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Apple to release PalmOS device?
Kris_J writes "The Register says that "Apple-branded PalmOS-based device have already started coming off Taiwanese production lines". The Newton is dead, long live the PalmOS." It will be interesting to see that if this pans out, how much Newton technology will end up in this PDA. Towards the end, the handwriting recognition on the MessagePad was quite good, even if the unit itself was quite bulky. Who knows, maybe iPalm? :)
Not to be glib, but why would anyone bother doing all this work? Two of the major arguments for an open source OS are being able to fix bugs easily (and the resulting reliablility) and better device support. But PalmOS is already rock-solid reliable, and has virtually zero bugs. And there are no real devices to support, because it's a standard hardware platform. So there is very little to gain from doing this. Linux became popular because it was an alternative to an OS that people weren't happy with. Since most people ARE happy with the PalmOS, where will any replacement get an opening?
As far as Open Source ON PalmOS, 3Com releases the header files, and you can cross-compile your programs with gcc. So you can develop for it completely free.
To answer your question about cancelling your Vx order and going for the TRG Pro... it depends. I am selling my IIIx and have a TRG Pro on order.
The Vx gives you the best form factor at half the thickness of the TRG Pro, if that matters to you (and it does not to me, I strap it to my hip in a nice Rhino Skin belt pack, so the thickness difference becomes nearly irrelevant).
The TRG Pro give you mind boggling expandability via compact flash cards.
Get the Palm Vx if: You are carrying it in a suit pocket (this is the only form factor that will not bulge or bag). You intend to never expand it or experiment with it. You don't currently or will not on the near future plan to own a digital camera or MP3 player that uses compact flash cards. You want to go out to your local TechieMart and pick it up this afternoon and you have money to burn.
Get the TRGPro if: You want future expansion capibility, especially if you have a digital camera or MP3 player that already uses compact flash (so you will have some laying around that can do double duty). You tend to experiment with software and hardware and like to be on the cutting edge. You want to carry a LOT of data around with you all the time.
As I said before, I ordered the TRGPro the day they announced it was shipping. It is compatible with the assorted cases, cables, clip on modems, and other odds and ends I have accumulated with the previous 4 generations of pilots I have owned (Pilot 512, Palm Professional, Palm III upgrade for Professional, Palm IIIx). These doodads would easily cost me over $100 to replace if I went for either the Visor Deluxe or the Vx, so the TRG Pro was the obvious choice.
I am also pretty sure I will upgrade my Apple Quicktake 200 to a better digital camera that uses compact flash sometime in the next year, and will likely pick up an MP3 player in the next two years that uses the same cards as well. This will allow me to have a collection of compact flash cards that I can move between devices as I see fit.
The only real advantage of the Vx is size, but for some people, that is the overriding concern. If you must have the small size (some people do, nothing wrong with that), get it. Even without the expansion, it will be a darn usefull little tool for your daily life.
If size is not your main concern, get the TRG Pro or the Handspring Visor. Both are nicely expandable, very hackable (in the old noble sense of the word), well priced, and extremely usefull.
I suspect the Apple will be a re-badged something or other since they are working directly with Palm... probably a IIIx style with 8 megs, clear case, and USB. It will be interesting to see if it includes any expansion capability (i.e. compact flash or springboard).
Bill Kilgallon
Mathematically impossible requirements are technically not against policy.
My only major complaint with the Newton was its size. If the Apple-Palm device comes to pass, this is what I'd like to see.... A screen the size of the Newton's...
Part of the problem here is you cannot carry five pounds in a three-pound bag. The big screen of the Newton was nice to work on, but it made the unit considerably larger, which meant it was hard to carry around.
Ever notice how the size of the Palm Pilot just about matches the size of a pocket notebook (the kind that flip open at the top)? There's a reason for that. It's a very convenient size for us humans, both to hold in our hands and to put in our pockets.
