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Open Source Developer's Agreement

ajv writes: "We've just released our open source developer's agreement. The OSDA allows companies or employees to negotiate into their employment contracts the certainty of owning IP they develop under clear guidelines. This will help all the people out there who develop open source software but are afraid to release it, or more likely, are afraid their boss will react and ask for it to be taken down or ask for a cut of the (non-existent) action. Get it on the main Web site, or on SourceForge."

21 of 54 comments (clear)

  1. Why do we need this? by Dan+Hayes · · Score: 2

    After all, anyone developing software whilst they should be working is wasting their employer's time and resources, and if they're lucky enough not to be sacked then anything they produce is certainly the property of the employer - this is only fair. If you work in McDonalds and you take some ingrediants and make a burger, you sure as hell don't own that burger, why should open source software be any different from that, or even from closed source software. Just because you release the code shouldn't give it some magical status over any other program.

    This seems another example of how open source advocates are pushing too hard to gain acceptance of open source and free software as a valid option for programs. Yes, open source should be taken on an equal footing as closed source, but it shouldn't be given any special rights or status, because that makes it appear as though it needs the help to compete with closed source software. And trust me, the more people try and get things like this for open source, the more that stubborn CTOs are going to resist it in favour of the latest technology in Computer Weekly.

    1. Re:Why do we need this? by b0z · · Score: 5
      After all, anyone developing software whilst they should be working is wasting their employer's time and resources, and if they're lucky enough not to be sacked then anything they produce is certainly the property of the employer - this is only fair.

      You have a good point, but if you were a programmer/developer/coder of some sort, you have to sign a NDA, which basically prohibits you from doing any development at all outside of your work environment, and if you do, it belongs to them. That means that the perl scripts I write at home for my website belong to my employer. That is the biggest problem and what the main focus of this documentation is about. There are people that want to work on open source projects at their job, but unless it somehow benefits their employer I don't think it's a good idea.

      And trust me, the more people try and get things like this for open source, the more that stubborn CTOs are going to resist it in favour of the latest technology in Computer Weekly.

      Managers will always choose the products that they percieve their peers would use or think is cool, and the companies that give them the most freebies. Never underestimate the power of a bad product, and a company with money to take your boss to a nice lunch and a game of golf.

      --
      Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
    2. Re:Why do we need this? by Mawbid · · Score: 5
      Try to at least skim the information linked to in the articles before replying. In this case, a quick glance reveals the clarifying phrase "without using the employer's resources".

      And if you think an employer would never dream of taking ownership of an employee's off-hours work, just ask Evan Brown what he thinks of the idea.
      --

      --
      Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
    3. Re:Why do we need this? by ideut · · Score: 2
      Interesting. So I have no control over the products of my own mind? Who does, the government?

      It is your brain, not your brawn, that your employer is hiring for eight hours a day. They should reasonably expect control over what they pay you to produce. What you produce in your own time should be yours

      Also, if you are working and want to own the means of production, become self employed. It's a free market. Don't moan because someone else had more initiative than you.

      I venture that you are a middle class student.

      --

      --

    4. Re:Why do we need this? by scrytch · · Score: 3

      You have a good point, but if you were a programmer/developer/coder of some sort, you have to sign a NDA, which basically prohibits you from doing any development at all outside of your work environment, and if you do, it belongs to them

      Maybe the one you signed. I've signed a few NDA's and gone onto projects covered by NDA, but all they said was that I couldn't talk about very clearly named specifics: a product idea, the purpose of a project, the composition of the team, etc. Wow. If you signed anything that says your time is not your own, I suggest renegotiating your contract or getting out while the getting's good.

      --
      I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
    5. Re:Why do we need this? by Alan+Jay+Weiner · · Score: 2

      ...but if you were a programmer/developer/coder of some sort, you have to sign a NDA, which basically prohibits you from doing any development at all outside of your work environment, and if you do, it belongs to them.

      Not always true. The company I work for explicitly allows outside work. The rules are pretty sensible and common sense - your off-time work must not directly compete with a project you're on, nor use intellectual property from another project the company's worked on, etc, but if it's on your time: you write it, you own it.

      Check out http://www.communica.com - it was started by an engineer, it's an engineer's company, and engineers are treated well. I've got almost as much income and freedom as when I was a contractor. (we're looking for engineers, too - if you're interested in working on Cape Cod [Bourne, MA] call or email - and there is the usual referal bonus, so if you apply, please mention my name... :)

      - ajw -

    6. Re:Why do we need this? by sjames · · Score: 2

      After all, anyone developing software whilst they should be working is wasting their employer's time and resources, and if they're lucky enough not to be sacked then anything they produce is certainly the property of the employer - this is only fair.

