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Corel Claims That The Worst Is Over
Navarre writes: "Looks like Cowpland is on spin control now. Our least favorite Linux representative is now claiming that all's well in the Ottawa-based Corel. The story is here. Supposedly $25 mill in the bank and stable. Funny, but I just heard more people here in Ottawa had been laid off. Go fig. I hope Cowpland's correct though, since I have a friend trying to get work there." Maybe one of these days I'll write a huge feature on why Corel's financial difficulties had nothing to do with their Open Source strategy.
What Corel really needs to do is code the apps NATIVELY, and then use an emulation/porting library/compatibility layer to port to Windows.
Why? It's clear that they can't break the Windows lock on office-type software. Thus, they need to try and make the Linux software a priority. Using libwine (or even running it hosted under Wine, wich is what I heard Corel Office does) is just unacceptable. It's inherently buggy, not because Wine sucks, but because it's an ENRMOUS task to re-implement the huge and muddled Win32 library.
If Corel would simply junk the existing code and rewrite it to use QT/KDE or GTK/GNOME, they'd be a lot better off. It doesn't make sense to focus your efforts on an emulated/compaitibility mode-enabled pieces of software.
So I say to Corel: focus on Linux and provide compatibility to Windows - you'll have a lot better product!
I have to say that as regards Graphics & Illustration CorelDraw8 is second to none. I haven't used Freehand or Illustrator since I discovered Corel 3 and haven't looked back.
True, photopaint is a poor substitute for photoshop, but it's got quite a few nice features and with a little more effort on intuitive features it would win my vote.
Plus the pricing of corels products is excellent. As a student I think I can now buy their entire product line for a few hundred quid.
Also I wish they would get a move on with Linux versions because much as i like linux, personally I dont think it has enough application support to use as a Desktop OS, and corel do seem to be the only large vendor making inroads with this.
I really do feel sorry for corel and the position they are in, and i'm pissed the proposed Borland/Inprise merger fell through, because that would really have generated a company with all the market sectors to rival microsoft... and enough dominance to slowly break down microsofts 'standards'.
Whilst CorelLinux has a long way to go, what with a decent set of graphics and office apps from corel, decent RAD development tools from Borland & Gnu, decent Interface from kde/gnome, and windows binary compatibility from wine - we'd have everything to start attacking M$.
Cockroach theory explains why Corel's stock price is in the dumper . On Wall Street we say:
Like cockroaches, there is rarely just one adverse earnings surprise.
So a company like Corel that has let some ugly critters slip out of the cupboard and onto the quarterly statements is assumed to have more. Until Corel supplies a steady stream of rising earnings (meaning at least 3 quarters), don't expect Wall Street to embrace the stock.
"one treats others with courtesy not because they are gentlemen or gentlewomen, but because you are" --G. Henrichs
I think what you're talking about is a problem with branding. It's not so much what Corel *does*, it how people *percieve* the company.
...high-end software that only amateurs buy."
"rescued orphanware, shovelware,
Image matters, and Corel's isn't so hot.
But do perceptions match reality? I would argue that they don't. I've used Wordperfect, Coreldraw, and Corelpaint. I've also used their competitive cousins. Sure, you can tick off products feature by feature, bug by bug, and you will find differences - on both sides of the fence.
I would submit that Corel has an excellent stable of products, for excellent prices. The irony is that that is not enough, because people are dumb herd animals who rarely act independantly of their peers. "There must be reason everyone uses Photoshop, right?" Bzzzt - wrong. Everyone uses Photoshop (or Word, or Freehand, et al.) because they don't have the time, patience, inclination, or ability to think for themselves. No, I'm not knocking you for using these products. I'm just saying that most people never even consider that it might be worthwhile to try something else. Why bother?
Just look at how bad Microsoft's products and behaviour had to get before people started to wake up to the realization that "hmm, maybe there are alternatives".
Great products with "ugly ads, ugly packaging, and lowball pricing". And that's enough to tank them. Very sad. And probably very true.
