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Mozilla Milestone 15
[TWD]insomnia writes "Mozilla M15 is out on their FTP site. It seems already a bit faster than M14 and Netscape 6 PR1. " Not in woody yet (blatant hint ;)
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It's the codename for the unstable version of Debian.
It's interesting to note that the site you refer to is associated with Winmag.com. So, they probably do have a pro-microsoft bias (just like I'm biased against MS). Although the article does seem to take a fair tone.
Anyway, I agree. Prerelease software is not ready for prime time. Joe Idiot PC-owner should not be downloading and using this version. That's exactly what Netscape's site told me before I downloaded it. I don't think that it's fair to compare a product which is in the first of several beta releases with a final release. Just because there are bugs in the beta version doesn't mean that Mozilla is doomed. It doesn't mean that it will be the Next Big Thing, but I wouldn't panic either. My experience with Mozilla is that each milestone is much more stable and usable than the preceeding one. I am very confident that the Mozilla folks will release a final, stable product. Whether or not that product will be what I want (i.e. a good web browser) or something else (a tool for developing cross platform UIs in JS and XML) remains to be seen. Personally, I'd find it pretty ironic if Mozilla's greatest contribution was XUL instead of the browser itself. And that may very well be the case. We shouldn't have to wait long to see how the browser turns out, but seeing if XUL amounts to anything outside of Mozilla may have to wait a bit longer.
-Doug
I see a better way then. Have what it opens to be fully configurable (you choose default: homepage, blankpage, or currentpage), but also allow the new window to inherit the history one step behind (at your discretion [this is configurable too]). Best of both worlds. Any other reasons?
Surfing around relentlessly. Linux version of course. Not a single crash yet, and they fixed the bad HTTP authentication password bug that plagued M14. Good job! Everything seem to render well also.
But there are still a few minor details. I can surf with it now, but fixing these would make it infinitely nicer. And I probably won't rpm -e netscape until they're fixed.
1. The Alt-arrow keys for page forward/backward don't seem to work
2. When pressing BACK, it ALWAYS reloads the previous page from the network. That's ridiculous, and slow. Yes, I do have cache turned on and a directory set.
3. When opening link in new window (via the pop up window) and then closing that window, the up/down arrow keys do NOT work on the original page you were at until you click on a link to move to another page. The scrollbar works fine.
4. Middle-click on a link does not yet open a new window. I use that extensively in NS 4.x. Where is it?
5. Sometimes silly things don't work like when I click the "Pricewatch" link on Slashdot's slash box. Hmmm.
Nevertheless, this is the first milestone I may actually use for a signifcant portion of my browsing. Good work!
> why don't they make the GUI skinnable?
I believe what you're after is ChromeZone.
Mozilla is much more than just skinnable. Read up on XUL for more information.
Well, so Tojo Inc. invented dinosaurs, right? Oh well, and these fossils were actually secretly planted over there by workers of Tojo Inc. just to promote the trademark and now archeological museums should pay Tojo, Inc. for it too?
-- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
Aren't trade marks only relevant if both products are in the same market? If Microsoft's next piece of software had the same name as model of milking machinery, wouldn't that be okay under the law? They don't dilute each other's brand name as they're not competing in the same market.
A media dinosaur that appeared in many badly dubbed Japanese films versus the mascot of a web browser... I'm a consumer and I'm not confused. Maybe there are problems with it in other countries, but not here... perhaps it should carry a different name there (it wouldn't be the first product to have different name in a different country). Does Tojo, Inc sell software? I haven't heard of them before (maybe I'm ignorant). I don't think they're a household name around here and thus there is no confusion.
Wasn't "Mozilla" loosely based on "Mosaic Killer", the other main browser that was around when Netscape started? Irony of that is that I believe Internet Explorer is based on Mosaic, or technology licensed from the NCSA. Perhaps when they hit on the name Mozilla they decided a dinosaur would be cool, cashing in on the geekiness of Godzilla over here.
Can't get rid of the sidebar, huh? What's wrong with just unselecting "Sidebar" from the "View" menu? It's the first thing I did when I got M14. Works fine for me. BTW, this is with the Win32 version I have in front of me. From memory, the Unix version is all but identical. As for the buttons being too large, just download (or write) a different theme.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
The problem with this (as I've been finding out) is that you currently need to quit the browser and restart it with different arguments to change the chrome. Since I'm stuck with having to use the Win32 version at work, that's a real pain. Yes, I suppose I could launch it from a DOS box, but that's more effort that I want to expend. Maybe I'm just too lazy...
