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Wireless mouse+keyboard+gamepad
A reader wrote to us about a press release from Intel regarding wireless mouse/keyboards/gamepad stuff that they are doing -- I've been trying out wireless keyboard/mice/gamepads for a number of years now, and haven't been all that impressed by them. These new releases look better, but has anyone used anything out there they've been /really/ impressed by?
If you're going to be sitting at a desk to use the keyboard, then what's the big benefit of having the keyboard wireless?
I use a Logitech wireless at home, and love it. I don't do huge amounts of typing on that machine at a stretch, so the ergonomics aren't a big problem. For smallish amounts a keyboard on one's lap is fine. The big plus is the lack of cables; I can move the keyboard well off to the side and then pull out the (wired) steering wheel for a li'l "Porsche Unleashed."
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
As weird as it might sound, reading the article (!) put me In The Know(TM). It's USB. I have no experience with USB myself, but from what I've read, handling of human-interface stuff like keyboards and mice is pretty much standard. If Intel do this right, their wireless stuff should just show up as standard peripherals, then. Let's hope. ;^) On a related but different note, doesn't anyone worry about how these wireless things should be powered? Having to worry about batteries and/or charge levels in my mouse and keyboard doesn't sound like a lot of fun...
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
Is this a troll? or just ignorance? those are the questions.
I don't see it as either. Perl is a scripting language, but that doesn't make it any less powerful.
Just because it's not compiled, doesn't necessarily mean it sucks.
Speed, as you said, is the critical difference.
--K
ObMyCoolestVBHack: High school senior project - A data acquisition program. (Which drove the homebuilt A/D converter hardware!)
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Actually, logitech has a nice full sized, full featcured wireless (RF, not IR so no line of sight probs) keyboard that I use at home. Just like a "real" keybord, only no cord.
----
Remove the rocks from my head to send email
On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
...is this stuff done using BlueTooth. It feels like Yet Another Wireless Solution, but specialized for mice and keyboards and (I'm guessing) proprietary to Intel, isn't a very cool thing. On the other hand, my knowledge of BlueTooth isn't (yet) in-depth enough to know if it would be suitable to handle real-time stuff like mouse movements. You don't want to get the guys over at FiringSquad to b*tch over latency in your mouse tech. ;^)
main(O){10<putchar(4^--O?77-(15&5128 >>4*O):10)&&main(2+O);}
But nowdays, it seems hard just to find these features in a non-wireless keyboard, especially since Adesso discontinued their NU-Form PC keyboard with mouse button.
Has anyone found something similar to this, wired or not?
I don't really see the point ... whats wrong with wires? They are messy, long, and fun to trip over.
I just happen to have been working on a project using interactive digital television with set top boxes. The boxes have wireless keyboards (using IR). The signal between the keyboard and the STB is not encrypted. The signal can be picked up from 50 feet away. Since the application requires authentication, this has created quite a headache...
I think you want to do a showkey -k. I can see the expected key codes for my keyboard but haven't got them wired up yet.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
I've figured out this much:
:)
showkey -s shows you the scan codes. I can see the scan codes for the extended keys such as 0xe0 0x24 for one of them. I believe that I should be able to assign keycodes to these keys using setkeycodes. eg, 'setkeycodes e024 123' should set the key code for that key, unfortunately after I do this and do a showkey -k, I don't see any key code reported for the key that I set.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Well, you can try using 'showkey' on the console. It'll give you the keycode of whatever key you press. For instance, running 'showkey' and then pressing Enter gives:
keycode 28 press
keycode 28 release
Now, I don't know how useful that information will be, but if your extended keys don't show up under 'showkey' you're probably snookered. However, you can check out 'xmodmap' and the console equivalent(don't know what it is) for a start.
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
I've been using the iTouch desktop set for several months now and just love it. I even bought a second one to use at work.
The wireless mouse is a god send, not stupid cord to get in the way or hold you back. My only difficulty is that some of the people in my office find it amusing to hide the mouse because it isn't attached to anything and is easy to walk away with. Also someone decided that it would be a great idea to tape down the buttons one day after I left, the batteries were dead by the time I came into work the next day (since then I've delt with the individual responsible and their polished skull resides on a stick outside my area).
