Cyberkidd writes "According to CNN, one of the NSA's main spy computers crashed for three days, and has not been completely fixed yet. No details as to the type of computer, but one can only wonder if it was a Microsoft Blue Screen..."
A rather important computer system crashes and is down for three days, and Slashdot responds with a trite poke at Microsoft.
Who knows what the system was running? If it was that central and critical a system, isn't it much more likely it was a mainframe, or even a Solaris or IRIX system, than Windows? Was this Slashdot article posted as nothing more than another excuse to belabor the obvious and gripe about Microsoft?
I'm posting this anonymously to prevent having my karma sunk into a black hole by daring to say something negative about Slashdot, but it had to be said.
Rob didn't say it, Cyberkidd did (notice the quotes...), and emmett posted it. Rob may have some responsibility because he started Slashdot up and coded a lot of the code behind it, but lets not get too crazy.
The "jab" at Microsoft was supposed to be funny. You are supposed to say, "Ha ha, like their using Microsoft on a super computer!" It's a joke!
Oh and yes, I'm sure Rob knows that there are bigger computers out there than PCs.
Surely they can think....
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 2
...of better stunts than this to get funding. Then again, perhaps it's harder to get Congresss' collective ear and purse strings when there has been a marked decrease in the amount of juicy tid-bids they can throw to congress-critters. Maybe it's time to privatize the NSA? (that's a thinly vailed good'ol boyz joke among those who know).
If they are dead set against allocating more funds for the NSA, stunts like these won't help them.
Who said they are dead set? The general theme as it appears to me is that the NSA is looking invincible and more powerful than any other agency in the entire US Government. Remember, we're talking about guys who used attorney-client priveledge against the senate as a stonewalling measure!
This is to make them seem weaker, less invincible, more fallible...not to anyone overseas, who still can't assume the NSA won't be able to crack something, but locally, so that the won't ever not be able to crack something.
That's the idea, at least.
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky DoxPara Research http://www.doxpara.com
The NSA is all about controlled image. Most government agencies are--I've heard some rather interesting stories of military coverups--but the NSA is particularly secretive.
You don't get referred to as No Such Agency for no reason;-)
If the NSA is making this announcement, it's because A) They're making a statement about the difficult situation that export regulations are going to put them in(remember--they're the ones who get the flack when they're given an uncrackable signal) and B) They want more money, or at least their existing funds not to go away. As long as their situation is inadequate, all those "one time upgrade" budget justifications can survive. As soon as they appear in full working order, it's cool to take a few points off the top from them.
Ah, the machinations of government...
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky DoxPara Research http://www.doxpara.com
Sounds as though they need an upgrade. This article was linked to at the bottom of the page. It seems they are having the same problems as, I'm sure, many companies are. Too much information. A quote from the story, "The largest U.S. spy agency -- the National Security Agency -- is in crisis, overwhelmed by too many targets, too much information and the challenges created by increasingly sophisticated technologies." Somewhat surprising that they would see something like this coming and not take steps to remedy the problem. Or is it?
----------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
Giving up some freedoms is essential, though...
by
Skim123
·
· Score: 2
"Those who wish to give up their freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve either."
But everyone gives up some freedoms to protect others... I believe my high school government teacher referred to it as a "social contract," although it's been several years...
For example, you surrender your right to purchase chemical weapons so that others (in theory) will not purchase chemical weapons, therefore greatly lessening the threat to your life from chemical weapons (a choppy example, sorry).
Anyway, giving up some basic freedoms is essential, in order to protect others. While I don't like the prospect of a government "listening in" on me, if I have to give up that freedom to protect my life, it's worth it. Now, we're not to the point today, I doubt, that if the NSA went away, terrorists would begin terrorizing US cities, killing innocent citizens, but, perhaps one day this will be the case, if it's not already...
--
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
Re:NSA Computer Operating System
by
Syberghost
·
· Score: 2
They have larger Sun boxes as well.
NSA Computer Operating System
by
Detritus
·
· Score: 4
No details as to the type of computer, but one can only wonder if it was a Microsoft Blue Screen...
Highly unlikely.
From unclassified information in the press, the NSA has large numbers of Sun workstations (Solaris) and Cray/SGI supercomputers (Unicos).
-- Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Re:NSA lesser of evils? Or the worse?
by
JamesKPolk
·
· Score: 2
Note that
Hitler Stalin Napoleon
Were all working under the auspices of modern government, and
Marx
advocated revolt, and replacement of current government with the new one. I'm surprised you didn't mention Mao, because Mao's early stuff pretty much followed Marx.
Re:NSA lesser of evils? Or the worse?
by
JamesKPolk
·
· Score: 4
Which is less fearsome? The power of the individual, or the power of a group?
I think that history has shown that governments have the power to do far greater harm, than lone nuts.
Re:NSA lesser of evils? Or the worse?
by
Sloppy
·
· Score: 2
The bigger the group, the harder it is for them to maintain a conspiracy.
I don't like the way NSA seems to be able to operate without accountability, and I would be shocked and amazed if a large portion of their budget wasn't embezzled. And I would also be shocked and amazed if they weren't doing illegal things against US citizens. However, if they were up to something too hideous, I think it would have leaked. They're so big!
Dr. Evil's team, on the other hand, is small enough that the people within it can keep a secret. So perhaps there's value in having NSA's electric eye turn toward them, whenever NSA people feel like taking a break from playing Peeping Tom with our day-to-day lives.
---
-- As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Dawkins figured all this stuff out.
by
Sloppy
·
· Score: 2
While I'm no psychologist, I think that on an 'instinctive' level it's the species that counts. Humans truly are social animals, and often enough the herd mentality shows through. Even in simple ways, such as procreation. Why are people so obsessed with sex? Preserves the species.
