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Applix Exits Linux Desktop UPDATED
The folks at Newsforge have got a story up regarding Applix exiting the Linux desktop market. Applix has been making ApplixWare for the desktop market, but has found the competition from the free office products to be too rough -- but they are continuing to work on the server-side versions. I've been contacted by VistaSource, the company that is owned by Applix, doing Applixware - they want to make it clear that while they are focusing on serverware, they are not doing away with the desktop completly - but that development will continue on both desktop and server versions.
The most important thing to grab large numbers of users would be seamless exchange with Microsoft users. The price wasn't exorbidant, about fifty bucks for an office suite, but forcing export via RTF would be enough of a reason for a corporate I/S department to shoot it down.
It's too bad, it looks like a solid package, the spread sheet looks better than any of the others I've seen under Linux (though screen shots can always look pretty) but again the lack of formats seemed to guarantee a quick death.
Honestly,
;)
I wanted to try ApplixWare...
However, the lack of actually being able to try it before I buy really put me off. There are some damn good alternatives as well.
I'm not sure what I am afraid of when closed source vendors start stalking the linux market. Maybe I should be happy... maybe I should rejoice... but damnit.. deep down I am just a scared little penguin
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Yup! This Thanksgiving my ext family gathered at my parents' (I was not there since I am a bad son). My parents use Linux and their "office suite" is StarOffice 5.2 whether on Linux or Windows. ANyway, while I wasn't there my sister got a phonecall from her boss at XXXXXXXX bigtime B2B asp company. Had she seen the email he sent her? No she hadn't. She opens email in My mum's desktop Linux acct. in Netscape and saves .ppt attachment to /home/mum . After instruction from me, opens Powerpoint display in StarOffice. It just works and opens the presentation for her review and OK, and she's doesn't miss a beat working in Linux, instead of Windoh's! .5 sec (spent telling sis that the powerpoint "application" in Linux is called StarOffice.
Time to retrain:
Cost of installed OS = $0
Cost of installed office suite =$0
Value of giddy moment when pointy haired sister realizes that MS software is $600 of deadloss per employee (plus lost opportunity value thereof)= priceless!
Keep in mind that the FAQ refers to the closed StarOffice 5.x, which is only distributed in SPARC or x86 binaries.
OpenOffice, which is to StarOffice what Mozilla is to Netscape, is available in source form (CVS or Rhode Island-sized tarball), so xBSD, PowerPC, and Alpha users don't have to worry about binary-only distribution.
We're not scare-mongering/This is really happening - Radiohead
This sig intentionally left blank.
> "as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee"
Hark! Thy narcuations are to me.
(geez, there's something I haven't heard in a long time)
--
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
Well, I think the service and support alternative is greatly exaggerated--but a lot of software developers in the country are working on "in-house" software. The estimates I've seen are about 70% of developers are employed working on "products" that never leave the company, because they're for internal use.
Also, programs that address "vertical markets" are also largely immune to competition from free software; the more limited the market is, the less space there is for competitors, free or otherwise. Few hackers have a compelling interest in making a GPL construction management program or a records management system tailored to the needs of hospitals (and for that matter, few hospitals would move their systems to a non-trusted vendor; "if patients die, you have the source code to see what went wrong" just doesn't carry a lot of weight). Even a "semi-vertical market" program like Nota Bene, the word processor for academics built around XyWrite, isn't likely to face serious competition from free software companies: if they're getting people to pay $400 for a word processor now (and they are), price obviously isn't the overriding concern for their customers.
The only real question is the future for shrink-wrap software of the kind that you pick up at Best Buy or CompUSA (and the same kinds of software when delivered electronically, of course), and by proxy, the future for software developers working on such projects. If a typical office application meets the goal of being user-friendly and having an effective, self-contained help system, it doesn't need people to supply service and support for it (particularly if the Internet community can supply free help through newsgroups, websites and mailing lists); the profit potential lies in the software itself, future upgrades and potential "add-on" modules.
There is no Linux market for desktop applications.
I must disagree. No is such a strong word. If you had said "little" I would agree, but not "no". There is a good market for desktop applications on Linux, it just is not a main stream market. I can't stand using Windows. I feel so constrained, that anything I want to do, I need to go out and buy a package, or down load some closed source utility I have no idea how it works.
