Slashdot Mirror
Princess Mononoke Released On DVD
Christopher Cashell writes: "The critically acclaimed Anime film by Hayao Miyazaki and Ghibli studios, Princess Mononoke, has been released on DVD. The DVD release was initially delayed due to the public outcry when it was discovered that the original Japanese dialogue wouldn't be included. In this case, the effort from people writing Miramax paid off, as this release does include Japanese language tracks. This movie was reviewed on Slashdot when released in theaters. More information on Princess Mononoke can also be found here."
and on AnimeFu (fwiw, that is Kurt The Pope & I's anime review site, check it out if you're curious). My copy hasn't arrived yet (Express.com fails me once again. When they stopped being DVDExpress, their UI went to poop, and now I have to wait weeks for titles.) but I hear they really did this disc up right; they've even got Gaimen's subtitles or Miyazaki's original script subtitles. I'm excited to see this disc. And hear Gillian Anderson again. I got to see the movie in an old local artsy theater. What a great movie.
But I seriously doubt the effectiveness of a boycott. If all the anime fans boycott the Mononoke DVD, will that block the DeCSS lawsuits? No, but it will probably convince Disney to import more Power Rangers next time instead of more Miyazaki-san.
Disney isn't a monolith; it's made up of various groups. The part of Disney that decided to import Mononoke and release it on DVD should be rewarded. I'm not happy with any part of Disney that sends money or lawyers to the MPAA to attack DeCSS, but it's hard to punish them by refusing to buy Mononoke on DVD.
If you would like to own this but you feel bad about supporting MPAA even indirectly, may I suggest that you send a contribution to the EFF when you buy a DVD. Feel free even to send a letter to Disney telling them you did this.
Princess Mononoke on DVD with a clean transfer and Japanese language and two English subtitles tracks? Yep, I'm gonna buy that.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
And another thing. When the BBC showed Akira, they did their own well-written subtitles. But when I got the subtitled video version several years later (not from the BBC), it was pandering to the US market with Big Dumb Words For Big Dumb People and completely ruined the film.
Does my bum look big in this?
I will never buy a DVD with CSS. If that means I'll never be able to watch another movie for the rest of my life, so be it.
Thanks, that's exactly the movie I was thinking of.
The mother dies of 3rd degree burns after their town is firebombed and the father is a casualty of war. There is a scene where they see the Hiroshima blast from afar, but they're not directly involved.
But yes, it's on the short list of Most Depressing Movies Ever
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Okay, here's a good demonstration of WHY we like Japanese soundtracks:
What's your favorite movie? Okay, now then, imaging that movie being completely rewritten... Still with me? Okay, now imagine all the voices being redone with completely different voices, often completely inappropriate for the characters in the film... Every single nuance of the previous acting is lost, certain feelings given by a scene are lost, the original good writing is lost in the editing room rewrites...
What's the difference? Okay, raise your hand if you've seen Akira... Anyone? Good... Ever see the original version, as well as the dubbed version? Most of the dialogue is changed, and in other cases, the voice acting (they should learn to emphasize on the ACTING part) is completely wrong...
How else do movies suffer? Watch any kung fu movie from the 1970s... There's one good example...
Another example: Imagine Darth Vader having his dialogue rewritten by the folks who write Barney, and the voicing performed by Pee Wee Herman...
"Luke, I'm your daddy! I think you need a hug, you have a boo-boo!"
Of course, the irony here is how many people here are into programming, coding, etc etc etc, they'll respect someone who spends months hacking and handwriting the code behind DeCSS, but spit on people who draw anime, or animation for that matter... This shit takes forever to do, people, even when you have a studio with 50 min wage earners drawing cel after cel after cel...
And no, Flash doesn't count...
Guess the trolls here value talent when it benefits them directly, but then again, brains aren't everything...
(and many of us have had access to the tapes traded, which had the original soundtrack with subtitles as well, so we'd know the difference)
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
I'd have to say that I can deny it. ;-)
The greatest Anime ever is actually another one by the guy who did Princess Mononoke, Hayao Miyazaki. It's called Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind.