No. We're strongly motivated to procreate because genes that encouraged that behavior are the ones that become more numerous.
But on an intellectual level, people seem more concerned with themselves. Would you be willing to die to save people you've never met before? And certainly the drive of possesiveness seems to stem form self-preservation.
Same explanation as above.
Perhaps it is this mixture of species- and self-preservation that explains why humans as a group are so fscked up.
Gene selection theory explains it all without any problems, unlike the ones that crop up in species selection and individual selection.
This might also be the origin of our notions of courage and honor: putting your people above yourself.
Those notions are taught by cultures, and don't otherwise occur naturally. They're memes.
---
-- As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
[OFFTOPIC] == I believe x.com and z.com predate the rule disallowing single-letter domains. The other screwups to which you refer were from new registrars and this is with NSI -- so, in any case, it's not part of the same problem. == The "record created" date is not necessarily the date the domain was registered - it could be that, on that date, the domain was transfered to a new owner (therefore, a new record).
The poke at Microsoft was a joke! Nobody seriously thinks that the NSA uses Microsoft products to perform mission critical communication and/or cryptanalysis(sp?) work. And we ALL know that the crash of a Microsoft OS is not a newsworthy event.
Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation
-- Information is not Knowledge
Re:Boy, someone can't take a joke.
by
Frac
·
· Score: 2
haha, hoohoo, hoe boy, what you said just as funny. Somebody help me stop laughing!!!!!
On a slightly more serious note, I can't believe people still find unoriginal cheap jabs at Microsoft funny anymore. "Hey that guys mentioned something about blue screens! micro$uck$!! hahahaha!!! windo$w$!! n0tice the dollar $ign$!! I'm a comedian too!"
Sorry to find out that you don't like the sense of humor of the Earthlings! tee hee!
And give us back our Mars Polar Lander, biatch!
You'd think that Slashdot posts were a little off-
by
extrasolar
·
· Score: 5
...and the moon isn't full. But I beleive that the CNN article was a clearly direct attempt to stir up another Slashdot post. Then once the story hit Slashdot, the operatives under cover in foreign lands beep back *using Slashdot* for their medium of communication using some mind-boggling form code-encryption that appears to us as First Posts and random references to Natalie Portman.
NSA, CIA, and mere mortals, I'M ON TO YOU!!!
Muah hah hahahahahah!
Re:The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress
by
0xdeadbeef
·
· Score: 2
Great quotes!
I imagine many slashdot readers and most people who consider themselves libertarians would agree with those quotes.
So consider this: if you concede that ultimate responsiblity always ends with the individual, then how does one hold people accountable for their actions when encryption technology makes it impossible to determine who is responsible for them?
We detest the secrecy and lack of accountability of the NSA, but at the same time trumpet the idea that the solution to their tyranny is to emulate them. How do you reconcile that?
Monday's crash affected "the processing of intelligence, but not the collection of intelligence," according to the spokeswoman.
Thank you for calling the NSA. All operators are busy, but we value your call and hope you'll stay on the line and we'll get back to you in the order your call was received. Your call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.
Sources said the problem occurred because the computer system was overloaded and badly stressed.
Basically, they forgot to feed the hamsters and the wheels just stopped a-turnin'. It's really sad that the US claims to be the last-remaining and still reigning superpower but can't afford to slap another couple nodes on the NSA's infrastructure. But as we all know, monopolies breed complacency....
--
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
The Truth (Might Be) Out There
by
rjh
·
· Score: 5
Just a few thoughts on the subject. Feel free to moderate me as (+1, -1, +2, -pi, Moderation As Rambling As The Content Is).
1. For the last two or three months the NSA has been playing "woe is me". Check out the press they've received recently; most egregiously was a Newsweek article which was very possibly written by the NSA. The NSA knows that the best PR is no PR -- the more people who watch the NSA, the harder it is for them to do their job. If people must watch the NSA, best if they point, laugh and make rude noises to mock them... after all, if the NSA is a laughingstock, nobody will take them seriously, which makes it easier for them to do their job.
2. Never believe anything the NSA tells you without independent confirmation. If the NSA feels it's in the national security of the United States to lie to you, they'll do so with a straight face and a clear conscience. The NSA says that some computers went down? Great -- big deal, computers go down all the time. "No," the NSA says, "these were important computers." Great -- that happens all the time, too. What, don't you guys have backup systems? A budget larger than every other intelligence agency combined and you can't afford redundant, independent computers for your mission-critical tasks?
Something in there just doesn't sound right to me.
3. The ability to process information is now more important than the ability to collect it. The article says that an NSA official downplayed the incident, saying that data was still collected -- it just wasn't processed and it'll have to be looked at later. Sounds like it wasn't too bad after all, right?
No. It means the NSA was blind, deaf and dumb, and not only that, they will likely forever be blind, deaf and dumb to events that happened during those few days.
NASA still has data from the Apollo Program which they haven't had the time or resources to look through and catalog yet. The NSA collects orders of magnitude more data than NASA, and unless they've got some incredibly advanced form of storage technology, they simply cannot store data for very long. They do not have the manpower or the resources to look through their backlog; with the scope and prevalence of digital communications today, they're drowning -- they must be drowning -- in a tidal wave of noise searching for the life-preserver of signal. It's a Herculean task.
... Add all of the above together and what do you get? I don't know. If I knew, I'd be Bruce Schneier.
They were trying to crack Kevin's HDD
by
GMontag
·
· Score: 2
It was obviously a failed attempt to crack and read the Gig of encycephered files on Kevin Mitnick's computers before the appeals court forces their rightful return to Kevin;->
Are they looking for sympathy?
by
redelm
·
· Score: 3
This is very odd--Why would the NSA let us know their machines are down, and they can't get them up? Are they trying to lull us into complacency? Disinformation is an important tactic of spyies.
