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Macs In Space!
Clark writes " SpaceViews
reports that the startup company SkyCorp will fly an Apple Macintosh G4 computer in an experimental satellite next year. It will be deployed from the space shuttle.
The server will be accessed as the sat passes in range via wireless
networking protocols, including a variant of Apple's existing AirPort wireless networking technology. The project, announced at the recent Silicon Valley Space Enterprise Symposium, is mainly intended as a test for Skycorp's plans to assemble and deploy satellites at the Space Station."
They went to Lucent to codevelop the new 11Mbit/sec version of Wavelan.
Wavelan is an old proven technology and Apple wanted something they could trust and has a good track record.
Lucent renamed Wavelan to Orinoco (or something) and is now selling the 11 Mbit/sec version in PC-CARD form for laptops.
There are even drivers for Windows 2000.
Can someone sneak a dual-boot on there? Of course the wireless hardware might not work and you'd probably be stuck with FBDev, but you could run Apache and get slashdotted. ("Websever runnning on soler power!")
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
You are correct. It is not rad-hard and will experience Single Event Effects (SEE) and eventual lifetime problems (Total Ionizing Dose or TID induced). But the fact of the matter is that "Rad-hard" is not necessarily required to properly operate in space. All devices have radiation effects characteristics which are measurable. You would be surprised at how well commercial off the shelf (COTS) devices perform in space. Many devices have event rates for SEEs (bit upsets, processor hangs, etc.) on the order (average) of years per event...Not a big deal when you consider that software problems often cause bigger problems. For more information, visit www.innocon.com/rad_effects.html or http://flick.gsfc.nasa.gov/radhome.htm
The PC603 was used on the Iridium constellation and has been a great technical success. The G4 is the PC750, correct?...It too has been considered for space applications for some time. I know measurements on the PC750 were made as far back as 1998 to determine the suitability of it for space use. The likely reason that it hasn't been put into space already is because many people in the aerospace industry are big time skeptics of COTS (commercial off the shelf) part. They believe all things commercial are crap. Which is definitely not true. It is difficult to get the kind of yields that commercial processes get without being incredibly high quality. And the truth of the matter is that except for radiation, there is not a big difference between ground and space electronics use. The vibration characteristics and thermal characteristics of use in a car are pretty demanding. And COTS parts have been demonstrated to work successfully in space with only simple protective concepts like current monitors (for single event latch-up) and EDAC (which has been used extensively even on the ground). The PC603 is just another example of this. The IDT3081 was a good example of a commercial microprocessor put into space with great success (Clementine).
This /has/ to be a hoax.
You don't believe we have the technology to put a computer in a satellite? Christ, man, screw your head back on. Nobody ever said this was a "stock" Mac G4 either. They're just playing the PR game. 386's are all over satellites. So what?
Satellites also generally spin to counter the temp. problems. Oh and they are covered in gold foil to reflect most of that IR radiation back out. The stuff inside stays at a nice even temperature.
And as for your GPL code stuff, Debian has been used on the shuttle, and I would be very suprised if Russia didn't have any GPL programs running on systems up in Mir (probably for experiment control, etc)... and I'm also not so sure that there isn't a satellite somewhere that just might have a chunk of GPL software burned into its ROM. I mean, with as many satellites as are up there, the chances that there's *not* are pretty slim, IMO.
~GoRK
2) How do they handle the altitude adjustments that the Iridium satellites were so dependent on? Similarly, if they expect these things to fly in a cluster (constellation), won't this impose a few difficulties?
I/O Error G-17: Aborting Installation
Looks like you're thinking of the UV protection provided by the ozone layer, and you're right insofar as a satelite would have to be beyond that.
UV isn't a problem for a satelite however - other radiation definitely is. Fortunately the orbit should still be within the van-allen belt which owes its existence to the earths magnetic field; most of the radiation except for visible light will thus be kept from harming the satelite or the G4 mac.