But there are many like me that prefer to work in Linux/FreeBSD/Unix, and we do need desktop applications that we can use to communicate with the rest of the world. Unfortunately, right now the main document "protocol" is proprietary. I'm hoping that something like XML can be used to change the format of documents that are passed to and from individuals.
But don't say that there is NO market. I have bought/paid for desktop applications for Linux (Corel WP and Star Office: before it was bought by Sun). I prefer to work with LaTeX, but most people I need to send documents to, don't know any other format but ".doc". I know I have a need for desktop applications, so if it is only me, I am still a market. Just a very small one!
Steven Rostedt
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
I wonder who Applix might sue for giving away a product that they sell for a profit. Is Sun in jeopardy because they're giving away StarOffice? Should the government take action to protect Applix from open source competition?
;-)
I don't really think it will happen. Even still, it makes you wonder how much litigation we want to invite from the federal government.
Can you imagine an open source developer being sued by the government for putting a company like Applix out of business?
Note: I know this violates the long standing tradition that anything that might disagree with the government's lawsuit against M$ is a troll but I think its worth considering. Karma be damned
I've been trying to open powerpoint files with staroffice for nearly three years now.
.)
:) ]
Usually what I try to open is the lecture slides that come with textbooks. It's certainly much better than it used to be, but it still loses or misplaces some of the information (but a least it no longer spits out a page-and-a-half length document that doesn't fit on the slide . .
Come to think of it, word documents tend to come out aline to long--the last line of one page forms ends up on the next page, and my last three installations have produced spreadsheets that can't generate charts . . .
Staroffice is a lousy product. The question isn't whether or not it's any good, but whether it's worse than ms office. [and I'm not willing to fight windows long enough to find out
hawk
Yeh, but it's abusive to run ed when you don't have a slow teletype or other printing terminal . . .
Besides, ed is for those that can't handle toggle switches and patch cords.
Damn newbies, demanding keyboards . . .
:)
hawk
I've seen things that I've moderated then pop up with something different than I marked--sometimes moderating the right direction, othertimes the wrong direction.
hawk
I hope that Allison read some of these threads. You can't sell software to this community blind. Not when there's free stuff that can be used. It's a pretty simple equation:
Free w/ 'flaws' > Pay For unseen.
Staroffice is a memory monster. If ApplixWare was more efficient, and supported similar features, I'd gladly pay the $80-100 (?) bucks for it.
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
What's New in Applixware 5.0 Applixware
- GTK interface
- Dockable toolbars
- Combo Boxes
- Tooltips
- GTK Themes
- Applixware Office Theme Selection
- New Applixware Iconbar
- Open, Save, Save As, Import and Export from ONE dialog box
- Graphical Font Installer
- Drag and Drop support from compatible file managers
- Improved import and export filters
Applixware Words- On-The-Fly Spell Checking
- Vertical Rulers
- Ruler Guides
- Updated horizontal rulers
Applixware Spreadsheets- Autosum
- Autoformat
- Spreadsheet templates
- Autofill
- HTML Export Wizard
Applixware DataSee Giant Penguins Naked! The Linux Pimp
You are sort of correct, but software such as games, and applications targeted to bigger enterprise can be closed source and do certainly well in Linux. I have thought of writing commerical software for linux, but then the thought that someone will start an open source version the next day puts me off, and I don't bother.
------ Curiosity killed the cat. {satisfaction brought it back | it didn't die ignorant | lack of it is killing mankind
That's good. I hadn't thought of it before, but apparently the mere threat of free software keeps the free-to-proprietary ratio high on Linux, which is of course what we all want.
--
I thought there was something awfully fishy when they offered our LUG a big discount on Applix software. Trying to dump the excess inventory before announcing that there would be no new versions, I guess. Too bad.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Funny, I bought Applixware 5.0 for FreeBSD. Perhaps you misunderstand VistaSource (formerly Applixware)'s commitment to all variants of UNIX?
If someone is offering a quality Linux office suite for $99, don't screw them over by releasing a free alternative. If you use the free alternative, don't whine when the commercial package goes away.
If fewer people buy software, there will be fewer software companies and fewer jobs for software engineers. That will drive wages for software engineers down. If you make your living by writing software, think about that when you have to decide between free software and a commercial package.
Oops. "Applix" is not the name of the company selling Applixware.
First off, the story was wrong, and the correction predated your post, which makes me go hmmm...
