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Spam, ISPs, MAPS And Lawsuits
droleary writes: "Something of an update to this Slashdot article, a Yahoo News story reports that a number of large ISPs are caving in to a massive lawsuit brought by Harris Interactive regarding the delivery of their "online polls" (aka, spam, according to MAPS). I find it disturbing that large ISPs are so willing to let external agencies control what runs through their systems."
Case in point, the "free" internet access programs. Netzero, in truth, uses a Java interface which forces the user to view a window slightly larger than a banner ad (which displays banner ads 24/7, fetching a new one each second). This window cannot be closed during connection. Essentially, this taints Netzero's claim of "free internet"; it should be "Free with a 7 second bandwidth cutoff every minute." The only free internet service that I would recommend was Worldspy. It used a Java client to interface with Dial-Up Networking, but could be easily configured to dial directly from a Dial-Up Networking window (and perhaps even with KPPP - no sloth-like Java shell!). This was good until Juno bought Worldspy.
What does this have to do with the story? (Moderators, pay attention.) These ISPs are allowing ad agencies to steal bandwidth from unsuspecting users who hate AOL, but don't want to pay for an analog modem connection. This is probably the first case of legalized e-extortion: letting the ads prevail. Doubleclick.net is one of the more prevalent banner-ad agencies.
There is a way you can shut out these banner ad sites for good! How? By tricking your web browser into mapping the DNS entries to localhost! To do this, find the "hosts" file (stuck in \windows\system or \winnt\system32; I don't know where for Linux). Simply place entries in like this:
127.0.0.1 ad.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 m.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.1 ad-adex3.flycast.com 127.0.0.1 ads20.focalink.com (use the same spacing as existing entries [there should be one already that says "localhost"])When you go to pages which acquire banner ads from these sites, they will be replaced by either a "X" icon or a similar "Not Found" message (exactly the size of the banner ad!). This is a true sanity-saver and time-saver, even better than those cookie catcher programs.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
The original (and understandably biased) Harris Interactive press release which can be found at http://www.harrisinteractive.com/news/index.asp?Ne wsID=127&HI_election=HarrisInterac tive says:
Personally I think it's a perfect example of why the government should not create rules which govern Internet communications.
If it did we'd have technicalities causing the government to force us to pay for and eat spam day and night because some idiot corporation wants us to read it. MAPS on the other hand is a good example of the general population deciding whether they want to respect a certain organisation's judgement or not.
MAPS definitely has it's down side. If all the companies known to not use double opt-in were listed, nobody would use it. But that's also the strongest thing about it. If MAPS gets indiscriminite and lazy about listing organisations as spammers, nobody would use it.
===
> ISP's right to block incoming traffic to port 25 (MAPS blocking 23 known spam domains associated
> with "top web sites",), with some sort of censorship of traffic on port 80
>("By MAPS standards, 25 of the 25 web sites should be blocked")
The marketer knows the difference. He's just trusting that most of his readers won't.
Another case in point from the same guy - "23 of the top 25 web sites don't use the double opt-in".
The goal of the marketroid is to make "Hi. [IP address] signed you up. If that's really you, hit reply and verify that it was you" sound as inconvenient as possible.
Hence "double opt-in". There's no second opt-in, just a confirmation that's part of the single opt-in. But "double opt-in" sounds complicated and redundant.
To a marketroid, the goal is unverified opt-in, ("Hi! [Spam] To get more spam, hit reply! If you don't hit reply, we'll delete you from this list and opt you back in next week!") which is, as anyone with a mailbox knows, indistinguishable from opt-out: ("Hi. [Spam]. To get removed (and added to our sucker list), hit reply".)
Ever wonder why abortion rights advocates call themselves "pro-choice", not "pro-abortion"? Or why abortion rights opponents call themselves "pro-life", not "anti-abortion"?
Same shit, different smell.
If it comes out of a cow's ass, it's cowshit. If it comes out of a marketer's mouth, it's bullshit.
Same shit, same smell.
