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Ericsson And Red Hat In Home Communications
Inforum writes: "From the Ericsson Web site: 'Ericsson and Red Hat announced a strategic initiative to develop a new range of consumer products and services for home communications.
They will develop consumer products combining existing industry standards, such as Java, and the latest open source technologies, such as Embedded Red Hat Linux. The products will also support existing and evolving standards such as broadband networking and Bluetooth ...'
Then I wonder: what will happen to Symbian?"
Yeah, but given the choice, _I_ would rather lug only one device around, thank you. ;-)
I've already got rid of my text pager by getting SMS on my PCS phone, if I could get rid of the PDA by having more functions added to the phone, I'd go for it.
>I would rather see a PDA that I can talk on like a phone than a phone that acts as a PDA though.
Yep, me to! I'm hoping when 3rd generation wireless networks are built, we'll see devices that are essentialy PDA's that can send/receive Short message, e-mail, browse, etc. but can also function as VoIP phones. I've already got used to the slim earpiece/mic set idea, so having a device like this in a phone form-factor is not required (I would think).
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
a) It really depends on volume. If it sales like hot cakes, then the prices will go lower (Ericsson is not M$ after all).
b) require some fairly extensive changes to the house.
b) The reason why Ericsson is interested in home appliances (the French call it domotique which is a nice name) is that with "in-house" telecommunications, you don't need to put cables everywhere.
But it is true that the first such appliances will probably be very expensives.
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
Probably nothing. Right now everyone is going wireless (With good reason) and looking at the best way forward. Linux has a large set of developer support which will help them in any sphere, but equally Symbian have the expertise and the parteners to work.
Personally (oh how dare I) I think that Symbian with their wealth of experience in this market are in a better position than Red Hat. What ever happens however one thing is pretty much for sure:
The wireless future belongs to Europe, its there that the next generation of communication devices will be deployed and developed. Especially with the hold up to G3 phones in the States.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
There shouldn't be a coffee maker within a 5 mile radius that doesn't have at least 128 Megs of RAM.
This is a big misunderstanding of the JINI concept. Not every device needs to run a virtual machine of its own, that was of course taken into consideration. You can connect simple things like a light switch (just two states) or a coffee machine to some 'mediator device' which is then connected to the network. Sorry, it's been a while, I don't have any links on this.
Will it run on a Crusoe chip?
Scratch that; a better question would be "WHEN will we see anything that will run on a Crusoe chip?"
Embedded Linux sounds like a great idea for a lot of applications, and so do portable low-power devices with pretty flat screens.
(but I want an Oompa Loompa NOW!)
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
It doesn't need an OS. It will even run faster without one. Trust me. Solid state is MUCH faster than software, generally speaking.
... an OS
And it's also less flexible and upgradeable, not to mention non-Open Source. But I'm sure that you (and everyone else) has their own opinions on the question of what should be software and what should be hardware.
My photocopier does not need to run windows. Even if it is networked, it still doesn't need
Surely you don't think that modern printers are implemented entirely in hardware, do you? Apple's first laser printer had a more powerful CPU than the computers that used it.
My phone of today is much more complex, technically speaking, than the one I used 10 or 15 years ago. It also has a lot more useful functions (caller id, phone book, etc). That sort of thing really requires a software rather than hardware approach. Modern devices need to be more powerful, flexible, and most of all, connectable. If that means a CPU and embedded Linux, so be it.
-- Floyd
-- Floyd
Sure there is demand. One really good example i can think of is home cinema products.
:)
I don't know if you've ever tried to integrate multple home cinema products from multiple manufacturers, but it's a royal pain in the ass. I have a TV, VCR, Cable Decoder, DVD player, Surround Stereo, and of course the computer.
Most of these devices use slightly diferent standards (For example, my cable box & DVD can output a clean RGB signal, my VCR only does composite - Meaning i have to manually adjust the colour & brightness each time), and a multitude of connectors and cables. I also have a total of six remotes controls (Two just for the stereo/AMP) The only way the computer is connected to the whole setup is via. a line from the soundcard to the stereo.
