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PDA Keyboards Compared
The Tech-Report is currently running a feature that compares two of the leading PDA keyboards - the Targus Stowaway and the Landware GoType. I've seen a number of these used before, but haven't gotten one yet - anyone else found one that they really like?
Vile looks like a pretty cool program. However, I must admit that it took more than a little bit of courage to click on a link pointing to http://www.vile.cx/. Given the vile nature of a certian site which has a name in the Christmas Island TLD I was pretty concerned about clicking on a .cx site that actually has vile in the name. :)
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I don't want free as in beer. I just want free beer.
What about those personal organizers ? There are the Franklins, the Sharps, and what else ? Anybody play around with those cybikos ?
I'm thinking of building a prototype for a product, which will be a small organizer or two way pager like device with a key board and small 4 line screen. I know nothing about ergonomics, so I'd like to examine the best example.
Control-V for paste? Isn't that the page down shortcut?
I haven't seen the Stowaway, but a colleague of mine has a Go-Type, which he has let me play with. It's nice, but the big drawback for me is that is not rigid when extended, meaning you have to put it on a table to use it. Compare this with the nice extending keyboards in IBM Thinkpads. If the Go-Type were rigid enough to use on my lap I would certainly get one for my Palm IIIx.
I have and like the GoType!. Yeah, the keys are smaller than normal, but it isn't a problem for me. (I can see it being a problem for someone like my dad who has really big fingers). It works well, and I like the fact that it doesn't fold, as I can sit it on my bed or my lap or my couch.
:) A while back, office depot printed an error in their flyer, advertising the palm folding keyboard for $19.99. Well, they pulled the stock from the shelves and told customers that they were "out of stock" instead of honoring their printed price. Well, Best Buy happens to honor the printed price of their competitors, so I took it there. They were actually out of stock of the palm folding keyboard (the one in the add), so they gave me the discount on the GoType! instead.
I also got it for $20.
I'm happy with it. No, I don't carry it with me - I use it at home and on the plane to type long emails and do text editing.
wish
---
From the iMac Update: December 7, 2000
i li manjaro/
On a recent hike, twelve-year-old Nicole Wineland-Thompson kept a diary. That's not unusual.
Nicole kept her daily journal on her Blueberry iBook. That's not that unusual either.
This next part, however, is a bit out of the ordinary: Nicole's ten-day "hike" took her to the top of Africa. To the blustery peak of Mt. Kilimanjaro, to be exact, a chilly 19,340 feet above sea level. "I put the entire trip in the iBook each day,"she recalls.
What prompted Nicole's hike in Tanzania?Read "Climbing Kilimanjaro," a new story on our website:
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2000/11/k
Feh! Whatta twelve year olds know? Here's a case where I'd definitely be using the PDA+Stowaway. Imagine lugging a laptop up Kilimanjaro! No matter how much I may like Macs, I wouldn't lug an iBook up a mountain. Not even if it had LinuxPPC installed.
This is where Palm OS devices shine. Someone earlier said "Why not just get a laptop?". I'll tell you why. Two AAAs last a couple of weeks on a Palm device, and an extra set only weighs a few ounces, as opposed to a pound or two for laptop batteries.
Cheaper than ever... Since they weren't available previously, I don't see how they can be cheaper, so who's the moron?
But seriously, the cost of parts is not the only thing you pay for. The stowaway is actually $100, so if it really costs $42 in parts, the profit is $58. Now, in addition to the bits of plastic, springs, wires, etc, the company has to pay an engineer or two to figure out how to make it, it has to pay for a place for them to work, payroll taxes, and so on. It even has to pay interest on the money the company borrowed to pay the engineers/rent/etc, until the company can sell a few keyboards.
On top of that, the company has to pay for advertising to let you know about their keyboard, they have to send free samples to magazines and such, they have to pay accountants, secretaries, and janitors.
Of course, Targus/Think Outside doesn't get the whole $58. Office Depot et al gets some of it. They use it to print that weekly ad, rent store space, heat the store, pay clerks to take your money, and even pay for insurance in case you trip and fall and sue them.
