Slashdot Mirror
The Politics Guillotine Descends
A final pre-election assemblage of political news for voters, conscientious objectors, felons, minors, and non-U.S. citizens. Philom points to an interesting analysis of NaderTrading by UCB grad student Scott Aaronson. Cheshyre sent in an interesting tidbit that may affect the odds of George Bush sneaking north for some subsidized health care. Of course, if that's embarrassing, so is trading cigarettes for Gore Votes, as pointed out by photozz.
flimpy points to another tech-centric voter's guide. Finally,
Mike McCune allleges that "About 90% of the national elections use use a device called the 'Shouptronic' to count the votes. The Shouptronic is a closed system that isn't open for inspection. Several groups argue that it has been used to fix the vote in elections. This is a good argument to use an open system for election counting." He points to this wacky but intriguing book by the equally wacky but intriguing Collier family. I'm convinced.
2% of the total population has lost the right to vote as a result of a felony conviction, and 13% of the black adult male population has lost their right to vote.
In eight states, 1 in 4 black adult males has lost the right to vote.
It HAS happened before in the US, though only in local elections. Most of them seem to be mistakes, but one can never tell. see here
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If I were a Nader supporter, I'd be a bit concerned about him getting over 5%. If he manages that feat, the Green party is going to qualify for Federal funds next time around. I think that that would make an attractive honeypot for some roving band to come in and attempt a takeover of the party. How'd you like a bunch like the Buchananites suddenly registering as Green, the way they did with the Reform party? Fed funds could be more of a curse than a help to a third party, unless they're certain that their real base can outnumber potential conquerors.
I stopped to read the whole contents of the votescam website, which is more than most posters here, who either read only the slashdot summary or the first page that was linked.
They raise some important questions, and encourage us, as voters, to go and find the answers. Who learned in civics (or ELP: Economy, Legal, Politics as it was called in Raleigh NC in 1991) precisely how the votes are counted?
We only know that the votes are tallied, and the results magically announced on the news before bedtime.
IF it isn't a conspiracy, then let's see the votes from beginning to end, from the time they are cast, to the time they are tallied, and verify the tally.
Let's see the source code behind the systems that do the tallying, or have interviews with the people that won't let us see the code. (time for a slashdot interview!)
It may not be a conspiracy but when people start hiding parts of my democracy, I want answers why.
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
ok, i have to put this up
It's a collection of G.W. Bush's Bong Pics
I'm sorry i had to do that
Yeah, a Bush presidency is a dreadful thought, but something has to be done to wake them up. You'd have thought losing Congress in 1994 would have done the trick...
John
John
Slightly off-topic but hey, the blurb brought it up.
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OK, I understand the logic behind not letting felons have guns, but taking away their vote? I don't see the democratic value in that
Just make something politically unpopular a felony (like, um, recreational drugs, for starters?) and you begin to silence your opponents with every conviction.
Is it any wonder that recidivism is so high when ex-cons don't even have a voice in the system?
Pacer
So were the cigarettes made from the tobacco that Gore harvested himself?
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
This may be off-topic (actually it isn't, since there isn't a story), but why don't the Libertarians get as much press coverage as Ralph Nader or the Reform Party? I mean come on, the Libertarian party is the third largest party in the US, and it isn't even listed in Yahoo!'s 2000 Election section.
Have any of you Nader-voters actually read what Ralph Nader stands for? If you did, you wouldn't be so quick to vote for him.
Libertarian FAQ
Harry Browne, Libertarian for President
Thank you, have a nice day!
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The World is Yours.
Then there's Harry's irritating refusal to play the "political game" -- refusing to accept matching funds etc. It makes him look like a flake.
Then there's the sneaking suspicion that the Libertarians would eliminate consumer protection laws (laws that make fraud etc. a crime), while keeping laws that favor business. The law currently gives corporations very favorable treatment -- they are allowed to deduct things from their taxes that ordinary citizens aren't allowed to deduct (that is why, despite billions in income, Cisco and Microsoft paid not one dime in income tax last year), the owners of these mega-corporations are given special protection against being sued for the actions of the business that they own, etc. Some of these are a matter of good public policy -- without the limited liability, corporations would have a hard time finding shareholders. Still, these do represent special treatment for corporations, and most consumers are suspicious about attempts to take away current special treatment for consumers (such as fraud laws, antitrust laws, etc.).
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Hey you are more then welcome to start your own "Lets let murderers vote" campaign. I'm sure it will be real sucessful.
Felony does not necessarily equal murder.
It's a felony in many states to vote in your old precinct if you move and forget to update your registration. (In Florida, it's 5 years in prison.)
It's a felony in many states to have sex with someone to whom you aren't married.
It's a felony in some states to have oral sex with someone to whom you *ARE* married. (And this has been upheld in the courts.)
It's a felony to make an unauthorized copy of Microsoft Windows on your PC.
Do you really think people should lose their Constitutional rights over these transgressions, or any of the literally tens of thousands of other bullshit felony laws in this country?
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I wish I could vote for him. Hell, I wish I could vote him as Prime Minister (some of you may have heard that we are having our own little excercise in democratic futility up here, as well), too. I can't think of another case where I have actually been interested by your choices (Perot notwithstanding... he's such a funny little loonie, and very watchable). I just hope you guys make Ralph look good this election.
I don't know how any L/libertarian could do less than support a dissenting voice in the ongoing love duet of corporate America. I'll make you all a deal. Vote for Nader, and next time you're north of the border, you can all get free poutine and doughnuts on me. Promise.
