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New MPEG 4-Based Open Source Codec

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the closer-and-closer-to-streaming-DVD dept.

Jestyr writes: "Let me inform you about our new MPEG-4-based codec called 3IVX. You probably heard of DivX ;-) as a movie compression format. And indeed it's great. But we (the whole 3ivx.com team... want to go a bit further. Our goal is to optimize compression so that the file size is smaller, of a higher quality and fully streamable. Moreover the codec will be supported on all platforms (Windows, Macintosh, BeOS, *nix (inlcuding Linux), Amiga ...). To accomplish this the code of the player will become an open source."" I'll believe it when its running on my desktop, but I'd love to see the world standardize on a high-quality video format that is open source. Damn Sorenson.

14 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Open source scam... don't think so by thing12 · · Score: 4

    The term 'codec' is short for 'coder/decoder'. So for them to describe their product as a codec, which they do, it means the encoding portion of the software will be open sourced as well.

  2. Interesting by Foogle · · Score: 4

    I've had mixed results from using the various binary hack MPEG4 codecs available. The best MPEG4 I've found so far (and I've tried a number) has been Microsoft's official Windows Media 7 MPEG4 format. It's truly excellent. The ISO standard implementation doesn't hold a candle to it... I hope these guy's have done some serious optimizations.

    1. Re:Interesting by gleam · · Score: 4

      Good lord, have you looked anywhere in the past few months? XMPS supports DivX. XMMS supports DivX through two separate plugins. Xtheater and lamp both play DivX. It's not a "theoretically", it's a "does".

      There are very few problems with DivX support in linux. The windows dll method works quite nicely, and performance is just fine on my system.

      Also, DivX *has* been successfully reverse-engineered. A few weeks (months?) ago, it was ported to Macintosh by a group without access to the source. It's not a particularly difficult task, since the method used by the codec is very simple.

      In any case, if you check the XMPS website (at least last time I checked) you can even see a screenshot of the software playing the trailer from "The Matrix". Unconfirmed? Sheeeeeeesh.

      Regards,
      gleam

      --
      this .sig is not a .sig.
  3. projects that really are free by pixel+fairy · · Score: 4
    free as in no crap about patents, nda, etc so theres no chance of another sorensen happening.

    Xiphophorus

    and

    Fiasco!

  4. Not quite there yet by SethD · · Score: 5

    The 3ivx codec/player has a lot of potential, but if you look closely, there's not much going for it yet.

    First of all, it requires QuickTime. Not only that, but the player really isn't anything but a quicktime plugin. That right there is enough of a problem to make me shy of it.

    Ok, now. Another problem is this. The encoder isn't even released yet (that I know of??). What good is the player if there isn't an encoder. Until this is released what good does it do us except let us "ooh" and "ahh" about what it could become.

    Performance: All I've heard about 3ivx is how poor the performance is, unless you've got a P-III with about an 800mhz CPU. So much for all of us who aren't making 75 grand a year and have to stick with the same computer for a little while.

    Look what else is out there: Right now the standard is Divx ;-). It would take some pushing around to change the standard, but I could see this happening...except that we've got MS Video 8 coming, Divx Duex, and who knows what else out there that just has a lot more potential.

    My conclusion: It has potential, but it's gonna take some kicking and screaming to make everybody happy with this one...Good luck!

    (the comments contained in this posting are simply my own opinions)

  5. Open Source, I don't think so by davidu · · Score: 5

    Ok, lets see here

    1. What we want is a REAL open source codec. We don't want an open source player, API, or "framework" -- we want a true MPEG-4 open source codec.

    2. The 3ivx website has released a closed source codec that integrates into quicktime but from what they have released so far, it doesn't compete with Windows Media Format or Sorenson AT ALL. I sure hope that they will release something of decent quality soon.

    3. Of all the groups working on a nice MPEG-4 codec, we have seen many die, fizzle, or simply lie. OpenCodex.com is pretty much off the face of the planet and now their website is just some virtual hosting site. 3ivx has said they have a supperior product, and that it will be open source, so far both have been false. That leaves it to ProjectMayo -- the group started by the creator of DivX. They haven't released anything yet but they sure seem to be the most professional. Perhaps we can appeal to them to become open source.

    No matter what happens, the community is ready for a REAL MPEG-4 codec that does not just have some open player, it needs to be fully open so that it can be ported to all OS's, optimized, and hacked to be even better than a small group of developers could imagine.

    just my $.02,

    -Davidu

    --

    # Hack the planet, it's important.
  6. Some facts and sense by Fross · · Score: 4

    Geez, there's a lot of hot air and FUD going on here at the moment, so here's a few facts. Most of these can be gleaned from just looking through their website.

    - 3ivX is/will be a codec for encoding audio and video, based on MPEG-4. Hopefully it will be better than most other MPEG-4 codecs out there, the player, at least, will be open source.
    - it is still VERY much in development! all the stuff out there on 3ivx.com is *test*. it is certainly not ready for public scrutiny or evaluation. Why this got posted to /. (or accepted) i dont know, as it's certainly nowhere near ready for release.
    - to quote from their site:

    As explained in the previous report, we would like to remind you that the code contains absolutely no optimization. Nothing is assumed about the hardware - and this is to facilitate the ports to other platforms.