      So naturally, anything work related I do at home on my computer (when I should be off) belongs solely to me! Should I have a brilliant work related Idea at 3 in the morning when I should be sleeping, it's all mine!

      No, I don't believe the above. I do believe that it's a give and take situation and that if the employer doesn't mind using my brilliant 3A.M. idea or having me bang out a few inspired lines of code on the weekend, said employer has no right to mind if I have and use a brilliant non-eork related idea during work hours or mind me banging out a few inspired non-work related lines of code at work.

      If they want my entire creative output 24/7, they must pay me proportionally. Given that sleep is usually not directly productive (even if productivity can't happen without it), and that I'm not usually as focused of programming during my off hours, and factoring in that my non-sleep off hours do exceed my work hours (ideally anyway), I'd say let 'em get by with double pay if they want it all.

      The difference between this and McDonald's is that at McDonalds, off is off and working is working. A food worker at McDonalds is not likely to come up with a revolutionary idea that will improve the bottom line at any hour of the day. Even if they do, it won't be used, and if they are smart, they will either use their idea for their own chain or take their ideas to the highest bidder.

      This seems another example of how open source advocates are pushing too hard to gain acceptance of open source and free software as a valid option for programs. Yes, open source should be taken on an equal footing as closed source, but it shouldn't be given any special rights or status, because that makes it appear as though it needs the help to compete with closed source software. And trust me, the more people try and get things like this for open source, the more that stubborn CTOs are going to resist it in favour of the latest technology in Computer Weekly.

      Actually, by restricting things to Open Source and only on own time/equipment, the developer is being more than fair and reasonable.

    7. Re:Why do we need this? by sethg · · Score: 2
      When my employer was acquired by Lucent, we got handed a new IP-assignment form. In exchange for being allowed to work for Lucent, we were asked to assign rights to any IP we created during or outside of work time that was related to Lucent's current or potential business.

      As a co-worker of mine pointed out, if he signed that document and Lucent decided to go into the "content" business, his personal Web site would suddenly become Lucent's property.

      I crossed out three or four words, so the contract no longer covered my "extracurricular" work, initialed the change, signed it, and sent it in. They never complained.
      --

      --
      send all spam to theotherwhitemeat@ropine.com
    8. Re:Why do we need this? by pen · · Score: 2
      In no way did I mean to imply my agreement or disagreement with Karl Marx's ideas and views. I just pointed out that what the original poster was saying was very very familiar to me, having been raised in the USSR.

      --

  2. i wish.. by comradebren · · Score: 2

    well, i'm about to graduate from college, and have already signed a NDA/Non Competitive/Development Agreement with my first employer. I've lent a hand to a few open source projects, and have a couple other things of my own going on. I wish i had language like that before to ammend the document i signed to protect my interest in developing for "not the corporation". OSDA is something i support, and hope others endorse it as well. Hopefully I'm the last crop the has to put up with these sort of IP enslavements, and maybe in the first batch able to have our IP rights recaptured.

    1. Re:i wish.. by gdiersing · · Score: 2

      The world needs ditch diggers too.

  3. Calibrate the system! by joel.neely · · Score: 2
    It would be A Good Thing for those of us who work in the corporate world to raise this issue with our management pre-emptively. This will allow us to:
    • Find out where we stand
    • Find out where they stand on Open Source
    • Avoid premature death of another promising project due to an avoidable complication.
  4. Re:You don't get something for nothing. by knife_in_winter · · Score: 2

    I feel sorry for you. I mean, if you really think your employer has that much power over you, you must live a really stifled life.

    When you sign a contract with an employer, especially regarding IP, they only have a right to anything you develop for the company, on company time, with company property.

    Taking a paycheck home to feed, clothe and house yourself and your family does *not* mean your home and your life suddenly become company property. Your salary is (hopefully) fair compensation for the services you render the company.

    And if for some reason, you did sign over those rights, you made a mistake and that's your own fault.

    Now, it does get a little sticky if the Open Source software you are developing "competes" with the proprietary software you are developing for the company. Even so, it is up to you to read, understand and agree with the IP contract you signed. If you don't agree with it, then don't sign it; or if you have to, don't work for that company.

    What price your ideals against being corporate property?

