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IBM WebSphere SE To Be Opened?
JoyToy writes ""AS PART OF its crusade to marginalize operating systems such as Windows, IBM is leaning toward giving the Standard Edition of its WebSphere application server to the open-source community."
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BEA WebLogic is similar WebLogic, in that it's a good App server. Still closed source, last I checked.
Dare I ask, why bother shifting products just because IBM changed it's licensing?
There are a number of perfectly legitimate reasons to switching to Netscape server from apache, but it's folly to think "it's opensource" to be one of those reasons.
My two Cents.
-K
If IBM wants to give Linux (and other Free/Open Software) a real kick in the pants they can do one thing: Get Mozilla out there Do whatever it takes--lend some programmers, delete all Bugzilla entries labelled "enhancement", hire some hit-men to kill the current managers, whatever.
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For someone who's set up WAS (WebSphere Advanced Server) on both *NIX (Solaris) and NT, this is interesting. WAS on *NIX is a royal pain in the arse - impossible to administer, difficult to configure, and generally a black art.
./'s collective eyes, even if it is a nightmare from the coding pits of hell.
On NT, on the other hand, it works. And it works well. You may be interested to know that IBM internally build WAS on NT first ('because it's cheaper'), then port to AIX, Linux, and Solaris. The NT SCM (Service Control Manager) controls the WAS services properly, unlike the rather dodgy shell scripts shipped with the *NIX version.
Still, if they go open source, then nothing will make them wrong in
Actually working in one of the IBM labs in North America, I can tell you IBM is becoming very very open about embracing the open source movement. This is really just a taste of what might come later. Being a open source supporter aside, I can certainly understand their strategy to move away from proprietary solution to give them an edge over products like Microsoft's Visual Studio... They get better publicity, better 3rd party developers and better software in general. I am very happy with where they are going with this.
2: Linux can go under in the sense that the recent Linux craze can crash and turn to be a fad. And it will.
3: I am a Linux user. Here's how IBM can kill the platform.
I'm not saying IBM's mistake is focusing the platform on geeks. I'm saying IBM's mistake is focusing on geeks, period. They're using Linux as the evagelization tool of choice to attract geeks.
However, by trying to take Linux out of its OSS context, IBM is exposing Linux to mass markets before it is ready to take on the desktop market head on. They're trying to press the advantage of OSS, and frankly, I don't think they care for Linux beyond the fact it's a good way to endear themselves to the geeks.
Thus, IBM is once again taking a product before it is able to compete on the desktop market, and pushing it to the sky. Too bad this means Linux will receive a lukewarm reception from the mass market, and will forever be remembered as another attempt by IBM to promote an OS with not chutzpah.
In closing, I really, really didn't care for your sophism-laden condescending attitude, Mr. 'Have you ever met a Linux user'. For crissakes, did you notice this is SLASHDOT?
Dude, it starts up a lot faster if you change the -mx in the admin.config file. Also, the way to shut it down is to startup ./adminconfig.sh and stop the server. You must not have used a recent version (ie > 3.0). Never had a problem with having to reconfig the whole thing though. I have had problems in getting the Advanced edition EJB's to work, though.
Hope this helps.
I need a TiVo for my car. Pause live traffic now.
Ok so they open source it. (I don't know anything else about it but from what I've heard sounds pretty cool) And then because "with enough eyeballs all bugs are shallow" we as a community fix this and other bugs and have a good system.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Second, while not espousing theories of conspiracy that the evil blue empire is on the verge of world domination, I would be cautious in approaching the blue flag of universal friendship. Bad blood between the Unix vendors runs deep and wide and the "embracing of OSI" initiative is a largely political stance to get IBM back into the mainstream culture. I've heard some of the top AIX developers/integrators say "there's a few good ideas in Linux .. like the small graphical install packages", while at the same time saying that they will introduce new functionality in AIX that comes directly from linux source code without giving proper due credit. This effectively goes to the point of stealing code back out of some linux utilities, and then figuring out how little of it they are obligated to make public again.
On top of this AIX has never been a strong O/S (BSD base and slow to adopt later SVR4 revisions - only recently with the acquisition of SCO do they have the license and have things like truss been announced for the O/S) .. IBM knows this, and is looking for ways to popularize their lack of technology and innovation - mainly the good old fashioned way of copying and changing a little to make it look like your own (like a good percentage of dissertations out there) .. much in linux has this same form of flattery, and a merger of the two means that we now have a hybrid imitation of many things that are better done and supported elsewhere with no real advancement in the field itself. This muddying of the technical waters has persisted for many years, and through the duping of much of the "technical mainstream" will persist for many more while a rift develops between what people understand and what they think they understand. All the while this leads to large $$ capital position as phony needs are created, and a large "enterprise with XX years experience" steps in and says we can support that .. it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the s/w industry will be peanuts compared to the future h/w and service industry.
sigh .. enough ranting for a day ..
OK, I am a little confused here... The "Open Source Community" begs companies to release open source software. IBM then announces the opening of the source for a major product. Next, I read crap like this with all sorts of conspiracy theories. What the hell?!?!
Of course IBM wants to dominate the industry. Every public company has a fiduciary duty to it's stockholders to attempt to gain a monopoly position in every market it enters. (Remember having a monopoly is not illegal, just using illegal means to maintain it.)
