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Linux Sin Demo
Jacek Fedorynski writes: "A playable demo of Sin, the first person shooter originally by Ritual, has been released by Hyperion Entertainment. It weighs about 40 MB." It looks good. I haven't gotten the mouse working yet, but I've only been futzing with it for a few minutes, so it's probably just me.
For linux to be accepted by the main stream it needs a load of good games. But not only that, these games need to work first time. Put in the CD, click, click and wait for the pretty installer (see Red Alert 2).
Once thats finished click, click, load up the game. People dont want to have to change their config files to get the mouse to work! If a slashdot editor cant get a game working within a few minutes, how long will it take joe luser?
Dont get me wrong, I love linux, I have a couple of loki games, and play tuxracer every day. I havent been to windows for weeks, and that was so I could watch some asfs.
On the bright side:
The point a year ago, or even a few months ago, is the general public wont use linux until games are ported, and they wont be ported until people use linux.
Now it's:
People wont use linux until there are good games that are easily set up.
Unfortunatly there still isnt much gping on in many publishers eyes. A few days ago I got this from Hasbro, with regard to Civ 3.
Development of this product has not yet began. The developers are at this
time only finalising concepts and design functions. There are no plans for
any Linux versions and no current plans to allow outside companies to
publish Linux editions of any of our catalogue titles - sorry.
Which is sad.
Also, I noticed that CTP2 was nearly out now. I havent heard a work about it from loki, even though they ported CTP.
Its a sad fact tha game on linux, although very fast now with xfree 4, arent ported on time and arent set up as easily as their windows counterparts. The only exception is Quake 3. (I havent managed to set up UT yet). Apart from them, gaming is a loss on linux. For now.
http://www.hyperion-software.com/_linux/news_00110 4.html
Enjoy!
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
The only problem witth the "all or nothing" mentality is that it will always be "nothing" unless smaller steps are successful. Most game developers aren't going to support the latest versions of their games without some incentive. They are for-profit companies. You have two basic choices:
- Buy the games that come out for Linux
- Forget about commercial support at all
If you don't subscribe to #1, then your choice is #2, which may be just fine (I don't imagine RMS is losing any sleep over this). But please stop whinning about the current situation -- either buckle in and do something to support these Linux game companies (Hyperion could use all the support they can get; they are a very small group) or just forget about it.The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
While I like Linux as much as the next guy, a commercial Linux-only game doesn't make good business sense and an open source one will most likely get ported by someone else if it's that fantastically popular (and, of course, it's a moot point if the game is unpopular -- you don't see people lining up aroudn the corner to play /usr/games/mille).
And there are a number of open-source games, some of which have been mentioned on Slashdot.
One interesting project that hasn't is Star Control: Timewarp. Unfortunately, the current development is DOS-centric and there are some brain-dead coding practices, but I did manage to get it up and running on my Linux box with some fiddling.
Linux - for all those old crappy FPS games you love.
Seriously. SiN came out how long ago and we're JUST getting a DEMO of the thing? Why do companies even waste the money paying developers to produce such stuff? If you want to make a Linux game, put it out the same time as the Windows game. Don't pay your developers to produce a demo version of an old game. This is counter active to the whole Games for Linux "movement". These companies are losing money making old games for OS' a small minority use, and games a small minority plays. Assuming SiN for Linux full version was released, can anyone truthfully tell me it has an audience big enough to break even on it's production?
Your mouse doesn't work. I'm so surprised. Not. Even this DEMO doesn't work right. This is why Linux will not be a gaming operating system anytime soon. If something as trivial as the mouse doesn't work out of the box, the average person who had trouble enough figuring out how to load the CD-ROM into the drive isn't going to fix it.
I'll agree with the majority of posts here, X is the root of all problems. In grand UNIX tradition, we've taken technology and kept slapping stuff on top of it to make it look modern. X needs to go, and pronto. It's too modular for it's own good. Layer upon layer upon layer is too SLOW. Someone needs to come up with a GUI of sorts where the UI is integrated into the Windowing system. Make it infinitely skinnable and you'll still get all the customization you want.
Then again, what do I know.
I'm just a user.
The one that talks with the female EVA. She explains the install instructions. Now, that would be perfect!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Lets put it this way: Windows never works perfectly 100% right after installation. I usually have to spend about a hour (sometimes two or thre, depending on the hardware) tweaking things, installing drivers, and figuring out why something has mysteriously decided to commit suicide. Windows programs are about the same. Especially Windows games. My install cycle for a Windows game usually averages about 30 minutes, including patch hunting, driver updating, and all the other things required to play games.
Remember that most hardcore (or moderately hardcore) gamers are almost as big-time techies and perfection nuts as Linux users, and almost as diverse. No install program's going to satisfy all of them by a long shot.
-RickHunter
X is well-designed, well-functioning, excellent technology. In fact, it is very well capable of handling games like this.