The keyboard isn't as usefull, but it is nice to be able to prop my feet up on a stool and set the keyboard in my lap without making sure I have enough cord. It's also handy to just hand the keyboard off to someone when they want to show you something, instead of playing musical chairs. It's also usefull for skipping through mp3's since it has the multimedia buttons built in. I can be in the kitched with the keyboard and still be able skip through tracks without running to the computer.
I'd like to note that I did try both sets together and was pleased to find that they didn't interfer with each other. I'm not sure why other people are having problems with this. I even tried to force the mouse to work with the other set, it wouldn't take it no matter what I did. Mine are relativly new, less than six months old, maybe they fixed the problem.
I haven't seen a gamepad version yet, but I'm not too sure I'd get one anyway. I'd rather use a good force feedback joystick and to keep one of those powered would take a few pounds of D batteries. At that point what use would it be, yes it's portable, but its too heavy to use.
Got a Logitech Cordless Desktop Pro, a single-reciever keyboard and mouse combo. Both are wireless via RF, I stuck the reciver behind my printer out of the way (close to the monitor, in fact, and I have a 22" monitor!) and the keyboard and mouse work perfectly. Responsive, great feel. Both are ergonomic (basically what the pro is for, the plain cordless desktop is not ergonomic) and the keyboard has Internet keys (which I barely use) and CD/volume controls (which I use constantly). The CD player controls are compatible with most popular players, just get the newest drivers every so often to improve compatibiliy with more and more apps. No linux yet though :(
I seriously wouldn't know this was wireless if I hadn't checked for the cable. :) No problems at all. You DO have to replace the batteries every so often, but changes are few and far between an the software alerts you when the batteries are on their last legs. I think I've replaced the mouse batteries 5 or 6 times in the last year, and I use the mouse A LOT. I think I've only replaced the keyboard 2 or 3 times. Use renewable alkaline batteries (the best batteries for a PDA anyway) and you spend about $10 a year on power.
Range is good, fresh batteries can get as much as 15 feet from the reciever (but that's pushing it.) Weak batteries can still pull 5 feet with no problems.
Cool mouse software, depending on your preferences. Thumb button, mouse wheel acts as a third button. Excellent feel with the buttons, unlike the M$ laser mouse you don't hit the thumb button by simply holding the mouse :)
The keyboard's feel is PERFECT. Doesn't have the flimsy feel of the MS Natural keyboards (or the rest of their hardware, for that matter) the keys have just the right amount of resistance, feedback, and they don't feel squishy at the end of a stroke the way some do. Quiet, yet you still here a nice click. It took me about an hour to make the transition from an old generic Compaq keyboard and I can't stand to use most other keyboards now.
I recommend this to anyone who can afford it (cost me $110, but I haven't looked back.) I tend to splurge on stuff that I know wil last a long time, and this product sure as hell will.
Then you pop out the cells and stick them in your charger. Hopefully you've got more on hand.
That is just plain annoying... plus I like to use the LED's on my board as indicators for certain things...
What's the solution? I think a cool idea would be to actually use the energy from the keystrokes themselves to charge a cell. Think about it... how much total force is made with each keypress? What if you could some how use the impact to generate a small charge? You know those sold-state speakers used in handheld devices (they consist of a copper and zinc plate - I think :). If you strike them with a hammer, watch your multimeter read out as much as 12VC with decent current. If they were perfected to produce even a fraction of that ... after two thousand keystrokes, you'd have saved up a considerable amount of energy.
Probably not at all viable, but just a cool idea. It'd be akin I think to pushing the lever on an old sewing machine... but it'd be neat. Human powered keyboards. :-)
It's all done in hardware, so there's no special windows drivers needed and works great with Linux. They sell the cordless mouse separately, but IMNSHO the best part is the keyboard.
Other niceties: the mouse is 3 button, the keyboard has a nice feel, and the batteries last about 4 - 5 months for me.
Next to the 25W amp and equalizer that fits in a 5.25" bay, it's the coolest hardware I have.
----- obSig
Gyration's Gyromouse was my favorite at my job 3+ years ago. When I build my next home system the Gyromouse will be there and the logitech or microsoft mouse will be in a box in the closet.
Gyromice use piezo-gyros, no moving parts. click with your thumb, which eliminates the strain on finger tendons. They're pretty damn nice, IMHO.
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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I've been using my Logitech Cordless Wheel Mouse 8 hours a day (at work) for about three months now on one pair of AAA's. YMMV, but 10 hours is ridiculous. How old is that thing anyway?