Anyway, your analogy is backwards. The Free software projects are the trees. They may grow better one year than another, but they rarely die... they are the stable base that the vines can grow on. Things like Linux, Apache, Free/Net/OpenBSD, Xfree, GTK, Glibc, GCC, and so many other things - things developed by GNU, by the BSD teams, and so many other groups and individuals that that contribute to the community that any attempt to name them all would take hours and still be sadly incomplete. The commercial apps only exist on the basis of this infrastructure. They can grow and flourish, or shrivel and die, but the community and the infrastructure lives and grows nonetheless.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
DOH! I've been using Applixware without a crash for 3 years. Maybe I should have upgraded to give some support . . .
Drat - I like Applixware a lot !
The only way to get someone to chose your software over a free alternative is to offer something that is not available, yet needed, and somehow prevent someone else from doing the same thing for free. This may be the one pitfall to the entire open source movement and any companies looking to make a profit off of it. IE: anything you produce, someone else will release for free and put you out of buisness. can you say Netscape?
Dirty Pirate Hooker
I have found that the proprietary office suites are generally better than the free ones. Word Perfect has had problems with being buggy, but is an excellent office suite. Applix is not as full-featured as Word Perfect, but is a very stable and solid offering.
Star Office is a good suite, but has a lot of rough edges that Applix doesn't havem such as the inability to change the color scheme of the suite, and poorer rendering of fonts as you type the document.
- Sam
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
Some of them are, some of them aren't. The ones that are maintained are often those with some corporate backing. Nothing is free, software costs developer time which is a limited resource.
If you want the Linux world to deterioate into a proprietary mass market wasteland,
This is an obvious straw man. you don't need to chase away all the application vendors to develop a free OS.
With the 5.0 release of Applixware, they converted everything over to GTK+. Unfortunately, it seemed to me to be a little less stable than previous versions. Also the spell checker interface was a bit weird to use for anyone who was used to the way Microsoft integrated it into Word. (i.e. Right click, see options, select.) Also I had a few random crashes which I attribute to GTK+ and pixmap themes.
I'm not sure Applix, or Vistasource, or Smartbeak or whatever really promoted Applixware as an office suite. They always seemed to get little mention in the press when compared to Star Office, Word Perfect Office, or even KOffice. I think they could have done a better job. I also think the whole "Vistasource" split off was rather confusing. Who am I buying my upgraded Applixware Office from? Is there an upgrade?
I'm sorry to see Applixware get out of the desktop arena, as they've got a product that is really good. However, I wouldn't say this is the death knell of commercial software on Linux. Hell, we haven't even seen many commercial products for Linux. :)
I've been a longtime applix user. I've tried star office but IMHO I want an office suite that does office things, not re-implement windows95 in all it's bloated glory. S.O. was slow, had intensive system requirements, and was very prone to bugs and crashes. Applix more-or-less did what I expected it to. Although the open-source alternatives have been getting better they still lag behind most of the features available in applix. One place that applix was weak is the lag in MS-office import filters.. they always seemed to be a generation behind. Ah well, I should just spring for VMware personal and run windows in a window.
-- Greg
Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
Which means, no big corporations will get a lot of money out of Linux, but independent consultants will.
However, if I was a VALinux founder, I wouldn't worry much. If they sold their stock at $300 the first day, it doesn't matter if a year later it's going for less than $10. They are too busy spending it to worry.
That link up there to Applix is wrong -- applix.com has nothing about Applixware. It should be a link to Applixware.Com, or to the company site that you'll be redirected to: VistaSource.
This letter is in response to the article "Applix Gives Up on the Linux
8 46 4
Desktop" written by Robin Miller and posted on NewsForge on 11/28/00.
It is the belief of VistaSource, Inc. that some of the statements made
in this article are incorrect, and some of the quotations made by RJ
Grandpre were taken out of context. To correct some of the statements
made in this article, please note the following:
* VistaSource is not "throwing in the desktop towel." VistaSource will
still produce and sell its desktop product through traditional and
online retailers and through its own online store. VistaSource has also
committed to future releases of Anyware Desktop (formerly Applixware)
and will continue to provide the same quality product and level of
service to its existing customers.
* The real news is the change of focus from a company that focuses on
desktop applications to one that is forging the way server-centric and
web-based applications. This shift in focus was announced on August
15th, 2000 at Linux World in San Jose. For the complete release which
further describes this strategic shift, please visit:
http://www.vistasource.com//news/press/pr_96634
* Active development continues for BOTH Anyware Desktop (Applixware) and
the server version, Anyware Application Server. Both products are
recognized as integral components of the VistaSource product mix.
