Slashdot Mirror
Slashnet Forum Chat Log
Quite a number of people have e-mailed me wondering about a log for Thursday night's chat. Well, the fine folks at Slashnet have put together a a HTML version and a text version. Again, thanks to all who participated - we hope to do it again soon.
There is such a thing as karma. Not slashdot karma, but in real life. What goes around comes around, and you'll get yours eventually. Think about it.
I watch the sea.
I saw it on TV.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
This really surprised me:
/. readers that Signal 11 is not an idiot. A karma whore? Sure, but I'm certain there are people who enjoy reading his comments occasionally. After all, they do get moderated up quite frequently (I suppose this is where you could argue that the moderation system is broken).
/. team really have bigger fish to fry. So what if Sig is a karma whore? There are much bigger problems in the moderation system and with trolls (although I don't think the moderation system is irrepairably broken).
/. doesn't want to move to that kind of moderation system in part because of pride. But pride shouldn't stand in the way of a better system.
CmdrTaco: Signal 11 is an idiot.
I think it's pretty clear to
CmdrTaco: I am not a corporate drone (despite what the conspiracy theorists think).
I think it's pretty clear that Rob is saying what he feels. But I think it's gotten to the point where it's unprofessional. Why attack one person with name-calling in a public forum? As others have said, Slashdot has entered the "big time" - much more so now with the aquisition by Andover. I think one thing that needs to stop is the unprofessional behavior by some of the Slashdot staff. Calling your posters idiots or interjecting unfounded opinions while reporting a news story is truly a black eye on this forum.
I'm not trying to defend Signal 11, I'm just saying that CmdrTaco and the
Since I don't want to be one of those people who complains about a problem but doesn't offer a solution, I'll say this: I think Kuro5hin's moderation system is pretty good. Instead of me giving a comment an extra point with a +1 moderation, I'd like to be able to say, "this comment deserves a +3." I do get the feeling, though, that
-- "Complacency is a far more dangerous attitude than outrage." -Naomi Littlebear
Though I'm not exactly sure why CmdrTaco and company dislike Signal 11 now, Signal 11 personifies everything that is wrong with slashdot. He was the most effective and the most vocal personality for, what I call, the slashdot junior crowd. Everything he said was a targeted populism, designed to strike a cord with this crowd. To see that sort of idiocy, the lack of questioning, elevated as "journalism" really turns me (and i'm sure many others) off. It's not that I can't tolerate idiots--I know there will always be plenty of them out there. But to see it gain acceptance, to see everything being painted in broad strokes of black and white, and to see it be swallowed by a significant majority sickens me.
n ts). Slashdot knows on some level that they risk alienating this crowd, and this crowd is exclusively what slashdot has managed to capitalize on. Thus they will continue to insure that the flames are fanned, even if they could design effective moderation.
That being said, I sincerely doubt this is the reason why slashdot dislikes him now. In fact, the longer I stay here, the more it becomes apparent to me that this style of slashdot is what they love. Whether they admit it, or not, I know they profit from the lack of balanced and reasonable discussion. While an effective moderation system that could attain both balance and reason would be worthwhile, I don't believe it could ever draw the kinds of crowds that slashdot does, or can. Put simply, people don't come here for balanced journalism; they come here to argue and/or bitch. Balanced journalism is never going to draw people the way it does now, where they hit reload and literally spend hours a day here.
Slashdot is basically a necessarily niche product/service. It draws a certain audience, its loyal reloading 24-7 audience, in alarming proportions (i.e., young/techie/sub-professional/passionate/malconte
It's a real shame too. Although I'm skeptical, if any open system could ever attain real journalistic quality, the potential benefits of anything even approaching that are too great to ignore. Slashdot, the one place that has the visibility and credibility (misplaced though it may be), refuses to make a real effort towards that goal. My hope is that a significant percentage of the audience grows tired of this routine, and demands a more mature discussion....
[22:58] ùíù CmdrTaco [~malda@0.0.0.0] has joined #trolls ;)
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/.-term, who else?
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/jail/ for that if
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[22:59] <TheReverand> yeah
[22:59] <TheReverand> hell yeah
[22:59] ùíù mode/#trolls [+v CmdrTaco] by ater
[22:59] <CmdrTaco> not done yet
[22:59] <CmdrTaco> gimme a bit.
[22:59] <OOG_THE_CAVEMAN> TACO!!!
[22:59] <TheReverand> that's coolk
[22:59] <Trollmastah> Hey bud, Nice Job, Thanks
[22:59] <Trollmastah> See I told you we'd be good.
[23:00] <Trollmastah> See if We can get Jeff for a few
minutes
[23:00] <ater> yeah that would 0wn
[23:01] <ater> brb
[23:01] <Trollmastah> osm, You still in Kansas?
[23:01] ùíù SignOff ater: #trolls (Quit: Leaving)
[23:01] <CmdrTaco> jeff needs to go to bed.
