Slashdot Mirror

THE REASON so many of us find that "oh, there's no PostgreSQL stuff around"
is because if you try finding a *platform*, like Tiki CMS or Elgg, that runs on PostgreSQL, you won't find much/any...
( I've found the PostgreSQL compatibility listed in Wikipedia, or in documentation, is usually bogus:
it hadn't any maintainer, therefore it got shut-off, long ago, nearly always )

There's complete disconnect between the dbms development among those *who value and need COMPETENCE*,
and the platform people who rely-on WHATEVER IS POPULAR...

Please, PLEASE, I BEG you,
make the best platforms PostgreSQL capable, for our world's sake
( if everyone relies on corrupt means, only-corrupt-means remain, eventually:
Darwinism selects-out the minority answers, relentlessly )
and for *our data*'s sake...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infoworld_Bossie_Awards
for a list of projects that are known-good
that maybe could benefit from the greater-trustworthyness of PostgreSQL compatibility

( I'd ad VTiger CRM to their list, as VTiger lets you own your data, unlike going with many of the CRM services out there
https://www.vtiger.com/crm/open-source-downloads/
https://www.vtiger.com/crm/help/
https://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Main_Page
  )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_social_networking_software
for the Big List...

and for 2 that could do great good, in my view, easily...
http://info.tiki.org/tiki-index.php

http://elgg.org/

You make TRUSTWORTHY infrastructure more-likely to be what market-selection leaves our world with,
and you have made *significant* positive difference among our world.

Another thing you could consider doing is making some updated-equivalent to "Databases Demystified", but based-on PostgreSQL,
and making it available either totally-gratis,
or as low-priced epub/kindle books,
or as pdfs rigged so that it's in roughly 24pt font,
so that ereaders can display them legibly...

Make good difference, please, and consider where the leverage would be greatest for our world's living good!

Namaste, eh?

THE REASON so many of us find that "oh, there's no PostgreSQL stuff around"
is because if you try finding a *platform*, like Tiki CMS or Elgg, that runs on PostgreSQL, you won't find much/any...
( I've found the PostgreSQL compatibility listed in Wikipedia, or in documentation, is usually bogus:
it hadn't any maintainer, therefore it got shut-off, long ago, nearly always )

There's complete disconnect between the dbms development among those *who value and need COMPETENCE*,
and the platform people who rely-on WHATEVER IS POPULAR...

Please, PLEASE, I BEG you,
make the best platforms PostgreSQL capable, for our world's sake
( if everyone relies on corrupt means, only-corrupt-means remain, eventually:
Darwinism selects-out the minority answers, relentlessly )
and for *our data*'s sake...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infoworld_Bossie_Awards
for a list of projects that are known-good
that maybe could benefit from the greater-trustworthyness of PostgreSQL compatibility

( I'd ad VTiger CRM to their list, as VTiger lets you own your data, unlike going with many of the CRM services out there
https://www.vtiger.com/crm/open-source-downloads/
https://www.vtiger.com/crm/help/
https://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Main_Page
  )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_social_networking_software
for the Big List...

and for 2 that could do great good, in my view, easily...
http://info.tiki.org/tiki-index.php

http://elgg.org/

You make TRUSTWORTHY infrastructure more-likely to be what market-selection leaves our world with,
and you have made *significant* positive difference among our world.

Another thing you could consider doing is making some updated-equivalent to "Databases Demystified", but based-on PostgreSQL,
and making it available either totally-gratis,
or as low-priced epub/kindle books,
or as pdfs rigged so that it's in roughly 24pt font,
so that ereaders can display them legibly...

Make good difference, please, and consider where the leverage would be greatest for our world's living good!

Namaste, eh?

THE REASON so many of us find that "oh, there's no PostgreSQL stuff around"
is because if you try finding a *platform*, like Tiki CMS or Elgg, that runs on PostgreSQL, you won't find much/any...
( I've found the PostgreSQL compatibility listed in Wikipedia, or in documentation, is usually bogus:
it hadn't any maintainer, therefore it got shut-off, long ago, nearly always )

There's complete disconnect between the dbms development among those *who value and need COMPETENCE*,
and the platform people who rely-on WHATEVER IS POPULAR...

