Red Hat Distributing IBM Java Runtime and Tools

gac writes "The press release today notes: 'Under the agreement, Red Hat will license and distribute IBM's Java Runtime engine, Java Virtual Machine (JVM) and the IBM Developer Kit for Linux, Java Technology Edition. IBM's JavaTechnology will be distributed with the Red Hat Linux Operating Systems (OS) Enterprise Edition. Red Hat will provide worldwide support contact for users of the IBM Java Technology as they create and deploy Java-based Internet solutions on Red Hat Linux.'"

Comments

Re:I'm not sure about IBM's motives

[um... Lucas]

IBM's probably the most earnest pusher of Java in the world.

Sun created Java and still champions is, but they have a vested interest in keeping Solaris as their premiere platfrom. IBM, on the otherhand, sees Java as a way they can unite all of the platforms that they support - Linux, Win32, OS/2, AIX, OS/390, etc...

Part of IBM's a sevice company. Part of it's a hardware company. Part of it's a software company. They don't really work together as much as they should, which is what happens when you get into a decade long anti-trust battle.

But anyways - Redhat's licensing Java from IBM's software developers, not it's services department. The services business that IBM aiming for is not tech support, it's performing huge installs, etc...

I think it's much more beneficial that Redhat handle the tech support. The way I see it, they should have to support everything that they ship on their main CD (not the Demo Apps CD, though)... It'd be such a headache if you called them and they had to refer you to the actual developer of each package on their CD... THAT's the entire reason for their existance - to add value to linux and support their distro.

Re:What about Java2?

[SoftwareJanitor]

VisualAge does not support Java2. Websphere does not support Java2.

This is obsolete information. WebSphere 3.0 and Visual Age for Java 3.0 have support for Java2. We just got our CD's for the 3.0 versions the other day and will be upgrading from the 2.0 versions in the near future.

Re:What about Java2?

[spiral]

>VisualAge does not support Java2.

From the VisualAge web site:

Java 2 and Linux Support

VisualAge for Java Version 3.0 includes an Early Adopters Environment providing support for Java 2, formerly known as JDK 1.2. Developers can start now to build and deploy selected applications that target the Java 2 platform, taking advantage of Java 2 features such as improved security, portability, and advanced user interface controls.

In response to popular demand from developers, IBM is providing VisualAge for Java for the Linux platform, underscoring IBM's commitment to supporting customers on the platforms they choose. With VisualAge for Java support for Linux, developers will be able to quickly build, test and deploy 100% Pure Java applets, applications, JavaBeans components and servlets on Linux. VisualAge for Java on Linux is available at http://www.ibm.com/software/vadd.

Object Oriented COBOL...

[Speare]

As the joke goes...

• C++ is the Object Oriented C.
• ADD ONE TO COBOL. is the Object Oriented COBOL.

Re:What about Java2?

[The_Messenger]

I agree that the name "Java 2" is misleading; there were hardly enough changes to jump from 1.1 to 2, right? Java 2 (which is really JDK 1.2) does have many advantages over "the 'old' version", like bug fixes, added functionality, more classes, et cetera, but code written with JDK 1.1.x is by no means obsolete.

See, Sun decided to be really clever and drop the standard practices used for software versioning It goes like this:

• Solaris 7 is really Solaris 2.7, and came after Solaris 2.6
• Java 2 SDK is really JDK 1.2, and came after JDK 1.1.x

Get it? By dropping the number before the decimal point, they can fool you into thinking it's a whole new version! After all, there's no way we can convince our employers to pay for a software upgrade from 1.1 to 1.2, but 1.1 to 2 must be something big. (But JDK is free, so...? Nevermind.)

Eventually Solaris and Java will have to start using Apple's roman numeral software versioning, because you can't have Java 10. Because Java 10 would be JDK 1.10, which is technology from the Dark Ages (1997!!). My hunch is that they'll start using the "Street Fighter" versioning system, so by 2002 we'll have Java 2 Turbo Alpha Hyper. Capcom managed to survive for five years like that.

Re:comparisons?

