Chip News To Crunch On

kupolu writes: "According to this article at Techweb, AMD announced last Friday that it is dropping its plans for the Mustang processor in favor of the new AMD-760 DDR-Enabled chipset. The Mustang was going to be AMD's entry into the server market, with it's amazing up-to 2MB L2 Cache." (Actually, from this article it's hard to tell if even AMD knows what's going on; tweezing apart the code names from the capabilities of particular products to be offered is complicated.) But on the coming-out instead of dropping-off front, proxima writes: "This story on Yahoo describes that Intel is releasing two new Celeron chips on Monday. One, a 733 Mhz model, will cost $112 per chip in bulk. A 766 Mhz model will cost $170 per chip."

Comments

Re:What is Intel Thinking?

[Fat Rat Bastard]

Hell, I just bought a Thunderbird 750 for a C-Note.

Re:Where do these Names Come From?

[dstone]

It looks like chips in the Sledgehammer family will be named after hammers.

So keep an eye out for:

the Jackhammer

the Hammer Drill

the Hammer Toe

the Rodgers & Hammerstein

the Hammerhead

the M.C. Hammer

the Jan Hammer

the Hammered Dulcimer

the Rubber Reflex Hammer

Re:766 not a big difference over 733

[Tet]

766 MHz is not such a big difference over 733 MHz.

Indeed. I was wondering why anyone would buy the faster chip. 4.5% more clock speed for over 50% more price. They're both using a 0.18 micron process, and there was no mention of different cache sizes, so I can't see why anyone would spend the extra.

Shades of Apple's BHA codename

[dpilot]

I heard that they started out as classic cars, and then some carmaker got upset. So given the names they had, it was fairly easy to change over to horses.

Anyone remember Apple's "Sagan" project codename that was changed to "BHA" after the namesake objected? Sounds like someone didn't learn from that lesson.

Mustang vs Mustang server

[SpinyNorman]

From following the AMD news sites, I believe the real version of this confused story (replacing a processor with a chipset???) is that AMD are dropping the server (large cache) variant of the Mustang in favor of concentrating on the Clawhammer (first member of their 64-bit x86-64 Hammer family, indended for 2 or 4-way SMP) as their first server targetted processor. However, they will still launch the Mustang based Athlon desktop replacement (Palomino) and the Duron version sometime fairly soon (Q1 2001?).

Re:On Topic!!! AMD "not knowing what they're doing

[dbarclay10]

There's a lot more to it. AMD's planned "server" chip would have contained 1-2(!)MB of level-2 cache. That's an big feat - very difficult to achieve.

On the other side, AMD has very fast processors, and a multi-processor capable chipset(using DDR memory) is on its way.

So, as far as I can see, AMD decided to a) not risk everything on a chip that would be difficult to design/manufacture, and b) rely on their current, fast, processors and the soon to be released multi-processor, DDR capable chipset.

Add to the mix that we might be seeing chipsets with ~8 megs of integrated cache within the next year or so, and you see why they might not want to "waste" time on a "server"-oriented processor.

Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,

AMD and Intel, please calm down!

[fluor2]

I believe that because of AMD and Intel's increased frequency of releases, the companies loose a lot of money because of they sometimes have to cancel public releases like this. In the end, the end-user must pay for this, thus increasing CPU prices.

This is not healthy. Another view is that this race might lower the quality of chips, just like Intel's drawback recently.

So listen to my words, Intel and AMD! Sit back in your chairs and relax. Have a cup of coffee.. :-)

Re:AMD and Intel, please calm down!

[EMN13]

If I understand you correctly, you want AMD and Intel to relax the tempo a bit.

No way!

Speed increases may be more incremental at the moment, but on a per year basis, this competition has really sped up developement. Also, an unstable chip is not hell (though intel should really have known better, considering the 1133 failed consistently on a linux kernel compilation :-)) - You just don't have to buy the newest of the new.

An interesting point you make is that companies lose money because of retracted releases. On the one hand, the P-1133 retraction did cost intel (not much) money, however AMD's retraction cost them nothing - the chips weren't even in production yet.

On the way to faster chips there are some dead ends - so what?

This is junk and its all Intel's fault

[91degrees]

Once again we have another new chip. Once again, its just a really really fast 386. One of the least future proof chips ever. Only capable of handling 1 multiplier, so more clock speed is required. Faster clock means more pipeline stages. More pipeline stages mean less efficient branches. When will AMD, Intel and the rest produce a decent new architecture?

Re:This is junk and its all Intel's fault

[EMN13]

The issue of a better architechture is not as simple as you make it out to be. It is not only that there are large investments in x86 and great market opportunities due to the large customer base, but also the fact that so much research has gone into them that indeeed the x86 is the fastest architecture on the block for many applications.

Specifically, in integer math the x86 chip is no doubt by far the best - even more so as its rather cheap compared to competitors.

Many of the big x86 problems - small number of registers, bad bus architecture, not a load/store memory system - are greatly alleviated by good caching, in which case the x86 needs to compete on the microarchitecture level not the ISA.

I agree that x86 is a bad thing, but it is certainly not a killer.

Furthermore, I think its important to face the fact that software developement cost is probably the biggest expense around, and it is simply better to have a compatible chip for old software than it is to get a new thing - even if the new thing is a bit faster - because speed is just one factor in the whole equation.