    Nothing can possiblai go wrong. Er...possibly go wrong.
    Strange, that's the first thing that's ever gone wrong.

    --

    Tyler's words coming out of my mouth.
  5. A testimonial by MouseR · · Score: 5

    A few years ago, friends and i had started building an OS from scratch. Dubbed Pandora, we have a kernel that boots more machines than current Darwin can (you guessed it: PowerPC Macs).

    I was responsible for the UI part (I claim no credits to the kernel, which also has a MacsBug-like debuger).

    When I started working for my current employer (which also supports Linux for it's commercial apps), I wanted to make sure that my UI project ("Moira") was safe from any corporate entanglement. I had them sign a "copyright disclamer" wich specifically specifies that my employer disclaims any copyrights and interest in the project, thus protecting it.

    On the other hand, this only covers this project, and I must ensure anything else doesn't go against the company's NDA (which I signed).

    Both parties therefore are protected in what I feel is a mutually equitable agreement.

    Karma karma karma karma karmeleon: it comes and goes, it comes and goes.

  6. The submitter is unclear... by Riplakish · · Score: 4
    about on whose time this code is being written.

    If this is about code written on company time, I can't see how it can be justified that the developer owns the IP.

    However, if the software is being developed outside of the employer, on a machine not owned by the employer, with software not owned by the employer, then I could see how this might be useful. There are quite a few companies out there that have policies stating that any software developed by an employee is IP of the company. Personally, I have worked under three different policies:

    While I was in the USAF, I took a part-time job with Computer City, a CompUSA clone owned by Tandy the parent company of Radio Shaft, to make ends meet. Computer City required employees to sign an agreement signing over IP rights to Tandy for anything developed while a Computer City employee. I explained to the store manager that I couldn't sign the agreement for 2 reasons: 1) I had philosophical problems with the agreement. 2) Tandy would have a few problems claiming IP rights on software developed for the Air Force, especially when it was classified as Top Secret. The manager waived the agreement, and I was able to continue working for the company without it.

    My next job was with a bank that had the same policy as Tandy. As a condition of my employment, I demanded a signed waiver stating that the policy would not apply to me. I basically told them that unless I maintained IP rights for anything I developed on my own time, I would not work for them. They had no problem with with waiving the agreement, and I got it in writing.

    My current employer has it written in the corporate policy that employees own IP rights to anything written on the employees time. It is also in the employment contract. My employer is enlightened enough to know that people have lives outside of the company, and has acknowledged it.

    Basically it comes down to how much you want to work for a particular company. If it is important enough to you, demand you IP rights in writing, and be prepared to refuse to work for them unless you get them.

    1. Re:The submitter is unclear... by trog · · Score: 2
      If this is about code written on company time, I can't see how it can be justified that the developer owns the IP.

      This logically makes sence; however, there are a few instances that "company time" never ends. I, for one, am on call 24-hours a day, 7-days a week.

      In my case, it can be argued that "all" my time is "company time". Fortunately, our CTO (my direct supervisor) is first and formost a hacker and an engineer; his policy with outside projects is do whatever I like, just let him know ahead of time.

      I've even convinced him to release a number of things that I've developed at work that NEED to be peer reviewed (read: cryptographic protocols for the secure handling of credit cards).

      His position is that outside projects enhance your abilities to do work for the company, and he whole-heartedly encourages it. I am very fortunate to be working for such a liberal-minded company.

    2. Re:The submitter is unclear... by ajv · · Score: 2

      I made the posting /. submitter friendly - it's unique to /. - I posted several other places that just accepted the story as is. To get on /. I had to be economical with the truth, supply a link into another slashdot story (more ad revenue) and be seen to be pro-open source. I don't think we'd get published if we didn't do these things. Sorry to be Machiavellian on you, but /. story quality has declined seriously since the days when I first joined.

      SAGE-AU have four initial agreements which can be added to your contract. We acknowledge the four we have do not necessarily cover every situation. This is why we have placed it on SourceForge, so it can take on a life of its own.

      --
      Andrew van der Stock
  7. This worked by MrChips · · Score: 2
    Two years ago I wrote the following to the committee that oversaw my position to inquire about the rights to some software I was working on. Weeks later I got a letter back from a lawyer of the University granting me the copyright to the software in question. (Note: don't flame me if I don't appear to understand the GPL. This letter was written 2 years ago and I know alot more now.)
    Hi,

    This message is rather long and involved. Brace yourselves.

