Domain: windowmaker.info
Stories and comments across the archive that link to windowmaker.info.
Comments · 16
-
Re:This is what I'd like to see.
The problem is that the default Ubuntu GNOME window manager is trying to emulate Windows, but it's different, so they think it's going to be like Windows, but are surprised when "Hey, this doesn't work like it does on XP!" You need to give them something better than a Windows UI clone. You're one "apt-get" away from Unix-style WMs available for Ubuntu like AfterStep, FVWM, Enlightenment, or FluxBox. Getting accustomed to classic X window managers (not "I'm copying Windows" window managers) will not only show them "We're not on Windows anymore," but require them to see that there's more to the computing world than Windows.
Imagine you woke up one morning and found yourself in China. It's different, but you know it's different. If people in China act differently or have different customs, the language is different, places have different names, someone can just explain that you're in China, and even if you didn't know a thing about China, you would know that it's a foreign country and you need to learn some new things. New Linux users would understand it better, too. "I'm on Linux, things are different. This makes perfect sense. Why should Linux be exactly like Windows? VHS and Betamax are different, British cars are different, Linux is different too." Now if you suddenly woke up in a place that looked at first glance just like America (assuming you're American), and Wal-Mart becomes the most expensive store, people speak backwards Esperanto, and drive on the left side of the road, you would be confused, and maybe a little scared, wondering why these familiar-looking things suddenly act so strangely. It's the same thing with GNOME.
GNOME gives a false sense of familiarity, which would tend to scare users away. If users say that "Linux" is scary, it's probably because GNOME doesn't act how they expect. They wouldn't even mention something like AfterStep, because they probably don't even know about AfterStep OR know that the window manager could be easily replaced. There's nothing "automagic" about Windows. Windows takes just as much time to learn as any of these, and Windows is so 1995, anyway.
AfterStep
OpenWindows
Enlightenment
WindowMaker
FluxBox
FVWM
Your users (I'm guessing) probably never used anything except for Windows. Maybe the reason why they never got interested in computers is because of the unintuitive Windows 95 interface. Maybe they'd find one of these more intuitive. -
Re:Try Windows 7?
WindowMaker is still alive and kicking.
Easy to customise if you want some semi-shinies, and works great for low-end machines and VNC sessions.
It's available in OpenSUSE and (IIRC) Ubuntu, and probably other distros as well.
-
Re:Most users don't
Does WindowMaker not work for you anymore? The last release (0.92.0, from 2005) stills works fine for me. There is a beta 0.92.1 version available here, from November 2008. I have it running in Fedora 11. But really, WindowMaker is in a good, stable state and I'm not sure what else needs to be done with it, as far as development.
If you want something that's similar, there's Etoile.
-
Re:Went with Linux
I did eventually get my Linux to connect to the ISP, but the compression engine/accelerator refuses to run, which makes everything extremely slow (50k versus ~500k).
Toonel.net seems to be a cross-platform web accelerator. May be worth a try.
Another problem happened when I changed my resolution to 1024x800 - when I tried to change it back to 1280x1024 the dialog box was too big, and I couldn't access the OK button since it was offscreen. I'm still stuck at the wrong resolution.
This is different in different window managers, but there is usually a key you can hold down to move windows more easily. Try holding down alt, grabbing the window near the bottom and dragging it until the button is visible.
Or just change it from the terminal, by typing: xrandr --mode 1024x800
(With Windows pressing the enter button auto-selects OK, but not with Linux.)
This derives from IBM's Common User Access standard. GNOME's interface guidelines (which should apply to the Ubuntu program you're running) also mention this, but don't explicitly stress always setting the OK button as default. So it's probably a bug.
So I think I'm going to use the WinXP Restore CD to wipe Linux off my laptop. From what I can see, XP and Mac OS are both more user-friendly than Ubuntu.
Yes, this is the problem with trying to build a copy of the Windows GUI: the small differences put people off. But if you want to assemble a more customized environment out of different components, Linux can be much nicer environment.
I just switched from a Mac to a system running Arch Linux with Window Maker as the window manager (no GNOME or KDE). It's a bit fiddlier to set up than the Mac, but much cleaner and lighter.
-
Re:window maker ???
From the homepage:
We are currently working on reimplementing the site in a more modern, safe fashion, while at the same time restoring all services required for development and communication. With that said, we are working very hard to revitalize Window Maker's presence on X Window (and perhaps beyond) desktops. With this new focus, we can now truly assert that Window Maker will be resuming active development very soon.
That was seven months ago.
-
Re:Precisly the missing part of LinuxDoes that include an exact replica of the dock working exactly the same as in OS X? I'm asking seriously as that is the only thing I want from OS X when I am using Linux. KDE? Not that I know of.
However, I was using WindowMaker before I ever touched OS X. It's not an "exact replica" in that it looks very different -- downright ugly, compared to OS X -- but it functions pretty much the same. They share common roots, in any case -- NeXT. -
Today's story
Me: Hello!
Admin: Hi!
Me: I have a request for you. Could you please install Suse 10.3 on my computer, it is still running Suse 9.3
(sidenote: every other guy already has open 10.2, every other guy who knows at my place)
Admin: Why?