Next, who cares what IBM's intentions are? So what if they want to dominate hardware and services? Take the source and run! Ignore IBM's pleas to pay them to integrate. Hang up on the marketing rep when he tries to sell you hardware. Once you have the source, what the hell do you need IBM for? If you don't want IBM to be a focal point for change, fork the code!
Don't like "Tivoli Ready Modules"? Don't use 'em! Don't want to use VisualAge? Fine, who is going to stop you?
Exasperated at hair-trigger morons,
SirWired
IBM are really running a rearguard action here. There are already two good open-source Java server apps out there, Jakarta and Enhydra, and the currently available ones are significantly ahead of IBM's basic offering in terms of supporting the most recent versions of standards.
If IBM released the EJB container, on the other hand, that'd be cool. There isn't a halfway-decent free-as-in-liberty EJB implementation that I know of.
I work with Websphere Advanced Edition for my day-job and really like it, but I don't think I'd bother with the standard edition even if it were open-source - there's already enough code out there, and Websphere isn't particularly friendly to install or configure on *nix.
On the other hand, IBM have been really good lately about releasing Java stuff to the open-source community. The XML/XSLT packages that they donated to the Apache project are pretty damn funky, for example.
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How can OpenDOC need WPS. There are OpenDOC implementations on things that don't have WPS (such as NT and AIX.)
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
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IBM is really heading up on my respect-o-meter. Moving to Linux, making a very good JDK, and now Web Sphere. Cool.
info here find out more here
don't mod this up, it's just for reference. (ie, not insightful!)
I need a TiVo for my car. Pause live traffic now.
I would like to see Open Source implementations of the following.
OS/2> At least make it free for personal use. The bloody thing is still $200 or so. I mean it only gets used in a small market, so why not free it up? They can't possibly be making much money of it.
SOM> There needs to be a CORBA independant object model on free OSs. Nothing against CORBA, but there needs to be a lighter weight alternative.
OpenDOC> The perfect thing to boost up Linux. Of course both GNOME and KDE are working object models and embedding, but OpenDOC/SOM are both more mature, and a good deal lighter in weight. However, they might have problems opening this up due to the cooperation with Apple.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
bull-hockey!! while I agree with the first part (prevention of Sun or Microsoft to gain dominance), IBM is still out to be dominant. This is attempted (subtle distinction) not through creation of a new technology but rather assimilation and change of "popular" technologies as they set themselves up to be the source point for change
.. beware of large wooden gift horses ..
WebSphere includes "Tivoli Ready Modules" - is Tivoli open source? Integration with IBM VisualAge .. is this open source? and will most likely run best on AIX (ever look at the licensing structure for their O/S?) which will enable them to sell more hardware (where everyone knows the real $$ come from)
By positioning themselves in the middle of the market and jumping on the bandwagon to pigeonhole and point the finger at other companies, they make their own bad policies and practices less apparent. Ever look at the cost for IBM services? This is what they really want to sell and dominate.
Was OS/2 efficient? Yeah. It was stable, customizable, you name it. But OS/2 had a big problem: it was aimed at techies and geeks, while Windows was targeted at marketers and end users.
Guess who has the most power? Sorry, it's the end users, directors and marketers. OS/2's fate proves that. IBM obviously hasn't learned their lesson in the way they now approach the server market, because they're attempting it all over again by catering to Open Source geeks.
Careful that IBM doesn't accidentally kill the Open Source movement by mistake... If IBM corners the market as efficiently with WebSphere as it did with OS/2, expect Linux to go under within two years.
Now this has got to have both MS and Sun singing the blues. IBM, who currently has the fastest and best java implementation is promising to back C# if it gains status as an international standard. Ouch. Sun would lose its biggest ally on the Java front and MS would see its next attempt at world domination spinning out of Bill G's control.
I don't think it would set Sun back much - they said they might place support for C# "On Par", or equal to Java support. That doesn't mean they would abandon Java at all...
However, backing C# the language is not really very interesting at all unless they would also back IL, the intermediate language C# is compiled into. As far as I know that is not being sumitted to a standards body so Microsoft can change IL however it likes with each upgrade to C#, making sure everyone else (including IBM) plays catch-up to MS and can't really produce a good C# compiler. Plus there is the problem of convincing enough people to switch to C# when it offers only marginal benfits over Java.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Actually, I was reading a BYTE magazine circa 1993. It talked about OpenDoc and SOM and all. SOM reminded my of a COM with inheritance, it has CORBA complient (but didn't depend on it) and OpenDoc was pretty good as well. It just seemed that they were good technologies that never really caught on. However they had a lot of merit, and if IBM released them, then they might get another chance.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
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Mr. Ska
We *need* OpenDoc. We need a component model, and OpenDoc has all the features needed. IBM has already promised it will release OpenDoc as free software. We must email them and remind them of that promise!
Holy Cripes! That could have come straight from the mouth of RMS himself! Who would have ever guessed that a corporate behemoth like big blue could start to grok the true advantages of open source?
Now this has got to have both MS and Sun singing the blues. IBM, who currently has the fastest and best java implementation is promising to back C# if it gains status as an international standard. Ouch. Sun would lose its biggest ally on the Java front and MS would see its next attempt at world domination spinning out of Bill G's control.
And this is the part that really rocks my boat,
Perhaps I need to go find a copy of the annual report, but it seems to me that Lou is stating that IBM wants to go full fledged open source to be a pure hardware + services company. I could be wrong, but I don't see what other technological choke points there could be....