Lamprey Cells Drive Robot

xmatt writes: "Eurekalert has a story posted from New Scientist about connecting neural material from a lamprey to light sensors and a cybernetic "body" made of two wheels and circuit board. Steve Grand, a expert in artificial life with Cyberlife Research in Somerset, describes the work as "laudably perverse" and likely to bring the world of cyborgs one step closer."

Comments

Interesting...

[chuckw]

I find this very interesting especially from the standpoint of the animal's reaction to increased abilities. It has long been shown that animals react differently when pulled out of their native habitat. Perhaps you could turn a non-agressive animal into an agressive one if it suddenly "realized" that it no longer had to be afraid of what once were it's natural enemies. Instincts run deep though.

I suppose the true reason for doing something like this is to augment the natural abilities of a naturally occuring animal. Are there any special abilities a Lamprey has that would be useful if augmented?

-Chuck

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But...

[Anonymous Coward]

What really matters is not that the lamprey was connected to some electronics, but whether or not this robot exhibited lamprey-like behavior. That is, did it have the same kind of response it would have to light? Or is there a major malfunction in the 'wiring' (for lack of a better term) between the Müller cells and the machine.

For all we know, the lamprey's Müller cells are firing frantically for no reason, and the scientists are studying nothing but behavior brought about by random, non-systematic firings of detached brain cells.

Fishbots

[Samedi1971]

What I'm wondering is how soon can I get a copy of the new Lego Mindstorms "Lamprey" kit, and will I have to supply my own fish nerves?

Moral implications

[streetlawyer]

Are the gains to science from this really so large as to justify the cutting up of a living animal? I don't really find anything "laudably perverse" in taking a knife to the living tissue of another creature. You might say I'm over-reacting, and that it's "only" a lamprey. But there's something about this story that doesn't make me want to trust these people. "Laudably perverse", as a judgement on the death of a creature doesn't suggest much respect for life, does it? Children who torture flies grow up to torture dogs, and later, people. How long will it be before these people decide that for their research they need a cat? a monkey? a baby? I just don't want to trust them unless they are strictly regulated, and unless they are subject ot democratic control including the power for elected representatives to close down all research in this field forever

Oh go on then, flame away. But there are millions of us "trolls" who care about animal cruelty, and if you want to maintain a freindly climate toward scientists, you'll need to respect us.

Re:Moral implications

[Shadox Tsurien]

You know, we kill way more fish every year to eat, and we sacrifice far more animals to science. This really is insignificant in terms of deaths; one fishing trip and I can do better. And monkeys can and have been used for much nastier research than this before.

And as for torture, the lamprey was under full anesthesia.

When it comes to preventing death or pain, you could focus on all the human tragedies going on in third world countries (Sierra Leon(sp?) for an example.) Worrying about one fish is, quite frankly, overreacting.

Arthur C. Clarke, you were right...

[robbo42]

Chapter 37: The Star Gate, plundered from 2001: A Space Odyssey:

...And now, out among the stars, evolution was driving towards new goals. The first explorers of Earth had long since come to the limits of flesh and blood; as soon as their machines were better than their bodies, it was time to move. First their brain, then their thoughts alone, they transferred into shining new homes of metal and plastic.
In these, they roamed among the stars. They no longer built spaceships. They were spaceships.

Not to be too evangelical about this; I don't for a moment believe that this is a Good Thing (tm). Just interesting to note that once again, A.C.C. manages to semi-predict the future.

As horrid as the thought is (to me anyway), I believe that it is a matter of time before we discard these bodies of flesh for "shining new homes of metal and plastic".

I, for one, am not religious, and quite frankly would rather not get caught up in any religious debates... so don't confuse me as being a religious zealot. Would you trust a machine with your brain? Not me.

This is a good topic for a discussion on ethics. Sure, a body better than the one I have would be nice for some things - but we're playing $DEITY in a big way here; I think that we have to be very careful what we do. Science, I feel, is becoming too advanced for it's own good.

My $0.02...

Re:Arthur C. Clarke, you were right...

[thantos]

"... too advanced for its own good."

While it might amuse you to know that I suspect the watchers while fire was first harnessed were thinking the same thing, I'd counter that, if anything, such a Luddite attitude is actually pretty insulting to at least some of us out here working to try and make human existance better, healthier, and more whole. Perhaps science is moving too fast for your ability (or even the masses' ability) to readily forcast new developments' impacts. Perhaps the act of research is creating new methods and approaches, entire suites of understanding, that require humanity to develop new social structures and mores. Perhaps, just perhaps, the flaw is not in science moving too swiftly, but in individuals being too foolish and reactionary to follow suit.