One thing that might be cool is a folding screen. Imagine a unit the thickness of the Palm V, but with twice the screen area. When you are done using it, fold it in half. You still couldn't hold it in the palm of your hand, but at least you could carry it around. Unfortunately, such folding screen technology is ten or twenty years off, from what I've heard.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Given that the Newton sported a StrongARM for handwriting recognition, which was (from what I hear) roughly on par with a P5, and the Palm uses a DragonBall, a derivative of the chip used in a Mac Classic, I doubt they'd be able to squeeze enough CPU speed out of a Palm to do the Newton's handwriting recognition. One of the main reasons the MessagePad 2000's handwriting recognition was so good in the end was the massively increased CPU power StrongArm gave it.
There are some proven technologies that Apple owns which could make their way to the iPalm. (Actually, when this product entered the rumormill months ago, it went by the name "iMate", if I remember correctly.)
1) The extremely good, on screen, handwriting recognition. The Newton allows you to write nearly anywhere on screen. By the time the 2100 came out, this recognition was really good. It even understood my hand-writing, which is no small task.
2) A better UI metaphor. The Newton defined its own interface guidelines, instead of trying to be like a desktop machine. Its core UI concepts are tons better than any other handheld I've seen. I'd be surprised if these are actually used on the iMate, but if they are, I would guess that Palm will (eventually) start using them on their own devices as well.
3) Better UI widgets. Even if they don't change the whole metaphor, the iMate could learn a lot from the Newton about tiny wigdets, tricks and interface tools which make using a Newton way easier than other palmtops.
4) StrongARM support. Again, this probably won't happen, but the Newton 2x00 series used the StrongARM processor, running at something like 160MHz. For a handheld of several years ago, that is quite a bit of processing power, especially since the batteries lasted for several weeks of average use (I think they were rated at 24hrs continuous use).
5) Speech. Apple ported MacInTalk to the Newton, so the Newton can read notes back to you. Apple has also been doing quite a bit with speech recognition lately, but that probably takes more juice than the iMate would have.
6) QuickTime. Eventually (probably not in the near future), palmtops will be powerful enough to playback video. Actually, the Newton could sort of do this, but not using a standard video format. (Anyone who saw the "Eat Millhouse" Simpsons clip on a Newton knows what I mean.) It would be in Apple's best interest to get QuickTime onto palmtops as soon as possible. Since the core of QuickTime is basically a compression engine, there may be some peices of it being used in the iMate.
7) TCP/IP. The Newton (eventually) got a fairly decent, small TCP/IP stack. I'm not sure how good Palm's is, but it is possible that Apple's is better.
8) Color. This is a bit of a stretch, but Apple has had years of experience in shifting black & white OS/hardware/APIs to color. As a Mac programmer during the transition from the Plus to the Mac II, I can tell you this was not very pleasant. Apple eventually got the hang of it, and I'm sure could give Palm some (much needed) advise about the best way to transition to full color.
One thing to keep in mind about all this is that Steve Jobs absolutely hated the Newton. This might have been because it was the pet project of the guy who fired him, but I remember seeing interview with people who said things like "Steve Jobs just doesn't get the Newton". So, looking to the Newton for inspiration may be the totally opposite of what Apple did.
Where are the Open Source PalmOS nerds? While uCLinux looks really neat, It's not palmOS by any measure. Linux was just conceived to do different stuff. There is also a company called OSK who claim to have a Linux and PalmOS compatable operating system, with the base open source, since they'd be in violation of the Linux license if it wasn't. Besides, it seems like a PalmOS emulator running on top of Linux...
Is there, to anyone's knowledge
Its the Ideology(tm)!
The Apple Newton was the most advanced piece of computer technology ever to hit the consumer market. It's application language, NewtonScript, was based on Self, a classless derivative of Smalltalk. That makes the Newton the closest thing going to Alan Kay's original vision of the Dynabook.
It was too big, too expen$ive, and Apple spent about $1.98 marketing it from first to last.