    I have been developing a piece of software that should make accessing our datatapes much easier, especially for those who don't program in Fortran. This software has been in the works for almost as long as I have worked here and it is starting to seem as though I should get it working and available for general use. The software will be custom taylored for our datatapes, but is also generally applicable to any type of database and could, in my opinion, be useful to people other than us.

    I have one problem that needs to be resolved first. Who owns the copyright to this software? [My boss] has suggested that I pose this question to the members of this committee for comments. I have referred to the copyright section of my contract (that of a sessional academic) and will quote the following paragraph to you:

    10.01 The University shall be owner of the copyright and of all copyright works produced by a staff member who has been engaged by the University to prepare such works for the University or part of whose normal responsibilities to the University is the preparation of such works.

    I understand that the Fortran access routines and sample programs, along with their documentation I write is owned by the University. This is not in question.

    The software in question has been developed by me both on my own time and on University time. I was never asked to develop this software. Until now, no one, except [a coworker], has known that I have been writing this software.

    I believe that we all have the same copyright section in our contracts so if any of you wish to read the entire section, you should have it. If not, it is available online at:

    [url to contract]

    My interpretation of the contract is:

    a) The University must retain the right to use, free of charge, the software in question.
    b) If the software is to be sold, the value of the University resources consumed must be calculated and repaid on a fixed schedule.

    The copyright I wish to apply to this software is the Free Software Foundation's General Public Licence (GPL). All the terms can be read at:

    http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html#S EC3

    This licence essentially abandons ownership of the software and ensures that no one can take ownership and apply terms. Anyone can freely use, copy, and modify the software, including the University. My thought is that this licence should satisfy the 'spirit' of the copyright section of my contract. The University will not recieve any money to pay back the resources I have used, but would benifit from the use of the software.

    I am concerned about the ramifications of simply going ahead and doing what I want to do. I suspect that I would be safer with some sort of written permission to do this. I wish to know what you think about this.

    I actually don't care who holds the copyright as long as the terms are those I have stated above. I suspect it would be simpler if I hold the copyright, but recognizing the University in the copyright notice is fine by me.

    Chris.

  8. A good start... by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 2
    This looks like a good first draft. There are a number of big issues that this doesn't hit on (the quickest that comes to mind is that of non-competition) but it's a great foundation to build from. If nothing else, it's another step in the right direction for employees: getting armed with contracts and clauses of their own when entering into a workplace.

    $ man reality

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

  9. For *OFF-HOURS* development! by Hunk+of+Cheese · · Score: 2

    People seem to be missing the point here. Of course, if you are employed, the work you create for hire, to get your salary, is the property of your employer. What is annoying, is when your employer insists that work you do unpaid, on your own time, is theirs as well.
    My employer does this, apparently for no reason since no one in HR could come up with any reasonable excuse for keeping that clause in the contract. I negotiated an exception when I hired on without much trouble.

  10. This is a good start by renehollan · · Score: 3
    In general, I avoid NDAs where I sign away rights to code I develop on my own time unless it clearly relates to something I'm doing for hire.

    But this goes further than that. It explicitly codifies what such things are, protecting the coder. Furthermore, there's a whole 'nother aspect to this: the company that recycles Free (as in FSF) anf Open Source software in the products it produces.

    Where I work we aggregate a great deal of code with Free software (specifically, major portions pf Red Hat [GNU/]Linux). Sometimes we extend GPL code (and will have to release our changes when we ship product). We've actually had RMS here to address our developers on the GPL and sensitize them to the fact that we take complience with it seriously. But, once you start using the fruits of the open and free sofware communuties, even if you ensure GPL complience, there's somewhat of a moral pressure to give something back, i.e. release your own original code as GPL, or otherwise open.

    With this in mind, I've been striving for us to take the position that code we develop is either strategic to a product or product line, or not. If not, I argue that it should be GPL for two reasons: First, it helps make us good free and open software community corporate citizens. Second, it often represents overhead code that doesn't generate direct revenue through licensing, but requires support nevertheless. A community of people who can also use and extend it, is therefore a benefit. Sometimes we produce code that is stillborn: it would have to be released under the GPL if we distributed binaries, but we have decided not to make it part of a product. Why let such code rot? Why not give it away, in the hopes it might find a home?

    Often, other than legal GPL complience, the effort to do these things is not justified by the company. an appropriate OSDA agreement would empower employees who feel this way, to release such code themselves, without fear of reprisials. That can only be a good thing.

    --
    You could've hired me.