So what's the moral of this story? What do we learn? Overcharge, because you will gain customer confidence? Don't develop products that only work w/ 95% of the consumer base? Throw struggling products, projects, and developers in the garbage? If you can't obtain majority market share, don't even bother? If you can't become a billionare, resign and go sell insurance? Please Wall Street or die? If your neighbor's in trouble, look the other way? Actually, no, maybe kick him in the shins?
Number one lesson of the day: Make sure you have pleasing packaging.
My mind feels numb.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
Up until I went off to college, 1997, WP Suite still owned more than 50% of the business office market. MS Office 95 had just under 40%, and Lotis had roughly 10%.
Disclamer - Opinion of Person
Corel can't market their way out of a paper bag. They've got ugly ads, ugly packaging and lowball pricing that undermines confidence in the product.
Add to that a product strategy that seems to involve implementing features nobody ever asked for because they have orphaned technologies lying around, while leaving gnawing feature gaps intact year after year.
They're a slowly sinking ship. Their brand is synonymous with rescued orphanware, with shovelware, and with high-end software that only amateurs buy. It's one thing to be a niche vendor. It's quite another when the only niches you dominate are for word processing software for law offices, and graphic designers who have no money.
"Wow, we were really all over the news there for a while. ZDNet had daily stories about us, The Register kept running headlines like 'The End of Corel'. Even Linux Journal kept running advertisements, I mean 'articles', about us. But the worst appears to be over--you'll finally be able to read a Linux-related news story without any mention of me or my company."
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
in dos, try fdisk /mbr
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
Agreed! Give me WP 5.1 on a 286 and a 40MB HD, and I'll be in heaven for writing papers. :-) And I'm not being even a tad sarcastic. I used to run WP 4.2 on a Tandy 1000 (the original 4.77MHz 8088 version), cached entirely in a RAM disk and booted from a 360K floppy. The whole thing booted up in less time than a modern PC, and was more responsive as well. WP 5.1 really did just improve on a good thing.
ObRant: I would kill for a Reveal Codes option for Microsoft Word, so that I don't need to "sacrifice letters" to get to one side or the other of a format-change boundary. And, no, "Show All" doesn't do what I want/need.
--Joe--
Program Intellivision!
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm not heading out to buy Corel stock because they say that the worst is over. I think that if Corel wants to let everyone know that they're going to make it, they need to go out there and prove it.
kwsNI
It is up to the liquidators to decide. If they do fall over of course.
IMHO they deserve to fall over. This ugly bulshit of releasing a barely working wine linked build and calling it a full productivity environment deserves to die. It is a technological downward spiral. From bad to worse:
In btw: Soffice since version 3 is going down the same route. From bad to worse.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
How curious. I just ordered the Ventura demo CD from them. Their 1-800 service was beyond excellent. I also had an EMail exchange with someone in the training department, concerning a bug on one of their web pages. His response, too, was professional, polite and helpful. Finally, I've cruised their private newsgroups: their CS reps in those groups are also providing excellent service.
What leads you to say that their customer service is poor?
Their marketing... now *that* I'd agree is poor!
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I've developed a stock market theory that will earn anyone a million dollars in a month.
:-)
Purchase Corel stock on the even days.
Sell it on the odd days.
If you look at its performance charts, the damn stock bounces up and down more than a hooker on an over-inflated airbed.
Every even day, it soars 10%.
Every odd day, it drops 10%.
So, basically, you're increasing your money at 10% a day, if you buy low and sell high. Doesn't take long to parlay your initial $500 investment into a million!
Disclaimer: I have no money invested in Corel, I am not an investment analyst, and I haven't performed adequate research into this stock market theory. However, a quick eyeball of the charts seems to indicate that Corel stock just may be the ideal day-trader's pick.
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Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Corel's product evolved from two separate companies' products (Borland Quattro and Paradox, WordPerfect) and really never had the advantage of good integration during the critical days before Microsoft locked up the suite market.
I have a couple things to say about this. First, WordPerfect, and the suites that contained it, held the market until MS Office 97 came out. MS Office 97 was the first to break conversions, force upgrades from 95, and force the OEM's to bundle it.