What if all of these products worked to a singal standard. Physically, i'd love to have just one (Or perhaps two) types of connector, that can connect all of my hardware together. Then stick something like Jini on top of the standard hardware, and now my hardware can all talk to each other. No need for those six remotes any more, my DVD player will tell the Amp to switch it's inputs automatically. My computer can now become a much more integral component. Hell, i can even connect my stereo directly to the internet, and recieve Netcast radio, or download MP3's on demand. Or connect my TV/VCR to the internet, and download streaming video. Do away with the VCR completly, and i can record from the Cable Box onto the computer.
Phew Anyway, if you managed to follow any of that, you'll get my point. Integration can only be a Good Thing. I can't wait
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Umm so we replace the JVM with "an embedded Linux version" so we are still using Java here as a programing language I'd assume.
Jini is far from dead, just because a press release doesn't mention Jini doesn't mean it won't be using it. The press release didn't mention using the english language but I'd be will to bet Ericsson will support it.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
I really really hope that they can pull it off. Right now we have crap for an imbedded linux distro. Yeah we have lineo - an opensource/closed cource option that leaves me with a really bad taste. And I've been seeing so-called embedded distros that are huge! If your "embedded" linux is larger than a old slackware release then something is very wrong (I want 2-8 meg installs 16 if you install the compiler/libs/kernel source/etc...
On a side note though, has anyone found a good "embedded" linux distro that is installable by the normal linux user (no building the filesystem by hand)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Having visited Ericsson's show-home recently, I was actually pretty impressed with the direction they are taking. Although they have one of the (in)famous Internet Fridges installed, this is actually one of the least important bits of kit they have.
:-)
The majority of their focus at the moment seems to be on intelligent home automation systems - such things that might be found in a care home for instance, to help improve quality of life for the elderly or infirm. Such things as intelligent alarm systems, devices to control that electrical appliances are switched off when they should be, lighting systems with usage patterns and simple IR-based on-off routines. The emphasis is on using existing technology and making it simple and easy to use.
I think that Linux would be a good step forward in this, inasmuch as it is freely and easily customisable for new applications. Who needs Windows for embedded systems?
On the more nerdy side, I look forward to these technologies filtering out of the lab and into MY home
"Give the anarchist a cigarette"
A little planning goes a long way...
That's cool, I'm sure that I could have all sorts of fun writing programs for all that hardware, but what APPLICATIONS do they plan on doing with all this gear/software? They make phone's daggonit.
Eh...
I _hate_ to be a karma whore, but I saw this post just as I was checking out Ericssons stock (ERICY) on yahoo quotes.
:(
/nutt
CBS MarketWatch
C|net News.com
This doesnt make me a karma whore, does it?
After all, there are _no_ links to media coverage in the article. o well..
Enjoy the links...
While I'm sure some Java programmers will be thrilled to see the inclusion of that language in the list, it's equally important to notice what they aren't using, namely Jini. The idea behind Jini is that any device on a network will be able to discover and talk to any other device, through the use of Java programs running on an embedded JVM. While an interesting concept, it has failed completely.
OTOH, I think that that method is clearly the way of the future. Plug 'n play has vastly simplified the installation of new hardware: systems like Red Hat's kudzu can autodetect and install stuff automatically. Imagine if your network could do the same. Wirelessly. Bring your laptop in a room, and you can instantly communicate with other computers and peripherals, such as printers or scanners. Apple has something very much like that, and I think that Open Source is seriously lagging behind.
Jini would be a good idea, but I think we can discard the JVM and replace it with an embedded Linux version. Remove the dependency on Java, and a whole new world opens up. Sun can only lock new technology into it's languages and platforms for so long.
-- Floyd
-- Floyd
... is something we've been hearing about for a long time - remember those old 50s shows that portrayed everyone in silver suits sitting around in uncomfortable looking chairs whilst unlikely-looking robots catered for our every need :) And yet the average house of today is little different from what it was 30 years ago - there are more gadgets but its still the same idea.
