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2600 Staffer Arrested During Republican Convention
Addendum: I find it amusing that people are so pissed about me using Slashdot to editorialize my opinions. I've been doing this for 3 years, why would I stop now? If you want unbiased news, read the mainstream press... look how honest and unbiased their coverage is! We're humans here, with actual opinions and everything. Besides, if I don't get to soapbox once in awhile, wouldn't Slashdot be boring?
I find it amusing that I've recieved pretty much equal mail from democrats (Rah rah! Way to state the case!) and republicans (I will no longer read Slashdot because I don't think you should be allowed to have opinions and obviously your opinions are stupid. And you are stupid too. And I hate you). Both missed the point: I don't like either party (I don't even like parties). But I really detest Bush. And since this is America, I can say that! And you can disagree! Hooray!
I dont have the link, but there was an article on Salon.com about the protesters who were being held more than 48 hours without a phone call allowed, most of them had not been fed, and half of the cell blocks had the water turned off, so they could not use the toilets. One of the 'protestors' arrested was a jogger who happened to get caught in the crowd.
Something changed in America after the WTO riots. Somehow the police think they have carte blanche to treat citizens like animals for utilizing their right of free assembly and free speech. I can't see the difference between how China is treating members of the Falun Gong and whats happening in Philadelphia (and what did happen) in Seattle.
We argue and fight for our online rights, but those online rights wont mean anything if we cant use those same rights in public, in the 'real' world.
Check out Magic Firesheep!
It appears that some of you just don't get it.
/. staff in general. Of course, since I'm NOT /. staff, I'm allowed my opinion, lucky me.
Slashdot is not a news source. Slashdot compiles a bunch of links to stories that are of interest to the community that visits here. It doesn't, as a rule, have more than a few sentences about what the link points to. How is that reporting?
The entire point of this place is discussion. A huge ball of geeks spouting their opinions and having some level of intelligent discussion. Why should CT be exempt from that? He created the damn thing, I'd think he could lob his opinion out with the rest of you, eh?
For a group of "geeks" or "elite linux gurus" and generally "smart guys", you are either a load of hypocrites or lack any form of common sense. If you were told to withold your opinion in these discussions from now on, you'd rant and rave for days. When CT volunteers his, you cry like children. This place has never professed to be a geek-inhabited bastion of journalism. It's a crew of opinionated nerds...get used to it.
Interestingly enough, the above is my opinion and doesn't reflect those of
As a Philadelphian I was vrey pleased with the actions my city and its police dept took during the past week.
"Freedom of Speach" isn't an absolute right; you can be sued for libel, and of course you can't shout the proverbial "fire in the theatre". Similiarly, I think most Americans would argee that the right to assembly does not give you the right to hold hostage a million people by shutting down access routes out of downtown Philadelphia (center city as we call it here), as some protestors did attempt to.
I think the authorities were more than generous in allowing protestors who had intentionally not applied for a permit (to show their so called dissidence) but were willing reasonable enough and could be negotiated with, - to march down a 4 mile stretch of one of the busiest Philly streets, Broad st. They also received full Police protection from traffic that was not expecting to find the street closed.
Most of the protestors who were arrested were not part of an organization with a noble cause. As admitted by several in TV interviews they were there for the sole purpose of disrupting "the event". These scoundrels who would assert that they have a right to block major intersections by overturning dumpsters in the street deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and have clearly overstepped any constitutionally protected rights.
American kids today have a got a lot to learn about political dissidence. Some of the best examples can be seen abroad. Take Natal Sheransnky, a Russian Jew who during the 70s hijacked a plane to bring attention to the plight of Soviet Jewery. He rotted in Jail for about 10 years, but he became a martyr and it benefitted his cause. - and if you think US jails are bad...
My point being, that if you plan on breaking the law to bring attention to your cause (or lack of one) then you must be willing to pay the price - be a martyr. The kids in jail here are a bunch of whining babies. They think that they should be allowed to get away with vandalizing property, assaulting police, and other offenses because they were "protesting"? Boohoo, in Philly we actually enforce our laws.
--Aaron Greenberg
There are a number of instances where organizers were singled out and arrested in a preemptive manner. This is probably why the staff member from 2600 was arrested. You see, the organizers all carry the Nextel phones, because they are cheap and can conference call. Read a number of instances where people were arrested, not read any rights, detained for longer than legal times, not told what they were being charged with, (and here is the shocker) because they happened to be walking by with a Nextel phone.
Do the protesters have valid concerns? Yes, I think so. In Philidelphia, it appears you can walk on civil rights, and get away with it with out so much as a mention from the mainstream media. My favorite site has been Tom Tommorrow's photo shoot of the Republican convention (Tom Tommorrow draws This Modern World.) The highlight in my mind is the part where you have a picture of Sam Donaldson sitting bored complaining about the lack of news, while protesters flooded the streets outside.
