Lithtech 3D Engine Coming to Linux

Phinn writes "Gamecenter is reporting that Monolith Productions is going to be bringing its Lithtech 3D graphics engine to Linux. Lithtech was closely developed with Microsoft and at one time was thought to become Microsoft's DirectEngine. You can get the complete story here."

Comments

Insight

[neildogg]

"The LithTech engine was, at one time, developed "by Monolith under the supervision of Microsoft." According to Monolith CEO Jason Hall, Monolith is no longer officially associated with Microsoft, and the former alliance does not pose any potential problems now that LithTech is expanding to another operating system."

Funny that a company has to clarify that their former association with Microsoft will not post a threat. Big Brother Microsoft in action!

Ironic

[348]

From the article Monolith CEO Jason Halltated:

"As part of our business strategy, it is important for Monolith to make the LithTech development system available to as many developers and platforms as possible--so in that vein, we opted to support Linux. It is an interesting platform. We are excited about its future possibilities, with LithTech available as a development system for it."

The article also states that the Mac port is coming out after they complete the Linux support. This is great news, not being an "Oh yeah, we'll port to Linux also". I really liked the fact that they state clearly that the project was developed under supervision of MS but the ties with Redmond have been severed. I wonder if Ms contracted Monolith to do this, then for whatever reason fell out of favor and not Monolith is using Ms paid for development to support the Linux community. Ironic 'eh?

Never knock on Death's door:

Re:Ironic

[Cb22]

I get the impression that Linux was a bit more of an afterthought that you make it seem.. according to the article, the Mac and Amiga ports "will be ready as soon as possible", while the Linux port won't be out until the second quarter of this year. Closer to the beginning of the article, it mentions that the Mac and Amiga ports have been in the works for a while, and the Linux port was just added to the deal.

Still, though, I agree that the CEO's tone is a good sign. Sounds like they're excited about the port, rather than just kind of grudgingly allowing it. Very cool.

How difficult would the port be?

[Broken Bottle]

To our programmer friends out there: How tough is this port going to be? If I remember correctly, Lithtech was originally called Direct Engine and was supposed to be 100% Direct X related/compatable. I'm not sure how much that changed before the final release of Shogo, but I don't remember a native glide version so I would assume that it's still very Direct X dependant. How tough would it be to retool the engine with the same functions/features for Linux is it was so Windows dependant? Chris

Re:How difficult would the port be?

[348]

A voice of reason from left field. Nicely written.

There have been much more difficult ports done in the past. If the acceleration challenge is the hardest part, the port should be fairly straightforward. I would think it would be much easier to port to Linux than it would be to port the same to a Mac.

Never knock on Death's door:

Linux has a serious problem with its image.

[Anonymous Coward]

This announcement may or may not improve the image Linux has with the domestic consumer. But as someone with a marketing background, I have to say, it just doesn't "smell right" to me.

I have been monitoring the whole "open source" phenomenon since its very beginnings, almost 3 years ago, and I am constantly amazed at the lack of marketing-savvy demonstrated by the commercial entities behind the Linux operating system.

Spare a thought for how the poor consumer must be confused. Linux seems to market itself to what can only be described as the "Rocket Scientist" demographic.

When I first started dabbling with Linux, I was amazed to find that there was no DirectX compatibility. Instead I had to use something called OpenGL.

Now I am pretty technical, having installed NT and Windows98 on my PC at home (and am trusted to re-boot the Exchange server when our support guys are not around), but even I was at a loss when confronted with this techno-babble and garbled nonsense.

Don't the guys behind Linux realise that if they want it to succeed in the marketplace as a consumer platform, they must offer support for the "industry standard" for games (DirectX) rather than the proprietory (and according to many graphics industry experts, technically inferior) OpenGL ?

I have years of experience in marketing, but the message which comes across from Linux (and to a lesser extent from FreeBSD) seems to be screw the customer, if he can't figure it out.

Don't get me wrong, I think Linux has potential to equal Microsoft in terms of stability and ease-of-use, but until we get decent support, via Wizards or similar technology, naive consumers will be left, as I was, wondering how the hell they are supposed to modify the registry, and this is where a platform stands or falls. Not by being complex and unstable (like Linux) but rather by giving the consumer an enhanced out-of-the-box experience. Think AOL, or the old-style Microsoft Network

In conclusion, without DirectX support, Linux is going nowhere, fast.

Again I offer this "open-source" marketing advice for free.

Re:Linux has a serious problem with its image.

[Anonymous Coward]

1. The "open source" phenomenon has been going on longer than three years. Thanks for tuning in.
2. OpenGL is more of an industry standard than DirectX, which is a MS-Only technology. OpenGL is used on MS and EVERYWHERE else (mac, linux, beos, etc)
3. DirectX IS Proprietary, being designed and implemented ONLY by Microsoft.
4. It's obvious you're a marketing person and have NO technical experience with Linux.
5. Linux already surpasses MS in stability. Yes, it has work to go on ease of use.
6. "Support" for wizards? These are simply dialogs. Linux has "support" for these in any UI.
7. There is NO Registry on Linux and IMHO this is a GOOD thing.
8. A Registry (and a utility to edit it) is NOT where a "platform stands or falls". The registry only exists on Win32 platforms. A platform's success rides on many things, none of which is the registry or a regedit facility.
9. Without DirectX support, Linux is going everywhere because it uses OPEN and NON-PROPRIETARY graphics standards which are being supported more and more every day by the gaming community. See Loki's website for the expanding list of titles. Also, id software, epic games, etc.
10. You're free advice is blatantly wrong and full of unresearched and non-defendable positions.