Many of us consider Nausicaa to be Miyazaki's masterpiece. It's simply amazing. Check out nausicaa.net for more information on Nausicaa, and the rest of Miyazaki's films.
Topher
Don't buy it, don't go see their crap in theaters, don't watch their TV networks, don't give them your own money and time only to let it be used against you!
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
I somehow got my hands on a copy of the movie on Sunday, three days before the official release and have watched it twice so far, once with the English dub and once with the Japanese dialog and subtitles.
On the one hand, the literal English translation of the subtitled version is better than the spoken English version. It "sounds" more Japanese and is truer to the spirit of the film. The English dialog, tailored for a mainstream audience and to match the lip movements of the characters, seems hokey and forced in comparison.
On the other hand, if you are unfamiliar with the movie, reading subtitles interferes with viewing the great cinematography. The film is very pretty, and it's a shame to be reading when you should be enjoying the scenery.
Bottom line: the Japanese language version is much better, but first time viewers might want to view the English language version so they can follow the movie and see the stunning visuals more easily.
Also, for an excellent review of the film (from an animator), check out Don't Miss Miyazaki's Epic (contains some spoilers).
If you have South Park: Bigger, Longer, & Uncut on DVD, play it... Select "French" from your language menu... This is a PERFECT example of the evils of dubbing... The kids' voices don't even match (sounding instead like nasal Frenchmen trying to sound like kids, instead of pitch modulation being used to alter the voice)...
If you still can't figure it out, just listen to Asses of Fire's Unclefucker song, and get a good giggle...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
There's a lot of talk in this article about how buying a DVD is supporting the MPAA/DVD-CCA mess, and that as such you should boycott DVDs. I agree entirely with this sentiment, but not with the action taken. Don't let their stupidity take something you enjoy out of your life-- you can buy DVDs and still feel all warm and fuzzy by doing the following:
1. Make sure you've got the tools to do whatever you want (legally) with your DVDs. DeCSS, speed ripper, a region-free drive, etc...
2. Buy used DVDs whenever possible. Most movies I want to buy have been available for long enough that there are 10,000 copies of them on ebay for next-to-nothing. Used DVDs pay no additional "a$$hole tax" to the MPAA.
3. If you really want to get a new DVD (in my case, I ordered Mononoke in advance), make a matching donation to the EFF. Do this everytime. If the movie costs $25, send $25 to the EFF. This way, while the movie studio is making a bit of profit from the movie, the EFF is getting the full amount to use in their fight. (Thanks to the slashdot poster who suggested this many months ago-- I think it's an outstanding idea!!)
I may not be the most fluent speaker in the world, but I'm learning, and it is nice to be able to get a japanese-speaking movie that will play in my DVD player so I can get a little practice.
You are also rather rude for no discernable reason other than that you don't seem to like anime much. Not a problem-- there are a number of things I don't like as well.
My recommendation is to not buy anime. For the rest of us, though, having a choice is good. Do you like having a choice between operating systems? Me too. Choice bewteen types of movies? Same here. Choice as to what language I can watch them in? Apparently, you're not concerned-- but why shouldn't there be a choice for the Japanese speakers among us anyway?
Watashi-wa nihongo no gakuse desu, yo?
Is that Japanese for "bonus"?
"And like that
First of all, the movie industry makes the majority of their money off of after-theatre sales. (meaning videos, DVDs, and product tie-ins)
A pocket-change loss of less than $3 million isn't going to even touch them.
Secondly, the point was about taking a stand. It's simply a matter of taking a stand against DVDs with CSS, regional coding, and the MPAA all entrenched in them.