One of the primary motivations and goals of science is the pressure it places on society to grow, adapt, and change to accomodate eternally new situations and events. Without that, you might as well live in Imperial China, where scientific innovation could have gotten you beheaded (though society was 'protected' for thousands of years at a stretch). Perhaps you are willing to exchange a little safety for the liberty afforded by new ideas, new ways of thinking, new perceptions which we are granted by the strenuous efforts of thousands of scientists. The Internet, for example, is not an inherently safe thing, but a medium of facilitation unmatched in human history (save by the telegraph, or before that, speech).

Given the opportunity, I'd more than happily upload my personality and move into an immortal world of silver and silicon, leaving behind my useless arms, my insufficient sight, and the slowness of meat-memory. Give me a single opportunity and I'll happily exchange my left eye for an implant, my right arm for cybernetics, and my blood for nanotech-enhanced immunity to disease and wounds.

Bring to me the future!

In the end, it comes down to a simple axiom: Those who do not partake of the new fruits of the vine will suffer, wither, and die, while those who do, who move, who evolve, transmutate, transcend, will not. In the end, its that simple.

I choose life.

Re:This is a disgrace

[Darchmare]

Sometimes I have faith in our society - when a right-wing religious zealot (whether a joke or not) is labeled 'Funny'.

This is much preferrable to running from said zealot as he tries to strap you to a poll and light you on fire, or throws rocks at you.

If you are a troll - Good job! If not ... Good show!

Now, what about about those RMS clones...?

:>

(feeling myself being moderated to oblivian, which is okay - one must have fun you know)


- Jeff A. Campbell
- VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com)

Mobile phones?

[Eradicat5]

"More realistic, he says, is connecting electronic devices such as mobile phones directly into our brains."

For god's sake lads... enough with the mobile phones! Playstations, Toasters, Fridges, watches. I have a mobile phone, but only because I am running from the phone company (long story) and it was the only phone I could get without an ID (hooray, that should generate some flames). And while it is handy, yes... It is also the bane of my existence. I have a friend who is obsessed with her phone who will actually talk to her boyfriend long distance on the way to the movie theater, totally ignoring anyone she is with, and almost getting hit by cars/other pedestrians in her little phone trance.

This is a bit of a ramble, yeah.. but does anyone else think the whole connectivity thing is going a bit far? I mean, would anyone actually want a frickin mobile phone in their head? Like I don't have enough distractions in my brain without suddenly sensing 'neural rhythms inspired by the uk's top dj's'

IMHO, a mobile phone should be just that... a mobile phone that I can ignore/turn off/leave home/smash into a million pieces if I want to. If someone called you and you didn't want to talk to them and it was like wired into your brain, you couldn't exactly tell them 'oh sorry.. didn't get your call, my phone was dead'

Re:Lamprey with wheels

[/]

Never mind controling the tv. Lampreys are being used right now as we speak in the very same survey groups that are bringing you MTV's summer and fall lineups. It turns out they have similar brain capacities as the normal viewership but are cheaper to house and feed and only rarely eat their handlers.

Who wants to live forever

[Shotgun]

I'm only 33, and I can already tell you that I wouldn't want to live forever. As you get older, you begin to lose the highs and lows. It's not that I hate life, it's just that there isn't as much excitement when you have enough experience to know the outcome of a set of action.

Let's take a for instance. I have a young friend who is all tore up over his on-again/off-again relationship with a girlfriend. There is a lot of turmoil and excitement in his life over this relationship. My view on it is that he is being foolish and should just move on. I don't have any hope of the relationship working (she's too stupid). From my experience, I can see that all he's doing is riding a roller coaster. There's a lot of ups and downs, but no real chance of being seriously injured. The worst that will happen is that he'll feel a little nauseated at the end.

The thing that keeps life interesting is the idea that it will someday end. For me, it adds urgency. I've got to do what I've got to do, NOW.

Living a cyborg existence in a tin bucket for a million year would just have to suck. Besides, what would you do once Alzheimer's set in?

Re:This is a disgrace

[orpheus]

How can these so-called "scientists" live with themselves after creating something that is this much of a blasphemy against God and nature?

Yes, the ability to read is SUCH a curse...

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. {moveth: the Heb. is more like 'creepeth'}


There are roughly half a dozen similar passages in the OT and NT, and don't even get me started on the Koran and the various Talmuds -- they make the Christian Bible seem positively Luddite.