I don't have a login to Slashdot (thus the AC), but my name is Mark Zuber and my email address is mark@nospam.zube.com.

Re:Linux has a serious problem with its image.

[Perrin-GoldenEyes]

Hmmm...I'm not really sure whether this was intended as a troll or not, but I'm going to pretend that it's not because it actually has some really insightful stuff to say.

I'll start by responding to the errors that make me wonder whether it's a troll. First of all the reference to OpenGL as proprietary while suggesting a Direct X port. OpenGL is not particularly proprietary any more (hence the "Open" part), and it available for most platforms currently in use. Furthermore, Direct X is absolutely proprietary. Second Correction: Linux is way more stable than MS OS's and much harder to use. It definately has the potential to be as easy to use as MS OS's.

Okay, now to respond to the stuff I liked: You are absolutely right about Linux being next to impossible for the common user. It has improved greatly in the last year or so, but we still have a VERY long way to go. I'm a senior Computer Science major at a well known university (which probably means aproximately dick), so I'm pretty technically inclined. I've been using Linux since my freshman year. Usually when I want to learn something new about Linux I go to the man page or the HOWTO. Sometimes this helps me. Sometimes it's like another language. When somebody as technically inclined as I am can't even understand the documentation, we definately have a problem.

OTOH, I'm pretty happy with the fact that linux documentation even exists. I love the man system. It's just that we still have quite a ways to go before Linux is ready for the common user's desktop.

As for a port of Direct X, I think that would be pretty cool. I also think that it's extremely unlikely (if it's even possible). I have a feeling that anybody who even tried would get their asses handed to them by MS's legal department. Too bad, though. I suspect that'd result in a huge number of linux game ports.

Cheers,
Perrin.

need a new section

[Frag-A-Muffin]

I think we need a new section for companies coming out of the closet and seeing the light!?

Everyday, we get a few articles on so-and-so company is now porting to/supporting linux.

Don't get me wrong, it's very good news, but I think it's so common now that it deserves its own seciton.

What do you think?

At least Monolith isn't doing the port..

[Forkenhoppen]

Just be glad Monolith themselves aren't making the port. They're a really unreliable company. I bought the game--Windows version--last year, and am still awaiting their AMD 3dNow! enhancements patch. They promised this back when they released the game. The latest patch available is v2.2 which states, in the readme:


- Added support for AMD's 3DNow! technology (thanks to Jayeson Lee-Steere
at AMD for helping us implement support). If you have an AMD 3DNow!
compliant CPU, you can enable this feature by selecting d3d3dnow.ren
under the Display button in the Shogo launcher. Enabling this feature
should provide about a 5%-15% speed improvement. NOTE: Enabling this
feature on non-AMD hardware may cause unpredictable results.

NOTE: We will release the d3d3dnow.ren as a separate upgrade patch
shortly after the release of the 2.2 patch. Check the Shogo
website for the most recent info www.shogo-mad.com.



..the readme's dated 3-9-1999..

That was my first and last purchase of a Monolith product; they've proven to me that they don't take their userbase seriously.

(Another amusing fact about Shogo; the soundtrack is awesome..! But Monolith chopped up the bgm into little eencie weencie .wav files, and named them randomly to keep people from enjoying it outside of the game. THEN they have the nerve to try and sell me a seperate audio cd with the exact same BGM on it..!!)

*grumble* *grumble* ...


James

Re:At least Monolith isn't doing the port..

[Anonymous Coward]

Heya, my name's Chris Hedberg, and I work at Monolith. Yes, I'm an anonymous coward. I have too many %#$@ing passwords already; sue me. :) 1) I bought the game--Windows version--last year, and am still awaiting their AMD 3dNow! enhancements patch. -Ugh, sorry. Yeah, we know. We had a lot of trouble with, around, over and under that 3DNow renderer. The simple upshot: We only have so many coders to go around, and they are *always* overworked. Being a small company, we can't just throw more money at the problem, or more people. As a result, AMD tried to write a renderer for us. Naturally, since they were rewriting a very sensitive glob of code without experience (and a glob of code outsiders ain't s'posed to have to much with) it came out as buggy as a compost heap. Since they couldn't fix things and we didn't have the developer to spare to clean it up, we had to let it go by the wayside. We still have a good relationship with AMD, and we still WANT to add support, but it would take a lot of work. Note that there's no SSI optimization for Shogo/Blood 2 either. :( Believe me, if you bring up the subject of 3DNow with anyone from the Lithtech engine team, they're appropriately red-faced. All we can do is try to keep it from happening again. 2) But Monolith chopped up the bgm into little eencie weencie .wav files, and named them randomly to keep people from enjoying it outside of the game. -Er, blame Microsoft IMA for that. That's how Interactive Music Architechture demanded that you lay out your sound clips in order to make interactive music from 'em. You may not notice, but our music plays back in different, changing sequences depending on the action taking place. The "random" names are actually common in Lith engine games for dialog sound clips, string files and other resources. Believe it or not it makes them easier to track 'n' use. :) -Chris H.