MS Office 97 was also the first of the MS Offices where Excel finally was exceedingly better than Quattro Pro. Until Quattro Pro 9, very little had been done to Quattro Pro because it had been such a good product and no one wanted to break it. Unfortunately when Excel could boast drastic improvements over Quattro Pro, that placed a gaping hole in WP Office. The other products, WP, Presentations, Paradox, etc..., were roughly equal or only slightly better, but when the weakest link is the spreadsheet then people will turn elsewhere.
Another major problem occured because of Novell. Anyone who was a WP fan and tried using Novell WP Suite 6 with NT knows exactly what that problem is. Novell saw NT 4.0 as the enemy, mainly because like Novell servers, NT 4.0 servers gain performance increases by placing most of their calls at rung zero. WP had the marketshare in the office products at that time, and Novell in their infinite wisdom believe that they could kill NT by not porting WP over. Novell was ignorant about the fact that MS Office 95 was a good product (one of Microsofts few), it was stable, as powerful as WP, and compatable. Even after they started to lose marketshare hand over fist to Office 95 they didn't budge. Eventually they sold WP Suite 6 to Corel, who spent quite a bit of time working on a port to NT.
Corel isn't without its stupid mistakes though. A couple years ago when Java was first starting to take off they tried to port the entire WP suite over to Java. This was in the Java 1.0 stages, it didn't have printer support yet! Whoops.
It was nothing about integration that killed WP Office. I have used WP sence WP 5 for DOS, and used Novell WP Office 6, and Corel WP Offices 7, and 8. I have seen it fall from its glory days, and I know why it has. I have even just recently ordered WP 2000 for Linux, to support the company and to get a good office product for my home machine.
I give Corel until New Year's. Max.
I agree that they probably won't survive, but I would give them until begining to mid 1st quarter. After which WP will probably just move over to another companies hands.
Corel is placing their entire companies future into Linux. They are porting everything that they have, during which time they are giving need support to the WINE team, and PR. If or when they die it will be a sad day.
Disclamer - Opinion of Person
What make this guy think he can speak for all of us. Why would I consider Corel to be my least favorite distro? Most people don't don't install and uninstall every linux distro there is, then choose which is their favorite and which is their least.
They have never been much good at Customer Service. They have been stretching themselves too thin - and it shows in their financial status... I too hope that they can pull the company out of the slow spiral it was in...
They recently merged their CVS trees with the wine developers as well, and credit them in all of their Linux ports, which is extremely cool...
Despite the fact that they were going down anyway many people will still see this as evidence the open source business model doesn't work.
They have also done a lot of good work on wine so I definitely hope that they'll survive and ultimately do well, however I've heard a lot of people saying that it's they're management that are bringing them down so if that's the case there may be no hope for them, and if it is the case we have to make sure people understand it wasn't because they were promoting free software.
Given good management and a good product it's definitely possible to make money from free software it's just in other areas than selling the software, but most of you know that anyway.
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Think about it, Corel would get a lot of kudos from the open source community, they could quickly have the best word processor for Linux and other (non MS) platforms and then they could start edging back in to the Windows market.
Not everything you read is true. :)
I think that Corel's biggest problem is itself. For as long as I can remember, the company has had some sort of finicial problem, doom seems to always be around this company. Although it does somehow manage to keep going. I'm not sure how though. :)
One only has to look at the Netwinder to realize that his company has some serious marketing issues. The Netwinder was a good product at a reasonable price (at least when they first came out) but they never gave it the push that it need in the market area, and it has now taken a backseat just about everything else.
Now that Corel has taken such an interest in the Open Source area, people are now going to attempt to plan open source on their troubles? Corel had troubles BEFORE taking on open source, I recall articles with themes of "Corel last ditch hope","Corel embracing Linux in hopes of changing Market Share", etc.
Corel has and always has had, more problems then what the surface shows, I only hope the correct things before open source is given the blame. Other than that, I'll just keep running WP6.1 for dos in dosemu
Corel's flagship product used to be CorelDraw from day one, and with reason because it kicked every other app's ass. But now with their focus set on Linux, they betrayed their own corporate image.