Now we have several companies offering us amazing new products which will turn our houses into networks constantly linked to the outside world through broadband connections. But the thing I wonder is - is the demand there yet?
For sure there'll be those of us who like gadgets - most of /. for instance - for whom a setup like this will be almost irresitable. But for the average homeowner having all of this is still somewhat redundant - they just don't need an entire house connected via wireless links. As of now there isn't any real need for having your fridge/cooker/whatever connected to the rest of the house. Sure, there are advantages, but not enough for anyone to lay out the kind of money this will take.
So apart from a few of us who like flashy new equipment, the take-up of this kind of technology will most likely to be pretty slow. Still, if it gets built into new houses then it'll gradually become the norm, but I don't think it'll become the next "must have" thing.
What happens when an appliance running Embedded Red Hat Linux has a security hole? Let's say it is a refrigerator...for the sake of privacy you wouldn't really want anyone in the world to see what you eat on a daily basis......
So how would you be able to upgrade the refrigerator's OS? Flash BIOS would be inconvenient, even if they were automatically updated, because it leaves a big margin for errors on Red Hat's side...if they rush out a security fix or are lazy writing one and it is buggy, how would someone like my mother be able to fix it?
Remember....Most people that buy these once they become mainstream will be computer literate in the worst way......
1. This is great news. Linux needs Bluetooth and other micro-pico networking, wireless and embedded technologies. The market needs more intelligent devices, and M$ had already shown that they are NOT up to the challenge (WinCE was a stop-gap and PocketPC just crashed during a demo, sorry no link)
2. This is bad news if they're not released in source form. A strategic partnership with a hardware company may swing both ways. Either Ericsson won't care about the availability of source code, since hardware butters their bread; or more likely they'll try to go with a more 'proven' model of propretary, binary only (or ROM) distribution.
3. This is bad news if it's a partnership with Red Hat and not a full-on support of Linux by Ericsson. Red Hat is just another distro, but with all the 'partnerships' it's been forming lately, intercompatibility of anything non-Free with other distributions may soon become a problem.
4. This is bad news for the Linux purist. Linus/Transmeta is working on a portable kernel as it is. While 'portable' and 'embedded' are certainly not the same, they're closer than 'embedded' and 'easy to use desktop' - the later being the core of RH's business. It's early in the game still, but there may be a conflict of interest brewing between Red Hat+Ericsson and Transmeta.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
I live in a house in Woodland Hills, California, an extremely hot part of the world. It will probably get above 100degF today.
Obviously I don't want to walk into a 110degF house when I get home, so I leave the air conditioner running continuously. This is expensive (about $ 200 a month), but ensures that, whenever I get home, I will walk into a cool, comfy house.
If I owned the house (instead of renting), I'd probably get a timer to automatically turn on the air conditioner before I got back home. So at 5:00 pm, it would switch itself on, and by 5:30 when I got home, all would be cool.
But what if I can't safely predict when I leave? I should be able to call up the air conditioner and tell it to switch on about 30 minutes before my departure. That way, I could save significant amounts of money on electricity over the course of a cooling season. So if I leave at 4:00 or 8:00, or even have lunch at home at 12:00, I should be able to tell my air conditioner to give me a cool, comfortable house no matter what.
That's an application that might well justify the cost of such a system, and it could give significant extra comfort over all solutions other than running the AC continuously.
D
----
In business, you need to be a visionnary to be sucessful.
If you wait until the demand is there, it's too late: someone already jumped on the opportunities. So you don't wait for the demand, you *create* it.
If you create a demand and fullfill it, you'll be succesfull. That's what Ericsson and RedHat want to do.
-Omar
That's odd, I work at Ericsson, and we use FreeBSD for the product we're developing.
Um, actually, Ericsson makes quite a bit more than just plain cell phones. It's always fun to forget this, go to their site and hit the top combo box. It fills the screen with esoteric stuff! ;^) Anyway, I hope these plans (or some plans!) include the idea to add Bluetooth tech to a cell phone, so that it can make calls through some kind of base station while I'm around the house. That would give the best of two worlds from the same phone; low land-line rates while at home, mobile telephony as soon as I step out the door; all using the same handset of course. I've been waiting for this for a number of years now...
