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Playstation 2 Launched in Japan
ozzie wrote to us about yesterday's Japanese launch of the Playstation 2. IGN has a good site devoted to the PSX2. The launch in Japan was greeted with massive fanfare, as expected. We'll have to wait here in North America for six months. Unless, of course, someone wanted to send us one. *grin* Check out some great shots of the inner workings of the machine, as well.
The most interesting thing I saw in the IGN article wasn't the info on the Playstation2 -- thats been done to death. In the article they had on PS2 accessories though, they listed the PocketStation -- which looks suspiciously like a handheld Playstation!
Has anyone heard anything about this?
Is it that hard to beleve that the SH-4 was chosen so the Sega could run WinCE? Or that if Sega had not wanted the MMU they could have had a respin of the SH-4 with no MMU (the graphics chip has more transistors if you ignore the cache and is Dreamcast specific, it is a PowerVR with a new Bus and a few other small tweeks)? The sound chip is a ARM7 plus DSP extensions and a few I/O ports (and I assume DACs).
We have the same facts. Nobody said it has an MMU. Nobody said it didn't. It is in a market where MMUs normally arn't. It was baised on a CPU that has one (but embeded MIPS CPUs have skiped them before). Sony claims they are going for a wider market.
We merely disagree on whether Sony did "the right thing" and put a MMU in it. Personally I think it would be nice if it had one. I also think odds are aginst it.
But I havn't seen anything about a MMU on the PSX2. If it doesn't have one you won't get a normal Linux to run on it. You will need to port uLinux or whatever the Linux varient that doesn't have memory protection, and has either a relocator, or requires PIC code.
Doing that will substantally reduce the stability of Linux (or any OS), as errors in one program can easally damage another program.
Personally I think it is very possable that Sony will have left an MMU out. MMUs are of modest complexity, and tend to add a big chunk of work right in the LOAD/STORE pipeline where modern CPUs are striving for minimal extra cruft to reduce memory latency. They arn't needed in a game machine. They arn't needed in a DVD player. They arn't needed anywhere there is only one task going on and you can basically reboot into the next task. It is possable they were farsighted enough to decide that if they want to be a "PC killer" a MMU could have been useful, but I wouldn't bet any money on it.
P.S. the Dreamcast has an MMU because WinCE wants a MMU, and Sega wanted WinCE, in case it took off. That's why it can run a relitavly normal NetBSD or Linux port (I don't know of a Linux port, there was a BSD port of some sort).
yes, but PlayStation has only one use -- playing games. PC stands for Personal Computer and there is a reason for that.
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
You may want to check out www.gamespot.com and ps2.ign.com probably by Tuesday/Wednesday time frame for detailed reviews on hardware and some of the launch titles.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Funny you should mention Linux in regards to PlayStation 2. That's because the developer's machine for PS2 games RUNS on Linux--Sony admitted this when they unveiled the PS2 hardware last September.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Think about it.
Sony has a near-hammerlock on the US market for console videogames. Given that Sony has been hyping PlayStation2 since May 1999 and the fact that Sony did manage to sell 1 million PS2's in Japan on its first day of sale, imagine what the pent-up demand will be for the North American version when that comes out this fall (most likely 9/9/2000).
I am absolutely serious about my prediction. Sony won't need to do much in the way of PR for PlayStation2, because all the videogame magazines and videogame news web sites will hype PS2 like crazy anyway.
Remember, Sega sold 500,000 Dreamcast units in the first week of sales alone, not a mean feat considering how much smaller market share they have versus Sony. (Of course, it helped that when Dreamcast shipped in the USA they already had several "kill app" titles shipping: Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur, NFL2K, and Power Stone.)
I will not be surprised that Sony will have five million PS2's in the USA for sale on the North American release date, if only from the inertia of the huge number of PSX owners who want to get the latest and greatest.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Given the penchant for Americans to do things at the "stroke of midnight" in terms of sales of new items, I can guarantee that the same Electronics Boutique that was mobbed with people waiting for the Dreamcast on 9/9/1999 will be repeated on 9/9/2000, only writ four times as large, as I mentioned in my original message.