What kind of business sets aside a long-standing successful product line in favor of an operating system that's still in its infancy and not at all ready to enslave the masses ? The answer is simple : a Michael Cowpland business. He's the only CEO crazy enough to gamble with such high stakes. Is he an idiot for doing so ? Maybe at first glance, but if you take a peek into his history you'll find out how this kind of radical decision making is what led him to staggering success time and time again. He's a corporate gambler; he wins some, he loses some, but he definitely knows how to play the game.
I'm no business strategist or whatever they call those spin doctors these days, but Corel without Cowpland is absolute nonsense. We should be looking up to him for his devotion and bravery. He's not your run-of-the-mill suit-sucking idiot like many of you seem to think.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I work for major (fairly) graphics company which makes a range of large format outputting devices. being in tech support I come in contact with our customers none stop and a surprising amount have endoursed Corel. though traditionally free hand, quarc, illustrator and photoshop have been concidered the tools of professionals, Corel since Corel Draw 7 has made a very usable and productive graphics sweet for signifiantly less that Adobe. you figure Corel Draw suite (draw and photopaint) costs about $300+ where Adobe illustrator Alone is over $400, then you need illustrator for vector art another $400. In up and coming graphics houses this is a cost effective solution. Not to mention there success with importing varied formats successfully. the graphics market uses a combination of raster/vector art, for digital printing, and also vector art for dimensional work, suprisingly cad type work. This I think gives them a big push. If they contine to improve the prduct, but not raise prices they have hope. Regarding the Word perfect suite. as stated in another post they have to overcome MS Office in the MS world and star office (free non commercial) in the Linux world. The company is a risk taking company which I think is a big plus. with the big push for linux desktop machines they have managed to position themselves right in the middle, which though risky is a nice place to be if linux does decide to boom.
I think a lot of people in the Ottawa area look down on the company because of the management. Let's not forget the whole Netwinder issue. Corel built these things, and then sold them to Rebel. Those things just kick ass! Corel tried to fit in the Windows industry, but that just wasn't happening since everyone's pretty much accustomed to Word, and the MS Office products. Now in a scramble to stay a float on the market, they've shifted their goals towards Linux. But we have to remember that most people (although it's increasing) do not use Linux. So we've got a company producing a non-major distribution (before RedHat and Mandrake) for a non-major OS. Then there is the way they actually hire. They are big into outsourcing and external contractors, "hire them and fire them". They seem to think that this saves money. Everyone I've talked to do not enjoy working at Corel for the most part. And then there's his wife. Woooohoooooo. There's just another story all together :) But, I've seem them pull the most amazing crap out of their back pockets, so this might not be the end. I think they're just a little lost in what the company should be doing. They're having problems finding their "niche" in the market. If they don't find it soon though, I still think there will be enough captial out there from some stupid company to finance another one of their endeavours.
I've seen replies tout that in order for a company to get into "our" good graces, they will have to run to open source... in my opinion, that is total bullshit. Yes, it has been proven that an "open-source-centric" business model can work. The company that will survive however is the company that can adapt for example:
IBM scrambled to get Windows on their Netfinity servers, for those companies who insist they cant use anything else... but they are investigating, behind the scenes how to have these same servers compatible with other OSes, therefore whenever Microsoft cannot provide that foothold into the market, they get dropped like a hot sack of potatoes (now whether or not Microsoft will get to this point is another discussion).
Apple, in all its wisdom, realized that if they want to give everyone access to that one of a kind user experience they will have to make their major product (the MacOS) more general purpose, so they made the kernal (which has got a lot of people excited) open source, to bring in a fresh perspective. Of course, Steve would run Apple in the ground if Aqua were also totally so!
One thing we have to give Microsoft credit for, is when they realized they were behind, that something explosive was about to hit the scene that they didn't have, they ran to ensure that they would provide it first, regardless of whether or not they would have gotten to that point as soon. They adapted, and the companies that couldn't adapt with them ("ahem! Assume the kiss ass position!") got separated like chaff in the wind and suffered greatly.