Now, I recognize the importance of National Security, and the role the NSA plays in it. But frankly, with ECHELON etc, they haven't convinced me that their actions are solely devoted to defending against foreign threats. That is the law, and I think they bend or break it.
National Security is rather important, no matter how greedy or crooked the fucks are.
The NSA randomly monitors all voice and data transmissions, even those of people who have not and never will commit a crime. Like grandmothers. And scoutmasters. And Natalie Portman (moderators, please don't moderate this down because of mentioning her, it's just an example!). Yes, national security is important, and a lot of groups have agents inside this country for less than honorable reasons, but they now treat everyone like a criminal.
Our Rights (which we really haven't had in 30 years)
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, [I consider my communications to be my property -- kc] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Where's the warrant stating my crimes? Why has the NSA intercepted and stored my communications as evidence?
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
Since the federal government classifies my copy of PGP as a munition (even with the recent relaxation of export regulations) it is therefore 'Arms' (a synonym of 'munitions') and any attempt to break my encrypted communications is therefore an infringement of my rights given to me by our founding fathers. Sure, Thomas Jefferson et al could not foresee the future, but they laid down the Bill of Rights in plain language to insure the rights of every American citizen for as long as this great country stands.
I propose the NSA turns it's voice and data scanning to a truly criminal group inside this country.
Facts about this relatively (less than 600 total) group as of mid-1999.
29 members of this group have been accused of spousal abuse
7 have been arrested for fraud.
19 have been accused of writing bad checks.
3 have been arrested for assault.
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges.
8 have been arrested for shoplifting.
84 were stopped for drunk driving, but released after they claimed immunity.
This group, ladies and gentlemen, is The United States Congress. source: www.firecongress.com.
It doesn't matter how crooked our watchdogs are? Bullshit! It matters very much. Most of us born after 1970 have never been able to communicate electronically without a chance of interception. We are one of the most carefully watched societies on the planet, and I don't see that changing. Do you believe that you're best protected when the government treats everyone like a criminal? I don't. And I don't like living in a prison, which is all this country will amount to the farther we travel down this path.
And no, this is not assfucking our country and you so eloquently put it. Our country is asking us to bend over which is not their right because their power devolves from the people, not the other way around. Put into your vernacular the can only assfuck you if you've given permission, which you seem more than willing to do.
Kristian C. Note to the NSA's computers if you read this: Fuck off.
NSA lesser of evils? Or the worse?
by
grmoc
·
· Score: 3
I'm of two minds about the NSA and related branches.
One one hand, I'm afraid of the power they wield. On the other hand,I'm afriad of the power that can be wielded by crazy, lone individuals.
The sad fact is that it is becoming easier and easier to create weapons of mass destruction, and easier and easier to deliver them.
This is very scary, because some of these things (biological) have the capacity to wipe us out.
I'm for the perpetuation of our species first and foremost, and as a result I'd rather have big brother than not exist. (It is in big brother's best interest to perpetuate the species)
So is this good, or is it bad?
What are you more afraid of? Losing your individual rights, or fearful for our species?
I, personally, am torn.
Re:NSA lesser of evils? Or the worse?
by
paulbd
·
· Score: 2
I think it was Margaret Mead who said:
Never let it be said that small numbers of people cannot change the world. Indeed, they are the the only thing that ever has.
So, I don't know whether "the government" or "lone nuts" are more powerful or not.
Re:NSA lesser of evils? Or the worse?
by
xee
·
· Score: 2
"Those who wish to give up their freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve either." -Ben Franklin
(if it's verbatim, then my memory's better than I thought!)
-- Oh shit! I forgot to click "Post Anonymously"...
The way they make it sound....
by
gothic
·
· Score: 2
The way CNN makes it sound is like a HD went down or something, or perhaps a race-condition of some sort or another. Someone did raise a good question, why would the NSA admit to something like this? From the article it appears they didn't loose anything, so good for them, but I wonder how 'back-logged' they became. I honestly can't think of a reason for them to tell, but if they did, maybe they'll release more info. Something saucy like "Don't use IDE on your servers, SCSI is your friend..".. =]
Re:You are WAY too paranoid
by
Stonehand
·
· Score: 2
*raises an eyebrow*
Pacific? For the most part, perhaps, but... there are still
a) foreign intelligence services operating in the US and elsewhere, whose interests do not coincide -- and "allies" generally do spy on each other. Witness the recent reports over France spying on British commercial interests, most likely passing on the industrial espionage to its own companies, for instance. Admittedly, those two have fought a number of wars, but they're *nominally* friendly now.
b) extremist groups of all types here -- from small-time groups like radical eco-terrorists who'll likely do no more than arson, B&E, trespass and the occasional attempted murder; to "religious" fundies who ignore prohibits about bloodshed, and decide to express their viewpoints through home-made bombs; and so forth. There are quite a few people with violent tendencies and a serious grudge against the Gov't, heretics, or whatever other group you care to name.
c) Some of their monitoring probably deals with overseas investigations -- people over here connected with folks over there. If, say, a drug kingpin in Miami went looking to obtain Russian surplus military hardware from a underpaid, rather disgruntled general, the NSA could be handy. Or if somebody realized he could be making quite a lot of money selling US-made automatic rifles over to the British underground...
Shady NSA-type: "Here are the logs of encrypted material we can't decrypt (lawfully). We hope you British intelligence types can benefit from our wiretapping."
Shady British Intelligence-type: "Why, thank you! For no connected reason, here is a copy of our wiretapping data. If you find anything, let us know, k?"
Shady NSA-type: "No problem. Friends are as friends do. Aww, you look like you need a good back scratch turn around.. When I'm done, scratch my back."