My mother-in-law was denied entry into Canada becasue she (stupidly enough) admitted to the customs inspector that she had had a drunk driving conviction 14 years earlier.
We had to wait two hours and pay a $300 fine to clear this up. It was stupid and embarassing, especially when a simple little self-serving lie would have eliminated the problem.
Of course a President usually travels by invitation - which is equivalent to a diplomatic passport for most purposes - so it makes no difference while in office. But, I wonder if Bush has travalled to Canada in the last 20 years and if he admitted his past crimes at the time. If not, he is in violation of the Immigration Act and can be permanently barred from entering Canada.
While I can't vouch for the rest of the country, California voters are pretty much immune to widespread electronic voter fraud. When Cali. residents cast their votes on Tuesday, those votes will be piped through a brand new Java based statewide election reporting system. This system, developed in part by the company I work for, is brand new from the ground up and has undergone full code audits from several parties to verify that no "illicit" code is hiding inside. You still don't trust the code? Well, it's your right to be paranoid, but I regularly have lunch with the guys who wrote the new software and I can tell you my mind will be at ease.
You can get more info here: http://java.sun.com/features/ 200 0/11/calvoter.html
There is nothing so pathetic as seeing a beautiful young theory roughed up by a tough gang of facts.
Link : A Vote For Nader Is .36 Of A Vote For Bush
It really is pretty damn funny.
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Why risk the accusations of partiality.
The value of transparent systems and perfect information available to decision makers (voters, citizens) far exceeds skimpy assurances that everything's kosher.
This is a central tenet to capitalism, and the reason behind the SEC, why wouldn't it translate to every facet of public life? Decision making and basing democracy on imperfect information is wholly unsatisfactory. Would people have bought those SUVs had every sales contract revealed the potential defects in the tire system? Do you appreciate having to buy software with no foreknowledge of how it will operate, or whether it will work, but knowing that nobody will take it back when you discover that it doesn't meet your requirements?
"It's all about the information;" and we need more, not assurances that we can get by with less.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
I'm voting Nader, don't give a rat's ass what state I'm in (actually I think Vermont isn't likely to go Bush, but I don't care if it does) because voting is NOT A GAME. It is the expression of my opinion, and an attempt to get representation of my concerns.
Leaving aside the fact that attempts to convince me that Gore is some kind of acceptable choice are insulting, I figure that if this is supposed to be a GAME, why don't we just sit them in front of PCs and have them Quake it out? Better yet, they can wrestle for it and WWF can broadcast it on pay-per-view. This is not a game people! Talking about game theory and win strategies completely betrays your obligation to represent YOUR VIEWS honestly and directly! That means if you really _back_ either of the two main clowns, you should vote for them- but if you back Nader, or Browne, or McReynolds etc etc, you are _obligated_ to vote for them and give the country GOOD DATA. Garbage in garbage out- who knew that computer geeks would have to have this explained to them? But the game concept is so established that it's not suprising...
GIGO, people. Your vote is not a game! It is DATA. Give the country ACCURATE DATA and we'll go from there and see what else needs to happen. I know that, voting as a Progressive, I seriously doubt I'll be able to roll over and go back to sleep for four years- in particular, corporate abuses have become so outlandish that I don't think there's time for apathy. I think the Libertarians should take a look at the amount of spending BOTH parties are delighted to allow (Libertarians should appreciate this one Nader story- there are government researchers trying to find cures for malaria and other diseases. They're way underfunded which would not impress a libertarian- but Nader asked these guys how they felt about the continued contracts for obsolete B1 bombers, which is spending on an unimaginably greater scale, all from taxes. He asked how much of a B1 would it take to double the researchers' budget. One of them came right back with, "A wheel.")
This 'votepact' idea seems like just an informal admission of something people are already doing without the securityblanket- it's an excuse to abandon the parties and put in accurate data for a change. Many people are doing this and to hell with the resulting balance of the major parties- this seems to be just a way for people who are more frightened, to do this and feel that they aren't risking anything. But the end result is the same- more accurate DATA being put into the system. Hooray for them :)
Actually, it isn't just Americans. If you look at any country or culture, you will see that the majority of people are completely stupid. I am not meaning this in a flamebait sort of way, but that most people don't want to think and are no better than sheep. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as only letting people of a certain age vote, or of a certain education or any other criteria you can think of. You think that Europeans are so much better, but they aren't. Sure they might know more than Americans in some categories, but they can be stupid in other ways. Take the French for example. Please, I don't want them. Ok, bad joke.
We don't let children drink alcohol, but we let them vote ?
Not only do we let them vote, but we make them completely responsible for themselves at 18, and make them sign up to go get killed if the government decides on a whim to go to war for no reason (Vietnam for example, and the politicians involved should have been executed for treason against the U.S.) We should abolish the draft, and not go to war for anything but defensive reasons.
Now, I do agree with you that the U.S. sucks ass. Unfortunately, from what I am finding out, every country is a horrible place to live, because they are infested with people. The silly semi-hairless monkeys try to be civilized but really are the worst animals to live on this planet. The few of us that do think for ourselves will either become leaders, or outcasts of society. American has never taken itself seriously, but at one time we did have leaders that were good men, and relatively cared for people. Yes, they did some really really bad things (genocide of the native americans, slavery, etc.) but they had some sound principles that today we can apply to all people equally. Unfortunately, the thing that our form of government requires to function is good people. So, with the lack of quality people in the U.S., and the entire world, we are doomed to suffer as we have for thousands of years already.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.