Of course, if you want to make a stand, you should refuse to buy the DVD, and then WRITE (on paper!) Disney & co., letting them know WHY you're not buying something they've done a very good job of. (and also that if they quit this stupidity, you'd support them)
Remember DIVX.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
I agree about original language being better. I always buy subtitled editions when available. Occasionally a good dub comes out. Armitage III Poly Matrix is good, I've seen several of the original Armitage videos in Japanese so I do have a basis for comparison. However, Ranma for example is at best an acceptable dub, and don't even get me started on how badly DIC fucked up Sailor Moon, even ignoring their most senseless censorship. Its also good sometimes to watch in a foreign language you don't understand w/o subtitles. A couple of my hentai are from Japan(VHS) and I've seen the vast majority of Sailor Moon, some of Ranma, some of Key the Metal Idol, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind(don't get me started on how badly they raped the manga- good manga shitty anime). You'd be surprised how much you understand. Its like you understand what they say without understanding any of the words. Add in a tiny knowledge of common pleasantries in that language and the series FAQ so you know whos who... even something you've never seen a version of in your native language can be cool.
You're going to stop watching movies, possibly for the rest of your life, to spite CSS. Not to spite the DVD format, but CSS.
In other words, you are letting CSS control your viewing habits. You are letting the DVD industry take away something from you that you love: watching movies.
The irony here is so thick, I'm practically choking on it. CSS is supposed to control viewing habits, and you are letting it work! If you really want to protest CSS, you will encourage your friends to crack it. You will lobby Congress and the Senate to overturn CSS-friendly legislation. You will make copies of DVD's, encode them as 3ivx, and write them to CDROM's.
But quit watching DVD movies? Let them control my viewing habits? Why? Why take away something I love to do? Why cut my nose to spite my face?
"And like that
Yes. There should have been a red decal on the outer plastic that mentioned the Japanese audio track. Miramax (Disney) was originally going to release the movie without it, so the covers may have already been printed.
It also mentioned something called a "Featurette"
It's one of those little 10 minute (approx.) promotional space fillers you sometimes see on HBO and the like. There are clips of interviews with assorted voice actors and a little bit of background info.
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i've talked with a few people who have seen the japanese version (import), but have not seen the US version (it didn't come to any theaters around my area). they've talked about the fact that since this is a Disney release (not Miramax), then it might be edited for content. my friends mention one scene that involves a sword, blood, and a disembodied head.
so, to anyone who has seen both versions, is the US release the same? or watered down for the kiddies (well, as watered down as PG-13 gets anyways)?
You're perfectly free to not buy the DVD, but think about it. Never in my life have I seen a big corporation listen to its fans like this before... sure, they might have thought they were gonna lose money if they didn't listen, but they went against their business instincts to not give the customer what they want. I believe that deserves some merit.
Second, it looks like they actually did a good job on this. Companies tend to like to crap out on Anime DVD jobs; pretty much the only decent Anime you can get is from companies that specialize in Anime. Also, Mononoke Hime is a dang good movie. The fact that they even brought it to America in the first place is worth of credit.
So, while you have some good reasons to buy the move, I have some good reasons to buy the movie. As a longtime Final Fantasy and RPG fan, I appreciate it when a company finally listens to their customers (HOW many times were we promised FFV?! >_<)
Evil? Maybe. Monopolistic? Possibly. But my "purchacing vote" goes for listening to us when we complained, even if that isn't "the Slashdot way".
Mainly because Japanese voice actors can actually act. The Japanese version of Mononoke was performed by some of the best voice actors in the industry. The title character in the English version was performed by someone who had never voice-acted before. I could hear the difference, and I can't even understand the Japanese tracks.
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Darn, maybe I shouldn't have bought at Best Buy.
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A group of kids are playing a new sport they just invented. They are proud of the game for its innovation and its depth, they know it is revolutionary. They have been playing and enjoying it for some time when another child walks catiously up to the group.
"Can I play?" He asks the group, smelling some popularity to be gained. He isn't interested in developing the game further or teaching more kids to play it for the sake of the game; no, he is interested in it because he thinks he can become popular by playing it. So by extending the game he can become even more popular. The group knows this, but realize that not everyone is interested in the game just for the game, so they let him play.
"Sure" One kids says, and the group agrees. They teach him the rules and how to play and soon they are all playing.
This happens for a bit until the game is huge and still growing. The originators of the game are estatic, when one of the non-originators gets hurt saying "I don't like how this game is played, I'm changing the rules"
"No!" The originators protest, but the complaintant obtains a adult supervisor.