[23:01] <osm> missouri, actually
[23:01] <CmdrTaco> he has a kid and shit
[23:01] <Trollmastah> Thanks Rob, That was pretty good
[23:02] <timothy> I think he'd be a fun dad.
[23:02] <OOG_THE_CAVEMAN> heh
[23:02] <OOG_THE_CAVEMAN> wow
[23:02] <Trollmastah> His Mrs. Is pregnant? How'd that
happen??
[23:02] ùíù ater [ater@cloaked.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has
joined #trolls
[23:03] <timothy> I think I'd be a fun dad, too.
[23:03] ùíù mode/#trolls [+o ater] by OOG_THE_CAVEMAN
[23:03] <osm> my boss's wife recently had a baby who she is
breastfeeding.
[23:03] <Trollmastah> How old are you?? I'm a dad 4 times
over
[23:03] <osm> i saw it puke up mother's milk yesterday
[23:03] <Trollmastah> Yuk
[23:03] <osm> i have been turned off kids forever
[23:03] <ater> wow
[23:04] <Trollmastah> How did it taste?
[23:04] <ater> im still a friggin kid
[23:04] <osm> that was emotionally scarring
[23:04] <em> ouch, just got out of #forum... heheh
[23:04] <Trollmastah> I think you were pretty scarred
already
[23:04] <osm> you're probably right.
[23:04] <AOC> so taco, how many emails / day do you get
complaining about trolls?
[23:05] <CmdrTaco> not that many.
[23:05] <timothy> breastfeeding is amazing.
[23:05] <Trollmastah> Your pretty good about responding to
ours.
[23:05] <CmdrTaco> most email just says "Slashdot is broken"
[23:05] <ater> yeah
[23:05] <CmdrTaco> and they use the acts of a dozen trolls
as proof.
[23:06] <TheReverand> heh
[23:06] <Trollmastah> But it's not. Don't they get it. It's
worknig just fine. Don't fic it if it isnt broken
[23:06] <CmdrTaco> I don't mind some of trolls. Some of them
are uncool.
[23:06] <osm> timothy: you just have to see that mucousy
white fluid one time... it'll make your spine crawl.
[23:06] <em> well, it's working better now with the cap,
IMHO...
[23:06] <AOC> jesus, it's like bnet's channel=trade over in
#forum
[23:06] <OOG_THE_CAVEMAN> yeah i seriously dont have an
issue with it
[23:06] <CmdrTaco> Like the ones that post hundreds of
comments.
[23:06] <TheReverand> So taco what was up with michael
today? That was really not cool
[23:06] <Trollmastah> Sorry
[23:06] <OOG_THE_CAVEMAN> i just like trolling
[23:07] <Trollmastah> Good thread today all in all though.
Quite spirited
[23:07] <TheReverand> Yeah I had a blast
[23:07] <timothy> I dunno, I think he was speaking honestly.
There are a lot of destructive posts, the equivalent of
earpoking, my new favorite analogy.
[23:07] <TheReverand> heh
[23:07] <timothy> Look
[23:07] <OOG_THE_CAVEMAN> well
[23:07] <Trollmastah> Rob, Who was the first Bitchslap? Was
it a bot we never heard about?
[23:07] <em> but he was addressing it at the wrong people...
[23:08] <timothy> when I walk around a town with kids, I
tell them funny stories, most of which aren't true.
[23:08] <timothy> That's trolling, maybe, in the idealized,
"just another voice sense."
[23:08] <OOG_THE_CAVEMAN> yeah, i dont think he should have
called that random poster a troll
[23:08] <CmdrTaco> only a couple dozen folks were ever bitch
slapped.
[23:08] ð ater/#trolls coughs at osm
[23:08] <TheReverand> Seriously, 99% of the stuff I post I
really believe, it is just considered trolling around here
[23:08] <CmdrTaco> conspiracy theorists just used it as
their random complaint.
[23:08] <timothy> If I told them pornographic stories, threw
a few down manholes, and got some lost on purpose just to
make them cry, that's the usual trolling reality.
[23:08] <ater> yeah
[23:08] <TheReverand> I am NOT slashdot correct
[23:09] <Trollmastah> Does that include some of our doubles?
*Grin*
[23:09] <osm> thanks, ater... i'm proud of my bitchslapping
[23:09] <em> same for me...
[23:09] <ater> all my Emerson Willowick stuff is just a
scary bigot version of myself
[23:09] <em> yup. me too
[23:09] <CmdrTaco> we know who is doubles.
[23:09] <Trollmastah> Me Too! Sort of a -two crew.
[23:09] <CmdrTaco> thats the sad thing.
[23:09] <ater> yeah i guessed
[23:09] <CmdrTaco> you guys are a lot less numerous then you
pretend to be.