And then there is a bit of profit.
So, if you think there is too much profit involved don't buy it.
If it doesn't offer you $100 worth of functionality, don't buy it.
If you need a keyboard that is easy to carry more than you need $100, then go ahead and buy it.
Stupid people will be persecuted to the fullest extent allowed by law.
At the time when I needed a keyboard for my Palmpilot Personal (512kb) the only choice around was the GoType. I've been using it for about 2 years now and am quite happy with it.
The keys are large enough for comfortable typing, they could use to be larger. It does not drain batteries excessively. I've cranked out some large amounts of text in relatively short times and haven't found myself cursing the size of the keys.
My only complaint is that: the driver I am currently using with Hackmaster will occasionally require me to power down and power back up for the keyboard to work (this only happens after a 'timeout' shutdown, not a manual shutdown). This problem is probably fixed with new driver versions though.
Try the handspring visor, it allows you to use both the modem and the keyboard at the same time. The modem goes into the add-on module slot at the top, and the keyboard is connected from the bottom of the Visor..Fun stuff.
The Happy Hacker keyboard is also available for your PDA, if you don't mind the extra size. For serious keyboard jockeys (or, if you use your Palm to telnet into a server and use Emacs), it might be another option.
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
GoType - keys stick, have to be hit dead on, kind of small, hack software has odd behavior re: power on, find the device.
The Palm Keyboard - the folding one - much better ergo, nice smooth key travel, folds up, must rest on a flat surface. BUT IT'S ALMOST A HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!
There is the HH cradle which allows you to connect an IBMPC keyboard - convenient if you drag the cradle around to offices with keyboards. Hard pressed to see the value of this.
Other 3rd party larger keyboards are around - they're just bigger, what's the point???
On screen keyboards are the way to go.
I have a GoType for my Palm3 and I find that the Stowaway (which I've used) is much more like the standard PC keyboard than the GoType.
As mentioned in the article, the keys on the GoType are a tad small to type comfortably. In addition, the keys don't have as much 'spring', and I find I have to keep an eye on the screen to make sure my typing has gone through.
For long documents, it's still quite a bit better than grafitti (which is convenient, but frustratingly inaccurate, given the way I'm used to writing).
It's not a statement of preference, but I have to say the stowaway has made a big difference to my life.
I'm a journalist, and travel extensively. While it's nice to have a ThinkPad with me, they are heavy, take enormous amounts of adaptors, rechargers and cables to work and are expensive to replace. It's a big hassle for email and text editing enough to write a thousand words a day.
Since the summer I've been using a visor and the stowaway, with a Xircom modem in the top and pEdit inside. The whole thing fits into my pocket, takes AAA batteries and if I lose any of the bits costs less than a hundred pounds to replace.
I can touch type on the Stowaway with no problems, and I now carry one less bag on planes. If you travel a lot, that alone makes a huge difference. We're even looking at kitting all our reporters with them. Why pay £1500 for a laptop that's only needed for text?
If only PalmOS came with a word count function as standard.
Isnt one point of having a PDA that you dont NEED a keyboard? I can see that these fold up nicely, but do i want to take it out, unfold it, plug it in, etc, just to type a quick memo to myself while on the bus? Not really. They may work if you keep your pda in the office for a while during the day, and then just take it with you for reference, but then there is no need to not use a normal keyboard...
I am !amused.
The only time I want to use a keyboard, however, is if I'm using the pilot as a terminal. Is it even possible to do both at once since the pilot uses the serial port for network (or dumb terminal) connection?
The stowaway keyboard, on the other hand, ends up providing full laptop-sized keys which alone was enough to make the decision for me.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Is it just me, or was there something wrong with the link? It critiqued the Stowaway just fine, but didn't go anywhee else, no 'next page' link, or anything to do with the GoType.
I'm probably just missing something...