Please, PLEASE, I BEG you,
make the best platforms PostgreSQL capable, for our world's sake
( if everyone relies on corrupt means, only-corrupt-means remain, eventually:
Darwinism selects-out the minority answers, relentlessly )
and for *our data*'s sake...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infoworld_Bossie_Awards
for a list of projects that are known-good
that maybe could benefit from the greater-trustworthyness of PostgreSQL compatibility

( I'd ad VTiger CRM to their list, as VTiger lets you own your data, unlike going with many of the CRM services out there
https://www.vtiger.com/crm/open-source-downloads/
https://www.vtiger.com/crm/help/
https://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Main_Page
  )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_social_networking_software
for the Big List...

and for 2 that could do great good, in my view, easily...
http://info.tiki.org/tiki-index.php

http://elgg.org/

You make TRUSTWORTHY infrastructure more-likely to be what market-selection leaves our world with,
and you have made *significant* positive difference among our world.

Another thing you could consider doing is making some updated-equivalent to "Databases Demystified", but based-on PostgreSQL,
and making it available either totally-gratis,
or as low-priced epub/kindle books,
or as pdfs rigged so that it's in roughly 24pt font,
so that ereaders can display them legibly...

Make good difference, please, and consider where the leverage would be greatest for our world's living good!

Namaste, eh?

You mean like this?
http://www.vtiger.com/

then one paying customer can take the source and fork it back out to everybody else for gratis.

And that's vTiger, see a comparative review between the two.

Check out vtiger

SugarCRM has been guilty of decepting customers with their "open source" claims in the past. They originally released under a modified Mozilla public license (the Sugar Public License), with requirements that derivatives remove any and all SugarCRM branding. A few enterprising folks forked it to form vtiger, which supposedly led to SugarCRM threatening to file suit for actually exercising their rights outlined under the license, and the CEO publicly lambasting the vtiger folks for actually taking SugarCRM up on their offer extended by the original SPL.

http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=11
http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/rich-tehrani/crm/sugarcrm-vs-vtiger.html
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=188554&cid=15541264
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/is-sugarcrm-open-source/867

I've posted previously about sugar vs. vtiger before:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=223770&cid=18118754 (which drew out anti-F/OSS zealots and folks who didn't bother to read the licenses fully and obviously did not compare it to the previous SPL as it was originally written and released)

Now, the SugarCRM folks may have updated their licensing to remove the restrictions about moving to the free/community edition after having used the "enterprise" edition but honestly those folks were so scummy when they threw a fit after folks actually exercised their rights to create a derivative project that I can't be bothered to check.

Does vtiger functionality stack up well against SugarCRM's enterprise version? Not exactly. However, reverse is also true; vtiger offers some bells and whistles you don't get with Sugar - but in any event, vtiger does not use a license to try to restrict using your own data in another product.

Don't get me wrong: SugarCRM is a pretty good product, but I don't like to use products made by companies which engage in deceptive practices, even when some of the product editions may be "free."

Check out vtiger

SugarCRM has been guilty of decepting customers with their "open source" claims in the past. They originally released under a modified Mozilla public license (the Sugar Public License), with requirements that derivatives remove any and all SugarCRM branding. A few enterprising folks forked it to form vtiger, which supposedly led to SugarCRM threatening to file suit for actually exercising their rights outlined under the license, and the CEO publicly lambasting the vtiger folks for actually taking SugarCRM up on their offer extended by the original SPL.

http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=11
http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/rich-tehrani/crm/sugarcrm-vs-vtiger.html
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=188554&cid=15541264
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/is-sugarcrm-open-source/867

I've posted previously about sugar vs. vtiger before:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=223770&cid=18118754 (which drew out anti-F/OSS zealots and folks who didn't bother to read the licenses fully and obviously did not compare it to the previous SPL as it was originally written and released)

Now, the SugarCRM folks may have updated their licensing to remove the restrictions about moving to the free/community edition after having used the "enterprise" edition but honestly those folks were so scummy when they threw a fit after folks actually exercised their rights to create a derivative project that I can't be bothered to check.

Does vtiger functionality stack up well against SugarCRM's enterprise version? Not exactly. However, reverse is also true; vtiger offers some bells and whistles you don't get with Sugar - but in any event, vtiger does not use a license to try to restrict using your own data in another product.

Don't get me wrong: SugarCRM is a pretty good product, but I don't like to use products made by companies which engage in deceptive practices, even when some of the product editions may be "free."

Hola, I've implemented VtigerCRM, a real open source CRM, it's like Sugar CRM with vitamins. Check it out at : http://www.vtiger.com/ untaldouglas http://www.arondeir.com/ Becouse traveling without telling about, it's no traveling !

vTiger http://www.vtiger.com/ is much easier to get running than SugarCRM, IME.
Also vTiger is completely open source - no closed source parts or parts that you need to pay for to get.

I don't know anything about non-profits, but CRM systems do work well with keeping track of clients/customers.