[23:09] <em> Estanislao is me, but with a huge ego and no
compassion
[23:09] <TheReverand> ha
[23:09] <timothy> I am probably the most likely of the
slashdot authors (well, cliff and me both) to defent MS on
certain points
flamebait.
[23:09] <CmdrTaco> thats the thing that makes it so
frustering.
[23:09] <Trollmastah> Yeah, but in the long run ""It's all
good"
[23:10] <ater> why so
[23:10] <CmdrTaco> if 25 people shut up, trolling Slashdot
would be virtually non existant.
[23:10] <Trollmastah> Yup
[23:10] <ater> fair
[23:10] <TheReverand> Hey Taco, any doubles WE don't know
about ?
[23:10] <AOC> which would be a shame, in my opinion
[23:10] <CmdrTaco> I could work 8 hour days.
[23:10] <Trollmastah> Actually it's more like 12
[23:10] <CmdrTaco> I would get 1/2 the flame.
[23:10] <CmdrTaco> I could take a day off occasionally.
[23:10] <ater> hm
[23:10] <CmdrTaco> maybe see my girlfriend.
[23:11] <TheReverand> Yeah but you drive a BMW
[23:11] <timothy> speaking of day off, have a good tomorrow.
[23:11] <CmdrTaco> not have sore wrists 3 out of 5 days.
[23:11] <CmdrTaco> a *leased* BMW
[23:11] <Trollmastah> You don't get real flame from us do
you? Most of our correspondence with you has been very on
the level.
[23:11] <TheReverand> heh
[23:11] <CmdrTaco> I don't get flame *from* you.
[23:11] <TheReverand> about us I think
[23:11] <CmdrTaco> I get flame because slashdots moderation
system is evil and corrupt.
[23:11] <Trollmastah> I get it.
[23:11] <ater> i honestly think most of the vocal people
would always be finding some shit to complain about
[23:11] <timothy> keybaords don't hurt wrists
trackballs hurt wrists.
[23:11] <CmdrTaco> and about 25 people are the whole reason.
[23:11] <AOC> do away with moderation then
[23:11] <CmdrTaco> oh yeah, that'd help.
[23:11] <timothy> CmdrTaco: on your special chair keyboard,
what is the pointing device?
[23:12] <CmdrTaco> I don't have that anymore, but it was a
touch pad.
[23:12] <osm> have you bitchslapped all of the 25?
[23:12] <CmdrTaco> nah.
[23:12] <ater> just you osm
[23:12] <CmdrTaco> I bet only like 5 non-bots were ever
bitchslapped.
[23:12] <CmdrTaco> maybe 10.
[23:12] <ater> think of it as a gift to natalie
[23:12] <TheReverand> Slashdot-Terminal!!!
[23:12] <AOC> true... trolling maybe an easy route for the
whiners to take, but it wouldn't stop there... there's
always another siggy
[23:12] <Trollmastah> Complaining. what a bunch u\of
professional victims. Those guys have nothing better to do
thankn complan\in about the forum.
[23:12] <CmdrTaco> thats the sad part.
[23:12] <osm> maybe you should... i think it's fair.
[23:12] <em> osm, kp,
[23:12] <osm> i'm perfectly happy posting at -1
[23:12] <ater> pbg
[23:12] <ater> syringe
[23:12] <TheReverand> ttm
[23:13] <em> but pbg and syring are bots, right?
[23:13] <Trollmastah> Your management of siggy was great.
[23:13] <ater> basically
[23:13] <CmdrTaco> several of those were bots.
[23:13] <AOC> and your management of vlad was great
[23:13] <CmdrTaco> I don't even remember these guys.
[23:13] <em> except for when you had to take back the "no
code for one person" bit...
[23:13] <Trollmastah> me
[23:13] <ater> well aside from oog
[23:13] <CmdrTaco> thats the thing, I don't keep track.
Usually I don't even read names.
[23:13] <ater> if i did most of my posts as normally how i
felt
[23:13] <osm> signal 11... god, i wish i'd flamed him more.
[23:13] <CmdrTaco> I just read the comments from a single
person.
[23:13] <ater> id still be branded a troll
[23:14] <ater> and im sure the same goes for the rest of us
here
[23:14] <timothy> signal11 did send in some good posts
sometimes. But he also acted rudely, far more often.
[23:14] <Trollmastah> He shot me a \note, you got to him
pretty good.
[23:14] <CmdrTaco> go after him on k5.
[23:14] <CmdrTaco>
[23:14] <TheReverand> same here
[23:14] <osm> i wish i could
[23:14] <CmdrTaco> He's a self righteous twit.
[23:14] <CmdrTaco> He thinks he's *so* important.
[23:14] <Trollmastah> You have a mean streak
[23:14] <em> the problem with siggy is he had so much karma
he could just do mental diarrhea...
[23:14] <CmdrTaco> It only rears its head once in a great
while.