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
OK, so I'm biting an amusing troll...
Mozilla was the original name of the Netscape web browser before Netscape became a household name. It was chosen to be a "Mosaic Killer" - hence, Mozilla. Netscape's HTTP header still calls the browser Mozilla.
The full story, and other amusing Netscape trivia, can be found on jwz's site.
Windows 2000: Designed for the Internet. The Internet: Designed for UNIX.
(ob-see-kwi-us) adj. excessively or sickeningly respectful.
There isn't anything to be gained by ripping apart Mozilla. It's the most high profile closed-to-open source project there is, and it's a poster boy for open source, like it or not. But for what passes as a pack of hungry wolves on most every subject here on /., Mozilla brings out the damndest bunch of apologist weenies I've ever seen.
Mozilla is big, behind schedule, unstable, and now developed by mostly AOL employees (sorry guys, but face the facts). Sounds like Windows almost, doesn't it? Yet everybody is so willing to prop this baby up and say it will. Well, cut the future tense crap.
Honesty. Do you use Mozilla for your daily browser under Linux? Have you contributed patches? If not, stop making excuses.
What the Mozilla project needs is a healthy dose of reality.
It would help the Mozilla team find the cause of the bug (they can't reproduce it on their setup) if you could add additional information about the setup of your machine (i.e. what graphics cards you have installed, etc) - also mention that you're using M15 rather than a nightly build.
The link for the bug is http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_ bug.cgi?id=36239 please register a bugzilla account and add your comments.
--
Make use of your spare CPU time!
If you moderated this as redundant and just noticed a karma hit, it's because I just metamoderated it as unfair.
At the time this was posted only one other post had inquired as to the menaing of "woody", post #7, and only 5 minutes earlier.
#7 could easily not have been up yet when this person loaded the page and I don't they should take a karma hit for it.
Especially since there were so many other replies posted to this story that are much more deserving candidates for downward moderation.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Actually, yes they are already in beta. The first beta was forked to make Netscape 6 PR1, the second beta is upcoming.
cool, xmlterm is finally included. xmlterm seems like a really neat project, check it out at http://www.xmlterm.org/. i wish there was a way to build it though without having to build the whole mozilla source tree. rpms are available at the website, but they didn't work too well with m14. this build seems to have a good bit of functionality though. keep up the good work.
Whine whine, bitch bitch and bitch. Bitch bitch, whine whine, bitch.
Moan and piss. Piss and moan.
Bitch and complain and whine. I want my money back. Why don't you just use IE5 like a normal person you retard? Freak! (Points finger and makes Body Snatchers alert sound.)
What's taking so long? Complain. Moan and whine. Why doesn't ActiveX work? Piss and bitch.
Why can't I convince you all to just use IE5? It really really is better! Really.
Goddammit just use IE5! I told you to use IE5! You assholes! Use IE5!
Bitch bitch, moan and complain.
Oops. Sorry I have to stop now. I just installed a bugfix to IE5 and I have to reboot. Don't you just love to reboot? I do. I gives me time to run to the kitchen and grab a snack.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
I'd cringe if my browser went to the same page when I open a new window. 99% of the times I open a new window to go somewhere else while leaving the other page open; I have netscape configured not to load anything initially, so I get a new *empty* window where I can type or paste an URL or go to a bookmark. if your "home portal" takes your precious time, turn the damn thing off! you can always click on "home" when you want to go there.
Hmmm, I showed around M14 at the office, and the most common comment from the WinUsers was that the UI (or 'skin') was too simple. No dropdowns on the back and forward buttons, no customizable toolbar, right-clicking doesn't work much of the time and so on. Not to mention my dreams of "Disable/Enable JavaScript" buttons and the like. (I have to admit I am a horrible user -- I have 3x the normal buttons my MS Word toolbars and like it that way.)
If the current, simple skin is too complex to be rendered quickly, how are you going to build up the UI? I know that the panels are a solution for certain things like Radio and so on, but there's lots of room for featuritus on the skin itself.