I know you said keyboard and mine is a mouse, but I can't imagine that making much difference if any.
Yo dawg, I heard you like the Ackermann function, so OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD
Is right here...
Anyway, it's the coolest damn thing I've ever used.
It's essentially a universal remote with PC control and a mouse built in, with left and right mouse buttons on the bottom.
It's an RF device, and I've used it from the lawn to control the PC upstairs. There's software for it to reprogram the buttons to launch anything you want to on your PC -- I have all of the # keys programmed to launch different playlists, and because it's RF I can launch them and control the volume from anywhere in the house.
This software I've been using is for Windows, but there are Linux projects out there as well.
I can't recommend this thing highly enough, I use it constantly.
Our company was throwing out some old hardware. I fished out something that looked like a remote control with an RF reciever. Found info on the web, but the driver software was really old (flaky in 98, didn't work at all in 2k), but it just went in the com port, so I wrote my own little "driver" in VB. Now my All-inwonder card is much coooler. My app controls three different progs: My tv viewer, my mp3 player, or my DVD player. The buttons do different things (volume control, pause, etc) based on which prog is running. All those things have key shortcuts, so a simple little SENDKEYS api call works just fine (after doing another api call to get the running apps, figuring out if one of my three is running, and getting the handle, of course).
:)
Oh I forgot, VB is a toy language, so I guess I can't do that. Never mind
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DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
their MousemanWheel is very nice. Wireless and the super big-n-chunky shape. Extra buttons and all that.
on the big-n-chunky issue - if you are not using an ergonomic mouse, why not? makes a v.big difference...heresy to say here but I was once shown around the mouse labs at Redmond: very impressive research. Not all at MS is bad.
I've always found wireless keyboards to be horrendous ergonomically. In order to be in the correct position for typing, you need to be sitting at a desk or table. If you're going to be sitting at a desk to use the keyboard, then what's the big benefit of having the keyboard wireless?
Nah, I'll be sticking to my regular 'fully tethered' input devices for the time being.
--
The gift of death metal does not smile on the good looking.
Personally, I always just run a long Cat5 cable to the sofa/recliner and use my laptop. The next step in this evolution for me is going to be to get a wireless NIC and hub. That would be pretty useful, and until they make a cheap but decent way to use my TV as a monitor, I won't be needing a keyboard/mouse/gamepad only solution for my computer. It is nice to be able to sit in a comfortable chair in the living room and surf the net with my DSL connection. What other uses are there for wireless keyboards and such?
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
I've used the Logitech cordless keyboard + mouse combo set and they've been very good. Very power-efficient too.
The mouse is one of those slightly tilted deals with a thumb-clicked left mouse button, so if you don't like ergo-stuff, don't get one :-).
cf. http://www.logitech.com/cf/products/productovervie w.cfm/64 - a newer model
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I was just thinking a little about security issues with wireless input devices.
Is my wireless keyboard going to be broadcasting everything that I type for a 100 yard radius?
This will effectively make SSH (among other security measuers) useless for preventing plaintext password sniffing since all anyone will need to sniff my passwords (or any other input) is a ~900MHz (or whatever those things run at) receiver...
It would take a little more effort than simply sniffing packets, but i think its a legitimate concern just the same.
It would be very interesting (and worthwhile) to see wireless input transmissions encrypted.
-Turkey
If each of the devices was wireless IPv6 enabled then you get the added benefits of security (so your neighbors couldn't track your password & credit card numbers when you typed them in, or read your outgoing email) and portability, since complying to a Universal standard should let you use the devices on any IPv6 enabled appliance, such as your digital 'VCR', Game Station, DVD player, MP3 player, Cell Phone, etc. all of which seem to be planning to incorporate the standard.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
Man, that's expensive.
;)
$150 for a keyboard, mouse and base station...after rebate?!?
Hell, I'm still looking for an excuse to buy a Logitech i-touch wireless keyboard and mouse...but they're only ~$45 apiece according to www.pricewatch.com.
Intel's solution is either really damn good, or just too damn expensive (likely the latter - $150 for a fscking keyboard and mouse is too damn expensive) -- and will someone PLEASE tell me why I would ever need a USB keyboard? Its not like I need the PS2 keyboard port for something else...and I'll have one no matter what. No thanks, I'll wait for better USB support under Linux (RH 7, although nice, has lots of issues -- ever try compiling a kernel on it without editing a makefile by hand? No workie).