Shady British Intelligence-type: "Sure. I love these Echelon backscratchers."
All the governments of the world are starting to work together to stop real privacy.. Sigh
---
-- -- Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I don't want to hear any of that anti-MS flaming! Why? The NSA probably doesn't use MS for something as mission critical as intelligence processing. If Joey S. Hacker can tell that MS products aren't good enough, don't you think the professional hacks at the NSA know it too? Second, something that is expected to handle real-time amounts of sigint That's the realm of IRIX, MCOS, etc, NOT MS. Microsoft gets enough bad press on it's own merits.
Just a thought, but wouldn't it be amazing to see the combined powers of/. secure a box. I'm sure there would be a huge amount of argument about what's to be done, but that's why I love slashdot.
It would also provide a larger analogy for the security of linux if we could show exactly how the box was secured and then challenge people to break in. I know that I would benefit hugely from seeing how it would be done and it would give a lot of people a chance to flex their skills.
-- "Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality."
-- Dalai Lama
Maybe someone could help me out here, but it seems to me that the NSA would be able to run whatever they wanted, probably something with support for multiple processors, and I wasn't aware of windows being able to support multiple processors well. I just thought the NSA would be able to at least come up with some native OS that only they would use since they are so secretive, and they have so many bright people.
This preponderance on technology
by
threaded
·
· Score: 2
At Bletchley Park they used to have this wonderful card index system. The only problem was that the table legs used to give out on account of the weight.
Re:They should have used OS/2!
by
jmp100
·
· Score: 2
I can. There are apps like PCAnywhere and VNM (the latter being free) which enables remote use of the computer.
BTW, why do we have to have Windows bashing in the article SUMMARIES on the FRONT PAGE? Don't journalists honor the values of letting the READERS make their OWN judgments anymore? Grow the fsck up. Linux is an O/S, not a lifestyle. (emacs, on the other hand, does appear to be a lifestyle.)
Seriously, proposing that Windows is somehow to blame for a supercomputer crashing is childish. Guess what, folks: NO ONE CARES WHETHER YOU HATE BILL GATES. It ranks right up there with pepole who make homepages that say "HI !!! I AM 8 AND I HAVE A HAMSTER AND MY FAVORITE COLOR IS ORANGE".
I could understand if it were the computer the made the universe work, but this strikes me as not news worthy.
It was more likely reported to win the bet that all of the major news networks have with one another about who can stretch Y2K reporting as late in the year as possible.
I submitted a great article about the genetic engineering of foods, and it gets rejected, and then they pick a story about a BSOD.
It is used in the context of the deliberate spreading of rumours (possibly lies) in order to create confusion and uncertainty about a new and untested product, platform, idea or business. This is done with the intention of preventing the uptake of said FUD target through two means:
a) The uninformed masses may regard the FUD as true. They therefore quite naturally avoid taking any risks.
b) The informed few, even though they may see through the FUD, realise that the FUD target will be unpopular and unsuccessful because of the general misinformation and hence decide to cut their losses and avoid it themselves.
Now I'm sorry to be a pedant, but FUD is clearly a tactic that only be used against a new, unproven technology or a newcomer to the market. Hence Microsoft may be able to spread FUD about Linux.
The reverse is not true. There is no way in hell that Linux Zealots could convince the world that Microsoft products are unfeasible, unpopular or unusable. Trying to use FUD tactics against microsoft is like trying to stop an elephant with a water pistol.
What Microsoft-bashing you may observe on Slashdot may be pointless abuse, but simply by definition it cannot be regarded as FUD. I dissaprove of mindless Microsoft-bashing as much as the next guy, but we should all recognise that FUD is a completely different phenomenon entirely.
Whenever articles about the big, bad NSA pop up on./ everyone suddenly becomes a HERO OF DEMOCRACY. Yeah. Everyone here realizes that the same constitution that they so happily enjoy quoting also allows them to get off their fat asses and run for office to change things "for the better." If people here are so right and all of the people , like me for instance, in the world are wrong then why don't you do something useful about it instead of bitch and complain about such useless shit as "echelon." With more and more nuclear capable countries coming up in this new millenium do you really think the NSA or CIA or whoever really gives a half ass shit about anybody on./? No. And for your information the FBI is the one who works with militia groups, not the NSA. The NSA is military, not civilian and they do not carry out domestic duties unless there is a military reason to do so. And all of this FUD about the NSA, as so many people enjoy calling it, is simply humorous to read. And, no, the NSA does not hire people from this group to work there. Get a fucking clue people. I am senior in Mathematics and I applied to work at the NSA spring 99 semester. They are very serious. They don't give a fuck about people like you. I was asked POINT BLANK under a lie detector whether I ever had anti-government thoughts or tendencies or if I was ever part of a militia or militant group. And of course I said NO. I am an American and I believe in what my country stands for and what it does to protect itself from enemies foreign and domestic. Some of the people on this website should make any American sick to his stomach. You don't like it, vote.
I'm frankly surprised we heard about this at all, considering how tight-lipped the NSA is. An admission that a depended-on computer has crashed -- and even more surprising, an admission for how long it's been down!
On the other hand, this admission tells me that they think that the glitch is internal. That is, they are not worried about providing confirmation that an outside attack has worked. (Or, conversely, there -was- an attack, and they think they know how to trap whoever did it and so want to goad them into trying again) Isn't it fun analyzing press releases?
The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress
by
mangu
·
· Score: 2
"Prof., as I see, there are no circumstances under which State is justified in placing its welfare ahead of mine."
"May I ask this ? Under which circumstances is it moral for a group to do that which is not moral for a member of that group to do alone ?"
"But I believe in capital punishment under some circumstances... with this difference. I would not ask a court; I would try, condemn, execute sentence myself, and accept full responsibility."