There's already talk in the Mac community to write a native container to host the Mozilla rendering engine. (Well, you guys have got the menubar in the wrong place on a platform of very anal users, what do you expect?). I'm wondering if the native container approach is being seriously considered for the major platforms (Windows, Mac, X11), and 'skins' be left as a feature to be exercised by third parties.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
One of the changes in M15 that I am happy to see, is the ability to block images from arbitrary sites directly from the browser.
All you have to do is right-click on an image, select "Block Image from Loading" (which apparently should read 'Block all images from the site this image came from') and reload. It works great for for blocking banner ads from adforce, doubleclick, etc!
You can edit the list of blocked sites in preferences:advanced:cookies and images. Hopefully there will be a way to automatically import a bunch of junkbuster-like rules in future versions.
One off-topic criticism- Checkboxes on Mozilla look (in their unchecked state) like they are depressed buttons, which is confusing.
Be Well,
-OT
For me, I think, Moz's finally reached the point of usability? Why? The click on link with middle button to open in a new window shortcut finally works! That feature is the one I've been waiting for--it's the one I've missed using every other Moz build, and every other browser on every other platform. I'm happy now.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
I don't know about 1 and 2 but for the rest, these are already implemented.
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
IIRC from the last thread when NS PR1 came out it was stated that DHTML is different because in Mozilla it is based strictly on the W3C standard while NS 4.x and IE have made their proprietary extentions and only have part of the DHTML standard supported. Mozilla is more standards compliant, on all fronts, but this breaks backwards compatability on many pages, the upside is that once they are coded around the actual standard (who woulda' thunk?) this kind of thing won't happen again.
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
It's a _big_ improvement over M14 - sidebar MUCH improved, scrolling is smoother, disk cache works, and - my favorite - they added XMLTerm, a terminal emulator in XML. It's a bit slow, but boy, is it fun.
"If ignorance is bliss, may I never be happy.
-- Veni, vidi, dormivi
Hmm, maybe if I download the source and compile M15 with pgcc (with '-march=pentiumpro -mcpu=pentiumpro -Os', or maybe -O9 instead of -Os) it could be as fast as it's supposed to.
Anyways, congrats to the people at mozilla.org, and I hope it's as stable as IE right now (that's right, this is being written in Windows since I can't handle Netscape 4 bringing down X with it all the time)
Maybe this weekend I'll install it (after taking the pointless standardized tests the state's making me take)
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
Yes, it's unstable and slow. But imho, it shows real promise. All the important things are working. I've got good hopes on this being best browser out there, at least as soon as I manage to get only bookmarks and html rendering and am able to kick all the rest out, but that's possible I think, I read something about that anyway.... Have to look into that some day soon...
Exactly. As is the same with /. Yet, browsers are expected to grok this utter shit.
Here we all are, hooting and cheering that we finally have a Standards Complying browser.. Well guess what, people don't write code to those same Standards. Some WYSIWYG editors don't make 100% compliant code.
And yet, it's still expected to display all these things. Should we really expect Mozilla to render bad HTML? I'm amazed it does. Building a web browser is a fairly thankless job. Here's to hoping with better browsers, people will take incentive to write better code.
Where are the crypto enabled builds? Or they already crypto enabled? Why arn't all nightlies enabled yet? When I mean enabled I mean containing the hooks, I release you still have to download the crypto seperatly.
The UI, if it's built all with browser components, is VERY complex, but it doesn't have all the features we've come to expect, so in a way, it is simplistic (ie, forcing you to use the menus and buttons instead of shortcuts, etc.)
And in many ways, it's too complex. If I look at a page side-by-side in N6 and N4.5, N6 wastes *so* much screen space, with those big ugly buttons (sorry) and the sidebar you can't get rid of, and the extra bar at the bottom.
That and that N6 uses weird spacing compared to N4.5, such that many pages I viewed seemed to have 1.5 lines between text instead of one. And N6 uses huge fonts in some cases.
www.arstechnica.com - looks like it's in 640x480 it's so huge
www.anandtech.com - the search boxes/etc are screwed up
Those are just the two most obvious examples.
