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Retraction of "China Banning W2K"
??? writes "It would appear that the Mercury is retracting its earlier story posted here. In a recently posted story, both the Chinese government and Microsoft deny the veracity of the story. The interviewed Chinese government spokesperson did however indicate that they are encouraging the use of domestically produced software. " Some of the Reuters stories seem to indicate that China has banned Win2k in critical government/infrastructure situations - but I can't find confirmation.
Next, you'll start posting stories from the Enquirer.
If the Chinese Government (or some agency or affiliated academy) is producing their very own Linux distribution, it will be VERY interesting to see how they follow the GPL.
I think the real question is: When is the execution of the newspaper editors? Or are they just going to disappear one day, never to be heard from again?
Maybe it will make the us government consider it? You never know about these things.
CHINA IS NOT A FUCKING COMMUNIST COUNTRY, YOU STUPID FUCK!
godDAMMit, how can you fucking people expect to make the correct decisions dealing with the PRC when you're basing them on your idea of their ideology, and you've got it completely fucking wrong?
here's a really simple fucking formula: if ~50% of the GDP comes from the private sector, it's not a communist country, even if they pay lip service to "communism" (which they don't--it's "socialism with chinese characteristics", which is basically "not socialism").
motherfuckers...
Sweet Jesus, moderate this drivel DOWN!
There's a fleet of aging equiptment in most companies: the software standard makes using our older 486 and Pentium PC's not practical.
Also I was in China (Canton) last year; they DO have faster PC's (one shop was running a local lan game of quake) but most of what I was P133 and P166's.
So, are you part of the "let's not let them give Communism a bad name, because it's really a good thing, it just hasn't been given a fair chance anywhere" clique, or are you just being pedantic.
Armchair socialists/communists expounding their "philosopy" from the comfort of western democracies are ludicrous.
Go sell your newspaper in China. Or Cuba.
If I don't understand physics, I will keep silent and listen to those who know physics. However, if I do not know anything about China, I am still bold enough to post some comments. Isn't it ridiculous? I would not mention the slavery system in the US whenever I comment issues about Linux, would you? If you do really want to comment on China, you at least need to read some serious books on China if you do not have plan to visit China. CNN's news reports do not help you much to understand China. Suggestion: if you do not have time or interest to read Fairbank, you may read some articles by Oksenberg(Stanford Univ). Fong Young
No, Communism is not a "good" thing, it's a stupid , irrelevant thing. Please pull your head out, take a deep breath, and explain how "Communism" adds any explanatory power to what China does or how it behaves. There are plenty of authoritarian regimes that don't have the connotation of Communist that are just as bad (or worse) than China.
If China dropped the "Peoples Republic" from it's name and started calling the Party the "China New Nationalist" party, it wouldn't change a thing.
BTW, what do you call a country where 50% of it's GDP come from the private sector? There are more real communists in the greater Boston and San Francisco areas than in China, where they actually had to live under that crap!
Since when has a little thing like the truth stopped Slashdot from posting a negative story about Microsoft?
I think the problem is that most /. readers will belive anything as long as it's a slam on Microsoft.
Proof against trojans? You really don't have a clue, do you. The vast majority of times when a computer is hacked it's done by someone ON THE INSIDE. How difficult do you think it would be for them to add a trojan to whatever distro of Linux their company or government is using? Do you actually belive the crap that because the source is there it's proof against trojans? Guess what, 99.99% of Linux users don't/won't/can't do a line by line audit of all the source on their systems.
Slashdot need to be more carefull in posting anti-M$ topics.
I also associate China with bicycles, Buddhism, fireworks, noodles, rice, government jobs by competitive examination, tea and junks.
It so happens that I have a fine appreciation for all of these things. I never once eat a bowl of rice, drink my tea, and go out for a bike ride and consider the philosohical ramifications of these things being endorsed by China.
China is now seeking to make all of its citizens car owners. Should we all get all funny about our own car ownership?
Honestly, even ESR, who's general ability to think I consider topnotch, has gone all funny over this issue.
Get a grip people.
Is there an English version of this book? Are there any web sites you can point me to that discuss it in English?
BINGO! Moderate this to 5!
rumors = fact!
Hmm. The French government has already dones this (according to the Register) - banning non opensource software in government. Bang goes Ms Office, Lotus Smartsuite, Slowlaris (sic), SCO.... But then they are French (and therefore deeply suspicious), and I am English. I therefore couldn't give a flying fuck - cummon, this is 1000 years of ritual hatred coming out here!
u ever seen the rights of saudi chicks? Can they own a buisness? oh shit they can't even walk around without a damn cloth in there face! how about the "slaves" they import to do there labor? ~moron~
cheers.
