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French Judge Demands Yahoo Censor Auctions
davejhiggins writes: "In this ruling a French judge has upheld an earlier ruling ordering Yahoo! to ban French users from buying Nazi memorabilia from its auction site. Even though the content is not accessible from www.yahoo.fr/ the ruling insists that even "the visualization in France of these objects" on the www.yahoo.com auction site constitutes a breach of French law and orders Yahoo to bar all French IPs from accessing it despite Yahoo's assertions that this would not guarantee that nobody in France would be able to see it." This kind of stuff annoys the hell out of me.
and is limited by our government. (Slander? Libel? Shouting fire in a crowded theater?)
This isn't just "Freedom of Shopping." The judge has said that even allowing people in France to view these items is forbidden. Under that ruling, it's perfectly ok for a totalitarian regime to bar access of its citizens to basic political information, foreign newspapers, etc. This gives legitimacy to suppression of fundamental freedoms and I think sets a dangerous precedent.
"If I have seen further than other men, it is by stepping on their glasses." - Michael Swaine
When the day when it is possible to see a frontal nudity (or even a breast, for god's sake!) on American TV before 22:30 or to hear 4 letter words, or to see somebody giving a finger without having a ridiculous mosaic on it has come, then maybe Americans will be able to start teaching lessons. 1st amendment, my ass, I've never seen such a bunch of blind hypocriticals.
For us, nazism means deads in our families, collective humiliations, foreign tanks parading in Paris, hunger, poverty, entire villages slaughtered (women and children included), genocide, shame on some of our citizens who became collaborators, etc... So, yeah, we're irrational about nazi icons, Jewish associations are very agressive to keep it that way, and in the end we're probably wrong. But I'd rather leave in a country which is irrational about nazism than in a country which is absurdly puritan about sex, alcohol and related, sorry.
If there's anything our good friends the French should have learned, it's that building an impenetrable defensive line is ludicrous. Why? Because you'll just have them go around your defenses through Belgium.
How can these be the same people who fashioned that proud lady in New York's harbor?
Have they learned nothing? The most powerful weapons the Nazi's possessed were not fashioned of steel and gunpowder, but crafted of words. Words that carefully rewrote history in the minds of their people. They so realized the power of this weapon that they quickly moved against those who offered words of truth or opposition.
The French are starting down a dangerous path that may leave their view of history distorted and risk having their children relive the tragedies and evils of the past.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
...hearing that Yahoo! was prepared to fight "any legal attack issued" by the French courts, France immediately surrendered to Yahoo! and invited shareholders to establish a secondary government in Vichy.
I've got it! It's all so simple!
We're going about this ALL wrong!
We simply need to have yahoo put a big button up on it's site to get in, asking: "Are you french?" (Yes/No). If they answer No, then everything is fine. If they answer yes, then it takes them to pokemon.com or something.
But wait, it gets better.
Under the DMCA, they could claim that this is an access control measure! And since american corperations have already demonstrated their willingness and ability to go after people in foreign countries, any evil French 1337 h4x0rz who got around the protection and offended themselves by accident could be hanged by the Yahoo mafia, as an example to others!
And if anyone in france complained, we could just say something witty like "if you expect us to adhere to your ridiculous laws, then you have to adhere to ours. And ours are riduclouser."
That's it, rather than fight all these annoying, yet legally powerful examples of absurdity in action, we should just get them to fight each other! I imagine that it wouldn't take more than a few hangings for french judges to get the point...
On the other. . .
Not only is the French law stupid and unenforcable, ( when such laws exist the people ALWAYS simply create a black market following free trade principles, they did this even in the USSR), BUT. . .
I am a Jew. Much of my family died in WWII. I know people with tattoos. None in my family though, my family wasn't quite so lucky. My family was not only killed, but their villages were destroyed and * all records that they had even existed were exunged from maps and public records.* I myself only exist because a few members had managed to emigrate between the wars. This was not easy for them, they were slaves. They were white, European, living in the 20th century, and slaves. They went from being slaves of the Czar to being slaves of the politburo.
All of this is just to lay some background for my opinion on the matter at hand.
The ONLY way to fight the rise facism and nazism in the future is to remember.
* Those who forget the past are condemed to repeat it.*
This quote is attributed to George Santayan, but dear George only made a memerable phrase of a sentiment that goes back in the written record at LEAST as far as Sun Tzu, and Napoleon once spoke almost the exact same words.
Here's what everyone who is concerned about such matters SHOULD do. Buy a dagger. One with SS prominantly displayed on the hilt. Pay whatever you have to get it and treasure it.
Now, take that dagger and stab it as hard as you can into your desktop, or your mantlepiece or perhaps your doorframe, someplace where you have to see it many times a day.
Everytime you look at it, stop. . . and make the mental climb up to the top of Masada and repeat to yourself:
"Never again, never again, never again."
THAT is the way to deal with the legacy of Nazism.
Hide your head in the historical sand and someday you'll wake up to find a bayonet stuck in your butt because you never saw it coming.
It seems to me that it ought to be a function of the model. Yahoo is not "sending" packets to France, but rather France is "requesting" packets from Yahoo.
If the French don't want the traffic, it seems it should be the responsibility of their ISPs to filter it. Otherwise, this akin to saying "We don't like Marcel Marceau, so you can't transmit any programs with him in it", rather than us just telling cable carriers that we shall carry no programming with him in it (and we shouldn't. I hate mimes.)
Once again, this simply reflects the ignorance of the law (and government officials in general) of how the internet works. Websites don't "send" traffic, people request it. Solve the problem in your own country, not someone elses.
And while I'm certainly no fan of Nazi war memorabilia (I do want an Enigma machine, tho. Anyone got one for sale?), who is the government to tell their people what they can and cannot own? That's just censorship and oppression. And perhaps a violation of human rights. If YOU don't like war memorabilia, then how about YOU don't buy any? Don't inflict your viewpoints/religion/etc on me. Live it for yourself.
--jcwren