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Scour is Dead
jathos writes "The Scour Exchange is dead -- see the announcement here. Does this just prove once again that one company cannot own a peer-to-peer file-sharing network?" Scour actually was a reasonably useful tool for finding wierd images. I used it regularly to find clipart for my own devious projects. Guess we'll have to wait for that multi media peer to peer system until Gnutella is solid.
Burris
May I ask how it is "off topic"? CuteMX is a distrubited filesharing app. Until the ideal one comes, it's good to have one that, to my knowledge, is still up.
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ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Another insane lawsuit by giant corporations that not only deprives us of our rights might destroys another internet company that is doing nothing more than move humanity out of the dark ages of information monopolies.
The eff has a article pleading for reform to the archaic copyright laws that are being twisted to destroy your internet freedoms.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
The reason peer to peer sharing technologies are currently doomed is that, if they're successful, there will be considerably more than a sensible number of people on the air.
I've been on Gnutella when half the net went there, and let me tell you, it wasn't pretty. Like most people, I had to hang up or get overwhelmed.
A similar problem has come up in shared VR. If a tenth of the people who signed on to Cybertown showed up at the same time, it would be madness. If the net is a "never-ending worldwide conversation", as Judge Steward Dalzell said, then a conversation of 10 million or 10,000 people, when you can't tune any of them out, is a conversation in Bedlam.
The easy problem is how to filter out the noise. The hard problem is trying to figure out what, to a particular user at a particular time, is signal and what is noise. Area of interest culling is only a partial solution. While I might be interested in erotic photographs of large aquatic mammals today, I'm not exclusively interested in Flipper and his friends. I might be interested tomorrow in the polyphonic motets of Lassus.
An even harder problem is identifying which of a particular set of resources offered that are allegedly within my current areas of interest are of actual interest. I'm not interested at all, for example, in Flipper stills of the Ranger and the stupid kids, and I already have the picture where Flipper stands on his tail. While the file name conventions that have arisen among mp3 file sharers are a step in the right direction (and they picked an easy domain), the conventions are far from universal, and as people have found out, sometimes spoofed and sometimes just ignorantly wrong.
(I'm tempted to say that a central server that acts like a Library of Congress classification system may be needed, and certainly would be a more useful role for a central server than mere file name storing.)
And, of course, this must be accomplished without the overhead that makes Gnutella such a pig. And remember, Gnutella hardly tries to accomplish any of this area of interest culling.
While the developers of Gnutella et al have spent considerable time on networking technology and user interfaces (despite appearances!), they haven't yet taken more than baby steps toward solving the real problem that will make peer-to-peer sink or swim: determining and using areas of interest.
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
May scour rest in peace. The capitialists just chalked up a kill. Odds are more will follow before they get shut down, if they ever do. Free file sharing is at stake here, and the freedom side doesnt have the backing to do anything about it at the moment.
I am !amused.
CuteMX, by the makers of CuteFTP
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ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Read this previous article on /. about the Sealand data haven.
They have their own laws and hosting music on Sealand will undoubtably be cheaper than paying off the record labels
The big question is would they be prepared to do it ?
Scour, from the little that I used it, had a much wider amount of material than Napster (Go OpenNap) to include of course the "clipart" (for purposes of this post clipart==pron) It also had a bunch of pictures of people you don't know and most likely don't want to know mpegs that where both legal, semi-legal, and not so legal (My copy of the Crazy video very clearly falls into the last, trailers that I think the studios would rather you have to go to their site to get would be in the second, and the various bits of clipart featuring Kobe Tai are clearly in the first. As I understand it from a article that I read yesterday they mostly went down because the VC would not give them money because of the suits pending due to the not legal content but there was a *lot* of stuff. The only downside was it always seemed slower then napster. Oh well at least we still have opennap now they just need to expand so they can have clipart also.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
May scour rest in peace. The capitialists just chalked up a kill. Odds are more will follow before they get shut down, if they ever do. Free file sharing is at stake here, and the freedom side doesnt have the backing to do anything about it at the moment.
What about the freedom of people to charge for what they spend time and money and sweat to produce? Ever consider THAT freedom?
I'm a partner in a film company. We're just getting started. I'd like to have the opportunity to recoup some of my investment at some point in the future -- cameras, lighting, actors pay, film stock, script writing, editing rooms, post production, audio dubbing, getting permission for music and/or scoring music, special effects, props, locations, film licenses (try filming on a street without it), etc etc etc cost MUCHO money. So if I'm willing to put the cash that I spend months, even years building up into making a movie, why should you get it for free whether I want you to or not?