Remember, Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA), the division of Sony that head USA operations for PlayStation, is based in Foster City, CA. This means that I expect many Sony upper-management people--including Ken Kutaragi (sp?), who heads SCEA--to be there at the unveiling party at Electronics Boutique I mentioned originally in force. Sony may want to seriously consider blocking off the corner of Stevens Creek Boulevard and San Tomas Expressway to create a block party atmosphere for the unveiling.
It's either that or use the wide-open convention space at the Santa Clara or San Jose Convention Centers.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
I do believe you are exposing a real danger that's hidden in the way big corporations do business nowadays...
BUT:
Is this really different from Intel changing processor slots every 6 months, so that I have to buy another motherboard for no practical purpose?
Is this really different from proposed "display encryption", or from they Processor ID codes?
Is this different from many Microsoft strategies, where your only freedom is when, in a 6 month window, you'll upgrade your system before it becomes incompatible with the new MS software? Or with their nice little strategy to put out of market every worthwhile technology they don't control?
What is the difference from having to obtain a license from Sony, or being instantly put out of business by a free integrated Internet Browser, a free integrated Streaming Media Player, or a very cheap microprocessor- or chipset-integrated 3D video board?
Hopefully, Sony will steal some of their market share, propelling competition and hopefully better practices. Will they be as nasty as the US companies behind DMCA, UCITA, the DeCSS affair? I don't know, but IF (and it's a big if) they know for themselves, they should also know why the original playstation sold 70 millions unit, and why the PS1 sales graph is strikingly similar to the CD-Writers sales graph....
Beside this kind of reasoning, there's another advantage I do see in the PS2: as many said here, PS2 WILL be a simpler instrument to use, allowing many more people to access internet and its contents. It will steal the control over the web from MS, and from the other nice people (AOL, Realnetworks...) that NOW are controlling it, and are the only means for the vast majority of people to access the net: if you're not a 'computer geek' of some sort, you are stuck with Windows. Or maybe, if you have more money, with a Mac.
The freedom you have with linux is only for you, me, and other computer skilled people. It do cost you a little fortune, in hardware if you want to stay 'on the edge', and in time you spend to learn and follow the OS. This does not compare to a $350 machine that allows many more people to buy it (it's cheaper) and to use it (it's simpler).
Moreover, nothing and noone can tell NOW if tomorrow linux will be able to run on the PS2: if Sony wants to use it as a "digital content access tool", I believe they'll want a flexible and stable OS on it, and I bet that inside Emotion Engine there _is_ an MMU.
Ciao,
Rob!
AniToolBox! An Open Source animation program!
How many Japanese students are going to find themselves with much worse grade averages this semester :)
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Anything that's been released in Japan other than the fifteen listed elsewhere in this thread, pretty much.
From the reports I've seen so far, here are a few of the big names:
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Yes it is. You sir you are the one that wants to destroy freedom you are the danger not Sony. Free Trade is the backbone of a free society by limiting it you are limiting MY freedom.
Let's see, could you point to where exactly I said I wanted to ban or forbid the PS2?
Get rid of the copyright laws that Sony needs to pull this shit off an I will stop whining right now. I don't want to ban anything, but how much are you willing to bet against that Sony will want to ban the first program that cracks the PS2s copyprotection schemes? (please make it a large amout of money and contact me asap).
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We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
Hmmm... I wonder if the NDA's would ever allow Linux to be ported to the PS2. Meanwhile, if it ever does get ported, I can think of making it a compute node on my network here and using it to render images 24 hours a day. The 24 hours, of course, would be reduced in practice due to the need to use it for 4 hours a day for its original purpose. ;)
Geeky modern art T-shirts
It is really shitty that PSX2 is not going to be compatible with all PSX-1 games as initially thought. Stupid move on Sony's part.