"A rational anarchist believes that concepts such as 'state' and 'society' and 'government' have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame... as blame, guilt and responsibility are matters taking place inside human beings and nowhere else."
"My point is that some person is responsible. Always. If H-bombs exist - and they do - some person controls them. In terms of morals there is no such thing as 'state'. Just men. Individuals. Each responsible for his own acts."
"But I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; If I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am responsible for everything I do."
"What I fear most are affirmative actions of sober and well intentioned men, granting the government power to do something that appears to need doing."
"The power to tax, once conceded, has no limits; it contains until it destroys."
Robert A. Heinlein
NSA faking the systems crash?
by
ActiveSex
·
· Score: 2
Isn't is possible that the NSA is using the media to spread a false rumour about a crashed system to lure hackers into attempting attacks on other NSA systems?
They might be hoping that hackers will think that because one system went down, the rest are weakened as a result, and it should be easy for them to be taken down.
While a bunch of hackers are trying to attack a computer system that is really fully operational, the NSA is monitoring the types of attacks that are being mounted, and where they are originating from. This way they get useful data to make their computers even more secure, and as a bonus, they also get leads on a few more elite hackers. (That's assuming that only the elite would get far enough as to attacking an NSA computer:)
-Markus
Rainy days and automatic weapons always get me down.
Umm...Might be going out on a limb here, but aren't WE the "professional" hackers that the NSA recruits from and such? I mean, wouldn't it make sense that anyone nerdy enough to get hired on as an NSA nerd/hacker would HAVE TO be nerdy enough to be registered here at/.???!!!??? Just a thought.
That single perl script they are running to parse all the world's email for words like "BOMB" and "ENCRYPTION" must of finally choked from our Echelon protest last month;)
Slashdot Mirror
A rather important computer system crashes and is down for three days, and Slashdot responds with a trite poke at Microsoft.
Who knows what the system was running? If it was that central and critical a system, isn't it much more likely it was a mainframe, or even a Solaris or IRIX system, than Windows? Was this Slashdot article posted as nothing more than another excuse to belabor the obvious and gripe about Microsoft?
I'm posting this anonymously to prevent having my karma sunk into a black hole by daring to say something negative about Slashdot, but it had to be said.
...of better stunts than this to get funding. Then again, perhaps it's harder to get Congresss' collective ear and purse strings when there has been a marked decrease in the amount of juicy tid-bids they can throw to congress-critters. Maybe it's time to privatize the NSA? (that's a thinly vailed good'ol boyz joke among those who know).
If they are dead set against allocating more funds for the NSA, stunts like these won't help them.
Who said they are dead set? The general theme as it appears to me is that the NSA is looking invincible and more powerful than any other agency in the entire US Government. Remember, we're talking about guys who used attorney-client priveledge against the senate as a stonewalling measure!
This is to make them seem weaker, less invincible, more fallible...not to anyone overseas, who still can't assume the NSA won't be able to crack something, but locally, so that the won't ever not be able to crack something.
That's the idea, at least.
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
The NSA is all about controlled image. Most government agencies are--I've heard some rather interesting stories of military coverups--but the NSA is particularly secretive.
;-)
You don't get referred to as No Such Agency for no reason
If the NSA is making this announcement, it's because A) They're making a statement about the difficult situation that export regulations are going to put them in(remember--they're the ones who get the flack when they're given an uncrackable signal) and B) They want more money, or at least their existing funds not to go away. As long as their situation is inadequate, all those "one time upgrade" budget justifications can survive. As soon as they appear in full working order, it's cool to take a few points off the top from them.
Ah, the machinations of government...
Yours Truly,
Dan Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
Sounds as though they need an upgrade. This article was linked to at the bottom of the page. It seems they are having the same problems as, I'm sure, many companies are. Too much information. A quote from the story, "The largest U.S. spy agency -- the National Security Agency -- is in crisis, overwhelmed by too many targets, too much information and the challenges created by increasingly sophisticated technologies." Somewhat surprising that they would see something like this coming and not take steps to remedy the problem. Or is it?
----------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
But everyone gives up some freedoms to protect others... I believe my high school government teacher referred to it as a "social contract," although it's been several years...
For example, you surrender your right to purchase chemical weapons so that others (in theory) will not purchase chemical weapons, therefore greatly lessening the threat to your life from chemical weapons (a choppy example, sorry).
Anyway, giving up some basic freedoms is essential, in order to protect others. While I don't like the prospect of a government "listening in" on me, if I have to give up that freedom to protect my life, it's worth it. Now, we're not to the point today, I doubt, that if the NSA went away, terrorists would begin terrorizing US cities, killing innocent citizens, but, perhaps one day this will be the case, if it's not already...
I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.
They have larger Sun boxes as well.
Highly unlikely.
From unclassified information in the press, the NSA has large numbers of Sun workstations (Solaris) and Cray/SGI supercomputers (Unicos).
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Note that
Hitler
Stalin
Napoleon
Were all working under the auspices of modern government, and
Marx
advocated revolt, and replacement of current government with the new one. I'm surprised you didn't mention Mao, because Mao's early stuff pretty much followed Marx.
Which is less fearsome? The power of the individual, or the power of a group?
I think that history has shown that governments have the power to do far greater harm, than lone nuts.
The bigger the group, the harder it is for them to maintain a conspiracy.
I don't like the way NSA seems to be able to operate without accountability, and I would be shocked and amazed if a large portion of their budget wasn't embezzled. And I would also be shocked and amazed if they weren't doing illegal things against US citizens. However, if they were up to something too hideous, I think it would have leaked. They're so big!