If N6 could be made to look exactly like N4.5 with the exception of a new logo in the corner, and to render pages nearly identically, I'd switch, *now*.
btw, the java at the Soda constructor site and a few others refused to work, but it was turned on, and it worked in 4.5, so I dunno what's up.
I reported this and a few other actual bugs, what I'm talking about here for the most part is features that I don't like, not 'bugs'...
The mozilla port to SGI is still very broken (and has been for more than six months since the SGI maintainer took off). That's disappointing since my box at work is an O2. But get this: I just downloaded the Linux M15 and ran it on a linux box displayed remotely on my SGI. Mozilla remote is FASTER than Netscape 4.7 running locally. Sheesh. Mozilla seems very nice despite the minor cosmetic bugs. If the SGI port worked minimally, I would join in the hacking effort.
It appears that the main problems with the SGI port are in the assembly code in the xpcom module. That, of course, is the heart of the port. I've seen posts on the Mozilla newsgroups from SGI management saying that they would like to make the SGI mozilla port a priority, but it seems that hasn't happened. Personally, I'm undecided about whether I'd rather see SGI programmers working on Netscape or on XFS for Linux, etc. I'm probably going to switching to a Linux box in the near future anyway. So the big question is whether less common boxes like SGIs will eventually join the future of software like Mozilla or if they will become like the Amiga or the NeXT: Loved by those who like their unique software but loathed by those who have gotten used to software on other boxes.
So what's the story on BeZilla? I haven't heard anything about it in awhile, and I just started using BeOS again. NetPositive is alright, but it doesn't render a whole lot of pages correctly, and I can't *stand* Opera.
Damn straight! My mouse wheel STILL doesn't work
Are you running imwheel? If so, try not running it - the mouse wheel works in enough Linux programs now that it's not necessary anymore. It works fine in most GTK programs (since it's supported natively by the toolkit) and works great in Mozilla. But it won't work in Mozilla if you have imwheel running.
Can someone please tell me how to make a GNOME launcher for Mozilla?
/path/to/mozilla/package && ./run-mozilla.sh
Easy - create a shell script that contains:
#!/bin/bash
cd
Now point the gnome launcher to the shell script (don't forget to "chmod +x" the shell script first)
Damn straight! My mouse wheel STILL doesn't work. (Works everywhere else, just not in Mozilla. (Yes it an MS-mouse.)) The mail client in NS6p1 is excrutiatingly sluggish. The widgets lack consistent rightclickability. (I still think rolling their own widgets was a bad call.)
Hell, they've had 2 years to make their HTML render engine, said it was the best thing on the block, and I still find major bugs in it. (namely text overlaying graphics and tables that get duplicated).
I REALLY want an opensource browser, but this is just becoming a debacle.
this is under NT. :(
:/
Average uptime 2 days 14 hours 49 minutes.
You misunderstand. It saves the settings to the local disk. Storing it at AOL/netscape/etc would not only be insecure, but slow, busy (millions of users) and redundant.
I personally _hate_ how IE goes to the current page when you open up a new window. What if you currently happen to be on the result page of submitting an credit card order or something? There are some sites, such as moviefone.com, which will sit there for up to 2 minutes waiting to contact the theater you're buying a ticket for and finally will add to the page that the order has been finalized. While presumably an already loaded result page will simply be passed over to the new window without reloading, what would happen in the case of pages similar to this moviefone.com page where the page is not yet complete? I know it's possible for this to work safely, but I don't necessarily trust that it will be implement correctly, and I don't really see the point. Why would you want two copies of the same page, anyway? Opening links in a new window performs this function better.
Then again, I hate when a web browser goes to any page at all by default. I've always used "start with a blank page" in Netscape and Mozilla. I'm a bit annoyed when programs do things for me automatically that usually aren't correct. For the same reason, I don't like automatic name completion.
If anything, these should be configurable, _easily_ (yeah, yeah, "go edit the source you lazy ass!").
hey, just because mozilla isn't stable enough to handle all those popups while you're looking for porn doesn't mean all the rest of us need to hear it!
(it's funny - laugh. please. no, not the "troll" moderation. PLEASE!)
-- Imagine how much more advanced our technology would be if we had eight fingers per hand.
If you want some different icons try over at The Chromezone. Actually they haven't updated the page in a while, but the newer icons are up at my page.