Kevin Fox
Kevin Fox
The Palm keyboard really is the Stowaway. Targus sells the versions for Visors and wince machines, and Palm sells the version for the Palms
She's a graduate student, and wanted to be able to type up notes in class. She already had a Visor, and since she walks to school, she didn't want to lug around a laptop the size we could afford (smaller being more expensive). There's also the matter that nobody else uses a computer in class- she didn't want to be conspicuous hooking a big machine.
:-)
She's been using the Stowaway / Visor combination for a whole semester now, and it's been perfect, with two exceptions. First, it wasn't any use in her Greek class (nonalphabetical character set). Second, the cool-ass folding keyboard attracted much more attention for the first few weeks than a laptop would.
Even though the Stowaway feels sort of flimsy when unfolded, it seems quite durable when packed away (she carries it in the pocket of her backpack, which gets banged around a bit). Even with heavy use, it's holding up very well- no obvious wear.
It took me a few minutes with the thing to figure out how it got so skinny and still have decent key travel. The secret is that all of the keys are actually depressed when it's folded up. Very clever engineering indeed.
"This message is composed of 100% recycled electrons."
If the Newton's handwriting recognition works for you, then great. But one of the reasons the Newton didn't do so well is that for most people (such as me) the recognition was flaky at best. That's why when I owned a Newton I used Grafitti on it -- it was a software product for the Newton long before Palm organizers existed.
The Revo looked like it had a workable keyboard, but I've yet to see one in real life. The fact that they are hard to find is a big black mark against it in my book.
The HP 200LX has a "keyboard" that's even sorrier than any of the Wince clamshells were. If anyone can type on that I'd be truly impressed. I can easily write graffiti faster than I can thumb in information to the 200 LX. There's a reason that the tiny, crappy keyboard form factor has been abandoned by the vast majority of Handheld device manufacturers.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Fitaly. If you want to use your PDA as a laptop, it's not gonna work, but if you just want to be able to write down phone numbers, addresses, and so forth as people are telling them to you, this is the way to go. It's been reported on Slashdot before (too lazy to look up right now). The company homepage is here.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Next I tried the Happy Hacker Cradle. It worked well enough for what it did, save that even the quietest keyboard I could find for it was just too loud (as well as a bit bulky). I wrote an article about my experiences with it.
After I sold the Palm and cradle to a friend, I finally got my first Stowaway. I accidentally boogered up the latch on it on the first one I got, and had to send it in for an RMA, but the one I got since then works great! It's full-sized, portable, just the neatest little thing . . . and it was actually designed by a media major, like myself. I wrote an article about the Stowaway, too.
--
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Sure, stores have to make a profit somewhere, but come on! It doesn't take a moron to figure out that these things are cheaper than ever to manufacture!
Regarding quality control, the companies know if a shipment of cables are defective: one time, Belkin reported that an entire shipment of printer cables was soldered wrong. That shipment was promptly field-destroyed (cut the heads off of each end).
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I currently own a Palm IIIc and the standard palm portable keyboard. The portable keyboard's keys are slightly bigger than a laptop computer, and I have yet to find anyone who does not like typing on it.
No, you don't whip out the keyboard to type in an a name or address. A good use of it is, however, to write a long e-mail at lunch, or to take notes in class (or write a long e-mail in class).
The keyboard (when folded) is just slightly larger than the palm, and each easily fit in a pocket. Quite easier than lugging a laptop into class to take notes.
-=Lothsahn=-
If you're holding out for voice you're gonna have to wait for it to be acceptable to use it in public, too. It's bad enough with cell phones these days. If I ever get stuck next to someone on my redeye who insists on using his voice-enabled Palm XII while I'm trying to sleep, I'll listen just long enough to hear him dictate his password and then bitch-slap him unconscious.
---- Just another spud server.
Of course, to combine the HHC with a Palm V, you need yet another connector thingamabob, but hey, what price consumer geekdom?
/. seems /.'ed)
(Sorry if this gets posted twice,
The Stowaway is also sold for the Palm Pilot (as the Palm branded "Palm Portable Keyboard"). It radically changes the character of the Pilot.
