Domain: wvi.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to wvi.com.
Comments · 17
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Re:Yes, yes it could. Did, in fact
Wow, great article! And yes, it was atypical. In comparison take a look at the final, record setting flight of one of the SR-71 Blackbirds. The flight chart shows the looping at each end, and they claim a couple of intermediate records of city pairs that they strictly overflew.
I especially remember this flight because I was living in the San Fernando valley when the flight took place, and heard the sonic boom as it went by.
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Re:Too realistic?
Private Pilot flies the SR-71 simulator: http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/srsim~1.htm
Private Pilots fly the Mig-29 (with a Russian Pilot in the 2nd seat) http://plan9.bell-labs.com/who/ken/mig.html -
Re:A few comments...
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That'd be the VB copter
The US probably won't release it because the blue nackground colour & white bunches of hex numbers are so embarrassing.
They should send sr71.rb instead. They've got dozens of those Habus in museums. A tank of fuel, literally a couple of hours, and they're delivered. Just add a handful of light missiles to each (shells are too slow) and you're away! -
Re:Area 51 is not UnidentifiedThat at once point (probably a while ago) we did "capture" a MiG or whatever. I think it went along the lines that he had to land for mechanical failure or we forced him to land or something.
Sep 6, 1976. Lt. Victor Belenko defected with a MiG-25 to Japan. We inspected it in depth, and sent it back. In boxes.
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Re:Obligatory Question
The FAA regulates all airspace from ground up to 60,000 ft. ("Flight Level 600").
This airspace is broken up into different airspaces depending upon a number of details, including the presence and type of airports, common routes of air traffic, and terrain. At the upper end, "Class A" airspace is only used by aircraft flying IFR ("Instrument Flight Rules") under air traffic control.
Rob Machado, a popular aviation educator and humorist, likes to relate a story (which I will paraphrase here). The ATC was contacted by an aircraft requesting clearance for FL 750. ATC replied thinking that it was a joke, "OK, if you can get that high." The aircraft responded, "Roger, descending to FL 750." The aircraft in question was a US military SR-71 Blackbird.
I can't wait for formal rules for a new suborbital class of airspace - it'll mean that we're that much closes to casual space flight. -
Re:Aerospace analysts are always too optimistic
Ah hem. The MIG-25 used jet engines...
Standard production Mig-25s had jet engines. Many of the Mig-25s used for breaking records were often either rocket-powered or rocket-assisted, like the E-266.
Ok, so it trashed its engines each time it did mach 3.2
The US clocked a Mig-25 over Israel flying Mach 3.2 in 1973, but like you said, its engines were completely destroyed (beyond a simple rebuild I think). :-), but nevertherless as I understand it, it just barely holds the record over the SR-71. The difference is that the SR-71 can keep up it's speed for hours; whereas the MIG-25 needs an engine rebuild after a few minutes at those speeds.
The Guinness Book of World Records, which is meticulous in verifying records, lists the SR-71 as the Fastest Jet. They have a separate category for the Mig-25, Fastest Combat Jet. According to this, the SR-71's top speed is over Mach 3.2. Its actual top speed is still classified.
According to the organization that certifies aviation world records, the Federation Aeronautique Internationale, the SR-71 still holds the Absolute record for Speed over a closed circuit. The Mig-25 has no records listed, but its variants the E-266 and E-266M still hold some current records.
One record the E-266 still holds is Speed over a closed circuit of 100 km without payload, at 2605.10 km/h. I'd assume the SR-71 wasn't even submitted in this category, since its record in the category Speed over a closed circuit of 1000 km without payload of 3367.22 km/h greatly surpasses the other record, and over a longer distance. -
Re:Good to know...
go to nyc and visit the uss intrepid and you too can see and touch one. well, it's an a-12 blackbird, which is in the same family of aircraft and in fact were reclassified to the more commonly known sr71 later on after modifcations (most folks would assume they are one and the same anyway as they look nearly identical).
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Re:Su-30 series or Quality/Quantity
"There is a good example of an air combat situation atht happened in the first gulf war. The only western plane to be shot down in air combat was an F-18 on an attack mission that was intercepted by an obviously experienced Iraqi Mig-25 pilot. The Mig-25 was already obsolete then in terms of technology but the sheer speed of the plane (Mach 2.8+) is unmatched by any other fighter. The Mig-25 went on after shooting down the F-18 to buzz an EF-111 raven that was providing ECM for the mission causing the raven to have to manouver to avoid the incoming missiles and drop back from the attack mission which was then unprotected by ECM and subsequently another F-18 was shot down by a SAM. No less than two F-15's and two F-16's all attempted to intercept the Mig-25, two of them firing missiles, but the Mig-25 used it's tremendous speed advantage to easily avoid the interceptors and reach its base."
The Mig-25 borders on a desparation weapon. It was designed specifically to counter high altitude bombers and spy planes that the United States routinely flew over Soviet airspace. In that it failed. It's fairly clear today that a Mig-25 could not sustain the speed or attain the altitude necessary to attack an SR-71.