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
The digital tokens used are the internet equivalent of the old upload/download ratios of BBS days applied to a distributed, decentralized P2P system. This isn't a "sharing" system, so it doesn't walk through your disk looking for things to give away; instead other users publish data to the system and it gets broken up into pieces, these pieces get RAID-like error correction and then they are sent out to other peers in the system. Downloads can use a swarm approach to pulling in data, taking a small piece from lots of peers (including those who might be on slow connections) rather than trying to shove the whole file down someone's (already overloaded) narrow upstream link.
Previous releases were a bit unstable, but the new 0.920 release that is available for download has a much better installer and significantly faster publishing and downloads. Check it out!
WTF do capitalists have to do with this? The victims were capitalists too. The problem is specifically with assholes, some of which happen to be capitalists.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I don't think true altruism ever exists. Even when you are giving, you are receiving too.
You put up files on the net so that your name will be credited, so that your "reputation" will be built up. This is your payment. There are enough people with low self-esteem to carry the weight of running the servers. These people value the time and work setting up a server less than they value a little respect.
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I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Well, I don't use Gnutella, but as far as Napster goes, I do allow people to download from me frequently. Why you ask? Well, I have some rare stuff that is hard to find. I guess I have always been of the mind that if I had a big problem searching and trying to find this music, then it is good for me to help people by allowing them to get it from me.
A lot of the music I get would be in the more international or obscure categories, everything from Molotov to Plastilina Mosh to Tarkan to the Minibosses. I have been unable to find some of the music I like in stores anywhere (my Plastilina Mosh CD's were purchased in Mexico) so I figure I might as well help expose someone else to the music I like so it can become more popular. Maybe then I can hear other rare music that I like that I can't find in the stores.
So yes, there are the majority of people that are leeching, and that's fine. But, there are some of us that actually like to share and do good deeds for other people.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
How is peer to peer any different than client-server? Non-commercial web sites also rely on altruism on the part of the person paying for the server. Do you think they're dead too? No, because some people have things that they want to say. Whether they build upon peer-to-peer or not, is completely irrelevant.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
The idea of groups of people sharing files is the one used behind Paranoia (link in my sig). Use it for groups of friends, or groups of people sharing a common interest, who can then talk and exchange files over Paranoia.
Major updates (generic access lists and distributed karma/trust calculations) coming next week...
Mike.
Tales from behind the Lagom Curtain
"Guess we'll have to wait for that multi media peer to peer system until Gnutella is solid."
I'm quite surprised I've seen no mention of Freenet in this dicussion. Freenet uses intelligent routing to find and remember the most efficient routes. Freenet also boasts intelligent file sharing (the most accessed files are mirrored all over). Couple that with the inability of one hostile group or person to remove files from the network and you have a kickass file sharing mechanism IMO. Very cool project... -Pato
G. Washington on Government "it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
With all of these peer to peer file sharing services going under, where is the evolution going to go from here? This is something i've though about lately, and not really done much research on just yet...
The problem that i see with these companies like Napster and Scour, is the fact that they have their own client-end software that each user must use to connect to their central "network" in order to share their files. What we need is a way to share files without connecting to a central netowrk (similar to gnutella), and also take it one step further, and eliminate the need for for a client-end application as well.
example : Virtual Private Networking. It's built into the operating systems that are installed on the majority of home PCs out there. (sorry for not providing a better example, because i doubt windows in the OS of the majority of people who are reading this)... I don't think it would be too difficult for someone to set up a similar (BETTER!) protocol, or work with VPN to make some improvements here and there.
Then again, i could just be talking out of my ass, since i don't know much about VPN... A friend of mine set up a VPN server, which i've connected into, and it works just peachy...
it was just one of those thoughts that come to you in the middle of the night...
Shameless Self Promotion : Webhosting at Blender Networks.
When I need an image for my own "devious projects," I usually start with Corbis Images. It has a huge selection and the samples are frequently good enough for my purposes. I use Photoshop to remove the Corbis mark and have what I need. Of course, this is only good for purposes where violating copyright isn't an issue, such as making a joke image to email to a friend, creating a mockup web page to show to a client, etc. I wouldn't recommend doing this for something that would get noticed.
"Does this just prove once again that one company cannot own a peer-to-peer file-sharing network?"
;-)
What it illustrates is that, given intellectual property issues, is that it is very difficult for one company to own a peer-to-peer file-sharing network. A company which had the inclination and resources to exert reasonable editorial controls over the content - say an AOL or a distributed version of Geocities or some similar notion - could certainly operate a PTP network in a similar manner to how non PTP communities with regulation of content and checks against IP infringement are operated.