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
People have been blindly assuming that red hat and ericsson are going to create pda style machines. However, the press release does not say much about this type of devices (other than that lots of people are going to buy them over the next few years). However, these devices will need to be connected to the (wireless) local network. With ericsson being the inventor of bluetooth and redhat being specalized in server software based on linux, it all makes sense. They are going to develop all sorts of appliances one needs to connect your phones, faxes, webpads and pcs to your home network. This has no consequences for symbian (it might actually benefit) since symbian's OS is targeted at PDA & mobile phones only.
Maybe I'm wrong, in which case I don't expect much of it since just an embedded linux kernel can't replace a platform like EPOC.
Jilles
Writing the code for an embedded product under Linux provides one huge benefit. The embedded OS does not depend on the plans of an outside company for porting to the next hardware platform you choose. And the application should port easily as long as you avoid, or isolate, hardware dependent code. For companies for whom the OS they deliver their product on is a commodity item, open source OSs offer them a measure of control over the future of their product. Any hardware they choose can run the OS if the port is worth the effort. If having Linux run on your next hardware platform is worth enough to pay a few good programmers to do it, Linux will run on that hardware. No one can say no to you.
--
You are a fucking moron.
Well, no offense to Sun, but I can tell you flat out why Jini failed. From day one, I thought that it was, get this, "a crappy idea." Lets see, first, lets take a regularly inexpensive device. Next, lets make it more expensive by adding a CPU to it. Then, lets take that CPU, and make it grind to a halt by running an interpretter on it. Lets make sure that the computing overhead of non-computer devices is as high as possible. There shouldn't be a coffee maker within a 5 mile radius that doesn't have at least 128 Megs of RAM. Then, lets lock everybody into using our technology specifically. Lets make this as big of a pain in the ass for everyone on the implementer side, but since everyone knows JAVA, great fun for hobbyists.
What makes MUCH MUCH MUCH more sense is to ask everyone to follow a common API, but heck, that wouldn't require a product and sales to a company that could REALLY use a boost in their business. (And I LIKE SUN).
No offense, the solution isn't putting a full scale operating system on all of these devices either. These things DON'T NEED SOFTWARE. With software comes a much greater potential to mess things up. There are MANY things in this world that people try to put software on that just don't need them. My photocopier does not need to run windows. Even if it is networked, it still doesn't need windows. It doesn't need Linux, BSD, or QNX either. It doesn't need an OS. It will even run faster without one. Trust me. Solid state is MUCH faster than software, generally speaking.
Make a common API, and you get all of the capabilities, and none of the overhead. I really don't WANT to play pac-man on my cell phone's display. If I did, I would buy a PDA, and play pac-man on it. People need to think a bit more centralized and practically, rather than developing EVERY DAMNED DEVICE into a huge meta-product, concentrate on doing one thing, and doing it well. I turn the sidebar off in Mozilla, because I want a browser, not AIM, not all of that stuff. I turn off ALL OF THAT crap, and MOST OTHER PEOPLE PROBABLY DO TOO.
Eh...
Hmm, I wonder what will happen to Ericssons co-op with Microsoft?a ct/Microsoft_alliance.html
htt p://www.ericsson.com/infocenter/publications/cont
English is not my first language, so cut me some slack -: Om du kan lasa det har sa kan du Svenska
* their own phone OS .. )
* Epoc (the Symbian platform you know
* Windows CE (until they switched to Epoc)
* and now Linux
Ericsson has announced two products using Epoc, the R380 smartphone (soon to be released) and their new Communicator platform (commonly known in the press as "the Palm killer") ... now they announced _one_ product using Linux - and Slashdot authors wonder what happens with Symbian? (Owned by Nokia, Panasonic, Motorola, Ericsson and Psion)
Come on .. please .. reality check? :)
it's in my head