Beeing a sysadmin for a company with about 2000 users spam can really be a problem, especially if users start to complain about beeing bothered by spam or demanding to prevent mails like this.
Generally I think one should be able to decide wether he is willing to accept it or not, if I decide not to want spam and therefor Im using MAPS, RBL or other stuff it my decision and if they get forced to remove certain sites from their list, I'll be forced to maintain a manual blocking list also - it will be more work for me but still the same effect. So, if the spamming lists get compromised by legal decisions, it will be time for an "Additional Open Source Spamming List" as an addon.
You obviously don't get the point. Spam is seen as a cheap way to reach masses, because it doesn't cost the spammer. It costs the delivering ISP's, if you're trying to provide good service, and your pipe is plugged up by spam, then it's costing you your bandwidth. Harris is not paying for the ISP's bandwidth, so why should they get the privledge to use it??
b&
All but God can prove this sentence true.
But "23 of the top 25 Web sites don't use the double opt-in," Black said. "By MAPS standards, 23 of the 25 Web sites should be blocked."
In my opinion, yeah 23 of the top 25 web sites should be blocked from sending me e-mail. I'm sick of automatically getting a bunch of crap from web sites that I don't even frequent.
But if you look at the quote, he's not saying that at all. He's talking about blocking web sites, which of course, MAPS isn't about at all. I'm glad all those big corporations are cowering to such genius.
Here at where I work I'm trying to get them to add auto-filteration of spam for those who want it. (We already use MAPS and RBL). Basically it'll go through and if it's suspected to be spam, it'll add 'SPAM:' to the beginning of the Subject line in the email. On the user's end they can just set up filters to move all mail that have 'SPAM:' in their subject line to the trash.
This is something that all ISPs and web hosting companies should do besides just using RBL and MAPS.
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
I signed up for the Harris Poll long ago. Did a dozen Polls, got bored, and decided to get off their list. Unfortunately, it wasn't that easy...
To unsubscribe seems pretty simple, click on a link, enter your email address on some web page, hit "ok". Too bad it doesn't work right... it took me 6 or seven tries over a period of 6 months to get off their damn mailing list. I tried contacting humans over at harrispollonline.com, but never received a single response.
In the end, I was only partially successful.
I don't get any more invites to participate in Harris Polls, but I still get their damn Harris Poll Newsletter. I don't want to deal with this anymore, so I just filter all their stuff now.
Moral of this story: Harris Poll may not be Spam, but the mailing list is poorly run. Poorly run mailinglists deserve to get blocked until they fix the problem. If they don't suffer the consequences of getting blocked, then they will never fix the problem. Tough shit for them.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
There seems to be quite a lot of confusion about what the RBL actually is and does, so maybe it should be cleared up. Apologies for the length of this - it just kind of grew.
:-) To actually be placed on the RBL, an entity has to really work at it, and being removed is a lot easier than going on. There are other lists that MAPS run, but none of them are indiscriminate in what they block. Relay Spam Stopper, for instance, only lists a relay *after* it's been used (not as useless as it sounds :).
:-)
The Realtime Blackhole List is simply a list of IPs that have sent spam (or host spamware sites), and whose owners have refused to do anything about it. MAPS isn't "trigger happy" - in fact, many spam fighters wish they were faster, even if we can see why they aren't.
MAPS itself doesn't block anything. ISPs that subscribe to one or more of the various lists will generally just refuse connections from IPs listed in the RBL. There's no "erasing" of email going on - the sender gets a message saying that it was refused, so they can deal with it. If they don't, their ISPs mail server is seriously broken.
If you don't like the idea of an ISP filtering email for you, even based on the fact that anything in the RBL is almost certain to be junk mail, then talk to your ISP and see if they'll make an exception for you. Trying to get MAPS closed down is a stupid reaction.
Harris' suit is also a stupid reaction. They may or may not succeed in bullying companies to override the RBL on their servers, but the longer this goes on, the more filters (private and otherwise) they're being placed in. They're already in mine, for example, and they're not coming out. Ever. I'm a lot less forgiving than the RBL.