Dr. Evil's team, on the other hand, is small enough that the people within it can keep a secret. So perhaps there's value in having NSA's electric eye turn toward them, whenever NSA people feel like taking a break from playing Peeping Tom with our day-to-day lives.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
No. We're strongly motivated to procreate because genes that encouraged that behavior are the ones that become more numerous.
Same explanation as above.
Gene selection theory explains it all without any problems, unlike the ones that crop up in species selection and individual selection.
Those notions are taught by cultures, and don't otherwise occur naturally. They're memes.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
== I believe x.com and z.com predate the rule disallowing single-letter domains. The other screwups to which you refer were from new registrars and this is with NSI -- so, in any case, it's not part of the same problem.
== The "record created" date is not necessarily the date the domain was registered - it could be that, on that date, the domain was transfered to a new owner (therefore, a new record).
========
<sig>Guvf vf abg n frperg zrffntr
The poke at Microsoft was a joke! Nobody seriously thinks that the NSA uses Microsoft products to perform mission critical communication and/or cryptanalysis(sp?) work. And we ALL know that the crash of a Microsoft OS is not a newsworthy event.
Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation
Information is not Knowledge
On a slightly more serious note, I can't believe people still find unoriginal cheap jabs at Microsoft funny anymore. "Hey that guys mentioned something about blue screens! micro$uck$!! hahahaha!!! windo$w$!! n0tice the dollar $ign$!! I'm a comedian too!"
Sorry to find out that you don't like the sense of humor of the Earthlings! tee hee!
And give us back our Mars Polar Lander, biatch!
...and the moon isn't full. But I beleive that the CNN article was a clearly direct attempt to stir up another Slashdot post. Then once the story hit Slashdot, the operatives under cover in foreign lands beep back *using Slashdot* for their medium of communication using some mind-boggling form code-encryption that appears to us as First Posts and random references to Natalie Portman.
NSA, CIA, and mere mortals, I'M ON TO YOU!!!
Muah hah hahahahahah!
Great quotes!
I imagine many slashdot readers and most people who consider themselves libertarians would agree with those quotes.
So consider this: if you concede that ultimate responsiblity always ends with the individual, then how does one hold people accountable for their actions when encryption technology makes it impossible to determine who is responsible for them?
We detest the secrecy and lack of accountability of the NSA, but at the same time trumpet the idea that the solution to their tyranny is to emulate them. How do you reconcile that?
--
Monday's crash affected "the processing of intelligence, but not the collection of intelligence," according to the spokeswoman.
Thank you for calling the NSA. All operators are busy, but we value your call and hope you'll stay on the line and we'll get back to you in the order your call was received. Your call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.
Sources said the problem occurred because the computer system was overloaded and badly stressed.
Basically, they forgot to feed the hamsters and the wheels just stopped a-turnin'. It's really sad that the US claims to be the last-remaining and still reigning superpower but can't afford to slap another couple nodes on the NSA's infrastructure. But as we all know, monopolies breed complacency....
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
Did someone smurf the Echelon?
Just a few thoughts on the subject. Feel free to moderate me as (+1, -1, +2, -pi, Moderation As Rambling As The Content Is).
1. For the last two or three months the NSA has been playing "woe is me". Check out the press they've received recently; most egregiously was a Newsweek article which was very possibly written by the NSA. The NSA knows that the best PR is no PR -- the more people who watch the NSA, the harder it is for them to do their job. If people must watch the NSA, best if they point, laugh and make rude noises to mock them... after all, if the NSA is a laughingstock, nobody will take them seriously, which makes it easier for them to do their job.
2. Never believe anything the NSA tells you without independent confirmation. If the NSA feels it's in the national security of the United States to lie to you, they'll do so with a straight face and a clear conscience. The NSA says that some computers went down? Great -- big deal, computers go down all the time. "No," the NSA says, "these were important computers." Great -- that happens all the time, too. What, don't you guys have backup systems? A budget larger than every other intelligence agency combined and you can't afford redundant, independent computers for your mission-critical tasks?
Something in there just doesn't sound right to me.
3. The ability to process information is now more important than the ability to collect it. The article says that an NSA official downplayed the incident, saying that data was still collected -- it just wasn't processed and it'll have to be looked at later. Sounds like it wasn't too bad after all, right?
No. It means the NSA was blind, deaf and dumb, and not only that, they will likely forever be blind, deaf and dumb to events that happened during those few days.
NASA still has data from the Apollo Program which they haven't had the time or resources to look through and catalog yet. The NSA collects orders of magnitude more data than NASA, and unless they've got some incredibly advanced form of storage technology, they simply cannot store data for very long. They do not have the manpower or the resources to look through their backlog; with the scope and prevalence of digital communications today, they're drowning -- they must be drowning -- in a tidal wave of noise searching for the life-preserver of signal. It's a Herculean task.
... Add all of the above together and what do you get? I don't know. If I knew, I'd be Bruce Schneier.
It was obviously a failed attempt to crack and read the Gig of encycephered files on Kevin Mitnick's computers before the appeals court forces their rightful return to Kevin ;->
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
This is very odd--Why would the NSA let us know their machines are down, and they can't get them up? Are they trying to lull us into complacency? Disinformation is an important tactic of spyies.
Now, I recognize the importance of National Security, and the role the NSA plays in it. But frankly, with ECHELON etc, they haven't convinced me that their actions are solely devoted to defending against foreign threats. That is the law, and I think they bend or break it.
-- Robert
The NSA randomly monitors all voice and data transmissions, even those of people who have not and never will commit a crime. Like grandmothers. And scoutmasters. And Natalie Portman (moderators, please don't moderate this down because of mentioning her, it's just an example!). Yes, national security is important, and a lot of groups have agents inside this country for less than honorable reasons, but they now treat everyone like a criminal.