Over the past 10 years the Democrats have moved vastly to the right, and the Republicans have moved to the left. What we have right now are two parties that quibble over minor details while agreeing on the big ones. It truely has become a monoparty system. The term "Republicrat" is popping up more and more.
Bill Mahr put it best on his show, Politically Incorrect, "We already have compassionate conservatives. They're called Democrats." This is very true. There really is no voice for the progressive these days--or so the media would have us believe. The fact is, that Ralph Nader is a liberal progressive--and a damn smart person. He is the reason we have some semblance of auto safety standards. He graduated magna cum laude from Princeton in 1955, and from Harvard Law School in 1958. Since then he has tirelessly devoted his life to public service. The guy makes over $300,000/yr and lives off of $25,000--because he gives the rest to civic projects.
More importantly, the guy is way ahead of all the other third party candidates, is on the ballot in 30 states already (including Montana
But, the media has chosen to ignore him.
So rather than throw my vote away by voting for one of the major parties, I'm going to do something this year. I'm going to do my part to get the Green Party recognized so that the Democrats can never again say,"You have to vote for us, we're not Newt Gingrich's party."
-Peter
Voting for the "least worst choice" is still going downhill. Make your vote actually count. Vote Nader
. Penguins Surely Ca
please... the philly police did nothing wrong.
(I live 30 mins north of philly, so thanks to local news, we got a bit more information regarding what happened than most of you)
I don't think that the Philly police did anything wrong at all during the convention. If anything, they deserve a lot of credit for how they handled all this. The local police did A LOT of research (including flying up to Seattle during the riots) and lots and lots of training for weeks before the convention.
The so-called peaceful protesters were really not so peaceful. The police (thanks to tips from the secret services) found all kinds of stuff, ranging from explosives, to lethal spiders, snakes, etc that the protesters were planning to release in the crowds. Not to mantion protesters were tying piano wire across roadways to try to trip horses (and potentially injure them). The list of outrageous things they did goes on and on.
As far as the prison bad treatment, well, it seems that again, it was the police that was abused. Apparently, the so called peaceful protesters were throwing feces and urine at the guards/cops - while chanting and screaming all night long. No offense, but with that kind of behavior, bot only do they not deserve any kind of civilized treatment, but they deserve to be in lockup for the rest of their stays in that prison. That being said, they were fed, INCLUDING those with special diet requirement like lactose intolerance (they received peanut butter sandwich instead of cheese sandwich).
Lastly, I sincerely doubt that this guy was in fact walking down the street with his cell phone - but if it is in fact the case, I'd like to think that it is an isolated incident/mistake for which the cops should apologize. There were tons of actually peaceful protests all around the city, and none of them were brutalized or anything, although the Philly police did keep an eye on all of these protests.
All in all the Philly police did a great job, and reacted VERY WELL under extreme pressure.
As far as the remarks about GW Bush, well, as an H1B worker, the american politics don't interest me a whole lot but I will say this: the alternative doesn't seem a whole lot better (if at all better).
PS: I am from Belgium, you should see the kind of crowd control we use when we have violent protesters (which we do a lot since Brussels is the headquarters of NATO and EU) - the tactics used by the Philly police is relatively mild compared to what we do.
My personal favorite line was:
Of course there were extremists who deserved it, but a lot of folks were protesting peacefully Yeah, Rob, really fucking bright - if you dare express your opinion, you clearly deserve to have your skull bashed in, get sprayed with pepper spray, and then tossed in a cell with 100 other people (standing room only) for 72 hours with no food, little water, and all your rights stripped away from you. Do you even know who was tossed in jail? Do you honestly BELIEVE the garbage you see on ABC (owned by Disney, a major contributor to the RNC) or any of the other networks? They arrested over 450 people - very very few of whom were "violent". Most were practicing non-violent civil disobedience, the sort of stuff Ghandi used. People laying down in the middle of the street is not violent, and does not deserve the usage of pepper spray - but it was done. People who want delegates to be able to see them and know that they do not like what they stand for don't deserve to be arrested for 'criminal tresspass' on a public street - but it was done.
I know this is basically the wrong forum, and I really do not give a rat's ass if my karma is dropped (it's high enough already, thankyouverymuch), but for fuck's sake - does anyone in this world every really think things through anymore?
--
Matt Singerman
Matt Singerman
http://matt.vegan.net/
I can't see the difference between how China is treating members of the Falun Gong and what's happening in Philadelphia (and what did happen) in Seattle.