No, we're here now

[SurfsUp]

Okay, now to respond to the stuff I liked: You are absolutely right about Linux being next to impossible for the common user. It has improved greatly in the last year or so, but we still have a VERY long way to go.

No, we're here now. My wife now uses Linux happily - she's pretty much technically clueless - doesn't even know how to copy a file - but she knows how to start ppp, she knows how to start netscape, kmail, etc, and she knows how to surf. Actually, she knows how to do electronic funds transfer using netscape :-) Anyway, the point is she doesn't need to read man pages, she just needs to know how to click icons. My friends kids use Linux - they know how to run games, get on the internet, mail messages to dad over the family network :-) I guess, soon they'll know how to get root... (suggestion: watch daddy's fingers carefully when he logs in)^H^H^H^H^H^H^H[CENSORED]

I'm a senior Computer Science major at a well known university (which probably means aproximately dick), so I'm pretty technically inclined. I've been using Linux since my freshman year. Usually when I want to learn something new about Linux I go to the man page or the HOWTO. Sometimes this helps me. Sometimes it's like another language. When somebody as technically inclined as I am can't even understand the documentation, we definately have a problem.

Not everybody has to read the man pages, but thank goodness they're their, so when I go to troubleshoot somebodies computer, I don't have to keep it all in my head.

Lithtech is more than just graphics

[SEAL]

This engine handles soundfx, music, and networking, in addition to graphics. Porting it to Linux will involve some work, but as others have pointed out - it has already been ported to other platforms. The code, at least in its latest incarnation, is more-or-less written with portability in mind.

Best regards,

SEAL

This is almost to much, but I will try to respond.

[GauteL]

I was astonished by the lack of knowledge that
oozes from this posting, and it seems as if you
were in Microsoftmarketing. Were you?

You seem to have no knowledge of Linux whatsoever,
which makes me think that you haven't monitored
anything.
First of all, Linux is not unstable. Why do you
think it has a higher market share in webservers
than Windows NT-server, but not in places that doesn't need that much stability?
A well maintained Linuxbox can keep up for years without crashing, you can't say that about NT-server.
You were amazed to find "no DirectX compatibility". Have you seen any platforms apart
from windows using DirectX? No?
That's because it is DirectX that is proprietary.
It is Windows-only, and that is because Microsoft
doesn't want to release it for any other platform.
OpenGL however, is open, and ported to a great amount of platforms (Linux, Irix, Solaris, FreeBSD, BeOS, any other Unix..etc.).

Wizards is very possible, but there are plenty
of areas that need attention before they come along. I give you one point here. Newbies like wizards.

But why on earth are you bringing the registry into this? The registry is a very poor idea implemented by Microsoft. It is cryptic, and is impossible to read and understand by human eyes.
Linux however uses text-files for configuration.
I agree that graphical-frontends are necessary (and partly there already), but putting everything
in one big, enormous file, is not the way to go.

What happenes if a program screws up, and you can't repair the registry using a "wizard". (A wizard can only handly very typical situations).
You can't possibly edit the registry by hand, it's to cryptic. If the information had been stored in a text-file, readable by humans, you could have just located the file, and fixed it.

My last point is about DirectX being better than OpenGL. You say that "many experts think that OpenGL is technically inferior to DirectX".
You submit no proof whatsover. Submit a testimony,
and the opposite can always be found.
The truth is that the "experts" do not agree on
this matter, and hopefully, the open solution will win.
Your last remark: "without DirectX support, Linux is going nowhere, fast.". This of course translates into: "Linux is never going anywhere, period", because you will never see DirectX for Linux (you would have, but Microsoft cancelled all attemps at it being cross-plattform, when they bought it).
Does this mean that Linux is screwed?
Of course not. Linux is making progress both
in usability and usermass very quickly.
So I guess your argument must be wrong.

Go with OpenGL

[Animats]

There's a lot to be said for a straight OpenGL implementation. Trying to implement Direct-X for Linux is never going to work well; you'll always be a round behind Microsoft. They're up to what, Direct-X 7, now? And as John Carmack puts it, Direct-X is "broken". It's worth noting that Microsoft's graphics innovations have generally bombed; Talisman and Chrome come to mind.

OpenGL's time has come. Originally, it was intended for expensive high-end graphics machines with exotic hardware like fast FPUs, 24-bit color, Z-buffers, and matrix multipliers. Now, everybody has that stuff. Direct-X started life as a scheme to export low-level hardware capabilities like page-flipping to Windows apps.

Other than as part of a compatibility package for Windows apps, why would you want something similar to Direct-X on Linux?