As stock, the Pilot is a mobil data output device, an extension of the desktop computer used to display information (calendar, phone numbers, maps, etc). Yes, you can also use it for some data input, but it is not very well suited for the task.
With the keyboard, it is an excellent data input as well as output device. I use it to take notes and compose thoughts and messages all the time. It is far superior to a notebook as a text entry device, as a notebook is considerably larger, when both the palm and the keyboard can fit in my pants or jacket pockets.
The Palm and Keyboard (the keyboard is also available for Wince machines) radically transforms the nature of the PDA, and is definatly worth the $100 price tag.
Nicholas C Weaver
nweaver@cs.berkeley.edu
Test your net with Netalyzr
I have a Visor Deluxe & a Targus keyboard to match. I personally find a keyboard useful.
If you plan on doing onboard development with your palm (such as with Quartus Forth) a keyboard such as this is a good investment. It is also handy if you want to work on term papers on the go.
As for a keyboard being useful for the purely "Personal Organizer" type PDA, its probably not worth it. But for those who instead use their PDA as a "Palm Computer" with real data entry needs, a keyboard such as these may be a very valid investment.
So, it depends on your needs...
I have a Handspring Visor that I use for pretty much everything in my life.
I use three different ways of getting information into the PDA:
- Grafitti: The built-in text recognition software that recognizes individual characters written in a special area. I can get about 25 words per minute with this method.
- Fitaly Stamp: A little flexible sheet that sits in the Grafitti area that has little squares to represent letters. (See the picture in the link.) When you tap a letter, the PDA thinks that you wrote it. I can get about 40 wpm with this.
- The Stowaway keyboard (as mentioned in the article): This keyboard is a fold-up one. It folds up pretty darn small (small enough to fit in my back pocket) and is a full-sized keyboard when unfolded. I can get regular typing speeds (80 wpm or more) with this.
So, depending on what I'm doing at the time, I'll use one of the three. When I'm trying to keep eye contact with someone while writing or if it's too dark to see the Fitaly letters, I'll use Grafitti. Most of the time I use Fitaly. When I need to enter a lot of text, say, at a meeting where I want to type action items or take down a paragraph or more, I'll whip out the Stowaway and enter to my heart's content.The other place that the Stowaway is really useful is when I'm on travel and need to dial into the modem pool at work to log on and check email. There's no way that I'm gonna navigate a shell, mutt, and vile with a stylus!
So I would suggest to people to think about how they intend to use their PDA. If it's just for occasional text entry, you probably don't need a keyboard. But if you plan on putting lots of information into it, I would definitely recommend getting a keyboard.
Granted, it will take people a while to give up the tactile thrill of typing, and there will always be a need for keyboards (for those who can't or don't want to talk while they work), but I think that for PDAs and similar "portable" devices, it's the most natural choice for an input device.
Got Rhinos?
I recently bought the Targus Stowaway keyboard for my Handspring Visor. (That's the folding one.) I had tried the GoType, but its keys were a bit small and cramped for my taste, while the Stowaway was regular size with better key travel when unfolded. It will move if you try just putting it in your lap, and you by far get the best performance on a book, table, airline tray, etc., but it folds the "right" way so that it doesn't collapse on itself if you don't have it on something solid.
The other issue, however, is why on earth anyone would want one of these things. Even the Stowaway is too big folded up to carry comfortably in a normal pocket. A coat pocket or cargo pants pocket yes, but I refuse to plan my wardrobe around my PDA. If you have a laptop you probably carry that most places you would use a PDA keyboard, so when are these things any more than just geek toys?
Well, I don't have a laptop. I had notes I wanted to write, and Graffiti is only good for a quick note or phone number. I've heard there are some decent document editors out there that work quite well with an external keyboard, but I haven't used any. I don't use Palm email, but a keyboard would be nice there. The one thing the GoType has is an external USB port so that you could conceivably stick your PDA in the GoType and use it as a serial terminal for a rackmount server, portable datalogger, or some other such thing.
For me the Stowaway was a worthwhile purchase. I'll use it enough that I'll be glad I bought it, but it's certainly not necessary for most people yet.