"The point of good compilers is world domination. The point of not-so-good compilers is to serve quality coffee at an affordable price. Any questions? - phi1"
/have/ to know where that quote is from!
Ok, I
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Basically, Nautilus (the Eazle file manager) will now embed the Bonobo mozilla component. In one step Nautilus has leaprogged Konquerer and Opera in standards-compliant web browsing, and provided a native GTK-zilla without any of that skin bloat.
Of course we'll have to wait a few months for a Nautilus beta. But I guess it'll take that long to fix the memory leaks in Mozilla.
is decent printing. Right now you cannot even print off email! I probaly print a couple emails a day. I _need_ to be able to print. For some reason the bug to fix printing has been pushed back to M20! How can you expect anyone to be able to 'full-time' test a webbrowser/mail client that cannot print? Even pages without frames get completely mangled. *sigh*
The state of the sidebar isn't stored in prefs, its stored in your profile's localstore.rdf file.
Open the file in a text editor, (its 'localstore.rdf' in your profile folder)
and find the lines:
182
The value within 'width' may not be the same as mine (this is the pixel width of the sidebar box). Add the line true between the tags. Make sure mozilla is not running while you do this as it writes to this file on shut down.
I don't know why your sidebar settings aren't being saved automatically... but maybe doing it manually like this might help.
d'oh. the code snippet was:
i debar-box">
<RDF:Description about="chrome://navigator/content/navigator.xul#s
<width>182</width>
</RDF:Description>
and the line you should add is:
<hidden>true</hidden>
The current skin is far from being 'too simple' from a code point of view (regardless of whatever it looks like at the user level)
Here are some of the different types of buttons we have style rules for:
button32 - large round toolbar buttons in navigator
button28 - round toolbar buttons for action items in second tier apps
other28 - round toolbar buttons for less important items in second tier apps
push - 3D outset dialog buttons
dialog - padded/default buttons for dialogs
toolbar-flat - personal toolbar and taskbar buttons
and there are several more I forget the classnames for - the 'search' button, the editor toolbar button styles, etc.
Now compound this with styles for other widgets, masses of formatting and padding styles, and you end up with a heck of a lot of style rules!
With a 4.x style skin, the browser window would have only one kind of button - the kind with the outset border with the black outline. (look at a 4.x window on windows, that's the only button type there is...) The other type would be dialog buttons. Two kinds. One kind of menu, one kind of tree widget, etc
=> smaller number of rules, faster traversal.
The native container approach is not being considered by Netscape's contributors, however there has been interest in the past among others. With a compelling embedding story, this should be possible - look at the 'web browsers' that have grown around IE's Trident.
Skinnability is one of the high priorities for Netscape 6 PR2, and is my highest priority work assignment at present.
Here's what we are doing:
1) making the FE skinnable by scrubbing the XUL code that describes it
2) creating a skin switching UI for the preferences window
3) creating skin download and installation mechanisms
4) creating new skins!
We need to get 1 nailed before we can do 4, although 2 and 3 are currently also in progress. Stay tuned...
Ben Goodger
mozilla.org UI lead
This is something we would dearly like to support - customizable menus, toolbars etc. Mozilla Classic on Windows had draggable toolbar buttons, you could drag navigation buttons and bookmarks on personal toolbars into different toolbars and locations. In Mozilla Classic, this was all done using RDF. Theoretically this is possible today in Seamonkey using RDF, however you would want Balls of Steel to attempt it, and the solution would probably be annoyingly complex. Whenever he gets time (probably not for version 1.0) David Hyatt (hyatt@netscape.com) mentioned that he could implement dynamic XUL overlays (overlays that persist state, such as item order etc) which would make this sort of thing much easier to set up.
and its a /beta/. people installing this who are not prepared for nigh on anything to happen to their systems DESERVE WHAT THEY GET.
I've lost a 2 year mailbox to mozilla, but I'm an active developer so I don't care, I know that if we don't test and fix bugs, we get nowhere - we may as well give up and go home.
remember the IE4 betas? they were pieces of shit. One of them nearly took down my system. Did people claim MS was doomed and that their final release would suck?
MS did something dramatic with IE4 - even the final version of that browser wasn't perfect, but they'd built themselves a solid platform for ease of upgrade in future versions (5.0, 5.5 - both of which were very stable in beta). Mozilla and Netscape are at the IE4 stage - do something incredibly different.