"Now kids, if people get hurt you shouldn't play the game like that; here, change the rules to this" The adult says, wagging their finger.
The originators are saddened and protest in vain, "But its our game, if they don't like it, they don't have to play!"
The adult says "You have to listen to me!"
The originators are perplexed and ask why.
The adult responds "Because... you do!"
So trends like this continue, the game being changed by new comers who really have no right to change the game. And the complaintants changed the rules, and became popular, and they lived happily ever after...
So children, does this remind you of any current situation? Yes, you in the back... Yes! that's right, it reminds me of the internet, DVD technology, MP3 tech., etc. too.
That is how I percieve things, it is full of holes and isn't really a complete thought, and of course I could be wrong. But I can't understand how the Disney and other groups give themselves the right to change the rules! If you're getting ripped off or whatever, then don't play the game.
just my opinion,
minus
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minusthink [Code poet or super hero? (you decide)]
"when life gets complicated, I like to take a nap in a tree and wait for dinner" - Hobbes.
Hey, you don't know me. It's all about the law. In fact, I just moved across the country to gain residency in California for the express purpose of applying to law school (much easier to get into the *excellent* law schools at Berkeley and UCLA as a resident), specifically because this shit pisses me off. I've written more letters than I can remember to my representatives and senators, going back to when the DMCA was still Orrin Hatch's baby and not yet law of the land.
The struggle is not futile - it just has to be taken to the people. I know Disney doesn't miss my money alone, but I can't attack them with one hand and feed them with the other (if that makes sense).
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Miramax is owned by Disney, and is used to release stuff that would sully the Disney name. Kinda like Hollywood Records; serves the same purpose for Disney for music.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
If you like the more pastel, gentle anime style of Mononoke, check out Totoro, by the same director. it's a childrens movie, but the art is amazing. Has a nice story, too.
The capsule for those who don't wish to click through: great DVD, great features (which other anime translators could learn from), great movie.
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Actually, one of the the major reasons I liked Mononoke is that it wasn't just Fern Gully with lots of blood and gore attached... if you'll notice, the movie didn't say "Forest Good, Humans Bad". Lady Eboshi wasn't a villian; the Forest God was more of a villian than she was... <SPOILER>the real villain is that guy in the hecka-cool geta sandals.</SPOILER>
So, being a former "nature freak" in Elementary school, then coming to my senses later and realizing that hardcore, Earth First-style environmentalism is a crock of crap (we'll be fine as long as we make a good effort to conserve stuff) - I voted for Republicans and Libertarians on my first ballot last month - I can give this movie two "balanced thumbs up". The movie doesn't say either humans OR nature is evil, they just get caught in a pointless, stupid war.
Liberal, Conservative, Libertarian, or Autoritarian... well, all of those except Authoritarian, we can all agree that fighting wars for no reason is a Bad Thing(TM). That, really, is the lesson of Princess Mononoke.
I generally like anything by Miyazaki, but I need to point out several things about this disc. (First one to buy it on release day at the local Borders)
Just because the Mouse did this release does not mean that they slaughtered this movie. I couldn't be happier with the video quality, which is one of the best transfers I've seen for an anime. All the colors stay at their right levels, including all of Miyazaki's breath taking forest scenery.
Both audio tracks came off well, even though I'll personally only be watching this in Japanese w/ English subtitles, hey, it has both captions and good literal translation subtitles!
Go out and buy it today. You won't regret it, even if you aren't an anime fan.
Maybe that says something about bodybuilders, or, at least, the bodybuilders in question.
Now if you're talking rape, you're talking what the American dubbers did when they turned it into Warriors of the Wind. That's why it's taken this long for any Miyazaki stuff to make it over here at all.
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Express shipped me my Mononoke DVDs on the 18th, so I got them on the 20th. At just under $20 each, counting shipping and the $5 coupon I used. I'm happy with 'em.
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Don't let the cover throw you; this is no Fern Gully.