Agreed. Both the U.S. and China understand quite well that demonstrations and the appearance of chaos and civil unrest are bad for business. I've talked with Chinese who were in support of the Chinese government's handling of the Tiananmen Square incident--at that time, some ten years ago, China's economy was taking off due to investment from the West. Many corporate eyes were trained on China to see how they would handle the protests. When they saw that they would happily call in the military to quell an otherwise peaceful demonstration, it was clear that it was much safer to invest in China than, say, Russia. And honestly, how could the U.S. in good conscience disagree with their actions after the Kent State murders?
Heavy-handed police tactics are nothing new in the U.S. We sent state militias out to help Pinkerton break strikes at Carnegie Steel, we sent Patton and his cavalry to charge and tear gas the Bonus Army and chase them off D.C. soil, we firehosed Dr. King and his companions in the name of "segregation today, segregation tomorrow." In each case the government, a pawn of the "haves," abused its power over the "have nots" in the name of good business and preservation of the status quo. Why should we expect this precedent to change? And why should we expect China not to learn from our good example?
I don't know what you're talking about in terms of libertarians and religion. The ACLU is most definitely not a libertarian organization, as witnessed by (among many other things) their hostility toward any privatization of the school system, such as vouchers which would allow parents to choose religious or secular private schools. Libertarians view religion as independent of government; it should be neither promoted nor disparaged, just like the 1st Amendment says.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Like I said, it's your press, print what you want. "Abusing Slashdot" will only do more to convince many of us that Slashdot speaks primarily for the far-left wing of the "geek" population.
-cwk.
As we all know from the Mitnick case, a hacker can initiate nuclear strikes just by whistling down a telephone line. I mean, that's just fact, isn't it? I think the police were very prudent in arresting him before he had time to launch.
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
Bravo Dr S.!
/. authors comment "Cool Toy" "Gotta have one". We all race to the latest link and check it out.
/. is to balance my daily/weekly force feeding of propaganda, and opinion from the above sources I know are totally non reflective of my interests, beliefs, interests or concerns.
/. to provide the facts and commentary on issues that matter to me. I was there in the 60's (And YES! I do remember them) I am old enough to feel strongly that the communication tool the net provides is the most valuable contribution to our times and there is no question in my mind that the national media is hardly what I would hold up to Slashdot or many other like sites as an example of 'ethical'.
When a new toy appears and
News Flash! THAT IS OPINION, not NEWS!
This is slashdot NOT ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX.
I get plenty of OPINION from those sources 24/7 and frankly, the reason I read
The only reason I 'DO' read the standard media is to keep aware of just exactly 'WHAT' those people are thinking and trying to feed the sheep that believe all that pap placed before them. I read Slashdot for the authors/editors and posters opinions of the latest issues because they inevitably include multiple links, insights, sources and prospective. Truth be known, Slashdot posters furnish the depth I utilize to judge an issue for myself.
I don't code, I don't do hardware, and I'm not an industry insider so I count on
Just one more opinion, for what it is worth!
ah! the internet!! we may still screw up the world but NEVER again will we be able to claim IGNORANCE
The object of an election isn't to vote for the winner. That's silly and circuituous logic. The object of an election is to vote for the candidate who best fits your ideas about how government should work.
Bush or Gore will win the 2000 election. That's a fact. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't vote Libertarian, or Green, or whatever most closely meets your own beliefs. Keep in mind that, if even a few percent of the vote are for a third-party candidate, that candidate, his or her party, and the whole concept of a many-party system will gain legitimacy and clout in 2004, and in elections to come. That translates into real action by the winner of this year's election - remember, much of presidential politics works by 'mandate,' the idea that the President's political capital stems from the belief that his ideas parallel those of the public. It also translates into a real chance at third parties winning, if not the Presidency, then congressional seats and local offices. A few percent means tens of millions of people. It means power. It means change.
Elections are a lot more complex than just which "white man in a suit" gets to live in the big white house for the next four years. They're the formal expression of the will of the people. Don't throw your vote away by voting for Bush or Gore if they don't really express the direction you'd like politics to move in.
Besides, they ripped someone's ear off. They RIPPED SOMEONE'S EAR OFF! Disfigurement is an extreme punishment for a misdemeanor.
Ch
Others will mention it, but the SLASH-based site to go for news about the protests is philadelphia independent media center.
Ok, there's like 30-some odd comments right now (at a threshold of +1) and most of them seem to be bitching about how CmdrTaco shouldn't have used Slashdot for his political views.
Why the hell not? He uses Slashdot for his views about software, why not politics? It's his website, after all, he can do whatever the hell he wants. Rather than bitching about it, just don't click on stories you don't want to read - less pageviews means he'll be less likely to post something like that in the future.
--
It's never "throwing away" one's vote to vote for the candidate you actually want to become President. Voting for the lesser of two evils is indeed throwing away the vote.
