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Tom's Hardware Linux NVidia Benchmarks
diehard writes: "Tom's Hardware has posted a set of benchmarks of NVidia cards running under Xfree86 4. They are pretty impressive - it looks like Linux has finally become truly viable for gaming."
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Tom has taken a big step for him in dedicating a review to Linux. He has the following to say about it:
This was my first Linux hardware review and it will certainly not be my last. The first time is always supposed to be the hardest, but the most rewarding as well. Please let me know how I performed here. Was I babbling too much about Linux? Weren't there enough facts in the review? Don't you care about 3D stuff in your Linux-box? Please give me feed back under tomslinux@tomshardware.com . I will try to live up to the expectations of the Linux community, but first I need to know what they are.
We need to encourage him! Tell him some of the things we would like reviewed with linux benchmarks. Thank him for taking a big step in dedicating a whole review to linux. Only good things can come of this!
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
You might wish to try the IRC channel #nvidia on irc.openprojects.net as we have very experienced users there that can help you with most installation problems, as well one of the nvidia linux developers is a regular. We often get between release "experimental" drivers which fix some bugs and help with final releases, as well as a set of pentiumpro+ optimized drivers which seem to boost 2D performance significantly and 3D performance somewhat, YMMV.
There are some pretty bad bugs in the current drivers which were fixed previously but crept back in somehow.
-- iCEBaLM
Well, this is a good start. Perhaps now we can add some of the other things that gamers like - for example an ability to change resolution and depth when not running as root.
And how about a 3D API that allow you to optimise speed for the capabilities of the graphics card. Or some low level support for 3D cards in the frame buffer device (which could solve both these problems quite easily)
I think I'm the only one who prefered the old days when the OS was considered irrelevent for games, except for as a program launcher, and something that should be disposed of as soon as possible. How many people want to multitask their web server with quake anyway?
dload xfree86.org linux binaries of 4.01
run xinstall.sh
run XFree86 -configure
edit your new XF86Config till it works properly (hint - do a xf86config & copy details from that to your "-configure" generated one - you need to select "generic vga" as your card though)
get: tdfx_drm-1.0-2.src.rpm & Glide_V3-DRI-3.10-6.i386.rpm from: here & follow the instructions on the page to install them
do a "modprobe tdfx" to load the module (before you "startx")
Quake III should now work, including DGA mouse (YMMV)(hint - create an .xinitrc in ~/ with "exec quake3" as the only command - if you change res ingame it tends to fsck your dektop on exit)
I agree that the documentation is sparse (nvidia does it much better), but it's early days for these drivers, & they are being actively developed.
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Full plate and packing steel! -Minsc
All signs are pointing towards a future without page flipping, so adding the messy infrastructure for it now would be a mistake. Don't let benchmarking furor encourage a messy code architecture.
Points:
The benefit of page flipping is decreasing as more and more computation is done per pixel to the back buffer.
In the old days of 2D scrollers, you might barely cover the screen with one pass of writes, so page flipping could double your speed over blitting.
On a typical modern 3D game that becomes fill limited, under 25% of the performance is in the blit, and often under 10% in scenes with significant overdraw.
In upcoming games that composite 20+ layers of textures, the cost of a blit is down in the noise.
Blits add flexibility. Anti-aliasing is better done through a blit operation than with a deep front buffer. Other operations, like converting from a 64 bit work pixel to a 32 bit display pixel, or performing convolutions, are also better done with blits.
Back buffers are more optimally arranged in tiled patterns, while front buffers prefer linear scans.
Basically, our back buffers are starting to look less like raster
Page flipping doesn't apply to windowed rendering unless you butcher the X server to render all 2D to multiple buffers and clip all 3D operations. I consider that a bad thing. Making the full screen rendering more distant from windowed rendering is also a bad thing.
Every implementation of page flipping brings in a class of bugs, and obfuscates several code paths. It's not worth it.
John Carmack
I beg your pardon... Nethack has looked great on Linux for years!
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
I'm the author of the proggy Tom used as one of the benchmarks, the unix solar system simulation as he called :-). He didn't put a link so just in case you want to give it a try you can found it right here.