Corel still has a few ropes to learn about who and what they want to please as well as how quickly to adapt. Hopefully they are on the right path. There are things I have like about WP that I wouldn't want to go away, but to be improved, it will be interesting if they listen.
Nuff Respec'
DeICQLady
7D3 CPE
Virtually every market Corel plays in is a market dominated by another company, relegating them to a poor number 2. Their platform strategy has also been very uneven.
For instance:
Corel WordPerfect Office: on Windows it competes with Microsoft Office. Unlike MS Office, Corel's product evolved from two separate companies' products (Borland Quattro and Paradox, WordPerfect) and really never had the advantage of good integration during the critical days before Microsoft locked up the suite market. Not to mention that they bought the WP Office product from Novell who had failed with it, and WordPerfect before that.
CorelDraw: It's probably their best stand-alone product, and the software they made their reputation with. But it's really tough nowadays to compete with Adobe and Macromedia (Illustrator and Freehand), not to mention that Corel's Mac support has been lacking (they alternate between neglect and religion), and the draw market is one where cross-platform compatibiliy and parity have always been critical.
Corel PhotoPaint: See CorelDraw. But it's Photoshop that croaks them there.
Corel Ventura Publisher: Another formerly market-leading product that waited too long to improve, got croaked, and then bought by Corel.
On Windows, Corel had a few good products, but got hurt by some QA issues (buggy releases of WordPerfect and CorelDraw in the past), and they specialize in marketing products that are all past their peaks. They killed off the cross-platform support of WordPerfect (one of WordPerfect's competitive strengths was that it ran on virtually every platform, now it runs on Windows and Linux - the Mac version and all the other platform versions are dead). They pinned all their hopes on a rapid transition to Linux, which has yet to happen. And they'll probably run out of cash before it happens.
Something else that's an issue in the death of a company is perception. People now see Corel as doomed - and their limited cash is forcing them out of events like PC Expo and MacWorld where they could at least try to make themselves look viable. Not to mention that their advertising has dried up, making it worse. I just hope somebody with a clue winds up with these products after Corel hits the FC hall of infamy. The only thing that might turn it around at this point is if Cowpland steps down and puts somebody in with tons of credibility in the industry. Novell got a few very good years with Eric Schmidt (though they're slipping back some now that Win2K is out of vapor), and Jobs saved Apple. I'm not sure who could bail out Corel, but it's sure not Cowpland and they're running out of time fast.
I give Corel until New Year's. Max.
- -Josh Turiel
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
It took me something like two months to get my WordPerfect rebate. Bought it in March, got the rebate in May. About the same amount of time it took me to get the rebate on my Voodoo video card, actually. Usually rebates aren't handled directly by the company whose product you're buying, though, so I don't think we can blame Corel for this one. IIRC, the check I got was from someplace in Arizona.
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Someone you trust is one of us.
Corel has taken a big chance on Linux, and so far they've spent a lot of time and money without earning anything back. WordPerfect and Photo Paint are excellent, but are being given away free. WINE isn't a commercial product. Corel Linux is still very new and is being piffed by the Linux die-hards as "Linux for weenies." It will come around, but it will take time.
Remember, Corel is a decent sized company with bills to pay. It isn't the same as a freebie consulting service that eventually earned a reputation and the ability to charge money. The latter is more typical of Linux-oriented businesses.
...they release a fast, stable, and reasonably bug-free Linux version of Corel Draw.
Once that happens, the cash cow has arrived.
But if it's clunky, flaky, bloated, and slow, then we're in for another round of "We're not dead yet!"
Note for those who view Corel's involvement with WINE as evidence of a high probablility of "bloated and slow" - there are two ways to use WINE: The first is "not an emulator mode", where a WINE process runs a native Windows binary and handles all the OS calls - this is more likely than not to be sub-optimal. The second is to compile Windows source code against libwine, which is a native-Linux shared object that provides the Windows API.