Actually, it's not Sony's fault. The PS2 is backwards compatible with all games coded to Sony spec. The only one's that don't work are one's that did their own thing instead of coding it like it was supposed to be. And those kind of games are a very very small minority, so it's almost like a moot point.
Try getting someone who knows what they are doing to set the emulator up for you.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
No, this is more akin to DOS with libraries that directly access every piece of hardware and support acceleration. What exactly is wrong with that?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Yes, you are a victim. You are a victim because you are being played as pawn in Sony's game for a future where they and their kin control the very freedom and integrity of your online existence. You are a victim because you are mindlessly giving up freedoms in cyberspace which you would not have dreamed for a second of compromising in the world which you are used to.
Does anyone else see the irony in this statement?
What are you proposing? that Sony not be allowed to sell these things? wouldn't the be an attack on freedom.
No one is forcing anyone to buy it no one is forcing you to use it. That is what freedom is all about.
This is not about being anti-capitalistic..
Yes it is. You sir you are the one that wants to destroy freedom you are the danger not Sony. Free Trade is the backbone of a free society by limiting it you are limiting MY freedom.
This is about a cancer to capitalist society that has gone to far, and that is threatening the very freedom that capitalism exists ONLY to support
Let me remind you the capitalism is an economic issue not a social one. By limiting trade you would be taking away MY fredom.
It is a shame that people are not yet aware enough of the importance of electronic freedom to realize that they MUST reject the intrusion of electronics into their homes that is serving somebody else's agenda rather than theirs.
Have you lost your mind. People want this thing it is not an intrusion. You sir you are trying to intrude into my home by telling me not to buy something. You have no right!!!
I wonder if someone will have a PSX2 emulator out before the hardware hits the USA...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
The report mentions that one of the possible reasons is because of the implementation of Sony's unique encryption technology, called Magic Gate, onto the PS2 memory card. This is the first time a game console has been given such prohibition,...
I think this gets a couple of points across:
Sony is very serious about copy protection, as befits their status as big-shot members of RIAA;
Sony is very serious about maintaining their marketing plan, with different introduction dates, and probably different prices, for different regions. Again, this is like the region coding in the DVD's.
It seems that the reason that this is cheap is that Sony plans to make their profit on the consumables, such as games, internet access, and so on. They haven't magically made the hardware cheaper, I suspect; they're willing to sell this very restrictive hardware at a loss so that they'll have you over a barrel. It's a pity, really, since this seems to be a really nifty little thing, which could make a great successor to the spirit of the old Commodore 64.
See what I've been reading.
COMPATIBILITY UPDATE ( http://www.sony-otaku.com/news/0200/021700/021700a .html):
Sony's Japanese site tested fifteen Playstation games on the Playstation 2 in order to see exactly what is flawed with the PS2's backwards compatibility. Sony picked a lot of Japan-only titles, but some notable (and random) flaws include the following:
In some titles after loading from the memory card the previous screen's image remains on the screen, overlaying the entire game.
Some titles, like Gradius Deluxe Pack, experience major slowdown throughout the entire title.
After exiting a menu or a part of a game, some sounds might continue playing.
In one RPG, the dungeon maps would not display on screen.
In Wing Commander III, the animation starts looping until an error message appears on the screen and the game freezes.
Gallop Racer, a very popular Japanese title from Tecmo, doesn't display many screens including the race times after an event.
In some strategy titles the wrong menus come up, or a menu will pop up at a random time in mid-battle.
In some games sound effects and background music won't even play at all.
Some repeat offenses included the image overlay problems, memory card bugs, and general sound screwups. If this is just a random sample of fifteen titles, imagine what will happen with the over 2600 other titles out there.
