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Red Hat Wins In US Army Contract For Linux Devices
zonker writes "This article at C|Net says the army is going to try an embedded version of Linux to use on portable vehicle diagnosis devices. Red Hat got the contract. Here is an article at Red Hat's site." Not a huge deal fiscally, but this is one of the areas where Linux is probably going to grow the most - hence companies like Lineo and others like them.
The Red Hats are coming! The Red Hats are coming!
If you're not wasted, the day is.
If you're not wasted, the day is.
their mortal enemy, the US Navy!
I'll drink to that!
What if I write parts of a GPL licensed code which is then used to bomb my people back to stone age?
As soon as you get medical equipment running Red Hat, some script kiddie with half a brain is going to make sure that some poor vet is going to also have to live with half a brain...
Friends don't let friends use multiple inheritance.
I dont particularly care for Redhat but the entire decision can be summed up in this paragraph:
``We've tried more traditional PC operating systems in the past for similar embedded appliances, but they were prone to instability, high power requirements, and heat dissipation problems'' said Steve May, Rymic president. ``Red Hat's Clinux provides us with an inherently stable solution that monitors vehicles' performances in real time; because Clinux is open source software, costly per-unit license fees are eliminated.''
To be honest it dosent matter that it's Redhat I'm just glad to see Linux get marketshare and more importantly mindshare.
Linux Security is good for businesses, but in the army it's different - their enemies have resources and will keep what they develop a secret, before deploying it once.
Could the army's actions be for funding reasons, rather than security reasons? I am British, so I am not very familiar with American politics, but I would have thought that under the Republicans the Army would have more money.
If someone could clear this up for me I'd be most obliged - I am not very technically literate.
KTB:Lover, Poet, Artiste, Aesthete, Programmer.
KTB:Lover, Poet, Artiste, Aesthete, Programmer.
There is no
I guess the first tricorders will run linux!
US military to deploy linux enthusiasts against hostile powers
WASHINGTON D.C. In a landmark victory for the renegade OS, the United States Army has changed its recruitment and training procedures in order to make military service more attractive to Linux Users.
"We're going all out to get as many of these penguin people into the ranks as we possibly can." Stated General Jack Ripper "These geeks truly are americas finest."
The military became interested in geek warriors after observing multiple flame wars on the popular web site slashdot.org. "We used to think that the Army Rangers were the meanest mothers on earth, then we watched KDE and Gnome users face off." Explained Gen. Ripper. "We then had an elite team of rangers engage in the discussion. When I saw those hardened troops break down in tears from the geek onslaught, I knew we had found the perfect source of violent maladjusted zealots."
Assimilating the new geek recruits required something of a change in the standard training regimen. Instead of boot camp, recruits are now put through reboot camp where they are forced to support mission critical applications on Windows98. This teaches them to hate. Recruits are then put through what is known as the 'burma road' drill - where they attempt to stay abreast of the most recent 2.3.x kernel using a 486sx/25 for compiles and a 1200 baud modem for downloads. After a few short weeks, the perfect killing machine is created. Geek troops are capable of untold attrocities in combat, including roasting prisoners over an overclocked celeron, installing MS Bob on enemy hardware and moderating down 'first posts.'
"Some governments have complained that these troops don't abide by the geneva convention." Admitted Gen. Ripper "But I say that the geneva convention is a closed, proprietary protocol funded by Microsoft - screw em."
--Shoeboy
Don't moderate me because I'm beautiful.
Unfortunately I haven't found anything mentioning hardware on RedHat' Embedded page or on the press release.
Considering all the excellent networking capabilities that Linux has, I'd be disappointed if I had to use outdated hardware.
And considering Linux needs at least 512kB of memory to run, I suppose we're considering a modern architecture.
I believe that if Linux is the correct choice for this application, then the hardware specs as well as the final product itself must be memorable.
Flavio
Nothing says the GPL means free as in beer code. The GPL just guarantees anyone you give a binary to, you have to give the source code to, if they ask. That's it, nothing more. Nothing stops them from redistributing it.. unless they don't wanna.
..don't panic
Segmentation Fault.
Payload dumped.
Look out below.
Isn't this the same thing that "The Pentagon Wars" movie was based on? Hopefully this won't give it a sequel. I can see it now. "We want it to run KDE and GNOME, also, can you serve up web pages? Also, we need Q3A to run on it."
doesn't the army know that the new embedded windows 2000 is much faster, more stable, and has a smaller footprint?
...it was a joke, but embedded windows 2000: now there's a scary idea.