You're right, some of the other application packages available that use Mozilla XPToolkit technology are faster (e.g. Aphrodite, Sullivan etc) because their style sheets are significantly simpler.
One of the problems with the current skin is that it is huge, style wise - many rules for the different components of the UI (grey menubar menus, blue personal toolbar menus, different types of buttons etc), all of which are read into one large soup of style rules, which must be traversed (looking for matches) when resolving style for elements as the content is built (or is changed). This style resolution is a contributor to some of the UI sluggishness you may have seen.
Once the foundations of skinnability are in place (which is one of my current tasks), we will work to produce a simpler skin that should see some subtle but noticable performance improvements!
Thanks,
Ben Goodger
mozilla.org UI lead
Any new wiz-bang features released here? Any more huge packages lumped on?
Can your IM do this?
This time, I've got the ftp site in my bookmarks :P While this downloads, I, as many of you I'm sure, are worried that it's still going to be very buggy. Here's hoping that the mean uptime is good and high - I'd be willing to sacrifice speed/some features for stability.
--
The shareholder is always right.
Not really. It's intended to display to the spec (just like any other browser) but still messes up quite often. Most of www.gmx.de gets cut off, articles linked to from slashdot get jumbled, etc. Yes, it's open source, so these bugs get fixed in a reasonable amount of time, but mozilla isn't anywhere near being able to claim standards compliance.
Following the specs to the letter isn't such a great idea anyway, even when they're not contradicting each other and themselves. According to Ian Hickson, image alt text is supposed to be displayed as normal text, with nothing distinguishing it from page text, unless the page specifies how broken images are supposed to be displayed. And, oh, the spec for how to say how broken images are displayed will be in the NEXT version of CSS for website developers who don't want to use mozilla-specific code. Very few webpages with broken or slashdotted images look good in mozilla as a result, and layout is completely messed up even when width= and height= are specified.
It's like one dynamic living document... I love it.
Yeah, it's cool, as long as you have a dual 1Ghz box. (I'm sure it will start getting faster quickly once the features solidify a little more.)
It's a platform, not a program.
So why does the security still suck? (see my sig)
--
The shareholder is always right.
There should be a way to disable the onLoad and onUnload functions or at the very least be able to prevent them from opening new windows. The most annoying thing about some websites is not being able to view them without them spawning countless child windows.
Step 2) Upzip the skin into a new folder in your d:\M15\chrome folder and name the folder the same as the skin.
EXAMPLE: I have 1 skin in D:\M15\chrome\aphrodite\ and another skin in: D:\M15\chrome\hoopyfrood\
Step 3) Create a text file in d:M15 with a .BAT extention on it and put the following in that text file:
mozilla.exe -chrome chrome://NAME OF YOUR SKIN FOLDER/content/
Step 4)If you find yourself frustrated with all of this windows madness, look into installing Linux.
___
PIII 450 128M Voodoo3AGP running (woefully) Win98.
About the ball:
Mozilla M15 (from:ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/r eleases/m15/) Build 2000041805 a 5339K download without the talkback client.
Impressions:
[1] Downloading the program is fast. Getting a browser, mail and news in under 6M (1254 files), is impressive.
[2] click Mozilla.exe --> open browser == 11 seconds. Cool.
[3] Moving my mouse along the pull down menus, considerable lag when I hover over bookmarks (prolly from the 985 bookmarks:).
[4] Pulled down QA and loded the smoke tests. all OK.
[5] Loaded the aphrodite skin. The GO button is a few pixels to low on the tool bar but, It all works well.
[6] Loaded the Sullivan skin. The back ground color looks like something changed. M15 has a darker grey than the background on the buttons.
[7] Loaded xml.com Alert: "the connection was refused when attempting to contact adforce.imgis.com". There's a dialog for every time an image doesn't load. had to press OK 8 times.
[8] Fast...ohmygod fast. Loaded the Jargon file v4.2.0 Jargon.html file from my local drive (2.16M) and saw it on the screen in less than 2 seconds!
[9] Clean interface, standards compliant, and ohmygod fast.