You can pay a hosting service or install vTiger on your own server(s). We run vTiger in a VM on a server with 5 other VMs. No performance issues at all. We don't even follow best practices on disk setup, no LVM here, just full disk images (not sparse).

Buddy, why waste time with this? Go to http://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Vtiger_CRM_5.0.3_ -_Installation_Manual_for_Linux#Linux_Dependency_P ackages and read "imap-2004d" under _all_ Linux distros. And if you try instaling vTiger w/o it it will complain the imap support is missing.

What!? vTiger is solid, and quite easy to set up. It can use localhost as the mail server, or connect to just about any type of mail server (see link): http://wiki.vtiger.com/index.php/Vtiger_CRM_5.0.3_ Web_mail_-_Working_Scenarios. It also has an optional "Customer Portal" so that customers can log in and create their own issues if you so choose.

Vtiger CRM 5 is what we have been using in the office for tracking tickets/accounts between 6 techs in 3 remote offices. Works great and it is AJAX based, so it is very customizable and easy to put a web portal up with for tickets on the go. Very, very easy to configure and pretty darn user friendly.

http://vtiger.com/

Check out Vtiger, it's a really nice CRM and also has ticketing features.

Yeah, but there is always VTiger

and their licencing is:

vtiger's modifications to the SugarCRM code are under vtiger Public License 1.1 based on Mozilla Public License (MPL). Additional components written by vtiger, not coming under the purview of the SPL, are provided under MPL

Sugar CRM Open source is great until you want to use it with Outlook integration. Then their outlook plugin costs you a arm and leg per PC and does not work with the Open source version.

We completely switched to http://www.vtiger.com/ as it's 100% open source including the Outlook and office integration.

Yeah, I would prefer that we dont use Look-out and orfice at work, but teaching sales people slightly different tasks is like having a spike driven through your skull.

VTiger forked off from them when they first changed the license. Maybe this will result in a decent working outlook plugin for Sugar too.

Thank you Bruce. Someone needed to explain the situation a little better.

I've seen this problem for a while from my experience with SugarCRM. They use a modified Mozilla Public License Version 1.1 (SugarCRM Public License) that requires attribution with a logo on the bottom of every page. This was not the case initially but when SugarCRM was at version 1.5 a company used the Open Source license to create their own product (vTiger CRM) and it pissed off the people at Sugar so they changed the license. Now on the vTiger homepage they advertise with "Tired of kinda, sorta Open Source? Get the honest Open Source: vTiger CRM". SugarCRM isn't really Open Source. They are just profiting from using that term.

I am glad OSI is cracking down. These companies are misleading consumers into thinking they have certain freedoms because their software is "Open Source" but it really isn't. Oh, and don't give me that crap about you can define Open Source however you want. Open Source needs to have a concrete definition or it means nothing. Companies like SugarCRM are damaging that definition. If everyone got to define Open Source it would have no definition.

There's also vtiger: http://www.vtiger.com/.

It's a forked version of SugarCRM, by devs who aren't douche bags when it comes to open source procedure.

http://www.vtiger.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=22

Their original SPL was basically a search and replace of "Mozilla" in the MPL, replacing "Mozilla" with "Sugar"

After another group *gasp* dared exercise their rights provided for in the SPL(MPL), they threatened to sue, pissed and moaned, complained because trademarks were removed (Uh, They HAD to remove trademarks for redistribution of a modifief variant to be compliant with your license!)

Since then SugarCRM has NOT been open source; it has been shared source. Here's why:

You cannot derive a new product from SugarCRM; for all practical purposes, the "license" forbids it.

The license allows you to view and modify the source, and extend to it
If you contribute code to the core project, you give all ownership and credits to SugarCRM. OK, fine, I can buy that you give ownership to them, but you should be able to be credited in your code contribution.

If you ever subscribe to the Pro/Enterprise version of Sugar, you agree to waive your rights to use the "Open Source" edition ever again, and are "forbidden" to take your Pro/Enterprise database and import the data into the "Open Source" edition.

I hardly consider that to be open source, or to be in the spirit of open source.

If you need a CRM, I highly recommend vTiger over SugarCRM.

Haven't tried it myself, but has anyone tried Vtiger?

Open source Outlook synchronizer plugin:
http://www.vtiger.com/products/crm/microsoft-outlo ok-integration.html

http://sourceforge.net/projects/vtigercrm
http://www.vtiger.com/

Haven't tried it myself, but has anyone tried Vtiger?

Open source Outlook synchronizer plugin:
http://www.vtiger.com/products/crm/microsoft-outlo ok-integration.html

http://sourceforge.net/projects/vtigercrm
http://www.vtiger.com/