Here's a list of 15 games which do not work properly on PS2 ( http://ps2.ign.com/news/15350.html ):
Not Treasure Hunter
Gradius Deluxe Pack
Aidoru Promotion -Suzuki Yumie
Toua Plan Shooting Battle
Oukyuu No Hihou: Tension
Wing Commander III
Gallop Racer
Ongaku Tsukuuru: Kanadeeru 2
Monster Farm
Dragon Beat
Susume! Kaizoku
Tsuiridou Keiryu Kohen
Virtua Pachinko V
Virtua Pachinko EX
Konya Mo Senryobako! 2000
From IGN PSX2 FAQ's ( http://ps2.ign.com/news/14132.html ):
Will it be backward compatible with all older PlayStation games?
Yes, the PlayStation 2 will be able to play original PlayStation games. Because the system's I/O (input/output) processor is essentially the core (main processor) of the original PlayStation, the system will use this processor to insure backward compatibility with all existing PlayStation games. Sony will most likely continue to institute the territorial lockout to make sure that only US PlayStation 2s play original US PlayStation games.
Answers to questions as to whether or not the PlayStation 2 will "enhance" original games with effects like a high-resolution mode and texture filtering has been answered. Sony has said that the system will not enhance PlayStation games, but rather play them in their original look, speed and context.
I wish I had a complete list, but I do not. I looked on Sony's Playstation website and could find no mention of incompatibility. The available information seems intentionally ambiguous when Sony could just test all the games and let us know. I wonder why Sony does not let us know?
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He lives in a world where those who do not run the client software of the omnipresent meme are unacceptable.
Consumers don't HAVE to buy into it... but they will. They look for the largest spec list and most buzzwords for the dollar. If it's a quick, short-term investment, all the better, especially if it puts them ahead of their neighbors (or classmates).
As I understand it, the max theoretical limit for the Playstation 2 is around 75 million polygons per second. However, this would be without any texturing, shading, or other necessary things like AI or physics modeling. The realistic maximum limit for the PS2 during gameplay is said to be 20 million polygons per second.
So, at what time will PC technology surpass the Sony box? Considering the imminent arrival of 1 GHz Athlons, plus the hardware T & L of video cards like the GeForce, will a PC system be able to match the PS2 by the time of the North American launch date? Or will the I/O limitations of the PC cripple it in comparison to the PS2?
1) False.
2) False, its actually very good, at least the equal of any software only solution for the PC.
3) Only backwards compatible with ones written exactly to spec (and thats surprisingly few). If you've seen bleem! the psx emulator youll know the compatibility problems it has due to this very reason.
4) The buttons in the new ones are capable of detecting levels of pressure applied to them. but it can use the old models, as well as usb ones.
5) It was until some recent law changes. So was the P3-700 and above though so its not a big deal.
According to ps2.ign.com, there are three types of video connectors available for PlayStation2: composite video (RCA jack), S-video, and component video. I expect Sony to release an accessory that will allow connection to a variable-frequency VGA monitor fairly soon.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
From what I saw on ps2.ign.com, it appears that the Japanese were extremely eager to get their hands on the PlayStation 2. Mostly because Sony has been hyping it since May 1999.
However, the long lines for the Japanese launch of the PlayStation 2 may be totally nothing versus the North American launch, most likely pencilled in for September 9, 2000, the fifth anniversary of the US launch of the original PlayStation (and the first anniversary of the launch of Dreamcast). Can you imagine lines similar to the lines before Star Wars Episode I was released in front of the majority of the Babbages, Electonics Boutique, FAO Shwarz, KayBee Toys and Toys'R Us stores in the USA? Sony may have to manufacture around five million PlayStation 2 machines just to meet the demand for pre-orders and the first few days of sales here!