[23:14] <CmdrTaco>
[23:14] <ater> heh
[23:14] <CmdrTaco> I'm very huggable
[23:14] <osm> i didn't realize how much so til i read his
little farewell speech... what an ass.
[23:14] <CmdrTaco> but sig11 pushed me to far.
[23:14] <Trollmastah> What happened to the fastdoc account?
[23:14] <timothy> why does that phrase keep coming up?!
[23:14] <CmdrTaco> he wrote me email like that all the time.
[23:15] <CmdrTaco> he was a pest.
[23:15] <CmdrTaco> he bitched about me every chance he got.
he thought he was so important to me.
[23:15] <timothy> ("I'm very huggable"?)
[23:15] <CmdrTaco> so I told him off.
[23:15] <AOC> fascdotkilledmypr started back around the same
time as MEEPT
[23:15] <ater> yeah i heard some fascdot references on
#forum but didnt see them
[23:15] <Trollmastah> Tim, not here dude.
[23:15] <ater> was fascdot a joke account too
[23:15] <AOC> no
[23:16] <Trollmastah> Sure it was
[23:16] <ater> so that guy really was a prick
[23:16] <TheReverand> Who's Joke was it?
[23:16] <TheReverand> That's the Question
[23:16] <AOC> if I recall correctly, he had a bunch of
"SlashdotSucksMyNuts" accounts and spammed all over the
place with them
[23:16] <Trollmastah> Rob, Did you really think the
Trollmastah account was a bot? That's flattering in sick
sort of way.
[23:16] <ater> ahh back before my times
[23:16] <ater> im a friggin youngin
[23:17] <CmdrTaco> I don't usually attach nicknames to
posters.
[23:17] <TheReverand> AOC that was me as "fascdot licks mah
ba" and IO only folwed him around
[23:17] <ater> lol i remember that
[23:17] <CmdrTaco> I don't think "I think user Bob is a
Troll"
[23:17] <AOC> no, this was before he showed up as fascdot
[23:17] <CmdrTaco> I find a user who is a bot.
[23:17] <TheReverand> aah
[23:17] <CmdrTaco> then I look.
[23:17] <CmdrTaco> I usually don't even check who it is.
[23:17] <CmdrTaco> thats the thing.
[23:17] <ater> aside from the spammers i dont see how trolls
could be a problem here
[23:18] <timothy> there's no policy against multi accounts,
right?
[23:18] <Trollmastah> Cool. I saw that on your K5 thread
with Siggy and got a kick out of it/
[23:18] <CmdrTaco> Folks think that I had "User Y" and user
Y gets a stick up his ass. Then he bitches. But I've never
*heard* of user Y.
[23:18] <ater> oh
[23:18] <CmdrTaco> Multi-accounts are fine as long as they
aren't abused.
[23:18] -Global(services@services.slashnet.org)- A log of
the Slashdot forum can be obtained from
http://www.slashnet.org/forums/Slashdot-05Oct00
[23:18] <Trollmastah> Did you post that troll on the 10
grams sid?
[23:18] <CmdrTaco> if I see script behavior, they get
banned.
[23:18] <CmdrTaco> yeah.
[23:18] <CmdrTaco> I did
[23:18] <TheReverand> HA
[23:18] <CmdrTaco> suckers
[23:18] <ater> cool
[23:18] <TheReverand> THat RULED
[23:18] <TheReverand> It was all over the mailing list
[23:18] <AOC> that was excellent indeed
[23:19] <TheReverand> for about a week
[23:19] <Trollmastah> Thought so. Very funny, you had us
goin' for a while.
[23:19] <CmdrTaco> I got tons of mail from people who
thought it was real.
[23:19] <ater> i cant believe people fell for it
[23:19] <CmdrTaco> "You should know that someone haxx0red
you"
[23:19] <Trollmastah> I did
[23:19] <CmdrTaco> it was great.
[23:19] ð CmdrTaco/#trolls is the king of trolls.
[23:19] <ater> heh
[23:19] <Trollmastah> LMAO! Yup
[23:19] <ater> he's one of us
[23:19] <CmdrTaco> the difference is I doing once every
couple months instead of 100 comments per day.
[23:19] <timothy> I have a separate account because
sometimes I want to say something that is eitherless
diplomatic
associated only witth previous posts made by a particular
account.
[23:19] <AOC> we have more free time
[23:20] <ater> oh yes
[23:20] <Trollmastah> WaNNA BE ADDED TO THE MAILING LIST?
.. uMM eRRN nEVERMIND
[23:20] <CmdrTaco> I'd have more if you shut up a little.
[23:20] <Trollmastah> Understood
[23:20] <CmdrTaco> 25 people suck hundreds of hours of my
life.