-----
# cd /
This is my first slashpost, so I'll try to make it good. Reading the other comments, all you people have a lot of negative things to say about "Red Hat this, Red Hat that..," but, the fact remains that our country takes our military VERY seriously (too seriously, probabably, but that is neither here nor there...) Anyway, the fact that they're trusting the military to open source, and Linux in general, is a big boost for the movement. The army is stubborn as hell. Always has been, always will be. If even the ARMY has switched to Linux, what is everyone else waiting for? I just think it's more theoretical advertisement, and another testimonial to the strength of open source. Just think, if they had winME in tanks, they'd have to call time-out on the battle field to reboot when it crashed.
If you don't like it, fight me.
I have done a lot of work on rebuilding uClibc (the Clinux C library) the last 6 months or so to make it cross platform. Have I received even 1 stinking patch from our friends at Red Hat? I think not.
Joe deBlaquiere at Red Hat (who posts frequently on the mailing list and recently put together a nice howto on porting uClinux) is the only redhat person I have ever seen on the mailing list. Does writing a howto make it Red Hat's? I think not.
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
This gives 'I rewted j00' a whole new, and particularly scary meaning!!
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
The uClinux source lives on http://cvs.uclinux.org... Of course Red Hat won't tell you that, since Lineo runs uclinux.org and employs nearly all the uClinux developers.
-Erik -- --This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--
Actually, I think this is a big deal for RH. Maybe this contract isn't a lot of money, but any contract for the DoD looks pretty good on a company's books - they are very demanding in their specifications and getting the project right.
For a service-based company (which RH is really) it's very important to show you can satisfy demanding customers like this. I'm sure other companies who think Linux isn't useful or reliable in the real world will think twice when they hear the DoD is using it.
So, well done RedHat! Regardless of what anyone thinks of the moral issues, this is a very good indicator for OSS companies.
I run a Directory Listing for Embbeded Computer components such as PC104 devices and Single Board computers. It list manufacturers of these devices such as Lineo and even redhat's embedded business which is called wirespeed. Go check it out at
I interview with the Navy a few months back as a coop for their Naval Sea Systems Command.
The job was developing applications for Windows CE-based PDAs which the maintance crews would take onboard ships to log data on the ship's functions. The data is then entered into an Oracle database and served up using ColdFusion extensions on IIS.
In short, it was a lot of extremely (notoriously?) non-free (neither speech nor beer) software. (And the pay was shitty.)
Needless to say, it would be really cool if other branches of the armed forces followed the Army's lead here. If the above scenario was linux running on the handhelds, and linux, apache, perl, mysql running on the servers, the job would have been much more attractive. And plus, everyone would think the Navy was cool ;-)
Question: /. story awhile back about how the US Armed Forces were having trouble getting new IT workers. Would *you* work for the Army if you knew you could get your hands on these embedded linux devices, and promote OSS at the same time?
There was a
I think I would. For one thing, the job security would sure beat working for a dotcom...
-the wunderhorn
Karma: Bored. (Thinking about resurrecting the "Anyone else is an imposter" joke.)
I run a Directory Listing for Embbeded Computer
components such as PC104 devices and Single
Board computers. It list manufacturers of
these devices such as Lineo and even redhat's
embedded business which is called wirespeed.
Go check it out at
www.sbc-pc104.com
Is there a case for using closed-source here, from the point of view of security? After all, this is a question of national security; I think the rules might be a bit different. Now, I'm writing off-the-cuff, so feel free to shoot me down (so to speak).
The argument against "security through obscurity" is that when people gain experience cracking certain locks, the weaknesses become well known and it's in the locksmith's interest to learn about them. To this end, it makes sense to publicize problems so that the locksmiths can fix them, instead of leaving the knowledge only in the hands of crackers.
But military systems aren't really open to a great deal of attack in the first place. There's a lot of physical security (at least, there should be). As such, there's much less chance for weaknesses to become well known in the first place.
So, is it possible that "security through obscurity" actually works a little better in this case?
Would we want to be reading about our military's weaknesses on BugTraq? (Actually, I'm Canadian, so it doesn't directly affect me, but hey...)
Then again, it depends on how the software is used. If you have other kinds of physical and mechanical security to back it up, then software security might be almost irrelevant.
And also, the argument might be false because it's just a question of a difference in community. That is, if we replace "general public" with "international military community," then maybe the obscurity argument remains just as valid.
Hmmmm. I'm starting to argue against myself. I'll stop now, before I end up looking ten times more foolish than I look already.