[10] My best regards to the entire Mozilla team and to all that help them with this wonderfull platform. Your quality work shows in all that you do. To those of you who have been waiting for a working browser before you start your mozilla development project . . .come and get it! !
___
TechWeb has a review of Netscape 6, preview 1. It's not very flattering. Some quotes:
"Netscape 6 PR1 is far from ready for prime time, however. It's not even close-- yet."
"If things remain the same, AOL might succeed at doing to Netscape Navigator and the ever-popular Lizard (Mozilla) what Microsoft (stock: MSFT) and its Internet Explorer were never able to do -- kill it."
Harsh words -- but in line with many people's experiences that have posted here on Slashdot in the past.
It will be interesting to see if they can get the problems worked out and make it a competitive browser.
--
It will be better at web-FTP than IE5 for windows, which was the MOST IRRITATING thing I have ever seen. (it turned it into a file folder, but drag and drop didn't work, so you needed to Right Click, Copy To Folder, then do some GODFORSAKEN SHIT to get it to save... that option went off REAL FAST)
All you have to do is double click on the file and it'll ask you whether you want to download the file. Counter-intuitive, but not as bad as you made it out to be.
====
different chromes are on http://www.mozillazine.org/chromezone
the command-line switch you seek is
./mozilla -chrome chrome:///content
chrome support is a bit technical right now, but I think the prefs dialong will have a GUI picker in the near future. In the meantime there are directions for the interested in the chromezone.
The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
The next release of Debian, the Linux distro with a motto of 'We may not be cutting edge, but dammit, we're stable, and people like us.' ;)
Weapons of Mass Analysis
Even better... Opera Preview Release 3 is out. Light, tight and better then before
I have a fast mirror site here: ftp://ftp.c-60.org/pub/mozilla/
I am playing with Linux nightly build. It is newer and buggier than M15, which is likely rolled off into another line a week or two before.
The speed is definately picking up... I remember waiting for form pulldowns to draw... It's very close to the same league as NS4.7, and it's doing a SHITLOAD more.
The KILLER APP is the UI overhaul themes... I played with a few last night... If you DONT LIKE MOZILLA NOW, WAIT FOR THE NEW THEMES... A lot of the sluggishness is due to the sidebars and the moving crap and shit... Stuff like the ANDREW theme or whatever the fuck it's called makes things SIGNIFICANTLY faster...
I know because i tried them. =P
It displays most pages right.
It never knows when to stop moving the throbber.
And if you jack up the DPI setting in preferences, you can actually read the fonts.
No java in the nightlies, oh well.
It works much better than before, has replaced NS4.7 for me, remembers preferences well, behaves well, and is ACTUALLY GETTING FASTER... I can see what this will become and I seriously like it.
(faster as in, it is usable on my 400/128 assuming the X server is given a relatively high priority)
Oh yeah, the little turquoise pulldown next to the address bar with the down arrow is really damn sweet... mozilla has POTENTIAL... I like it.
-troll taker
I believe the code for automatic address-completion went in a couple days ago. It's probably not turned on or something.
Mozzy has password remembering already set up. It works okay. The mailer is radically better than previously. Javascript works. Most webpages work pretty well.
It will be better at web-FTP than IE5 for windows, which was the MOST IRRITATING thing I have ever seen. (it turned it into a file folder, but drag and drop didn't work, so you needed to Right Click, Copy To Folder, then do some GODFORSAKEN SHIT to get it to save... that option went off REAL FAST)
Mozilla knows how to download shit and save and open local files now.
Mozzy starts up without dying now. The initial load is very sluggish, like everything else. If it is in cache, it starts up very very quickly.
The biggest gripe is focus issues... They're still fruity and it is far too easy for focus to go into the void, leaving you with a useless shell.
The extras and the obscene flexibility of the UI definition language will make this a seriously cool thing... If you can't imagine how cool something this flexible will be, then that's sad.
It's like one dynamic living document... I love it.
So the colors suck. Deal. You can change them later. A theme manager will likely be set up in a few more months..
It displays shit correctly, to the spec... There are workarounds for shitty HTML like slashdots...
It remembers your homepage, it remembers all sorts of shit now. Except that goddamn default toolbar. Oh well.
Most of what sucks about mozilla is being fixed or can be changed by you... That's what i like about it. And it is free after all.
