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Mozilla Milestone 15
[TWD]insomnia writes "Mozilla M15 is out on their FTP site. It seems already a bit faster than M14 and Netscape 6 PR1. " Not in woody yet (blatant hint ;)
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I see a better way then. Have what it opens to be fully configurable (you choose default: homepage, blankpage, or currentpage), but also allow the new window to inherit the history one step behind (at your discretion [this is configurable too]). Best of both worlds. Any other reasons?
> why don't they make the GUI skinnable?
I believe what you're after is ChromeZone.
Mozilla is much more than just skinnable. Read up on XUL for more information.
It would help the Mozilla team find the cause of the bug (they can't reproduce it on their setup) if you could add additional information about the setup of your machine (i.e. what graphics cards you have installed, etc) - also mention that you're using M15 rather than a nightly build.
The link for the bug is http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_ bug.cgi?id=36239 please register a bugzilla account and add your comments.
--
Make use of your spare CPU time!
cool, xmlterm is finally included. xmlterm seems like a really neat project, check it out at http://www.xmlterm.org/. i wish there was a way to build it though without having to build the whole mozilla source tree. rpms are available at the website, but they didn't work too well with m14. this build seems to have a good bit of functionality though. keep up the good work.
Whine whine, bitch bitch and bitch. Bitch bitch, whine whine, bitch.
Moan and piss. Piss and moan.
Bitch and complain and whine. I want my money back. Why don't you just use IE5 like a normal person you retard? Freak! (Points finger and makes Body Snatchers alert sound.)
What's taking so long? Complain. Moan and whine. Why doesn't ActiveX work? Piss and bitch.
Why can't I convince you all to just use IE5? It really really is better! Really.
Goddammit just use IE5! I told you to use IE5! You assholes! Use IE5!
Bitch bitch, moan and complain.
Oops. Sorry I have to stop now. I just installed a bugfix to IE5 and I have to reboot. Don't you just love to reboot? I do. I gives me time to run to the kitchen and grab a snack.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
I'd cringe if my browser went to the same page when I open a new window. 99% of the times I open a new window to go somewhere else while leaving the other page open; I have netscape configured not to load anything initially, so I get a new *empty* window where I can type or paste an URL or go to a bookmark. if your "home portal" takes your precious time, turn the damn thing off! you can always click on "home" when you want to go there.
IIRC from the last thread when NS PR1 came out it was stated that DHTML is different because in Mozilla it is based strictly on the W3C standard while NS 4.x and IE have made their proprietary extentions and only have part of the DHTML standard supported. Mozilla is more standards compliant, on all fronts, but this breaks backwards compatability on many pages, the upside is that once they are coded around the actual standard (who woulda' thunk?) this kind of thing won't happen again.
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
It's a _big_ improvement over M14 - sidebar MUCH improved, scrolling is smoother, disk cache works, and - my favorite - they added XMLTerm, a terminal emulator in XML. It's a bit slow, but boy, is it fun.
"If ignorance is bliss, may I never be happy.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
The mozilla port to SGI is still very broken (and has been for more than six months since the SGI maintainer took off). That's disappointing since my box at work is an O2. But get this: I just downloaded the Linux M15 and ran it on a linux box displayed remotely on my SGI. Mozilla remote is FASTER than Netscape 4.7 running locally. Sheesh. Mozilla seems very nice despite the minor cosmetic bugs. If the SGI port worked minimally, I would join in the hacking effort.
It appears that the main problems with the SGI port are in the assembly code in the xpcom module. That, of course, is the heart of the port. I've seen posts on the Mozilla newsgroups from SGI management saying that they would like to make the SGI mozilla port a priority, but it seems that hasn't happened. Personally, I'm undecided about whether I'd rather see SGI programmers working on Netscape or on XFS for Linux, etc. I'm probably going to switching to a Linux box in the near future anyway. So the big question is whether less common boxes like SGIs will eventually join the future of software like Mozilla or if they will become like the Amiga or the NeXT: Loved by those who like their unique software but loathed by those who have gotten used to software on other boxes.
Can someone please tell me how to make a GNOME launcher for Mozilla?
/path/to/mozilla/package && ./run-mozilla.sh
Easy - create a shell script that contains:
#!/bin/bash
cd
Now point the gnome launcher to the shell script (don't forget to "chmod +x" the shell script first)
I personally _hate_ how IE goes to the current page when you open up a new window. What if you currently happen to be on the result page of submitting an credit card order or something? There are some sites, such as moviefone.com, which will sit there for up to 2 minutes waiting to contact the theater you're buying a ticket for and finally will add to the page that the order has been finalized. While presumably an already loaded result page will simply be passed over to the new window without reloading, what would happen in the case of pages similar to this moviefone.com page where the page is not yet complete? I know it's possible for this to work safely, but I don't necessarily trust that it will be implement correctly, and I don't really see the point. Why would you want two copies of the same page, anyway? Opening links in a new window performs this function better.
Then again, I hate when a web browser goes to any page at all by default. I've always used "start with a blank page" in Netscape and Mozilla. I'm a bit annoyed when programs do things for me automatically that usually aren't correct. For the same reason, I don't like automatic name completion.