[23:20] <ater> what exactly do you mean though... like spam,
offtopic shit, or Jon Erikson type trolls
[23:20] <timothy> I wonder if there are full-time trolls for
things like forums on the MS site, etc
[23:21] <TheReverand> I don't know I don't think that's
really fair, If people didn't know we were trolling they
wouldn't complain
[23:21] <osm> that's an idea, timothy!
[23:21] <timothy> ZDNet?
[23:21] <CmdrTaco> I WANT TO PRACTICE MY POWER CHORDS!
[23:21] <Trollmastah> What about the legal meta troll? Did
we have you going or just enable spam?
[23:21] <ater> the first 2 are things i try to limit from
time to time (except for OOG shit)
[23:21] <timothy> play Sweet Jane
[23:21] <TheReverand> I don't have time for this idiots"
[23:21] <ater> but if you mean like RWM trolls and stuff
like that i think its more an issue with the users
[23:21] <CmdrTaco> I don't typically fall for trolls.
[23:21] <timothy> I want to spend my free time with the
beautiful girls at the library who I can't even talk to
[23:21] <AOC> If people aren't complaining about trolls,
they'd be complaining about something else
[23:21] <CmdrTaco> but other people do, and they email me
and bitch.
[23:22] <CmdrTaco> like the troll that was 'Slashdot banned
me'
[23:22] <TheReverand> CmdrTaco YOu want some guitar lessons?
Nex Time I'm in Grand Rapids
[23:22] <Trollmastah> Not the effect we were looking for.
[23:22] <CmdrTaco> the cease and desist one.
[23:22] ð CmdrTaco/#trolls loves lessons.
[23:22] <ater> you mean the osm thing, heh
[23:22] <ater> ?
[23:22] <TheReverand> Give me some karma
[23:22] <osm> teehee
[23:22] <TheReverand> heh
[23:22] <CmdrTaco> I got hundreds of emails from angry
people.
[23:22] <AOC> you need an automated responder, rob: "YHBT
YHL HAND"
[23:22] <Trollmastah> Would you be interested in seeing the
troll demographics? We have 'em arround here somewhaere
[23:22] <CmdrTaco> "YOU FUCKING SUCK! HOW DARE YOU! YOU
HYPOCRIT!"
[23:22] <em> http://www.io.com/~zikzak/troll_thesis.html
[23:22] <osm> sorry about that man... i really didn't expect
it would get that much of a response.
[23:22] <TheReverand> ttm which demo's you talking about?
[23:23] <CmdrTaco> you have any idea how much shit that put
me through?
[23:23] <TheReverand> heh
[23:23] <CmdrTaco> I'm just a guy here, nobody deserves
that.
[23:23] <timothy> em - you in Austin?
[23:23] <ater> CmdrTaco: how bout the more usual stuff, like
Jon Erikson, Estanislao Martinez, Emerson Wilowick, etc?
[23:23] <em> no
[23:23] <em> timothy: no
[23:23] <CmdrTaco> I don't know nicks.
[23:23] <CmdrTaco> unless they look like bots, I don't care.
[23:23] <em> timothy: that was ZikZak
[23:23] <ater> CmdrTaco: ok, well im referring to the
"extremist" type trolls
[23:23] <timothy> em - ok, I just see the io link, and
they're in Tx, right.
[23:23] <CmdrTaco> I don't know them by name.
[23:23] <Trollmastah> The generic ones with
age/location/married etc. the list we started when we
started the mail list
[23:23] <em> yep
[23:23] <timothy> I was timothy@io.com for a bit
[23:24] <TheReverand> troll aha
[23:24] <TheReverand> I have that list
[23:24] <ater> the classic definition of troll if you will,
like posting flamebait
[23:24] <CmdrTaco> I don't care about the flamebait so much.
[23:24] <Trollmastah> It'd even tha playing field a little.
[23:24] <CmdrTaco> I care about intentionally lying to cause
someone else shit.
[23:24] <CmdrTaco> "Slashdot Did Lie X"
[23:24] <ater> ahh
[23:24] <CmdrTaco> thats the worst.
[23:24] <ater> i can understand that, i just avoid that shit
[23:24] <CmdrTaco> Or liable/slander stuffs.
[23:25] <CmdrTaco> like the bot posting Kathleen's home
phone number.
[23:25] <Trollmastah> It was all in fun, just got a little
out of hand
[23:25] <CmdrTaco> You know you can go to
I wasn't a good person.
[23:25] <CmdrTaco> not a joke.
[23:25] <osm> i don't think anyone here would do that
[23:25] <TheReverand> To be fair though, we only planned
that lawsuiot thing once, and we never actually named names
[23:25] ð timothy/#trolls is going to watch some TV now and
post from the couch.
[23:25] <ater> i was thinking of doing an "OOG_THE_CAVEMAN
gets sued my the producers of the Super Mario Brothers
cartoon" thing
[23:25] <CmdrTaco> you cna have the fucking FBI in your
house.