Don't get me wrong, I think that the whole wireless thing is cool -- I wish I had something like it -- eliminating all of those cords is great, but this ain't it.
What I'd really like to see is some sort of standard (like IrDA was supposed to be, but better), so I can buy a generic base station and keyboard, along with a Kensington wireless trackball, and whatever wireless game controller works for my needs...all for less than Intel's outrageous MSRP.
Not like I'm opinionated or anything.
-Turkey
The one I fell in love with was the logitech itouch keyboard and mouse. They work of FM radio waves not the IR type which mean line of sigh is not an issue nore how far I choose to locate my computer from my desktop. The only limitation I have found with it is using more than one of them can become a hastle as they can interfear with each other at close range. This is the one issue I have yet to see anyone with a solution for. But as for my use of it I find it to work out great batteries last for months at a time and it is not that difficult to spot when they are going dead.
This is pretty old news really, only new part is that Intel is doing it now, yrs ago I had an old Compaq 4/66 painted black and mounted in the entertainment center, playing doom on the TV, (rocket launcher made a great sound over the surround sound system, shook the house), and used a wireless keyboard and gamepad....its been yrs so I dont remember the brands, but both items were infared. As for ergonomics, I just hit the recline button, laid the keyboard on my lap (built in trackball) roughly aimed at the receiver box on top the TV, and played for hours and hours....worked like a charm, no lag but occasionally the wife would walk past and block the signal but it recovered instantly and didnt hinder the game play anymore then the fact that I couldnt see the TV. For everyday office use I dont see a use for them, but for home entertainment, I loved it.
"...your future, make it a reality, all you have to do is fight for me"
I was wondering if there was any linux support for this type of thing and how exactly it communicates with the computer to actually achieve it's aims. Is it a circuit board or some other method that allows it's communication?
Respond to s
I have an iTouch Pro combo as well, and getting the extra keys to work is possible. Try running 'xev' under X instead of showkey; you should see it reporting the keys being pressed. In the version of XFree86 that came with RH7 there was a ready-made definition file for the standard itouch keyboard. The key codes are almost the same for the pro version; use xev to find the keycodes and then edit the itouch section in /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xkb/symbols/inet accordingly. Then set your XkbModel to 'itouch' in XF86Config and xev should now report 'XF86*' as the key symbol. After that you can just use the keys like any other.
/Zeb
As a piece of hardware, I think the original Natural keyboard stands alone (even better than MS's optical mice). Their original Sidewinder gamepad comes in a close second.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I just use my dad's work laptop and a simple X server to export the display over the network. This works great, and I can do almost everythign I could do it I was on the terminal. So if you want to play on your conputer from afar, IMHO this is the best option
There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.
i'm rather picky about the keyboards i'll use; i can't stand normal "membrane" keyboards, and that's just abut all you'll find in a wireless model. Lately i've become quite enamored of the IBM PS/1 keyboard: it has the excellent clicky feel, but it doesn't weigh 5 pounds. the old IBM Desktop Dominatior keyboards are good too, especially if you get the 10-foot cable like mine. :) Logitech wireless mice are pretty good in my experience though; just wish XF86 3.3.6 supported that 4th button... (no, i don't want to use 4.0.1.)
I just switched to the Logitech cordless desktop pro and love it, especially the mouse. Not having to drag the cord around is great! Now if I could just get the extened keyboard keys working under Linux and X. I've found some info on how to do this but it is not concise and complete. Pointers anyone?
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
I've used a wireless keyboard and mouse from logitech. IIRC, it wasn't infrared, but radio, so you didn't have to have line-of-sight to use it. It had a pretty good range, prolly 15-20 feet, but it would skip letters every now and then. It's extremely annoying to be typing and have random letters just not show up, it's like having a sticky key or something.
The mouse was very cool because you could put it just about anywhere and not worry about the cord. I don't mind keyboard cords as much as I mind mouse cords, they get in the way more because the device has to be moved around, unlike the stationary keyboard.
Both of the devices would sometimes "loose" their signal or frequency, and you'd have to reset it (re-handshake, i suppose) by pressing a button on the base. All in all, it was pretty neat, but I'd really like to have a wireless radio optical mouse that worked flawlessly.
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."