This fag can spew some seriously effective propaganda. Be proud of it, because that's the only thing you're good at! If we steal all your secrets and you know everything better, why don't you manufacture computers of your own, instead of parasiting from our genious Abit and other hardware? Because we invent everything and you steal it. Being the case that you never heard of thankfulness, you reverse the situation, profit from us and say we steal ideas from you. All your comptuters are made in my utterly cool country China, your shoes are made here too (Taiwan) and every other thing that you are too stupid for to invent yourselves are invented by our brilliant Chinese citizens. No wonder China invented the Pascal triangle two-thousand years earlier than you(litterally). The only thing that you can do is sit on your ass and make fun of others. Useless is a too nice description of you. And the dipshit who moderated this as being "funny" is just as worthless. Otherwise you would have a REAL job, instead of reading comments. Even monkeys can do that. Fuckers. LONG LIVE SUPERCHINA!
South Morning China Post is more like a HongKong based, anti-china, pro-UK style Newspaper. So you surely read a lot of 'truth' and 'rumor' about China in this piece of paper.
Go search their archive...
Again, Since it survived in HongKong, it proved that Hong Kong is 'free' for now.
There are no such 'real news' about China. Only either rumor from CNN (ABC, CBS..., you name it. Oh, don't forget BBS) or propoganda from Chinese news agents.
win2k sux linux sux FREEBSD 4 EVER!!!!!!!!
F*** Reuters!
...some of the "commie"-centered posts on this thread are laughable. Maybe the reasons why the Chinese government is interest in Linux include: 1. China is poor 2. Linux is free (even if China isn't) 3. They want to develop indigenous software development so they can stop sending billions to Redmond 4. They are under pressure to curtail software piracy...GPL software makes this moot. 5. They are tired of finding BackOrifice, Netbus and 48,000 viruses on their systems 6. The mostly have old hardware (486s and P54C/Pentiums) and Linux is friendly to old iron; can you imagine the hardware cost to them of buying machines capable of running Win2K!? (you same jerks praised Mexico for using Linux in their education system; China's motivations are not much different) and, finally: The are getting ready for the CHICOM IPO (NSDQ: CHCM) and are hoping to boost the share values and by linking the offering to Linux. p.s., get over the "commie" label--they have evolved into a run-of-the-mill authoritarian regime, no worse than some of the US' friends like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Mexico, Malaysia, Singapore. The fact that they are Chinese has a lot more explanatory power for their actions than any lingering Marx/Lenin/Stalin/Mao Zedong/Robert Reich stench.
It is easier to kick an opium addiction for most people than it is for a large organization to switch to another OS. Addictive == TRUE. The threat of force is _always_ implicitly present to back up copyright and other laws. Gunboats == TRUE. Cheers, gbs
Here is a thought. M$ selling W2K to the PRC has a historic parallel to the British Empire selling opium to China during colonialism.
You mean that after the past 3 "China adopting Linux" stories turned out to be hoaxes, this one turns out to be a hoax too?
Maybe the next time you post the story it will be true.
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
i'd say the PRC is a fair bit worse than the countries you mentioned, but they're damned sure not the worst on the block. just the next duly elected enemy.
also, you left out 7. a sovereign government might not want all of their critical computers running on software from another country, and one that has proven itself profoundly unfriendly, to boot.
a radical idea, i know, but i think if microsoft were a PRC company, we might concievably (hear me out on this...) not want to run all of our computers on their software. just a guess. maybe pat buchanan would disagree.
-k. ^-^ ^D
Okay... China's a Communist country. (One of the last in the world, but hey.) OF COURSE they're going to promote "home grown" software over Microsoft!
Theoretically (or is it ideologically in this sense?), Communists don't believe in the acquisition of personal wealth. So why would they want to pay licensing fees? Or for that matter for any software at all? In the ideal utopian society, each member produces to his or her ability and takes only what he or she needs. Linux is therefore the OS of the people!
Needless to say, it won't be easy. It's not like even simplified Chinese is easy to code for/with (just guessing here), at least with the relative preponderence of English/Spanish/French/German compilers. (For example, I've never seen a Polish version of C++, even in Poland. If anyone knows otherwise, lemme know). They'd have to come up with an entire microcomputer industry more or less from scratch...