[23:25] <Trollmastah> The legal got out of hand, the phone
number was not us. We dont play like that
[23:25] <CmdrTaco> its *scary*
[23:25] <osm> i was getting death threats myself for a while
[23:25] <TheReverand> none of us would post personal info
that's just wrong
[23:25] <CmdrTaco> the phone number was syringe.
[23:25] <ater> yeah were good little trolls
[23:26] <AOC> goddam syringe
[23:26] <ater> ugh
[23:26] <timothy> someone post *my* girlfriend's number,
that's OK.
[23:26] <Trollmastah> Honestly, this is fun for us, we would
never intentionally screw with someone like that.
[23:26] <TheReverand> ha
[23:26] <osm> WE get screwed with like that.
[23:26] <CmdrTaco> I just wish you'd do it... less
[23:26] <TheReverand> Well we also wish you would have
posted Natalies Birthday!
[23:26] <CmdrTaco> the thing is that the slashdot moderation
system works really well.
[23:26] <Trollmastah> My wife posted my grlfriends number.
That sucked.
[23:27] <CmdrTaco> fuck natalies birthday.
[23:27] <CmdrTaco> that was retarted.
[23:27] <ater> damn
[23:27] <AOC> son of a bitch!
[23:27] <ater> we have married trolls?
[23:27] <osm> retarted?
[23:27] <osm> what does that mean?
[23:27] <ater> heh
[23:27] ð em/#trolls ducks
[23:27] <TheReverand> lol
[23:27] ð timothy/#trolls says goodnight to you all
[23:27] <ater> cya timothy
[23:27] ùíù timothy [~timothy@cloaked.dialup.mindspring.com]
has left #trolls []
[23:27] <em> night
[23:27] <CmdrTaco> but 25 or so users represent 75% of the
"Brokenness" in it.
[23:27] <osm> later, timothy
[23:27] <AOC> TIMMMMAH!
[23:27] <ater> hm
[23:27] <Trollmastah> Don't fuck with moderation, it does
work well. I say remove the cap. Part of the draw is the
gamesmanship.
[23:27] <em> nah, leave the cap op
[23:27] <em> nah, leave the cap on
[23:28] <TheReverand> Well have you seen the Fantasy Karma
Whore Game?
[23:28] <ater> in fairness id say that the trolls get lumped
with the troublemakers
[23:28] <Trollmastah> Ater, Dude, I'm 41, 4 kids adn a dog.
My life is over.
[23:28] <CmdrTaco> the cap works.
[23:28] <em> rev, you're just self-promoting right? you're
winning it
[23:28] <em>
[23:28] <CmdrTaco> wait till you see the next generation of
anti whoring code
[23:28] <TheReverand> em exactly
[23:28] <ater> i dont think ive seen rev, spiralx, and em do
something wrong
[23:28] <osm> lol, ttm
[23:28] <ater> Trollmastah: holy shit
[23:28] <ater> im just a 17 year old with no life
[23:28] <TheReverand> I find it hard to believe thast
everything PB says is so damned insightful
[23:29] <Trollmastah> PB LOL
[23:29] <em> he's user #1020, he's got 4-digit insights
[23:29] <TheReverand> or carnage4life
[23:29] <TheReverand> exactly
[23:29] <ater> heh
[23:29] <TheReverand> it's a game
[23:29] <TheReverand> Hell my astroturfin ass can stay at +2
all the damn time
[23:30] <ater> i found the best way to troll slashdot is to
post anything conservative
[23:30] <Trollmastah> It is a game. And trolling is just a
twist. Even the bitchslap was just another volly. Ag good
one too I might add. But it keeps us coming back.
[23:30] <AOC> taco voting for gore should provide some good
material
[23:30] <ater> dont vote gore, vote OOG!
[23:30] <Trollmastah> Go OOG go
[23:30] <ater> hellz yeah
[23:31] <ater> OOGs accepting the nomination tomorrow
[23:31] <TheReverand> I hope we don't all wake up
bitchslapped tomorrow morning
[23:31] <Trollmastah> Seriously Rob, Thanks for being so
sporting. We know you get spammed with crap, and we
understand. You've got a cool thing going here.
[23:31] <ater> true
[23:32] <TheReverand> Yeah and feel free to send all flames
you get about us to me
[23:32] <Trollmastah> Where's james Tonight? Changing Jobs
again?
[23:32] <ater> glad youre being a good guy about it
[23:32] <CmdrTaco> I just want you guys to understand
something.
[23:32] <Trollmastah> What?
[23:32] <CmdrTaco> You guys have caused me more shit then
any other thousand slashdot readers.
[23:32] <em> actually, send them to
k22320inchfan@methlab.nothing.org
[23:32] <TheReverand> there you go
[23:32] <CmdrTaco> I'm a human being and you're making my
life shittier.
[23:33] <AOC> there's a thousand trolls?