Hope this reduces the mess, anyway, so we get a somewhat more intelligent collection of articles than we did last time this came up.
TCPREMOTEIP=`/usr/local/bin/origip.pl || echo 127.0.0.1`
:0 /usr/local/bin/rblcheck -q "$TCPREMOTEIP";
:0 fwh
:0
* ! ? if [ -n "$TCPREMOTEIP" ]; then
fi
{
SUBJECT=`formail -zx Subject: || echo "no subject"`
| formail -I "Subject: SPAM: ${SUBJECT}"
}
${DEFAULT}
Now they know how it feels when I have to sort through hundreds of "SELL YOUR PRODUCTS ON THE INTERNET!" spams.
Rather than take responsibility for the time they are wasting and the money they are costing us (and spam DOES cost you money -- whether you realize it or not), they would rather place the burden on you, the consumer.
Because I signed up for them. At one point many of the polls offered chances to win something if you completed the poll, and that was why I signed up. I learned about it through a web page, not unsolicited messages. I haven't bothered to fill out a poll in while, and most of them don't even offer prizes anymore, so it's probably time to save some bandwidth and drop that list.
But I would be pretty annoyed if my ISP blocked those emails. If I can't get email I request, then my ISP is not providing the service I'm paying for.
An ISP should not apply the MAPS blocking list to any user who hasn't requested it -- you should have to opt-in, just like for the emails.
Yes, I am that kind of person. If you don't like your job, you should quit, and find a better one. I don't use Windows, because I don't like it. If school isn't your thing, well, then maybe you shouldn't go. There's no use whining about a problem when you should be doing something to remedy it instead. I guess there are some people who actually want to receive spam, but you have to keep in mind that it's not just the users who are affected by it. Being on the RBL can cure many headaches for sysadmins simply because they don't have to deal with all the extra crap going through their servers. If you really must have your spam, you can sign up for a Hotmail account. Don't tell me infinite free email services don't exist.
"Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try."
Actually maps has a press release they sent out yesterday:
h tml
h tml
http://mail-abuse.org/pressreleases/2000-09-08.
Good chunks:
. "They insist on using dirty email lists, which contain the email addresses of people who do not want to receive their email, and who did not themselves sign up to receive email from Harris".
Ahh - so they are buying internet lists and sending them to people. Now thats not even single opt-in. Ok so thats a BIG problem. I dont want my e-mail address reaped just because I posted to slashdot once.
Another good snippet:
We are absolutely fine with Hotmail and AOL deciding to let Harris email enter their system" continued Thompson. "In fact this is how our system was designed to work, and it confirms our position in this lawsuit! MAPS does not dictate policy to anybody - we simply publish a list of Internet addresses known to originate or enable spam - what the individual Internet service providers ("ISPs")choose do with that information is up to them. They can choose to block email from those addresses, or, as AOL and Hotmail have done, they can choose to accept it. Perhaps now that Harris sees that MAPS does not control whether their email is accepted or rejected by the ISPs, they will realize that suing us makes very little sense indeed. We are entitled to publish our opinion, and in fact are guaranteed a right to do so by the First Amendment."
-- Thats right, *I* choose what I want to accept on my mail system, and I trust maps to be an introducer of what I want (or do not want) to receive. And yes I can choose to accept mail from RBL'd sites, but I would not want someone to force me to accept their mail. That smacks too much of losing my rights.
If I dont want to listen to what someone has to say, why should I be forced to? If i dont want someone to send me files that fill up *my* disk, take cpu resources, why should I have to?
I think maps is great in what they do, and I hope they win,
Harris already lost their request of a Temporary restraining order agains maps, and I hope its the first of a long line of losses against them. Link:
http://mail-abuse.org/pressreleases/2000-08-08.
You can show your support for maps by
mailing comments@mail-abuse.org (see http://www.mail-abuse.org) for info.
I think maps is doing a GREAT service, and I hope Paul and Nick, and the others keep fighting and dont give in.
-- C