The first method is a massive (if nifty) hack, and I'd never expect to see any real production application depending on it. The second method is more like building a toolkit app, like a Motif of GTK app - only in this case, the toolkit is the Windows API. If Corel is building Corel Draw for Linux based on the libwine method, the results are likely to be pretty good.
Even better would be a native GTK version of Corel Draw, but a libwine version is completely acceptable, assuming acceptable libwine performance. Running Draw under WINE "emulation" though, is not acceptable, at least not to me.
Corel, are you listening?
Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
It installed pretty much without a hitch on my Compaq Armada 1590DMT Pentium 166MMX 48megs laptop. However, initial experience has been somewhat disappointing. It's been much slower than Windows 95 (which really surprises me) and Word Perfect looks like MSWord97's bitch. Unless I got a stripped down version, WP sucks (lack of fonts, features, options). Hopefully, Star Office will be an improvement. Also, little things, like not being able to turn off "tapping" for the touchpad make this user's experience less satisfying.
It looks like I'm going to (reluctantly) continue using Windows as my primary OS. I HATE Windows, but when it isn't crashing, or slow, it does what I need my computer to do. Linux (Corel Linux, anyway), just doesn't seem quite ready. For someone who does no programming, isn't running a server, and doesn't need a multi-user environment, Linux feels "not quite ready for prime-time." I fully intend to learn more about Linux - try other distributions (recommendations?), watch it grow, but for now, I'm stuck using Windows. Damn.
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--Hey Doctor Jones! No time for love!
I'm constantly amazed at the number of posters on /. whose answer to everything is open sourcing something. I have nothing but respect for both open source and Free Software, but realism dictates that open sourcing one of the few applications that Corel actually manages to sell decent volume of, "wouldn't be prudent at this juncture."
The problem is, Corel isn't a Linux company. Tack on a "yet" to that last sentence if you believe, as many do, that Corel will be making Linux a topmost priority. Corel is a Windows applications company, and in the Windows world, the idea of open source or Free Software hasn't taken hold yet. Few in the Windows world, for instance, would pay for WordPerfect Office Suite if they could download it for free, while in the Linux world there are many people who would purchase their favorite distro in a boxed set even after they've downloaded it. Windows users are too used to having to pay ungodly high prices for every piece of software they own, to give much thought on how to compensate a company which has just given them something free. Software is still very much a commodity, a good to be purchased, to a typical Windows user--if you don't make him either go to the store and buy it, or enter a credit card # for a paid download, but instead let him freely download something, you're not going to get any money even if he uses it every day.
As for businesses, they wouldn't pay for a WordPerfect Office Suite which they could get for free, either. Unlike Linux companies as service companies, Corel wouldn't have any services to offer--office applications are pretty damned straightforward; there's little configuration to be done, and even a clueless newbie can figure out a word processing proggie in record time. In other words, Corel would have no source of revenue from WordPerfect Office, whereas now they have a small-compared-to-MS Office but still very tangible cashflow from it.
Netscape/Mozilla was another matter, entirely--there was essentially little choice but to open source the browser, since Microsoft was now giving one away for free and very, very few people were buying Netscape any more. Therefore it made economic sense to give away what you couldn't sell, anyway.
While it would be nice if Corel would open source WordPerfect, and it would benefit both the Linux community and all users in general (MS Office sales would start taking a huge dent, yay!), it wouldn't be in Corel's best interest to do it, and so there's zero chance of it happening unless Corel gets bought out by a *real* Linux company.
On a side note, I applaud Corel for their attempts to make a Linux distro easy enough for a Windows user to transition to, but they made things damned complicated in order to do it. I installed Corel Linux 1.0, and when I couldn't even get X to load in standard SVGA mode, I decided to just uninstall it. That worked, but left their customized version of LILO in the boot sector, the fancy graphical menu version Corel made, and it hung my machine when it realized that Linux was no longer there. I couldn't boot the damned thing at all, and no keystrokes in the world could bypass the thing. Finally I had to install Mandrake 6.1, whose own normal copy of LILO bypassed Corel's monstrosity, and then my system could boot again. Corel, be careful until you have more Linux experience...
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*