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Are PowerMacs Compatible with Generic PC Hardware?
linux_penguin asks: "Recently I've been interested (as is everyone I suppose) in OS X. My girlfriend is currently studying desktop publishing, and is using Illustrator, PageMaker etc at tech. I'm thinking of buying her a powermac. This will allow her to study at home, and give me a chance to have some fun with OS X when it finally comes out. I've looked at the pricing of these things, and there appears to be large price jumps from one model to another, with only minor changes in spec. Not only that, but their monitors are *so* expensive... and thoughtfully, a large jump in spec. I thought it might be better to buy a mid-range powermac with no monitor or accessories, and upgrade it myself. My question is, is this a feasible thing to do? Do Macs support standard SVGA monitors? I know it supports USB devices, but could I upgrade the H/D, RAM or whatever with off-the-shelf components?"
Here are the following types of things that can be added/used with/upgraded in the current round of G4 macs (and most G3 macs too)
PC-100 Ram
ATA/33 and ATA/66 drives
PCI
AGP 2x
USB
1394
SCSI
Iomega Zip
etc.etc.etc...
Here is what I have on my PowerMac 7500
- Voodoo 3 2000 PCI card
- Entrega USB 2 port PCI card
On my G4
- 256 Megs of PC-100 Ram (Bought it at Pomona computer show)
- 30 gig Western Digital 7200 RPM ATA/66
- Voodoo 3 2000 PCI (because i want two monitors)
- Dell 19" VGA monitor (on the Voodoo 3 card)
- Micron 17" VGA monitor (on the Rage128 AGP)
- USB Video Bus by Belkin (Made for Windows 98)
- Kensington Turboball (USB)
On my Wallstreet G3
- Lucent Silver ORiNOCO (formerly WaveLan, formerly geesh!) Airport compatible PCMCIA card
the days of mac only hardware are just simply gone. Now, its just a matter of drivers, most of the time.
get a mac
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Viewsonic builds great quality monitors and they provide drivers for both Apple and PC computers. They sell cheaper versions under the brand Optiquest. My Viewsonic is almost 4 years old and the only problem I've had so far happened 1 month before the three year warranty window expired and they happily fixed it and returned it.
You see, I tried to save some money by using generic PC100 memory and it didn't work. The problem I found is that the machine needs 2/2/2 timed memory sticks, and higher quality=better stability. You might end up looking at the PC133 rated memory, going a bit over the specs with generic stuff may help resolve potential timing issues. I was lucky that I was able to exchange the memory I bought for better quality memory and the dealer ate the cost since I had specified that it must be Mac G3 compatible on the purchase order. The frustration of having 4 brand new blue G3's all crashing because of bad memory was a lesson to me, you get what you pay for.
The other area which you must be very cautious in is video cards. The quality of the mac drivers will be critical to your success. Currently ATI is the only one that seems to be in the game right now but those ATI rumors persist.
The things which will work with little hastle are most USB devices, just have to check if the manufacturer supports the Mac. 95% of IDE DMA/33 or DMA/66 hard drives will work, the problem might arise with the apple disk tools not being able to format the drive. I wouln't buy a hard drive any larger than the biggest one apple offers to avoid that potential hazard. Monitors are safe, apple dropped their proprietary monitor connector a few generations ago thank god. Watch out with printers. Some of those cheap as dirt printers on the market are brain dead so without a supported driver they are table art. A postscript printer is the native mac printer type but postscript doesn't come cheap, and it doesn't come with inkjets until they get to large format. If you don't need perfect prints (not doing publishing) just get a printer which is supported. Epson seems to be one of the better injet manufacturers for mac support.
Stuff that doesn't work well: Anything in that braindead cheap group of junk equipment like winmodems. Most add on PCI cards do not have mac drivers even though the mac supports the PCI slot standard. DVD decoders, TV tuners, some SCSI cards. First step would be to check a prospective devices manufacturer driver page. Some devices are supported on the mac but don't ship in a box that comes with drivers or any clue that it might be mac compatible. Lots of multimedia software is the same way. There are many educational and low end multimedia titles on the PC shelves that are hybrid discs with the code for both mac and PC computers on the same disk.
Here are some links to mac news pages which you might like to dig through the archives for. All 3 tend to run feature articles when new OS and hardware come out to gather problem reports and solutions which I find very useful.
www.macfixit.com
www.macnn.com
www.macintouch.com
- Normally, PCI cards don't work. The BIOS in most cards is x86 code, so it won't get executed in a Mac. Sometimes, there is a Mac driver which makes up for that. For instance, I was able to take a Diamond Monster 3D (Voodoo 1) video card, stick it in my PowerMac 8600, download some generic Voodoo 1 drivers, and it worked. In most cases, however, you need to have a Mac version of the card, especially for things like SCSI cards that let you boot devices.