- Our Rights (which we really haven't had in 30 years)
- Amendment IV
- The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, [I consider my communications to be my property -- kc] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
- Where's the warrant stating my crimes? Why has the NSA intercepted and stored my communications as evidence?
- Amendment II
- A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
- Since the federal government classifies my copy of PGP as a munition (even with the recent relaxation of export regulations) it is therefore 'Arms' (a synonym of 'munitions') and any attempt to break my encrypted communications is therefore an infringement of my rights given to me by our founding fathers. Sure, Thomas Jefferson et al could not foresee the future, but they laid down the Bill of Rights in plain language to insure the rights of every American citizen for as long as this great country stands.
I propose the NSA turns it's voice and data scanning to a truly criminal group inside this country.- Facts about this relatively (less than 600 total) group as of mid-1999.
- 29 members of this group have been accused of spousal abuse
- 7 have been arrested for fraud.
- 19 have been accused of writing bad checks.
- 3 have been arrested for assault.
- 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges.
- 8 have been arrested for shoplifting.
- 84 were stopped for drunk driving, but released after they claimed immunity.
- This group, ladies and gentlemen, is The United States Congress. source: www.firecongress.com.
It doesn't matter how crooked our watchdogs are? Bullshit! It matters very much. Most of us born after 1970 have never been able to communicate electronically without a chance of interception. We are one of the most carefully watched societies on the planet, and I don't see that changing. Do you believe that you're best protected when the government treats everyone like a criminal? I don't. And I don't like living in a prison, which is all this country will amount to the farther we travel down this path.And no, this is not assfucking our country and you so eloquently put it. Our country is asking us to bend over which is not their right because their power devolves from the people, not the other way around. Put into your vernacular the can only assfuck you if you've given permission, which you seem more than willing to do.
Kristian C.
Note to the NSA's computers if you read this: Fuck off.
I'm of two minds about the NSA and related branches.
One one hand, I'm afraid of the power they wield.
On the other hand,I'm afriad of the power that can be wielded by crazy, lone individuals.
The sad fact is that it is becoming easier and easier to create weapons of mass destruction, and easier and easier to deliver them.
This is very scary, because some of these things (biological) have the capacity to wipe us out.
I'm for the perpetuation of our species first and foremost, and as a result I'd rather have big brother than not exist. (It is in big brother's best interest to perpetuate the species)
So is this good, or is it bad?
What are you more afraid of? Losing your individual rights, or fearful for our species?
I, personally, am torn.
The way CNN makes it sound is like a HD went down or something, or perhaps a race-condition of some sort or another. .. =]
Someone did raise a good question, why would the NSA admit to something like this? From the article it appears they didn't loose anything, so good for them, but I wonder how 'back-logged' they became.
I honestly can't think of a reason for them to tell, but if they did, maybe they'll release more info. Something saucy like "Don't use IDE on your servers, SCSI is your friend.."
*raises an eyebrow*
Pacific? For the most part, perhaps, but... there are still
a) foreign intelligence services operating in the US and elsewhere, whose interests do not coincide -- and "allies" generally do spy on each other. Witness the recent reports over France spying on British commercial interests, most likely passing on the industrial espionage to its own companies, for instance. Admittedly, those two have fought a number of wars, but they're *nominally* friendly now.
b) extremist groups of all types here -- from small-time groups like radical eco-terrorists who'll likely do no more than arson, B&E, trespass and the occasional attempted murder; to "religious" fundies who ignore prohibits about bloodshed, and decide to express their viewpoints through home-made bombs; and so forth. There are quite a few people with violent tendencies and a serious grudge against the Gov't, heretics, or whatever other group you care to name.
c) Some of their monitoring probably deals with overseas investigations -- people over here connected with folks over there. If, say, a drug kingpin in Miami went looking to obtain Russian surplus military hardware from a underpaid, rather disgruntled general, the NSA could be handy. Or if somebody realized he could be making quite a lot of money selling US-made automatic rifles over to the British underground...
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
How can they do this?
Shady NSA-type: "Here are the logs of encrypted material we can't decrypt (lawfully). We hope you British intelligence types can benefit from our wiretapping."
Shady British Intelligence-type: "Why, thank you! For no connected reason, here is a copy of our wiretapping data. If you find anything, let us know, k?"
Shady NSA-type: "No problem. Friends are as friends do. Aww, you look like you need a good back scratch turn around.. When I'm done, scratch my back."
Shady British Intelligence-type: "Sure. I love these Echelon backscratchers."
All the governments of the world are starting to work together to stop real privacy.. Sigh
---
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I don't want to hear any of that anti-MS flaming! Why? The NSA probably doesn't use MS for something as mission critical as intelligence processing. If Joey S. Hacker can tell that MS products aren't good enough, don't you think the professional hacks at the NSA know it too? Second, something that is expected to handle real-time amounts of sigint That's the realm of IRIX, MCOS, etc, NOT MS. Microsoft gets enough bad press on it's own merits.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Just a thought, but wouldn't it be amazing to see the combined powers of /. secure a box. I'm sure there would be a huge amount of argument about what's to be done, but that's why I love slashdot.
It would also provide a larger analogy for the security of linux if we could show exactly how the box was secured and then challenge people to break in. I know that I would benefit hugely from seeing how it would be done and it would give a lot of people a chance to flex their skills.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
Maybe someone could help me out here, but it seems to me that the NSA would be able to run whatever they wanted, probably something with support for multiple processors, and I wasn't aware of windows being able to support multiple processors well. I just thought the NSA would be able to at least come up with some native OS that only they would use since they are so secretive, and they have so many bright people.