How large the possible problem would be depends upon the orbit. If the orbit is below 1000 km (which is likely), the problem is not very big...it is likely a total dose problem of about 1 to 3 krad(Si) per year. Most electronics parts can survive at least 10 krad(Si) while many can survive up to 50 krad(Si), with some parts into the Mrad(Si). The Single Event Effects (bit upsets and hangs) problems will occur most likely only in the South Atlantic Anomaly (SAA). In the SAA, fluxes for energetic protons (the most common cause of SEEs) are 5 to 6 orders of magnitude higher than the rest of the orbit. The SAA covers the region around Brazil mostly.
Above 1000 km and below about 6000 km, the problem is much more extreme. Fortunately this is not a very common place for satellites.
Above 6000 km, the SEE problem (except for solar flares) dissapates some and total dose problems become more of an issue.
Above 30000 km, the total dose problems largely go away, unless you decide to go to Europa.
These are really just generalizations and if you want an answer with more fidelity, you should use software like Space Radiation (www.spacerad.com).
>(except for solar flares)
But isn't it just about solar flare season?
I know it runs on an 11 year cycle, I'm just not sure where we are in that cycle right about now. But I could have sworn I read an article not too long ago about how we are almost due for another eruption of gobs of particle crud from the sun...
... with, of course, all of the requisite effects:
Northern lights at low latitudes.
Lots o' stuff in orbit getting fried (and a corresponding hiatus in shuttle flights).
And a total thrashing of worldwide radio communications.
Of course, this G4 could be planned to go up AFTER flare season. But isn't it still a valid concern?
john
Imagine all the people...
>AirPort encrypts the information sent
>over the network
Yeah, but remember it was designed for export BEFORE crypto laws were loosened.
I don't remember exactly what key length it uses, but it was something revoltingly small.... like 48 bit or 56 bit... something like that.
Not exactly your average 4096bit PGP key, is it?
john
Imagine all the people...
Since G4 processors are classified as "munitions" according to US export laws, will the these suckers count as orbiting weapons? Perhaps THIS was the antimissle 'Star Wars' program dubya was talking about. Uh oh, I blew the cover. There's the doorbell ... gotta go... NSA?! AAAaaargh!!!!!!
-- If the blues don't kill you, brother, they'll make you a mighty, might man.
- John Hamilton, Pursuit Ballistics
The Pjammer Chronicles --
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Ask Slashdot: What's this Linux thing?
Posted by emmett on Monday June 12, @12:20AM
from the i-just-like-the-penguin dept
NewbieLuser asks, "I'm pretty good using Micro$oft Windoze, but I've heard about this Lunix thing, and now I want to escape the EVIL EMPIRE and be a l337 h4X0r like you guys here at SlashDot. So I ordered a copy of "Red Hat 62", but my question is, what is it? What does it do? Can I install it from WIndows, or do I have to open up a DOS-box? (Ew! DOS is hard!)"
New Cracking Tool: SlashDoS
Posted by CmdrTaco on Monday June 12, @12:05AM
from the i-0wn-j00 dept
Slashdot has long been envied by 5cr1p7 k1dd13z for its ability to kill any webserver within five minutes of a link being posted to the front page. Now these l337 k1dd13z can harness the power of Slash, without having to learn all that hard Perl stuff! I am proud to announce the 1.0 release of SlashDoS! Update: CT: I know, I know, it's not Freshmeat!
Microsoft Spokesmen Diss Jackson's Momma
Posted by CmdrTaco on Sunday June 11, @10:59PM
from the damn-thats-cold dept
Today Microsoft Corporation responded to Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson's rulings by calling his mother a "fat bitch" and a "stank-ass hoe". One spokesman is quoted as saying, "Yeah, yeah, dat bitch got such a fat ass, dat when she sits around the house, she really be sittin' around the house!!" Fellow Microsoft spokesmen agreed with this analysis of Ms. Jackson's buttocks, giving each other "high-fives" and passing around a bottle of malt liquor.