46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
is that bogus stories about it, like the one about Linux becoming the "official" OS of China, are posted here.
What's next? Linux Rumored To Be Most Popular OS on Mars! or maybe Previously Unknown Abyssal Fish Species Rumored Never To Use Windows!
Give us a break... Real news from China might be interesting, however.
kai
Newspapers crying "wolf" aside, I expect it's only a matter of time before this happens for real. Not just in China, but in most of the world's nations.
I'd like to say my prediction is based on the the many intrinsic benefits of logicels libre, but in fact I think it boils down to a single issue: proof against trojan horses.
Plenty of nations have reason to be wary of snooping by the USA, and there have been enough corporations caught uploading unauthorized data lately that it doesn't take an excess of paranoia to want to play things on the safe side.
Hell, I'm wary of closed source software just because I don't want unauthorized snooping on my home system, where I don't have anything remotely worth stealing. How much more wary would I be if it was a matter of national security in the face of software possibly harboring hooks from a somewhat unfriendly rival government?
--
It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
No. Red Flag is a real Chinese linux distribution. Check out their home page . IMHO, they drawn some cute Tux too :). And yes, you need to set up your computer for Chinese to read it correctly ;).
And if you're interested in Chinese Linux, you should also check out some other distributions such as Bluepoint .
they will definitely regret this in the short and
long term !!?!?!?
This is from the above paper via Reuters in Beijing and can be accessed at
South China Morning Post
China will ban use of Microsoft's new Windows 2000 operating system throughout the government and instead opt for a homegorwn software system.
Ministries will have to use "Red Flag Linux", a new platform developed by Chinese researchers and based on upstart operating system Linux, the Yangcheng Evening News said.
There's more info in the article but you can read it for yourself if interested.
Would the Chinese newspapers themselves be wrong?
cheers.
Register article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/000107-000006.html
"As Microsoft sniffily denies suggestions that the Chinese
government is poised to ban Windows 2000, TurboLinux has
opportunistically leapt into the fray by claiming it's been
outselling Windows in China for the past four months."
etc...
I mean, really, wasn't "Red Flag" enough of a red flag to tell that the story was bogus?
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
The thing is not about China, but about the chinese government. Chinese endorsment can certainly be a good thing, but government backing from china isn't always that good....
// Simon
Well, I wouldn't expect the Chineese to ban W2000 than I'd expect USA to ban all forms of Linux. Still, if the adoption of Linux would be true - despite the rumours about W200 - it would certainly be rather interesting politically.
The government in China is certainly not a nice government, and to have Linux associated with it would be somewhat unpleasant. There is a more than a little socialist (NOT in the chinese sense, mind you) touch to Linux, mostly because it strives due to the "communal ownership of code". But at the same time, free software is highly libertarian too, which does not go well with communism.
Had linux been a political system, this mixture of libertarian and socialist ideas would be rather interesting. But I think one should see Linux as essentially non-political (in the general sense) because it deals with technology and not society. The ideas embraced by Linux has been around for a long time in the political system, and Linux has merely transferred it to the technological arena - and proven to be a big success.
Still - the growth of Linux would be tremendous if it was introduced on a government scale in china...
// Simon Kågström
I don't think the newspapers in this country (the US) get quotes from our officials right. Why should I think newspapers in other countries do any better? And when it's a US paper quoting a forign paper quoting their officials...
"A coding flaw allowed Microsoft to collect information about unique computer-identifying information."
Apparently. Oh that's what it was, was it? 'A coding flaw' that just happened to send information back to a database, after assigning everyone a unique ID?
It seems strange that the media keep confusing the issues - the NSA backdoor turned out probably not to be an NSA backdoor, but the security problems in MS products hardly stem solely from malicious attempts to allow people into the computers - the article seems to miss the fact that MS products just tend to be less secure, as is their security model...
Insightful my ass. I have a bone to pick with the moderator (and ChrisGB for that matter)! For one... China is Socialist NOT Communist (there has never been a Communist state (and probably never will be)).