In terms of open PTP networks, what one company, or a consortium, can do is to promote open standards and design recommendations in order to facilitate a global network of file-sharing (and in the case of my company's WebWorld project, also processor-sharing a'la SETI@Home). A modular design to allow to plug-in other protocols is also probably a good idea, since we don't yet know what standards may emerge and survive
The centralized notion leaves a single company vulnerable to control abuses, whereas by providing a technology and not a service one gives the responsibility over to the members of the network. However, it is unclear why services like Napster have not yet succeeded in the argument that like an unedited BBS they are just a repository, not a publishing/editorial board with a responsibility to prevent abuse. (If someone knows the details of this legal area, please post.)
o/~ we are pissed, we are pissed, we have to resist... o/~ - ec8or
Can Someone tell me why a search engine needs 60+ employees? I could understand with yahoo or something. But Scour could have been done with 5 good programmers and spare time.
Yea that is a really good idea, I could see it now:
"Hey, what is the deal with this trash can it won't accept any more trash"
"I don't know, lets have a look here, hrm yes, it appears to be full, to it's max capacitcy. Since it is complete full, anything attempted to be placed inside just rolls off the top, that would explain why that used coffee filter just rolled onto the floor"
"Yea, that is a logically explaination of why there is a 2 foot ring of coffee grounds baked into the carpet around this trash can."
"I think it is defective."
"Why So?"
"I had one of these at my last job, a trash can that is. I would fill it with stuff during the day and when I would come back the next day it was COMPLETELY empty and that white liner thing was replaced with a new or assumed to be new one"
"Yes, I remember at my prevoius job, at night I always ponder when I left that the trash was full but in the morning it was emptied. This trash can has been full for 2 weeks, it is obviously broken."
"Oh I also should note, I think there is a problem with the phone system. The phones just keeps RINGING AND RINGING and doesn't stop!"
"Yea, this place sucks, this guy claiming to be some magical "bill collector" keep coming up to me with this yellow peice of paper trying to talk to me. I got confused and huddled into a little ball on the floor, it scared me. This place is creepy"
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
The chaff is finally being weeded out.. Scour SUCKED. I hope the whole website tanks, it used to be usable, but as soon as they hooked up with i-drive, it went straight to hell.
BilldaCat
Easy, slick professional looking file sharing is dead, and it only makes sense. While a few people I'm sure used napster/scour for legal purposes, most of the users did not.
There will always be FTP/Usenet/IRC (and others) to share your files, but did any body really expect that deep down a company would be allowed to facilitate the quick and easy exchange of illegal materials?
The only reason why it lasted so long was because the triditional corporate/legal institutions did not understand the technology (and to a point, still don't) enough to break things up.
The best analogy I can think of is if somebody set up a 'trade your tapes' shop right next door to Sam Goody in the mall with a rack of duel decks installed that you could use for free. It would take a while for people to figure out if it was legal or not, but eventually it would be shut down. That doesn't mean people would'nt still be trading tapes with their freinds, it just means that there would be no central location to do it.
The Internet is generally stupid
One of the best file systems that I've found is VNN at vnn2000.com. Not only can you share and search for any kind of file but you can password protect and retrieve your own files. I find it really useful when I'm away from my computer... I can access my files anywhere.. and really easily too!
Wow, I actually saw the entire birth and death of scour.
Can Someone tell me why a search engine needs 60+ employees? I could understand with yahoo or something. But Scour could have been done with 5 good programmers and spare time.
I don't see it as getting shut down due to file sharing. I see it as getting shut down due to lack of funding. They weren't making money....they couldn't get another round of funding. There are plenty of these stories around right now.
I think it is typical of human nature to be willing to share that which is in excess of personal need. Obviously, giving a homeless person your rent money so they can buy dinner would be a great gesture, but in the grand scheme of things, it is probably doing more harm than good. The same kind of thing happens if I am intent on altruistically sharing files at the same time as I am maxing my connection out. Not only do I slow myself down, but I end up making all the transfers slower... So I agree, obviously the ideal solution tries to minimize interference with optimal performance for the owner of the machine, for everyone's benefit.
I do not have a signature
jim
what if that's what my employer has set up?
