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XCor Receives Sub-Orbital Launch Permit
Marc Newman writes "MSNBC is reporting that XCor has received the second FAA suborbital launch permit. Xcor Aerospace is not competing in the X-Prize but rather is 'in it to make money'. They are still awaiting a launch permit for their Mojave desert launch site. It'd be interesting if XCor beat Scaled Composites with the first sub-orbital flight but couldn't claim the $10 million prize."
Everyone knows only the first one is important. I mean, we all know who walked on the moon first... Louis Armstrong... but who cares about that second guy Buzz Lightyear?
It'd be interesting if XCor beat Scaled Composites with the first sub-orbital flight but couldn't claim the $10 million prize."
;-)
Yeah...I'll bet that if that happened, Burt Rutan would eXCORiate everyone who worked for him
We, the public, will benefit greatly in the long run with the increased competition. The more companies doing this, the better.
And when the time comes, I'll be ready to take a flight.
Boycott everything - they're all trying to fuck you one way or another
What are the requirements for winning the X-prize, again?
I remember you have to send a manned shuttle up twice within two weeks, but is it limited to those teams that are registered?
I know, I should RTFA...
Twenties Retirement
"They are still awaiting a launch permit for their Mojave desert launch site"
Soon the 'kingdom of nye' will have new sightings to report...
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
Why exactly are they not in the x-prize competition? Looks like they may be some real competition.
Xcor Aerospace is not competing in the X-Prize but rather is 'in it to make money'.
Oh I see, they want to make money, not win the prize... which is... money...
Uh..
Xcor is not competing for the $10 million prize...
"To make money has always been our goal," he said.
If they're in it for the money, wouldn't it make sense to compete for the X-Prize, while they're at it?
It seems the publicity of winning would help their business, not to mention 10 million bucks in the pocket ain't bad.
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I guess I am risking my karma that this might be modded of topic, but doesn't the requirement for a permit to engage in a sub-orbital flight set a bad precedent as far as the politicalization of space goes. I mean, who owns earth orbit? How far up does the United States go before you enter "International Space"? We have a flag on the moon, does that mean a private company couldn't fund and develop a moon base? Are we going to have to have another "Age of Conquest" to divy up the moon, or is globalization a necessity for space colinization? I just find the whole thing so facinating.
Yeah, I guess I'm funny like that.
"It'd be interesting if XCor beat Scaled Composites with the first sub-orbital flight but couldn't claim the $10 million prize."
Ironic, perhaps? But they publicly claim they aren't competing in this...
Maybe I missed something.
Burt Rutan's company Scaled Composites has the first license for their SpaceShipOne.
http://www.dickrutan.com/rocket.htmlIIRC, dosn't Xprize require two people to go up? or am I off my rocker?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Not very suprising that it doesn't matter to Xcor whether they win the prize or not. I don't think $10M will cover the development costs of most of the entries, so I think most of them are "in it for the money." They must be hoping for some sort of commercial success/government contract using their techniques. Think of it as a long term investment.
/.) and greasing the wheels of the FAA to give permits. The permits are interesting-They are a milestone showing which of the entries are serious and which are vaporware.
The X-Prize itself serves more of a publicity role, keeping the developing entries in the media (including
Exciting stuff nonetheless.
Unless I miss my guess there is a heck of a lot more than $10 million for whoever wins this race. If the Bush space plan works, and it may, we could well see the commercialization of space in our lifetimes. And whoever has the best and cheapest commercial transport system at that point stands to make billions and billions.
The Xprize has conditions (like no government funding etc etc) that Xcor probably does not want to follow.
Also, to win the Xprize, one has to do it with a reusable LV, with 3 passengers and a 2 week (?) turnaround between flights etc etc.
So it's not so surprising. Of course all the Xprize people are in for the money. One can ask why subscribe to so many constraints, well the Xprize Consortium is backed by a lot of influential people. By subscribting to it, you can free publicity, and A LOT OF connections to people who probably will be your future customers (or your future customers' friends.)