Half the time, when I use my 2100 on an airplane, it stops the stewardesses dead in their tracks. Every time I take my eMate down to the local coffeehouse to work on my novel, people come up and go ga-ga over it. When I show them that it isn't an iBook, costs about 1/3 as much as an iBook, is way lighter than an iBook and is instant-on, they want to know why they haven't seen it in stores. When I tell them it's been in the coffin for over two years, their jaws drop.
The Palm is a perfect device for its niche, but for me it's too small, too slow and too stupid. It's much harder to develop for, that's certain. And it outsold Newton eight ways from Sunday because the form factor was right and because Palm knows how to market.
The fact that Steve Jobs proved he was a big fat boob when the Newton was "Steved" is emotionally satisfying, but, sadly, was almost an afterthought. Newton might have survived if it was properly marketed - the numbers that leaked out of Newton, Inc. showed it was profitable way before it should have been - but that's history.
Newton cannot be reconstructed. Nothing on the market, not even a Psion, can do what a Newton can do. As a result, I've adopted a "bunker mentality". I have several 2100s, several 130s, and an eMate, and I plan to hang onto these and use them for the three to five years it'll take for someone to bring something better to market. For my needs, Palm isn't in the running.
Back in 1996 I bought a Newton MessagePad 120 "demo unit" and thought it was the most wonderful piece of technology I'd ever seen. I envied the MessagePad 2000's and 2100's when they came out but did not want to pay the $900 price tag.
My only major complaint with the Newton was its size. If the Apple-Palm device comes to pass, this is what I'd like to see....
1. A screen the size of the Newton's with the capability of rotating the display. On the 2000's and 2100's you could rotate the display so that the Pad could be held more comfprtably in either your left or right hand as well as "vertically".
2. Airport/wireless capability.
3. IR support.
4. Seemless desktop synchronization (the current HotSync application works great on the Mac though)
5. A "slate" form-factor- Newton-sized screen with the thickness of a Palm V. I would not mind the device being larger than the current Palms as long as it was not much heavier.
6. Built-in USB port for desktop connectivity rather than using a cradle like the current Palms.
7. More ram.
8. Natural handwriting recognition in addition to or instead of Grafitti.
A device like this would be "just dreamy".
Back in 1997 when Steve Jobs was let back into Apple, the Newton group was worried about how long they would last.
At the developer conference Jobs pointed to a 2000 and said:
"Apple makes computers. Computers have keyboards. Does this have a keyboard?"
Amelio, in an attempt to KEEP the Newton group from leaving, spun off the Newton group to Newton Inc to 'sink or swim'. Gil saw the handwriting on the wall: Jobs was removed from Apple by John Scully when Jobs tried to have Scully terminated. As Scully had claimed the Newton as 'his baby', Jobs was working to knife Scully's child. Gil also had watch Newton staff LEAVE for Palm computing when Jobs was brought on board.
At this point, Newton Inc had prototypes of a palm-sized Newton for $500 price point. No PCMCIA card slot etc.
After Gil was gone, the Newton division was spun 'back in'. At this point 32 of the Newton group left IN MASS to Palm. (Other things: Parts for a new run of Newtons were not being ordered, etc) So, the Newton engineers were no longer around. At this point, the Newton was without core developers.
Given the LACK of respect Jobs showed handheld computers/PDA's, was buying Palm a GOOD idea? (IE-would the engineers have STAYED in an Steve Jobs controlled version of Palm...I don't believe so)
Move to present day:
Palm has the TALENT that made rosetta (the handwriting engine)
Apple has the COPYRIGHTS to rosetta
Both sides have lawyers.
If Palm were to come up with REAL handwriting, Apple could sue. Even IF the new version was 'clean' of Apple code, the legal bills would go on for some time.
How can Apple get a cheaper Palm licence? Allow Palm to use rosetta technology in a cross licence agreement.
How long has an Apple branded Palm been rumored? Soon, the 2 year mark will be reached. The time to announce this JUST passed....the Apple love in at MacWorld.
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!