laws. This would be a Bad Move(tm).

> While I largely agree with your rant, I would have moderated you down as flamebait
> for the gratuitously graphic profanity...

Yeah, it was a bit over-the-top, wasn't it? :-)

Seriously, as for the flamebait/trollishness, Slashdot moderation's probably gonna be even more fup'd-uck than normal today.

Personally, when I saw the Score:5 on my rant, I'd have gone for a (-1, Redundant) than a (-1, Overrated). You're quite correct in that there are lots of posts with a higher S:N ratio, particularly when it comes to using one's state PUC to LART for slamming, as opposed to the TCPA for illegal telemarketing. That technique is probably much more effective than suing 'em under TCPA. PUCs have the time and budget to win these cases, individuals using TCPA often have to spend a lot of time and effort. Go the TCPA route if you like fighting for the general principle, the PUC route for damaging the enemy.

FWIW, when I made the post, I figured my post was worth about a 4, tops, and that's with one of those points being a "Funny" for the ranting. The 5 surprised me too.

PUC + TCPA = LART

[Tackhead]

First off - fuck AT&T and all their telemarketers with a wire brush. (Fuck all telemarketers with a wire brush, but start with AT&T's. When you're done with the rest of the telemarketers, give AT&T's another go-around with the wire brush.)

I've received numerous telemarketers trying to pimp AT&T long distance - and the past few have been in blatant violation of the TCPA.

Regrettably, the TCPA is toothless in that the telemarkters hang up (making the $500 violation a willful $1500 violation) as soon as I say "This call is in violation of the TCPA. Please state your name". Of course, since they've blocked their number, I can't get the evidence I need to launch the suit.

But anyways - fuck AT&T long distance and their telemarketers with wire brushes. I'll never do business with AT&T as long as I live, despite the fact that their junk-snail-mail arm has sent me multiple $90.00 "checks" as inducements to switch.

As for Katz, or anyone else who's getting multiple illegal telephone solicitations, if you're really pissed, there may be ways to obtain the phone numbers of the telemarketers (e.g. use the "trace/harassing calls" process and file suit, then have your landshark get the number from the cops) - and sue the motherfuckers for $500 (or $1500 for willful violation) per call.

Also, the Public Utilities Commission has a wide array of LARTs at its disposal, and they hate slammers as much as we do. Dunno what they can do about telemarketers per se, however. But if a telemarketer is habitually slamming, the PUC can apply serious mofo pressure to the offending phone company.

Did I mention I hate telemarketers, and especially AT&T's? (Fuck 'em with a wire brush! Fuck 'em until their guts bleed! Shove light bulbs up their arses and turn 'em on until they start to cook! Then tell 'em they can stop the burning by clenching their sphincters until they shatter the bulb! I hate telemarketers!)

Bottom line. Sue the motherfuckers into the stone age. Let the lawyers do the wire-brush stuff. Sell tickets to the courtroom.

How rich are you, -Ben?

[zorgon]

Lawyers (real ones) cost $100 / hr and up. Most people who post to /. are pretty low-rent operations and can't afford that (did you get the clue that this was Hemos' home and not Slashdot Corporate Headquarters)? Thus the large grey market in boneheaded amateur legal opinion. And increased resentment of attorneys. Nothing to do with /. per se but kind of a nationwide phenom. Private citizens should not have to retain attorneys to compel corporations to comply with the law! I'm with Hemos on this one, sorry.

I've been Slammed, too.

[andyfsu99]

I, too, have been slammed, in this case by Sprint over Qwest. When I moved to North Carolina, I chose Qwest as my long distance provider, because they had the best rates for what I wanted at the time. Then, one day, I got a phone bill with Sprint charges.

I quickly called Bell South and Qwest and got myself switched back to the way I had it before, then put a lock on my line. The lock, which everyone should have (and should be the default) prevents your LD carrier from being changed unless you call your local carrier and tell them it is ok.

They claim that placing this 'lock' on your LD carrier is not the default case because it would be too inconvenient. Personally, I think that 'locked' should be the default for any phone service -- if you want to change it, you should have to explicitly tell the phone company.