Me: It has OpenOffice.
Admin: 9.3 has StarOffice 7
Me: But it does not support ODF files.
Admin: Ok I will do that.
Me: I have another request for you. Could you please install WindowMaker and rxvt-unicode?
Admin: What is this WindowMaker?
Me: It is a window manager.
(Admin fires up yast2. WindowMaker is there, explained as: "a fancy windowmanager". I hate Suse team. The term "fancy" is not even on .
Admin: Huh! Yet another window manager. Could you please tell me a reason why should I install it?
Me: WindowMaker was already installed in 9.3...
Admin: 9.3 does not count.
Me: Because I use it?
Admin: Don't give that as a reason. Use is not a reason. You know that KDE is the supported windo manager on my system?
Me: Yes I know.
Admin: Then why can't you use KDE? Tell me, why you need another window manager when everyone else is using KDE?
Me: That is not true, Horsch uses FVWM...
Admin: Horsch manages his own system, and he doesn't use BitTorrent!
Me: I did it once, I DIDN't do it ever again!
(Admin looks rxvt-unicode in yast2)
Admin: This program is very small, it can be installed without any trouble.
Me: Thanks, see you.
Huh! I hate my system administrator, I love Linux and I still hate my machine! Kudos to him for causing this much trouble. -
Re:I was there
WindowMaker and Enlightenment
I still use the wallpapers from Rob's 2001-inspired, "Obsidian" theme.
Do you remember when building Enlightenment required the X-Free tools and xmkmf -
Re:It doesn't look that good..
It's just standard Slashdot groupthink: KDE bad, GNOME good. It dates back to a long, long time ago when Qt was released under a non-free licence. Nowadays it's GPL (not LGPL, but the full-on GPL; which means that non-free applications can't even link to it, so up yours, you leech) but some people have failed to get with the programme and still blame the kids for crimes committed by the great-great-grandparents.
I prefer Window Maker myself anyway, but I think I'm in a minority ..... not that that matters much anyway. -
Blind Costs. GNU/Linux UI Last Longer.
It's amazing how people can be so blind to the TCO of Windoze:
There are a lot of extra costs and little have to do with Linux but selling a product in an area where there is little demmand.
Now you understand the man's frustration with Vista. Really. Every few years M$ changes their UI without substantial changes to anything else. Vista is the most radical change since 3.1 to 95, yet people like you just take that cost for granted.
With GNU/Linux, on the other hand, you have a choice of UIs and they remain the same over decades. Have you ever seen the first web browser, made in 1990? Compare that interface to Window Maker or AfterStep, which have been stable for almost as long and is still available to those who want it. Those are only the beginning of your choices and they all work well together.
-
Looks like WindowMaker!
http://www.windowmaker.info/
Why couldn't the Etoile guys just enhance WindowMaker instead? It seems a bit like they are reinventing the wheel. -
Re:Multi-core is good for jobsIn other words, I don't think that I wasted my money by buying a Core 2 Duo laptop instead of a single core machine. I notice a very real performance improvement because of an extra core. I run a numerical simulation module on one core and the system and other stuff like browsing the web and office apps can have an extra core all to themselves! You can do it very likely even better: just run two numerical applications simultaneously (provided of course that there is enough memory and any kind of "farming" parallelism present in your calculation). On Core 2 anyway kernel and most of the GUI take so little CPU (and there you can also switch to a lighter GUI, I use WindowMaker) that even with only one core free and lots of GUI stuff running (like browser and multimedia) there is still plenty of remaining CPU time available...
-
Re:Hidden Gem
I have two tool docks open in GIMP: One has toolbox, another has layers/palettes/etc.
Having multiple documents open is never pain, because my toolbox is always on left, my other dock is always on right, and the windows are resized so that they overlap with the dock windows but leave a part of them at sight. Need the dock? It's right on sight, just click on it to raise it.
Multiple applications? Um, that's what virtual desktops are for. Need to use another application on the same desktop? I hit Alt+H to hide GIMP, along with all of its windows, to use them. Resume? Middle click on desktop, select any of GIMP's windows from the list, and there we go.
The lesson learned - GIMP isn't pain to use if you use a window manager that doesn't suck. Like Window Maker.
-
Windomaker isn't dead.
For some reason, they've moved to www.windowmaker.info. If you look, the last release was 0.92 in July '05, and they have a month old news item apologizing for the downtime and announcing they are (mostly) back.
-
Going off KDE
I think I'm going off KDE.
It's nice on a fast machine, but tediously slow on anything under 2GHz. I do like Window Maker. It's a bit different than you probably were expecting, but I think it's a bit truer to what X used to be like before everyone started trying to turn it into Windows. -
good grief... desktop choice
Why do you think you need the latest/greatest KDE/GNOME to replace Win98? The machine is still Win98-era, so that's about the best you should be able to expect from it and get decent performance. Choose a lesser desktop...you can probably find one that still has feature-parity to Win98 by looking through Windowmaker, XFCE, Equinox, Blackbox, IceWM, etc. - and you'll get decent performance.