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
I seem to recall hearing that Akihiro Miwa (Moro) is actually a reknowned character actor whose stock-in-trade is characters of questionable gender.
Yôji Matsuda (Ashitaka) was, among others, Asbel in Nausicaa, and in fact IMDB lists his first credit as being in 1974.
Yuriko Ishida (San) has been working since 1987, when she voiced a character in MADOX-01.
Most of the others have credits going back at least several years, and some into the 1960s or 50s. Nothing I've ever heard of, but at least it shows they've had plenty of work in their native land.
Well, if you can call playing the title character in Nausicaa, Clarice in Castle of Cagliostro, Tomomi and Mei's mother in Totoro, Ginrei in Giant Robo, and characters in various other well-known anime including Iczer One, Urusei Yatsura, and Ruroni Kenshin "a bunch of minor roles." I wouldn't. Well, they certainly seem to be frequently employed voice actors, at least. No arguments there. Well, I think think the quality level of the Japanese version is a matter of personal opinion. Since I don't actually speak Japanese, I don't know if I can judge that well. But it did use an experienced cast.Indeed there is--and that reason is that the Japanese seem to have an obsession with the English language; they think it's "cool" (or "kewl," as the case might be) to use it anywhere they can--even if it doesn't always make a lot of sense.
This is also why English dubs of films like Macross: Love, Do You Remember and Megazone 23 Part II were actually commisioned by the Japanese. I myself have a bootleg VHS copy of the Megazone, with Japanese subtitles all along the bottom.
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
in which the kids and their mom have to flee from their firebombed house (in Utsunomiya, I think, near Osaka) to the countryside? I watched it in Japan years ago and would love to see it again, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. The visuals were exquisite.
sulli
RTFJ.
Why is Star Wars on DVD any more (or less) relevant than Mononoke on DVD, or a review on The Emperor's Groove, or a review on Extreme Programming?
So if you want a vote... Me! I care!
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
I haven't gotten my hands personally on the DVD (though I did see the movie in the theaters), but I plan too very soon. However, I have talked to two of my friends that have it and they say it is excellent. One of them commented "that dvd is the new reference for how anime dvds should be made" and he's a rabid anime fan so I'm inclined to go along with that.
Actually, in most anime, the film actually is animated before the voices are recorded--just the opposite of how it is in the west. The Japanese don't have as much attachment to lipsynch. I don't know if Mononoke was done that way or not, but I do know that the animals' speech wasn't terribly lipsynched at all in either language. :)
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
I think that a lot of the people who are boycotting are doing it just so they have an excuse to make a lot of noise and act all deprived, and rant at people who aren't. i.e., "suffering for their art." And other than that boycott, they aren't doing a damned thing to try and fight it.
There are more constructive ways. Use them.
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
The general public does want DVDs. Twelve million, maybe thirteen or fourteen million, have already sold. It shows no signs of slowing down. Boycotts just aren't gonna do it.
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Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Crouching Tiger was great! I live in L.A., where it came out last Friday, and I saw it that night. It had great fights and an actual plot with actual acting. Michelle Yeoh was really good in it, I thought. And it had the coolest fight scenes I've ever seen.
Switch the . and the @ to email me.
I think a major part of it is related to the mood/setting desired. Having the Japanese audio helps get that anime "feel" for many, in a similar way that various visual and audio styles in American movies set the mood, though somewhat different. For many, watching anime is more of an experience than just about whatching a good story well done. The Japanese audio helps with that. And most anime fans know enough Japanese (a small handful of words) to match the audio to the subtitle, but couldn't possibly follow without the subtitle. And besides, many of the english dubs suck, though Mononoke is supposedly fairly good (haven't seen it).
I first saw the feature in the theater when it was out in limited release earlier this year. I was awed and impressed by the complex story and the depth and richness of the beautiful animation.
Miyazaki deserves much praise for his unique artistic vision. Here's a guy who can tell and visualize fantastic stories and entertain kids and grownups both without pandering or patronizing. I'm not really a big fan of anime in general, but you absolutely don't need to be, to appreciate this beautiful movie, and several others by the same director. His comic books are equally expressive and intelligent.