If anything, these should be configurable, _easily_ (yeah, yeah, "go edit the source you lazy ass!").
hey, just because mozilla isn't stable enough to handle all those popups while you're looking for porn doesn't mean all the rest of us need to hear it!
(it's funny - laugh. please. no, not the "troll" moderation. PLEASE!)
-- Imagine how much more advanced our technology would be if we had eight fingers per hand.
4. Middle-click on a link does not yet open a new window. I use that extensively in NS 4.x. Where is it?
Works for me. And I remember looking at the bug list, and that they had fixed that "bug".
2. When pressing BACK, it ALWAYS reloads the previous page from the network. That's ridiculous, and slow. Yes, I do have cache turned on and a directory set.
They're working on it right now. Sounds like this bug.
As for the rest of your problems, some of them I've seen bug reports on, but some I haven't. But hte best thing for anyone with problems to do is to go to bugzilla.mozilla.org and report the bug there. Complaining on Slashdot will get you nothing, even if it does feel good to vent.
Oh, and I"ve been using "Mozilla" (Netscape 5 Beta) as my main browser ever since N5 was released. That version was the first one that had fewer crashes than Netscape 4.7, so I finally switched over.
and its a /beta/. people installing this who are not prepared for nigh on anything to happen to their systems DESERVE WHAT THEY GET.
I've lost a 2 year mailbox to mozilla, but I'm an active developer so I don't care, I know that if we don't test and fix bugs, we get nowhere - we may as well give up and go home.
remember the IE4 betas? they were pieces of shit. One of them nearly took down my system. Did people claim MS was doomed and that their final release would suck?
MS did something dramatic with IE4 - even the final version of that browser wasn't perfect, but they'd built themselves a solid platform for ease of upgrade in future versions (5.0, 5.5 - both of which were very stable in beta). Mozilla and Netscape are at the IE4 stage - do something incredibly different.
You're right, some of the other application packages available that use Mozilla XPToolkit technology are faster (e.g. Aphrodite, Sullivan etc) because their style sheets are significantly simpler.
One of the problems with the current skin is that it is huge, style wise - many rules for the different components of the UI (grey menubar menus, blue personal toolbar menus, different types of buttons etc), all of which are read into one large soup of style rules, which must be traversed (looking for matches) when resolving style for elements as the content is built (or is changed). This style resolution is a contributor to some of the UI sluggishness you may have seen.
Once the foundations of skinnability are in place (which is one of my current tasks), we will work to produce a simpler skin that should see some subtle but noticable performance improvements!
Thanks,
Ben Goodger
mozilla.org UI lead
--
The shareholder is always right.
Not really. It's intended to display to the spec (just like any other browser) but still messes up quite often. Most of www.gmx.de gets cut off, articles linked to from slashdot get jumbled, etc. Yes, it's open source, so these bugs get fixed in a reasonable amount of time, but mozilla isn't anywhere near being able to claim standards compliance.
Following the specs to the letter isn't such a great idea anyway, even when they're not contradicting each other and themselves. According to Ian Hickson, image alt text is supposed to be displayed as normal text, with nothing distinguishing it from page text, unless the page specifies how broken images are supposed to be displayed. And, oh, the spec for how to say how broken images are displayed will be in the NEXT version of CSS for website developers who don't want to use mozilla-specific code. Very few webpages with broken or slashdotted images look good in mozilla as a result, and layout is completely messed up even when width= and height= are specified.
It's like one dynamic living document... I love it.
Yeah, it's cool, as long as you have a dual 1Ghz box. (I'm sure it will start getting faster quickly once the features solidify a little more.)
It's a platform, not a program.
So why does the security still suck? (see my sig)
--
The shareholder is always right.
PIII 450 128M Voodoo3AGP running (woefully) Win98.
About the ball:
Mozilla M15 (from:ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/r eleases/m15/) Build 2000041805 a 5339K download without the talkback client.
Impressions:
[1] Downloading the program is fast. Getting a browser, mail and news in under 6M (1254 files), is impressive.
[2] click Mozilla.exe --> open browser == 11 seconds. Cool.
[3] Moving my mouse along the pull down menus, considerable lag when I hover over bookmarks (prolly from the 985 bookmarks:).
[4] Pulled down QA and loded the smoke tests. all OK.
[5] Loaded the aphrodite skin. The GO button is a few pixels to low on the tool bar but, It all works well.
[6] Loaded the Sullivan skin. The back ground color looks like something changed. M15 has a darker grey than the background on the buttons.
[7] Loaded xml.com Alert: "the connection was refused when attempting to contact adforce.imgis.com". There's a dialog for every time an image doesn't load. had to press OK 8 times.
[8] Fast...ohmygod fast. Loaded the Jargon file v4.2.0 Jargon.html file from my local drive (2.16M) and saw it on the screen in less than 2 seconds!
[9] Clean interface, standards compliant, and ohmygod fast.
[10] My best regards to the entire Mozilla team and to all that help them with this wonderfull platform. Your quality work shows in all that you do. To those of you who have been waiting for a working browser before you start your mozilla development project . . .come and get it! !