And stop bitching about the extra features... The editor and the mail program and all that shit are basically hyper-dynamic webpages. The size is probably going to be like 10MB compressed for EVERYTHING that mozzy does when it gets to netscape release... that includes all SORTS of shit plus new java.
/me shrugs... It's really not that bad folks. And it will continue to get better as long as AOL keeps dumping enormous amounts of money into the project.... And we all start learning how to design better (faster/more effective) user interfaces for mozilla faster...
It's a platform, not a program.
-troll taker
You can cook up your own skin. www.mozilla.org/chromezone has some cool looking ones, including "Navigator Classic" for "I like the old look" crowd. As for those of you who want your favorite hotkeys, they're been turned off for now. As for me, I just want the memory leak pluged. Nothing big ;-)
it is even easier to type this directly in the properties dialog of the launcher;
/path/to/mozilla/package; ./run-mozilla.sh
cd
Underlined text is more difficult to read and is ugly.
The reason underlined text is used at all is because of typewriters. I'll explain.
Before (and since) the advent of the old-fashioned mechanical typewriter, emphasis in text was achieved through italics or bold or a combination of the two. Underlining was eschewed by professionals for the reasons cited above. How, then, was someone to emphasize text with a typewriter with no italics or bold available? Underlining, of course!
Then the GUI word processors appeared and an entire generation of typographically-challenged folk retained the underline from their typewriter days instead of restricting their emphasis of text to the bold and italic modes that were suddenly available.
The default settings of Netscape's Navigator (and the earlier Mosiac) had underline text for links, but the preferences allowed them to be turned off, which, of course, I immediately took advantage of.
The Mozilla builds I've seen so far have not provided this option. Is anybody listening out there? Please put the option to turn off underlining in the preferences.
Thanx.
I'm using Netscape 6 and after turning off the sidebar, it never comes up again. Which version of Mozilla are you using? If it's an older version, try upgrading. If it's M15, then you should report the bug.
"Control the media, control the mind."-Cabal
All this discussion on whether Winmag would be biased against NS 6 is ridiculous because they gave it a glowing review. The article discussed the preview release at length, calling it a "revolution" and lauding both its features and Netscape's desicion to use an open-source design model. In particular, they frame it as being a real competitor for IE. In fact, it's one of the most positive review of NS6 that I've read. Anyone saying the Winmag is biased against NS should read this before sounding like an idiot.
The bus came by and I got on
That's when it all began
There was cowboy Neal
At the wheel
Of a bus to never-ever land
I'd rather be lucky than good.
This release is just mostly bugfixes and speeding it up.. Mozilla is looking really nice..
BTW, use its FullCircle Feature!! It'll help the developers improve it quicker and more thorough..
-meff
Look at the Mozilla dinosaur icon -- it looks identical to Gojira (aka Godzilla). THIS IS PLAGIARISM. Gojira (aka Godzilla) existed DECADES before the Internet was ever created, let alone the Mozilla project. And don't tell me this is just a coincidence; the name "Mozilla" is obviously intended to sound like "Godzilla". Copyright and trademark law prevents the use of similar names and logos when they are likely to confuse consumers. Well, if I was a consumer, I'd be damned confused -- a browser named "Mozilla" with a dinosaur mascot sure sounds like it's endorsed by Tojo, Inc. This is not true.
Why this has not been acted on is a mystery to me. The "Mozilla" dinosaur clearly violates Tojo, Inc's copyright on Gojira (aka Godzilla. C'mon, guys, how about choosing something a little more original -- like, say, a ferret? How many ferrets out there do you see as corporate mascots? Huh?
This post will act as an unofficial petition to the Mozilla developers to select a new mascot that does not resemble Gojira (aka Godzilla). Simply reply to this message if you want to add your name to the list.
Yu Suzuki
Yu Suzuki
Deamcast. It's thinking.
Why does this poor person keep getting moderated down? Negative moderation should be reserved for trollz, such as myself.
Here's something to get your started:
MODERATORS TOSS MY SALAD WITH JELLY AND SYRUP!!!
THEY LIKE THE TASTE AND THE TEXTURE!!!
MMM...MMM...GOOD!!!
Moderate that, beeeyotches!
--
Trollin' fer syrup!