However, i have to tell you this a rather old program and maybe not the most suitable for benchmarking a new generation 3D cards (like the GeForce).
VA is currently working on an XFree4.0 driver for the new Radeon cards. It's being developed under contract from ATI themselves, it'll use the DRI, and it'll be open-source.
Check out the adjacent article on Tom's, about the Radeon. It performs slightly slower than the GeForce in 16-bit mode, and at lower resolutions, but at high-res 32-bit modes the Radeon edges out the GeForce.
The GeForce numbers may be impressive, but me, I'm going to wait until the Radeon driver is ready. And then I'm going to show ATI just how much I appreciate an open solution.
iSKUNK!
Linux has a long way to go to being truly viable as a gaming platform. Just becasue one (or a few) video cards have good bench marks, doesn't mean that it is viable, to be viable there needs to be GOOD support from all vendors, who specifically target Linux as a gaming platform like they do to windows, not just one or two companies.
> Most gamers don't have the latest hardware or the fastest as it is normally very expensive.We need excellent support from all hardware manufacturers that have produced video cards over the last year or two. So that all linux users can enjoy a great gaming experience.
This is just the tip of the iceburg, we also need better support for mice, sound cards etc, I mean there is support for these, but not to the extent that they are great for gaming
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As cunning as a fox, which has just been appointed professor of cunning at Oxford University. http://www.kinlan.co
The default is for resolutions smaller than the maximum to have a virtual desktop, but this can be turned off, either while running xf86config or editing /etc/X11/XF86Config. Unfortunately, GUI tools such as Xconfigurator (used by RedHat, maybe others) hide this option from you.
Personally, I think that virtual desktop space is evil, too, especially when I have 3 (or more!) perfectly good other desktops to use (and anyway, the machines I use run at 1024 x 768 or higher).
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
What about the "Time it takes to install" benchmark? New windows drivers are (usually) just a double-click away, while the XFree 4.0 installation is a nasty series of rpms, a kernel patch, and config file editing.
I hate it when I can't surf slashdot because my X is broken!
But it's worth it for the little quake icon on my gnome launcher.
Well, this is a good start. Perhaps now we can add some of the other things that gamers like - for example an ability to change resolution and depth when not running as root.
Maybe you were not aware. But I find X to have the simplest and lest obstrusive ways of changing desktop resoultion. If you configured your X correctly have have a number of set resoultions defined as usable on your videocard/monitor combo, then you should be able to change resoltion by just pressting the keys ALT -/+ . Plus to increase, minus to decrease.
Enjoy
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Tom's reviews are always hard to read; mostly because of the bad grammer, spelling and logic, (like "....linux is securer than windows 2000...")
but, he is honest and doesn't hold back. that makes up for it.
Linux 3d is being handled very poorly. Several years ago, when Linux was struggling through issues with 2D, a lot of people wrote HOWTO's and webpages explaining how to cobble things together. XFree was honest about what did (and did not) work.
But now, anyone who visits the 3dfx newsgroups or the XFree site, then attempts to get their card working in 3d mode, will notice two things:
1) There are no HOWTO's or webpages dedicated to your card. When you ask a simple question, you will immediately be bombarded by three morons who say "why didn't you read through the last 712 messages! everything you need is there!"
2) XFree 4.0.1 documentation claims all sorts of miracles. But the truth is, the product does very little that is new unless you are willing to read the the 712 aforementioned messages and figure out how to disregard the 213 of then that are now outdated or innaccurate.
Many cards require a CVS download and rebuild of everything, plus a 2.3 series kernel, and many files from other sites. After you build everything and and apply all the hacks, don't be suprised if the your system locks after 20 seconds or so, like mine did.
Hate to say it, but XFree is really going out on a limb by calling this beast a "3D enabled release". It's a immature, undocumented 3D release being supported by a bunch of monkeys who refuse to properly document the 3D workarounds. The later 3.X releases were better documented, both by XFree and the card vendors, and more reliable in 3D mode.