Why doesn't it, you ask? The main problem is that no one actually uses the technology that's there. How often do you see 3D games using GLX or PEX? You're not supposed to draw all the damn pixels manually! That's what GLX and PEX are for... if people did that, 3D over X would be fast and responsive. How often do you see programs using XIE? If programs like Netscape and GIMP used XIE, they would run much, much faster. The list goes on.
The other problem is that XFree86 has been notoriously faulty and unfriendly, and people attribute this to X. This is not X at all, but one implementation of X.
As far as toolkit standards, GUESS WHAT THERE IS A TOOLKIT STANDARD. It's called Motif, and it's actually very good technology--but again, most people who knock it really don't know the full extent of what it can do, and don't know how to use most of its technology. Motif is far better IMO than Qt and Gtk, and it is actually the standard GUI for UNIX and VMS. Furthermore, THERE IS A STANDARD DESKTOP ENVIRONMENT. CDE is also an excellent technology with the ability to do really impressive things--the distributed object model of ToolTalk, the Information Manager, the help system, the spartan interface--it's really the best there is, and it's also the standard for UNIX and VMS.
The problem is not X. The problem is that people don't educate themselves as to what X, Motif, and CDE can really do. Trust me, if people did, 99.99% of programs would work hugely better and faster. There would be no problem with games if people actually USED GLX and/or PEX for their 3D rather than this DRI bullshit. X is really, really good technology.
Yea, but we're not talking Windows just the game. Your install cycle for Windows is too long because
;) Plus, patches are part of the experience on all non-console OSs. (Which is another reason why a harddrive is such a dumb idea for a console.)
A) You don't keep your system up to date to begin with. If none of the drivers on your system are older than 30 days, you'll be a happy man in Windows-land.
B) You play crappy games and/or on crappy hardware. If anything from ATI is on your system, or your game developer's name has Sierra anywhere on it, please do us all a favor and try some decent games/hardware before complaining. My hardware is Dell conservative: Intel, NVIDIA, Microsoft, Altec-Lansing, Creative Labs. The most oddball thing I have on my system is Linksys. If you buy anything with less than 50% market share (or a nice relationship with MS) then you deserve any problems you get. (Sad, but true.) To tell the truth, Linux is hard to install no matter WHAT hardware you use. Futzing is just something that has to be done.
C) Install programs can and do satisfy gamers. People don't cralize that gamers aren't into tweeking, they're into playing. They CAN tweek, but don't want to.
You shouldn't have to tweek to play a game. In Windows, you generally don't have to. I get the MaximumPC disc that comes full of demos every month. I can tell you that at least a dozen games go on and off my harddrive in the space of a few days. I have yet to have to futz to install any of them. Install patches yes, but unless the developers are monkeys, installing them takes 5 minutes (on a DSL line
If Windows sucks that badly for you, then you're doing something wrong.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
If you get far enough into the demo, you should get to the serectry mainframe. They emulated it to look a lot like a DOS termial. YOu can type in stuff and look through directors and stuff. It was pretty limited though, it wouldn't let me reformat it ;-).
--
Like I said, if you don't use hardware that doesn't have 50% market share, don't come complaining. Windows is very finacky about hardware, that's just the way it is. I don't like it, but if you use the right hardware, it isn't nearly as bad as everyone says it is. Your Matrox Millenium does NOT classify as the right hardware. Its 3D features are hideously limited, I'm not sure if it can do texturing, and if you turn on more than one 3D feature at a time, it breaks. The reason you had to turn on software rendering is because you basically have a 2D-only card. Its a good 2D card, but developers like MS cannot be expected to support crappy hardware. The fact that they support it at all is a miracle.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
What I'm waiting for is the moment Linux binaries will be shipped with the official version of games at the same release date.
:-)
I think that until then, many people won't even bother trying them. Not that it refrains me from trying, ofcourse
I've been told that RedHat 7 (deluxe edition or whatever it's called) includes some popular games ported by Loki, which is cool for mainstream acceptance I think.
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
A group of my friends and I have invested several hours playing multiplayer Sin. We all agree that although it's not the best first person shooter (that honor goes to UT), it is probably one of the most under-rated first person multiplayer games.
The weapons are great. It's got the self-guided rocket (similar to what you can do with the Redeemer's secondary fire in UT except it's just a standard rocket), the 'nuke', sniper rifle, concussion gun, and many others I just cannot remember (It's been a while since we've played). In fact, many of the cool features found in UT were features available in Sin. Coincidence?
Also available is a power-up that turns you into an incredibly fast and mean beast that can tear your enemy to pieces in no time flat. Most weapons have an alternate mode (my biggest complaint of all of the Quake games). And in several of the CTF maps you have access to the same mounted machine guns found in the helicopter in the first level of single player mode. Very cool.
Oh yeah, and you can also punch and kick in the absence of a weapon. At times, we would just say "Ok, just fists!" and all run to a certain point in a level and just duke it out. It kicked ass!