The Soviet Union pawned off various models of the Mig-25 to the third world. Iraq had probably 15 Mig-25s at the start of the Gulf War (the first), of which perhaps 7 were operational.
The shootdown happened because the Mig was misidentified multiple times as it flew past an American strike package. Had it been identified, it would have been killed. The shootdown was more the result of tactics than technology. That Mig pilot was both brave and lucky.
The Mig was not moving at Mach 2.8. A Mig-25 can only do this at high altitude (70K+) and only for a short time. The shootdown happened between 25-30K, where the F-18's were operating. Flying at almost Mach 3 destroys the engines of a Mig-25. This isn't a problem if you're goal is to hit one high-value, high-altitude target and glide back to base. It does matter if you intend to engage in sustained warfare.
In 1976, a Soviet defector landed a 1976-built Mig-25 in Japan. A few interesting things were learned; with a full load of weapons and fuel a Mig-25 can handle only slightly more than 2Gs of force. At it's best it can handle about 5gs. This is no dog fighter. An F-4 can do better, much less any modern aircraft. -
Re:Exposure to vacuum
Exactly. Once you pass Armstrong's line, (apx 63,000 ft.) removing yourself from a pressure suit will boil off your blood and other bodily fluids nearly instantly. Possibly even the water in each individual cell would boil off bursting each individual cell if the pressure were low enough.
I mean immagine that. It's not like putting a bomb in a building. It's like putting a bomb in a building, AND putting a small explosive charge INSIDE every brick and every beam and every plank of wood that makes up the building. Then detonating it all at once.
Best case, a few seconds to live. Worst case, death would be immidiate. Or possibly reverse that, depending on your point of view. -
I dig the tech
I dig the tech
... but from preceding comments I believe that a somewhat false impression has been made on a few people: There is indeed this fantastic engine which can reasonably efficiently propel you around the globe at speeds exceeding that of sound by a factor greater than the number of finger most people have on one hand - but: it has to be accelerated to more than twice the speed of the fastest jet aircraft built to date for it even to ignite.
I once had this motorbike I always had to push start. It was quite annoying. -
Re:Russians first?
>Comparing a Mig-25 to a SR-71 is ludicrous
Mig-25 "FoxBat Vs The SR-71 "Blackbird"
Ability to intercept an SR-71: Belenko states the Mig-25 cannot intercept the SR-71 for several reasons: The SR-71 fly too high and too fast; the Mig cannot reach it or catch it. The missiles lack the velocity to overtake the SR-71 and in the event of a head on missile fire (The Golden BB), the Guidance system cannot adjust to the high closure rate of the SR-71. -
Re:jet altitude record
I have done some checking up, and it seems the record the article refers to is for altitude in horizontal flight. The official record is held by the SR-71 (more details). Apparently a Mig-25 or SR-71 can go much higher than that (more than 120,000 feet) if you just go up at an angle of about 60 degrees. I would guess that at some point around 100,000 feet the engine does not get enough air to work very well at all, and the flight is basically just ballistic at the top.
Anyway, the jet aircraft records use military aircraft which, although they may be stripped down, still have to carry a pilot and weigh a huge amount more than the flying wing. So the various records are each very impressive in their own ways. -
Re:Mach 1 != 1000mphAs I remember it, the SR71 blackbird (picture) was able to get to speeds beyond mach 2....
One SR71 page claims that:
The Blackbird, code-named Oxcart during its development, flies on a tremendous 65,000 lbs. of thrust at an altitude of 100,000+ feet at Mach 3.5, and has a range of four thousand miles.That is not only four times faster than the U-2 but seven miles higher - and the U-2 was then the current high-altitude champion. For a long time the Air Force claimed a maximum speed of Mach 3.2 and an operational ceiling of 85,000 feet, but we now know that the SR-71 can soar above 100,000 feet. Some military pilots claim altitudes in excess of 125,000 feet but this is probably stretching it a bit. [....]
Another site also has references to "mach 3+". Apparently the 'official' claims of mach 3.1 were for security reasons. That speed record was smashed (as I remember it) during one of the SR-71 decomissioning flights (they were decomissioned in the '80s, then recomissioned in the '90s.)Hmm... and a page on the Mig-25 vs the SR-71 notes that (for the Russian MIG-25):
Above Mach 2.8 the engines would overheat and burn up. The Americans had clocked a Mig-25 over Israel at Mach 3.2 in 1973. Upon landing in Egypt, the engines were totally destroyed. We did not understand that the engine destruction was inevitable.
So a Mig-25 was able to get close to an SR-71's cruising speed -- if you were willing to destroy the engine... (this was especially dangerous, since the Mig-25 apparently had no ejection seat).This 'couple of hundred extra MPH' is almost a full MACH (if you compare the cruising speeds of the MIG-25 and the SR-71). Remember, as well, that e=v^2 -- so the 1.25 speed difference is about 1.56 times the heat produced.Over a 1 or 2 hour flight (the endurance record is somethint like 10 hours), that can be a lot of heat to dissapate -- and anything like a radiator is going to mess with your aerodynamics (they apparently painted them black because it helped to radiate heat back out, allowing them to fly about 70 degrees cooler).