Former Microsoft CEO William Gates refused to comment on these statements, other than noting that "Ms. Jackson, while perhaps not a huge muthafuckin bitch, ain't all that skinny, ya know what I'm sayin'."
Jackson is reportedly preparing a counter-statement in which Gates' mother is said to freely engage in promiscuous oral sex.
Transmeta Receives Round of Handjobs from Rob Malda
Posted by Hemos on Sunday June 11, @10:507PM
from the he-also-blows-quite-well dept
Transmeta Inc, employer of Linux frontman Linus Torvalds, received a round of handjobs from our own CmdrTaco earlier this week. Malda, who was always eager to post any Slashdot article mentioning the CPU designer, last week stated his intent to go "all the way". "It's obvious that I am sexually aroused by just the mention of the amazing company. I vow not to rest until I have brought each staff member to orgasm with my own two hands." The handjobs were eagerly accepted by Transmeta, whose engineers aren't too picky about their sexual partners.
Famed Hacker "Neo" Constructs Eight-dimensional Beowulf Cluster
Posted by Roblimo on Sunday June 11, @10:45PM
from the so-how-do-we-eat-soup? dept
"Neo", an underground hacker guru well known for his escape of the artificial world in which we all are trapped while our life is sucked away to feed a never-ending horde of robot-monsters, today unleashed a new weapon in his battle against the Agents: an eight-dimensional Beowulf cluster, codenamed "BW8". Slashdot has obtained an exclusive interview with "Neo". Here is an excerpt:
(Read More)
FreeBSD Merchandise on sale NOW!!
Posted by gay-nik on Sunday June 11, @10:44PM
from the this-is-slashdot-journalism? dept
I just thought I'd remind you to BUY FREEBSD MERCHANDISE! CD-ROMs, t-shirts, plush toys, and all sorts of other WONDERFUL merchandise is availble from Walnut Creek CD-ROM! Man, you guys should go buy some of this merchandise now, because it is HOT! Update: gay-nik: Hey, and don't forget to buy some of those OpenBSD posters! BSD RuleZzz!!
Jon Katz Finishes Pillaging of Slashdot Community
Posted by JonKatz on Sunday June 11, @10:41PM
from the man-i-really-screwed-you! dept
Well folks, it's time to say goodbye. I've completed my goal of infiltrating your community, playing on your sympathies by defending geeks, and gaining your trust, and now that I've gotten rich by stealing your comments and publishing them as a book (accompanied by my own lame analysis), I'm done with you losers. I'll probably spend the next few years pushing down children at Disney World and stealing their money. (Click below, if you feel worthy of reading more of my godlike opinions, you scum.)
Your Rights Online: Internet Banned
Posted by jamie on Sunday June 11, @10:39PM
from the xfiles-is-a-documentary dept
Okay, okay, the Internet wasn't really banned, but we can't trust those Government types, so who knows when it will happen?! So what will we do when the Internet gets banned? Also, perhaps we should discuss the eventual hostile takeover of Earth by the Greys. (Read More)
News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters
Posted by timothy on Sunday June 11, @10:37PM
from the slashdot.org dept
Linux? XFree86 apache perl free-speech. Computer cases, Microsoft DMCA penguin hard disk. LiViD! Robots, corel debian stallman. ESR java athlon? PNG mozilla mars, battlefield earth OpenBSD beowulf cluster, python NSA hacker Quake III. Transmeta, gnome. UK virus windows; Playstation celeron Star Wars. First post.
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I like to watch.
Everyone knows that Macs are the best way to bring down a space station :)
--
Tarkwyn.
I wonder how they will be dealing with radiation. The G4 isn't rad-hard by any means.
Are satellites even subjected to the radiation of space? I suppose it depends on altitude, but as far as I am aware, satellites are beyond any radiation-protecting layers of atmosphere, and thus exposed to the radiation of space.
