Controlling Space Satellites

Cainxinth writes "The New Scientist reports secure internet servers will blast-off into space for the first time on Thursday with a mission to get as beat up as possible. If the specially-toughened chips survive, they should allow future internet users to control satellites from their desktop." Sparc chips - interesting concept.

Comments

Jurisdiction in Orbit?

[vergil]

Servers in Space ... interesting.

Would data stored on board an orbiting server be subject to the jurisdiction of an earthbound nation?

Sincerely,
Vergil

Re:Jurisdiction in Orbit?

[rjh]

Short answer: nobody knows for sure. It'd probably fall under the same laws as marine vessels (maritime law). The sat would be considered the property of its owner, but the nation wouldn't be able to enforce its laws on the satellite, since the satellite is in international "waters" (well, international LEO).

It's a well-established principle that nation-states can't enforce their laws on ships of foreign registry when those ships are in international waters. Doing so is considered an act of war (and was the cause of the War of 1812, if I recall).

So, if you don't mind a really expensive porn server... talk to Seahaven and incorporate a business there. Then buy a sat server and have the Russians put it in orbit. Once it's in orbit, upload all the pr0n and MP3s you want and let the world download freely.

Since Seahaven isn't signatory to any international conventions, Seahaven doesn't even recognize the existence of copyright (no copyright law + no signatory to the Berne Convention = no copyright). Any nation that wanted to put you on trial for making DeCSS available in defiance of court order would first have to declare war on Seahaven in order to do it. :)

Enemy Of The State

[weston]

they should allow future internet users to control satellites from their desktop

"It's already done."

I just saw Enemy Of The State... the NSA was tracking Will Smith and Gene Hackman with desktop controlled satellites. So this technology is already available.

Now, if only I could get a hold of the Supercomputer technology from Superman III -- you know, where Richard Pryor gets his MCSE and then hacks the payroll system and then builds the world's most powerful computer...

Misrepresentations abound

[bughunter]

This New Scientist article goes to great lengths to misrepresent the primary mission of the STRV satellites. New Scientist is by far one of the worst abusers of this sort of spin doctoring. Any link to a New Scientist story should be carefully reviewed before taken seriously.

Specifically, these aren't servers - they're testbeds using two Sun Sparc chips among dozens of other devices. All the devices are being evaluated for their tolerance to space radiation. Sure, these chips are used as server CPUs, but they're also useful in avionics and instrumentation. I wager they'll see much more use in the latter two roles.

It would have made an equally interesting and much more truthful article if the author had dug just a little deeper and described how challenging it is to make rad-hard electronics - how tiny details of IC layout can make a device susceptible to low levels of radiation... how the different types of radiation occur in different orbits... the different damage mechanisms for these different radation types... about the South Atlantic Anomaly... how the continuous spectrum of natural radiation is nearly impossible to reproduce in the laboratory, making this the only way to test materials, devices, and surfaces.

Re:Interesting... But Safe?

[g_mcbay]

or can be told to collide with the sun

A hack that would allow an earth orbiting satellite to somehow collide with the sun would be the mother of all hacks. Not only would the satellite's security system be violated, but so would known physical laws of the universe. Sounds cool!

Also, if someone managed to collide the satellite into the Sun using this super hack, the only outcome would be that the satellite would be destroyed (actually it would burn up long before it ever got close enough to actually collide with the Sun). Its not going to make the Sun supernova and kill us all or anything sci-fi-stupid like that.

Actually, yes, it would be.

[human bean]

Firstly, IANAL. I have been involved with the sat industry for some time, and as I recall, the sovereign boundaries of nations are defined by both treaty and precedent as conic solid stretching from the center of the earth, through the boundary of the country, off into infinity, more or less. Thus the concept of a country's airspace. That country's laws apply within.

However, trying to get an peace officer of one of these countries to arrest someone in the Clarke orbit may be another story.

If I recall correctly, a UN treaty gives equatorial countries certain payments in return for the use of geosynchronous orbits that inhabit their airspace.

Orbital Lasers

[Barche]

Finally, the first step to bring Orbital Lasers to the masses. I've always dreamt of a site that would (perhaps even for a modest fee) allow you to scorch random parts of the world. Maybe laser control could be regulated in a way similar to the moderation system on this site.

Re:Orbital Lasers

[bonzoesc]

"Hooray! You got modded up to a 5. Here's the form field. Enter the coordinates of something you want to give a good healthy zap from orbit."

Actually, it could be linked to the poll system:
Who gets zapped?

• Bill Gates
• The head of the RIAA (name escapes me...)
• Jack Valenti, in charge of MPAA (?)
• CmdrTaco

Clothe yourself in aluminum foil like Bart Simpson on Focusyn and you're safe.

Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate

A Telerobotic Future Is A Fun Future

[LHOOQtius_ov_Borg]

Telerobotics over the Internet, especially Space telerobotics, is one of the cooler things being done online (it sure beats yet another porn server). Now, though this system doesn't yet allow telerobotic control of satellites, they do leave open the possibility for future flights. Survival Research Labs (www.srl.org) has already on several occasions opened up control of their various dangerous robots to Internet users, at some performances and installations, and it was a lot of fun for all involved. Controlling satellites would be at least as fun - not necessarily giving us control of their thrusters, but cameras and sample-collection arms would be cool.

E-commerce payments for custom satellite photos, though, opens up a whole new realm of spy technology for the business and consumer markets. Just think, punch in your credit card # and take a picture of that neighbor's yard that's all closed-in by a tall fence... Or your competitor's shipping depot... or whatever... Of course, geeks like us will instead (or also) want to buy custom picture of our favorite astronomical body - but I wonder which type of photos they were referring to in the announcement... hmmm...

Finally, I wonder... why aren't they testing a SETI@Home-like system where the satellite collects whatever data it collects, and users download processing software from a NASA ground station, receive data over the on-satellite server, process it and then... either send it to the ground station, or, in some applications, results could be sent back to the satellite and fed into software running on board that determines the satellite's next actions if the user's machine has uploaded some results which impact the task being carried out... THAT would be cool... SETI@Home-type work with real-time feedback loops with the satellites collecting the data... "Hey satellite, we think we found something, look more closely here..."

Re:A Telerobotic Future Is A Fun Future

[bonzoesc]

Such a feedback loop would probably be a bad idea because it would be too easy to tamper with the client software on the ground to send the satellite bad data, such as "Something is at coordinates (x,y,z)", and the satellite turns its fragile camera straight at the sun. Quite frankly, I wouldn't trust script kiddies with a $2.5 billion dollar telescope in space.

Tell me what makes you so afraid
Of all those people you say you hate

Re:GEO slots are assigned to countries

[rjh]

Space falls under maritime law; any assignment of geosynch orbits to countries is purely voluntary on the part of the countries who agree to it. For an analogue, consider sea lanes; certain sea lanes have been traditionally used by one power or another, and other powers avoid those sea lanes (fishing areas, etc.) to prevent conflict. But if you want to sail those lanes, there's nothing in maritime law which says you can't.

Warning: I'm not an international law expert. (In fact, I've got doubts that international law even exists in a practical sense; if I'm right, then the entire argument is very moot.)

Re:Space heatsink

[HeghmoH]

Sorry, wrong.

Space practically has NO temperature. In order to have a temperature, there must be substance. It's a pretty hard vacuum up there, and there's little enough stuff floating around that it doesn't matter what temperature it is. Vacuum is a very, very good insulator, since the only way to get rid of heat is by radiation. So you actually have the opposite problem.

Maritime Law only applies to the ship...

[Speare]

If the "captain" of the "vessel" is ashore, you can bet your butt that they can prosecute.

Surface computers sending or receiving data to such a satellite would be the vulnerable point of inquiry. Unless your transmissions are laser-narrow, they'll be detected. If they suspect you already, they will confiscate what they need to pin the rest of the case.

As an analogy, consider a remote controlled boat packed with contraband. There's several potentially culpable parties: those caught where the contraband left port, those caught where the contraband arrived, and those who were ashore but responsible for the arrangement of said boat.

Wow, where do I sign up?

[sid_vicious]

And my mom thought I was wasting away all those hours I spent playing "Missile Command" on my Atari 2600...

You just wait until *I'm* put in charge of a nuclear death ray satellite. Momma would be so proud.

:)

This is better than Ultima Online!

[Sentsix]

Instead of PK'ing people's avatars in a massively multiplayer game you'd get to destroy real satellites from the comfort of your home! Sure it'd probably cost more than $10 a month, but watching the fruits of your work streak through the upper atmosphere makes every penny worth it.

The line for this starts behind me....

Midwatch Industries

More than just remote control via IP

[code_rage]

I followed the link in the New Scientist story to the UK ministry web site. There is some great stuff there on all of the technology they are testing in the harsh GTO (geosynch transfer orbit) environment:
- comm layers (CCSDS and a new jointly developed protocol for TT+C)
- lots of sensor, battery, and PV technologies
- and of course the rad-hard SPARC

This is a great way to work on risk reduction for the next generation of cheapsats. Bravo!

pr0n in orbit

[Gefiltefish]

Great! This is just fabulous.

With internet servers going up in satellites, the next thing you know, the earth's orbit will be clouded with porn servers.

Been there...

[spellcheckur]

I actually did this myself six months ago with an Estes rocket with 700 "D" size boosters.

I launched a pc-104 with a wireless modem and solar cells, streaming Elton John's "Rocket Man."

I got a cease-and-desist order from the RIAA branch on Mars, but Iridium went belly up before I could fight the jurisdictional issues in court.