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
This is only "interesting" if you buy this particular brand of pessimism. I'm a completely different sort of pessimist. I believe that anything like Scour, Napster, or Usenet is largely doomed because the majority of the leeches and non-leeches are so dang stupid, that any content out there is likely to be 95% worthless because it is so banal. OTOH, altruism is not something about which we need to be concerned. Look at how many binaries are faithfully pumped into the Usenet world. Look at Free Software. Look at the United Way. Listen to those damn Salvation Army bells this holiday season. Even dark-hearted selfish louts like myself are glad to use up spare bandwidth (if we have any, that is) -- especially at times when our connection would otherwise be sitting idle or turned off-- to share files that may be of interest to others. So, human nature equals leech nature? I think not.
I do not have a signature
"clipart", you could just be looking for say, a specific kink, and find it?
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Ummm, what about IRC? Just about all the mp3's I've gotten have come from there.
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DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
VPN sounds interesting.
Is there a PPTP implementation for BSD? (er- Mac OS X)
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I used it regularly to find clipart for my own devious projects
"Clipart", eh? Is that what you call it?
It was bound to happen and we were all waiting for it. Napster is going commerical, Scour is dead, CuteMX has folded long time ago, Gnutella is a victim of its own popularity (doesn't scale) and what are we left with??? Online music is going back to it's roots; to various warez ftp sites. Unless something else (Freedom maybe) comes along.
Posted anonymously because otherwise everyone will think I am Karma-whoring/Trolling/whatever. Just an honest opinion.
Putting aside the MPAA, RIAA, and the right or wrong of copyrights, what was the real use of this software? Was there very much "legal" material on it? Or was it mostly a Napster work-alike for downloading MP3s ripped from CD?
I'd never heard of Scour Exchange until now so I'm just wondering.
http://www.cutemx.com/ :)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Napster + ability to share any file - quality control + heavily Flash-rendered home website - proper software development ethics (get it out of the alpha stage!) = Scour.
Totally. Look, just because Scour sucked, doesn't mean the base concept of peer-to-peer graphics sharing does. The use of Flash is one of my pet peeves - I have no need for it, and I'll stick to Quicktime.
What needs to happen is those complaining about the demise of Scour should take the lessons from its debacle and reengineer an open source replacement. Critical needs would be the use of repeater stations/nodes, some kind of level authentication (based on file offerings - someone with no sharing gets rated as level one, someone who has shared 1 file per 100 received is level two, someone who shares files and is a repeater station/node with 95 percent uptime is level three, a level three with 99.9 percent uptime and good bandwidth upload is level four. And no flash. None.
If you're at level one, you get to see banner ads (no popups or you're dropped) from someone at level three or four. If you're at level two, you can turn off banner ads. If you're at level three or four, you can offer banner ads - picked from the source through the repeaters to requestor (source gets 1/4 ads if also level 3 or four, repeaters share 3/4 ads along the chain, with closest repeater first in queue. This allows for a viable business model - it costs to serve up large graphics, but it's totally free if you just submit some every so often. Repeaters (level 3 or 4) get to vote (polling method) to blacklist someone from level 2 back down to level 1 if faked images (e.g. ads, pr0n, mislabelled/categorized) for 90 days. This keeps the spamsters/adsters out of the system. Blacklist applies to either entire domain or IP or IP gateway - again, repeaters need a 90 percent vote of all voting repeaters to do this.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
infoAnarchy reports on the many, many alternatives to Scour & Napster, be it distributed or centralized. It uses the K5 site engine, meaning anyone can submit stories and moderate submissions.
In our Resources section, you can get an overview of the many available file sharing tools. Here's the ones I would recommend:
But again, please come visit us at iA to find out about the best new tools. We know our stuff.
File sharing will never die.
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Damnit, this means it's back to playing whack-a-mole for an hour while trying to find some decent free porn.
Does this mean that Scour is bankrupt and the search engine is dead, or is it somehow "partially bankrupt" and able to continue with the search engine?
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Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
In order to download, search, or even upload, you must compensate your peers with Mojo, which represents the the resources of theirs you are consuming. To earn Mojo you must contribute your own resources to the network by setting the software to resell your own computing resources. It also features redundancy so servers can disappear without data disappearing. It's really cool, check it out.
Burris
Newsgroups. Download Forte Free Agent if you're running Windows (If you're in Linux the software you'll need is already there) and set it up to use your ISP's news server.
Not that I do any of that sort of thing. I only use Newsgroups to keep up to date on Quake mods and the latest info on getting my USB Orb drive to run under Linux...
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
MyNapster uses the Napster protocol but also allows you to search for pictures, videos, etc...
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DigitalContent PAC
OliverWillis.Com
An Operative with an Agenda
Where am I supposed to get my porn clips and movies now??!