At Bletchley Park they used to have this wonderful card index system. The only problem was that the table legs used to give out on account of the weight.
threadeds blog
BTW, why do we have to have Windows bashing in the article SUMMARIES on the FRONT PAGE? Don't journalists honor the values of letting the READERS make their OWN judgments anymore? Grow the fsck up. Linux is an O/S, not a lifestyle. (emacs, on the other hand, does appear to be a lifestyle.)
Seriously, proposing that Windows is somehow to blame for a supercomputer crashing is childish. Guess what, folks: NO ONE CARES WHETHER YOU HATE BILL GATES. It ranks right up there with pepole who make homepages that say "HI !!! I AM 8 AND I HAVE A HAMSTER AND MY FAVORITE COLOR IS ORANGE".
I could understand if it were the computer the made the universe work, but this strikes me as not news worthy.
It was more likely reported to win the bet that all of the major news networks have with one another about who can stretch Y2K reporting as late in the year as possible.
I submitted a great article about the genetic engineering of foods, and it gets rejected, and then they pick a story about a BSOD.
Oh god my head hurts.
Ignore Alien Orders
What is the definition of FUD?
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
It is used in the context of the deliberate spreading of rumours (possibly lies) in order to create confusion and uncertainty about a new and untested product, platform, idea or business. This is done with the intention of preventing the uptake of said FUD target through two means:
a) The uninformed masses may regard the FUD as true. They therefore quite naturally avoid taking any risks.
b) The informed few, even though they may see through the FUD, realise that the FUD target will be unpopular and unsuccessful because of the general misinformation and hence decide to cut their losses and avoid it themselves.
Now I'm sorry to be a pedant, but FUD is clearly a tactic that only be used against a new, unproven technology or a newcomer to the market. Hence Microsoft may be able to spread FUD about Linux.
The reverse is not true. There is no way in hell that Linux Zealots could convince the world that Microsoft products are unfeasible, unpopular or unusable. Trying to use FUD tactics against microsoft is like trying to stop an elephant with a water pistol.
What Microsoft-bashing you may observe on Slashdot may be pointless abuse, but simply by definition it cannot be regarded as FUD. I dissaprove of mindless Microsoft-bashing as much as the next guy, but we should all recognise that FUD is a completely different phenomenon entirely.
Whenever articles about the big, bad NSA pop up on ./ everyone suddenly becomes a HERO OF DEMOCRACY. Yeah. Everyone here realizes that the same constitution that they so happily enjoy quoting also allows them to get off their fat asses and run for office to change things "for the better." If people here are so right and all of the people , like me for instance, in the world are wrong then why don't you do something useful about it instead of bitch and complain about such useless shit as "echelon." With more and more nuclear capable countries coming up in this new millenium do you really think the NSA or CIA or whoever really gives a half ass shit about anybody on ./? No. And for your information the FBI is the one who works with militia groups, not the NSA. The NSA is military, not civilian and they do not carry out domestic duties unless there is a military reason to do so. And all of this FUD about the NSA, as so many people enjoy calling it, is simply humorous to read. And, no, the NSA does not hire people from this group to work there. Get a fucking clue people. I am senior in Mathematics and I applied to work at the NSA spring 99 semester. They are very serious. They don't give a fuck about people like you. I was asked POINT BLANK under a lie detector whether I ever had anti-government thoughts or tendencies or if I was ever part of a militia or militant group. And of course I said NO. I am an American and I believe in what my country stands for and what it does to protect itself from enemies foreign and domestic. Some of the people on this website should make any American sick to his stomach. You don't like it, vote.
On the other hand, this admission tells me that they think that the glitch is internal. That is, they are not worried about providing confirmation that an outside attack has worked. (Or, conversely, there -was- an attack, and they think they know how to trap whoever did it and so want to goad them into trying again) Isn't it fun analyzing press releases?
"May I ask this ? Under which circumstances is it moral for a group to do that which is not moral for a member of that group to do alone ?"
"But I believe in capital punishment under some circumstances ... with this difference. I would not ask a court; I would try, condemn, execute sentence myself, and accept full responsibility."
"A rational anarchist believes that concepts such as 'state' and 'society' and 'government' have no existence save as physically exemplified in the acts of self-responsible individuals. He believes that it is impossible to shift blame, share blame, distribute blame ... as blame, guilt and responsibility are matters taking place inside human beings and nowhere else."
"My point is that some person is responsible. Always. If H-bombs exist - and they do - some person controls them. In terms of morals there is no such thing as 'state'. Just men. Individuals. Each responsible for his own acts."
"But I will accept any rules that you feel necessary to your freedom. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; If I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am responsible for everything I do."
"What I fear most are affirmative actions of sober and well intentioned men, granting the government power to do something that appears to need doing."
"The power to tax, once conceded, has no limits; it contains until it destroys."
Robert A. Heinlein
Isn't is possible that the NSA is using the media to spread a false rumour about a crashed system to lure hackers into attempting attacks on other NSA systems?
They might be hoping that hackers will think that because one system went down, the rest are weakened as a result, and it should be easy for them to be taken down.
While a bunch of hackers are trying to attack a computer system that is really fully operational, the NSA is monitoring the types of attacks that are being mounted, and where they are originating from. This way they get useful data to make their computers even more secure, and as a bonus, they also get leads on a few more elite hackers. (That's assuming that only the elite would get far enough as to attacking an NSA computer
-Markus
Rainy days and automatic weapons always get me down.
Umm...Might be going out on a limb here, but aren't WE the "professional" hackers that the NSA recruits from and such? I mean, wouldn't it make sense that anyone nerdy enough to get hired on as an NSA nerd/hacker would HAVE TO be nerdy enough to be registered here at /.???!!!??? Just a thought.
Hey, we employ more nerds than any organization on the planet! Cut us some slack!
That single perl script they are running to parse all the world's email for words like "BOMB" and "ENCRYPTION" must of finally choked from our Echelon protest last month ;)