___
TechWeb has a review of Netscape 6, preview 1. It's not very flattering. Some quotes:
"Netscape 6 PR1 is far from ready for prime time, however. It's not even close-- yet."
"If things remain the same, AOL might succeed at doing to Netscape Navigator and the ever-popular Lizard (Mozilla) what Microsoft (stock: MSFT) and its Internet Explorer were never able to do -- kill it."
Harsh words -- but in line with many people's experiences that have posted here on Slashdot in the past.
It will be interesting to see if they can get the problems worked out and make it a competitive browser.
--
different chromes are on http://www.mozillazine.org/chromezone
the command-line switch you seek is
./mozilla -chrome chrome:///content
chrome support is a bit technical right now, but I think the prefs dialong will have a GUI picker in the near future. In the meantime there are directions for the interested in the chromezone.
The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
I have a fast mirror site here: ftp://ftp.c-60.org/pub/mozilla/
I am playing with Linux nightly build. It is newer and buggier than M15, which is likely rolled off into another line a week or two before.
The speed is definately picking up... I remember waiting for form pulldowns to draw... It's very close to the same league as NS4.7, and it's doing a SHITLOAD more.
The KILLER APP is the UI overhaul themes... I played with a few last night... If you DONT LIKE MOZILLA NOW, WAIT FOR THE NEW THEMES... A lot of the sluggishness is due to the sidebars and the moving crap and shit... Stuff like the ANDREW theme or whatever the fuck it's called makes things SIGNIFICANTLY faster...
I know because i tried them. =P
It displays most pages right.
It never knows when to stop moving the throbber.
And if you jack up the DPI setting in preferences, you can actually read the fonts.
No java in the nightlies, oh well.
It works much better than before, has replaced NS4.7 for me, remembers preferences well, behaves well, and is ACTUALLY GETTING FASTER... I can see what this will become and I seriously like it.
(faster as in, it is usable on my 400/128 assuming the X server is given a relatively high priority)
Oh yeah, the little turquoise pulldown next to the address bar with the down arrow is really damn sweet... mozilla has POTENTIAL... I like it.
-troll taker
I believe the code for automatic address-completion went in a couple days ago. It's probably not turned on or something.
Mozzy has password remembering already set up. It works okay. The mailer is radically better than previously. Javascript works. Most webpages work pretty well.
It will be better at web-FTP than IE5 for windows, which was the MOST IRRITATING thing I have ever seen. (it turned it into a file folder, but drag and drop didn't work, so you needed to Right Click, Copy To Folder, then do some GODFORSAKEN SHIT to get it to save... that option went off REAL FAST)
Mozilla knows how to download shit and save and open local files now.
Mozzy starts up without dying now. The initial load is very sluggish, like everything else. If it is in cache, it starts up very very quickly.
The biggest gripe is focus issues... They're still fruity and it is far too easy for focus to go into the void, leaving you with a useless shell.
The extras and the obscene flexibility of the UI definition language will make this a seriously cool thing... If you can't imagine how cool something this flexible will be, then that's sad.
It's like one dynamic living document... I love it.
So the colors suck. Deal. You can change them later. A theme manager will likely be set up in a few more months..
It displays shit correctly, to the spec... There are workarounds for shitty HTML like slashdots...
It remembers your homepage, it remembers all sorts of shit now. Except that goddamn default toolbar. Oh well.
Most of what sucks about mozilla is being fixed or can be changed by you... That's what i like about it. And it is free after all.
And stop bitching about the extra features... The editor and the mail program and all that shit are basically hyper-dynamic webpages. The size is probably going to be like 10MB compressed for EVERYTHING that mozzy does when it gets to netscape release... that includes all SORTS of shit plus new java.
/me shrugs... It's really not that bad folks. And it will continue to get better as long as AOL keeps dumping enormous amounts of money into the project.... And we all start learning how to design better (faster/more effective) user interfaces for mozilla faster...
It's a platform, not a program.
-troll taker
Look at the Mozilla dinosaur icon -- it looks identical to Gojira (aka Godzilla). THIS IS PLAGIARISM. Gojira (aka Godzilla) existed DECADES before the Internet was ever created, let alone the Mozilla project. And don't tell me this is just a coincidence; the name "Mozilla" is obviously intended to sound like "Godzilla". Copyright and trademark law prevents the use of similar names and logos when they are likely to confuse consumers. Well, if I was a consumer, I'd be damned confused -- a browser named "Mozilla" with a dinosaur mascot sure sounds like it's endorsed by Tojo, Inc. This is not true.
Why this has not been acted on is a mystery to me. The "Mozilla" dinosaur clearly violates Tojo, Inc's copyright on Gojira (aka Godzilla. C'mon, guys, how about choosing something a little more original -- like, say, a ferret? How many ferrets out there do you see as corporate mascots? Huh?
This post will act as an unofficial petition to the Mozilla developers to select a new mascot that does not resemble Gojira (aka Godzilla). Simply reply to this message if you want to add your name to the list.
Yu Suzuki
Yu Suzuki
Deamcast. It's thinking.