Or in other words, what is wrong with more choices? Someone forcing you to use them? Someone confiscating the tools you already have?
You sound like yet another "I am the expert, do it my way, and no other."
Especially considering the loudest yell against M$ is that they take away choices, and Linux restores them, this is really hypocritical. And add another shot of hyprocisy for this choice from Borland being a burr under M$'s saddle, which would seem to make them natural partners in crime with the Linux zealots who scream against M$ being the anti-choice devil.
RAD is not a bad reflection of our times.
by
The+Optimizer
·
· Score: 5
As someone who has regularrly used both Micrsoft's Visual C++ and Borland C++ Builder for the past 4 years, I can answer in word: NO
Let me sum it up this way: If it was all about "Programming as a pure art form" we wouldn't ever be using Windows, X Windows or any other layer between us and the computer. We would write our own display drivers, window managers, (G)UI stuff, etc, etc ad nausum...
It has very little to do with the tools/languages/compilers and an awful lot to do with the programmer and his circumstances. It sound like that in your situation you are being pushed too fast, regardless of the tools you have at your disposal.
And that's all each RAD product is: Another (alibet very powerful) tool there for you to choose ot not choose.
In the past 4 years, I've written some code that I believe was fricking awesome code. Some of it was in Assembler, some in straight C++, some using C++ builder. And in the past 4 years I've written a smaller amount of code that would qualify as anti-awsome. Some it was in straight C++, some in C++ builder (None in assembler,;-) The choice of development tools was a non-factor.
Borland's development environment and components don't take away my opprotunities for creative expression in code; rather they take away much of the drudgery. I wrote my own window-button-click code back in '89. I got tired of re-writing it by '92. Now I'm glad it's taken care of --- UNLESS- I have a reason to monkey with it - in which case the VCL lets me jump in and do just that. RAD never took away the cool/unique parts of the appiclations I wrote, they just let me spend a larger percentage of my time budget on them.
As a person experienced with both (Borland's) RAD development, and the more traditional approach I 110% agree with the following statement:
Apart from the Delphi developers, Kylix also brings hundreds of thousands of applications, built in Delphi today, ported with Kylix tomorrow. On the first night that Kylix ships, we'll probably see more new Linux applications than we've seen in the past few months...
Kylix will be a huge boon for Linux by providing the reason that will give non-geek users the opprotunity to try it: applications that mean something to them.
Project Kylix - Native Rapid Application Development for Linux.
What is Project Kylix?
The goal of Project Kylix is to produce a high-performance Rapid Application
Development (RAD) development tool for Linux. RAD here means component-based, two-way
visual development of your user-interface (GUI), database, internet, and server
applications. Development tool means a high-speed native Delphi/C/C++ compiler for
linux.
Project Kylix should also simplify the porting of existing Delphi and C++Builder
applications between Windows and Linux
--
Windows2000: Where do you think you're going today?
Rapid Application Development...
by
Phokus
·
· Score: 4
Does anyone here agree with me that R.A.D. is really a bad reflection of our times? In our fast paced economy, we MUST do everything fast in order to survive. Programming used to be considered an art, we used to actually put our ideas on paper before we even entered a key stroke. Now what do we do? We spew out half baked code in order to meet demand.
Honestly, this is more of a pity post more than anything else. I work for a company that almost demands that i put speed ahead of quality, and i have friends in the same situation as well. Anyone else have this problem?
I've spent the last 1,5 years programming in Delphi and it rocks. I love the language. It's easy to learn, produces fast and small executables and helps producing high quality apps.
People coming from a Visual Basic background will notice that that Delphi is just as easy but it's a lot faster and really made the right way. The class libraries make sense and you can create new components really easy. After programming a few years in VB, there's no way I'll go back to the old monster.
Delphi is also a lot easier than C. The language helps you avoid errors. I suppose Object Pascal is a good language to learn before C(++)
But the greatest thing about Delphi will be Kylix. It will be a pleasure to port our software for Linux. I really think Borland did a great decision. Kylix will give them a good start as Linux still lacks Visual Basic. It can really become the state of the art RAD tool for Linux and that will also help them gain markets in the Windows world.
Oh, you may also want to have a look at Lazarus, which is open source. It looks like Kylix will be ready first but Lazarus and the Free Pascal Compiler look good. I already use FPC for small apps and hope to get a strong alternative for Kylix which would boost competition and quality in both.
Re:Sure, here's how pascal works:
by
Sneakums
·
· Score: 3
Beside, any language that relies on pointers should be shot immediatly
Leaving aside for a moment the question of exactly how one would shoot a language, I must point out that pointers are not bad. What is is bad is the unthinking use of random pointer arithmetic.
It's worth noting that every language that is any use at all uses pointers: Lisp, Pascal, Java and of course C and C++. They differ in how exposed to the programmer the pointers are. Java, for example, has an annoying impedance mismatch where objects are passed by reference but things like ints and chars are passed by value.
--
"Where, where is the town? Now, it's nothing but flowers!"
The all important screenshots...
by
baywulf
·
· Score: 4
For all those asking (because the site is/.ed) Kylix is Inprise/Borland's version of Delphi (and later C++ Builder) for Linux.
It includeds a (Qt based) visual form designer, an OO-language (Object Pascal), great database tools and a cross platform OO class library called CLX (which supplements the Windows only VCL).
It will support application developement for KDE, GNOME (or at least GNOME aware, but non-GTK apps) and Apache modules.
I believe that Kylix is going to be a breakthough app for the Linux desktop. Many large companies have many apps written in Delphi (and VB). Rewritting these apps in C/C++ isn't an option, and Scripting languages like Python/Perl don't have the tool support for writing these GUI database applications. Kylix is going after that market, and knowing Borland's reputation for writing good programming tools, I'm looking forward to it.