Change should come - but the x86 shouldn't be abandoned, rather a transmeta-like approach of emulation is called for.

Where do these Names Come From?

[vergil]

I'm hardly a hardware expert ... actually, I was an English major. So pardon my ignorance.

As I read over the aforementioned article, one question lodged in my brain:
Where do the names for these chips come from?

The following monikers were mentioned in the article:

Morgan
Mustang
Athlon
Palomino
Clawhammer

I suppose the typical focus groups were convened, and chose names that connote speed, agility, and -- in the case of "Clawhammer" -- driving, forceful impact.

'Else someone at AMD has a severe horse fetish.

Sincerely,
Vergil

Re:Where do these Names Come From?

[Webmonger]

Athlon is meaningless, according to the story Slashdot carried when they announced the name.

Instead of naming things in the Athlon line after rivers (like Intel does with its chips) they name them after breeds of horse.

It looks like chips in the Sledgehammer family will be named after hammers.

Re:New Chips

[xxxtac2]

Because, with current processes and materials it would be a very large ineffecient overheated piece of crap. They have to increase the effiency of the chip before they can start to push that speed... eg smaller transistors, better heat sinks, possibly even better materials... galium arsenide anyone?

On Topic!!! AMD "not knowing what they're doing"

[fatphil]

The way I have interpreted several of the articles regarding AMD "dropping" musthang (just made that up!) is as follows.

"We have decided that we don't want it in the _marketplace_, but if we need it, we could probably roll it out without too much delay".

It's probably because they don't want to have a smooth transition to their next generation chips (the 64 bit ones, my what a novel concept*). If they try to flood the high end market with Xeon-bashers, then they'll not have any market for the 64 bit chips. Better to wait and then ship Xeon-anihilators, so there's no confusion about what to by and when to upgrade.

Rant rant rant, all I want from them is SMP, rant rant rant!

FP
(* Alpha owner for _years_)

Re:766 not a big difference over 733

[Nagash]

This is a classic statement/argument that reminds me of the Lottery Paradox.

Take n people who have bought tickets for a lottery. Look at the first person. The chances are so remote that they will win that you can almost say with certainty they won't win. Same for the second person, third and so forth up to n. Well, you've covered all the people saying that they will not win, but you know for a fact that someone will win.

Another thing this reminds me of is the pile of sand problem. You have a pile of sand up to your head and take away a single grain. It's still a pile. Keep doing that. When is it not a pile?

Same goes for processor speeds. 766 is not a big difference over 733. 733 is not a big difference over 700, etc. However, 766 is a big difference over 333 and that is why they keep pushing the envelope. Not to make recent developments seem worthy of an upgrade but rather, older developments.

So while it seems every small processor upgrade is not a big difference, there is, at some point a big difference and that pile of sand is eventually not a pile.

Woz

Re:Mhz

[Datafage]

My explanation is always stride length vs. stride frequency, but that's just 'cause I did xc : )

-----------------------

Good riddance Mustang

[Kiss the Blade]

This is a good decision by AMD to drop the Mustang. The high end market does not yet trust AMD, and with good reason, considering certain fiascos in the past.

And the high end market is wedded to Intel, these people don't care about k00ln355, all they want is rock solid stability and trustworthyness. AMD would find it next to impossible to break into such a market, even if they had superior technology. The only way AMD can do it is by creeping gradually there, step by step. But will they attract anyone beyond the 5cr1pt k1dd135? Businessmen & women? I don't think they can at the moment.

KTB:Lover, Poet, Artiste, Aesthete, Programmer.

That's not what they said.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, AMD said they were dropping the Mustang from their roadmap...

...But not in favor of the AMD 760 chipset. The 760 DDR chipset has already been announced and will
probably ship sometime late this month/early next month.

What they said is the 760 MP (their SMP version of the DDR chipset) will fill that niche.

The reason that probably prompted this is that AMD is short on fab space, and since they're selling out all the processors they can make, why divert capacity to an expensive low-volume chip.

What it says is that the SMP 760MP is on track.

This was a good move by AMD.

What is Intel Thinking?

[dgb2n]

$170 for a 766 Celeron in bulk? Even if they plan to release the chip on a 100 MHz bus, the price is way out of bounds. Take a look at the current lowest pricewatch numbers on processors:

AMD Duron - 750 $74, 800 $97
AMD Thunderbird 850 $142, 900 $165, 950 $222
Intel Celeron 700 $76
Intel - Pentium III 667 $149, 733 $173,750 $181, 800 $181

I'm not trying to start an AMD vs. Intel war but Intel's current release and price point doesn't even fit into their own chip lines let alone compete with AMD. Get real. You can get a 900 MHz Thunderbird for less money.

Will Intel never learn?

[AFCArchvile]

I've had enough of those pathetic 66MHz Celeron releases. When will Intel actually release their 400MHz FSB (in the same definition as the Athlon's 200MHz FSB [which is actually 2x100]) P4's? And this time, let's forgo the Rambus chipset. No one in their right mindset would even think of getting a proprietary RAM standard that has already been proven inferior to the de facto standard, SDRAM (among the morons who buy RAMBUSt: CEOs who blindly purchase workstations, and every single PS2 owner).