[23:33] <CmdrTaco> So at least be clever.
[23:33] <TheReverand> no AOC you idiot
[23:33] <CmdrTaco> Don't post fucking lame crap.
[23:33] <ater> if ive caused anything, then my aplogies
[23:33] <CmdrTaco> Don't post so often.
[23:33] <CmdrTaco> 1/2 the trolling, twice the brains.
[23:33] <Trollmastah> Not intended, we don't want to fsck up
you life, again it's just in fun. We'll try to be more
suble.
[23:33] <CmdrTaco> You'd make my life a helluva lot easier.
[23:33] <TheReverand> Hey I never even get up to 50 posts in
my history
[23:33] <ater> all right, but I am going through with oog
for president before i retire him
[23:34] <em> I'm in retirement myself...
[23:34] <ater> yeah im too lazy to get 50 posts
[23:34] <TheReverand> same here
[23:34] <CmdrTaco> oog is so lame.
[23:34] <TheReverand> It's more of just a reading kind of
thing now
[23:34] <TheReverand> NOOOOOOO
[23:34] <CmdrTaco> thats the worst of them.
[23:34] <Trollmastah> I only post about twice a week.
Although I used to post a little bit more
[23:34] <CmdrTaco> creativeity of a chimp.
[23:34] <osm> i have a job in the mortgage business, i can't
post as much
[23:34] <ater> heh i agree
[23:34] <CmdrTaco> used to post fucking way to much.
[23:34] <ater> im wondering how the fuck people liked it
[23:34] <CmdrTaco> oog is like a poop joke.
[23:34] <CmdrTaco> 3rd graders could do it.
[23:34] <ater> yes
[23:34] <CmdrTaco> thats the lamest kind of troll.
[23:34] <CmdrTaco> its not a troll, its spam.
[23:35] <CmdrTaco> its being a pest just to be a pest.
[23:35] <AOC> but "BREAK HEAD WITH OPENSOURCE CD" is just...
classy
[23:35] <CmdrTaco> *so* lame.
[23:35] <Trollmastah> Just for reference are you interested
in what we actually do for a living?
[23:35] <CmdrTaco> understand that I get email once a week
that says
[23:35] <CmdrTaco> "Accounts like Ooog are proof that
Slashdot doesn't work"
[23:35] <CmdrTaco> think about that when you do lame trolls.
[23:35] <ater> the funny thing is oog got whored up to 70
karma
[23:35] <AOC> andover needs to hire you an email secretary
[23:35] <ater> k
[23:35] <CmdrTaco> "You should ban oogs IP"
[23:36] <Trollmastah> We know the differene between spam and
trolling.
[23:36] <ater> ok fair enough
[23:36] <CmdrTaco> I have a guy who may become my email
secretary.
[23:36] <CmdrTaco> he's gonna be tech support.
[23:36] <CmdrTaco> but he may start reading
malda@slashdot.org
[23:36] <CmdrTaco> that makes me cry.
[23:36] <ater> i wanna do one last thing and then oog's
retiring
[23:36] <Trollmastah> Vote OOG!!
[23:36] <ater> i havent used him in months anyway
[23:36] <CmdrTaco> You fuckers stole my email address.
[23:36] <CmdrTaco> bitches!
[23:36] ð CmdrTaco/#trolls grins.
[23:36] <Trollmastah> Huh?
[23:37] <CmdrTaco> because of crap like you, I can't even
read my own email without help!
[23:37] <TheReverand> heh
[23:37] ð CmdrTaco/#trolls sighs.
[23:37] <AOC> "Trolling makes baby Jesus^H^H^H^H^HRob cry"
[23:37] <CmdrTaco> Jesus does NOT have wheels ralph.
[23:37] <TheReverand> I want Cmdr on the mailing list
[23:37] <osm> yes
[23:37] <osm> join our mailing list, rob
[23:37] <CmdrTaco> enough for tonight.
[23:37] <CmdrTaco> tired.
[23:37] <Trollmastah> Would you participate?
[23:37] <CmdrTaco> 16 hours without a break.
[23:37] <ater> all right, perhaps we could continue this
some other time
[23:38] <CmdrTaco> I don't want to be on another list.
[23:38] <CmdrTaco> to much email already.
[23:38] <osm> we don't want you on it anyway
[23:38] <CmdrTaco> I already have a hundred lines of
filters.
[23:38] <Trollmastah> Agreed. Thanks Rob. And We heard what
you said.
[23:38] <ater> thanks for your time, ill take your advice
into consideration
[23:38] <CmdrTaco> right
[23:38] <CmdrTaco> sure ya will
[23:38] ùíù CmdrTaco [~malda@0.0.0.0] has left #trolls []
i like german girls. and nannies.