Slashdot Mirror
Which is why - of course! - Hemos's editorial comment is the shortest all day.
--
"Don't declare a revolution unless you are prepared to be guillotined." - Anon.
Classical Liberalism: All your base are belong to you.
Or in other words, what is wrong with more choices? Someone forcing you to use them? Someone confiscating the tools you already have?
You sound like yet another "I am the expert, do it my way, and no other."
Especially considering the loudest yell against M$ is that they take away choices, and Linux restores them, this is really hypocritical. And add another shot of hyprocisy for this choice from Borland being a burr under M$'s saddle, which would seem to make them natural partners in crime with the Linux zealots who scream against M$ being the anti-choice devil.
Gaaakkk.
--
Infuriate left and right
As someone who has regularrly used both Micrsoft's Visual C++ and Borland C++ Builder for the past 4 years, I can answer in word: NO
;-) The choice of development tools was a non-factor.
Let me sum it up this way: If it was all about "Programming as a pure art form" we wouldn't ever be using Windows, X Windows or any other layer between us and the computer. We would write our own display drivers, window managers, (G)UI stuff, etc, etc ad nausum...
It has very little to do with the tools/languages/compilers and an awful lot to do with the programmer and his circumstances. It sound like that in your situation you are being pushed too fast, regardless of the tools you have at your disposal.
And that's all each RAD product is: Another (alibet very powerful) tool there for you to choose ot not choose.
In the past 4 years, I've written some code that I believe was fricking awesome code. Some of it was in Assembler, some in straight C++, some using C++ builder. And in the past 4 years I've written a smaller amount of code that would qualify as anti-awsome. Some it was in straight C++, some in C++ builder (None in assembler,
Borland's development environment and components don't take away my opprotunities for creative expression in code; rather they take away much of the drudgery. I wrote my own window-button-click code back in '89. I got tired of re-writing it by '92. Now I'm glad it's taken care of --- UNLESS- I have a reason to monkey with it - in which case the VCL lets me jump in and do just that. RAD never took away the cool/unique parts of the appiclations I wrote, they just let me spend a larger percentage of my time budget on them.
As a person experienced with both (Borland's) RAD development, and the more traditional approach I 110% agree with the following statement:
Apart from the Delphi developers, Kylix also brings hundreds of thousands of applications, built in Delphi today, ported with Kylix tomorrow. On the first night that Kylix ships, we'll probably see more new Linux applications than we've seen in the past few months...
Kylix will be a huge boon for Linux by providing the reason that will give non-geek users the opprotunity to try it: applications that mean something to them.
Project Kylix - Native Rapid Application Development for Linux.
What is Project Kylix?
The goal of Project Kylix is to produce a high-performance Rapid Application Development (RAD) development tool for Linux. RAD here means component-based, two-way visual development of your user-interface (GUI), database, internet, and server applications. Development tool means a high-speed native Delphi/C/C++ compiler for linux. Project Kylix should also simplify the porting of existing Delphi and C++Builder applications between Windows and Linux
Windows2000: Where do you think you're going today?
Honestly, this is more of a pity post more than anything else. I work for a company that almost demands that i put speed ahead of quality, and i have friends in the same situation as well. Anyone else have this problem?
I've spent the last 1,5 years programming in Delphi and it rocks. I love the language. It's easy to learn, produces fast and small executables and helps producing high quality apps.
People coming from a Visual Basic background will notice that that Delphi is just as easy but it's a lot faster and really made the right way. The class libraries make sense and you can create new components really easy. After programming a few years in VB, there's no way I'll go back to the old monster. Delphi is also a lot easier than C. The language helps you avoid errors. I suppose Object Pascal is a good language to learn before C(++)
But the greatest thing about Delphi will be Kylix. It will be a pleasure to port our software for Linux. I really think Borland did a great decision. Kylix will give them a good start as Linux still lacks Visual Basic. It can really become the state of the art RAD tool for Linux and that will also help them gain markets in the Windows world.
Oh, you may also want to have a look at Lazarus, which is open source. It looks like Kylix will be ready first but Lazarus and the Free Pascal Compiler look good. I already use FPC for small apps and hope to get a strong alternative for Kylix which would boost competition and quality in both.
Leaving aside for a moment the question of exactly how one would shoot a language, I must point out that pointers are not bad. What is is bad is the unthinking use of random pointer arithmetic.
It's worth noting that every language that is any use at all uses pointers: Lisp, Pascal, Java and of course C and C++. They differ in how exposed to the programmer the pointers are. Java, for example, has an annoying impedance mismatch where objects are passed by reference but things like ints and chars are passed by value.
--
"Where, where is the town? Now, it's nothing but flowers!"
http://www.drbob42.com/kylix/hotshots.htm
For all those asking (because the site is /.ed) Kylix is Inprise/Borland's version of Delphi (and later C++ Builder) for Linux.
It includeds a (Qt based) visual form designer, an OO-language (Object Pascal), great database tools and a cross platform OO class library called CLX (which supplements the Windows only VCL).
It will support application developement for KDE, GNOME (or at least GNOME aware, but non-GTK apps) and Apache modules.
More info at http://www.borland.com/kylix/
I believe that Kylix is going to be a breakthough app for the Linux desktop. Many large companies have many apps written in Delphi (and VB). Rewritting these apps in C/C++ isn't an option, and Scripting languages like Python/Perl don't have the tool support for writing these GUI database applications. Kylix is going after that market, and knowing Borland's reputation for writing good programming tools, I'm looking forward to it.