But probably the coolest thing of all is in the add-on pack 'Wages of Sin' (hopefully this will be ported to Linux also). In several of the Wages multi player levels there were hoverbikes! You could hop on one of these vehicles and 'fly' around the level about 1-2 feet off the ground shooting rockets, lasers, or dropping mines for anyone following you. You could ram each other, shoot each other off the bikes, or shoot the bikes out from underneath someone (credit one frag for that feat!). You could jump off the bike and get to a high spot and just snipe the bikers if you wanted to. The possibilities are limitless. I have not seen anything like those hoverbikes in any other first person shooter. And I don't know why. They were so much fun. And they weren't unbalanced like it thought they might be a first. If someone was just dominating on a bike, hop on one yourself. Or if the bike is slowing you down, jump off.
Ahhh, the days of sinning. Looks like I'm going to have to get the gang together again;)
"Beware KingShit!"
I note in this context that the Tomb Raider series has had two villainous businesswomen in it, Jacqueline Natla in #1 and Sophia Lee in #3, and both of them were much more appropriately dressed. And although that series has gotten a lot of criticism for the proportions of its lead character, her outfits are actually fairly reasonable if sometimes too little, and not too different from what many women nowadays wear. There certainly has to be something to be said about a female character whose main footwear is hiking boots instead of high heels.
So dressing women reasonably can certainly be done in a computer game -- what reason would there be to do otherwise other than gratuitous sexploitation?
I haven't gotten the mouse working yet, but I've only been futzing with it for a few minutes, so it's probably just me.
Serioulsly, who among us wants to spend the time downloading a 40 meg game, then have to "futz around with it" for it to work? I don't think I would ever bother, let alone average Joe windows user. Until Linux developers realise that most PC users don't get as much joy out of messing with ther PC's as they do, Linux will remain as a non-majority OS.
If you developed a piece of software for windows, and after installation, the mouse didn't work, most people wouldnt try to "futz around with it", theyd take it back to the store and say its broken. Which is totally correct, because it IS broken. If a piece of software doesn't work perfectly right after instalation, its not finished.
The Open Source community really has to work harder at hammering down "final" versions of products and making sure that developer releases are really developer releases. Allowed to download and use, but clearly marked as for testing only, not general use.
---There is no spoon....---
Isn't this game older than dirt?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Like making an OpenGL rendering layer to a DirectX engine. After all, that's what Hyperion did with the Monolith LithTech engine. The Shogo:MAD demo plays as well as the Windows version and at the same speed. Running under the WINE layer would make it slow compared to a Windows game (like it would be under the WINE emulation app...) and since games are all about speed and interactivity- that's going to go over like a lead balloon.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
It was my understanding that anything other than Voodoo support was still a "developer's release"- that could be wrong (and any of the VA Linux team working on it right now are more than welcome to correct me! :-). Developer's releases aren't guaranteed to do anything- they might sit there and do nada and they might just melt down your entire system.
As for Shogo, try with the +GLZReverse 1 option in the advanced settings- I had the same problems with it on my G400 and RagePRO machines until I plugged that in.
By the way...
The reason why the drivers all seem to work for Q3 and qforge is that all of the G400 code was written with Q3 as a reference app (I know, I bought a copy with that in mind when I was working up to doing RagePRO and other chipsets under Utah-GLX!) so it's going to work cleanly under these. Other applications stress the OpenGL layer differently and might find untested/incomplete pathways in the drivers. It's why I've been trying to work with the companies that are working on getting games out- to see where the holes are in Utah... Right now, I'm snowed under with work, personal obligations (performances in a play, etc...), and a raftload of bugs that Loki handed me on a platter recently.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Yeay the fact that another (semi)mainstream game is being ported to linux, but... I bought my copy of Sin in the CompUSA bargain bin for $5..Usually by the time it hits the bargain bin, it's considered long outdated software. Not to mention they needed to solve the load time bug/problem, which in my opinion really detracted from an otherwise good game. Has it really taken them 3 or 4 years to convert this game? I thought it was just 3 or 4 .pak or .id files (with whatever extension they wanted to use when making their own). Wasn't this game just a professionally done mod?
anybody ever have problems opening the doors in sin? as a consequence, I never really got that far in my 5$ game, guess for $5 it wasn't worth more than an hour of my time, the training facility was fairly badass though.
moox. for a new generation.
No doubt. I've spent the past two weeks (nights only:) in front of my 98 machine playing Red Alert (yes, the first one) and I'll be in front of it for the next two with RA2. These games (and most RTS) aren't 3D, so they should be MUCH easier to port. I guess. I'm not a programmer either.
(BTW, got C&C:RA2 Spec. Ed. at www.ebworld.com for the same price as the regular edition.)
It shouldn't be too much longer. Eventually, Linux will surpass MacOS on the desktop (hell, it did on mine, and I used to bleed six colors) and we might be seeing games at least as early (late?) as the Mac versions.
Now if only Quicken2000 were available on Linux...
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
That no one has made a humorous comment on the "qui tollis peccata mundi" thing yet. Like the fact that someone on the /. staff knows a Latin phrase...or the fact that someone on the /. staff can spell it. <grin>
SIN Screenshot