Actually, that was the entire point of Signal 11. He created the account, at least according to what he said, to see what would happen if he basically posted toting the party line. I think we all know the end result. In the end, Signal basically showed one problem with the moderation system - it's done by the "elite" Slashdotters.
Moderators are chosen based on karma. According to the IRC log, that's the only reason for karma. The higher your karma, the more likely you can moderate. Think about this for a moment - the people who are most likely to moderate are those who have been moderated up in the past. That means those that follow Signal 11's "groupthink" ideal are more likely to be moderated up. These people are then most likely to moderate up people who agree. The system perpetuates "groupthink." There needs to be a way to allow dissenters to moderate. (Problem with that is that most people who go against the grain wind up being modded down; then again, those that don't are usually the most level-headed, and probably more deserving. The real problem is that it's impossible to distinguish between "disagrees with groupthink" and "is being a troll.")
Personally, I think that everyone should have moderator access, all the time. Everyone can vote on a comment, and the average of all the votes becomes the score. There are enough people reading Slashdot so that the troll moderators would be filtered out. Plus, since one person voting on something would be enough to send it to +5 or whatever, then posts lost in later discussion have a chance to be seen. You can then also elliminate +1 scoring.
There's only one problem with my purposed solution - it'll beat up servers. (Repeatedly doing averages would take a lot of CPU power.) So I dunno.
My hope is that a significant percentage of the audience grows tired of this routine, and demands a more mature discussion....
Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. Slashdot frequently manages to post stories that someone, somewhere, can be emotional about. And when someone emmotional about some topic, he or she isn't as logical, and not as mature. Which is why there even are distro flame wars. If you think about it, that's a pretty dumb thing to get all worked up against.
There will always be losers. There will always be trolls. Some days, I'm a troll. It gets stress out, and allows me to participate in real discussions. We all have our bad days - some people take them out on Slashdot.
Signal 11 doesn't really personify the problems, but he does demonstrate them. With any discussion, there must have those who disagree. Otherwise, it's not really a discussion, it's simply a bunch of people patting their own backs. That's what Signal 11's real point was. I can't think of a real solution to it - but hopefully, someone else can.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
I was kinda surprised reading the logs. Cmdrtaco sounded a lot more like a scriptkiddie than I really liked. Comments like:
;)
.. (but I don't KNOW :-). As it is more, most of the interesting stuff at slashdot (the most interesting links and so forth) is almost always to be found in the comments. If more of them made the garbage-bins, I think that would be cool :)
.. wellwell Just an idea. It has probably already been considered.
:-)
bob_jones_iii is being an annoying prick. can we kill him? someone dos him
Really really disappointed me. Sure, he's got a smiley there, but still. I wouldn't be surprised if someone actually DoS'ed the sucker because "o allmighty Taco told them to".
Also, the "fuckings" , "sucks", the signal_11 bashing, and so forth was kinda surprising. It sure shows that some people act much more freely on IRC, than on web.
On the other hand, I do understand the frustration of someone constantly nagging at you, flaming you, and so forth. I really hope Malda keeps reading his mailbox himself, instead of getting someone else to read it.
Another thing I began thinking about. They don't link to the stories they throw away. There's no recylcle bin we may look in. Personally I would love it if there were some sort of reason when disapproving a story - and that they would be thrown into some bins. If they have, say four throwaway bins. One that is just 'garbage' that noone get to read, and three, like.. 'posted before', 'not interesting enough', and say 'Cool, but not cool enough'. (or whatever categories they want) - then that wouldn't be to prone to abuse.. I think
Also, the different bins would satisfy the demand for "why the story was rejected" a bit more. If it was trashed into 'garbage' they considered it garbage, and so forth. And, I can't see why this would take ANY more time. I don't know how the slashdot system works, but at the moment, there are two things that can happen. They approve it, or they don't. Two buttons / a menu or whatever. They could just make some more buttons. No need for a comment, and
hmf. this got a bit long, with nothing but mine opionions and stuff. Ohwell
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
First, I apologize for the bitchiness of the question (I posted it with about 20 minutes left and didn't think it would possibly be asked) and thank Rob for replying graciously.
That said, I thought the most interesting thing about the forum was how unenthusiastic CmdrTaco and Hemos were about the Open Source process as it relates to their own work. It was obvious when they released Slash that they were doing it grudgingly. And it seems clear to me from the forum that:
Fair enough -- but these guys are the editors of freakin' Slashdot! The site that:
So what's up? And I don't get their response that the people who complain aren't the ones who code. Well, yeah. And isn't that more reason not to keep sending an army of screaming wannabes after the target of the day? And for that matter, isn't Slashdot's image based on the premise that the nitwits shirieking, "KDE developers are CRIMINALS! They're enemies of free software!" are in fact Geeks and Members Of The Community?
Rob -- again, if angry mobs of loudmouths don't encourage you to keep participating as a free software developer, what makes you think KDE, Darwin, Be developers don't respond the same way?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...