- Newer macs use USB for most devices, so printers, scanners, external USB drives, etc will work, often without the need for drivers (Macs are generally much better than PC's at supporting hardware without the need for installing drivers). However, you must make sure that your USB device is Mac compatible. That may mean a visit to the manufacturer's web site to find out if there are drivers.
- Monitors and hard drives work without a hitch. I never buy Apple hard drives or monitors. In fact, since Macs now use PC video cards, they're even pin compatible (you used to have to buy a VGA-MAC converter). And any SCSI or IDE drive (depending on which Mac you have) will work.
- RAM is a little different. Any decent RAM vendor will carry DIMMs that work in Macs, but you should at the very least buy them from a vendor who KNOWS which DIMMs work in which Macs. I have been able to purchase memory at the lowest price for my Mac from a vendor who knows Macs, so you won't be paying more than you have to. Other posters have said that standard PC100 memory will work fine, and I have no reason to think that it won't.
The only options you want to consider are an internal Zip and DVD drives, since they make better internal than external devices. The internal Zip is unfortunately only 100MB. You may also want to get an external 1.44MB floppy compatible device, like an Imation SuperDisk.To avoid repeating other posts, I just want to say that the moderated posts from SmittyTheBold, Cadre, Que_Ball, and leejor are all excellent.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Check the monitors docs first that it is Mac compatible, most are but a few aren't.With memory just follow Apple's specs for exactly the right type and you can buy anyone's [go for quality brands if you're smart though, PC or Mac]. Video cards ATI has good drivers, 3Dfx will have a seperate Mac product for Voodoo5. I'm not sure where nVidea is right now.
I've done it, it's no real problem. The monitor's are definitely compatible and you might have a problem with some hd's but it should otherwise be ok.
*everything* is Orwellian to cats.
Apple does mark up their bundled RAM and HDs alot. You can save alot just by buying the low end machine upgraded with whatever CPU you want. Make sure when you buy the RAM to check that the speed is 2, 2, 2. I've seen more than one person buy el'cheapo RAM from the dealer on the corner and get stuck with crappy 3, 3, 3 RAM.
I'd recommend getting the Apple ZIP drive (if you want a zip drive) because it comes with the translucent bezal. If you don't specify the zip drive and you buy a generic zip from somebody you are just going to have a beige zip drive in a blue case...
The Studio Display monitors are worth every penny. With monitors, what you pay is what you get. If you get the cheapo $600 19" you are getting a bad monitor (but if you don't care, more power to ya). Studio Display's use ColorSync to give you a much better picture. The only other monitors that match the quality of an Apple monitor are the professional Sony FD Trinitron, Radius, etc, which are priced just as much (sometimes more). This one is your call. If you have the money, its a very good monitor.
The internal modem slot is proprietary (their are third party modems, but I don't think any of them fit in that slot). If you need a modem, the best one you can get is Apple's. If you don't need one, don't get it.
To sum it all up. Click the BTO button. Select whatever CPU you want, the ZIP drive, and the modem. Everything else buy from a quality third party dealer.
All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
Pretty much everything is cross-compatible any more.
On the hardware level, you can use SVGA monitors, IDE (ATA/66 even) hard drives, PC100 memory, PCI cards, perfectly fine. The one catch *may* be drivers. This is of course not an issue with hard drives, memory, and the sort. But many other peripherals such as the video card do need separate drivers. Unfortunately, ATI has the best cards for the Mac at the moment, but that is changing. 3dfx and (supposedly) nVidia are in the process of bringing support to the Mac.
Looking at the Apple store screen, pretty much everything is a DIY thing. I'll go through it with you. A current G4 gives you these choices:
CPU - Buy it now, it'll be pretty damn expensive to upgrade
RAM - Horribly expensive. get 64 MB, put your own PC100 into the remaining slots
Hard Drive - A little expensive, you can put an IDE drive in these machines pretty easily.
Monitor - Unless aesthetics mean *that* much, buy your own and pay half as much.
Zip - buy from Apple if you want it to look right - only the pre-builts come with the proper bezel for Zip installation.
DVD/CD - I really don't know. Should be compatible with standard ATAPI drives.
Video card - Well, you're stuck with the ATI card. Enjoy it. You should be able to upgrade later.
SCSI - If you want SCSI, go ahead. It's a decent price, and comes built for you. 3rd party options exist also. (such as Initio and Adaptec)
Modem - Apple has a special connector for this, so for an internal modem this is your option.
AirPort - These are VERY cool. For one machine though, there's no point.
Warranty - Don't bother. You probably won't need it.
Hope this helps a little,
-Smitty
± 29 dB
The hard drives are usually IDE, although some high end models may still be using SCSI. Video output is SVGA. Slots are PCI and AGP. I don't recall what type of memory it uses, but third party memory modules are a LOT cheaper than getting it through Apple.
IIRC, there are drivers for the Voodoo 3 for Mac... NVidia is supposed to be releasing Mac drivers soon too I think...
-JF
MrJoy.com -- Because coding is FUN!