The 2D side of 4.0.1 is stable, and the new server configuration stuff is wonderful. But this is not a quality 3D release by any means.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Absolutely. Text based games are the way to go. In fact, I recenty spent $179.99 on a BSD Star Trek accelerator. Quite an investment, but you should see how fast it goes. Especially if I reduce the res to 40 columns. And Hangman is incredible. Even some of the serious apps in /usr/games/bin like morse have increased their speed considerably.
I would like to see benchmarks of the DRI drivers that are more crossplatform (work being done on FreeBSD for example) as well as open and supported by vendors like ATI,Matrox, and 3dfx.
I don't care how many articles are written about how great gaming on linux is, it is still _unplayable_ without decent mouse support. I have the latest drivers from nvidia that work with xfree 4.0.1. I've tried everything from Option SampleRate to tuneps2.
In short, NOTHING WORKS. the response in Q3A is slow and jerky, unless you are standing stock still. If you turn m_filter off in windows, the mouse is still smooth because the ps/2 rate acn be cranked so high. In linux with m_filter off, it is sucky sucky sucky.
Somebody has to get Loki and XFree in a room together and FIX THIS. Check the newsgroups. check slashdot. _everyone_ complains about this, but nothing gets done. I'm tired loki saying "oh, we support DGA, it should work," and XFree saying, "we fixed it in 4.0.1." Can somebody _please_ address this problem, once and for all?
</rant> sorry.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Fix the bloody kernel and volia, the problem is gone. It's the truth. All hardware vendors give up working on drivers eventually. Even OSS hardware drivers will not get updated when they get really old, simply because there are bigger fish to fry. Having a stable driver API is a big help here. Really, though, NVIDIA is really good about old hardware. I have an original TNT and they're still giving upgraded drivers for it.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
The reason 60fps is better than 30fps
is that we're talking average here.
With 30fps the minimum could end up being
18 fps (which is noticable), while with
60 fps the minimum might be around 40 fps.
If you had a game which held 30fps AT ALL TIMES,
it would be just as good as 60fps ALL THE TIME.
The NVIDIA Linux driver is faster than it looks from some of the benchmarks. The thing he mentioned, the page-flipping vs. blitting issue, seems to account for most of the performance difference between linux and Win98. I say this, because under the low-res Solar System tests, Win98 and Linux perform almost equally. Tom attributes this to CPU limitations, but the GeForce cards are geometry accelerators, so CPU limitations really shouldn't be an issue here. If the NVIDIA Linux driver really were slower, than transforms would be slower as well, and thus the Solar System score would be lower. Same thing for the low res Quake III tests.
That brings me to a question. Why doesn't the NVIDIA Linux driver implement page flipping. Page-flipping is a basic necessity (nay, a innate right!) for game developers. I seriously doubt X doesn't allow access to page flipping in full screen mode... does it? Also, I just thought of something. Does X allow access to page-flipped overlays. That might allow Quake to use page-flipping in window'ed modes. (Which would be pretty cool.)
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Linux didn't used to be about money ... While many people in the Linux community, including myself, didn't welcome RedHat's IPO, it shows how valuable Linux has become
Why, oh why, do people always think that open-source or software liber implies that nobody can make money off of it? Contrary to many peoples' opinions, RMS does not mind if you make money. Why is it bad that RedHat went IPO? What can they possibly do to the community? The very nature of the GPL is that no one person can run off with the code. There is no chance that they would make the kernel non-free or anything like that, like many people were claiming would happen. Instead, what has happened to the free software community as a result of the IPO?
They've hired programmers to work on the kernel
They've hired programmers to work on GNOME
They've helped bring the ideas of the open-source community to the masses.
The last is the most important of all. Hiring programmers has been a great help to ensuring the success of critical parts of the GNU/Linux system, but that by itself would have meant very little without their support of the free software community. Without freedom, it would have just been another software project. Instead, their help of the GNOME project as well as the kernel has helped prepare the platform for their most important aid to our community. That aid was in spreading our ideas to the world. Yes, they are taking more of an open-source pragmatist approach as opposed to the free software idealistic approach. But even exposure to the former will help, and eventually some of the users will open their minds towards the ethics of free software, not just the business of open-source.
Sorry if this turned out to be a rant.
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Friends don't let friends misuse the subjunctive.