Support The GNU Project!! http://www.gnu.org
Now, the big question is, which conspircy? Take your pick:
-Mircrosoft payed off China
-Microsoft threatend China
-Microsoft traded nucular secrets to China
-China was actually trying to hide the fact that Microsoft had boycotted them, but managed to cut a deal (once again either money, violence or nuclar secrets)
-The Red Hat prototype mind control laser had the Chinese govt. in its thrall until Microsoft Stormtroopers managed to destroy it
Shawn Poulsen (Fruan)
"On Slashdot, many obvious things are insightful." - Annonymous Coward, 2000/7/9
The names "communism" and "socialism" have been used in so many different ways that its hard to talk about them, any more. I think some understanding of the Russian Revolution will help people better understand these terms, how they have been used and why - although I'm going to be brief!
Many of the people who carried out the Russian Revolution in 1917 (I think it was then) were not communists. They were workers and peasants who organized, shut their bosses out of their factories and workplaces and ran their workplaces themselves. Many were anarchists, who wanted to run the whole economy not by central planning but through federations of these worker councils. (Sorry, the word "anarchist" is probably unusable today as well.)
The word "soviet" means worker council, or union, and the Russians organized into these councils and were able to have control over their lives, for the first time. The sad new is: this revolution was eventually taken over by the Communist party (Bolsheviks). The leaders said "You do not need these soviets because our party represents the workers"! The Communist party killed its opponents, broke the unions, and assumed all power.
Here's where some of the confusion begins: The Soviet Union called themselves "socialists" and "communists" to propagandize to its own citizens that the government was serving their interests. The capitalists, afraid of unions and workers' power in general called the Soviet Union "socialists" and "communists". They did this to make people associate alternatives to capitalism with the totalitarianism of the Soviet Union, and later, China. Also there have been a whole bunch of interpretations of "socialism" - from radical left-wing to Clinton-Democrat but that's too big a story to get into here.
As far as being "armchair philosophers", socialists and communists in the U.S. have worked for peace, civil rights, civil liberties, workers' rights, and just about any non-conservative social movement you can think of. Abroad, socialists and communists have helped replaced feudalism with democracy (look at Europe). Is that enough far you? As Karl Marx said (although not an exact quote), "Philosophers so far have tried to understand history... the point is to change it!"
What probably happened was that someone heard that they were trying to encourage the use of 'home cooked' software, and someone in the news agencies misinterpretted this as a ban. Maybe it was language related - perhaps something got lost in the translation? Maybe the Chinese government 'suggested' that Linux should be used, and the communist definition of a suggestion is 'you will do this'!
A company named GraphOn is working with a Chinese company to bring Linux to the China's education system. Check out their website www.graphon.com and their stock ticker is GOJO.
http://www.google.com/search?q=red+flag+linux+home page&num=10
Who do you think is reference number one?
StarTrek.org Free Webmail
Precidents been set, hasn't it?
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
Like the Chinese follow REGULAR software license agreements ??? 90% of the stuff they use in the government ministries is pirated.
China breaks EULAs because it's too poor to afford purchasing licenses.
What makes you think they care about the Linux GPL ??
IANAL, but all it needs to do to comply with GNU GPL is include the source code on the CDs it burns for Chinese GNU/Linux users. Now how tough is that?
Oh, by the way, here's your GPL in Chinese. It's an unofficial translation, but I think the government will understand it. :-)
Will I retire or break 10K?
Well, seems to me like another big democracy issue. I have not read the story yet, but it seems logical to me not to buy proprietary software. Why would anyone buy for things they can get very well done on a free environment? In fact, on more than one. (Linux/3 BSD's/...) So, at that point, the Government of China is correct, but it is lacking on freedom of the people. They can choose what is good or not for them. No one is ever going to do a complete change from Win9x to *NIX systems. I believe nobody has the perfect conditions to do so. I guess using Linux as in the Brazillian project, as a priority, would be much better than in this "project" (which I guess its an order).
Yes, but this story came from a Chinese newspaper, the Yangcheng Evening News.
When a newspaper in a given country quotes officials in that country, it must be give at least a bit of credence.
That's right dammit... STICK TO YOUR FUCKING GUNS. Don't let those nazi bastards from redmond tell a great proud country like Chinia what to do...no siree bob on a fucking stick. YOU GET A FUCKING BACKBONE AND GIVE EM FUCKING HELL CHINA.
Hey...if you need some help organizing things you just let good ol Frank know... I'll hop a fucking plane and come over there and kick some good ol ass for ya. There's nothing Frank Rizzo loves more than a good old fashioned rumble.
A genius writes code an idiot can understand, while an idiot writes code the compiler can't understand.
Somehow I have the feeling that if the Chinese government really were to be banning Win Y2K that the news would come out of some other source than a small-town newspaper of little importance.