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Nice bluff, XCor. In related news, I'm going to write some exotic foreign country tomorrow and ask for a tourist visa so I can show it off to chicks at the bar. Show them what a world traveler I am. No, my eyes aren't red from a 21" CRT. It's that I just got in from my last exotic trip. Sounds like kind of the same thing as requesting an FAA launch permit, no?
Dick's brother Burt is going to beat him into space on this one. In SpaceShipOne no less! I'm sure that is going to burn a bit. Maybe Burt will offer Dick a ride. Honestly, compare a bunch of artist renderings and what looks like a prototype mock up vehicle vs. something that recently broke the sound barrier propelled by a firing rocket engine to over 100,000 feet.
And I'm sorry, "EZ-Rocket" sounds like it needs a launch pad shaped like a Ritz cracker- and to get the crew out you tilt the nose and they eject out the tip of the cone...
"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."
This certifies that (name here) is hearby entitled to launch one (1) spacecraft into suborbital flight. Bearer assumes all responsibility for accidents. This permit is provided AS IS without warranty, including the implied warranties of airworthiness or suborbital flight capability. The liability of the FAA is limited to the cost of the permit fees. Some states do not allow limitations of liability, so the above may not apply to you. Void where prohibited. If you do not agree to the terms of this permit, please pack your spacecraft in the original carton and return it to the store where it was purchased for a refund. You should have received a copy of the FAA's Suborobital Flight Guidelines along with this permit. If not, please write to: Federal Aviation Administration, Department of Suborbital Flight, Box 5050, Washington, DC 31416
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It'd be interesting if XCor beat Scaled Composites with the first sub-orbital flight but couldn't claim the $10 million prize.
Beating Scaled Composites into sub-orbit is not enough to claim the X-prize. To claim the $10 million, you have to fly the same craft TWICE into sub-orbit within (I believe) 2 weeks.
The site shows something else interesting ... that while Xcor isn't participating in the X Prize, they do plan on participating in the X Prize Cup (which will happen later).
Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.
I'm surprised nobody knew that Burt Rutan designed the Long-EZ, which the EZ rocket is based off of. Rutan helped kick off the homebuilt aircraft revolution with that plane, and its derivatives have always been nothing but tributes to his excellence as an engineer. I don't think he much cares about this competition.
God wouldn't it be nice if Xcors' plane could be used as a NASA shuttle replacement to and from the space station at least? Has about the right design to it for that purpose based on what we've seen with NASA's ideas for a small shullte replacement. Am I right here? Would save quite a bit of development costs if this is chosen for that purpose. I do believe the ISS is in a low orbit too so this should work out well. This + next gen huge cargo space freighter might be a nice little combo for future space missions/space development. Now attach that small shuttle on a frieghter and drive that thing to the moon. :)
1. Enter Xprise with the goal of not winning prize.
2. Attain goal of not winning the prize.
3. ???
4. Profit!!!
Well, so far, I think they have succeeded in not winning the prize. If they are really careful, they can perhaps pull a rabbit out of their hat and manage to not win the prize at the last minute, if they really have what it takes. I, for one, will be watching Xcor very closely to see if they do in fact manage to meet their goal of not winning a prize.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
I just want to clear up some confusion generated by inaccuracies both in the MSNBC story and the slashdot post:
The vehicle we have received a licence for, as stated in our press release is not a full suborbital vehicle and is not an X-Prize competitor. It is an intermediate technology research platform to continue development of engines and related systems that began flight testing on the EZ-Rocket, our currently flying manned rocket powered airplane. It is also noted that this new vehicle, the Sphinx, has not yet been built. Quoth the press release: "It is helpful that RLV companies can obtain their launch licenses during vehicle design, prior to committing capital to build a vehicle."