Since both Bush and Gore are not worthy of this high office, I don't care who of them wins if and when I vote for my consumer rights hero, Ralph Nader. Ralph is the only candidate running who I can put my full faith and trust in. Of course, I don't agree with Ralph on every issue, but at least he and his party are not bought and paid for. Their positions on the issues are *their* positions on the issues.
Go Nader go!
Steve Magruder
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
In the US we have continually have some of the lowest voter turn outs in the world. Its no wonder that money controls both major parties. Do yourself a favor, dont vote for them, vote for someone else, while I dont like Nader, he does make a hell of a protest vote. I will probably vote for Harry Brown myself. But what ever you do, dont not vote. Dont succumb to the throwing your vote away bs. A protest vote is still a vote, and with enough protest votes, we can make either the major parties none existant, or force them to hear and cater to our voices. Please dont waste that vote.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
Also, if you think Gore has economic sense, could you explain his defense of the fraudulent Ponzi scheme known as Social Security?
For the same reason that GWB talks about wanting to "fix" or "save" Social Security, when you and I might want to hear the phrase "phase out" instead: because nobody who used the phrase "fraudulent Ponzi scheme" to describe Social Security would have a snowball's chance in Texas (or Hell, same diff) of being elected. They'd be a shoo-in for the Libertarian nomination, maybe, but that just furthers my point.
Why the *%^# does a tax cut have to be "economically needed"?
Because that's one of the ways we try and smooth out the boom/bust cycle of the economy. Every dollar of tax cuts that occurs during the current boom is just a dollar that will have to be made up during the next bust, when it will hurt much more.
Keep in mind, "tax cuts" and "spending cuts" are two different things. Do you really think that if we mindlessly cut taxes, that Congress will cut spending to match? Didn't Reagan try that, and send the debt from 1 to 3 trillion or so during his term?
It's our money, we earned it,
Well, see, the problem is that it isn't your money. About $5 trillion of our past two decades' budgets came from the U.S. government's creditors (including uncounted bond-holding suckers), many of whom have business plans or retirement plans which depend on seeing that money again. And we now have a choice to make: we can pay them back now, and forgo tax cuts during an unbelievably healthy economy. We can keep borrowing now, and pay them back later, and hope that the economy will go from "unbelievably healthy" to "inconceivable juggernaut" to make our delay pay off. Or, we can default on the debt, and hope that we can bring an end to the Great Depression II without first going through World War III.
how about the government showing that it's "economically needed" for taxes to be at the highest peacetime level in history?
Look at the federal debt. Look at the budget surplus, which is higher than anyone expected and not certain to continue long. Estimate how long it would take for the latter to pay down the former to less preposterous levels. There's your proof of economic necessity.
Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't cut spending, and then cut taxes. But let's do those things in the right order this time?
I think you forgot your link. But here's one: fairvote.org. Also see Open Directory Project's listing on voting systems and the Voting Systems FAQ.
A Dick and a Bush .. You know somebody's gonna get screwed.
War is necrophilia.
Heres the real scoop before you believe the "unbiased" news that come from the protest groups themselves.
Protesters who were arrested were arrested for the following things: (1) Destruction of property (2) Directly assaulting police (3) Blocking traffic. The common tactics used by most truly non-violent protestors (the traffic blocking ones) was to block a street and use various paraphenalia like PVC pipes and chains to lock themselves together. The philly police had to clear these people and they did so with as little force as possible. To do otherwise is irresponsible on the part of the police. Several police have been injured or sprayed with unknown substances when they were either doing nothing (sitting in their patrol cars, etc.) Several more were injured (including the police commissioner) when they attempted to stop violent protestors from tipping over cars and other blatantly destructive activities.
Unlike Seattle no tear gas was ever used. The philly police were calmer and far gentler than their counterparts in Seattle. The police stopped several trucks and closed down a warehouse they were told housed equipment to be used for disruptive protests. I assume that these things will be sorted out now that the convention is over and the police have actual time to follow up. Incidentally the worst day of protests was the second day of the convention, not the first and not the last. Anyone who tells you differently is making things up.
As for the jail conditions, it was not uncommon for protesters to strip naked, piss, and crap all over their holding cells. They then demanded to be moved out of their squalid conditions. The police refused and let them sit in their own shit. Some protestors complained about the food because they were (1) vegetarians or (2) had dietary health problems. Food was usually on the order of cheese or pb&j sandwiches (for the lactose intolerant). Philly police site about 400 people in custody and over half have been released. Those still in custody are most likely being held because they will not disclose their real names to the police and will be released once they do. Several people still being held were the riot instructors. These are the people who trained and then were actively coaching the disruptive protestors on the sidelines.
Considering the incredible pressure and concerted effort put against the Philadelphia police, the city of philadelphia is very happy with its police force. All the pictures and videos I have seen on the local news have been relatively positive towards the police.
So far I've gotten all my Karma from telling people they are wrong... :)