--
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
LINUX can be argued to be _MORE_ secure than any M$ product simply because you can know what is there. While obscure, the security comes though being able to test and understand the entire OS vs a guess at what the latest cluster from M$ has in its millions of lines. I think that this is a good thing. I feel more comfortable knowing that the military is using programs they can follow line by line rather than Redmonds "trust me it works in all conditions approach" Dan
It looks like a lot of you aren't even reading the article before replying to this thread. These embedded devices are not sitting on a network, waiting to be cracked by some kiddie. Also, I don't see how anyone can assert that this sets some kind of precedence where GPL'd software might be used "unethically." These devices are small, portable things that are going to be used to help keep track of maintenance records for vehicles. The Army already has things like this, and they run Windows. Aircraft mechanics in the Army have been using tablet-style computers for years that contain electronic versions of manuals. Let's face it, the military is "going digital." Should they be using products developed and sold commercially? Or should they be using Open Source software where the code is freely distributable to anyone? There are clear arguments for both, but I would feel more comfortable if the military embraces Open Source instead of conintuing to use proprietary software.
darrell
"Hi, I'm Col. Jeff Sanders, United States Army, Retired."
"And I'm Col. Quan Li, People's Liberation Army, Retired."
"Our two nations may not agree on the important things, like respecting human rights,"
"Or not exploitating the working class,"
"But we both agree on one thing."
"Both the People's Republic of China,"
"And the United States Army,"
"Use Linux to power their operations."
"Linux is cheap, stable, and as flexible as it gets since the source code is available to anyone."
"Linux also works on older, less expensive hardware, and is the glorious product of the unalienated labor of thousands of volunteers."
"And it's under the GPL, which makes it free, as in Free Speech."
"Something which even the People's Republic of China can appreciate."
"When it benefits them."
"That is not in the script....."
"Don't tell me what's in the..."
"SO..try Linux today. Billions of Chinese can't be wrong."
"Try Linux, the Operating System that stands for Freedom and Quality."
The Free ODMG Project needs volunteers.
Finding God in a Dog
I assume that "OH_YES_INDEED" is supposed to be a boolean true. In that case your code should read:
:-)
#define OH_YES_INDEED 0
...
int microsoftsuxbadly = OH_YES_INDEED;
Just a minor nitpick.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
way to go redhat!, selling out to the corporate run goverment, i praise you.
---
``ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country did to you'' --kmfdm
-kaitos
Agreed! But IMHO much of RH's questionable reputation comes from RedFlag 7.0, which the military are not (fortunately) going to use. I'd expect the guys at RH are more careful with stability and security with this Clinux for embedded systems than that RF^H^H^HRH7.0.
--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
..Who is General Protection and why is he reading my hard drive?
This space for rent.
This is interesting in light of an article published on The Motley Fool on Monday. They predicted that Wind River would be the winner over Linux in the embedded systems market. Their reasons? Apparently, the nature of open source is one problem; another one they cited is the "lack of real-time capabilities"in Linux (and I thought these guys did their research!!!) MS is a loser from the get-go, apparently because it takes 18 months to fix anything.
Rack another one up for Linux!
Even if this works the Army will never use it . The Army has a system called STE/ICE which is a simple tester that can be used on all wheeled vechile and most tracked vechiles . The reason they dont use this is the cost each unit costs over 10,000 dollars. I wont be suprized when they (the Army) wont use this either. FTA
here
thanks, Renai
Digital Philosopher. Looking for work.
The us army changed its color from green to red >:)=
there are lots of ditros to choose from of course, but this was probably the best choice.
Of course they coudln't use SuSE because it's german.
Same goes for Corel being canadian which is a shame considering their distro is very simple.
Slackware has no corporate backing and there has no accountablitly factor. SO this really isn't an option.
Mandrake (in an effort to bring users the newest products) tends to use a lot of alpha and still in testing products which isn't the best for mission critical systems.
Caldera has had too many security problems.
I guess in the end they powerful red hat is probably the best choice. However, I wonder if solaris was considered at all. I would love to see sun competing against MS with he backing of the US army. Plus Solaris is american made, very secure and rather simple.
I like the idea, but unless the system can print out a 2404 form of similiar, it's not gonna fly, as maintence will demand the right paperwork :) Be even nicer if it can sign/date the form, hm, I do hope they've already considered this... a vehicle that does it's own paperwork would be a truly useful thing to have. Take it from a driver of such vehicles :)
bash: ispell: command not found
This sig left intentionally blank.
To Green Berret?
Or perhaps Tin Hat...
... they will say it was Seg's fault, and not General Protection's one ...
I think I remember reading in the Linux Journal about a big purchase agreement between Red Hat and the US Army, some time around 1996. I couldn't find any reference on Red Hat's site (I guess they don't archive that far back?). Or maybe i'm off my rocker -- that was after all near the end of my "crazy college years..."
In my opinion RHAT has a quality product and quality support. This foothold into the US Defense establishment could be very big for them.
It will evaluate to false, not true. Thus "Error!" will not print. I should hope that one would try 0 after that to see true, but it is not necessary for the code example as the point is to show that 1 is not true.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
That way the military will use a broken operating system to detect problems with their equipment.... Great Idea!