[svo]

I care. I can't provide with benchmarks, so here's my own subjective opinion that has formed during long working for TogetherSoft as the only Java developer on the Linux platform there. When IBM first released JDK 1.1.6 it was a relief! Compared to the latest version of Blackdown that existed that time, it was 1.1.7v1a, it demonstrated breakthrough performance, but the stability was so-so. But after release of IBM JDK 1.1.8 it's our recommended Java platform. The performance is about the same as MSVM regarding data handling and a little slower in GUI areas. It means that it is VERY fast. The only problem with IBM VM is their JIT that is build with correct code in mind. So if you use a scrambled application and the scrambler was not at its best mangling the bytecode, chances are that you get signal 11.
About Sun JDK1.2 that they ripped from Blackdown. They (Sun/Inprise) acted not very nicely with Blackdown, but whatever has happened - we now have a fast and stable Java 2 VM on Linux. The Blackdown's version was out of questions - it could run some tests and Swing demos but it never worked for complex applications - I have tried it with a variety of them. It is hard to compare the performance of Java 2 vs IBM JDK 1.1.8, but they seem like equal to me and both are good.
My impressions are formed on using and writing Together/J a massive and complex Java modelling tool - if there's something wrong with the VM and app is complex enough you notice it soon. Both IBM 1.1.8 and Sun JDK 1.2 (I only worked with rc1 so far) proved stability and high performance. Blackdown's versions are totally of no use since we have them, sorry.

IBM's PR Turnaround

[FreshView]

I'd like to point out that IBM has recently done an excellent job of grabbing good PR where it used to be terrible. There was a time when IBM was as hated as Microsoft is today, and now even the "underground Microsoft resistance" doesn't have too much bad to say about IBM. I imagine it stems from their underdog status gained during the development of OS/2. Or, it could be their lack of unfair business practices.

Does this IBM VM come with source code? I'd love to get a look at that.

Re:IBM's PR Turnaround

[SoftwareJanitor]

There was a time when IBM was as hated as Microsoft is today,

You are very correct. I used to be a very vocal critic of IBM, much as I am of Microsoft now. Many of the things I find objectionable about Microsoft now are tactics that I believe they learned from the IBM of the 60's to the mid 80's.

and now even the "underground Microsoft resistance" doesn't have too much bad to say about IBM. I imagine it stems from their underdog status gained during the development of OS/2.

OS/2 may be more important to other people than it is to me. I never really was very interested in it, as I was a *nix person before OS/2 was first announced.

Or, it could be their lack of unfair business practices.

For me, my attitude to IBM has changed mostly because I have seen solid evidence that they have really cleaned up their act and are now a company that is conducting business in an ethical manner. To be totally honest, I was surprised when things changed at IBM, particularly how quickly they have been able to turn things around. But it is certainly a pleasant surprise. I won't say that I don't still view IBM with a little long term cautiousness, but until I see any evidence of backsliding on their part I am encouraged.

Re:Still only Java 1.1, though?

[scenic]

They've promised to support 1.2, as well. You have to understand that they don't just stick a few bells and whistles in and then repackage it. IBM has 3 labs working on various aspects of the JVM. Some of the improvements they've made are truly impressive. IBM JDK1.1.8 speeds on Windows approach natively compiled Java code (a la TowerJ) on the same platform. The Linux 1.1.8 JDK is not that far behind. Take a look at IBM's dev site to see benchmarks and information. They're still working on similar levels of performance for the 1.2 JDK. Personally, I can't wait.

I've run the Blackdown 1.2 JDK and the IBM 1.1.8 JDK and there is no doubt the IBM version is faster. Granted, it doesn't "know" how to do as much, but even considering that factor, the 1.1.8 JDK kicks solid ass.

Sujal

What about Java2?

[mbowler]

IBM makes lots of noise about supporting Java but what they never mention is that they're supporting an OLDER version of the language. None of IBM's JVM's support Java2 (JDK1.2+). VisualAge does not support Java2. Websphere does not support Java2.

Java2 has been out for quite a while and the fact that IBM still doesn't support it doesn't give me any confidence that they will stay current in the future. How long will it take for them to support 1.3 or the version after that?

Some parts of IBM are doing some really cool things with Java, an example being the Jikes compiler. If you look closely, however, you'll notice that the only parts of IBM doing CURRENT java stuff are research projects. All the products that IBM plans to make money from are using an OLD version of Java. Admittedly, they're still working on the product and are making it faster and more robust but they're supporting the wrong version of the language.

Hearing that IBM will distribute their VM's with all the major linux distros doesn't make me overly happy. Why do I want another Java 1 VM?

If all the distros are going to be providing a version of Java then it should be a CURRENT version. The Blackdown Java2 VM would be a much better choice IMO.

IBM has similar deals with Caldera and Turbolinux

[Carnage4Life]

IBM seems to be set to render Sun irrelevant to the future of Java...They are making the right Linux moves as well as good moves in the Java & XML front. I can't wait to get a IBM's JDK on my linux box. :)
Oh happy day...