I had never heard the japanese language version, but I didn't like the English dubbed voices. They seemed inappropriate. Billy Bob Thornton and the voice of San were both completely wrong for the movie. I'm glad that Miramax included the original japanese language track on this DVD, even if I don't yet understand a word they're saying - that's what the subtitles are for. :) (There's naturally also the English dub track on the disc.)
The proper way to enjoy a movie like the film maker intended is to hear the voices of the original actors. You get appropriate inflections of the voices, you get lipsync, and you give the screen actors the dignity of not having half their performance erased and dubbed over by anonymous local actors.
Remember the scene from European Vacation with the Griswalds in Paris, where they watch an american movie on TV dubbed to French? That's how I feel about dubbing in general.
My English and German is pretty decent for a non-native speaker of either language, and I picked up both initially by watching movies in those languages, with subtitles. The more I watched as I grew up, the more I learned. Kind of like language lessons and entertainment at the same time. :)
I'm very thankful that it is not customary in my country to dub movies. It seems awfully emberrassing to hear the lines of well known screen actors spoken by nobodies with totally wrong voices.
The most important point about choosing sub over dub, is that once you begin to understand the language of the movie, perhaps thanks to the subtitles, you also 'get' the words spoken unfiltered by the translator's subjective interpretation or clumsy attempts at converting humor and untranslatable cultural references to your own language.
The DVD format allows the inclusion of multiple language, video and subtitle tracks, so at this point there's really no excuse to release a foreign language film to an U.S. audience with only the dubbed version included, when you can let the viewer choose which version to watch.
As for the subtitles, there's two English tracks to choose from - a literal translation from the spoken Japanese, and Neil Gaiman's translation of the screenplay. They're not so subtly different, since Gaiman had to fit words in that meant the same, but could be spoken in English in the same time and rhythm of the faster multisyllabic Japanese. Sometimes meaning was lost in that translation.
The literal japanese track makes the most sense even if it's kind of stiff. It's nice that they provided both tracks .. it is unfortunately still not universal standard practice among DVD makers to provide an English language subtitle track on all movies - it's really helpful to the hearing impaired to have the subtitle track going on the screen, even if you speak the language and can hear most of the dialog. Whenever there's a word you missed, you can just read the subtitles. And sometimes for whatever reason you might want to watch a movie with the sound off and just go by the subtitles. The flexibility of DVD in this regard is great.
The 5.1 digital surround sound track has identical mix on the Japanese and English versions, and it sounds GREAT. The surround effects used to great effect in the forest scenes, are scary-realistic. Even on my modest system the sense of being in the middle of the forest with things brushing through the undergrowth, was very powerful. There's mesmerizing moments of deep silence followed by subtle sound effects accenting the fluid, immersive screen action.
The picture on the disc is of nice quality, great color, super sharp detail and no digital compression artifacts to see, even in dark scenes. The widescreen presentation is anamorphic, i.e. the full vertical NTSC resolution, all 550 lines or so, are used to contain the widescreen image on 16:9 TVs.
Other than these amenities, Miramax didn't spend too much time and money on this release. Simple static menus, for what they're worth, and no extras except for the US theatrical trailer and interviews with the voice actors of the English dubbed version. It's a little bit insulting that they only thought to provide these interviews as if Billy Bob Thornton as gravely miscasted voice actor is any kind of authority on this Miyazaki masterpiece. I would much rather know about the film makers and how the movie was made, stills and special effects and storyboards and so on. But there's nothing like that on the disc.
I rank the movie among my 10 favourites, but the Miramax DVD is nothing more than mediocre; about on par with the disappointing Blade Runner DVD.
*sigh* I know, I know, don't feed the trolls...
Moro, the big bad mother Wolf; But her voice was mangled by a vocoder or some similar device.
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All the info on the Voiceovers, and staff can be found here: http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/mh/credits.html Gillian Anderson plays Moro the Wolf. She's easily recognizable, even behind the reverb effects.
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.