If you want an analogy for your derision, consider asking your average olympic athlete to run "a measly 10MPH" faster..... Prepare to get laughed out of the room (or kicked in the teeth, if he's been doing too many steroids).
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Re:Mach 1 != 1000mphAs I remember it, the SR71 blackbird (picture) was able to get to speeds beyond mach 2....
One SR71 page claims that:
The Blackbird, code-named Oxcart during its development, flies on a tremendous 65,000 lbs. of thrust at an altitude of 100,000+ feet at Mach 3.5, and has a range of four thousand miles.That is not only four times faster than the U-2 but seven miles higher - and the U-2 was then the current high-altitude champion. For a long time the Air Force claimed a maximum speed of Mach 3.2 and an operational ceiling of 85,000 feet, but we now know that the SR-71 can soar above 100,000 feet. Some military pilots claim altitudes in excess of 125,000 feet but this is probably stretching it a bit. [....]
Another site also has references to "mach 3+". Apparently the 'official' claims of mach 3.1 were for security reasons. That speed record was smashed (as I remember it) during one of the SR-71 decomissioning flights (they were decomissioned in the '80s, then recomissioned in the '90s.)Hmm... and a page on the Mig-25 vs the SR-71 notes that (for the Russian MIG-25):
Above Mach 2.8 the engines would overheat and burn up. The Americans had clocked a Mig-25 over Israel at Mach 3.2 in 1973. Upon landing in Egypt, the engines were totally destroyed. We did not understand that the engine destruction was inevitable.
So a Mig-25 was able to get close to an SR-71's cruising speed -- if you were willing to destroy the engine... (this was especially dangerous, since the Mig-25 apparently had no ejection seat).This 'couple of hundred extra MPH' is almost a full MACH (if you compare the cruising speeds of the MIG-25 and the SR-71). Remember, as well, that e=v^2 -- so the 1.25 speed difference is about 1.56 times the heat produced.Over a 1 or 2 hour flight (the endurance record is somethint like 10 hours), that can be a lot of heat to dissapate -- and anything like a radiator is going to mess with your aerodynamics (they apparently painted them black because it helped to radiate heat back out, allowing them to fly about 70 degrees cooler).
If you want an analogy for your derision, consider asking your average olympic athlete to run "a measly 10MPH" faster..... Prepare to get laughed out of the room (or kicked in the teeth, if he's been doing too many steroids).
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Re:Mach 1 != 1000mphAs I remember it, the SR71 blackbird (picture) was able to get to speeds beyond mach 2....
One SR71 page claims that:
The Blackbird, code-named Oxcart during its development, flies on a tremendous 65,000 lbs. of thrust at an altitude of 100,000+ feet at Mach 3.5, and has a range of four thousand miles.That is not only four times faster than the U-2 but seven miles higher - and the U-2 was then the current high-altitude champion. For a long time the Air Force claimed a maximum speed of Mach 3.2 and an operational ceiling of 85,000 feet, but we now know that the SR-71 can soar above 100,000 feet. Some military pilots claim altitudes in excess of 125,000 feet but this is probably stretching it a bit. [....]
Another site also has references to "mach 3+". Apparently the 'official' claims of mach 3.1 were for security reasons. That speed record was smashed (as I remember it) during one of the SR-71 decomissioning flights (they were decomissioned in the '80s, then recomissioned in the '90s.)Hmm... and a page on the Mig-25 vs the SR-71 notes that (for the Russian MIG-25):
Above Mach 2.8 the engines would overheat and burn up. The Americans had clocked a Mig-25 over Israel at Mach 3.2 in 1973. Upon landing in Egypt, the engines were totally destroyed. We did not understand that the engine destruction was inevitable.
So a Mig-25 was able to get close to an SR-71's cruising speed -- if you were willing to destroy the engine... (this was especially dangerous, since the Mig-25 apparently had no ejection seat).This 'couple of hundred extra MPH' is almost a full MACH (if you compare the cruising speeds of the MIG-25 and the SR-71). Remember, as well, that e=v^2 -- so the 1.25 speed difference is about 1.56 times the heat produced.Over a 1 or 2 hour flight (the endurance record is somethint like 10 hours), that can be a lot of heat to dissapate -- and anything like a radiator is going to mess with your aerodynamics (they apparently painted them black because it helped to radiate heat back out, allowing them to fly about 70 degrees cooler).
If you want an analogy for your derision, consider asking your average olympic athlete to run "a measly 10MPH" faster..... Prepare to get laughed out of the room (or kicked in the teeth, if he's been doing too many steroids).
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Re:Mach 2.1 the record? - NOT
Actually, the SR71 uses a hybrid turbojet/ramjet engine. At low speeds the engine acts like a standard turbojet; as speeds rise the engine begins to act more like a ramjet. Here is some good info and pictures.
Here are a couple good pictures of ramjet and scramjet engines. A scramjet is just a form of ramjet that only works above mach 1.