Tivo Hacking A-OK - Says Tivo

s|eeper writes: "C|Net just posted an article about Tivo publicly stating that at this time, they have no problem with people hacking their Tivos to add more disk space."

Comments

Re:More solid information?

[Phil Wherry]

While the article doesn't provide a lot of information to actually support the idea that TiVo doesn't have a problem with upgrade hacking, the fact is that TiVo has been one of the most hacker-tolerant consumer electronics companies I've ever seen. A lot of the credit rests with Richard Bullwinkle, the company's Internet spokesman/evangelist. His recent comments on AVS Forum pretty clearly illustrate the attitude I'm talking about:

Well, I'm sure many of you have been waiting for anything I might say about the "hacking" of TiVo, so let me put on my best Yoda voice, and see if I can spread some wisdom. First, let me give credit where credit is due. That was no easy task, and those guys are pretty stunning engineers to have gotten into the places they did in the first place.

Second, let me give a bit of warning -- more as a friend than a corporate entity. PLEASE BE CAREFUL. TiVo's are not designed to be opened. Anyone who has ever been inside a computer knows that power supplies for user-upgradeable equipment should be covered. TiVo's is not, because it is not designed to be user-upgradeable . I'm not worried about this from a legal perspective, because that little sticker that says "Risk of Electric Shock -- Do Not Open" covers me pretty well in the eyes of the law , but it would break my heart to hear of someone who hurt themselves going inside their TiVo.

Third, make backups. We already know of one thing that is going to affect you guys with the release of 2.0, and we would feel bad if we made your TiVo useless after we changed the software somehow, but we of course would take no financial responsibility for that. We want to keep you happy TiVo customers, but we will not risk relationships with partners or do any special testing to make sure hacked boxes work. The thing we will do that will affect you, that we already know about, is the same thing that makes 2x30 GB machines 60 hours instead of 72. In short, we have never created a box over 30 hours, and any receivers over 30 hours that are out there when we release our new software will have about 12 hours taken away. Any programs within that space will be deleted. Consider this fair warning.

Finally, please be cool about this. We have already taken down AVS with floods about the subject. You don't want to anger people and force them to take action about this.

By the way, as far as hacking goes, don't interfere with the TiVo service. Anyone who tries to steal it, copy it, or modify the way it works in a negative way will receive instant ramifications from TiVo. I don't mean to be a heavy, but that is what puts food on my family's table.

How is that for straight shooting? If you have questions, I will try to answer them here.

Cheers,
Richard Bullwinkle
TiVolutionary

How will advertising change?

[boss soul]

It seems like if they allow people to add HD space at their own discretion, this stands as yet another selling point for this product. Considering this, I wonder...

If TIVO, and products like it, become more and more popular, will the very nature of advertising on television change as a result?

My friend owns one of those TIVO thingies, and it seems like he never watches any commercials at all... he just pre-records all his favorate shows, and then zips thru the ads with the 30 second-skip button. If it gets to the point where most viewers are using a service that allows them to do this, how will the networks change the format of ads in order to compensate? Will they place them during the shows themselves, or in the form of product placement?

Or will they simply revert to subliminal mind control techniques? :)

More solid information?

[Cardinal]

Is it just me, or did C-Net build this story around a quote and an inference from a single Tivo representative (Rebecca Baer)?

I'm glad Mr. Hill has no problem with people hacking Tivos, but he isn't a Tivo rep.

So.. Is there a better source on Tivo's perspective on the matter? After all, recent C-Net stories haven't exactly been fountains of indisputable and reliable information... :)

this story does NOT say tivo endorses this

[happystink]

The quote from Tivo is just saying that people WILL do this. They are not saying it's okay with them. I don't even really get that inference. The SINGLE QUOTE in question is so so so neutral.

It's annoying when posters don't read the story, but when slashdot editors don't, it's just sad.

sig:

Re:two things

[iCEBaLM]

More to the point: if a company rents out equipment with GPL-modified equipment (rather than sells it), would they need to release the code modifications?

Yes, read the GPL, it says it in plain black and white that if you distribute GPL derrived works you must also offer source. Renting is a form of distribution for a set amount of time.

-- iCEBaLM

Why is this news?

[Skim123]

Buy a TiVo, you are paying your own money... you decide to tinker with it... why would the TiVo folks have any say in the matter? Don't you buy a TiVo? You aren't renting it, correct? I don't see why TiVo would have any stance on this. It would be like Ford saying, "We don't have any problem with people changing their own oil filters." That being said, why again is this news?

Re:Hacking is GOOD for TiVo

[tsangc]

Geek hacks TiVo, adds features, makes it better, makes it GPL. TiVo likes mods, adds them to next version, everybody benefits. I'm waiting for my RAIDed, mp3 playing, networkable, quake playing TiVo. Seeya WebTV!

Has anyone ever considered some features as not beneficial to Tivo? As Open Source advocates, most folks here think any feature is a good feature. But that's not the case in all situations, especially not if you're trying to run a business.

What if someone figures out how to hack a Tivo to download TV Guide listings off the web instead of their schedule service, effectively freeing the machine from monthly fees? That'd kill Tivo's business model. So no, hacking is not always good.

A lot of folks here don't realize that companies don't just sell hardware anymore-in Netpliance and Tivo's case, the hardware platform is just the entry-the software and more importantly, service, is the key part of their business.

--Calum

Re:Well, DUH!

[ncc74656]

Speaking of warranties and that sticker, I just snagged a TiVo (the 14-hour Philips model) a little bit ago (someone in the other recent TiVo thread mentioned that these were $200 after rebate at a certain electronics retailer). The back of the box has one of those "warranty void if removed" stickers on it. I thought it was going to be like those stickers I used to see on Packard Bells and such that left behind a silvery "VOID" when you removed it. However, the sticker actually came off pretty cleanly. If you open the case slowly enough, you can remove the sticker in one piece and put it back if you have to take the box in for service. Nothing will look amiss. You could probably even stick the sticker on some wax paper to keep it fresh, so that if you're constantly monkeying with the box, you won't have to continuallly remove/replace the sticker. I don't have a second drive to install in it right now (the drive that's in the TiVo is bigger than any of the drives in any of my computers :-) ), but I wanted to make a "virginal" backup of what's on the drive...the TiVo hacking FAQ sez this is a good idea if the thought of running afoul of warranties doesn't scare you too much, as it'll be the smallest backup possible.

_/_
/ v \
(IIGS( Scott Alfter (remove Voyager's hull # to send mail)
\_^_/

Good news, but is it surprising?

[Transition Cat]

I mean, why would Tivo be opposed to this?

• These small minority of Tivo owners are voiding their warranties (good news to Tivo since they won't have to fix the unit even if it would have broken on its own).
• The modified units are still being used for their intended purposes.
• Any quasi-illegal hacks and improvements designed by d0m357|c h4x0r5 such as making the Tivo an mp3 box can be reverse engineered later by Tivo themselves without any patent violations or R&D costs.
• Where's the downside?

....