Thank you for your attention and promptness in correcting this matter.
Regards,
Allison Antalek
Marketing Communications
VistaSource, Inc.
Apllix always tried to sell their products the traditional boxed product way. But that system can never keep up with the speed of internet distributed, by the time their product hit the shelves, there was always a new update of Star Office, or Abisuite, or Koffice on the net. They never allowed you to "try before you buy" or evaluate their product over the net, So why would anyone buy their porduct if you can try out every other product first?
With a move that started with Adobe and Applix, all other companies that make linux word processing programs have bailed out. The last remaining two, emacs and vi, are expected to dissapear by 5:00pm EST. Ole' Pappy Torvalds, the creator of linux responded with, "What the hell?" Linux's arch nemesis, Microshaft, was unavailable for comment, but rumors are that they continue to work on their Linux word processor, WerDix.
Mas vale cholo, que mal acompañado.
I don't think this is the first closed-source software company that will fail on Linux. The fact is that mass-market proprietary software (with the possible exception of games) will never make it under Linux.
If there are enough users to support an Applix, Corel, or Microsoft Office style suite, then there are enough Open Source developers who will build one. Even without StarOffice, KDE and Gnome both have efforts that, although a few years away from matching the big boys feature for feature, are "good-enough" for most users today.
That doesn't mean there's no hope at all for proprietary stuff under Linux, but stick to vertical market applications (where you're not going to find an active developer community) or applications were you can sell support. Office apps just won't cut it.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
The lesson I take from this is that free software kills the software-sales and software-license business models. Service and technical support are still valuable in a free-software environment.
The other lesson I take from this is that Linux and its free-software adjuncts are getting into the quality/capability region where they can take on Microsoft for possession of the desktop. If Microsoft Office starts losing that battle, it's all over for the Wintel monopoly.
M
/ \ ASCII ribbon against e-mail
\ / in HTML and M$ proprietary formats.
X
/ \
Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
Unfortunately, I don't have anything left over from that experience. However, I still marvel at their overwhelming contribution to our class.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Point in case here. If you are going to charge exorbient amounts of money for something then it had better be worth it. Apparetnly Free Office Suites have gotten to the point that they so the same job as over-priced suites. Now if they made something revolutionary they would be able to make money easily. This is just keeping corporations from getting comfortable with selling the same OLD thing in a shinier box.
Is the competition rough, or maybe are there just not all that many users who use Linux as a desktop OS and want a full-featured but not MS-compatible Office suite?
If you want us to look for a trend, can you show us a chart of the number of applications added to/withdrawn from the Linux market? Or 26 charts, so we can see the trends according to the first letter of each company?
I've used (and paid for) all the pay-for office suites under Linux, and the only one that's still on my hard disk is Applix. I would be very sorry to have to do without it. It is lightweight, small footprint, fast, solid, reliable, intuitive. By comparison, StarOffice is bloated, clumsy, slow, fragile and balky; the only advantage that SO has is that it is better at reading MicroSoft files. I can't really think of an advantage that WordPerfect has, but there must be one.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
I've been using Applix Office at home, and I like it a lot. But moving files from home to work, where they have Windows, is tough.
It's a wonder that they existed this long without full compatibility with Office...not that Office is the best, but it's definitely the most common.
Actually, it's toughest in the other direction (work to home) because I have to remember to save files in earlier file formats; as usual, I am the weakest link in this chain. What I would really love is one of those programs that seem to grow up around the Mac ecosphere to translate PC files into other files -- even just to plain ol' text would be good if it would help me read it.
That said, one major flaw for me is the non-portability of spreadsheets with certain types of formulas in them between Applix's spreadsheet program and Excel.
ApplixWare has always been fairly popular among the FreeBSD crowd (and others, I'm sure, but that's where I've heard the most about it), simply because it bothered to support other {U,Li}n[iu]xen than Linux/x86. It's also significantly less bloated than, say, StarOffice.
It'd be nice if they let their current version float out there for free (Free is probably too much to hope for), but I guess that's unlikely as that would compete with Anyware Office.
I'm pretty sure I've seen Anyware Office, actually, a while ago. With some significant feature addition, it would be usable, and as long as they don't fall victim to creeping featuritis, it should run fairly quickly on newer JVMs. I have to wonder about how successful it'll be, especially since it's hard to even remember *snicker* Corel's offering...
TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.