I remember the Dreamcast launch last year on 9/9/1999 at the Electronics Boutique in San Jose, CA next to the Barnes & Noble bookstore--it was an absolute riot scene out there. Now writ that larger by a factor of four and that will be the scene before the release of the PlayStation 2 in North America (shudder). If I were Sony I would seriously consider renting out either the San Jose Convention Center or Santa Clara Convention Center on the launch date for a big show unveiling the machine and allow the retailers to sell PlayStation 2 consoles and software there just to prevent riot scenes in the retail stores (at least in the San Francisco Bay Area), especially since 9/9/2000 falls on a Saturday.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
And a whopping one day after release, eBay has about 10 of these wonderful machines available from anywhere between $500 and $1100. Not to shabby if you have the cash.
æeee!
Well, that is true - but remember that Sony (and even retailers) lose cash on every system sold. VCRs and CD-Roms are close to commodity levels in availablity, number of manufacturers, and price. The PlayStation 2 is proprietary Sony hardware that can only play proprietary Sony games - just like any other console. Sony makes their cash in the buisness from selling the games, which have an extremely high markup and the liscences to produce games on their proprietary hardware.
Well, congratulations. I work for a major video game (PC, console, and handheld) retailer, and I answer hundreds of people's questions a week who need something that'll do everything for them too. Not "a box just like [the PS2]", but something that'll provide them with everything they need. They too are perplexed by anything more complex than a fly swatter, but they buy PC's. I see the PS2 and future consoles (with the exception of the Dreamcast if Sega ever releases the spec on the GD-Rom format) as the primary component in the corporate scheme to use us for as much cash as possible - with little regard for the freedom of information or thought.
The unsophisticated consumer-level users can still buy their PlayStations and Nintindo 64s and bow down to their corporate masters and laugh at the geeks with their complex PC's.... and they will.
It's the dark side, alright - but it's actually a little more attactive than the real "dark side".
So, I am a consumer who wants access to the Internet for the purposes of playing cutting-edge massively-multiplayer games, chatting, checking my e-mail, browsing the web, and engaging in on-line forums. I buy a box like the PS2 which does all of these things conveniently, cheaply, and easily, and this box _isn't_ for me, or consumers like me? I am a victim of Sony and other companies who make these non-consumer products?
Please, victimize me more!
Yes, you are a victim. You are a victim because you are being played as pawn in Sony's game for a future where they and their kin control the very freedom and integrity of your online existance. You are a victim because you are mindlessly giving up freedoms in cyberspace which you would not have dreamed for a second of compromising in the world which you are used to.
Indeed there are many people who need a simpler device than a PC for their Internet access, and those people should have such a device. But this is not what the PS2 is about, the PS2 is about being the troyan horse into peoples homes that Sony needs to make sure that it can provide customers with information without granting them freedom. It is about giving the mega-corps back the power that the Internet and the PC has threatened, a hundred times over. Read between the lines of the corporate doublespeak of Sony's talk of a "platform for digital content delivery", and this is exactly you will see.
This is not about being anti-capitalistic, or luddite, or not wanting to give newbies a chance to go online. This is about a cancer to capitalist society that has gone to far, and that is threatening the very freedom that capitalism exists ONLY to support. This is about the DMCA, the UCITA, the arrest of sixteen year old for nothing but protecting fair use, and the continued growth of corporations abusing laws meant to encourage "creative effort" to be parasites to this very process in every way.
It is a shame that people are not yet aware enough of the importance of electronic freedom to realize that they MUST reject the intrusion of electronics into their homes that is serving somebody else's agenda rather than theirs.
It is a shame, but it is understandable.
It is not understandable that people like you defend this process.
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We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
1. no idea, but I doubt it. Sony probally just doens't want you opening the box since it'll void the warrenty.
2. From dailyradar.com, they said it looks great and all, just that controlling a movie with a controller sucks. That was their major grip.
3. Backward compaticble with all PSX games coded to Sony spec, and can improve some of them. Not really noticable though from the screenshots I've seen.
4. Yes, all PSX peripharls work, but the PS2 comes with controllers that look almost exactly like the Dual Shock, only all the buttons on it are analog and not digital.