    ...emphasis their own. The purpose is to get this product 100% MPEG-4 compatible and stable, and then to speed it up.
    - In terms of multiplatformability, 3ivx runs under Quicktime, but also runs under XAnim. So now you know.
    - One of the performance targets of 3ivx is to get fast encoding, as well as decoding. So far, it has encoded up to almost 3 times as fast as the Sorenson encoder. And this is still in development, with no optimisations.
    - i dont know what planet people are on who are saying the codec is poor quality. Screenshots on the 3ivx site show it positively kicking Sorenson's ass at the same bitrates.
    - the support page lists all sorts of other technology bits going into 3ivx, so check it out.

    So there you have it. It's a free, multiplatform open source and hopefully high quality audio/video codec. It looks to be good, especially if it can be better than Div X ;-) (which in terms of piracy is the format of choice, which says a lot about its quality), and beats waiting around for MS to port WMP to Linux. Ha!

    Though given everyone whining about the lack of a good codec for Linux for the past year or two, I'm surprised why everyone has suddenly attacked it without doing some research beyond reading the first line of the article. Get involved. :)

    Fross

  7. Re:maybe you should read again by thing12 · · Score: 4

    Yup you're right - on this page I see in more detail that the encoder will be free but not open sourced. Damn damn. My bad.

  8. Open source scam... by SClitheroe · · Score: 5

    What's the value of an open source decoder, without a similarly open sourced encoder? I checked the website, and can't find any mention of the encoder and its source code.

    This company just wants unpaid help to port their player around in the hopes of gaining market share...

    1. Re:Open source scam... by Foogle · · Score: 4
      It's not quite as high as he was saying, but it's high enough:
      • Almost every video game.
      • A large number of pieces of hardware.
      • A decent, stable office suite.
      • Fonts that don't look like complete ass.
      • Professional-quality graphics programs (Photoshop and Illustrator).
      • DVD players.

      There are probably others, as well, but that's all I can think of right now. And for each item on that list there is limited support under Linux. For example, I won't deny that KOffice has serious potential... If it didn't crash every two minutes. I'm sorry, but I'm sticking with Win2k. It's at least as stable as Linux and, unlike Linux, the applications are there.
  9. Oxford explains it by mcice · · Score: 5

    So much hype, so little news.

    First, there is only a 3ivx decoder which in fact
    is a Quicktime 4 plugin. The de-facto standard
    these days is a AVI-encoding enabled (i.e.patched)
    version of Microsoft's MPEG4 V3 DirectShow filter
    and that DS code alone is worth three months of
    writing and debugging. But then, to make a codec
    you need an encoder as well and this is also still
    missing. But that is not the most difficult part.

    Microsoft has spent a huge amount of work on
    improvements for the original, specified MPEG4V1
    written-down-on-paper standard for film encoding.
    Which means they already have quite an edge
    because if you look at the output of their V1 and
    their V3 codecs, you will notice how much better
    V3 deals with low (800-- kbit/s) bitrates. These
    movies of course are ~512 Pixels (and up) in X
    resolution, for 1.85:1 you see 224 pixels in Y
    direction, pirated movies have around ~640x288
    pixels in case you never seen one. Compare that
    to the unplayable 12.5 fps stamp-sized demos on
    3ivx' webpage, there's a difference isn't it.

    As for Windows Media Encoder 8, while their AAC
    implementation now cuts off at 16khz and still
    stinks at anything above 64kbit/s compared to
    MP3@128 (wme7 cuts off at 20 but lacks sound
    transparency just like wme8), the new WME8
    codec is now slightly better than DiVX ;-) even.
    The visible-macroblock plague from V3 is very
    well hidden now without smearing the picture,
    which is quite a stunt at 500 kbit.

    Thinking three years ahead, if you should be able
    to once buy&download movies in MPEG4, you can
    certain that MS will be supplying the codec,
    because (once again) piracy has bought MS a huge
    marketshare. Some russian chap even ported the
    codec to Linux by emulating DirectShow DLL calls
    (ouch). Combine this with a P3-Nvidia-5.1-Dolby
    Digital-whizzbang X-Box and you can get a glimpse
    what your kids may want for x-mas 2002 B).

    Merry Christmas
    from Germany.

  10. You can't be sure ANYTHING is patent free by youngsd · · Score: 4

    The way patents work, you can't be sure that any project is free of patents. Unfortunately, most of the people starting these "patent free" projects think that patents are like copyrights and trade secrets -- if you don't copy, you're alright. Patents don't work that way.

    A safe rule of thumb would be to assume that anything is likely covered by an issued or pending patent filed by someone -- hopefull it is someone who isn't a vulture. Even when standards organizations make their members agree to license their patents on reasonable terms, they have no control over the companies who are not members. The number of software patents are growing so quickly you can never be sure a particular concept is not patented (even if you could look through all of the hundreds of thousands of issued software patents, you have no insight at all into the hundreds of thousands that have been in the application phase for a few years and are almost ready to issue).

    It is an unfortunate state of affairs, but no one can claim to know that a paticular project is patent-free.

    -Steve

    --
    Democracy is a poor substitute for liberty.
  11. Mediaplayer8 codec demos by Wag · · Score: 5

    For those of you who want to see some truly amazing advancements in Microsoft's utilization of the Mpeg4 codec, go check out this page:

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/en /c ompare/video.asp

    If you have a high bandwidth connection the 750k stream looks quite impressive. Almost DVD quality. The audio demo is quite good as well, sounding much better than mp3 encoding at the same data rate.

    There's a beta version of the encoder available from MS if anyone wants to fool around with it.

  12. another mirror... by phutureboy · · Score: 4

    another mirror here

    --