- MaineCoon
Hunt your preferred prey at Aliens vs Predator MUD. Join the war at avpmud.com port 4000
Is this the beginning of a series of satellites shot down for they imitate the design of iSat?
The article mentions that they are testing assembly and resilience procedures primarily in this flight - I wonder how the construction of a standard Apple G4 Mac relates to this, specifically?
I've often enjoyed the process of opening up my G4 for whatever reason, and marvelling at the design - are there specific aspects to Apples design, component-wise, which make the G4 an ideal test platform for this companies satellite assembly program? Unfortunately the article is a little light on details... perhaps some SilVal slashdotters who have more details about this group could shed some details?
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Wow, thanks for the excellent link! That's a very intriguing presentation ... and you're right, the sponsor is quite interesting! Wonder what they're going to do with that, eh? (Can you say supercomputer?)
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
-Tonight, Pinky, we'll take over the world. All we need is to take control over that G4 in space and then we'll use Illustrator program to send subliminal messages all over the world that will force everyone who uses Mac on Earth that, I, Brain is the ruller! This plan must work, since the current ruller used an inferior OS to do the same thing...
-Narf! Didn't DOJ find it illegal and broke his empire into twine?
-No Pinky, it was all part of The Plan!
You can't handle the truth.
However, this brings up another issue. Can nations on Earth who do have legal jurisdiction over the satellite base stations within their territory, be able to impose sanctions against, or intercept data transfers being made from these satellite servers? Will intelligence agencies (such as the CIA) start manufacturing military satellites that will be able to perform Denial of Service attacks on other satellite servers or perform even more sinister acts such as hacking and EMP attacks?
The possibility of satellite servers will surely usher another new age in the war for and against the lack of national jurisdiction over data on the internet.
-- "I can't tell the future, I just work there." -- The Doctor
Satellite factories in space - now *that's* a great idea. Makes total sense - just ship up the raw materials by Shuttle, reducing flight costs (no wear-and-tear for launch design required), and put 'em together in space.
Excellent idea, and if this program succeeds I figure that this is probably one of the first industrialization steps for space - which will then lead to further expansion into space in general.
Very exciting stuff - I've made mental note to follow this experiment closer next year when it launches.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Talk about your unltimate web page defacement, I'm sure usenet will be buzzing with script kiddies looking for Mac hacks tomarrow.
As I recall, it was a Mac that gave the alien mothership the virus in Independance Day.
Surprising really - I would've thought Windows would be the best for passing on virii - maybe running Outlook =)
They're not 'normal', dude.
... and only just recently was a Pentium processor even used.
They're usually 6 or 7 years behind the rest of the computer industry in terms of processing power, because of the complexities required to keep a processor running in space - by the time all the other 'packaging' problems have been solved for a specific processor to fly in space, processor design has moved on - so you end up with older Intel and Motorola chips being used in current modern satellite programs.
This is evident in the Shuttle, for example - they're still using IBM Thinkpad 486 laptops in the shuttle, because these are the only ones that have undergone the stress testing required by NASA to endure the flight
I believe the Shuttle itself uses much simpler processors - I don't know the details, but I am under the impression that a lot of the compute systems on the Shuttle are using processors from the mid-80's, such as the Mot 68k, Intel 386/486's, etc.
So, the point of all this, is that it's actually exciting that a company is considering using a *modern* computing platform for space experiments. My first impulse when reading this article, in fact, was to wonder just what is the fastest/most powerful processor that's ever made it into space - perhaps this G4 will be it. Who knows?
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Oh, to break the myth once and for all: The Army's 800.00 hammers were made of beryllium for use near klystrons. Beryllium is tougher than steel, nonferrous and very expensive. Since a klystron is made of glass, surrounded by a magnet that will suck in a normal tool falling within 2 feet of it and costs upwards of 8 grand... well the $800.00 hammer seems like a good deal all of the sudden.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.