5. No idea, but I'm guessing it was just some marketing hype by Sony to make it sound more impressive. I think the deal on that was it was a age-old law that classified it as a supercomputer, when it would classify almost every computer made today as a super computer.
Hey, now that its out, has Sony released any info about the OS, (or any PS2 developers like to comment about it?) It seems to me that they did the right thing and stayed with their propriotory, lightweight OS, but what stuff have the put in to facilitate internet transfers, DVD playback, and web-browsing? Does this even have memory protection? While on the topic of OS, this is the kind of OS people dream about writing too. No bloated OS services to get in your way, direct access to every piece of hardware, and no other programs stealing your compute time, no worrying about swap file issues, tweeking the code perfectly to keep the pipes flowing, and no worrying about configuring perhiprals.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Could someone shed some light on a few PS 2 myths that I've heard?
1. The PS 2 is hemetically sealed and opening it will casue various chips to damage themselves.
2. The PS 2 DVD playback is actually not very good - even your average joe will not be impressed by the quality.
3. It is backward compatible with most PS1 games and actually enhances them (crisper graphics faster frame rate).
4. It is backwards compatible with PS1 periphrals, but the pads are somehow improved.
5. The PS 2 is calssified as a supercomputer.
Cheers.
Wasn't there just an article about the Playstation 2 being banned for export from Japan?
o rt/index.html
:). If someone with knowledge of the language could confirm that there's an actual announcement there, it would be much appreciated.
This is correct. Tom's Hardware had a link to this article about it:
http://headline.gamespot.com/news/00_03/01_vg_imp
Digging through Sony's pages, I can't find anything about this in the North American page. The Japanese pages, naturally, I can't read
URL for the Japanese playstation pages is:
http://www.scei.co.jp/index-n.html
...feel strangely like viewing a page of celebrity nudes? If only they had a half-dozen popups which redirect you to pages like "Emotion Engine acid-strip show!", "two female connectors coupled!", and "Brazilian Plug Pornography!"... (sigh)
Like everyone here, I can't help but drool over the technical specs to this machine, and what Sony has managed to squeeze into the price. It is obviously a damn fine piece of technology, and I salute Sony's developers for this achievement.
But, on the other hand, there is a side to this that I can't help worrying about, and choices made for which I do not salute Sony (aka a leading member of both the RIAA and MPAA). These machines are the most propietary of the proprietary, and include copyprotection schemes that make CSS look childish. And Sony's goal with the PS2 is not just to push another console onto the market, but to start chipping into the things which PCs are used for today, making there machines the standard way to access the Internet.
The PS2 is not a machine designed as an instrument for the consumer, it is designed as an instrument for Sony to drive consumers into buying more games, more movies, and more of whatever other services they plan to offer. Inviting a PS2 into your living room is not buying a piece of electronics to serve _your_ agenda, it is opening the door to a piece of robotics maticulously designed to use you, granting you as little freedom as possible ("lets see, what Sony licensed proprietary title shall we play today") in the process.
The personal computer will always be more than just a piece of electronics, because it is a tool designed for you, and only for you. The PC is a statement of integrity and freedom. It serves your agenda, when you want it to, and, with a little knowledge, in whatever way you want it to. It is the PC that povided the basis for the developement of Linux, and it is freedom of PC usage that has shaped most of our ideas about electronic freedom.
The bad things that Microsoft do with their control of the PC desktop are nothing compared to the bad things that companies like Sony will do if the PC is replaced by closed machines like the PS2 as the primary tool for accessing the Internet. Do you think there will ever be a Napster client for the PS2? Or an SDMI-free mp3 player? Or the ability to save and store information on your terms?
The proliferation of the PS2 is a further step into a future where corporations control every aspect of your electronic life. A world where the machines that should be our tools are instead turned against us, meant only to ensure the continued cashflow toward existing capital, where large money will not hesitate to fuck you over at any point.
Oh happy day!
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We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.