A stated before, we are not an X-Prize competitor, due to among other things, a conflict in the time scale of the X-Prize and our business development plan, as well as the planned configuration of our current suborbital vehicle design. XCOR is focused on revenue generation. However, we fully support the X-Prize and offer technology and services to X-Prize entrants, as well as moral and legislative support.
Mike Massee XCOR Aerospace www.xcor.com
there is no regulation of orbit.
There is, however, regulation of the air between the ground and orbit.
Which is what the FAA regulates. Launching potentially dangerous vehicles through said air falls under their purvue of regulation.
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much like today, there were regulations in water extending out a set distance from shores. Just how far out depended on who you asked.
But there were still international waters (like today) that nobody owns and have little in the way of law. Space is like that, and the air between orbit and ground is like the border waters.
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I actually went to CA to see the unveiling of their Rocket-Ez a couple of years ago, and we heard Jeff Greason speak on the visions for the company - the mission, to make a nontoxic, reusable (in the real sense) rocket motor. They are already selling small rocket engines for manoevering thrusters on spacecraft.
I wrote about it at the time on my website and took plenty of photos. It was quite impressive the number of firsts that Xcor were achieving.
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As mentioned in previous posts, I'm an intern at NASA but I absolutely love to see commerical ventures working at launching into orbit.
:)
Commericialization of space is important in the sense that space will eventually no longer be monopolized by scientists and engineers, but be within the grasp of ordinary people of all kinds of backgrounds. I believe quite strongly that the only way to democratize space, and keep it accessible to the average person is to provide an economic incentive for businesses to exploit their various resources.
I look forward to the day where a father and son might build a spaceship together and, at very least, head towards the stratosphere. Perhaps saftety systems will be developed to make this a reality.
I wish XCor the best of luck. Perhaps they will develope things we have not yet imagined
This sets a bad precedent by pretending that the FAA has authority to grant such licenses.
"But everybody knows you have to bend over for authority figures!"
Enough kow-towing to the bureaucrats. They've had space for more than 40 years and wasted it. Let's get off this rock!
Bob-
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The EZ-Rocket is not the Xerus. (I believe that is what XCor is calling their planned suborbital craft.)
Their suborbital craft has not even begun construction, I believe. They're still in the engine development and testing phase. The EZ-Rocket is by no means a suborbital craft and never will be. It's merely a good testbed for some of their engines. (It happens to use two of their 400-lb thrust engines.)
So far, if you look at their site, they have only racked up 0.2 minutes of running time on their 1800lb engine design, which is likely what their suborbital craft will use.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I don't think Dick cares, at all.
Dick has set enough world records in his brother's aircraft already.
I would not be surprised if there is future cooperation between XCor and Scaled (maybe even an existing project that is under wraps.)
XCor is primarily a rocket engine development company, which is working on solving many of the safety and reliability problems with liquid-fueled rockets that caused Burt to choose a hybrid rocket for SS1.
Scaled is primarily an airframe company - It's not often that they become involved in propulsion development. (Which is why SS1's rocket is a relatively simple one, albeit one that is elegant in its simplicity.)
Guess who developed the airframe for XCor's current testbed? Burt.
Care to take any guesses who is going to be responsible for final design and construction of the Xerus airframe? My money is on Burt Rutan.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Doesn't Armadillo Aerospace also use XCor engines (at least some components from XCor?)
The Private space industry is probabally going to specialize in some aspects like this anyway, and why not let that happen. There is currently a friendly rivalry between the different space companies, but I don't see it (yet) as a vicious cut-throat business. There are just too many issues right now, and they want to keep a united front to deal with bureaucratic issues being thrown up by the government.
The real question is more like when is Wall Street going to go into the private space launch business? This will be able to soak up private capital like almost no other industry that I can think of. It will also create billionaires that will be able to laugh at the pitiful sums of money Mr. Wm. Gates III has to play with.... and a bunch of broken dreams from the next big stock market crash from the dot Bomb in the sky collapse.